July 11, 2016

What does Black Lives Matter think about gun control?

In "After Dallas, the Future of Black Lives Matter," in The New Yorker, Jelani Cobb interviewing Alicia Garza, the co-founder of Black Lives Matter, asks about guns: "Does Black Lives Matter have a position on that? Is that something that you all have thought about in the wake of those incidents?"

Garza says:
When it comes to gun control, I think it’s too simplistic of a conversation. Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right. It is a part of a culture that is largely protected by special-interest groups like the N.R.A., but the right to bear arms, it seems, only exists for white people. When black people have arms, legally, they can still also be killed at the hands of the police. That’s what we saw this past week.

At the same time, because it’s a question of police and vigilante violence is so prevalent at this particular moment in this country, it feels asinine to be calling for gun control when black people, in particular, are on the losing end of that conversation, so there’s that. But then there’s the reality that, in this country, we have more guns than people, and we put guns into the hands of more people than any other country on the planet, and so that dynamic needs to be shifted. I’ll be honest with you, I really struggle with the conversation around gun control.

It’s clear to me that this person who committed these acts was not well. And also was experiencing a level of emotional trauma, like the rest of this country, in particular like the rest of black people in this country, who watched two executions on television, so his stated motive was, “I’m really upset by what I’m seeing where police are killing black people.”
At that point, Cobb sees reason to remind Garza that most people say "they want better policing" and not "that they want to actually kill the police." Garza answers:
I don’t disagree, but the point that I’m trying to make is, I think it’s an error to look at the state of why this country is so violent and not understand the complexities that lie underneath the violence. The violence that was caused by that lone gunperson in Dallas was very complex. It wasn’t about him being an adherent to black-power ideologies, as the media tried to frame it. He may have been pro-black, but he was also probably a lot of other things, and similarly when we look at the underlying causes for police violence, it’s also not black-and-white. It’s not always only about racism, or it’s not always about “police just hate black people.”
By the way, when the Dallas shootings took place, there were many people in the protesting crowd who were exercising their right under Texas law to carry firearms openly:
The Dallas police chief, David O. Brown... said the event had attracted “20 or 30 people” who “showed up with AR-15 rifles slung across their shoulder... They were wearing gas masks... They were wearing bulletproof vests and camo fatigues, for effect, for whatever reason.”

When the shooting started, “they began to run,” he said. And because they ran in the middle of the shooting, he said, the police on the scene viewed them as suspects. “Someone is shooting at you from a perched position, and people are running with AR-15s and camo gear and gas masks and bulletproof vests, they are suspects, until we eliminate that.”...

219 comments:

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Michael K said...

Ahistorical twerps:

Blogger machine said...
back in my day...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


"The Constitution is almost 100 years old !"

buwaya said...

Also, TIMMS concentrates on 4th and 8th grade scoring, which is not ideal. Scores in these grades is very amenable to improvement (all genuine successes in governance/curriculum/methods improvements happen prior to the 8th grade), however these uniformly disappear/don't persist in high school testing. The US has put massive efforts into preschool-K-6. But there is very little to show for it in the 12th grade.

The 2012 PISA is for 15-16 year olds - high schoolers - and I think better represents valid differences in pre-college education, but I am not so confident of comparable assessment methods as with TIMMS.

PISA 2012 results summary -
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/pisa-2012-results-overview.pdf

Jim at said...

"Yet I am the one who can walk down the street unarmed." - ARM

Please. Print that on a sign and hang one on both your front and back while walking down the street.

Let's see you get jacked up and then determine your mental capacity.

Michael The Magnificent said...

From my original source:

American PISA 2006 Science Scores:
USA Asians: 506
USA Whites: 512
USA Hispanics: 443
USA Blacks: 417

Apparently, they don't like to break out the scores by race anymore.

n.n said...

Black lives do not matter. Neither do white lives. And brown lives are also losing ground. However, the first-order cause of debased human life is abortion rites, not possession of a gun, or a scalpel, but the Pro-Choice Church that advocates for class diversity schemes (e.g. racism) and the religious/moral fantasy of spontaneous conception.

grackle said...

When the shooter targets black people the motivation is simple - racism.
When the shooter targets groups like children or black church goers the culprit is obvious - the NRA.


Seeing as how charts are all the rage on this thread, if you want to be able to predict MSM reactions to shootings all you have to do is consult the chart at the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/jv8j49p

The chart would be funny if it were not so sad that our “journalists” are so predictable.

Sebastian said...

"Apparently, they don't like to break out the scores by race anymore." TIMMS provides scores by state -- could be used as proxy. Would have to double-check PISA.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
I thought gun owners would welcome the opportunity to be 'out and proud'. You love your guns, you take them everywhere, show them off. Obligatory open carry, the next frontier.

There ya go. workin without tools again.

Original Mike said...

"Truncated Y axis?? How so? Please explain."

Science/math is not ARM's strong suit.

effinayright said...

Earnest Prole said...
Fifty years ago in California the Black Panthers asserted their constitutional right to openly carry firearms.

>>>Oh really? Without needing to get a license to carry? If it's a "constitutional" right, then why don't all states allow it? Free clue: it was a state law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

Conservative white Californians convinced then-governor Ronald Reagan to repeal that right.

>>>Oh really? Repealing a state law, not a right.

Here's a little context:

"[Huey] Newton studied California gun law until he knew it better than many police officers. Like the Community Alert Patrol in Los Angeles after the Watts Rebellion, he decided to organize patrols to follow the police around to monitor for incidents of brutality. But with a crucial difference: his patrols would carry loaded guns.

[35] Huey and Bobby raised enough money to buy two shotguns by buying bulk quantities of the recently publicized Little Red Book and reselling them to leftist radicals and liberal intellectuals on the Berkeley campus at three times the price. According to Bobby Seale, they would "sell the books, make the money, buy the guns, and go on the streets with the guns. We'll protect a mother, protect a brother, and protect the community from the racist cops."[36]"

"From the beginning, the Black Panther Party's focus on militancy came with a reputation for violence.[44][45] The Panthers employed a California law that permitted carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun as long as it was publicly displayed and pointed at no one.[38] Carrying weapons openly and making threats against police officers, for example, chants like "The Revolution has come, it's time to pick up the gun. Off the pigs!",[46] helped create the Panthers' reputation as a violent organization."

"In May 1967, the Panthers invaded the State Assembly Chamber in Sacramento, guns in hand, in what appears to have been a publicity stunt. Still, they scared a lot of important people that day. At the time, the Panthers had almost no following. Now, (a year later) however, their leaders speak on invitation almost anywhere radicals gather, and many whites wear "Honkeys for Huey" buttons, supporting the fight to free Newton, who has been in jail since last Oct. 28 (1967) on the charge that he killed a policeman ...[55]"

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party)

Kinda adds perspective, doesn't it....at least to a person interested in the facts.

khesanh0802 said...

Late in the day and will look for a place to repost this tomorrow: Harvard Study Debunks Shooting Myth

Tank said...

@802

Hate facts

Michael K said...

"at least to a person interested in the facts."

Around here ? :)


effinayright said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Earnest Prole said...

wholelottasplainin’:

distinctions not cost-effective, but if they were, we would be in violent agreement

Unknown said...

Part of the Alabama law seems to make sense in this situation

"You may not possess a firearm while participating in or attending a public demonstration. Nor may you possess a firearm on your person or in a vehicle within 1,000 feet of a demonstration, after being advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration is taking place and that you must leave the area until you no longer possess the firearm. This does not apply to firearms kept in homes or other private structures. (Alabama Code § 13A-11-59.)"

love johnson said...

As to the person who was open carrying an AR-15 at the rally (legally) and was initially tweeted out as a suspect/person-of-interest, per the Dallas Morning News the next day, he stated that he took the weapon to the rally as was his 2nd Amendment right......however the gun was not loaded.

I have a carry permit in Texas and personally I don't see the point of having a handgun with me that isn't loaded. It would have been a tragedy had he been mistaken for one of the shooters in the chaos, shot by the police and then it was discovered that his weapon was un-loaded.

damikesc said...

Fifty years ago in California the Black Panthers asserted their constitutional right to openly carry firearms. Conservative white Californians convinced then-governor Ronald Reagan to repeal that right. If progressives had an ounce of strategic sense these days . . .

Why can't Chicagoans carry pistols?

Because a Mafia made man got elected by the Dems and pushed to get legislation passed to ban it.

Cute, huh?

Actually, our educational system is just fine. American Asians and American Whites score quite well internationally. It's Blacks and Hispanics that drag down our average score.

Sad, but true. If you deep dive our numbers, TX schools are slightly better than schools in WI at every racial group (i.e, Texas Hispanics outscore WI Hispanics) --- but because they have so many more minorities, they end up below WI in most statistical measurements.

Rusty said...

"The NRA has the race wars angle locked up already. All the Dems have left is the sensible middle. Different times. Different times."

Boo! You proggs really give the NRA too much credit. There are only a couple of million members and there are 100 million gun owners.
You have yet to make an argument for, "the sensible middle."

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