Did he say something I need to remember, something I didn't already know or something I did know put in some alarming, urgent new way?
According to Ed Morrissey at Hot Air, Giuliani was "the emotional peak" of the night. Yeah, but what emotion was that? Morrissey said "Giuliani amplified the energy on the floor all the way to 11." But the show is for the home audience, the TV watchers, and I don't want Republicans amped up to 11 in my living room. Morrissey realizes this...
I’d say that no one up to that point captured the spirit of the convention better on the first night — and any dissension left over from the afternoon appears to dissipate entirely. Perhaps it might have been too intense for people at home, but the delegates ate it up.... but doesn't seem to want to have to admit that it's us people at home who matter.
For insight into the live crowd/home view problem that plagues podium speakers in a big room, reconsider the Dean scream:
SALZMAN: If you watch the clip in isolation, the one that played over and over again, it seems like he had this unhinged moment. But that's just not what happened....IN THE COMMENTS: Unknown asks: "Ann, do you ever consider that maybe you're too fearful?"
TRIPPI: The biggest mistake you can make in American politics is to provide ammunition for your enemies.
MORDECAI: We didn't understand unidirectional microphones. Dean refused to get media training, so he didn't either....
I've considered it and I've also considered that this post does not express fear. It expresses aversion to an ugly old man yelling at me through the television. He may have wanted to reach into my psyche and stir up fears that lie deep within, but I felt nothing but superficial resistance to somebody coming at me like that.
Unknown's full comment is actually: "Ann, do you ever consider that maybe you're too fearful? It's not flattering." And that's how men attempt to use female vanity to manipulate women. I should be afraid that I don't look pretty being afraid.
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75 comments:
"The biggest mistake you can make in American politics is to provide ammunition for your enemies" in the MSM. Prog ammunition for cons is all blanks.
Rank and file at home ate it up too. People like someone to yell for them.
Plus, we're worried. Reassure us rudy!
Ann, do you ever consider that maybe you're too fearful? It's not flattering.
I've noticed this since the primaries. All of these politicians seem to think that copying the yelling style of Trump and Sanders is what they need to do to get the support of the people. It's not their delivery that won them support, knuckleheads. It's their message.
Giulianni has mastered shouting at a room full of people. It wakes up the sleepy half of the audience. Then they will all remember what you said.
It's the masculine, bright light, yang trick. But in an intimate group whose attention you already have, a low soft voice is listened to more intensely.That is the feminine, low light, yin trick.
All I ever needed to learn, I learned in WWF shows.
For the last 25 years or more, the music I've been listening to, at home, is almost entirely jazz combo stuff or chamber music. Feels wrong having a symphony orchestra in my living room. Astrud Gilberto over Plácido Domingo.
I'll take everyone's word for it that Game of Thrones is excellent, but that's beside the point. I don't want that nasty stuff in my house.
Last night I watched the new episode of Angie Tribeca in real time, which is pretty unusual. It was a laugh riot, although I couldn't tell you anything about what actually happened. It is laughter that makes a house a home. Any kid who's watched his parents get divorced knows that.
What! You've never eaten dinner with a room full of NYC Italians?
Don't be such a mook!
Unhinged Rudi was great entertainment. After that poor Mrs. Smith things needed lightening up.
I watched the speech the scream came out of and I didn't even notice it. I knew later, after the uproar, but in the moment it was just part of rallying the troops. Whoever recognized that it could be isolated into a clip and used to destroy him is a manipluation genius.
You can catch more flies with flypaper than you can with vinegar, at least if you're after catching women.
I go with vinegar and baking soda myself, being a science guy.
Didn't watch, how many times did he use a noun/verb/911? His expiration date was some time ago. ok, cons love him ie he's preaching to the choir!
Apparently open carry only applies to guns and not booze in Ohio.
Friggin' Giuliani!
None of these characters have anything inspiring to say; there is nothing inspiring to say.
Inspiring is always followed by passing some bad idea into law.
Just do the nuts and bolts right and forget inspiring.
"It expresses aversion to an ugly old man yelling at me through the television," said the woman who has just spent the last nine months or so listening to The Bern scream at everyone all the time.
I saw Giuliani speak at an industry convention many years ago. I was extremely impressed - he was smart, funny, engaging, challenged us, seemed to be a real leader and evoked a strong reaction from the audience in the Q&A period.
So I stayed up last night to watch him speak.
Found it almost unwatchable. I hung in there, but barely.
Super disappointed.
If that's the convention vibe, I guess I'm not the convention type.
You cavil about flattery in post about ugly?
His expiration date was some time ago.
Holy crap! If anyone goes to clean out the lefties fridge...
Guiliani was not copying Trump and Sanders. He was unhinged last fall in a series of appearances, especially in New York for Walker. It has become his own style and no doubt why he was invited.
A friend of mine was in the room during the "Dean Scream" and said it didn't really come across so crazy in person. But on TV, that's the rub....
Rudy's speech was in many respects fine, but once he said that Trump anonymously donated to charity, by BS meter went off. This is a guy who brags about how charitable he is, and when fact checkers discover he didn't make donations he goes off the deep end. Not exactly the profile of a modest, secret philanthropist.
Stick to railing on Hillary--it's the best mileage you're going to get.
I found his delivery very odd. I didn't mind some intensity, but his speech pattern seemed off and even somewhat unsure. I had to wonder if he's had a minor stroke or something similar recently.
My small little 1st night convention report: I was sitting up in the nosebleed (guest) section with another couple (both guys were delegates, but handed off their badges to their alternates). (The four of us have been delegates/alternates at one time or another to previous conventions.) Anyway - we all agreed this was "red meat" night Rudy wasn't speaking to just the national audience - he was firing up the floor. They were going crazy - but if it's your first convention, "that's what you do" - go crazy.
I'm sorry, Ann, did you think that fearfulness looks good on MEN?
As for 'looks', nice deflection, but no one's attacking your appearance here, any more than if I said you look dishonest or selfish or cruel or superficial. Insert 'seems'if it helps you sleep at night.
Bottom line is; Scary implies fear. Your word, not mine.
It's not this one case, you use this theme from time to time. Search your own blog for your uses if scary, fear, afraid, fright.
It's all right to be timid, just own it. Or compensate by using salty language and other unpleasantness that you may think makes you looks tough.
There should be an Althouse the Church Lady tag.
Professor, you are body shaming Mr. Trump and insulting Mayor Giuliani's physical appearance. Where have your leftist bona fides gone??? This is bullying, without any doubt. Insulting people because they are fat, old and unattractive. Mean girls, anyone?
If you were in LA and said this in a post from your gym, the police would be looking to arrest you.
Unbelievable.
"Get off my lawn!!!" is what this speech evoked. Tone deaf to people who have been told to be scared for the last 15 years. At some point, you have to communicate with some other emotion.
Watch the clip at 5:30. Rudy does not know the difference between top and bottom.
"My small little 1st night convention report: I was sitting up in the nosebleed (guest) section with another couple (both guys were delegates, but handed off their badges to their alternates). (The four of us have been delegates/alternates at one time or another to previous conventions.) Anyway - we all agreed this was "red meat" night Rudy wasn't speaking to just the national audience - he was firing up the floor. They were going crazy - but if it's your first convention, "that's what you do" - go crazy."
Any tidbits on stuff that we watching at home might have missed--things like what we wouldn't expect? I've always wondered how much different it would seem on the floor of the convention compared to how it comes across on TV.
There should be an Althouse the Church Lady tag.
I'm laughing.
Isn't that Special.
Two trolls in a row. Hillary is laying out some dollahs this morning!
I admire Giuliani but he's a long way from perfect. I watched enough of this clip, I think, to decide he is way too shout-y for living room watchers. Basic speaking/acting technique (and I am just basic) is not to start out at max. You have a dynamic range, save the big stuff for a big line. Rudy comes across as a bit angry and alarmed --the content of his lines was a bit angry and alarmed as well, of course-- and that may be great in the convention hall, it gets old in a hurry.
I wonder if he had had a chance to try his speech with a different delivery? He's been in the game a long time, he would know how to prepare, wouldn't he?
Maybe there is inevitably a choice between playing to the house or playing to the unseen broadcast audience. And maybe in a political convention, where the content is such raw meat anyway, the choice is most acute.
Sorry, missed a word here: "and WHILE that may be great in the convention hall, it gets old in a hurry."
First you inspire, then you expire.
I had it on in the background with the volume on low. All conventions are boring. And few politicians are worth the time in listening to their speeches. I suppose the conventions serve the purpose to jazz up some people. But I suspect if you are someone who is already interested in politics you don't need to be jazzed to go out and vote. Getting out the vote is for those who aren't into politics.
I only watched a couple of minutes. He's good in interviews, but podium pounding is not his forte. Now someone like Jeremiah Wright really knows how to do it. A lot of female hearts really start fluttering when Wright gets righteous. Old white men can't rant.
It was a good speech. We can discount the opinion of liberals, a few Republican never trump elites and the crooked Dems.
My whole family enjoyed Rudy's speech.
How do you do it? If you are speaking to the TV audience, the people in the masses on the floor go to sleep. If you speak to the floor, the TV audience is scared off. As pointed out before, this is red meat for the floor, with most of the TV this early in the convention involving talking heads talking about their impressions of others' impressions of this or that. When you are talking law and order, Guliani is your guy. Cleaned up most of the violence in NYC, and was there for 9/11. Trump will be fine when he speaks, because he has spent so much time in that medium.
I didn't like Giulani's speech either - what I watched of it.
Thank you, Kathryn51, for your first-hand report.
That Unknown was not me.
Brando said...
Any tidbits on stuff that we watching at home might have missed--things like what we wouldn't expect? I've always wondered how much different it would seem on the floor of the convention compared to how it comes across on TV.
The folks at home see much more than we do so I don't have any tidbits. The one thing I know is that the Rules flap was not a "Stop Trump" movement. The Rules adopted last night will control the process four years from now. The non-Trump (that is, delegates that supported Rubio or Cruz or others) folks wanted to establish some FIRM rules for delegate selection in the future; instead it will devolve to the National Committee once again to do whatever they damn well please.
There WERE 10 (or 11?)states that signed a demand for a roll call vote. At one time, the rumor was that they couldn't locate the Secretary (conveniently absent) in order to deliver the document. When there was a 20-30 minute gap, the strong arming started - drop your State from the petition or suffer the consequences monetarily. My husband's delegation stayed strong (not going to say which state) - but they apparently pressured two (or three?) states to drop during that down time.
That's my one behind the scenes tidbit!
Kathryn51--thanks! Good to have an in-the-convention point of view.
Not surprised if Ann is a bit fearful. To some extent, these are fearful times. Making things worse, our media culture makes violence around the country, and elsewhere in the world, seem immediate and imminent. Nice, Dallas, Baton Rouge in the last week. Realistically, most of us are pretty safe. I face far more danger here in MT from wild animals than I do from human predators. Except for the unhinged Dems melting down in the face of their Republican governor's successes, Madison is probably fairly safe. Not like the hell holes in a number of lower income communities in long term Dem controlled cities where the level of violence is resurging, much of it with the tacit support of President Obama. But we mostly don't go there, for good reason. Making things worse, the jailers in the cities with these hell holes have the most draconian gun laws in the country, in an apparent attempt to disarm the law abiding, making them more vulnerable to the violent predators inhabiting them.
But to be a bit sexist, one of the things that I have noticed is that as I get older, we all get more fearful, and I notice it most with the women. I am a couple of months older than Ann, but have thought several times that I was lucky to be with a somewhat younger woman than the women I know my age for this reason. But it may also be because my partner has been shooting since she was young, having been raised by the daughter of a cowboy. I think that a lot of older women would prefer it if their husbands were a bit more fearful, not attempting stuff that they shouldn't at their age. (I am thinking in particular of friends of hers, where the husband was going up on ladders into his late 80s to do yard work, and the wife, detailed to hold the ladder, was a nervous wreck every time he did so). It is hard growing old, with the women getting more fearful, and the guys struggling to discover fear.
"It expresses aversion to an ugly old man yelling at me through the television."
Rudy Giuliani isn't an ugly old man. That's just your opinion of Republican politicians, very revealing.
Rudy Giuliani made New York City safe for people to live in and visit, in contrast to the New York of today, where a misstep in Central Park can trigger an IED. He's worth listening to and learning from.
Unknown's full comment is actually: "Ann, do you ever consider that maybe you're too fearful? It's not flattering." And that's how men attempt to use female vanity to manipulate women. I should be afraid that I don't look pretty being afraid.
You could argue the same comment could be made to a man, attempting to use male masculinity to manipulate. Don't look like a wuss -- that's not flattering! That's been told to men forever.
What's unknown: Is Unknown a man, a woman, a man transitioning to a woman, a woman transitioning to a man? The possibilities these days: endless.
To some extent, these are fearful times
All times are fearful times. Kids these days don't have to worry about global nuclear annihilation. I don't buy into the idea that these times are any more dangerous than any other decade.
@Big Mike, I misread that, at first, as IUD. And I'm all What???
He sounds insane.
He was a completely different mayor-pro-choice, gay friendly, supporter of gun regulations-a typical New York City republican.
He was a completely different mayor-pro-choice, gay friendly, supporter of gun regulations-a typical New York City republican.
He turned NYC from a shithole to something worthwhile.
BYW-Rudy is a very ugly old man.
It is a time for yelling. Ask the BLM people yelling incomplete sentences. At least he wasn't issuing demands.
"Watch the clip at 5:30. Rudy does not know the difference between top and bottom."
I know!
We replayed that over and over last night and laughed a lot.
"Unknown said...
That Unknown was not me."
So which frickin' unknown are you? Rhetorical.
If one can't see the absurdity of using the nic unknown, then maybe it's best that the many Althouse unknowns, do indeed, remain unknown.
>
We now return you to Rudy having a snit fit!
"I'm sorry, Ann, did you think that fearfulness looks good on MEN?"
Irrelevant. You didn't choose to make your remark to a man. The question is: Would YOU talk to a man like that? I say it's something you CHOOSE to do to women because you think it's effective. I called you on it and your response is to try (and weird length) to change the subject, which I'm interpreting as evidence of guilt.
"Professor, you are body shaming Mr. Trump and insulting Mayor Giuliani's physical appearance. Where have your leftist bona fides gone??? This is bullying, without any doubt. Insulting people because they are fat, old and unattractive. Mean girls, anyone?"
When did I have "leftist bona fides"? I have a tag "fat" and I'm been calling fat fat for 12 years. It's clear speech -- straight talk. We call skinny people skinny. We should call fat people fat. It's more shame-oriented to avoid saying it.
@Titus
Thanks for the reinforcement.
And happy milestone birthday.
And Titus, you would be a c-sucker irrespective of your sexual orientation.
That sort of "head shaming" could get you nasty looks in the faculty lounge.
Oh right..the target is a older white, male Republican.
Carry on..
If you all were properly processing whats really going on, you would be screaming at least as much, and considering moving to New Zealand.
Aside from his scary head or style, Rudy at RNC transcript part 1
Sorry Professor, calling fat people fat is now considered quite rude and you should apologize for it. Fat shaming should be beneath you. Of course, when Mr. Trump calls Rosie O'Donnell fat, it is an outrage, but you calling Donald Trump fat is no big deal.
Please reconsider and apologize to Mr. Trump.
Now, about the ugly part, what is the substantive critique of Mayor Giuliani's speech that is supported by calling him physically ugly. Would you advise a law student to call Justice Ginsberg ugly? She is objectively more ugly than Mayor Giuliani.
I consider you a leftist for two reasons: 1) you employ the classic leftist double standard, applying different rules based on the subject of your argument and; 2) you employ the basic (and only) argument pattern of a leftist - rather than engage on the substance of an argument, you use personal attack and ridicule. This is the "Mean Girls" method of argument recently made famous by David Letterman and then Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. However, these are comedians and you are a law professor.
Am I wrong to expect more from you????
I've always thought it was better to call someone fat rather than obese when describing someone.
"Blogger dreams said...
I've always thought it was better to call someone fat rather than obese when describing someone."
She wasn't describing him, she was mocking him.
Basil,
Am I wrong to expect more from you????
7/19/16, 2:18 PM
Yes. The professor has diminished amazingly in my estimation. And fast. It makes one wonder.
"She wasn't describing him, she was mocking him."
Yeah, I agree with you.
I think most people would say that Trump is overweight, that is the way I think of him.
It expresses aversion to an ugly old man yelling at me through the television.
Then
turn
it
off.
Blogger Titus said...
BYW-Rudy is a very ugly old man.
You obviously haven't met me.
I think most people would say that Trump is overweight, that is the way I think of him.
That body armor puts on a few pounds.
Ann: Irrelevant. You didn't choose to make your remark to a man. The question is: Would YOU talk to a man like that? I say it's something you CHOOSE to do to women because you think it's effective. I called you on it and your response is to try (and weird length) to change the subject, which I'm interpreting as evidence of guilt.
Sorry not sorry, I was busy at work. Yes, of course I would have said the same thing to a man, except less kindly. Might've used words like "coward," "chickenshit," or even "wimp."
You want more or would that be evidence of guilt?
Don't you die a little inside each time you try to snow people like that? <--unisex
"Yes. The professor has diminished amazingly in my estimation. And fast. It makes one wonder."
I bet Althouse is so very concerned that you no longer worship her.
"Please reconsider and apologize to Mr. Trump."
LOL! How many times have you people called Hillary fat?
Irrelevant. You didn't choose to make your remark to a man. The question is: Would YOU talk to a man like that? I say it's something you CHOOSE to do to women because you think it's effective.
Methinks someone's compensating for her somewhat less than critical coverage of Trump.
This seems like a silly quibble to make; I suspect you're upset with "Unknown" for different reasons. The point is whether an effective point is made or an effective conversation had. If you respond to whether someone calls behavior (there was no reference to appearance) "flattering", then he made an effective point. And I don't see how it's gendered at all. Lord knows that Trump the Narcissist would blow a gasket if you referred to anything he did or said as "unflattering."
It could equally be alleged that you're acting a sexist misandrist when admonishing male commenters for not "upping their game." What is that, a sexist ploy to appeal to the debasing presumptions around male competition? Huh?
No. It's just you trying to make your point effective.
We still have three and a half months to go in this circus. Let's try to stay objective.
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