Oh, come on. People aren't
And, by the way, did Ms. Califano — wife of Jimmy Carter's HEW Secretary and daughter of the founder and long-time chairman of CBS — not have the wit to mouth a comeback for "How could you vote for Trump? He’s a liar!"?
Anyone with the wherewithal to stumble into a voting booth should be able at least to get to: "Hillary's a liar." It's almost easy to leap right into Oscar Wilde territory: "Considering the opposition, how was it possible not to vote for a liar?
ADDED: I'm looking back into the career of Joseph A. Califano, Carter's first HEW Secretary, whowas fired by Carter in 1979. Why? Here's a 1981 Christian Science Monitor review of Califano's autobiography:
In July of 1979, when Jimmy Carter was disastrously down in the opinion polls and was considering a purge of his Cabinet, Washington lawyer Edward Bennett Williams told the author of this book, "You ought to hope he fires you. The guy is through and it will give you a way out."Hamilton Jordan was 32 when he became Jimmy Carter's Chief of Staff.
Carter obliged and effectively dismissed Califano, his Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare, along with four other members of his Cabinet. As a device to restore Carter's popularity the maneuver failed....
Califano [tells] how it felt to be high up and inside and on the receiving end of a barrage of biting and peremptory notes from the President, ordering him to do this or that. [H]e tells what it was like to be a Cabinet member who launched a major campaign on the hazards of smoking, only to have the rug abruptly pulled out from under him by a President who was all too aware of the impact the powerful North Carolina tobacco growers could have on his prospects for reelection. And he tells how it felt to be accused by Carter of disloyally leaking secrets to the press when, as Califano and other members of the Cabinet saw it, the prime culprits were Hamilton Jordan and Jody Powell....
Califano shows Hamilton Jordan intervening again and again with the words, "I don't know anything about the merits, but I know the politics for the President."....
Posts
81 comments:
"People aren't aloud to have vivid political conversations."
People are 'allowed' to be 'aloud'.
I am Laslo.
If you read the full article:
Schumer followed her out of the place to the street yelling at her and she expressed regret not replying that Hillary was a liar.
...but Trump is the unhinged one.
The Democrat party has a corruption problem.
The idea that they stood behind Hillary, the liar, the crook, the money-grubber who used a private server to stuff her private coffers while holding one of the highest positions in our government, is offensive to the core.
Shame on you Chuck Schumer and all democrats who ignored and swept under the rug the crimes of Hillary Clinton.
Clean up your party, and flush the Clintons, or you will continue to lose.
Althouse, If I say "Allowed", you are going to plead pun, so should I bother?>
Schumer carried on with his fantastical filibuster: '"How could you vote for Trump?
It's NYC for G_d's sake. No random vote for Trump matters :)
When you're being trolled by an imbecile you decide if you should respond or let it go. Sometimes you regret the decision.
I could see where the woman tried to maintain dignity and respect for fellow diners when there was none coming from Schumer.
People have the right to a quiet meal out without being confronted by a lunatic.
One person's 'Fantastical filibuster' is another's 'douchebag move'.
Yelling "She voted for Trump!" on a Manhattan street isn't having a vigorous political discussion. It's pinning Scarlet Letters on their chests and inviting others to join in the public humiliation.
Perhaps Schumer's point was the lefties cannot afford to have one more come their senses.
I'm the other person who voted for Trump in NY
And yet, no "Althouse trolls her commentariat" tag.
I've had no experience like this, but if I did, I'd call over a manager or staff person and explain that one of the two of us was leaving, and if they decided it was me, I was never coming back.
There's a time and place for political discussion; at dinner with an unwilling partner is not the time or place.
People aren't aloud to have vivid political conversations in a restaurant?
Recently I was asked to comment on a business contract, and I was puzzled by the apparent verb "aloud" which appeared there several times. I'm not a lawyer, so I assumed from the context that there must be some legal term "aloud" which means something like "to express consent explicitly".
I spent quite a while searching the Internet for the legal term "to aloud" but did not find it. Finally I gave up and simply underlined the word in the contract and wrote a question mark.
Only later, when I saw a revised version of the contract did I learn that the word was merely a misspelling of "allowed".
And Schumer gets to vote on Gorsuch.
I'd yell back "You voted for the corrupt lying money-grubbing power-whore! You are an embarrassment!"
Pity Code Duelo is still not in effect.
Interesting to see Schumer try pistols at 10 paces.
I bet he would not back up his words with action.
"Things got a little out of hand. It’s just this war and that lying son of a bitch Johnson and…I would never hurt you. You know that."
Replace Johnson with Trump: good to go.
I am Laslo.
So, how many incidents have there ever been with cons harassing Billy J or O or Hillary voters in the same way?
If the story is describing it correctly, the couple was minding their own business and Schumer overheard and decided to scream at them.
If the situations were reversed and Schumer were a conservative, liberals would hound him nonstop in the media and elsewhere. He would have to apologize. He might have to resign.
Yes, our President Trump is a sloppy and reckless communicator, but he intends to enforce our country's immigration laws.
The Democratic Party opposes any enforcement unless the person has committed a violent felony. Also, so-called "judges" reflexively prevent the enforcement of any immigration laws.
Since Trump was elected, it is becoming crystal clear that any immigration-law grand bargain -- mass amnesty in exchange for future enforcement -- would be only mass amnesty during Democrat administrations.
If Hillary Clinton had won, she already would be opening the flood gates for immigrants from Third World countries in order to make the future electorate much more Democrat.
Columnist Saleno Zito wrote an interesting article for The New York Post titled "Why Trump's Approval Ratings Don't Matter". It says basically that the Democrat Party has lost the entire electoral map outside the large cities. Here's a passage in the article:
(quote)
Don Brick is one of those voters. He voted for Obama, but then Trump. And though he bristles at the president’s habit of getting himself in trouble, there’s no way he’s withdrawing his support.
“I understood who I was voting for. I understood that he is loose with the truth. I wanted someone who was not a politician, and I am very satisfied with how he has conducted business in Washington when it comes to getting things done,” says Brick.
(end quote)
http://nypost.com/2017/03/25/dont-believe-trumps-approval-ratings/
"People aren't aloud to have vivid political conversations in a restaurant?"
'Fess up. Meade egged you on on that one, didn't he?
When Chuck Schumer gets beyond "Trump's a liar. You voted for a liar!", it could be a vivid political conversation, but this one wasn't. If lying were a religion, Washington, D.C., would be Rome (or Mecca, if you are inclined that way).
A more vivid political conversation might have been Schumer saying, "Trump has never toed the line here in New York, and he won't in DC either." and Mrs Califano saying, "Chuck, you have ruined everything you touch, and now you want to squelch someone who has to clean up your mess! You make me sick to look at you!"
Now that would be a vivid political conversation.
Hopefully the health department was called. Vermin like Schumer shouldn't be allowed to infest restaurants.
"I think it's nice..."
Althouse, you crack me up sometimes.
It would have been nice if Mrs. Califano had played her nuclear option.
You mean kicked Schumer in the nuts?
This is all so very delicious.
This is another sign, along with the coming filibuster of Gorsuch, that Trump cannot "reach out to Democrats" and expect anything but insanity like this.
The next step is for McConnell to end the filibuster for ALL Senate votes and let er rip.
I wonder if he has the nerve.
Sorry about the "aloud" thing. That originating in something... some joke that didn't happen...
Imagine a male Republican lawmaker berating a woman over whom she voted for.
That is all.
Oh Bob Boyed, a very good comeback.
"And yet, no "Althouse trolls her commentariat" tag."
I cop to trolling on this one. Used the word on my own talking to Meade before I read this.
Is Schumer part of the Martin Van Buren gang?
If you don't like hearing what other people say in Gnu Yawk, live somewhere else.
Stay classy, Chuckie!
The first time I ever became aware of Chuck Schumer was years ago on tv when someone kept calling him a liar and the look on Schumer's face confirmed the accusation.
They just wanted to eat their waffles in peace.
I see this incident as more proof that Trump is winning, we're going to have so much winning that we're going to...
When it comes to winning arguments, tact and charm are not the big weapons in Schumer's arsenal. Still, he's the Democractic leader of the Senate, and he had the vision and foresight to push not only Hillary's candidacy but that of Keith Ellison. This man knows things. If that woman had only voted for Hillary and proclaim med her allegiance to Democrats, this unfortunate incident would never have happened. Voting has consequences.
Thank you, Darcy. I was specifically looking for a waffle call-out here. "Waffle privilege" like so many others is reserved exclusively to the elite progressive class.
Hollywood movies have taught us that you don't try to argue or reason with hysterics, you slap them. That's what Schumer needed, if he behaved as described.
Ann's deformation professionelle is gonna take some time to drop away. There's a fine line between teaching to the Socratic method and sadism. Too early in the morning for me to be provoked into seeing another view, Ann.
I'd be frightened by someone following me and shouting at me, whether it's an unhinged politician or a deranged homeless person.
"Hamilton Jordan was 32 when he became Jimmy Carter's Chief of Staff."
Not ready for prime time, he died at 61. Jody Powell died at 65 and Jimmy Carter won't die.
Isn't there a general rule that you should avoid being a dick?
This is like that tranny teacher you mentioned a few days ago. The teachers were dicks to that tranny as well.
Don't get the condemnation for them and the lack of condemnation for noted subhuman Schumer
War on woman! Manplaining! Vote shaming!
..and Godawful whining nasal aural assault...
I think that your analysis fails to take into account that Mr. Shumer is an elected official - he is protected. If Mr. Shumer was just another 'man on the street', he would run the risk of getting punched in the face by taunting the couple and following them out of the restaurant. I believe that, because of his position, he does not run this risk and acts accordingly. It is similar to the small woman who mouths off to a man knowing that the man is not going to punch her. If the small woman's male companion were to mouth off in the same way, he runs the risk of getting punched in the face. Mr. Shumer acted like the small woman in this situation - pitiful and sad.
It bugged me then as it does now recalling the media instructing us we had to pronounce Hamilton Jordan's last name as "Jur-den." Imagine today the media obliging a Southern pronunciation of a Trump aide.
At any rate, it's "Jor-dan" people. I never met a "Jur-den" in my life and I've got Southern relatives.
Schumer was on an episode of the Apprentice.
Trump introduced him as "my friend..."
Hell hath no fury like a politician scorned.
Schumer is often seen behind podium,in Senate Chamber reading script berating Republicans or their proposals. Is the Senate empty when he does this? He acts as if he is speaking to an audience.
@M. Jordan: At any rate, it's "Jor-dan" people.
Nowadays, he just goes by "Hamilton!"
He's lucky he didn't get a clout in the snout.
Metternich could well have asked "what did he mean by that?"
There is a reason behind everything.
In this case I think there is, as so often, rather more to the story than we know.
One does not go about shouting at very wealthy elderly people in respectable restaurants, not even in New York, nor does one follow them into the street to shout some more.
Even a shameless politician like Schumer lives inside a web of calculation, and there is usually a purpose to every word.
I wonder who else was at Schumers table.
You've got to call out Trump voters or everybody will be voting Trump.
"Is the Senate empty when he does this? He acts as if he is speaking to an audience."
It doesn't matter if there are any other Senators in the room as long as there is a news camera.
It is said that the most dangerous place to be in DC is standing between Schumer and a TV camera.
"Anyone with the wherewithal to stumble into a voting booth should be able at least to get to: "Hillary's a liar." "
Hardly. A lot of people aren't immediately ready with a retort when someone makes an unexpected, assholish comment to them.
So Schmuck Schumer can talk without microphones and cameras, who knew?
A posh restaurant and no smart phone video? No security camera video for when the altercation continued outside? Only in New York.
To put this in some perspective, the couple are in their 80s hardly prepared to punch anyone in the snout. An armed society however, is a polite society.
Fascist Schumer needs to have psythotropic medications OR to have his dosage adjusted more frequently.
Althouse wrote: It's almost easy to leap right into Oscar Wilde territory: "Considering the opposition, how was it possible not to vote for a liar?"
Wit is wasted on the weak. It's like performing a Jedi mind trick on an invertebrate.
buwaya said...
Metternich could well have asked "what did he mean by that?"
There is a reason behind everything.
In this case I think there is, as so often, rather more to the story than we know.
One does not go about shouting at very wealthy elderly people in respectable restaurants, not even in New York, nor does one follow them into the street to shout some more.
Even a shameless politician like Schumer lives inside a web of calculation, and there is usually a purpose to every word.
I wonder who else was at Schumers table.
Schumer seems slimy but this does not make sense. I also would like to hear the rest of the story. Not gonna lie, I hope Schumer was drunk, and it is even worse than what has been reported.
Same guy who called a stewardess a bitch. He's just trash.
The Senate rules demand gentlemanly conduct from its members at all times. Schumer should be denounced by every Republican member, making sure the Congressional Record transcribes every proscription in toto.
Someone at this site was holding forth with something funny about "etiquette and civility" the other day ...
Assuming the story itself is true (I have seen no videos), what Schumer did almost amounts to incitement to violence considering the location in which he chose to do it. Would Schumer have done this in, lets say, Lexington, Kentucky? If a crowd had surrounded Ms. Califano and injured her, Schumer would criminally liable.
I would like to believe this story isn't true or is being greatly exaggerated, but if not, Chuck Schumer has displayed what kind of person he really is.
How could he vote for the liar? Because he had only two choices: the liar or the traitor.
Mike Sylwester at 8:46 A.M.
Recently I was asked to comment on a business contract, and I was puzzled by the apparent verb "aloud" which appeared there several times. I'm not a lawyer, so I assumed from the context that there must be some legal term "aloud" which means something like "to express consent explicitly".
I found the contract and found a couple of the passages with the mysterious legal term "to aloud".
-----
... the client should aloud the provider to continue with all active patients ...
... provider will return the referal to the client to aloud the client to restaff the patient.
-----
It's even worse that I remembered. It turns out that "aloud" was a misspelling of "allow", not "allowed".
Isn't it unconstitutional to yell Hitler... I mean, Trump, in a room full of national socialists? I'm surprised there wasn't a conflagration.
there is usually a purpose to every word.
I wonder who else was at Schumers table.
Yes. Still despicable.
In a less smart-alecky vein, this sort of thing is exactly why "voting selfies" are a bad idea. In a few more cycles, the usual suspects will be hounding people "You didn't post a selfie of you voting for Corey Booker (to pull a name out of the hat)!1!!eleventy!!!!". Seems to antithetical to the idea of the secret ballot...
No, thank you.
(oldy moldy: A Soviet citizen is handed a sealed ballot to cast in an election. Overcome by curiousity, he rips open the envelope to see who he's voting for. The guard rushes up: "Comrade! Don't you know this is a secret ballot election!!"
this incident would have been better only if the lady had flicked on her iPhone video camera and captured Schumer's hysterical red face.
This just makes Schumer look violent. A polite person doesn't retaliate against crazy,
Schumer followed her out of the place to the street yelling at her and she expressed regret not replying that Hillary was a liar.
Esprit de l'escalier.
"How could you vote for Trump? He’s a liar!"?
"I voted for you so many times, it doesn't bother me anymore."
Professor, I am baffled that you would take such a position. Perhaps I am missing something here?
Restaurants and other public venues are not places for unwelcome discussions of any kind, much less unwelcome political discussions. This concept of basic civility enures to the benefit of all, regardless of personal belief, or how important you believe your personal belief is.
Maybe next time you are in a restaurant, you can have a persistent evangelist hector you until you leave, so that you can joyously proclaim that restaurants are a perfect place for unwelcome conversations regarding religion? Unwelcome discussions are not made welcome by snappy repartee, either, such as you suggest.
Religion and politics are not polite conversation in public, which is why they should not be broached as topics when in polite and public fellowship.
The Califano's are in their mid 80's. He was Secretary of HEW and managing partner of Dewey Balantine. I am sure that in his prime Mr Califano was more than a match for Schumer. And I am way more impressed by the Dewey Balantine position than a spot in the Cabinet.
There's a plausible universal comeback to any politician who accuses you of anything.
"How much has your net worth increased since you were elected?"
Schumer was likely drunk. That is what they do. Raise money. Run for office. Drink.
I am sure Althouse would be just happy as a clam about someone coming up to her and her husband while they are having a nice quiet dinner and haranguing them in public. Please someone in the Madison area test my theory. I am sure she would just come up with a snappy retort and all would be sweetness and light.
I often enjoy and appreciate your different and insightful takes on things. On this occasion, I cannot begin to agree. If they had been at the same table, talking politics, Schumer would be merely rather rude for following them out onto the street and yelling at her in public.
This is boorish, uncivilized behavior. Like that NYC attorney who harangued Ivanka Trump on the airplane, and arguably worse. Dear G-d, can people go out in public to enjoy a meal, a musical, sit in coach with my 3 kids... without someone intruding and berating me with outrage fueled by assumption? It's a chief reason I don't watch the Oscars.
The day after Obama was re-elected, I walked from commuter parking to the building where my class met, and walked by people wearing "Obama!!!" shirts... and said nothing, even if I was thinking "bl**dy h*ll, spare us the gloating for one day?!?" The last time I picked a political debate with someone in public, I was a zealous, immature undergraduate.
Some pol, maybe it was Tip O'Neil, called him Hamilton Jerkin.
Post a Comment