Althouse: "If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk."

July 9, 2016

"If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk."

Said Newt Gingrich (after the Dallas massacre).

218 comments:

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MisterBuddwing said...: If you run a small business, and you see that people in a particular group are more likely to steal from your store than people from another group - is it prejudice to act based on this empirical observation?

So you fall into the "Yes, blacks get treated differently, but that's because they have a huge image problem that they've brought on themselves" category that I mentioned above.

BTW, when I talked about "lumping," I was addressing Qwinn's desire to lump me in with people he/she disagrees with in attempt to hold me personally responsible for something someone else said. That, I think I have every right to object to.; 7/10/16, 5:26 PM
Hyphenated American said...: It's amusing that I talked about actual empirical evidence, and you try to pretend that it is about an 'image problem'' , a purely emotional issue. The reason for that is clear, liberals are trying to define down the term "prejudice" in order to fit their racialist agenda and in order to divide this country.; 7/10/16, 8:02 PM
MisterBuddwing said...: Not half as amusing as your apparent belief that an "image problem" can be utterly separated from reality. You talk about "empirical evidence," but where do you get the evidence from? First-hand experience, or what you see on TV? And if blacks are deserving of racial profiling (a highfallutin' synonym for stereotyping), how are they supposed to change the situation? By "cleaning up their act" and improving their "image"? (You'll note I said people on this thread were blaming blacks themselves, not liberals, for their image problem.); 7/10/16, 8:15 PM
Hyphenated American said...: "Not half as amusing as your apparent belief that an "image problem" can be utterly separated from reality. "

Oh, but why would you use the term "image problem", when the discussion is about observed, documented actual behavior?

"You talk about "empirical evidence," but where do you get the evidence from? First-hand experience, or what you see on TV?"

Youth crime
The "National Youth Gang Survey Analysis" (2011) state that of gang members, 46% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are black, 11.5% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in the year 2008 black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws and drunkenness.

Robbery
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, the black arrest rate for robbery was 8.55 times higher than whites, and blacks were 16 times more likely to be incarcerated for robbery than non-Hispanic whites. Robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the reverse.[43][44]

Victim Surveys
In 1978, Michael Hindelang compared data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (then known as the National Crime Survey, or NCS) to data from the Uniform Crime Reports, both from 1974. He found that NCS data generally agreed with UCR data in regards to the percent of perpetrators of rape, robbery, and assault who were black.[45] For instance, Hindelang's analysis found that both the NCS and UCR estimated that 62% of robbery offenders were black in the United States in 1974.[46]:327 A 2004 National Crime Victimization Survey report which analyzed carjacking over 10 years found that carjacking victims identified 56% of offenders as black, 21% as white, and 16% as Native American or Asian.[47][48][49]

Is this statistics true or not true?

"And if blacks are deserving of racial profiling (a highfallutin' synonym for stereotyping), how are they supposed to change the situation? "

I did not say who deserved what. I let you tell me - what would you be doing if you owned store, and specific group was more likely to steal goods than another group. What would you have done? Come on, I hope at least one liberal can give a straight answer. Will it be you?

"You'll note I said people on this thread were blaming blacks themselves, not liberals, for their image problem.)"

Again, you keep using the liberal term "image problem", as if it is something possibly removed from actual reality. Stop using it if you want to be honest. If statistics shows that blacks are more likely to steal from stores - then store owners will pay more attention to them. That's not "image problem", that's the only way for store owners to not go out of business, and to follow common sense.; 7/10/16, 8:48 PM
MisterBuddwing said...: Oh, but why would you use the term "image problem", when the discussion is about observed, documented actual behavior?

One never leads to the other? If "bad apples" result in the entire barrel being blamed, is that not an "image problem"?

Let's compare old grandmas and school kids - who is more likely to steal candy from a small store? Is it "prejudice" to act based on that empirical knowledge?

Better yet, how about comparing old black grandmas and black school kids? Or comparing black grandmas and white school kids? Or white grandmas and black honor students?; 7/10/16, 8:56 PM
Hyphenated American said...: "One never leads to the other? If "bad apples" result in the entire barrel being blamed, is that not an "image problem"?"

Sigh. An "image problem" can be due to actual empirical facts, or it could be based on prejudice and run contrary to empirical evidence. Are you denying that blacks commit disproportionate number of crimes? If not, then stop hiding behind the liberal "image problem" - and use correct terms. Why is it so hard to ask?

"Better yet, how about comparing old black grandmas and black school kids? Or comparing black grandmas and white school kids? Or white grandmas and black honor students?"

It's amazing, I ask you direct questions, but as a typical liberal you refuse to answer.... Let me try this again - so that everyone could see that when faced with reality, you run away...

I let you tell me - what would you be doing if you owned store, and specific group was more likely to steal goods than another group. What would you have done? Go ahead, hide once again behind "image problems"..... It's amusing.; 7/10/16, 9:03 PM
MisterBuddwing said...: It's amazing, I ask you direct questions, but as a typical liberal you refuse to answer.

Ha ha. Typical conservative - anyone who doesn't toe the line is a LIBRUL. (I can play that game too, you know!) I consider myself a radical moderate as well as extreme centrist - not unlike Prof. Althouse.; 7/10/16, 9:07 PM
Hyphenated American said...: Sigh. Let's try this once again - just so that everyone would be amused.... I ask you same question, and you will refuse to answer it.

What would you be doing if you owned store, and specific group was more likely to steal goods than another group. What would you have done?; 7/10/16, 9:15 PM
MisterBuddwing said...: What would you be doing if you owned store, and specific group was more likely to steal goods than another group. What would you have done?

Exactly what you'd want me to do: Be on total guard for one set of people, and totally letting down my guard for everybody close. Because life is that simple.; 7/10/16, 9:19 PM
Hyphenated American said...: "Exactly what you'd want me to do: Be on total guard for one set of people, and totally letting down my guard for everybody close. Because life is that simple"

It's rather amusing that you won't give a straight reply. Just won't. And we both know why, don't we.....

Now, let's try this amusing exercise once again.... Don't worry, I will keep pushing you, until you give an honest reply, or you will give up - because this is the way to treat liberals, push and push and push them with inconvenient questions.

What would you do if you owned a store, and a specific group of people who come to your store was more likely to steal goods than another group?; 7/10/16, 9:25 PM
MisterBuddwing said...: Asked and answered.

(I have to turn in now, but we can pick this up again tomorrow.); 7/10/16, 9:28 PM
Hyphenated American said...: "Asked and answered."

Oh, I am sorry, can you quote yourself - show me where you actually honestly said what you would do? Cause I don't see it. And if you cannot - then you lied....

P.S. This is how to treat liberals - push and push and push and made them drown in their own logical failure.; 7/10/16, 9:31 PM
Cameron said...: How much of the problem is caused by celebration and emulation of gangsta cultcha among young black males ? Act and dress like a criminal no surprise if you get treated as one.; 7/10/16, 10:47 PM
jr565 said...: ""If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk."
Said Newt Gingrich (after the Dallas massacre).

Just because you are black doens't mean you have some unique understanding of race. Its just a perspective. And it may be biased based on a perception that isn't borne out by reality.
Feminists have a distorted view of the world. THey see patriarchy. THey see rape culture everywhere. But just because they are females doesn't mean that their perception of rape culture is accurate. I'm a dude. I've never been to a patriarchical socieyt. i have never seen any law that is keeping women down, and there is no rape epidemic on campus. If anything there is rape HYSTERIA on campus.
Blacks, and I'll put this charitably, may be reading way too much into individual shooting to fit this template based on a world view that is not accurate. To put it less charitably. They are paranoid and delusional and think the world is out to get them.
How are we reading peoples minds? How are we assuming that EVER shooting fits this template of cops shooting black people because they are black.
If you think the world is out to get you you can always find proof that it is, because sometimes individuals are out to get you. but just because you have a personality that sees racism under every corner doens't mean that there is.; 7/10/16, 11:37 PM
mikee said...: Not only do I not understand Black oppression, I don't care. I believe the government should be blind to inconsequential differences between individual citizens such as race, ethnicity, national origin, religious preference, sexual orientation and political party.

That makes me the worst sort of person these days. When I was a kid, it was an ideal people violently protested to get our government to adopt.; 7/11/16, 7:26 AM
MisterBuddwing said...: Don't worry, I will keep pushing you, until you give an honest reply, or you will give up - because this is the way to treat liberals, push and push and push them with inconvenient questions.

What would you do if you owned a store, and a specific group of people who come to your store was more likely to steal goods than another group?

Here I am again, as promised.

Since you won't take snark for an answer, and apparently intend to stalk me until I give a "serious" answer, here is my (mostly) serious answer to your simplistic (as opposed to simple) question:

I would employ common-sense security measures for my hypothetical shop. That's a no-brainer. It would have electronic surveillance and maybe even security guards.

It's much easier to say what I wouldn't do.

I would not post a sign reading, "NO BLACKS ALLOWED." (I'm assuming for the purposes of this post that you're targeting blacks.)

I would not refuse to let blacks in. (I seem to recall a case in New York years ago in which a Korean immigrant shop owner - I think she sold jewelry - refused to buzz open the door to a black woman. I wonder what became of that business.)

The presence of a black customer or customers would not prompt me to go to "red alert" or whisper into an intercom, "They're here!"

I would not discriminate in terms of accepting payment, whether it was in the form of personal checks or cold hard cash. (OK, cash wouldn't be bad - from anybody.)

And I certainly wouldn't delude myself into thinking that I would be oh-so-much safer in the presence of exclusively white customers, especially if I owned/managed a 24-hour establishment and it was late at night.

That's it. That's the best I can do I can see no other way.

Your turn to be "pushed."

How would you answer your own question?

I'll meet you that question, and raise you one: What are you going to do if you get sued by the government (local, state and/or Federal) for discrimination?

(I guess all you can do is move to a state with very few non-whites in it - Idaho, perhaps?); 7/11/16, 8:31 AM
Krumhorn said...: I've said it before, Laslo is often the best part of my day

Our hostess should be thrilled to have attracted such an excellent commenter.

- Krumhorn; 7/11/16, 1:20 PM
Ceolwynn said...: what percentage of black people, know what it's like to be 'White' in this america ?

To live under an overpass while being a race declared to all have instant irrevocable, valuable, useful privilege ? ...although you might have to commit a crime and be arrested for it for this privilege to be of any use. regardless of your doing those things you still have that privilege and it is valuable and you need to "Check" it, whatever that is.

To walk past a white activist in the street with a message yelling "kill black people" ? or that you, and all your kind are the reason that people you never met are doing without ?

I have had these experiences. except the guy was yelling to kill white people. anyone ever hear a person on a public street advising the public to kill black people ? anyone ? doubtful ...

How about it being constantly assumed that you think your race is superior even if you do not ?

How about it being constantly assumed that you dislike other people for not having your skin, even if you don't ???

How about it being constantly assumed that you would favor one stranger over another because of their skin ? even if you would not ?

How about it being constantly assumed that you NEVER will experience prejudice even though it is unlikely no one can claim such a thing in a world full of gender privilege, sexual orientation privilege, education privilege, and even height privilege is proven to exist in the jobs market.

There will not likely be any Male college fund, heterosexual college fund, or asian / white college fund. even though those are the privileged classes ? in a nation where women are being granted more college degrees than males ?

if it is a social error, flaw, burden, or injustice that white people are unable to understand the daily situations of being black in america, why is it not discussed that black people obviously are making unjust assumptions about white people also based on their absence of understanding ?

because, many certainly are. and they don't seem to be concerned about their lack of understanding.; 8/28/16, 12:20 PM

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Althouse

July 9, 2016

"If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk."

218 comments:

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Althouse

July 9, 2016

"If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk."

218 comments:

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