"Citing no evidence" doesn't mean he has no evidence. What happens next?
Trump offered no citations nor did he point to any credible news report to back up his accusation, but he may have been referring to commentary on Breitbart and conservative talk radio suggesting that Obama and his administration used “police state” tactics last fall to monitor the Trump team. The Breitbart story, published Friday, has been circulating among Trump's senior staff, according to a White House official who described it as a useful catalogue of the Obama administration's activities.What's "credible news" these days? Maybe Trump is fighting fire with fire. The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory? There was a conspiracy to plant a conspiracy, etc. etc.
But Trump is accusing Obama of wiretapping his New York office. That's a very specific charge. Presumably Trump has high-level security within his homestead. Maybe something was detected. Here are Trump's tweets this morning:
1. "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"
2. "Is it legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!"
3. "I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"
4. "How low has President Obama gone to tapp* my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
#3 feels vaguely like a threat to get a criminal investigation going against Obama. This is a big move by the art-of-the-deal master. Perhaps the goal is to get his attackers to stand down.
____________________
*"Tapp" would be a good name for an app.
ADDED: Meade is saying "You over-educated professional class elites, you don't understand TrumpTweet." Most important, he says, is that Trump put "wires tapped" and "wire tapping" in quotes and that misspelling "tapp" could have been intentional. Is it some figure of speech? Is there a special way of speaking within Twitter that the grownups don't understand?
Posts
365 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 365 of 365Never interfered.
The constitutional law expert thought this was a good idea? The experts surrounding him thought this was a good idea?
Was he out of the country when Watergate happened?
Maybe someone who has a grasp, however minute, of America and American history should be elected. Not someone who thinks The Constitution is full of "negative rights."
Bwaaaaaaaaaa
"I'm not in high dungeon. I'm lmao."
"Dudgeon". LMAO.
This obtuseness includes National "Part of the Problem" Review and much of the dimwit infested Hot Air, and also a lot of conservative-leaning mainstream media which, being media first, tends to circle the wagons around other media outlets (when is the last time you ever saw one paper or network doing investigative journalism against another paper or network, other than attacks against Fox?).
Meanwhile, Bill Kristol isn't obtuse, he's clearly a collaborator.
I get the 20-30- early 40-somethings don't get it, but geez, the Gen-Xers of a certain age and the boomers....lived thru this.
This is your brain.
This is your brain on drugs.
Or irrational hate.
It is that simple.
😁
Oh what a shame, Trump looked so Presidential there after his speech.... for about five minutes.
I get the feeling someone big is going down soon. We will have to wait and see which side they belong to.
Obama's denial is a bit odd.
It seems to portend that DoJ may have been wiretapping Trimp.
But if so, a denial like that only begs the question: what DoJ person would ever dare to do such a thing without gaining some kind of Ok from the higher ups, and that personal risk issue and Ned for remediation would carry the check for higher approval all the way up to the AG. And beyond. Would Lynch risk her entire career on a wiretap without making sure she had cover from thebEH?
Trump not Trimp. iPhone spell check sucks.
Funny how Drago just disappeared from this thread, lol.
This is all not about unreason or hysteria, but money and power. There are no madmen behind any of this. The conductors of the orchestra or the directors of the drama are quite sane.
The audience, however, much of it, is indeed prone to hysteria, as are a few of the musicians and actors.
From Powerline:
"If the Obama administration abused the FISA process to wiretap a political opponent, it is a scandal of the first order–the worst political scandal of my lifetime, easily. And the press has known about it and covered it up? Unbelievable."
It's not at all unbelievable to me.
Would Lynch risk her entire career on a wiretap without making sure she had cover from thebEH?
Would Lynch risk her career and law license on a (supposed to be) secret meeting with the influential spouse of a person being investigated for multiple violations of law, where said spouse had a high interest in the investigation being terminated and no other valid reason for meeting with the attorney general just as she was deciding whether or not to indict?
Two primary choices:
The government has tapped his phones pursuant to a court order finding probable cause to believe that he is involved in illegal conduct, or
He has no evidence, further reinforcing his image as a nut job.
I vote for door number 1.
Unknown: "Funny how Drago just disappeared from this thread, lol."
Hmmmmmmm. Another "spot on" observation by Unknown.
Just like all the rest of hers.
"Ben Rhodes, a former top national security aide to Mr. Obama, said in a Twitter message directed at Mr. Trump on Saturday that “no president can order a wiretap” and added, “Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you."
It has been widely reported that there is a federal investigation, which began during the 2016 presidential campaign, into links between Trump associates and the Russians.
The New York Times reported in January that among the associates whose links to Russia are being scrutinized are Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s onetime campaign chairman; Carter Page, a businessman and foreign policy adviser to the campaign; and Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative who has said he was in touch with WikiLeaks before it released a trove of Democratic National Committee emails last summer."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/04/us/politics/trump-obama-tap-phones.html?_r=0
And, among other things, Johnson had Goldwater bugged, with listening devices, not just having the FBI tap his phones (and, appatently, many Republican campaign officials). And besides that had the CIA burglarize Republican offices, ad well as planting spies in their offices.
Long break Drago, glad to see you didn't slink off.
"Blogger Unknown said...
Has there been another terrorist attack in Sweden or Bowling Green this weekend? Hahahahaha!
3/4/17, 1:08 PM"
I don;t think the dozens of young women raped by "refugees" or the 52 Swedish citizens of Malmo targetted by refugees hand grenades they can easily obtain, and on and on, find it very amusing. One article below but there are dozens on the social problems as a result fo their open door refugee policy. I'm glad someone finds systemic rapes of women and murder of civilians to be a source amusement. I do not.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/20/trump-may-have-been-unclear-but-sweden-experiencing-migrant-crime-wave.html
I also do not think the targets of the two terrorists arrested and convicted in Bowling Green, Ky, found it all that amusing either. We were fortunate that we caught them before they executed their terror plans. I'm glad someone finds terror plots a source of amusement. I do not.
1 primary observation: Steve Uhr is not exactly a rocket scientist when it comes to identifying primary choices.
About any FISA warrant -- While it might be proper to adopt a presumption that any judge is above board, that is not an irrefutable presumption. Certainly in the Article III courts we can see many, many, many of the people in robes are highly partisan.
EDH suggests: From a strategic messaging standpoint, Trump should do two things:
1.) Connect any Obama dirty tricks against him as an extension of the DNC dirty tricks against Bernie Sanders during the Democratic primaries.
2.) Point out that any attempt by Russia to influence the election outcome was directed at marginalizing Hillary in favor of the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democrats.
If there were any really corrupt goings-on this past election year, it was clearly the DNC's annihilation of Bernie Sanders.
From a technical standpoint, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to "tap" Trump's apartment in his building. You don't have to tap the actual wires (almost certainly digital, anyway). Just aim a good microphone at his window.
But if he really does do his best work on the toilet, that might not work. The flushing sounds would drown out the juicy stuff.
This is starting to look like Watergate, but with several important distinctions:
1. Trump fights back, whereas Nixon panicked. If Nixon had burned his own tapes, there is no Watergate.
2. The GOP controls Congress. So they can slow-walk any investigations.
3. The internet neutralizes the messaging advantages the WaPost/NY Times once had.
To me, Watergate was pretty much a big nothingburger that spiraled out of control. Nixon won 49 states in 1972, opened China, ended The Draft and Vietnam War. But he got complacent in his 2nd Term and allowed the Dems to exact political revenge.
Here, politically, Trump must give cover to Ryan to help keep the GOP majority in the House. If he does so, he will avoid impeachment.
Let the wild rumpus begin!
Yawn - Trump gets around to reading Bannon's publication concerning the content of the Mark Levin Show this week and the history Levin discusses, includes the FISA metadata request from the FBI involving Trump campaign folks' involvement with Russia. The request does not name Trump - only his campaign and an earlier request looking to find a computer in Trump Tower connected to two Russian Banks proved to be not true.
Nothing in the reports originating on November 7 at heatstreet.com and The Guardian suggest that Obama had anything to do with the requests. Whatever NSA metadata was being obtained was approved by the FISA Court on October 15.
Powerline has a pretty good report (with good links) on what these tweets are about.
Gadfly,
The FBI would not do anything concerning a presidential candidate without the highest level of approval.
"Would Lynch risk her career and law license on a (supposed to be) secret meeting with the influential spouse of a person being investigated for multiple violations of law, where said spouse had a high interest in the investigation being terminated and no other valid reason for meeting with the attorney general just as she was deciding whether or not to indict?"
Hubris and arrogance. Who in the Obama administration was ever held accountable for anything? She knew she'd get away with it.
Hillary and Barack should share a cell--I have no problem with that. Barack needs to be in a women's federal prison anyway. It's the least we can do for him. Pelosi, Schumer, Claire McCaskill, Podesta and the rest can be in genpop at their appropriate Supermax.
The FBI would not do anything concerning a presidential candidate without the highest level of approval.
COULD not, according to what we were told during the Hillary investigation. Not interfering in a political race was stated as their Prime Directive.
As I recall there was a running gun battle a few blocks from Trump Tower between agents of the NSA and agents of the CIA starting outside of a building dedicated to the Federal Eavesdropping Industry?
Anyone want to guess which side in the Obama/Soros/Clinton Coup d'Etat won that one?
The CNN guys are all mad at Trump for not having proof of the aleegations. Now that's funny.
Meanwhile Sick Obama is calling on his #1 Consiglieri, Axelrod, to call Trump names on Twitter. The only statement by Obama's gang is that Obama never ordered The Justice Dept to do it. It must have done the tapping as a Rogue part of the Obama Gang.
Warrants to tap into someone's phones in the course of a federal investigation would be sought by the Department of Justice, which conducts investigations independent of the White House and the president.
Why is Grump worried about a DOJ investigation?
"Trump is off his meds. I'm starting to think he's a flat tire."
I thought you were a reasonable commenter. Sorry to be wrong.
The idea that the NSA/CIA/FBI is a giant left wing conspiracy is going to controversial on the left.
I don't think it all is. My daughter is an FBI agent with almost 20 years. She is a lefty like many lawyers. I asked her about the election last September (I normally don't talk politics with my three lefty children) and she said she didn't like Trump but there was no way she would vote for Hillary. She didn't say who but I don't think it was Bernie, who another daughter liked. She would have said so.
I think there is a lot of institutional anger about Hillary and her misuse of security rules.
I think Comey was facing an agent revolt if he did not say something about Hillary last summer. He assumed she would win and is a careerist. Maybe he is now building bridges to Trump.
There are Obama moles deep in the intelligence agencies. Maybe they are like Valerie Plame who was a lefty drone in Langley. Her husband was employed by the Saudis who hire a lot of retired State and CIA folks.
Admiral Mike Rogers told Trump about the continued wire tap after the FBI had concluded there was nothing to surveil.
Andy McCarthy has most of the story.
Department of Justice, which conducts investigations independent of the White House and the president.
Do you really think DoJ was "independent of the White House" after Lynch and Clinton's meeting ?
"How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
So I guess there will not be a "6 living POTUS" photo anytime soon.
What could force them together if inauguration didn't? Funeral for any of 6 FLOTUS?
The tweet-timing is good. Tomorrow morning, all of the Sunday political shows will talk about this stuff.
The GOP controls Congress. So they can slow-walk any investigations.
This is crucial but McCain is probably trying to hold his vote over Trump's head. Trump is not Bush.
I don't see the GOP House going on a suicide mission with no upside for them. Even the RINOs.
This is going to fun to watch. The commie-pinko lefties (Unknown-the Bad, Chuck-a-luck, NBC, CBS, MSLSD, ESPN, WAPO, NYT, ABC, NFL Commissioner's office) still think Trump is going to play by their rules. What a laugh.
If they didn't notice it during the campaign, Trump will go for the juggler - every time.
What could force them together if inauguration didn't?
This has never happened, at least since 1861. A retiring president normally leaves the successor alone, at least for a year or two even Truman and Carter did although there was bad blood.
I can't think of a president in our history like Obama. If Aaron Burr had made it, maybe. That's as close as I can come.
*"Tapp" would be a good name for an app.
The "T"rump "APP". Dunno what it might do - maybe un-correct your spelling?
tappen
n. 1. An obstruction, or indigestible mass, found in the intestine of bears and other animals during hibernation.
The ones that have thrived in the Democratic Party Machine are the worst kind of humans. We should have been returning daily to 8 years ago, to review the backing up of BigBlueGovtPayoff trucks to the White House. All the actions by obama, pelosi, reid & rahm in those first cynical 90 days 8 years ago is what Birthed the Tea Party revolution, and what causes us to stand here today, all things made new.
Obama just might have to be Brought Down. Perp-Walked. dangerous cunt of a man and his lobotomized army of followers.
My husband and I have budgeted for buying ourselves each a gun. But I think first I need to acquire something already. A good knife.
this is all related to this post, I hope you can see that. [What the mystics know is that at the core of existence is a Most high good. So I telegraph out from my heart to all my g*ds that the pull of most high good for each one of us is expressed, Namo Buddaya! calling all buddhas! pull us out and up in understanding. SatChitAnanda, surprise us with reality, true insight, wisdom, each and every one of us. Boddhi light gently let us rest in ever-renewing call of our own Good. Adonai, beyond all naming, let us know and be anchored in thee, feel the earth, and act from most perfect Order and Peace. Son of G*d, your deep well of power sustain us all in our spiritual (HUMAN) evolution. Cuidalos! cada uno! dios mio! godspeed america, amen]
The CIA-NSA New York gunbattle from January was reported by Russian media and widely repeated by the usual suspects (not the MSM).
Its curious that no independent reporter touched it.
Sadly the state of the US media is such that this sort of thing doesn't at least raise curiosity, and followup, even if it is "fake news".
That is a very banana-republic thing, if true.
Michael K, yes everybody in DOJ and CIA etc is just against Trump; we have no law and order is this country-- it is all rigged. And yes wire taps and NSA checking our internet correspondence is a continual thing in America.
The best part of Barack the Great setting all these precedents, is now Trump is in charge.
First, Trump went all in on the pen and the phone thingy (some would call them EO's).
Now Trump is in charge all things intelligence (some might call them the wire tapping community). If I was an important democrat, I would cease using all things electronic.
There are two running arguments about the MSM v. Trump:
1) The MSM hates Trump and is trying to destroy him!
2) The MSM makes money on Trump news and loves to trump it up.
These arguments conflict.
As far as a President of the USA goes, we are all still bias confirming that Obama is a type in the long line of George Washington and other American Patriots who were fighting European Empires influence here.
But Obama is pro a EU/UN run World Government over the entire earth Empire guy. He was seeking the end of the USA as an independent Nation State. He HATES the USA's very existence. Weren't you watching at all the last 8 years?
Roesch,
You dont actually have law and order in this country, not at the highest levels. The law is simply too complex and obscure. Its all a matter of judgement calls, which come down to balances of power.
And if I were any sort of business or political player I wouldnt be blase about communication security.
The CIA-NSA New York gunbattle from January
Did the NSA spy on the CIA?
The divisions are clearly not limited to the People (and our [unPlanned] Posterity).
I love that @realDonaldTrump tweets as he does.
And all of those people going up in Trump Tower as they built their teams? They did not / could not / would not hide.
It's what the best businessmen know they have to do.
this has quickly become the Most Transparent Presidency Ever. i love it.
Michael K, yes everybody in DOJ and CIA etc is just against Trump;
Now you are just silly. I'm sorry I took you seriously for a moment.
You are in Inga territory.
Patience, Grasshopper. The second rise takes time.
About any FISA warrant -- While it might be proper to adopt a presumption that any judge is above board, that is not an irrefutable presumption.
Wouldn't it also be illegal for the FBI to use FISA to try and build a CRIMINAL case? They lied about a national security concern to get dirt on a candidate.
Nothing in the reports originating on November 7 at heatstreet.com and The Guardian suggest that Obama had anything to do with the requests
gadfly, it is HIS administration. Obama is absolutely responsible. You think some rogue people, after about 8 years with Obama, just decided to do this? Why would his admin then seek to distribute the info and cut clearance as low as possible quickly?
Yeah, who would think a Chicago pol would be a sleazeball?
In a statement, Kevin Lewis, a spokesperson for Obama, rejected Trump's assertion. "A cardinal rule of the Obama Administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice," he said.
"As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false," he added.
Uh, ha ha. A-ha ha.
This is just for starters.
roesch/voltaire: "Warrants to tap into someone's phones in the course of a federal investigation would be sought by the Department of Justice, which conducts investigations independent of the White House and the president"
LOL
Dude, the obama administration couldn't even conduct an investigation independent of PREVIOUS administrations...
See Lynch/Clinton and Tarmac-Love.
This is very carefull worded:
"Obama spokesman Kevin Lewis said in a statement Saturday. "As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. "
So I guess they could have gotten an order to wiretap the communications of a foreigner who they knew would communicate with Trump?
Just imagine the outrage in the MSM if Obama had been subjected to a FISA-approved wire tap in the 2008 campaign. Does anyone think claims that "Bush didn't persoanlly order it" would calm the shitstorm?
Because that's where he belongs: What irony if Obama winds up in Guantanamo Bay.
Mr. Majestyk: "Just imagine the outrage in the MSM if Obama had been subjected to a FISA-approved wire tap in the 2008 campaign. Does anyone think claims that "Bush didn't persoanlly order it" would calm the shitstorm?"
It's a pointless exercise to identify democrat hypocrisy.
They and their media/"lifelong republican" allies already know they are being hypocritical. They don't care. It's only about power and whatever "tool" might be useful today.
The question is: do we finally have an "R" President who is prepared to fight back using the same tools and rhetoric as the left uses? It appears the answer is "yes".
Sorry, but an order to tap the phones of the rival party's nominee requires the president to sign off. If not, his DOJ has gone rogue and he is derelict in his duty.
Imagine a turtle, say, at the resolute desk in the White House. A good turtle, an honest one that would try, like doctors, first to do no harm.
Would that turtle use the DOJ and the IRS to investigate his enemies-- perhaps the alligators?
I bet, right at this moment, somewhere in a fed govt office, Obama operatives are busy shredding the evidence of this FISA warrant. Because that is what Cheryl Mills and her pals did to the State Dept Benghazi documents.
It's not "getting cozy" like with a pornstarlet; it's about doing business; that game of cards where the stakes are that vulgar substance--money. In two words: oil and money.
The Russians are Big Boys now; they wear Big Boy Pants; and play with The Big Boys toys.
We need to respect that. It's simple; it's about business and new markets. As the EU begins to implode, the Old Order Left will slowly implode. That leaves a noticeable hole in the World Economy.
There are certain corners of the world at large where the previous administration performed less than sterling in living up to their agreements, bargains, and treaties. There will be a lot of change and the Russians want to be part of the deal.
The previous administration promoted another faction to this situation with little incentive to change the status quo that has a lot to do with that vulgar thing, money.
IMHO, this entire affair is about clashing business interests as well as a lot of political brass.
Here's a link to a Forbes article about the many Democratic lobbyist ties to Russia. As per usual, leftists accuse others of what they are actually doing themselves:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#304b79ec3991
"The busy Podesta Group also represented Uranium One, a uranium company acquired by the Russian government which received approval from Hillary Clinton’s State Department to mine for uranium in the U.S. and gave Russia twenty percent control of US uranium. The New York Times reported Uranium One’s chairman, Frank Guistra, made significant donations to the Clinton Foundation, and Bill Clinton was paid $500,000 for one speech from a Russian investment bank that has “links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.”
Department of Justice, which conducts investigations independent of the White House and the president,
In the Era of Obama?!?!? You can't be that moronic, roesch, ergo you are merely despicable. If you're typical of Dumbocrats everywhere, then we dodged a serious bullet when your side lost in the last election.
You are part of the problem. The grown-ups are here to fix the problem. Now get the fuck out of their way you turd-eating son of a bitch.
Real American said, "Sorry, but an order to tap the phones of the rival party's nominee requires the president to sign off."
Probably. But who cares who signed? He was the POTUS. HE SIGNED.
Are we gonna now have Democrats saying the President is not the executive?
Haven't we been told repeatedly not to take Trump literally? When he says "Obama had my 'wires tapped'" shouldn't we be looking for an allegorical meaning?
David Baker said...
Because that's where he belongs: What irony if Obama winds up in Guantanamo Bay."
It won't happen, but what a wonderful idea. ValJar could have the cell next to his.
I thought you were a reasonable commenter. Sorry to be wrong.
I'm pretty reasonable. But sometimes I just get pissed at the D.C. swamp.
I mean, drain the swamp is a good thing. But don't get stuck, and then sucked-in.
Where I am coming from, is that politics is a game. To me, a President has to delegate that game, or the swamp sucks you in. He has to be the agent of change. He can't look under the cover.
If the President is looking under the cover, he is not going to see the crows shitting on his head.
Remember, this whole sordid affair is predicated on the assertion that the Russians stole the election from Hillary.
Never lose sight of that-
Now, they have everyone arguing over if AG Sessions should resign over a run-of-the-mill Senatorial meeting with a Russian ambassador, taking us down the rabbit hole.
They hope the cumulative effect of all these manufactured "links" to Russia force Trump out of office without anyone stopping to say "Hey, none of this adds up to stealing an election, so why are we here?"
Obama is pro a EU/UN run World Government over the entire earth Empire guy
Obama is really more of a petty tyrant Hugo Chavez kind of guy. And, yes, he also has a whiff of Aaron Burr in him. You really think that the left let's little things like elections get in the way of their seizing and wielding power?
About whether Obama "signed off" on this or that --
Come on, you all know how this works. The Boss does not need to expressly say, "Do X," for him to want X to be done. It's all understood. Tacit collusion is no less worse than overt conspiracy.
What did Obama know... and when did he know it?
Sounds like a special prosecutor is needed.
And like Hillary, I wonder where all the emails are cause we all know cause as Mr. Universe said, "you can't stop the signal" (from the movie Serenity.)
Gonna be fun to watch!
buwaya: This is all not about unreason or hysteria, but money and power. There are no madmen behind any of this. The conductors of the orchestra or the directors of the drama are quite sane.
I dunno, buways. I'm really starting to wonder about some of our PTBs.
If they were sane, how did they let things get so....
Wait a minute, maybe you're right. "Sane" is not the same things as "wise".
Mark-
Yes, but nobody sits around and wonders whether or not to bug a political opponents phone in case they won an election. They didn't come up with this while taking a shower one morning.
Eventually, they're gonna push things too far -- like slaughtering a bunch of innocent watermelons. And then, watch out.
Rybolovlev once purchased a $95 million home from Trump in a deal that appears to have been brokered by Trump's secretary of commerce, Wilbur Ross, in order to shelter assets from Rybolovlev's wife during a nasty divorce. Rybolovlev is also a shareholder in the Bank of Cyprus, where Ross was a vice president until his confirmation by the US Senate. The bank specializes in catering to Russian ‘flight capital--
start your conspiracy engines and fly along on both sides now.
Although Ben Rhodes has admitted to lying to the media to achieve political goals, the MSM, apparently, still considers him to be a go-to source on the wiretap topic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/magazine/the-aspiring-novelist-who-became-obamas-foreign-policy-guru.html?_r=0
Quoting Althouse:
I'm missing the sense that I'm getting the normal news. It seems unfair and shoddy not to cover the President the way you'd cover any President. What looks like an effort to stigmatize Trump as not normal has — to my eyes — made the media abnormal.
BTW, DoJ wiretaps of AP journalists led to a lengthy jail term for at least one victim:
Federal investigators said they were able to identify the man, Donald Sachtleben, a former bomb technician, as a suspect in the leak case only after secretly obtaining A.P. reporters’ phone logs, a move that set off an uproar among journalists and members of Congress of both parties when it was disclosed in May.
Mr. Sachtleben, 55, of Carmel, Ind., who was an F.B.I. agent from 1983 until 2008 and was later hired as a contractor, has agreed to serve 43 months in prison for the leak, the Justice Department said. His case is the eighth leak-related prosecution under the Obama administration. Only three such cases were prosecuted under all previous presidents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/fbi-ex-agent-pleads-guilty-in-leak-to-ap.html?hp&_r=1&
Roesch/voltaire said...
Rybolovlev once purchased a $95 million home from Trump in a deal that appears to have been brokered by Trump's secretary of commerce, Wilbur Ross, in order to shelter assets from Rybolovlev's wife during a nasty divorce. Rybolovlev is also a shareholder in the Bank of Cyprus, where Ross was a vice president until his confirmation by the US Senate. The bank specializes in catering to Russian ‘flight capital--
Have ever read Foucault's Pendulum, Roesch-Voltaire?
Althouse Amazon Portal link:
https://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/015603297X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488664248&sr=8-1&keywords=foucoults+pendulum
GovHowardDean
@realDonaldTrump For those who may not know, a FISA warrant is issued by a court to catch terrorists. Set up after 9/11 by Bush
JonahNRO
04/03/17 12:56
My God. FISA courts were set up in 1978. And it's not expressly about catching terrorists either. You ran for president, right?
"Obama is really more of a petty tyrant Hugo Chavez kind of guy."
No, he is just a puppet, a plausible front, a man with a sonorous voice to speak someone else's lines.
Hugo Chavez was a proper tyrant, a proper demagogue, the mover not the moved, he spoke his own words (at great length) and he rose by taking massive personal risks.
This comment thread resembles a beehive after the queen has been threatened. Maybe we should take a step back. Maybe Trump's tweets, like Bob Dylan's lyrics, do not readily bear the weight of such fevered analysis. They are, after all, only the product of the private Donald Trump, an elderly gentleman's musings on the news of the day.
RV
I myself am an investor in Bank of Cyprus. I also once drove across the upper level of the 59th St bridge as did Trump.
Ross was Chairman of the Board, not a vice president.
The bank does not "specialize" in sheltering dark Russian money.
Rachel Maddow is not your best source btw.
When he says "Obama had my 'wires tapped'" shouldn't we be looking for an allegorical meaning?
Surely you are not that dumb. Even you must know that Andy McCarthy was the US Attorney who put away the "Blind Sheik for the 1993 WTC bombing.
Right ? You know that ?
While the commentariat was rending its garments over the mere prospect that Trump might have his political adversary, Hillary Clinton, investigated if he won the election, Obama was actually having Trump investigated. To rehearse briefly, in the weeks prior to June 2016, the FBI did a preliminary investigation, apparently based on concerns about a server at Trump Tower that allegedly had some connection to Russian financial institutions. Even if there were such a connection, it is not a crime to do business with Russian banks — lots of Americans do. It should come as no surprise, then, that the FBI found no impropriety and did not proceed with a criminal investigation. What is surprising, though, is that the case was not closed down. Instead, the Obama Justice Department decided to pursue the matter as a national-security investigation under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). In June, it sought the FISA court’s permission to conduct surveillance on a number of Trump associates — and perhaps even Trump himself. It has been reported that Trump was “named” in the application, but it is not publicly known whether he (a) was named as a proposed wiretap target, or (b) was just mentioned in passing in the application.
This is real, not some Democrat fever dream. Obama's administration spied on the candidate of the other party using National Security authority and apparatus.
I assume Trump will pursue this and find the FBI agent who submitted and signed under oath the request for the warrant.
Then, like "Maximum John" Sirica, a judge will start climbing the ladder toward the culprit. It might be Obama or it might be Lynch who heard him say "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest ?"
About whether Obama "signed off" on this or that --
Come on, you all know how this works.
Lynch who heard him say "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?"
Thank you. I knew I had a few examples, but I couldn't remember any.
Obama got so comfortable with the media running interference for him he thought himself Achilles without the heel. He was invulnerable. Imagine, he tapped James Rosen's email and followed him around, he tapped the AP, he had an IRS that tapped all kinds of things and nobody gave a damn.
Trump gives a damn. I'm hoping, but not sure, that Trump will expose this punk for all the world to see. Today was a start.
Michael said...
RV
I myself am an investor in Bank of Cyprus. I also once drove across the upper level of the 59th St bridge as did Trump.
Ross was Chairman of the Board, not a vice president.
The bank does not "specialize" in sheltering dark Russian money.
In one of the pivotal scenes in Foucault's Pendulum, the conspiracy addled husband interprets a cryptic note found in the pages of a Medieval text as being secret instructions sent from a Rosicrucian lord to his minions. The wife, who is an academic more familiar with the time period, informs her husband that the note is, in fact, a list of items to be laundered.
Blogger AReasonableMan said...
"This comment thread resembles a beehive after the queen has been threatened. Maybe we should take a step back. Maybe Trump's tweets, like Bob Dylan's lyrics, do not readily bear the weight of such fevered analysis. They are, after all, only the product of the private Donald Trump, an elderly gentleman's musings on the news of the day. "
So. A lot like yours, then.
Obama spokesman claims Obama never ever not once no sirree NEVER ordered surveillance on any American citizen EVER!
James Rosen could be reached for comment, but no one in the media will bother.
Some people are going to prison, it remains to be seen exactly who they are.
AReasonableMan: "This comment thread resembles a beehive after the queen has been threatened."
You mean like the MSM whenever obama/clinton catch a little flack?
I mean, just because the obama admin was using the state to investigate their political opponents, republicans are just supposed to sit quietly in the corner and say "thank you, may I have another?"
Hey, I have an idea: No thanks.
Wasn't there something about Obama's Chicago house, RV?
Or it was Gutierrez.
It's Chicago, Jake.
The more I see him fight back against these clowns, the more I see him take no prisoners, the more I'm glad I voted for him.
Looking forward to seeing Eric the Red and Lo Lynch behind bars. Maybe in John Mitchell's old cell.
"This is real, not some Democrat fever dream. Obama's administration spied on the candidate of the other party using National Security authority and apparatus."
Dementia.
Then there's the DR or Philippines condo of that NY dem.
Now IF the IRS was worth anything, and the rules are tightened up......
But laws are for the little people.
It is going to be quite interesting. We have been hearing for awhile that since there is a little bit of smoke (mostly created by the MSM), that we need an independent prosecutor to investigate ties between the Trump people and the Russians. Of course, there really isn't anything there. Never has been. But, someone above pointed out the information disparity. Trump and his people are in a position to find out exactly what happened with the wiretapping, if they haven't already. Moreover, Obama is no longer in a position to defend any of his underlings who were involved, if, indeed there was some wiretapping going on. Neither Holder nor Lynch is AG - rather, it is Sessions, who likely has a bone to pick with the Dems and the left right now. Unless, they have super secret pardons granted by Obama before he left office (unlikely, but was part of a Tom Clancy novel at one point).
In any case, if there were FISA warrants issued, there will be a paper trail. There is whole laundry list of things that must be in a FISA warrant application, and they have to essentially be certified by the AG. And, I frankly don't see anything in the FISA law that would allow the President to order such, or even to order that information obtained about a US Person (citizen or legal resident alien) be disclosed or declassified. Of course, the President (presumably while still in office) can argue that Separation of Powers allows him to do whatever he wants in this area (GW Bush's Administration argued that FISA couldn't keep them from tracking terrorists in their caves in Afghanistan, even if the trail led to the US - but FISA was revised before it was ever fully resolved). In other words, a sitting President can probably order that FISA warrants be declassified and released, but not the contents of conversations involving US Persons (esp. in the US) thanks to the Minimization requirements of FISA. I suspect that heads are going to roll, when the Flynn leaks are tracked down - FISA Minimization would not allow even the sitting President to authorize the leaks made.
There is a chance that there is no more fire here than there is with the Russian involvement that the Dems and the rest of the left (including much of the MSM) are so hot to push these days. But, the people in control of that information now are Trump and, esp., AG Sessions. He is too careful of a lawyer (ditto for FBI Dir Comey), that if this allegation is not withdrawn within the next couple days, but is continued to be pushed, I fully expect that there is something to it, and not just a pipe dream by Mark Levine. And, yes, there were apparently FISA warrant applications rejected last summer, and others granted late this fall, which is troubling, and far more smoke than the Dems have with their Russian involvement claim.
It should be interesting.
Senator Ben Sasse (R-Neb) made a statement on this that I think we should all support regardless of party.
"The president today made some very serious allegations, and the informed citizens that a republic requires deserve more information...If without [an authorization], the President should explain what sort of wiretap it was and how he knows this. It is possible that he was illegally tapped. On the other hand, if it was with a legal FISA court order, then an application for surveillance exists that the court found credible. The president should ask that this full application regarding surveillance of foreign operatives or operations be made available, ideally to the full public, and at a bare minimum to the U.S. Senate.
We are in the midst of a civilization-warping crisis of public trust, and the President’s allegations today demand the thorough and dispassionate attention of serious patriots. A quest for the full truth, rather than knee-jerk partisanship, must be our guide if we are going to rebuild civic trust and health."
Let me add that probably the only person who cannot be jailed, if there were nefarious things done concerning wire tapping (etc) of the Trump campaign, is Obama himself. And, maybe VP Biden. No one else. Not Valerie Jarett. Not Loretta Lynch. Etc.
Bay Area Guy wrote (1:51pm):
"This is starting to look like Watergate, but with several important distinctions:" So far, so good, but I was surprised to see that he thinks Trump is the one filling Nixon's role. It's beginning to look like the crooked president in this little gate is in fact Obama. We shall see.
"Dementia."
Poor Inga. Always the last to know.
Sasse is no friend. He is a NeverTrumper but he's right to the extent that an FBI investigation is in order.
The FISA warrant needs to be declassified and the FBI agent who signed the request is in big trouble.
My daughter used to be the agent/lawyer who submitted these but that was 10 or 15 years ago.
About now, if Trump is as smart as I think he is, he's talking to the agent or his lawyer.
Nixon got in trouble out of his compassion for the Watergate burglars. He didn't order it and Dean might have or it was just another "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest" again.
There is no danger of Obama getting embroiled out of compassion as he has none for anyone but himself.
He is just the type to get himself caught being too clever. He is always the smartest man in the room.
He did illegally tap journalists, so it isn't beyond the pale to believe this. Still, I'm waiting for some sort of proof.
There are too many stories based on "unnamed government sources" who allege that there are transcripts of too many Trump campaign people who have done this or that for there not to be some truth to the Obama people not engaging in Watergate-style illegality.
There is at the very least reasonable suspicion, if not probably cause to implement a full-scale criminal investigation. In that investigation, a claim of executive privilege would not or should not be available to Obama since it should be a privilege of the office, not the man, meaning that Trump can release everything and compel testimony under oath.
It's beginning to look like the crooked president in this little gate is in fact Obama. We shall see.
Obama thinks it's Trump but that's what I mean about being too clever by half.
He's just not as smart as he thinks he is.
"I've asked some of my conservative friends the following question and I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet: "Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?"."
-- No, which is why I was flabbergasted by the Obama administration's laying down over uranium, Putin's strong arm movements in creating local geographical political power and in granting them more flexibility.
"Even if you don't believe that the Trump administration has been "Kompromat", there's a strong argument that Putin has become the ideological leader of post-2008 nationalist movements everywhere which is why Bannon and Trump see him as a natural ally."
-- This is stupid. Was Obama "Kompromat"?
"On the other hand, if it was with a legal FISA court order, then an application for surveillance exists that the court found credible"
Good to know that #Nevertrumper Sen. Sasse - who DID NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP - is so "concerned". Odd that he's not concerned about the never ending unsupported charges against Trump, Sessions, Flynn, etc. that have "eroded confidence in our politicians and Federal Government".
Just like the Democrats, his "concern" only seems to work one way.
"Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?"
Yes, yes I can.
It seems obvious to me that militant Islam, including both Islamic states (mainly Iran) and non-state groups (ISIL, Al Qaeda, etc.) is a bigger threat to the U.S. and the world than Russia, and we should therefore work with Russia to destroy the Islamists. That would be the equivalent of working with Stalin to destroy Hitler and Tojo - it doesn't matter how evil Stalin was (or Putin is) if the alternative is even worse. That would also involve convincing Russia to stop trying to use Iran against us, in other words convincing Putin that Islamic terror is a greater threat to him than we are. We should be able to cooperate without entirely trusting each other.
Was that so hard to figure out? It seems obvious to me.
I think we already have our John Dean, NSA's Mike Rogers. The timeline is pretty damning that he met with Trump privately November 17th and the next thing you know the deep state wants him fired.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-and-intelligence-community-chiefs-have-urged-obama-to-remove-the-head-of-the-nsa/2016/11/19/44de6ea6-adff-11e6-977a-1030f822fc35_story.html?utm_term=.96c08b15881f
I see nothing wrong with Sasse's comments and I agree that it should all come out as soon as possible so we can all see what the "there" is.
Notice that it's only the democrats who are screaming to "bury" the investigation under an Independent Counsel which would take months with no info (except negative to Trump innuendo) leaking out.
Notice it's the republicans who keep saying to declassify the info to the extent possible and share it as widely as possible.
Gee, it's almost as if the dems don't really want all the actual information out there and want to keep this bottled up with only leaks to the NYT.
I wonder if we can discern any intent by that? By which I mean of course we can discern intent by that.
Leftwing media - using fake news and narrative directives - says "Shocking new evidence!" proves Trump and Russia connections blah blah blah... without any actual evidence..
Unknown: ""This is real, not some Democrat fever dream. Obama's administration spied on the candidate of the other party using National Security authority and apparatus."
Dementia"
LOL
Poor Unknown.
She doesn't even realize the issue has advanced beyond whether or not Obama did this. He did. That's what the FISA warrants are all about. What's at issue is the justification offered up by obambi's minions for doing it.
So, to summarize the left: There is no way that the obama admin spied on Trump and his campaign and obama was completely and totally justified in spying on the Trump campaign because "treason".
AprilApple: "Leftwing media - using fake news and narrative directives - says "Shocking new evidence!" proves Trump and Russia connections blah blah blah... without any actual evidence."
And they re-release their evidence-free assertions about once a week ("quoting" multiple unnamed sources in the govt or recently within the govt) which then the rest of media amplifies.
All the while nothing has changed since last summer in terms of evidence against Trump. And that means there is no evidence for if there were it would have leaked long ago.
No, the dems want the "trickle" of accusations to continue and if they can get, thru chicanery, an actual obama-loving Independent Counsel installed that guy/gal can torment the Trump admin for years with no underlying crime and keep digging until someone mistakes a 3pm meeting 2 years earlier for a 4pm meeting and they get "Scooter Libby-ed".
Which is the entire point behind the dems screaming for an independent counsel instead of all the info coming out rapidly to the congressional teams.
Obama in Gitmo - love the idea.
Yeah I think Sasse is right. Let's see how flimsy the information is. People keep suggesting that Manafort is at the center of the investigation, but he was long gone in October.
"Notice that it's only the democrats who are screaming to "bury" the investigation under an Independent Counsel which would take months with no info (except negative to Trump innuendo) leaking out."
Ohhhhhh no you don't. I know of no Democrats that are trying to bury any investigation. We've been talking about investigations for months now. Let this be rolled into the already ongoing investigations or have a separate one, I don't care. It's probably Trump that doesn't want any investigation because of what it might reveal. If a FISA warrent was issued, it was for probable cause, which doesn't bode well for Trump.
I hope the headline writers get a raise.
Drago - yep. Media are all hacks in bed with the corruptocrats.
Besides their obsession with bannon - the other leftwing group-think obsession is
Trump's taxes.
Didn't the Clintons tell us they made 10 million dollars last year? Leftist do not care how the Clintons made 10 million. Speeches? really? Pay to play? Weee - nobody cares.
At least Trump makes money the old fashioned way. which is unacceptable to the neo-fascist left.
The seriousness of the charge demands an investigation. I wonder it Trump actually knows more. Like FISA warrants on other Hillary opponents. Or other administration opponents. Did Trump having the back of that CIA agent in Portugal open a new door with the intelligence community?
Josh Barrow tweet:
"You can't "distract" from the Russia story by generating more Russia news. This isn't checkers or chess; it's choking on your own vomit."
Tom Nichols tweet:
"So, I've been busy all afternoon. Any further evidence that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump?
No?
Okay, just checking."
Just like the whole Citizen's United deal, anybody who puts out honest information about the Clinton political machine must be punished! We get it, we get it.
This is what Bubba met the fat munchkin AG about on the tarmac. Bet on it!
Drago,
The DOJ would've had to have gone in front of a FISA court and gotten the warrent. Judges don't just throw out those warrent willy nilly. For a judge to have issued a warrent to tap Trump's phone, Trump is in a world of hurt. Trump probably gave away some confidential info today with his stupid temper tantrums.
I am glad that Trump finally indicated who the enemy is. Obama. The leaks have all been done by Clapper and Brennan. That has been obvious for a while. Obama came up with the fiction that Trump is a Russian plant. It was and is ridiculous. NSA director Adm Mike Rogers is still according to Google, the NSA director and he knows. Trump can order the FBI to reveal who the agent that sought the warrant They can be interrogated and charges made of illegally using FISA for political ends.
"Poor Unknown.
She doesn't even realize the issue has advanced beyond whether or not Obama did this. He did. That's what the FISA warrants are all about. What's at issue is the justification offered up by obambi's minions for doing it."
And the poor addled dear is too dumb to realize that this just might turn out very badly for the team whose lawbreaking she is cheering.
Unknown is a stupid cunt. FISA has had over 33,000 requests and denied 12! You ignorant slut!
I find it interestimg that Kellyanne Conway is on Justice Jeanine Pirro's show tonight at 9PM. Will more shoes drop?
Dans Coats can also lead the investigation on whom instigated the sedition. This is national security issue and Obama is in the thick. Trump's tweet forced Obama to deny it Yet Jon Faveau had to issue a warning not to deny the wire taps.
Dr. Weevil asserts: It seems obvious to me that militant Islam, including both Islamic states (mainly Iran) and non-state groups (ISIL, Al Qaeda, etc.) is a bigger threat to the U.S. and the world than Russia, and we should therefore work with Russia to destroy the Islamists. That would be the equivalent of working with Stalin to destroy Hitler and Tojo - it doesn't matter how evil Stalin was (or Putin is) if the alternative is even worse. That would also involve convincing Russia to stop trying to use Iran against us, in other words convincing Putin that Islamic terror is a greater threat to him than we are. We should be able to cooperate without entirely trusting each other.
Was that so hard to figure out? It seems obvious to me.
Obvious to me, too. The Russians have dealt with Islamism and Islamic terrorism longer than we have. It's hard to believe that anyone with even an ounce of awareness would consider Russia a bigger threat than radical Islam, whose stated goal is to retake the Ottoman Empire and then the world.
"Here are my questions, about all of which I am, I want to stress, entirely serious:
Are you making the allegation that President Obama conducted electronic surveillance of Trump Tower in your capacity as President of the United States based on intelligence or law enforcement information available to you in that capacity?
If so—that is, if you have executive branch information validating that either a FISA wiretap or a Title III wiretap took place—have you reviewed the applications for the surveillance and have you or your lawyers concluded that they lack merit?
If you know that a FISA wiretap took place, are you or were you at the time of the application, an agent of a foreign power within the meaning of FISA?
Was anyone else working in Trump Tower an agent of a foreign power within the meaning of FISA?
If you know that a Title III wiretap took place, are you or were you at the time of the application engaged in criminal activity that would support a Title III wiretap or might you have previously engaged in criminal activity that might legitimately be the subject of a Title III wiretap?
Was anyone else working in Trump Tower engaged in criminal activity that would support a Title III wiretap or might another person have previously engaged in criminal activity that might legitimately be the subject of a Title III wiretap?
If you were tweeting not based on knowledge received as chief executive of the United States, were you tweeting in your capacity as a reader of Breitbart or a listener of Mark Levin's radio show?
If so, on what basis are you confident the stories and allegations in these august outlets are true and accurate vis a vis the activity of the government you, in fact, now head?
If you learned of this alleged surveillance from media outlets, did you or anyone on your staff check with any responsible law enforcement or intelligence officials or agencies before making public allegations against your own government?
What exactly does any of this have to do with Arnold Schwarzenegger?"
https://www.lawfareblog.com/ten-questions-president-trump
What exactly does any of this have to do with Arnold Schwarzenegger?"
Nothing. Different thread.
Again, where did the notion, the "evidence" that Trump was working with Russia to steal the election from Hillary originate, that required further investigation and wire taps?
I believe Trump is worried that the NSA or FBI or someone caught him talking to the Russians, Obmana is hoping Trump will vigorously deny it. Then Obama will produce the tape showing that Trump was lying and demand that Trump resign or be impeached.
Trump figured the only way to beat this was to go on the offensive now by arguing that Obama was wiretapping him. Good tactic. But I bet Obama actually does have Trump on tape, talking to the Russians.
I have no clue what happens next.
Chuck wishes...
A good lawyer might also be able to make a case for defamation against Donald Trump, if "Obama" didn't actually "wiretap" Trump Tower. Especially after President Trump "opens up" the libel laws.
3/4/17, 10:24 AM"
Chuck comes out immediately against Trump and starts defending Obama!
Unexpectedly!
Paul Ciotti: I believe Trump is worried that the NSA or FBI or someone caught him talking to the Russians, Obmana is hoping Trump will vigorously deny it. Then Obama will produce the tape showing that Trump was lying and demand that Trump resign or be impeached.
Trump figured the only way to beat this was to go on the offensive now by arguing that Obama was wiretapping him. Good tactic. But I bet Obama actually does have Trump on tape, talking to the Russians.
I have no clue...
FTFY
"I believe Trump is worried that the NSA or FBI or someone caught him talking to the Russians, Obmana is hoping Trump will vigorously deny it. Then Obama will produce the tape showing that Trump was lying and demand that Trump resign or be impeached.
Trump figured the only way to beat this was to go on the offensive now by arguing that Obama was wiretapping him. Good tactic. But I bet Obama actually does have Trump on tape, talking to the Russians.
I have no clue what happens next."
Plausible, maybe even probable.
"I believe Trump is worried that the NSA or FBI or someone caught him talking to the Russians, Obmana is hoping Trump will vigorously deny it. Then Obama will produce the tape showing that Trump was lying and demand that Trump resign or be impeached.
Trump figured the only way to beat this was to go on the offensive now by arguing that Obama was wiretapping him. Good tactic. But I bet Obama actually does have Trump on tape, talking to the Russians."
Obama wouldn't have a copy of the tape. If there is a tape, the intelligence community would have the tape.
Peoples, don't hold your breath waiting for Obama to "get involved" with politics. Obama is going to write a book, relax, give speeches, raise $$ for his library, go to restaurants, go to plays, go on vay-cay with his wife and kids. He has no interest in getting involved with Trump drama.
"Peoples, don't hold your breath waiting for Obama to "get involved" with politics."
Exactly right, he is already involved. In fact, he's never left. Commie-pinko lefties can breathe easy.
I believe Trump is worried that the NSA or FBI or someone caught him talking to the Russians,..
Again, down the rabbit hole we go-
"Talking to the Russians", whatever that is, doesn't not equate to conspiring to steal and election.
Blogger Browndog said...
Again, down the rabbit hole we go-
"Talking to the Russians", whatever that is, doesn't not equate to conspiring to steal and election.
The MSMS, especially the NY Times and the WaPo, will print the absolute worst that is defensible about Trump.
So if they claim that Trump or a surrogate met with a Russian agent, you know that they are stretching the definition of both "Russian agent" and "met with."
Buzzfeed, not a reputable news source, reports on the bizzarro-world FBI dossier on Trump. CNN reports on Buzzfeed's report of the dissier, and Al Franken brings up the discredited "dossier" contents as being reported by CNN.
One interesting possibility is that Trump has ID'd an Obama cabal as being the source of his in-government opposition, and Trump is letting Obama know that the current president can damage the ex-president if the ill-will flows both ways. I imagine that Trump has the wherewithal to selectively leak information from the Obama days that will damage Obama and the Democratic party in the eyes of certain donors.
Blogger wwww said...
"Obama wouldn't have a copy of the tape. If there is a tape, the intelligence community would have the tape.
Peoples, don't hold your breath waiting for Obama to "get involved" with politics. Obama is going to write a book, relax, give speeches, raise $$ for his library, go to restaurants, go to plays, go on vay-cay with his wife and kids. He has no interest in getting involved with Trump drama."
Holder: Obama is 'ready to roll'
By EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE 02/28/17 03:07 PM EST
Barack Obama is getting closer to making his public reappearance in politics, his friend and former Attorney General Eric Holder said on Tuesday.
Holder said he’s been talking to the former president about ways — including fundraising and interacting with state legislators — that could help the new National Democratic Redistricting Committee, which Obama asked Holder to chair last year.
“It’s coming. He’s coming,” Holder said, speaking to reporters at a briefing for the new group. “And he’s ready to roll.”
Throughout, Holder said, Obama “will be a more visible part of the effort.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/eric-holder-obama-ready-public-235508
I see no way having an ex president fight the current president would set a great precedent or be in the long term health of our democratic tradition.
Also that Trump's accusation has some merit is troubling to me. Obama used the IRS to influence elections, the tarmac meeting with Clinton looks terribly corrupt and Obama did wiretap unfriendly journalists. This isn't a ridiculous accusation given what we know of Obama.
Also, the courts were weaponized illegally against Republicans like Ted Stevens. It isn't impossible, so Trump needs to show us the cards he's holding.
Unknown/Inga.
"I have no clue "
We know.
Paul Ciotti
"I believe Trump is worried that the NSA or FBI or someone caught him talking to the Russians,"
At least you are a real person, if clueless.
What in the fuck would he talk to the Russians about ? His apartment building? You lefties are just hilarious.
Matthew Sablan said...
Trump needs to show us the cards he's holding.
Only Jokers, the trump card.
"The flushing sounds would drown out the juicy stuff."
They are indeed correlated, but it is the force of gravity, GRAVITY if you have seen the feature motion picture Interstellar starring Mathew McHaugneheyehyhey 'cause they know all about gravity alright, everything, and not the sounds you hear and fear, doing the flushing.
Gravity.
Michael K, you really are getting senile.
Blogger Paul Ciotti said...
"I have no clue what happens next."
3/4/17, 7:02 PM
*******************
Michael K wrote:
What in the fuck would he talk to the Russians about ? His apartment building? You lefties are just hilarious.
What would they talk about? The Russkis thought that Hillary would win.
Jon Favreau:
"I'd be careful about reporting that Obama said there was no wiretapping. Statement just said that neither he nor the WH ordered it."
https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/838086840515112960
So maybe Obama's DoJ. Do these people have no idea of history? Of law and order outside of their will to power? What was the potential upside of wiretapping the opposition presidential candidate that could make it worth the hot mess of it being exposed?
Inga, I:ll take your advice under advisement.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
What was the potential upside of wiretapping the opposition presidential candidate that could make it worth the hot mess of it being exposed?"
If Trump had lost the election (as almost everyone expected he would), nothing would have been exposed. Nobody would have known about it.
@Angel-Dyne
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you identified yourself as (one of the last of the) Real Conservatives? Can't you answer that question to your own satisfaction? If your friends don't concur, then they're not "Real Conservatives"."
No. I'm not a conservative. Never have identified with that label.
"I assume by the nature of your questions and comments your "conservative" friends are Conservatism, Inc., conservatives (aka "real conservatives" aka "right liberals" aka "neocon neoliberals"), or contrarily, since they identify themselves as "conservatives" you assume that that's what they are."
I have a co-worker and friend who is a die hard Trumpist. Has been in the Trump camp since the primaries. I have other friends who are registered republicans. They also self identify as conservatives.
"No, that isn't a strong argument, it's a silly one. It's Neocon Retard 101. Anyone who thinks that Vladimir Putin is the "ideological leader" of resurgent nationalism, or that the entirely predictable resurgence of nationalist movements that we're seeing today is some wily Kremlin-directed plot, or that "Bannon and Trump" see him as a "natural ally", is an idiot."
Yeah, Trump, Farage, Le Pen and other nationalist leaders just happen to all speak of Putin in glowing terms. Yeah, when you refuse to confront the preponderance of evidence to justify your support for a really retarded pro-Russia pivot, I can't help you.
"The "post-cold war world order" has much more serious threats to its continuation than small-potatoes Putin - like the clueless, reality-denying policies of its leaders. Furthermore, millions of ordinary American citizens (and citizens of nations everywhere, for that matter) aren't too pleased with where the "post-cold war order", helmed by a government that alleges to be working in their interest, is going..."
The post cold-war neo-liberal order has lifted millions out of poverty around the world and has led to one of the longest, sustained periods of international peace and stability. That should be obvious to anyone with the most basic understanding of the history and international relations.
"...and if you're dedicated to maintaining an order that is not serving the interests of the citizens it purports to represent, or cynically self-interested in maintaining an order that is working out nicely for you, regardless, or just a not very bright apparatchik, you start blaming the cracks in the system on various bogey-men and Hitlers-of-the-month, and imagining all sorts of crazy shit, such as that the people you disagree with want to "align" with the likes of Putin, rather than deal with him prudently in the ways that best serve our (as opposed to "our") interests."
I'm going to assume that the long rant above has to do with trade and jobs. I hate to break it to you, but those jobs ain't coming back. And a lot of those jobs are going to be automated. I assume you also long for a time when people with high school diplomas in this country had a guaranteed path to the middle class. You know why they had that path? Unions. Want decent high paying jobs back? Strengthen unions and follow the German model of apprenticeships and technical education. Models that BTW have been proposed time and time again by Obama and the "not very bright apparatchik".I'm sorry, but a silly speech or two at Carrier ain't doing shit. Trump doesn't have a single policy proposal that'll help the people you purport to care and speak for. You guys have no vision, no policies, no ideas, and you're just fucking shit up for the rest of us.
What was the potential upside of wiretapping the opposition presidential candidate that could make it worth the hot mess of it being exposed?"
Excellent question. I can only assume it's a death wish, which seems to infect a lot of the west these days.
Trump doesn't have a single policy proposal that'll help the people you purport to care and speak for.
You're right. Nobody should expect you to be anything but a clueless lefty. You people can be intelligent. I have a lefty daughter who is very bright. But the problem is when ever you people get control, reality ends up giving you Venezuela, or California.
"What was the potential upside of wiretapping the opposition presidential candidate that could make it worth the hot mess of it being exposed?""
-- Uh... to do exactly what they're doing now, empowering "the resistance" and leaking things to the press to weaken the opposition president if they lost. Remember: Clinton projected an aura of invincibility, but a lot of people in her inner circle and in politics knew she had weaknesses in the Rust Belt (it is why Bill Clinton and Obama loyalists both tried to convince her to campaign more there.)
"What was the potential upside of wiretapping the opposition presidential candidate that could make it worth the hot mess of it being exposed?""
-- Also, remember: There was no potential upside to illegally leaking nonprofit donor information to Obama allies -- save to intimidate those donors into not engaging in politics against Obama. There was no potential upside to illegally having the IRS silence conservative politics -- save to intimidate those who might use their First Amendment rights to speak against the Obama administration. There was no potential upside to running guns illegally to Mexican cartels, save to lie about the source of those guns to empower the Obama administration to take action against "illegal guns." There was no potential upside to wiretapping journalists who did not write flattering stories about the Obama administration, save to whip the press and remind them who had the power.
If your only argument is that you can't understand WHY Obama might abuse the power of the presidency, as he did routinely solely to consolidate his base and punish his political enemies, then, well, you just don't know much about the Obama presidency.
Also, here's my completely ridiculous answer, if life were a movie. If Clinton had won, what would the upside be?
They'd be frogmarching every Republican they could in front of their weaponized Department of Justice, just as they did with Cruz, Ted Stevens and others in an attempt to use the power of the state to stop the opposition. Most of the rank and file Democrats would probably think they were working against a Russian spy ring that had infiltrated the government under Obama's watch, or whatever they'd argue about Russia's failed "hack" of the election.
Sessions: In jail. Trump's entire inner circle, in jail or turned to Democrat lackey. Remember how brutally Obama culled Blue Dog Democrats and Clinton loyalists to solidify his power base? That would be nothing, since Obama still was on the nominal same side as with those Democrats. You'd see Hillary Clinton's Attorney General arresting Republicans in the middle of the night and conducting no-knock raids like we saw in Wisconsin on Republicans.
Now, in reality, I doubt it would be anything that drastic, but had Clinton won, imagine how she'd be using this fake Russia Election Hack to solidify her power base.
Putin watches and concludes: the US left will do anything to beat its domestic opponents. How can I exploit their Primat der Innenpolitik?
I told you this was going to happen. Many people have been violating some serious laws and are going to jail for a long time. I wonder how many will point the finger at obama to avoid some jail time.
I think Trump is referring to the wiretaps the Obama administration got under FISA. Trump didn't say unauthorized wiretaps. He just said wiretaps, and that's apparently what the Obama administration did. Whether the Obama administration broke the law and abused its authority under FISA to get those wiretaps is something we will find out soon enough.
If Trump's enemies in the government had any real evidence that Trump was guilty of conspiring with Russian agents to steal Podesta's emails, they would surely have leaked that evidence by now. I think we can safely assume that there is no such evidence, and no such conspiracy, and that all we are seeing now is an attempt to undermine the administration with wild speculation and innuendo (a/k/a catnip to Democrats).
I've been looking back at old Obama quotes because I remember something he said in an official capacity years ago that riled me, something about instituting changes that will change the way we are governed for generations. This bugged me because the president is a hired hand. He's there for eight years at most, and what happens after that is no more his responsibility than it is the responsibility of any other citizen.
It wasn't really what I was looking for, but I found his old "fundamentally transform" America speech from just before the election in 2008. It's worth reviewing just to see how far short he fell from the goals he set for his administration:
"Now, Mizzou, I just have two words for you tonight: five days. Five days. After decades of broken politics in Washington, and eight years of failed policies from George W. Bush, and 21 months of a campaign that's taken us from the rocky coast of Maine to the sunshine of California, we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.
"In five days, you can turn the page on policies that put greed and irresponsibility on Wall Street before the hard work and sacrifice of folks on Main Street. In five days, you can choose policies that invest in our middle class, and create new jobs, and grow this economy, so that everyone has a chance to succeed, not just the CEO, but the secretary and janitor, not just the factory owner, but the men and women on the factory floor."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/feb/06/what-barack-obama-has-said-about-fundamentally-tra/
These days, for years, actually, Obama (and someone else on this thread) has said "those jobs aren't coming back."
I also ran across copious links to writings by intellectuals in 2008. They really seemed to believe that the progressive dream was being fulfilled by Obama, that he had immanentized the eschaton merely by speaking pretty words and agreeing with them. They look like fools, now, but I suppose they are still yapping like they have something worth hearing.
I think that Douglas is correct - the wiretap so were apparently FISA wire taps, presumably obtained through application to a FISC judge, with facially valid FISA warrant applications, prepared by DoJ attys, overseen by the AG herself. One interesting question is going to be what was in the applications. For a FISA application targeting a US Person, there have to be strong evidence that they will provide Foreign Intelligence, presumably dealing with a foreign power (since any real link to terrorism would be highly questionable). What were they looking for? Was that reasonable? And did the Obama/Lynch DoJ fudge the facts a bit? As I pointed out earlier, I think that Trump has the power to declassify the FISA warrant applications if he wants to. I think that we will ultimately get an idea what was in them.
Another interesting question is who were the targets of the FISA warrants. Trump generalized, saying essentially that wiretap orders were granted for Trump Tower. But that could mean himself, his family, his campaign, transition team, or someone who just lives there (I think that unlikely strategically from his point of view).
Back on November 1, when WaPo's editors thought Hillary was headed for an easy win over Trump, they had quite a different take on Trmp communications with the Russians:
For all of Foer's exegesis of the situation — culminating, he admits, with a lack of certainty about what it all means — it seems likely that the simplest answer isn't that someone affiliated with Trump or his campaign set up a backchannel method for contacting someone at Alfa Bank in Russia. It seems more likely that the human tendency for pattern-seeking is extracting a conspiracy theory from the automated clunkiness of the way the Internet works.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/01/that-secret-trump-russia-email-server-link-is-likely-neither-secret-nor-a-trump-russia-link/
Remember that we were told the IRS scandal targeting conservative nonprofits was due to a couple "rogue" IRS employees, which was hokum. I wouldn't put it past Obama to wiretap everybody he hated.
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