Russians don't believe it either. Around Moscow and across this vast country, Russians are watching with amazement -- and some in the Kremlin no doubt with delight -- at the full-blown American freak-out over Moscow's role in the U.S. presidential election.The heckling here at Meadhouse was: "Half-blown." (Because Americans who voted for Trump or accept the results of the election are not freaking out.)
They played a clip of Obama saying "Not much happens in Russia without Vladimir Putin," and got a response from Andrei Klimov (the deputy chairman of the Russian senate's foreign affairs committee and close to the Kremlin.):
"Because this is the only explanation of the results which are not so nice for him and the lady Clinton."The Lady Clinton. I love that. Klimov was pushed — "You reject it?" — and he said: "
"Absolutely. It's really, it's American fairy tales; it's American fiction. It is very convenient explanation because in such kind of perceptions, Russia is a threat. Kremlin is evil, all bad boys, they are in Kremlin and their main task is to make some bad things for America."Moran informs us that Russian media is "dominated by Putin's regime and spews propaganda," and that their fake news — as opposed to our fake news — is that "It was an inside job, a leak from Clinton's own staff or the DNC itself." That caught my attention, after the interview, earlier on the show, with Donna Brazile. As I wrote in the previous post, something she said made made it sound like the material was leaked, not hacked.
Moran said Russians don't believe their own media — they know to be skeptical — but that doesn't mean they believe our media: "Even seasoned independent analysts think this scandal is more American hysteria than actual fact." We see a Russian commentator, Mariya Lipman saying:
"So wild allegations. Of course we don't believe them. What happened is an American problem. We in Russia did not invent Donald Trump for you."Very funny.
We get back to Klimov, who says that Russians expected Hillary Clinton to win, and had no reason to interfere, because: "We know well who is Madam Clinton and what is her team." Trump was a big unknown, and there weren't "any real possibilities to think about Trump like a winner."
Finally, Raddatz asked Moran if Russians were worried about Obama, who "has promised" — in other words, threatened — "to retaliate against that hack." Moran said:
You know you don't get the sense that the Russians are very worried about President Obama. There's a sense here that he is a pie-in-the-sky idealist. Somebody said he has too many beautiful ideas in his head. They saw him pull back in Syria and they didn't get a strong response, according to U.S. intelligence agencies, from their initial probes into the DNC. They aren't that worried about an Obama response, it seems.Raddatz came back with a question that made us laugh out loud: "But what if there is some sort of counterattack, counter cyber attack, how do you think they would respond?"
Moran said Putin — "a cautious and savvy player" — would would probably ignore it.
Posts
160 comments:
You do know that a former UK diplomat is saying that he was an intermediary for someone in DNC that provided the leaked emails and that he passed them on to Assange. To me though is that the Emails were real and not fake news. I think that blaming the Russians (even if they did do it) is to make people forget that the Emails were real, and very very damaging. It is also to undermine the Trump administration from the get go.
In Russia, election hacks you.
I used to work with a very charming Russian emigre woman who had a lovely accent. She would say "Please don't ask me to say 'Moose and Squirrel'". So saying, of course, she had to say 'Moose and Squirrel'. Those devious Russians !
"You know you don't get the sense that the Russians are very worried about President Obama. There's a sense here that he is a pie-in-the-sky idealist. Somebody said he has too many beautiful ideas in his head. They saw him pull back in Syria and they didn't get a strong response, according to U.S. intelligence agencies, from their initial probes into the DNC. They aren't that worried about an Obama response, it seems."
Sums it up..........
Merry Christmas to Russia, they got their useful idiot, Trump.
To answer Chris Wallace's question to Reince Priebus this morning: No, I do not believe a word John Brennan says, and I will believe the intelligence agencies' "consensus of opinion" when I either see them show up on the Hill and so state on camera, or furnish a written statement signed by the heads of the majority of those 17 agencies.
Interesting. I wondered about the Russian perspective, speculating they would find everything amusing. If the e-mails are revealed to be DNC leaks it should prove to be a party crash with the severity of Watergate. Yet even saying that, it just proves to be federal politics demanding to be the focal point of the nation. Whatever happen to the idea of effective, confident, and strong leadership being silent and invisible?
KEEL MOOSE.
"In an op-ed in Friday’s Boston Globe (www.bostonglobe.com/...), former Assistant Secretary of State and Ambassador to the Czech Republic John Shattuck details how Trump’s refusal to acknowledge the intelligence consensus that Russia hacked the election in his favor is indicative of, or at least casts the reasonable presumption of treason on his part. He lays out the legal framework for Trump having committed treason or misprision of treason. After recapping the suspicious circumstances of Trump, his family's and his advisers’ ties to Putin and Russia, Shattuck calls for Trump to acknowledge the intelligence consensus:
"In light of these circumstances, Trump should seek to clear the air by endorsing the proposed investigation of the Russian hacking scandal. For him to continue to deny Russia’s cyberattack and resist the investigation invites a specter of treason to hover over the president-elect.""
Merry Christmas to Russia, they got their useful idiot, Trump.
Well, they found Obama pretty useful.
This "Russia did it" crap is entirely about inventing a plausible excuse so that Bill and Hill can delay indefinitely the reimbursement of hundreds of millions of illegal foreign money funneled into her campaign coffers. They admit to a warchest of over a billion dollars, but the actual cache was nearer 1.5 billion, a third of that foreign and unlawful.
Unknown: "Merry Christmas to Russia, they got their useful idiot, Trump."
Lol
Russia got their uranium, vastly expanded influence in the Middle East, the Crimea, and lots of other gifts from the combined ignorance and corruption of Hillary & Obumbler, and the lefties are pitching fits because these delicate and adolescent snowflakes cannot accept reality.
It has always been thus with the left.
Did Martha cry again today like on election night? She is the oldest living bulimic.
I'm waiting for a coherent theory of what exactly Russia was doing during elections. Right now it's just a sore-loser bag of items without any effort to remove contradictions with bottom-line being "Trump bad".
Have Russians tried:
A) to hurt Hillary's chances
B) to elect Trump
if A), then when have they started? Primaries seem like a good time to eliminate Hillary. Did they help Bernie, then? Would they support any R candidate, not Trump only, if their main objective was to eliminate Hillary?
if B) when has it started? Before Trump announced he ran (Manchurian theory)? During primaries? After primaries?
Also, if Russians interfered with elections, is it the first time? Whom they tried to get elected before?
Or, maybe it was just an experiment to what extent they can influence the elections, without any other particular objective?
To what extent were they successful, given Trump's victory makes sense just looking at his message, how/where he campaigned, how/where Hillary didn't campaign, and which states and voters he managed to win.
The heckling here at Meadhouse was: "Half-blown."
Half-assed, as well.
"their fake news — as opposed to our fake news — is that "It was an inside job, a leak from Clinton's own staff or the DNC itself."
Probably the true story.
Idiots like Unknown/Inga are still trying to whip up hysteria.
"Tell Vladimir that, after the election, I'll have more flexibility."
Tell me who said that, Inga.
the only truth here is " Russia is a threat. Kremlin is evil, all bad boys, they are in Kremlin and their main task is to make some bad things for America."
what will it take for americans outside the orbit of trump to get this?
the only thing left to discover is that trumps people were in touch with putins guys and acquiesced to this taking place... would HRC have done that? i know we all hate her but if you would believe this spokesperson for putin well, i'm gobsmacked... (sorry i dont get to use that much in conversation)
American elections are fascinating to watch, but I do not think "the Russians" would want to interfere for fear that anything they did would backfire and anyway could not possibly improve on what the Americans were doing themselves - from the Russian point of view, that is.
"Moran said Putin — "a cautious and savvy player" — would would probably ignore it."
-- Well, we see how that worked for Obama.
"To me though is that the Emails were real and not fake news. I think that blaming the Russians (even if they did do it) is to make people forget that the Emails were real, and very very damaging."
-- The emails were most damaging to Clinton with her further left wing base. Pretty much nothing in the email dumps I've heard/read is a surprise to me as a moderate Republican. It was like: "Well, of COURSE they think/said that." The corruption though was a smack in the face to the good government types on the left/farther left Democrat allies who were Clinton agnostic.
"Merry Christmas to Russia, they got their useful idiot, Trump."
Did Trump give them a nice, big, shiny Reset Button and I missed it?
"Merry Christmas to Russia, they got their useful idiot, Trump."
-- If I were Russia, I'd've gone with the useful idiot who had already handed over priceless uranium and influence over the guy who wants to force NATO members to start standing up for themselves some.
I am concerned that the Russians are hacking our computer systems. I would also be concerned if the Chinese were hacking our computer systems, or if the French were hacking our computer systems, or if the Vatican was hacking our computer systems, or if Joe who lives in his parents' basement down the street were hacking our computer systems. Our computer systems should not be easy to hack. That said, I expect that people, both foreign and domestic, will try to hack our computer systems and will occasionally succeed. This is unfortunate.
As to Russian involvement of our election, as long as they are not hacking the voting itself, are not spreading falsehoods as news (we have our media for that), and not breaking any laws, I don't really care. Again, the current story is someone hacked/leaked emails from Hillary Clinton, the DNC, and others. At the moment, there is no denial that the emails are real. Oh well.
Right now I am more concerned with the Left basically begging for a civil war without seeming to realize that is where their demands lead. Vicious and stupid are a terrible combination.
With this Russia stuff the MSM has completely discredited itself. Putin didn't prevent Hillary from appearing in Madison and buying some commercials. Clinton spent more on Omaha media chasing one Electoral College vote than in MI and WI.
"what will it take for americans outside the orbit of trump to get this?"
Maybe some evidence ? So far, all I see is hysteria and bad faith. Come on.
Your candidate is a terrible retail politician. The first job Bill gave her was healthcare and she screwed that up so badly he lost both houses of Congress in 1994.
Bill is a good politician. I have read that he wanted her to do more in the Midwest. She ignored him.
Try to understand what happened.
Although I must say the Democrats are giving me hope they will be in the wilderness for decades like Labor was after "The Longest Suicide Note in History" before Blair rescued them,.
GWash said...
the only thing left to discover is that trumps people were in touch with putins guys and acquiesced to this taking place... would HRC have done that?
John Podesta clicked on a Phishing link and didn't even reset his password after that. There are grade school kids sending those out now. He was a fucking idiot and everyone in the world except leftists know it. This wasn't some Russian master plan. The Clinton team was full of blithering idiots that couldn't grasp the most basic information protection concepts.
You people are not only dishonest, you are stupid if you think people are going to believe you. Please keep yelling "The Russians are Coming!" It only cements how despicable you are.
I predict we all will find out about the collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia before too long. Patience.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/dec/18/russia-love-was-trump-campaign-touch-foreign-
""Russian diplomats have said post-election that they were talking to the Trump campaign," Podesta said. "Roger Stone (a Trump adviser) in August foreshadowed the fact that they had hacked my emails and those would be forthcoming when he said he was in touch with Wikileaks. Carter Page, one of Trump’s foreign policy advisers, went to Russia before the Republican convention and met with a person in the Russian hierarchy who was responsible for collecting intelligence."
We're not putting Podesta's claim on the Truth-O-Meter because there are varying reports of who spoke with whom, and beyond that, a lot of speculation. But Russian officials have said members of the Trump camp maintained contact with Russia, though there are discrepancies in their statements and a denial from the Trump campaign.
In an interview with the state-run news agency, Interfax, Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei A. Ryabkov said "there were contacts" with Trump’s "entourage" throughout the election, according to multiple translations of the interview. "I cannot say that all of them, but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives."
But the Trump campaign denied that this ever happened, and the Foreign Ministry clarified to the New York Times that Ryabkov meant Russian officials had met with Trump’s political allies and supporters, not his campaign staff directly.
Ryabkov told Bloomberg that the Russian embassy held meetings with the Trump camp on a "sufficient, responsible level" as part of "routine, everyday work." Ryabkov said the Russian embassy also had "sporadic" contact with the Clinton team, though it was "not always productive," according to Bloomberg. An unnamed Russian official said to CNN that Clinton team members visited Moscow unofficially and held meetings with government officials.
Meanwhile Dmitry Peskov, a spokesman for Vladimir Putin, told the Associated Press on the same day that Russian experts on the United States and international affairs had contacts with both the Clinton and Trump camps."
achilles, just wait to see what happens now that the donald is in charge... will there be a retaliation? or will old friends just shake hands and make a deal?.. so much winning and so much denial coming trump.. it would be nice for him to read the intelligence before reacting or just read the intelligence ... maybe someone could tweet it to him so he is at least aware of what is going on in the world that he will be responsible for other than his business interests... we will you well mr president..
I predict we all will find out about the collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia before too long.
Can we expect more accuracy in this latest prognostication of yours than has lately been the case?
Unknown said...
Merry Christmas to Russia, they got their useful idiot, Trump.
Remember right before the election they caught Trump telling Russia he would have more flexibility?
Oh that's right it was Obama that said that. You people are disgusting. You flushed your souls down a toilet when you supported Hillary Clinton and you are willing to pedal any bullshit story to undermine the legally elected president and tear this country down.
Keep it up. Please keep pushing. You are all vermin that should move to any other country and forced to stop trying to destroy this one.
I am concerned that the Russians are hacking our computer systems. I would also be concerned if the Chinese were hacking our computer systems, or if the French were hacking our computer systems, or if the Vatican was hacking our computer systems, or if Joe who lives in his parents' basement down the street were hacking our computer systems.
@Static Ping, you're at least 20 years too late. Go read the three-part Fortune article on the SONY hack. And that's small potatoes next to what goes on in the spy versus spy world. Everybody is hacking everybody, and has been for years. Nothing you put on your computer is totally safe from hacking, and women who download nude selfies on their computers are begging teenaged boys to drool and masturbate over them. Deal with it.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/18/trump-team-collusion-with-russia-an-open-question-says-clinton-aide.html
"Dear Leader McConnell:
For years, foreign adversaries have directed cyberattacks at America's physical, economic, and military infrastructure, while stealing our intellectual property. Now our democratic institutions and processes have been targeted. Recent reports of Russian interference in our election should alarm every American. Cybersecurity is the ultimate cross-jurisdictional challenge, and we must take a comprehensive approach to meet this challenge effectively. We therefore would ask for your support in establishing a temporary Select Committee on Cyber.
The Congress's oversight committees have worked diligently to address the complex challenge of cybersecurity, but recent events show that more must be done. Cyber cuts across and involves multiple committees of jurisdiction, including the Committees on Intelligence, Armed Services, Foreign Relations, Commerce, Judiciary, and Homeland Security and Government Affairs. Despite the good work that these and other committees have done on their own, cyber is the rare kind of all-encompassing challenge for which the Congress's jurisdictional boundaries are an impediment to sufficient oversight and legislative action. Only a select committee that is time-limited, cross-jurisdictional, and purpose-driven can address the challenge of cyber.
Such a select committee must focus on two critical tasks. First, it must conduct a comprehensive investigation of Russian interference in our recent elections and inform the public as much as possible, while protecting classified information, about the facts of the case and what actions could reasonably have been taken across the federal government to deter or defend against this interference. Second, and more broadly, a select committee must tackle the issue of cyber in its entirety and develop comprehensive recommendations and, as necessary, new legislation to modernize our nation's laws, governmental organization, and related practices to meet this challenge. Upon completion of these tasks, this select committee could be disestablished.
We share your respect for, and deference to, the regular order of the Senate, and we recognize that this is an extraordinary request. However, we believe it is justified by the extraordinary scope and scale of the cyber problem. Democrats and Republicans must work together, and across the jurisdictional lines of the Congress, to address this unique challenge. We look forward to working with you on this matter as the Senate works through the organizing resolution for the 115th Congress."
GWash said...
achilles, just wait to see what happens now that the donald is in charge... will there be a retaliation? or will old friends just shake hands and make a deal?.. so much winning and so much denial coming trump.. it would be nice for him to read the intelligence before reacting or just read the intelligence ... maybe someone could tweet it to him so he is at least aware of what is going on in the world that he will be responsible for other than his business interests... we will you well mr president..
You are a blathering fool. You have no soul. Nobody cares what you people say and only that your motivations are to undermine this country and the freedoms of it's people.
There is zero evidence that Russia tried to influence the election for Trump.
The rest of your post is shit you people are making up. Please leave this country. You are an enemy of freedom.
achilles lol.. how old are you?
JournoLists have been assigned janitorial work since Deep Plunger overflowed Clinton’s WaterCloset revealing that the DNC is rabidly Pro-Choice.
Unknown said...
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/18/trump-team-collusion-with-russia-an-open-question-says-clinton-aide.html
>a bunch of crap a bitter Clinton aide anonymously posted after the failed to get their corrupt disgusting witch elected.
Nothing in that post was useful except to give soulless wretches like yourself something to cling to when you wish you had your souls back.
please leave this country.. that smells like freedom to me... read the constitution take a course in US history.. get back on your meds...
"Keep it up. Please keep pushing. You are all vermin that should move to any other country and forced to stop trying to destroy this one."
Psycho. Who do you think you are? The keeper of the flame?
GWash said...
achilles lol.. how old are you?
Over 40 years old. 2 degrees. Many Jobs. 4 deployments. 3 companies. A soul.
Do you feel dirty when you post this obvious garbage? God it must suck to have absolutely no useful principles except a lust for power to cling to.
mike s. this is a rerun... trump could do that right now if he wanted... why doesn't he?
watch your wallets... there's a grifter in chief coming soon ...
On the day after his inauguration, President Trump should inform the public about the "Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security" published on October 7, 2016, by:
1) Department of Homeland Security,
2) Director of National Intelligence
[end of list]
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national
-----------
President should inform the public how many of our 17 intelligence agencies ....
* were asked to provide comments and concurrence to that "joint statement"
* concurred with the "joint statement"
* declined to concur with the "joint statement".
And then President Trump should publicly fire Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.
"a former UK diplomat is saying that he was an intermediary for someone in DNC that provided the leaked emails"
His name is Craig Murray, and he describes the Democrat talking points as a blatant lie.
How many millions did Trump take from the Russians before doing them two huge favors? Oh wait, that was Hillary.
GWash: "what will it take for americans outside the orbit of trump to get this"
Whoa, looks like someone here needs to back off their 80's foreign policy ideas!
And remember, if you believe that Russia is a significant geo-political adversary then you are in disagreement with the ever-vacationing obambi. And that makes you a racist, straight up.
It's very clear from the types of comments we see here from the obambi voice-actuated automatons as well as the talking points being put forth by the Journolist and paid hacks that the entire intent now is to take the obvious results from 8 years of feckless obambi foreign policy and pretend the obambi administration never happened and it's all on Trump.
Its certainly an interesting take that 8 years of obambi failed foreign policy never happened.
Let's see how long our resident marxists can keep it up.
Grifter in chief? Lol, the Clintons are now worth 300 million dollars. please point to any job other than selling access either of them ever held.
I wonder if Unknown can see Russia from her house.
achilles, again lol... you dont intimidate me... you may be suffering from delusions... get a grip, we're supposed to be on the same team... you need to remain skeptical of his orangeness because he could care less about you and will redeploy you to protect trump tower abu dhabai ... i hope your family is ok with that.. congrats on having a soul.. if you were a christian too that would be great.. the rhetoric, vitriol don't jive with your self description..
GWash said...
please leave this country.. that smells like freedom to me... read the constitution take a course in US history.. get back on your meds...
It is cute to watch a supporter of Obama and Clinton pretend they give a crap about the freedom of others.
Putin is a cagey and cautious strong thug leading the country with a third of the earth's natural resources and occupying a perfect strategic location. They have it all, except for a warm water Navy port...oh yeah, that is what Crimea and Syria were taken to insure.
And they also need Trump Towers; one in Moscow where Putin lives now, and one in St Petersberg where Putin comes from.
Ivan-ka is a key player. Having Slovenian Mothers come in handy.
Prediction: Raddatz will go the way of Crowley Welcome absence - two ugly(worse kind - physical and character) women.Russian papers under Putin control, American papers under democrat party control.
Framing, framing.......framing.
Deplorables' Razor - Never attribute to Putin what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
"The Clinton team was full of blithering idiots that couldn't grasp the most basic information protection concepts. "
The hysteria seems to be building, maybe because the electoral college session tomorrow.
I try to respond to Gwash with some questions and we get this bullshit.
please leave this country.. that smells like freedom to me... read the constitution take a course in US history.. get back on your meds...
Do you have any idea how stupid this sounds ? You are as bad as Inga.
This hysteria is going to result in something serious if it doesn't let up. Some guy set himself on fire the other day.
I would not be surprised to see an assassination attempt. You people need to calm down.
Here's reading material for you.
But the problem is the one-eyed following the blind: these self-described members of the “intelligentsia” can’t find a coconut in Coconut Island, meaning they aren’t intelligent enough to define intelligence hence fall into circularities — but their main skill is capacity to pass exams written by people like them. With psychology papers replicating less than 40%, dietary advice reversing after 30 years of fatphobia, macroeconomic analysis working worse than astrology, the appointment of Bernanke who was less than clueless of the risks, and pharmaceutical trials replicating at best only 1/3 of the time, people are perfectly entitled to rely on their own ancestral instinct and listen to their grandmothers (or Montaigne and such filtered classical knowledge) with a better track record than these policymaking goons.
Read the whole thing.You might learn something.
tim in vermont: "Grifter in chief? Lol, the Clintons are now worth 300 million dollars."
The CGI/money-laundering & payoff operation kept the Clinton political operatives gainfully "employed" on behalf of "charity" and this operation has had billions funneled thru it.
Billions.
All on the up and up of course.
Look, GWash/Unknown are just very upset that Hillary will not be able to spend the next 4 years openly selling US policy to the highest bidder.
After all, Hillary has had to maintain her sham marriage and settle for trysts with some of the local dem "talent" for these last decades so, really, hasn't she earned the right to continue selling America for personal gain?
Democrats hide behind lies &/or diversions to the truth. It's what they do.
Cannot possible be that Hillary was a crooked liar... nope. Democrats just need to lie harder and bigger.
Pie-in-the-sky idealist is a great description for Obama, and for W. They were realistic to an extent, but too idealistic. Not as bad as Merkel, but bad by American standards. Hopefully Trump will be more realistic than idealistic.
the idea that the Russians "hacked" the American [election?]
There's plenty of fake news about "hacked the election", but nobody hacked the election.
Other than the illegal (no doubt mostly Clinton) voters, there are no accusations of vote tampering or hacking any election system. Whoever, Roosky or not, released the emails which showed how Clinton made her sausage did a public service, but what they didn't do was "hack the election".
drago.. trump $0 dollars paid in tax, somehow now worth billions how does that compute .. tax payers have bailed him out of bankrupcy multiple times... where is the tax return?
i'm not a fan of HRC, did not vote for her but her taxes and the declarations of the clinton foundation are public record if anyone wanted to do the research...
mike k. if i sound stupid sorry, but i'm only responding to stupid comments like leave the country... i'm allowed to express my opinion until they come to take me away or althouse blocks me... : )))
It's important to just recycle what the politicians say as if that constitutes the only evidence, and to ignore the actual evidence of what occurred and the credibility of of those closest to the investigation. I'm really glad I can come to the Althouse blog to hear the political spin on a national security issue; that's important. You should never strive for objectivity or fact when it comes to these things. The important thing is how to spin it politically. That's a greater concern than getting to the bottom of what happened apart from statements and the national security aspect of it.
So how much is Trump/Putin paying the blog?
Look, GWash/Unknown are just very upset that Hillary will not be able to spend the next 4 years openly selling US policy to the highest bidder.
What justifies the smug attitude here? Trump is doing the exact same thing. You don't get to gloat over the reasons for voting against someone if the guy you vote for to do it is a clone of all her worst traits.
After all, Hillary has had to maintain her sham marriage and settle for trysts with some of the local dem "talent" for these last decades so, really, hasn't she earned the right to continue selling America for personal gain?
At some point, it may dawn on you that running against the candidate you already defeated doesn't make the case for Trump and all his own political abominations at all.
The more you run against Hillary, post-election loss for her, the more I know you're digging in for huge losses in 2020 if not 2018. If not a good, old-fashioned impeachment hearing before then.
Leave the spinning to the actual politicians. They're the ones who do it incompetently enough to not ruin the republic.
@Quaestor said...
KEEL MOOSE.
Keel Moose and Squirrel
Democrats hide behind lies &/or diversions to the truth. It's what they do.
You go ahead and make the case for Trump then. Go on. Tell us what he's doing differently than Hillary.
The music's the same, the players are different. Trump built a tunnel from that swamp and drained it to go right into his cabinet.
Well, at least Hillary didn't lie and say she was going to drain the swamp that Trump seems to live in. But I'm glad I have you here, along with everyone else, to not make the case for him. It looks like he was a liar all along.
I sure hope a disastrous administration on his part makes you feel better about Hillary not winning, April.
Ignore Assange who says - 'It's not the Russians you dopes.'
R & B -
The subject here is that the Democrat lie machine doubles down on lies when backed into corners.
You didn't build that. - Oh democrats - be proud! you DID build that big lie and the lie produced the schadenfreude.
Yeah R & B - Trump needs to drain the swamp. Sadly, Pelosi is down at the bottom plugging up the drain.
1. What's so wrong if Russia or any country picks sides in an American election? Doesn't everyone do that? It's called acting in your best interests.
2. Are we to believe that we don't hack into emails of our adversaries and our friends? Isn't that called intelligence work; also known as acting in your best interests.
3. Given that everyone does it, or at least tries to, the proper focus should be on the content of the "stolen" emails, information that voters can and should use to choose the candidate most likely to act in their best interests.
4. It seems pretty silly to threaten retaliation when we have done pretty much the same, one would hope.
this is so hideous, so embarrassing, I am astounded at the petulance of our Overseers, the chattering class.
You are elevating Putin beyond his dreams, surely they are all laughing at you/us.
get a grip. grow up, like the rest of us had to when the One was elected. take a pill. Take a break. Take fifteen minutes and just breathe.
You guys have looked askance at the corruption of one of our two national political parties for years, and its corruption of the entire government complex. The people are not blind to that.
With the exception of one state's totals, the people absolutely voted Trump in.
Please, stand down and reconsider your assumptions. Trump is not a racist. Trump is not a Hitler. And the people that voted for him are not morons, racists or misinformed.
You may be, though, if you are keeping this nonsense up.
Godspeed, America
"Tell us what he's doing differently than Hillary."
Hillary has not been elected, R&B. But howzabout selecting conservatives to head federal agencies?
"Well, at least Hillary didn't lie and say she was going to drain the swamp that Trump seems to live in."
Which government bureaucrats or politicians has Trump appointed to his cabinet? Bannon? Mnunchin? Tillerson? Carson?
The person Carson is replacing at HUD is libtard racial justice maniac Julian Castro (Castro's mother was one of the founders of La Raza). Castro's latest innovation was to threaten landlords who discriminated against ex cons -- because honest poor renters must be forced to live among ex cons or compete with them on even ground for four walls and a roof. Because Justice!
In August, Politico published a lit of probable Hillary appointees:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/insiders-game-out-clintons-cabinet-226599
They are all holdovers from Obama or Clinton retreads. Virtually none of them has a home address outside of the DC area. Except for Podesta. I think he lives in Cali, but I am not sure.
Until an actual source comes forward, I'm going to maintain that the fact that all the forensics points to the Russians is dispositive.
Assange can no longer afford to be so shadowy. He wants to directly influence American politics - he should stand up and try being as transparent as he claims that the politicians he hates so much aren't.
And where is Trump's transparency? What did these cabinet picks promise him in order to get in? They're horrible. Worse than picks that Hillary would have made. Much, much worse.
Rhythm and Balls said...
So how much is Trump/Putin paying the blog?
This is a troll right? You don't actually believe the Russian Government itself actively tried to help Trump?
Podesta got "hacked" by a phish mail because he clicked on the link. That limits the number of possible culprits to a gazillion or so people who are capable of that level of sophistication. The DNC got "hacked" by a disgruntled Bernie supporter who leaked the party's dirty laundry after they fucked Bernie over in the primary.
None of this is rocket science. These people were fucking idiots. So are their supporters.
Lewis Wetzel wrote: Castro's latest innovation was to threaten landlords who discriminated against ex cons -- because honest poor renters must be forced to live among ex cons or compete with them on even ground for four walls and a roof. Because Justice!
Recall that R&B was for giving the vote to felons even while still in prison!
Trump’s refusal to acknowledge the intelligence consensus that Russia hacked the election in his favor is indicative of, or at least casts the reasonable presumption of treason on his part.
Why was questioning intel on this treason but not questioning them on, say, WMD is not? I find it odd that questioning an "opinion" with few real names or proof behind it equal "Treason".
http://www.politifact.c
Cut it off there because nothing more needs to be said.
""Russian diplomats have said post-election that they were talking to the Trump campaign," Podesta said.
I notice they left out "Podesta, lobbyist for Russia's biggest bank"
Yeah R & B - Trump needs to drain the swamp. Sadly, Pelosi is down at the bottom plugging up the drain.
Did Pelosi make him choose.... Rex Tiller?
Did Pelosi make him choose... Steve Bannon? (A different swamp than the usual one - but a swamp nonetheless).
Did Pelosi make him choose... Jefferson Session? Ben Carson? (A creationist in charge of education - LOL!!!!) Scott Pruitt?
Imagine. A fossil fuel shill at EPA. Why don't they just rename it the "Environmental Destruction Agency?" Because they sure care more about a certain industry than the environment. It's outright corruption.
Watch what happens to Colorado's revenues when Jefferson Sessions goes after your newest industry. Yep. A guy who only turned against the KKK because he thought too many of them smoked dope. What a wonderful nomination.
R& B - Hillary not winning means America already won.
Rhythm and Balls said...
Until an actual source comes forward, I'm going to maintain that the fact that all the forensics points to the Russians is dispositive.
We caught the hackers. The evidence is dispositive.
Assange can no longer afford to be so shadowy. He wants to directly influence American politics - he should stand up and try being as transparent as he claims that the politicians he hates so much aren't.
When he is leaking US military secrets A-OK. When he is rubbing democrats noses in their own corruption and filth... TRANSPARENCY PLEASE. If Clinton detractors didn't have such a habit of dying I might agree with you.
And where is Trump's transparency? What did these cabinet picks promise him in order to get in? They're horrible. Worse than picks that Hillary would have made. Much, much worse.
This is weak fail sauce. Nobody can point to any rhyme or reason except every person picked so far has a long record of success in their area and wants to actually reform the department they were put in charge of.
This is a troll right? You don't actually believe the Russian Government itself actively tried to help Trump?
Podesta got "hacked" by a phish mail because he clicked on the link. That limits the number of possible culprits to a gazillion or so people who are capable of that level of sophistication. The DNC got "hacked" by a disgruntled Bernie supporter who leaked the party's dirty laundry after they fucked Bernie over in the primary.
None of this is rocket science. These people were fucking idiots. So are their supporters.
Yes, the DNC are idiots. No, Trump and Putin don't have a healthy distrust of each other, though. They love each other.
Go ahead, hate the NYT. I do. And then show me some better reporting on the actual forensics of the case than this. It's not political or media-managed. This seems to be what the intelligence agencies have a consensus around.
You know, the same spy agency that told everyone how suspect Hillary was on emails just a few days before everyone voted.
Sessions is fantastic. Who do you think he was going to pick, some radical politicized prog like the past 2 hacks?
Forget it.
Rex Tillerson might be just fine. Trump's only really lousy pick so far is his pick for Labor.
Your attacks on Sessions are leftist bullshit and lies.
I no longer respond to R&B an I should give up on Gwash.
Inga, of course is a loon.
I just worry that hese crazy Democrats are going to incite some psycho.
They accused Palin of doing it but this is much worse than that ginned up pseudoscandal about Palin and her survey marks they thought were bullseyes.
R& B - Hillary not winning means America already won.
Talk about a single-issue voter. Then get the hell out of the way while we take out Trump. Yes, I understand all you cared about was Stalin. Now we're going after Hitler. Some of us have a job to do and more to care about then just what happens every four years. What a lackey you are. Now with the election over it appears you're one of the people who will let him gun people down on Fifth Avenue in broad daylight, like he said. You really are ok with any kind of corruption as long as it's not the Clintons. Pathetic.
R&B ... Then get the hell out of the way while we take out Trump.
You sound like a bitter fascist.
Sessions is fantastic. Who do you think he was going to pick, some radical politicized prog like the past 2 hacks?
A guy who wants to shut down Colorado's newest profitable industries, because he thinks it's really important for the federal government to police what's inside your body. Yep, that's my definition of an enforcer of liberty.
A guy who couldn't get nominated to the federal bench under Reagan in 1986 due to his hatred of MLK's groups.
I'm sure after there his record only gets better. Yep, you wouldn't be a right-winger if people couldn't get you to vote against your own interests.
But go ahead and fill me in on what makes him "fantastic". Or whatever Trump hyperbolic adjective you want to use to describe him.
R & B - I prefer to jump all over Trump after he's actually sworn in and has a chance to make some of theseheavy duty mistakes.
Right now he has campaign promises to keep. All of which will send you into a profanity-laced mind-explosion.
You seem sad your dirty liar queen actually lost. You say you didn't approve of her, but deep down you wanted her to win because "Single Payer" and crap. amirite?
She was a liar and a fraud and a crook, but on the D-side and that's all that counts.
Is this about pot?
Michael K, are you once again speaking of Inga who resides in your poor senile brain? You know, there are meds to stave off the ravages of dementia.
No one cared in 2014, why should they care now?
Rhythm and Balls said...
Did Pelosi make him choose.... Rex Tiller?
What specificlly is wrong with this pick? By all information out there this guy has a ton of experience negotiating in foreign countries with actual consequences and standards on the results he produced.
Did Pelosi make him choose... Steve Bannon? (A different swamp than the usual one - but a swamp nonetheless).
What swamp might that be? The one in the feverish minds of leftist imaginations?
Did Pelosi make him choose... Jefferson Session? Ben Carson? (A creationist in charge of education - LOL!!!!) Scott Pruitt?
Carson is HUD not education. DeVos is in charge of ed.
"DeVos is part of a wealthy and influential family of Republican donors who held back their donations for much of Trump’s campaign."
Not exactly a crony. Like like Trump actually wants to get something done here.
Imagine. A fossil fuel shill at EPA. Why don't they just rename it the "Environmental Destruction Agency?" Because they sure care more about a certain industry than the environment. It's outright corruption.
Actually he is a lawyer/attorney general and his primary contribution so far was to stop the EPA from making up unlawful shit.
Watch what happens to Colorado's revenues when Jefferson Sessions goes after your newest industry. Yep. A guy who only turned against the KKK because he thought too many of them smoked dope. What a wonderful nomination.
To be honest it is time for marijuana to go back underground. Letting the state in was a mistake.
You sound like a bitter fascist.
Ha hahahaha. The GOP spent an entire eight years bogging down the Clinton administrations with hearing, after hearing, after hearing, after hearing. Investigation after investigation. And then what did they find out? Something about a blow job. The American people didn't care.
Trump's ignorance and apathy on basic conflict of interest issues and the emoluments clause makes Whitewater looks like marbles. He's going down. He will turn around or he's going down. Being Wall Street's bat-boy is not what he promised. The Midwest states that voted for him on that basis will back us up once they see what he's going to do to them economically. Just you wait.
He's already made heavy duty mistakes. Ms.Apple thinks they're just oopsies.
Right now he has campaign promises to keep.
He has already broken them. Don't ask me. Ask Sarah Palin.
You're not keeping up. He bribed Carrier to stay. Picking winners and losers in the marketplace.
Needs to go. Yep, it's already this soon and he's already proved that he knows how to do nothing other than fail miserably.
Which any look at his failed business record and four bankruptcies was the only likely outcome.
He's selling you actual Kool-Aid. Trump Steak-Aid.
Trump is going down. He'll be lucky to evade charges of treason.
There is no way the Russians were trying to get Trump elected - their worst problem is an energy-dependent (oil and gas) economy. Trump's energy agenda is a direct threat to them.
No way.
So I am not just skeptical, but rather incredulous. My current guess, after reading the transcript of Obama's press conference, is that the Russian stuff was started to help Clinton, and then the administration got caught up in its own lies. Obama was trying to walk back out of that without admitting much, since it has become such a furor on the left and there are multiple demands for details.
To be honest it is time for marijuana to go back underground. Letting the state in was a mistake.
No it wasn't. Go police your own lifestyle before intruding on anyone else's. This is Prohibition all over again. The Drug War was a disaster. And a failure. And it killed people and incarcerated millions and decimated economies and communities. Keep the federal government out of its obsession with this non-lethal substance whose only "danger" it poses is getting people to question its arbitrary authority over their lives.
What won't you people twist and spindle to make yourselves feel better for voting in a traitor?
No, no, it wasn't Boris and Natasha! It was the Brits!
"British activists ‘helped Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton’ with propaganda site"
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/744974/British-far-right-activist-help-Trump-beat-Clinton-US-election-victory-Facebook
Rhythm and Balls said...
Yes, the DNC are idiots. No, Trump and Putin don't have a healthy distrust of each other, though. They love each other.
Based off of leftist fantasy. We had far more evidence that Obama was working with Putin and on friendly terms him than we do with Trump. This line of reasoning has zero intellectual honesty or credibility.
Go ahead, hate the NYT. I do. And then show me some better reporting on the actual forensics of the case than this. It's not political or media-managed. This seems to be what the intelligence agencies have a consensus around.
The same intelligence agencies that said there were WMD's in Iraq right? There were WMD's in Iraq but that is beside the point. The point is all of the people jumping on these "intelligence reports" have been calling these agencies liars for over a decade now.
It s also very interesting that these "intelligence agency reports" were leaked to the press but the intelligence agencies themselves refuse to brief the appropriate congressional committees on actual findings.
The swamp critters in DC, who voted 93% clinton 4% trump, are just being dishonest as usual.
Carson is HUD not education.
Sorry, it's hard to keep up. One barely qualified nominee after another. Who was that Arabian Horse Association guy that W. got to run FEMA? Trump doesn't have a clue and is just staffing with former opponents for favors. He couldn't even get someone as decent and unfying as Giuliani for State.
Total fail.
The Clintons do spend a lot of time in congressional hearings. Perhaps they should stop doing so much questionable, immoral and illegal stuff? Nah - they are the Clintons! Above the law! 250 million, baby!
who cares about a blow job. there are women to rape!
"This post originally appeared at Jewish Journal.
http://billmoyers.com/story/none-dare-call-treason/
In 1964, when Barry Goldwater ran against Lyndon Johnson, a man named John A. Stormer self-published a book called None Dare Call It Treason. It accused America’s left-leaning elites of paving the way for a Soviet victory in the Cold War. The book sold 7 million copies, but Johnson crushed Goldwater in the election.
Now that the CIA has determined that the Russians intervened in the presidential election to help Trump win, the Cold War politics of left and right have been flipped. If Stormer rewrote his book for 2016, its thesis might go like this:
Beware of Donald Trump. Witlessly or willfully, he’s doing the Kremlin’s bidding. Anyone who enables him — on his payroll or in the press, by sucking up or by silence, out of good will or cowardice — is Vladimir Putin’s useful idiot. This is a national emergency, and treating it like normal is criminally negligent of our duty to American democracy."
Trump as traitor: I can just imagine the reaction from the Tower penthouse. Lying media. Paranoid hyperbole. Partisan libel. Sour grapes. A pathetic bid for clicks. A desperate assault on the will of the people. Sad! (Note to the tweeter-in-chief: You’re welcome.)
LOL! Trump is going down! Inga hath spoken. The losers on the left are already whittlling his coffin. or lynching his effigy.
You go grrrl.
The same intelligence agencies that said there were WMD's in Iraq right?
Show me what facts you want to refer to for the forensics of the hack.
Go on. What country did it originate in? What times? What software apps were used and how sophisticated were they? Who had the expertise for what was done.
Give me a ballpark figure.
Basically, just tell me anything to convince me that you're not just picking and choosing the reporting you like best.
Rhythm and Balls said...
No it wasn't. Go police your own lifestyle before intruding on anyone else's. This is Prohibition all over again. The Drug War was a disaster. And a failure. And it killed people and incarcerated millions and decimated economies and communities. Keep the federal government out of its obsession with this non-lethal substance whose only "danger" it poses is getting people to question its arbitrary authority over their lives.
No shit sherlock. I had one of the first 10 producer/processors licensed in Washington State and had been growing medical for years before that. Patients got better product cheaper and I got to keep money when it was "illegal." It should be decriminalized, not regulated and turned into a government protection racket.
LOL! Trump is going down! Inga hath spoken. The losers on the left are already whittlling his coffin. or lynching his effigy.
WHat do you care? CLinton's not the president so your job here is done, by your own admission.
You admit that's all you cared about. Now please move out of the way. You didn't like Trump either. You got what you want, now go.
Leave the country to the people who care about it.
It should be decriminalized, not regulated and turned into a government protection racket.
Good luck getting April Apple's "fantastic" friend Jefferson Sessions to agree.
The only thing that keeps the government out of it is the MOU issued by Justice when Holder was there in 2009. It's basically a non-interference issue. Your social conservatives have no middle ground stance on this, no "decriminilization." They don't know the meaning of the word. It will go back to being a gang enterprise. Let the entrepreneurs take over. If you don't want to be one of them, that's your own issue. These are not government operatives but small businesspeople who can take it somewhere - before Tobacco and the Liquor industries do. Let them do it, let them do it openly and without having to worry about frozen banking restrictions, or else Big Liquor and Tobacco will take it over. Don't think you can reverse this. One way or another it will happen and if you stall then you're just keeping the small operator out and giving Big Liquor and Tobacco their chance to lobby for it on their own and take it over.
Move out of the way? For what? So you can bloviate while most of the commenters here ignore you?
You and Inga want to rip Trump apart with your innuendo and lies - you go for it. You see how that all works out.
Hint - People are sick to death of leftwing lies and leftwing bullshit. YOU might want to consider getting out of the way, Balls.
Balls, if the feds are going to go after the states that have approved and legalized marijuana - I see a fight, and it won't end well for Trump.
Trump has already stated that he thinks pot is a states rights issue. Sessions isn't in there yet - shall we wait & see what he does first? or shall be fling leftwing KKK lies at him now?
Achilles - Makes sense for us to listen to an admitted felon about how to solve America's problems.
Ms.Apple will no doubt still be screaming "Lies!" even after the the investigation results are declassified and it's proven she is wrong.
Don't worry April. They ignore you, too.
Hint - People are sick to death of leftwing lies and leftwing bullshit. YOU might want to consider getting out of the way, Balls.
Oh, you mean like protectionist trade policies and being pro-worker? Someone tell Kellyanne Conway that Trump had the wrong winning strategy, then.
Trump has already stated that he thinks pot is a states rights issue. Sessions isn't in there yet - shall we wait & see what he does first?
No. We should admit that Trump either didn't know what he was doing or preferred the fascist he got for the pick. He's supposed to know and care about their stances before he nominates them.
But I guess he was just busy for that. Or had another sort of favor owed for Sessions to be paid back with.
You tell me. Explicate his prestidigitation!
You and Inga want to rip Trump apart with your innuendo and lies - you go for it.
LOL. How often would you say Mr Trump tells the truth? Maybe just as a percentage of the time?
I can't believe you thought that with Clinton out we would all roll over and play dead for your little right-wing doggie. Nope, that's not how he ran and that's not how he'll be judged. He's got a lot to account for. He didn't come into this scot-free and that's not how he'll get out of it. There are people besides just his political picks that he owes.
Apologies if this has been addressed upthread, but: I am willing to see and accept real evidence that "the Russians," i.e., parties directly connected to the Russian government, "hacked" both the DNC and Podesta, and see and accept real evidence that the Russians believed that showing the American people what the Dems were really like would help swing the election to Trump. Not having seen such evidence, we should at least keep open the possibility that the Russians didn't do it. What if they really didn't? What will they (i.e., Russian leaders in the know) think of this freak-out over nothing, falsely attributed to them? How will they think about the feckless, clueless, domestically-focused, partisan-interest-over-everything attitudes of the Dem elites? What ideas will it give them for future manipulation of people eager to think themselves, and Americans, manipulated?
Achilles - you might want to know that the video you linked was of Medvedyev, not Putin.
Obama can have political flexibility in working with the Russians (esp. before Putin got back on top) that doesn't translate into admiring Putin's tyrannical (or as Trump says, "strong") grip on power.
Rhythm and Balls said...
Show me what facts you want to refer to for the forensics of the hack.
This is the email he clicked on.
Go on. What country did it originate in? What times? What software apps were used and how sophisticated were they? Who had the expertise for what was done.
Give me a ballpark figure.
Didn't matter what country. IP's are as easy to spoof as phish mails are to send. If you are not "there when it happened" you aren't going to track "where" it came from.
It also doesn't matter. This "hack" was basically whistle blowing. The hack highlighted the perfididy and amorality and eventually the abject stupidity of the DNC. If someone leaked similar information about republicans to the NYT they would have been patriots and heroes.
Basically, just tell me anything to convince me that you're not just picking and choosing the reporting you like best.
Why would Russia want Trump instead of Hillary? They had already done business with Hillary and bought some very sensitive natural resources for some modest donations to the Clinton slush fund. Hillary offered the "reset" button. Obama promised more flexibility and pretty much allowed Putin to go where he wanted.
If you want a State Villain with an actual motive and the capability and expertise you want Israel. Seriously.
Excellent points, Sebastian.
Progs are now Russian experts. You could comb these postings over the last decade and you would find jack shit about Russia from the left. Suddenly the Ruskies are pure evil for letting us in on how Hillary and crew fucked Bernie Sanders out of the nomination. LOL
Why would Russia prefer Trump over Clinton? Maybe because he owes Russian banks a lot of money and promised something in return? Maybe Putin loves Trump's beautiful hands? So many reasons we have yet to discover.
Rhythm and Balls said...
Achilles - you might want to know that the video you linked was of Medvedyev, not Putin.
Obama can have political flexibility in working with the Russians (esp. before Putin got back on top) that doesn't translate into admiring Putin's tyrannical (or as Trump says, "strong") grip on power.
You aren't this dumb. Everyone knew who held the reigns of power then and what Medvedyev was: a puppet of Putin.
We all remember "The 80's called and they want their foreign policy back." Quit being ridiculous.
Unknown said...
Why would Russia prefer Trump over Clinton? Maybe because he owes Russian banks a lot of money and promised something in return? Maybe Putin loves Trump's beautiful hands? So many reasons we have yet to discover.
Pathetic ramblings. Nobody takes you people seriously. You are a joke.
You explain for me Achilles the difference between Trump's present and hoped-for relationship with Putin and Obama's with Medvedyev.
Again, it's getting tiresome discussing things with people who have their own burdens of proof for understanding basic events in policy, espionage and foreign relationships. I'm getting the impression that it's basically: We can't know anything, ever. Especially if it might be negative about Trump.
Now negative things about anyone else - esp. any Democrat? Those things we have absolute iron-clad proof for.
Sounds like Trump, the post-truth, anti-ideology candidate, is giving you free reign to be as partisan as possible about as many things as possible.
Or not. But I'm getting a sense here of a lack for any concrete direction. I guess that's Trump's legacy - he's sort of the same way. All over the map.
What's true or not depends on what side of the bed he got up on that morning.
"How will they think about the feckless, clueless, domestically-focused, partisan-interest-over-everything attitudes of the Dem elites?"
Oh, probably nothing they haven't been thinking for years.
Obama wanted flexibility with to deal with putin, because they were tied into the Iran deal and they in turn were backing assad's regime
And Achilles, you come across as a psycho.
A little primer for basic email hacks.
What these people do is more like a simple con than a "hack." Only idiots and very unlucky people fall for this.
If you want to get into it more you can open up a "<"script">" tag inside almost anything on a web page. This includes link tags. This is why you don't click on links... And watching this scrubby little comment editor telling me it wont accept script tags is entertainment.
I think it would be great if the investigation shows the Russki's were pushing Sanders over Hillary and Trump. It's as likely as anything else. Why wouldn't the Russians want Sanders over Hillary and Trump?
It took the hacking abilities of a nation-state to determine that podesta's gmail password was p@ssw0rd.
Fer God's sake, Podesta's assistant was sending him his apple ID and gmail passwords in clear text.
Rhythm and Balls said...
You explain for me Achilles the difference between Trump's present and hoped-for relationship with Putin and Obama's with Medvedyev.
The difference is Obama hated the United States and what makes it special and Trump likes the United States and what makes it special. Trump is going to put America and Americans first and if that means being friendly with Russia that's great.
Again, it's getting tiresome discussing things with people who have their own burdens of proof for understanding basic events in policy, espionage and foreign relationships. I'm getting the impression that it's basically: We can't know anything, ever. Especially if it might be negative about Trump.
I am as jaded as anyone I guarantee you. Trump threw out the entire foreign policy apparatus including not just the Obama admin but the neocons from the Bush admin. The DC establishment on both sides never saw a war it didn't like. Hillary was the biggest warmonger in DC. It is clear there will be a new direction in foreign policy for this country. After the last 4 presidents it can only be better.
Now negative things about anyone else - esp. any Democrat? Those things we have absolute iron-clad proof for.
Sounds like Trump, the post-truth, anti-ideology candidate, is giving you free reign to be as partisan as possible about as many things as possible.
Or not. But I'm getting a sense here of a lack for any concrete direction. I guess that's Trump's legacy - he's sort of the same way. All over the map.
Trump's legacy will be the end of ideology in American politics.(I hope) He is a businessman and a pragmatist. He doesn't care about "conservative" or "liberal" or "progressive" or "libertarian." It should be abundantly clear by now he didn't give a shit about any of that for the first 70 years of his life and he probably doesn't really care much more about it now. His cabinet picks so far have screamed "change DC and get shit done." I think he is going to be very pragmatic about foreign policy too.
To the extent we are "post truth" that is all on Obama and Clinton. They lied repeatedly, blatantly, and without remorse and were covered for by the state media who is now beclowning themselves with this "fake-news" crusade. I appreciate the end of false-objectivity in the media.
Unknown said...
And Achilles, you come across as a psycho
Sure.
You come across as an idiot.
From a psycho, that's only insane ramblings, lol.
I had a chance to meet Tim Moran last summer and spend several hours of very interesting conversation. He flatly predicted that Trump would win the election. Having spent a lot of time recently based in Europe, he lacked the hysteria of the American news media on the subject of Trump. He had also just seen the Brexit vote up close.
As to the Russian thing and the hacks, the only certainty is that there is a hell of a lot less that we know than we don't know. That goes for our intelligence agencies too, imho.
Big Mike, I am well aware that everyone is hacking everyone. I am concerned about it because I should be, just like I should be concerned about any other type of spying going on. That said, it should not be easy to hack our computer systems. Apparently, it is.
Of course, when you have a mail server in a bathroom, that is to be expected.
Go on. What country did it originate in? What times? What software apps were used and how sophisticated were they? Who had the expertise for what was done.
The hacks are sold on 4chan. They might have ORIGINATED somewhere, but just as airplanes ORIGINATED here, they can be made in a wide array of locations. We do not know where THESE specific hacks originated from. We know the origins of the software used, but that is not relevant to the hacks themselves.
It's those damned Russians who hacked their way into my underpants and put those shit stains there, Goddam you, Putin !
Why would the Ruskis give up valuable leverage in embarrassing information just to mess with HRC?
How much longer before the Democrats accuse Trump of flying an SR-71 to Moscow to meet Putin to pull off an "October surprise"?
This Russian hack story is amusing but insane.
The MSM may be liars but they still have the microphone.
The difference is Obama hated the United States...
There we go. I forgot that on the internet everyone's an expert. If not in how an email hack must have occurred than in what is inside someone's head.
Trump's legacy will be the end of ideology in American politics.
Dream on.
His cabinet picks so far have screamed "change DC and get shit done."
For the worse. Pruitt is not "getting anything done" for the environment, but pitting it against the declining industries he favors. He will turn it into the Environmental Destruction Agency. Bannon is not a change for the better. And State? His picks have certainly screamed - but they scream that the guy doesn't know what he's doing and values personal loyalty above any other concern.
I think he is going to be very pragmatic about foreign policy too.
Assuming he knows what he's doing.
To the extent we are "post truth" that is all on Obama and Clinton.
Nonsense. It's on an internet that balkanizes information into a million different epistemological tribes and allows people to choose their own truth. Especially those who feel these things become truths by broadcasting them on Twitter, like our PEOTUS. Demonstrable fact: Trump lied three times as much as Clinton. Bill Clinton was certainly a liar and Hillary was deceptively secretive and a bad liar. Obama OTOH you just called a liar because your tribe would fixate on irrelevant and insignificant interpretations of things he said that deliberately minimized/ignored the actual points he was making. Yes, Obama was not good at explaining the right-wing version of their "truth."
They lied repeatedly, blatantly, and without remorse and were covered for by the state media who is now beclowning themselves with this "fake-news" crusade.
Here are some premature victory laps. Fact: FOX News viewers are the most consistently misinformed. Save the moral indignation for when the right-wing media actually manages some journalistic achievements, such as the cultivation of a better informed viewer audience. And not their obsession with sexing up the entertainment and political pornography that they falsely masquerade as "news."
I appreciate the end of false-objectivity in the media.
And the rise of blatant and unapologetic subjectivity in the alt-right media that you presume to replace it with.
All right. Things are getting too heated. Yes, I like where Trump was coming from on a less neoconservative/interventionist foreign policy. But I guess I'm just accounting for the well-known reality that as of last year, he DID become a politician and that politicians have different priorities in elections than they have once in office. People are pinning so much on his neophyte/failed businessman creds, that they think he is somehow immune to doing what all politicians everywhere do that they're so jaded about. If it's not clear, let me break it down to you: TRUMP WILL LIE. Trump DOES lie. Trump has spent a lifetime inflating what he wants to say deliberately in order to sell it. How America decided that chief marketing strategists - for brands that revolve around their name alone in whatever market he wants to erect his name - are the new truth tellers is beyond me. Well, he certainly told a few necessary truths in the election. And a whole lot of lies. But it didn't matter. The new, never-before-told necessary truths were enough to put him over the edge. That and a willingness to insult whomever he felt like insulting, deservedly so or not. But now is the metamorphosis time for the politician. He will be in office, his priorities will change. Some things he probably can and would do differently - and in a beneficial way. None of his first acts however - these nominations/appointments - says anything remotely close to that. And that makes all the difference in the world.
@Static Ping, it made me a great career as the designer of computer systems where InfoSec is critical. But as I've written before, when you think you've made a system totally fool proof you ruefully discover something new about the foolishness of the user community. Build password checkers to enforce strong passwords and people find creative ways to use weak, easily guessed ones. Sometimes I think 50% or more of the federal employees use some variation on "Redskins" (like R3d$k1N$).
Way late to the party. Actually working on a Sunday,
Wasted my morning on six straight hours of cable news. An old habit.
Saw CNN when Crowdstrike was introduced on somebody's show a couple of days ago. Read an article on them.
While I was wasting time this morning I decided to play journalist, to see what I could quickly find. Looked Crowdstrike up on Wickipedia [on the internet so it's true] along with Guccifer and G 2.0.
In the "executive summary," it said they have contracts in 170 countries and two notable clients are the SONY hack and the DNC hack. So far so good.
I went to the Crowdstrike blog to follow up on what they said on TV about the two hackers groups, Fuzzy Bear and Cozy Bear, which are Russia based, etc., etc. Sounds reasonable to me.
As far as Putin's motive, strategically it could never be Trump, because regardless of his foreign policy, domestically it's "Drill, baby, drill."
That is very deadly to non-diversified oil producers, including all our friends in Russia, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and some mopes like Nigeria and all the rest.
Vive la fracking!
OTOH, Hillary and the Sierra Club would have shut down another million barrels and been eminently blackmailable, because they both take money from Russia.
You can look it up. Like they used to say in the old days of guys like Mike Royko: "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."
R&B wrote:
"For the worse. Pruitt is not "getting anything done" for the environment"
Well, the environment is going to be pissed, isn't it!
You are a funny person, R&B.
a couple a thumbs up to Milwaukee guy
Ritmo head asplode!
(seethe), (blub), (drip), (tinkle).
Pedro
Why in the world would the Russians prefer Trump to Clinton? She already proved to be incapable of playing poker at that level when she was Secretary of State.
Besides, if the Russians wanted something from Hillary they could just give her money like everyone else.
Thank you Mr. Ericson.
But that's Milwaukie Guy with an "ie," as in the People's Republic of Oregon.
I did spend most of my life in Crook County, Illinois, mostly in Chicago.
I always like the way we referred to Winsconsin [sic] as Cheeseheads and Illinois' Biggest State Park and they called us FIBs, Fucking Illinois Bastards. Cheez, can't take a joke.
I've been reading Althouse for more than 10 years and I've never seen anyone take the handle John Johnson.
My Name is Yon Yohnson
I come from Wisconsin
I work in the lumberyard there
When I walk down the street
All the people I meet
They say what's your name?
And I say
My name is....
Rinse and repeat until some sibling hits you.
Leftists are curious people indeed.
The Rosemberg couple was a-ok even if they were secret agents funneling secrets to the Soviet Union; at that time, apparently, Russia was not a big deal.
Now Trump is a treasonous scoundrel delivering the USA in the lurid hands of the most dangerous regime ever.
All of that, base on the unofficial words of a CIA unknown who's not going to discuss the issue in the Senate - but everyone has to believe that as the most certain evidence after 1+1=2
Amazing!
Furthermore, you better ignore the content of the leaked letters, otherwise you are a very, very bad person.
As long as he keeps his promise on getting rid of Paul Krugman Pelosi Gruber Liar-care where you don't save 2500, and you don't get to keep your doctor - Trump is ace.
On any particular subject, among Obama, the CIA, the FBI, Putin or "Russia," who should I believe?
Sadly, I don't know.
Of course the election was not hacked. The DNC and Pod-person were hacked. As noted above there is telling silence claiming the e-mails were fake.
But elections could certainly be hacked if some get their way. Notably those that want on-line voting .
I suspect a huge overlap in a Venn diagram of those in high speed wobble over the "hacked election" and those that support on-line voting.
Unknown said...
Trump is going down. He'll be lucky to evade charges of treason.
12/18/16, 7:02 PM
KEEP HOPE ALIVE!
You pathetic buffoon. How much money did you give to Jill Stein?
If you had any brains or shame, you'd be embarrassed to show yourself around these parts.Every single one of your predictions has been wrong, clown. The only thing you accomplish here is providing us with laughs.
The Rosemberg couple was a-ok even if they were secret agents funneling secrets to the Soviet Union; at that time, apparently, Russia was not a big deal.
Now Trump is a treasonous scoundrel delivering the USA in the lurid hands of the most dangerous regime ever."
The Russians were fine when they were just anti-American and the GOP hated them. Hell, Swimmer Teddy enlisted their aid to try to prevent Reagan's reelection.
Being anti-American is fine as far as Unknown and R&B are concerned. Understandable. Forgivable. Root causes and Yankee imperialism and capitalism and all that. But now the Russians are perceived as anti-Democrat Party - Outrage! I suspect the cries of "treason" are meant for the Russkies as much as for the GOP. All the love we leftists gave to the USSR all those years and this is how an old KGB guy repays us! Betrayal!
Hey R&B, cut just a tiny sliver of slack here. The election is still being fought. "Our guy" hasn't got it official yet, let alone taken power. We've had eight years of nothing but manipulation from the other side. Forgive us if we want to get this nailed down first before listening anymore to Lucy with the football. Come back after Jan 20 and I promise to take this seriously.
As for not liking his picks, what can I say? He isn't Obama and he isn't Sanders. You're not going to get your own way all the time. Please don't whine about it.
BTW for all the "take it seriously! Take it seriously now!!!" people:
Taking it seriously now = killing Russians.
Go ahead without thinking any further or knowing any more than we have now?
Or does killing Russians = let's think about this further, let's know more, let's be sure?
Personally I love the idea of killing Russians. Who else? You, R&B? You, Inga? You, GWash? You, Jelly? Everybody who wants somebody else to go kill some Russians, speak up.
[listens; crickets]
OK so shut up for now. Endit
CNN showing still pic of the murder of the Russian Ambassador to Turkey.
Remember Aleppo, etc.
OK? Do you get it now?
Quit fucking around.
(I had not known this news when I posted @10:48)
Hey, comrades. Just as a point of reference - I was born, raised and educated in the USSR. And I read Russian news from time to time.
Let's be honest. The worst thing that can happen to the Putin's regime is a drop in oil and gas prices. The party which would make oil and gas development in USA cheaper and faster is the ultimate nemesis of Putin. That party is the republican party. The Democrats are controlled by anti-fracking, anti-oil, anti-gas groups, and I am pretty much sure they are funded by Saudis, Russia, Bahrain and the like. And let's not forget Iran - the country which was appeased by Obama in two ways: the abandonment of sanctions, and the limits of gas/oil production/transportation.
It's obvious that Obama-Clinton regime would continue to suppress oil/gas production, will waste money on solar energy (instead of funding more research in oil and coal), and will make stupid deals with Russia and particularly Iran.
So if Putin really supported Trump, that was truly, amazingly, stupid on his part. It would mean he stuck a knife in his own back.
And one more thing - when you listen to liberals whine about Putin, don't forget, that as Clinton said - they have private and public views. The whole hysteria about Putin looks to me as a kabuki theatre. And mind you, the best counter-attack against this would be for Trump to point out that every patriotic American, who wants to get back at Putin for his alleged meddling needs to patriotically support immediate attack on the oil prices by drastically simplifying environmental laws and regulations, giving permits for oil and gas extraction in Alaska and other federal lands, for immediate end to all obstruction of building new pipelines, etc.
If liberals are serious about fighting Putin - they need to help Trump in his endeavor to make oil extraction and transport much, much cheaper in USA and Canada. This is their patriotic duty. If they refuse - it means they work for Putin and are guilty of treason. Oil is the best weapon against Putin's regime. Are you with us (and US oil business) or are you with Putin and Iran? Pick your side.
And one more thing. Given the unprecedented danger of foreign involvement in our democratic process.... I suggest that the Senate and Congress form a special committee to investigate which environmental groups are funded by the foreign governments (Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, Bahrain). We cannot allow it anymore. Agreed?
Also note the unwisdom/BS/hypocrisy: this Blue Ribbon Bushwah commission is only supposed to investigate the election hack, not the other dozens of far more important ones (eg OPM) that occurred on Obama's watch!
Everyone pushing the Russia Did It meme needs to first look up the term "useful idiots" and then have a good look in the mirror.
Tank said...
"On any particular subject, among Obama, the CIA, the FBI, Putin or "Russia," who should I believe?
Sadly, I don't know."
I don't know, but I'd like to know what was Hillary's back end(pun) of the Uranium deal with Russia. Seems like if any body has been bought by the Kremlin it's Clintion.
Post a Comment