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ADDED: Thanks for all the comments! And here's my son John's live-blogging. His bottom line: "Winner: Chris Wallace."
I watched, but I'm going to wait for the transcript — and the morning — to weigh in.
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356 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 356 of 356One interesting thing was that Hillary spoke about "making the rich pay their fair share" then mentioned raising Social Security taxes.
That is the most regressive tax we have. You could raise the cap on income but you would have to raise the cap on payout.
I don't think that makes sense.
rh - Joseph Silk? Cool. I'll definitely take a look.
"To me, the SCOTUS issue alone leads me to vote for Trump"
Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?
Remember how Trump refused to pledge to support the winner of the Republican primaries. The other candidates made that pledge and criticized Trump for not doing so. Funny how that worked out........The commentators are criticizing Trump for not promising to abide by the election recsults. They claim it's unprecedented. I seem to remember a certain amount of disputation about Dubya's election.
There can't be a social security trust fund. It's impossible.
The government must instantly return to the economy every dollar taken in, lest the money supply fall.
The "fund" will always wind up holding IOUs no matter how you do it, so that those dollars can be returned.
The current recipients get goods and services from current workers, in every possible financial universe. The only balance possible is in the retirement age for benefits, which governs the numbers of workers and recipients so that the workers are willing to pay the recipients under a promise of the same deal for themselves.
Hillary is the open borders candidate now and forever.
"Gotta agree with you there, Chuck!"
Wait, mockturtle. I thought you had it in for Wallace.
Fox News Sunday is the only one I watch regularly.
Correction: Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder their own babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?
Meade
A nasty criminal woman.
Ohhhh God, hahahahahahahah! Landslide for Democrats, well we knew it from day one.
rh - Joseph Silk? Cool. I'll definitely take a look.
Ian Morrison gives the best astronomy lectures; John Barrow even better math and physics lectures. All those a few years back but on the site somewhere.
"Meade
A nasty criminal woman."
Maybe that's what he meant. But, why not a direct quote?
Per PB&J: Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?
That and the Second Amendment, yes.
Trump won in the facial expressions department, I think (unlike the first debate). Hillary's smiles are so supercilious! Bound to be off-putting to the truly undecided.
William falsely asserted: Remember how Trump refused to pledge to support the winner of the Republican primaries.
Trump, in fact, did pledge to support the winner of the primary.
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"To me, the SCOTUS issue alone leads me to vote for Trump"
"Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?"
Not sure why Wallace gave this topic top billing. It hasn't really been an issue yet. Our real issue is Heller vs. DC. Interestingly enough trump gave the perfect answer on abortion which I attribute to luck. But if you ask Americans what the Supreme Court is about right now it is the second amendment.
Clinton lied about her stance shockingly.
Mock,
The second amendment isn't going anywhere. There's exactly zero legal or legislative hint that anything else is true.
But, various states are poking at abortion. That's a reality. The 2nd amendment stuff is just for selling guns and making more NRA dough (which is the same thing since the NRA is tied to the gun selling industrial complex).
For the record, I want folks (who are not crazy or terrorists) to have as many guns of whatever sort they like (inlc AR-15s etc).
"I will tell you at the time."
The only sensible answer.
mockturtle said...
Per PB&J: Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?
That and the Second Amendment, yes.
I hope you are joking. The country faces a lot of real challenges and you allow yourself to be distracted by a few shiny baubles cooked up by the right-wing equivalent of social justice warriors.
Hillary insisted again on using overturning Citizens United as a litmus test for SCOTUS appointees. That case explicitly allows criticism of her thighness. That alone is reason to revile her.
CBS' "Survivor" is all.
Starving chicks are cute because, hey, you buy 'em a cheeseburger and get passionate sex for life.
And the dude are too weak to stop it.
Win win winwinwiiwniwniwnn like a CR500 starting.
Google the sound of two stroke power, burning oil into the gas. Buuuuuuuuurrrr buh bu burrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
The last time Obama said sarcastically that she was "likeable enough", and now Trump calls her a "nasty woman". She needs to win so people will stop being so mean to her. Well, it's as good a reason as any.
Some things I have learned after the fact - not that I saw the debate, we were finishing up I,Claudius.
Seems more appropriate everything considered.
This is a night of ill omen.
To quote Claudius, "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out". So be it. As we see, there are a lot of poisons.
One, personal, detail that struck me, about raising taxes on those making over $250,000. Thats me, I suppose. So my marginal rate is going up probably, assuming our income remains there. I suspect not.
Big government on steroids. Let's force millions of women to carry and give birth to unwanted babies. Who will enforce the anti abortion law?
For a 'reasonable man', ARM, you are quite unreasonable about the murder of innocent children. But I guess they are mere 'shiny baubles' to you. And I do feel strongly about our right to self defense. And so should you, unless you want to end up like Europe.
Q: Why, why, why is Hillary so fixated on Citizen United such that she must bring it up at every public speech?
Hint: it has nothing to do with "big money" in politics.
222 has been lucky for me for decades now, and I ain't that old.
I gave $35 to Trump,yesterday.
$7 previous.
Do your math.
Meh. Hillary was so gratingly phony (when is she not?) and there is so much you can attack with, and I thought Trump whiffed. On the election results question, why didn't he bring up what the Dems did in 2000? Or the ample evidence of Dem fraud? The whole "Trump is mean to women!" can easily be answered by bringing up how Hillary treated her husband's victims (although I did like how he brought up Hill's ties to Saudi Arabia). He brought up the O'Keefe vid and the violence against Trump supporters in Chicago, but Hillary was never forced by him or Wallace to actually answer any questions about it. She is a nasty woman, but I think it was a mistake to say it.
I think he won, very narrowly. A better debater would have wiped the floor with her though.
The only people who have an issue with Trump not accepting the election are DC and media elites. Democrats have never accepted elections. There are millions of illegal voters on the voter rolls.
Fact is the trap Feild surrounded skeetedly, had the three twos there for all to see.
2 2 2
"That is the most regressive tax we have. You could raise the cap on income but you would have to raise the cap on payout."
Under the system we now have that is true.
A better way is to slowly extend elligibility age.
Blogger Unknown said...
"Big government on steroids. Let's force millions of women to carry and give birth to unwanted babies. Who will enforce the anti abortion law?"
The states. Trump's answer was perfect.
Mock,
I think that ARM and others are trying to ask you if you really think there are a ton of American women who are hooking up w/ eager docks to murder babies a day before nine months?
If you, like DJT, truly believe that's what abortion is in America........there aren't words, hence the hoping that you're not serious.
Every once in a while Trump says what he thinks and not "what he should". Clinton is a well trained extremely accomplished liar.
Why do the media constantly tell us there is a prescribed way to be what they consider to be presidential? Could being "presidential" be a bad thing? Could someone who isn't "presidential" be the better leader?
Of course Clinton is trained, drilled and completely prepared to ACT presidential.
docks should be docs
Hey, Unknown/Inga, let's rip babies out of the womb at 9 months and let them die on a table and then cry fake tears over toddlers!
Europeans think our abortion laws are barbaric. They are - but not if you're a cold-hearted shrew who pretends to love children.
Bill Burton: "The Clintons do not benefit financially from the Clinton Foundation."
mockturtle correctly called out William: Trump, in fact, did pledge to support the winner of the primary.
I recall that Trump reluctantly agreed but kept his word. The hypocrites were JEB and Kasich. Rubio and Cruz fudged worse that Betty Crocker.
New Trump motto: Drain the swamp before we all get stuck in that nasty woman's in slime and are eaten by Globalist alligators.
I know, it still needs work to fit on a hat.
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Mock,
"I think that ARM and others are trying to ask you if you really think there are a ton of American women who are hooking up w/ eager docks to murder babies a day before nine months?
If you, like DJT, truly believe that's what abortion is in America........there aren't words, hence the hoping that you're not serious."
How many Gosnell's do you think there are?
PB&J, as far as I am concerned, it matters not at which month the unborn child is murdered.
42 is the sum of my contribution in terms of today's dollars.
This supercedes the previous 30 total since Guiliani.
JEB! should should be exiled from American politics for awhile. Not only because he looks like his mother -- the biggest schoolmarm in politics -- but because he was in fact caught out in hypocrisy.
Ach,
Didn't that dude go to jail under existing law?
Hillary's nonsense on Heller.
PBandJ_Ombudsman, why all the hysterical screaming about any limit at all on abortion?
All European countries have limits - usually from 12 to 16 weeks. When Texas came up with a 20 week limit, a mass of hysterical harpies showed in Austin to throw tampons at legislators.
Most Americans favor legal abortion. They also favor limits. The abortion lobby and the Dems will not permit that.
Why the passionate, ghoulish insistence that there should be no limits at all.
"Democrats have never accepted elections."
Keep counting until you win.
Per Original Mike: Bill Burton: "The Clintons do not benefit financially from the Clinton Foundation."
Even if it were true--and it probably is not--there should never have been preferential treatment of donors by the State Department, which there clearly was.
Trump's answer on accepting election results reminds me of Trump's answer on accepting the primary winner pledge.
Wallace should have asked Hillary if she would accept a Trump win. Just to get her on record.
PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Ach,
Didn't that dude go to jail under existing law?
10/19/16, 10:19 PM
And how long was he in business?
Paul Hill made quite a nice living, a killing, so to speak, in specializing in late term abortions before he himself was murdered.
If HillyBilly loves "the children" so much why did she stop at the one with fetal alcohol syndrome?
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Ach,
"Didn't that dude go to jail under existing law?"
A State law. A state law that Hillary wants to get rid of.
Hillary's views on abortion are indistinguishable from Kermit Gosnell's views.
Has everyone forgotten the Empty Pews At The Church Of Truth?
exile,
I think the concern is that some cons will talk like DJT did today by saying overturning legal abortions is to stop abortion one day before nine months.
But, as Mock demonstrated in this thread, the real goal is to 100% eliminate abortion from day one, regardless of the mother's life, rape, or health (which obviously can be a loophole).
Folks can come down on different sides of this. But, it'd be nice to be upfront about what their intentions really are. Mock was honest. If DJT was equally honest re abortion he'd be toast (assuming he's not already toast.)
For you word counters, I was bothered by how many times Hillary said "not one penny" and "women".
Did Trump once utter the word "men"?
Jelly wrote: But, as Mock demonstrated in this thread, the real goal is to 100% eliminate abortion from day one, regardless of the mother's life, rape, or health (which obviously can be a loophole).
Where did Mock write that?
@Jelly: It's just as plausible to assert that abortion is a business interest and that PP represents that business interest.
Q: Does PP donate politically?
Cacimbo Cacimbo said...
What is on her teeth? I was only listening earlier, trying to watch it is very distracting.
10/19/16, 9:36 PM
Looked like lipstick to me. Of course, it also could have been the blood of virgins she drinks daily to revive herself.
I thought Mike Wallace did much better than the first 2 moderators.
Q: Does PP donate politically?
A: Yes
"For you word counters, I was bothered by how many times Hillary said "not one penny" and "women".
Did Trump once utter the word "men"?"
Stop your complaining. You should be ecstatic to see that he didn't say pussy, piggy, blood coming...., etc. By DJT standards, limiting himself to "nasty woman" is more presidential than "presidential" has ever been and could ever be.
That PP gal's mom seemed like a sassy Texan.
I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
Which she won't. A Trump win will be greeted with a cacophony of "Russia did it!" and "the fact that we can't find any proof, proves it!"
ARM, a huge lefty but not without qualities, offers this:
He may not know much but he is passionate about it and reflects genuine concerns of the people in the country.
Isn't that actually the most important thing?
Disappointed with Krauthammer getting frothy over the "legitimacy" question. Everyone needs a club to beat Trump with,
and that is the designated bludgeon for tonight. I guess it's a pity that he couldn't have danced on stage with a few hundred words explaining that all, but ultimately he is entitled to be concerned, and why should he lie?
Why. Should. He. Lie?
Why do they want him to lie?
It's been one long campaign OF DECADES for the left to get the right to buy into the con. Bless Trump for fighting it! I want a skeptic in office at long last, don't you?
And why is Donna Brazile on my TV on Fox no less and not bring asked about slipping questions to HRC?!
http://youtu.be/9CmZkkN1g4A
"I was only listening earlier, trying to watch it is very distracting."
Try watching it and also following a Twitter feed of (now) more than one thousand feeds.
Sometimes what is not said nor asked is more telling than what is said or asked. I noticed that Chris Wallace asked Trump whether he would accept the results of the election, but did not ask Hillary. With the 2000 Election and the "Sore-Loserman" Florida episode, why do we expect that Hillary would accept a loss gracefully? Or, does Wallace assume that Trump is going to lose?
I noticed that Hillary did not contest the authenticity of the content of the wikileaks emails. She blamed Putin (for taking advantage of her cupidity and stupidity.) Isn't that omission rather significant? Doesn't her violation of the classification laws make it her fault that all this stuff got out. After all, you can't blame the horse thieves for stealing your horses if you leave the barn door open. That's who they are; that's what they do.
Trump should have said he is no Al Gore who tried to steal an election and as long as there is no vote fraud and election rigging which is a longstanding Democrat Party tradition he of course will accept the results, but will Hillary accept her defeat?
Don't be ridiculous, PB&J. The life of the mother is, and has always been, an exception. Health of the mother? As you say, a loophole, since emotional and mental health issues can always be contrived to suit the occasion.
It might surprise you to know that I was county chairman for abortion reform back in the 60's. But, then, I was wrong about a lot of things in the 60's.
It is scientifically impossible to state when a 'fetus' becomes a human life. Viability is not the answer, since that has changed drastically in the past couple of decades. Endoscopic photography has changed a lot of attitudes, too, showing human features and activity at a much earlier stage than was earlier believed.
It's a given that the Democrats will attempt all kinds of fraudulent voting. The purpose of Trump refusing to unequivocally accept the results of the election is to encourage them to at least show a little discretion. Which they have no intention of doing, hence the freak out. Fen's Law rampant.
Hillary never did answer the question about going to war with Russia.
I think the 4 minute nuclear response window is classified Top Secret, NOFORN.
I can't confirm or deny it, as I am sworn to secrecy.
oops...
I was pleased to see Hillary go on a little gun control rant. Whether she follows through or not, it was good of her to remind folks where she stands on that issue.
"Don't be ridiculous, PB&J. The life of the mother is, and has always been, an exception."
For many anti-abortion folks the life of the mother is a legit reason because this situation is considered self defense. But, you seem to have avoided the rape exception. And, it is inarguable that many anti-abortion folks have no exceptions, including the mother's life.
As I wrote earlier. Folks have different views on abortion. Some politicians, such as DJT today, blather vividly about supposed problem of homicidal mothers eager to kill kids a day before nine months. OTOH, HRC didn't lie about her POV, she didn't even mention rape or incest, never mind talking about coat hangers.
The thing with the Supreme Court is far more than abortion. Hillary again brought up Citizens United and how she wants to overturn it. That would make it illegal to criticize Hillary. That's a big deal. I mean, freedom of speech is at risk here. Second when the LGBT fascists come to force churches to marry gays or ban religious groups and institutions, Hillary has vowed to use government force to "change doctrine ". That's more of the 1st amendment she wants gutted. Then again she signaled her desire to gut the right of self defense.
None of these are abortion concerns. They are basic fundamental freedoms of America that Hillary wants to gut. The democrars have already destroyed the freedom of the press by totally melding the Democratic Party with the media so no one knows what the difference between them is anymore.
--Vance
Takeaway:
[Orson Welles voice:] Trump will concede no election before its/it’s time.
[Obama’s voice:] Hillary will concede no no-fly zone [red line] infractions before [or after] their time.
Seems right.
JOB
One thing that has been learned by NPR and its public radio affiliates across the country, is to never, ever do a "poll" of their listeners and/or website readers. Because such a poll is itself useless (being a poll of a narrowly-sliced demographic), and it only serves to expose the true nature of that audience (a self-selected liberal and even far-left crowd).
This is a lesson that Matt Drudge seems determined to not learn. If you move fast, you can still go right now to the DrudgeReport home page and make your choice in the Drudge Poll. And be one of the 106% (okay, it's only about 75%) to vote for Donald J. Trump as the clear winner of tonight's debate.
Sean Hannity voted twice.
"Sean Hannity voted twice."
Ha!
Twice is for losers.
The DJT folks use code to clear the poll tracking, and then they really run up the numbers.
Anywho, that's too much work for most folks, we're happy to manually use the same technique to read the NYT and WaPo w/o paying for the so-called lame stream payroll (as if Bezos needs the help at WaPo).
And DJT is also winning the Twitter bot war:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/18/technology/twitter-bots-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/
Owning the Supreme Court is about more than abortion indeed.
It will permit, for instance, the EPA to designate furrows in farmers fields as "mountains" in order to be able to apply the laws on "wetlands" to pretty much every inch of plowed land in the US. True case, working its way through the courts.
Own the Supreme Court and any law means whatever it suits an executive agency to mean. No need for laws anymore really.
"Own the Supreme Court and any law means whatever it suits an executive agency to mean. No need for laws anymore really."
No doubt it goes w/o saying, but you may still want to explicitly include the exception for a con dominated court, in which case every decision is strict constructionist, perfectly true wisdom sent by God via Founders via con Justices to America.
"This is a lesson that Matt Drudge seems determined to not learn. If you move fast, you can still go right now to the DrudgeReport home page and make your choice in the Drudge Poll. And be one of the 106% (okay, it's only about 75%) to vote for Donald J. Trump as the clear winner of tonight's debate."
Good Lord, because LIV's are all about the methodology? Just off the boat? Internet polls (and many "reputable" push polls) are all about buzz and creating momentum.
In the unlikely event that Trump wins this thing he's going to have to make Matt Drudge ambassador to the Court of St. James.
I don't think many doctors go into medicine to perform late term abortions or assist at executions. The record shows that women had more to fear from Dr. Gosnell's sloppy clinic than they did from carrying their child to term.....I think the anti abortion people have a good chance of banning late term abortions if they present their arguments fairly and the media reports on those arguments honestly......I don't think it's possible to ban first term abortions. If you can't ban heroin and illegal guns, you will not have better luck with abortificient drugs. Technology favors the banning of late term abortions, but pharmacology is not on the side of banning first term abortions......Trump looked better in this debate. He eliminated the snorting.
PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"Own the Supreme Court and any law means whatever it suits an executive agency to mean. No need for laws anymore really."
No doubt it goes w/o saying, but you may still want to explicitly include the exception for a con dominated court, in which case every decision is strict constructionist, perfectly true wisdom sent by God via Founders via con Justices to America."
Conservatives do not want want an unelected Super Legislature House Of Lords. Try winning in referendums and in legislatures. has more popular legitimacy.
Chuck said...
One thing that has been learned by NPR and its public radio affiliates across the country, is to never, ever do a "poll" of their listeners and/or website readers. Because such a poll is itself useless (being a poll of a narrowly-sliced demographic), and it only serves to expose the true nature of that audience (a self-selected liberal and even far-left crowd).
--
"Expose"?
Nah..to affirm...their audience/donors.
Try winning in referendums and in legislatures.
No Problem! State governments are dominated by GOP governors and legislatures! Remember prop 8 in Cali? Let me turn that back on ya', PB&J: "Try winning in referendums and in legislatures. has more popular legitimacy."
PB&J, its not going to be, and the case I reference, just one of thousands of this kind in the queue. Plus enormous influence of precedent is already in effect.
This sort of thing is snowballing. You have no idea. Next year, with the expected appointments, the doors of hell begin to open.
coupe said...
What a dumb program. I can't follow the plot.
I think the train is doomed, and we are all going to die, not just the evil twins.
10/19/16, 9:16 PM
LMFAO! ...still LMFAO! Good one, Coupe!
Con courts have somewhat limited the ability of the agencies to reinterpret laws (and its not just the constitution, or mainly the constitution, we speak here of legislation). But that is just about to fail, the last dike holding back unrestricted executive power. Well, really not executive power, because its impossible to control these entities.
You have no idea.
ARM @ 9:30 something: "The decline in middle class and working class people's economic status dates back to Reagan. Globalization started there."
Uhhh... did you miss the 70s?
meanwhile, we gave away our nuclear response time, four minute, which seeing as we may be at war with russia, soon, kind of important,
and the atlantic and prri can run a poll with an 11% female margin and similar range for clinton supporters over trump, and have it look legitimate,
ten years, same sex marriage was an oddity, a program as intrusive as obamacare unfeasable, what will be different five years from now?
The nature of FedGov is an interesting subject.
It is simply no longer under central control.
Each bit seems to be pursuing an independent agenda that is an aspect of its original purpose, but gone gaga. No longer a part of centrally directed policy. Making its own public-private accomodations. Using power for the sake only of internal agendas, disconnected from the civilian world, other than when it is worked through corrupt personal accomodations.
You may be familiar with Fred Saberhagens Beserkers, the alien villain in his novels. A self-replicating horde of intelligent machines that had been created by a long lost alien race as a weapon. The Beserkers slipped their controls and adjusted their original imperative from destroying their makers enemies, to that of simply destroying everything.
So with FedGov.
Michael K said...
One interesting thing was that Hillary spoke about "making the rich pay their fair share"
--
was unable to watch or even listen (I normally listen) this time..will later tomorrow.
But that fair share phrase is one of those national "conversations" that would be interesting to have someday.
Pols can't really engage it because..votes..of the large majority that is carried by a relative minority.
I submit that even a "flat tax" CAN be unfair (i.e. progressive) to higher earners based on use of services. If a pol raised the prospect of a grocery store with a say..4 tier price tag on every item..it might/hopefully seem absurd.
I'm nowhere near a high earner by the way...as previously exhibited by my humbling admission of relying on a Kitchen Aid fridge (as opposed to a Sum-Zero) to combat food poisoning. I get by..just.
And why is Donna Brazile on my TV on Fox no less and not bring asked about slipping questions to HRC?!
She gets the "we need AA opinion pass?"
Donna is unlikely to be mistaken for Ann Althouse.
narciso said...and the atlantic and prri can run a poll with an 11% female margin and similar range for clinton supporters over trump, and have it look legitimate
Countering that?: Hillary's gender gap is around 20% (much worse than Trumps's gender gap)
Nobody here wants to talk about this -- especially Meade.
well forget those details, that was the sample they settled on, the newspapers don't bring up foval or creamer, or all of the juicy nougats found in wikileAKS, they just mention ecuador shut assuange down, really the folks that tried to put chevron out of business, via patton boggs,
walter said...Donna is unlikely to be mistaken for Ann Althouse.*
Althouse gets the "we need an AA opinion pass?"
AA means Ann Althouse or Affirmative Action Same diff.
_____________________
*I hate crowds. Stupid crowds.
this is the best african american spokesman they can round up, twitchy has collected her wit and wisdom, which makes joscelyn edwards seem selfaware by comparison,
PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"To me, the SCOTUS issue alone leads me to vote for Trump"
Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?
10/19/16, 9:55 PM
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Correction: Is it overly presumptuous to assume that your big deal is gals being able to murder their own babies, as some folks such as DJT today like to describe it?
10/19/16, 9:56 PM
__
Whew! Thanks for that clarification. We thought you were advocating for killing sprees in neo-natal wards...the simpletons we be.
No..abortion is not the only issue/right highly malleable by a Hil-Court.
chikelit,
I hate assholes who don't have a sense of humor.
Oh..hate is too strong.
More like pity.
PBandJ,
Look, "the second amendment" is used as metonymy for the whole cluster of gun-rights issues. Surely you know this.
Of Course Clinton is not going to propose a Constitutional Amendment. Why should she, when it's so much more economical--and stealthy--to just appoint justices and judges* who will chip away at gun rights via their rulings?
---------------
*Yeah it's not just about the Supreme Court; right now Heller is undoubtedly the most-ignored higher court decision amoung the circuits.
PBandJ,
Look, "the second amendment" is used as metonymy for the whole cluster of gun-rights issues. Surely you know this.
--
Nah..most folks have to look up "metonymy".
PB&J, as usual, lying and spinning like crazy.
Big difference at this point in the jurisprudence between abortion and 2nd Amdt. There have been a number of abortion cases by the Supreme Court since Roe v. Wade, which have progressively fleshed out the law. That means that it would be quite hard to completely eliminate the right of abortion. What can be done is nip it in around the edges, and, in particular, during the 3rd trimester. Indeed, Roe itself essentially said that 3rd trimester limitations were just fine - it was just later SCOTUS decisions that cut into that. And, the popular sentiment, by far, in this country is just that, eliminating most 3rd trimester abortions, but not putting limits on 1st trimester abortions. This is what the people want. Sure, some anti-abortion proponents want to completely eliminate abortion, but that isn't where the debate is, except in the minds of fervent leftists, who use these supposed wolf whistles to scare LIVs into voting for Dems. To move to completely eliminating the right of abortion would require reversing a half dozen or so SCOTUS decisions, which just ain't gonna happen, regardless of how many people a President Trump got to name to that court.
If anyone is watching TV at all, they probably have seen ads attacking Crooked Hillary on her 2nd Amdt. stand, and not ones pointing out that she supports killing viable babies (i.e. 3rd term abortions). Which is one big part of why PB&J is so disingenuous here. No ads attacking her for her stand on 1st trimester abortions, and a lot of ads about her 2nd Amdt. stand (by a woman who has had machine gun toting, tax payer funded, federal government provided protection for a quarter of a century now - probably worried because so many of the experienced State Dept. security refused to work with her, thanks to her horrible treatment of them).
The problem with 2nd Amdt. jurisprudence right now is that it is new (as contrasted to 45 or so years since Roe v. Wade). There have essentially been two major cases in the last 80 or so years - Heller that found a fundamental right to self-defense and right to keep and bear arms, and McDonald which found that Heller applied to the states (since Heller only strictly applied to the federal govt, which includes DC). Being a fundamental right, heightened scrutiny is required for laws that potentially infringe the 2nd Amdt. But, the key thing here is that they didn't spell out or clarify what they meant by heightened scrutiny. A majority of the Circuits have determined that it means something between intermediate and strict scrutiny (depending on the circumstances), but the 2nd (NY) and 3rd (NJ) Circuits have determined that it means just a smidgen about rational basis scrutiny (which is the level of scrutiny applied to non-fundamental rights, which is highly deferential to the govt). Which means that there is a significant split in the Circuits, one of the things that the Supreme Court uses in determining whether to hear cases. The issue is ripe for a second round before that Court, to determine exactly what the Heller Court meant by "increased scrutiny". They haven't granted Cert (i.e. agreed to hear a case) in this area, since any ruling by them right now, after the death of Justice Scalia, would almost assuredly mean a 4-4 affirmation of the Circuit Court decision under appeal, which would have no precedential value outside that Circuit, just perpetuating the Circuit split. The next Justice will swing the Court one way or the other, and, as a result, the Court will very, very, likely accept a 2nd Amdt. case to settle the Circuit split.
I should add that my partner really loves the anti-Crooked Hillary ad running right now that shows a woman talking about protecting herself from rape by owning a handgun. She (my partner) was raised by a mother whose father was a cowboy, and who taught her to shoot at a young age. She has never been a victim, and has long had guns in her house for self-defense.
Good to see that Crooked Hillary is having her feet held to the fire a bit over gun rights and the 2nd Amdt. She said that she supported Australian style gun buy backs, which means that she supports gun confiscation, with the govt. having to pay just compensation (under the 5th Amdt) for the guns seized - since the Australian gun buy back was mandatory, not voluntary, and, thus, essentially constituted confiscation. Definitely one of those places where a bit of research, instead of relying purely on ideology, would have been advantageous.
Another place where she has vowed to act, is in regards to gun regulation. The BATFE operates pursuant to a number of regulations that it has promulgated over the years to implement US gun laws. And, since the gun laws, on the books, at the federal level, are not going to change in the foreseeable future, this is her best avenue for change. She has already talked about changing the requirements for requiring background checks. This can be done by reducing the level at which someone is considered to be in the business of buying and/or selling guns. Drop it to a single transaction (not likely viable), and everyone needs to get a federal license to buy or sell a gun, and, thus, requires a significant background check. Any time that you hear about the bogus "gun show loophole", what you are really hearing about are private transactions where people loan or sell guns individually. And, that is how the regulations would be phrased - closing that bogus "gun show loophole". Of course, a compliant Supreme Court would be essential to pull anything like this off. Other places to look for changes are in the current regulation that allows 80% complete lower receivers to evade serial numbers, access to silencers, etc.
My most dreaded part was when they talked about being presidential and they both used the time to attack the other. The dreadful part, of course, is that they were both right--they are both horrible people. There is no right choice in this election. They are both horrible people and one of them is about to become a horrible president.
“There was even a time when he didn’t get an Emmy for his TV program three years in a row and he started tweeting the Emmys were rigged against him,” she said.
Trump interrupted her, saying, “Should’ve gotten it.”
If Trump doesn't win an Emmy award, it is rigged. Ditto the election and anything else.
A sign of a bully and loser.
Like so many people said from the start, the Trumpsters have been conned.
Your "I am a winner" Trump is a loser.
Not that there was much chance at this point, but Trump basically ensured he would not be reaching voters not already inclined towards him. Forget for a moment the self destructive things he said during the debate, and constant taking of Clinton's bait (after the previous two debates you'd think this "spectacular brain" would have figured out what she was doing)--he proved, contrary to his supporters' claims, that he does not have what it takes to go after her. Even when Chris Wallace was pushing hard against Hillary on her double-faced statements, Trump either interrupted, changed the subject, or proved he did not have any knowledge to pin her further and make her squirm on television. She is not a formidable candidate! If you can't take down an easy target, you're not ready for prime time.
Also, when he did try to drive home attacks on her, he made passing references to things (e.g., the O'Keefe video) that most viewers don't know the details of. He just assumes that everyone is like him and eats up Breitbart and Drudge all day, which is great for his hard core fans but not so much for the rest of the country. So most people hearing "she incited violence at my rallies" were thinking "what the hell is he talking about?" Maybe next time set up what you're referring to?
Or "those women's stories were debunked". Ok, maybe don't assume anyone knows what debunking you're talking about? I follow the race closer than the average viewer, and I don't recall any debunking (I do recall Trump denying the accusations, but that's not debunking). Why not debunk now, when everyone's watching? Hell, he would have done better to simply point out that sometimes when two people flirt one makes a move, it gets rejected, and that's the end of it and they regret it. Instead he let Hillary portray it as him being some predator, and all he can say is "all those women are lying". When his credibility with most Americans is already shot, they're not going to buy that.
I suppose something could still happen in the next few weeks, but the window is fast closing. GOP better hold at least part of Congress.
A sign of a bully and loser.
Hey! Who just was forced out of his job for admitting sending thugs to Trump rallies to incite violence and create an air of chaos? Hint: Been to the White House 300+ times, and about 40 more times he met personally with Obama!
tim maguire said...
My most dreaded part was when they talked about being presidential and they both used the time to attack the other. The dreadful part, of course, is that they were both right--they are both horrible people. There is no right choice in this election. They are both horrible people and one of them is about to become a horrible president.
Yes.
PB&J, as usual, lying and spinning like crazy.
He's probably not lying, he's just not very bright, and he is counting on Hillary to protect rich folks like himself from the deplorable losers out there who scare him.
Bruce Hayden; those are some great gun-ownership-rights arguments that you make. It's too bad, that Donald Trump seems incapable of making them in any sort of detail. I think it is because Trump has never really been part of any gun rights movement in his entire life. For Trump, gun rights are like abortion and "Two Corinthians." They are concepts that he's seen people talk about on tv, and he has a vague idea what he's supposed to say, at least what side he is supposed to be on, but not much more.
Althouse called it early on. Trump has a disordered mind. But Rubio comes out a couple days ago and says we shouldn't be talking about Wikileaks, demonstrating why the voters were wise to reject him.
I didn't watch. I see the Terrible Trump Threat today is that he didn't say unequivocably that he'd accept the looming defeat.
Once again: The Mainstream Press takes him literally, not seriously.
Seeing the clip, I just hear a showman. "Stick around, it ain't over yet"
A similar gotcha question to Hillary would have been: After the Election, will you release your full health history? This, of course, was not asked.
"My most dreaded part was when they talked about being presidential and they both used the time to attack the other. The dreadful part, of course, is that they were both right--they are both horrible people. There is no right choice in this election. They are both horrible people and one of them is about to become a horrible president."
In a weird way, it's relaxing--imagine how we'd feel if we were looking at a close election between someone who was clearly going to be a good president and someone who definitely would be horrible. We'd be stressed out! Instead, we can stockpile canned goods while we watch two old friends argue over which would explode the deficit and waste more Americans in the Middle East. Surprise--both of them!
"Bruce Hayden; those are some great gun-ownership-rights arguments that you make. It's too bad, that Donald Trump seems incapable of making them in any sort of detail. I think it is because Trump has never really been part of any gun rights movement in his entire life. For Trump, gun rights are like abortion and "Two Corinthians." They are concepts that he's seen people talk about on tv, and he has a vague idea what he's supposed to say, at least what side he is supposed to be on, but not much more."
Trump has as recently as Sandy Hook praised Obama's gun control proposals. This is a coddled celebrity know-nothing with a Jenny McCarthyesque mentality who decided to pretend to be a right winger long enough to run for president. And it worked on just enough people that the GOP is looking at disaster in a year that should have been their due.
Don't worry, we'll hear plenty about how Trump getting 34% of the vote is much better than any of his 19 primary opponents would have done, and the GOP deserved to lose big anyway because they just want open borders to please their international financier masters. Whatever helps them sleep at night.
Trump has as recently as Sandy Hook praised Obama's gun control proposals. This is a coddled celebrity know-nothing with a Jenny McCarthyesque mentality who decided to pretend to be a right winger long enough to run for president. And it worked on just enough people that the GOP is looking at disaster in a year that should have been their due.
Don't worry, we'll hear plenty about how Trump getting 34% of the vote is much better than any of his 19 primary opponents would have done, and the GOP deserved to lose big anyway because they just want open borders to please their international financier masters. Whatever helps them sleep at night.
That... all over the internet.
Thank you!
Trump is a plant. Nobody could be this bad on purpose. And if he is this bad, then shame on us for picking him. GOP base = duped.
Nothing new last night save Clinton didn't even bother denying her campaign tried to sabotage Trump events. Which makes me think she's worried she's on tape. They got Abedin on tape saying Clinton would be for more immigration than she admits to, so you have to wonder what else they have
Matthew, then it would have been nice if Wallace had squeezed her on that. However as the media conspiracy only works one way, he was probably not pre-loaded to exact such a quote. Aside from apparently giving her twice as much time, though, he seemed to do a pretty good job, at least in comparison to the other moderators.
The Democrat Media Industrial Complex Press are exploding over Trump's plan to keep people in suspense over accepting election results.
I don't care about that. The hack press sure does.
"Moving into the White House would be a "step down" for his father, Donald Trump Jr. told a Fox News reporter after the third presidential debate Wednesday."
all you need to know...
And EVERY NEWSPAPER in America has the same headline today, that "Trump will not accept the results of the election", which tells you everything about why he shouldn't.
Do we need more than one newspaper if they are all an echo chamber of propaganda?
The DNC was caught ON VIDEO openly saying they will cheat, yet they want Trump to commit to accepting the results, when the media is already saying that the Crooked Old Lady "won".
Orwellian. They would not be attacking Trump 24/7 if he was "losing". The polls are a lie.
Such a nasty woman.
"Nothing new last night save Clinton didn't even bother denying her campaign tried to sabotage Trump events."
She didn't have to because Trump made the allusion without context and the people that will decide this election don't know about all that stuff. Clinton is a lot of things, but I don't think "worried" is one of them. She got the best gift any opposition party can give a candidate.
"Trump is a plant. Nobody could be this bad on purpose. And if he is this bad, then shame on us for picking him. GOP base = duped."
Let's just say IF Trump has actually been trying to win the general election, then his level of incompetence is frightening. It sort of explains why he's in so much debt to dubious sources that he doesn't want to reveal. He's nothing but a celebrity pitchman with a waning brand, trying to make one last score to save what he sees as a marketing empire.
"I don't care about that. The hack press sure does."
But he has them talking about him, and in TrumpBrandWorld, that's what really matters.
When this is all over, he may pull himself out of debt and finally be able to criticize Putin again.
I hope the Trump-Hannity media empire collapses quickly. Are they going to ruin 2020, too?
Election fraud is real and it's democrats pushing and partaking in the fraud. That's why I don't mind Trump talking about it. Like most subjects, Trump doesn't capture the moment and the reality of voter fraud, he mashes it up with his ego.
Everyone likes to rag on Romney - but his declaration that Trump is a con man and a fraud - he was right.
Speaking of fraud, I just found this in today's wikileaks dump:
On Mar 8, 2015, at 7:56 AM, Jennifer Palmieri > wrote:
Suggest Philippe talk to Josh or Eric. They know POTUS and HRC emailed. Josh has been asked about that. Standard practice is not to confirm anything about his email, so his answer to press was that he would not comment/confirm. I recollect that Josh was also asked if POTUS ever noticed her personal email account and he said something like POTUS likely had better things to do than focus on his Cabinet's email addresses.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/21779
"I have known I was going to vote for Trump since he won the nomination. If, in fact, he came out on the stage with a sack full of puppies, and fed them, one by one, to an anaconda, I would still vote for him. And I suspect most of the people who are going to vote for Hillary feel the same about her. What kind of a low-grade moron would you have to be to be undecided about this election?"
What low-grade moron (or heartless bastard) would vote for a candidate who would feed a sack full of puppies one by one to an Anaconda? What low-grad moron believes that either of these candidates will do shit for the American people?
"What low-grade moron (or heartless bastard) would vote for a candidate who would feed a sack full of puppies one by one to an Anaconda?"
If Trump had done that he might have done less damage to his candidacy than he did in these debates.
Remember in 2008 when SNL spoofed on the Sandlers for causing the housing market crash, and it got edited out for the replay?
Here are Hillary's people freaking out about the skit:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/21779
He is still in touch with Podesta constantly, but Hillary blames the 2008 financial crisis on high taxes (or at least she did in the first debate)
""Moving into the White House would be a "step down" for his father, Donald Trump Jr. told a Fox News reporter after the third presidential debate Wednesday."
Machine is an appropriate name. Most Machines have zero sense of humor.
"He is still in touch with Podesta constantly, but Hillary blames the 2008 financial crisis on high taxes (or at least she did in the first debate)"
That's part of the shame of this all. Hillary made a lot of ridiculous statements in the debates, namely to connect the financial crisis to low taxes, and she did this in at least two of the debates. Trump either was too preoccupied to challenge her on this or just decided he had more important things to talk about.
Never mind your own armchair quarterbacking, Brando, do you have any reason to think that Romney or McCain or RoboGOPster would process the information in real-time and deliver the answers you desire better than Trump? Resisting push back and distraction?
For me, this debate will be memorable for a presidential nominee praising Bashar al-Assad, a dictator who repeatedly mustard gasses his people, by saying he's better than Obama. Deporable isn't a strong enough word.
Press across the board shocked! Trump didn't claim he would relinquish his ability to contest results no matter what actually transpires.
Shocked!
I thought his ramblings regarding the court and the constution were crappy..but the headline creating bit..especially the "I'll keep you in suspense" bit I am fine with.
The press should hope they are characterized as part of the "rigged media". Otherwise they are idiots when it comes to this sort of thing.
"Never mind your own armchair quarterbacking, Brando, do you have any reason to think that Romney or McCain or RoboGOPster would process the information in real-time and deliver the answers you desire better than Trump? Resisting push back and distraction?"
I don't think it's expecting too much for a candidate to actually prep for the debate, have some ready thoughts for likely questions, and avoid getting so easily baited when it's obvious after the first debate that that's what Hillary was doing. Yes, I think Romney or even Trump's youngest son could have listened to advisers and figured that out. I heard reports that Trump didn't practice at all, and after three debates I find that believable.
Let's not lower the bar here. I don't expect rhetorical brilliance, but even a moderate amount of prep could have done something with these opportunities.
I think he did a lot. Not perfect, but like campaigning, this skill will never be used in any other venue. I've debated and it is hard; and also, it is somewhat artificial. She was also not very good, BTW.
But the point is, you're not actually doing the work of POTUS off the cuff, you generally have the chance to sit, think, ask questions, look things up. So it is just a game in that sense.
It would be nice if he was better at it.
But his skill or lack is not what would make him a good President.
"I thought his ramblings regarding the court and the constution were crappy..but the headline creating bit..especially the "I'll keep you in suspense" bit I am fine with."
-- I still at least once or twice a month hear "selected, not elected."
So, if Trump wants to join Gore-level delusions, whatever.
"'What low-grade moron (or heartless bastard) would vote for a candidate who would feed a sack full of puppies one by one to an Anaconda?'
"If Trump had done that he might have done less damage to his candidacy than he did in these debates."
I don't know, as I didn't watch it, but this recap makes Trump seem more appealing than Clinton, (not that I would ever vote for him--or her).
Matthew Sablan said...So, if Trump wants to join Gore-level delusions, whatever.
--
Well..given things being discovered and the overall weirdness of the campaign, he would look like a fool to say otherwise.
not that I would ever vote for him--
Aw, c'mon, Cookie! Just for me?
@Robert Cook: Those were great. I especially liked: Liberal and conservative establishment condemn Trump’s insistence that elections are rigged. They say it “undermines faith” in our Democratic institutions. Good for Trump. For proof, we don’t need to go back to the Chicago miracle in 1960, Florida in 2000, Ohio in 2004. Just consider the evidence from the Democratic Primaries of this year.
What low-grad moron believes that either of these candidates will do shit for the American people?
Here is the flaw in your premise. Nobody who isn't a moron wants the government to do anything to and or for them. There is very little that our government is constitutionally obligated to do. Most reasonable people would like it if our government just stuck to that.
"Here is the flaw in your premise. Nobody who isn't a moron wants the government to do anything to and or for them."
The entire purpose of government is to serve as the means by which the sovereign authority of the state, (in our case, purportedly/theoretically), we, the people--manages the functioning of society. We send representatives to Washington to serve us, to pass laws and manage society for our benefit, using our pooled money to do so. In a self-governing society, the government's purpose is whatever the people decide it to be.**
If this is not the purpose of a government, what purpose does it serve? Do you want to build your own roads and bridges and train tracks between yourself and your neighbors in your town or across the nation? Do you want to organize your own local militia to serve as law enforcement in your community? Do you want the fire departments or the schools to be populated with non-paid volunteers? Do you want to trust that any medications or foods being sold to you are safe and not dangerous to your life or health? Do you want to trust that business entities large or small are not cheating you? Perhaps in a small village society of no more than a few hundred people, this is practicable; in a society of thousands, of millions, of hundreds of millions or more, it is impossible.
You right wing kooks who think the government is supposed to stand back and let "the market" manage our affairs are just that: kooks.
**(We do not have a self-governing society presently; our authority over the state has been usurped the wealthy and powerful, who buy "our" representatives to serve their interests.)
Robert Cook calls ne a "kook".
The irony.
Do you want to organize your own local militia to serve as law enforcement in your community? Do you want the fire departments or the schools to be populated with non-paid volunteers? Do you want to trust that any medications or foods being sold to you are safe and not dangerous to your life or health? Do you want to trust that business entities large or small are not cheating you?
Cookie, while I seldom agree with you, I do respect you. But just take a good look at these questions and ask yourself if the government is doing an effective job in these areas. Does the FDA really test foods and drugs for safety, or are they in cahoots with Big Pharma and the big food industries? Business entities cheating us? Hell, yes, and with the help of Congressmen on their payroll. And non-paid volunteers might just do a better job of teaching than the paid incompetents we have now.
Ideally, yes, we should have the type of government you describe. But the bigger it gets, the further it pulls away from these ideals.
@mockturtle:
If you read my asterisked comment at the bottom of my post, I acknowledge the problems you point out. This is not the fault of government per se, as any society of more than a very few people must have government of some kind; it is the fault of a government that is corrupt and has been bought by the financial elites, a government that is no longer responsive to or acts in service of the people, but acts as a tool of the predators, rather than a defense against them.
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