The Dallas police chief, David O. Brown, said the gunman who was killed had “said he was upset at Black Lives Matter, said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people; the suspect said he wanted to kill white people.” He was especially upset at white police officers, said Chief Brown.... who is black....My link goes to the NYT which posits that this incident has "injected a volatile new dimension into the anguished debate over racial disparities in American criminal justice." That is, these murderers undercut Black Lives Matter by complicating the victims-and-brutes presentation.
“There has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement,” President Obama told reporters Friday morning in Warsaw....
July 8, 2016
5 Dallas police officers shot dead by snipers at a Black Lives Matter rally.
7 other police shot, plus 2 civilians.
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341 comments:
1 – 200 of 341 Newer› Newest»At this point, I think major police departments will be to exit black communities. This is already happening in Baltimore and, recently, 50 police officers left Dallas PD, citing low pay and morale. The police are going John Galt. And I think the inner cities will descend into violence.
The volitile new dimension is the whole point. Ratings ratings ratings.
It's entertainment and ratings and advertiser money.
The problem all round isn't stupidity but bad character.
Stupidity isn't bad but bad character is fatal.
So in all the chaos, the police didn't take the opportunity to shoot a bunch of innocent protesters? I'm astonished!
Having been deluged with online comments about the police shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota along the lines of, "We don't have all the facts yet! Shut up!", I'm fully prepared for the deluge of comments from people who claim to know exactly whom to blame for this atrocity.
First outrage in a while in which I haven't heard people saying, "I'll bet the guy's name was Muhammad!" (Which, I admit, is not impossible.)
RIP to the officers and condolences to their families.
Just when I was thinking that the horror of current events had finally muted Meadhouse. It's a dreadful event for us all, and I fear it can only further inflame racial tensions.
I'm curious to know the whole story of this shooting before commenting on it. It seems well-planned to me given the spontaneity of the demonstration.
I don't suppose a primer on Bayes' theorem is wanted.
It, and not racism, is why cops are fast to assume the worst about blacks they don't know.
You can't do away with math. It's right.
The solution is teaching better behavior and fixing the premise. That goes with teaching good character.
Who do we teach black kids to admire? Nobody good.
This is the predictable byproduct of the black lives matter movement. I'm NOT saying this is what the organizers wanted. It's just an obvious outcome of year-long protests that villainize the police as unrepentant racists who shoot innocent blacks whenever they can.
I think it is going to end up having been one hopped-up negro and a handful of folks who knew what he was on about. The BLM folks will either have a moment of critical self-reflection and adjust their approach (unlikely) or celebrate the outcome, which will lead to some hopped-up whitey committing an equally frightful action. No one really comes out ahead in this.
Let's apply the "Palin Rule" shall we? You know, the rule where Conservatives and Republicans were 100% at fault for Gabby Giffords because someone dug up Palin putting a target over her district.
That supposedly incited the shooter (who was a Democrat, as I recall) and thus the narrative was that Republicans tried to kill Gabby GIffords.
Well, Obama and the left have loudly promoted Black Lives Matter (never saying that anyone else's lives matter), so clearly they and the left bear 100% of the blame. And this time, it's not just semantics: Obama and the left and BLM have been pushing violence towards police officers. Hillary endorses BLM; when will someone ask her why her pet black group just murdered police officers?
Now, it's entirely possible this was Muslim; too. In which case, again it's the left that puts Islam on a pedestal and demonizes everyone else.
--since for some reason this lists my posts as "Unknown", I'll sign it. Vance.
I refuse to blame rhetoric for these assassinations or give any hot takes. I will not stoop to that level. I cried last night during my prayers. This country needs God, not another angry, partisan fight.
""injected a volatile new dimension into the anguished debate over racial disparities in American criminal justice." That is, these murderers undercut Black Lives Matter by complicating the victims-and-brutes presentation." Yeah, slight complication. Viewed from a different angle, however, people will see this as taking the BLM narrative to its logical conclusions: if you say you want to f*** the cops and fry them like bacon, this is what you get.
""The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers," Brown said." See, just like cops who leave the house every day wanting to kill black people. Let's call it even and blame guns.
We'll continue to reap what's been sown. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
I'm sure chanting "Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!" had nothing to do with random racists "acting stupidly" on the BLM's behalf.
The events in Dallas will make it much harder for the media to advance the BLM narrative.
The Dallas shooting occurred at a point in time when we are still attempting to understand what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana.
Meanwhile, earlier on Thursday Minnesota Governor Dayton stoked the fires: ""Would this have happened if those passengers, the driver and the passengers, were white? I don't think it would have," Dayton said.
Obama did the same: "The shootings are not isolated incidents, Obama said, but "are symptomatic of the broader challenges within our criminal justice system, the racial disparities that appear across the system, year after year, and the resulting lack of trust that exists between law enforcement and too many of the communities they serve."
“There has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement,”
Wow! What happened to the "police behaved stupidly"? The statement that really put us on the path to Dallas.
Looks likes getting the blacks all pissed off to make sure enough of them go to the polls to vote for the crooked Dems can have negative repercussions but the bottom line is the racist anti-American Obama got reelected. You've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelette, the end justifies the means and all that other liberal/socialist crap. Racial healing to come later after the crooked Dems achieve utopia, yeah.
BLM was founded on a lie in the first place. If the cop's testimony is true, this qualifies as a hate crime. It will never be described as one, mind you.
Having been deluged with online comments about the police shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota along the lines of, "We don't have all the facts yet! Shut up!", I'm fully prepared for the deluge of comments from people who claim to know exactly whom to blame for this atrocity.
Sorry you've been disappointed.
Want to fix the problem: Do away with public employee unions and do away with qualified immunity for all government employees. If a cop shoots somebody for no reason, he will have way less around to protect him.
AA wrote, "That is, these murderers undercut Black Lives Matter by complicating the victims-and-brutes presentation."
Very insightful.
At what point does the federalization of all police forces get puked out of some Democrat's mouth?
And it makes you wonder if that isn't the ultimate goal of all our leaders who fan these racial flames.
“There has been a vicious, calculated and (despicable) predictable attack on law enforcement”
The best thing about the Obama presidency is the racial healing.
LonelyWebcamGirl15:
What happened in Dallas has made me SO sad. I mean, people shooting other people because of color? Can't we see that this is really wrong? Like, stupid-wrong. Should I take off my top?
I know some black people at school: they wouldn't do something like this, they're almost like white people, really. Do you want to see my panties?
I wonder if there are black people watching me online right now. I hope they are sad, too. I would hate to think I'm being watched by someone who supports shooting the Police, that just makes me feel all icky. Shall I bend over now?
And meanwhile, I wrote a poem last night about Dallas and Peace and Togetherness . Did anyone read it?? Anyone?
Anyone?
I am Laslo.
Meanwhile, earlier on Thursday Minnesota Governor Dayton stoked the fires: ""Would this have happened if those passengers, the driver and the passengers, were white? I don't think it would have," Dayton said.
Bayes' Theorem. The only information the cop has is skin color. He goes to the probability of dangerous behavior given the skin color, which is much higher than for white skin color. That means he has to be very very hair trigger for his own safety.
Probability of dangerous behavior given skin color comes from how blacks behave in fact, not some ideal of equal before the law.
The fix is improve how blacks behave, which means teaching who to admire to black kids in a way that praises good character instead of gangsta behavior.
It's the only fix because Bayes' Theorem is common sense, and common sense isn't going to disappear, except in the sense it happens in 1984, where a lie is a means of silencing the population into submission, fearing to contradict it.
No blog post about the killings of the two black men that prompted this and other nation wide protests? If black people feel they aren't getting the protections they need to keep these deadly force shootings by cops from happening with such frequency, we may start seeing black vigilante groups and/or militias on the rise. We have the white militias, now it appears that the same phenomenon is happening in the black community. Distrust and dissatisfaction with government, frustration with being sitting targets, literally, of the very ones who are there to "serve and protect". While the anger and frustration is understandable, lashing out with violence during a peaceful demonstration won't help bring about change, it'll only serve to inflame further. How terribly, horribly sad for all the families who lost loved ones in the last few days. These 5 cops and two black citizens didn't desrve to be senselessly killed.
"And I think the inner cities will descend into violence."
Yes, and the BLM idiots will be able to do their own policing.
Chicago is a hell hole and it will get worse. A lot worse. I was there visiting family two weeks ago and we did not go downtown. The Dan Ryan expressway and the north Michigan avenue areas are magnets for black thugs.
Dallas is a heavily black city and they will pay for this behavior.
The other thing that is a bit ironic is that this will turn into a "Law and Order" election. Democrats lose Law and Order elections.
When the middle class was wiped out by offshoring the high paying factory jobs, all that is left is the coming race war.
God save us if the Vietnamese immigrants get pissed off...
"That is, these murderers undercut Black Lives Matter by complicating the victims-and-brutes presentation."
Yet, except for the single conservative commentator (whose father was a cop), Chris Cuomo and the rest of the CNN crew didn't skip a beat on their BLM promotion this morning. Celebrations of the cop killings at a Dallas 7-11 and on BLM# on Twitter aren't even newsworthy.
If black people feel they aren't getting the protections they need to keep these deadly force shootings by cops from happening with such frequency, we may start seeing black vigilante groups and/or militias on the rise.
That's entertainment. The MSM wants it. It's ratings ratings ratings.
Which is why you get blacks shot by cops stories free of any blacks not shot by cops stories. The narrative-supporting incidents rule the airwaves because ratings.
Blacks have to be smart enough, or failing that of good enough character, to see through the trick.
No blog post about the killings of the two black men that prompted this and other nation wide protests? If black people feel they aren't getting the protections they need to keep these deadly force shootings by cops from happening with such frequency, we may start seeing black vigilante groups and/or militias on the rise.
...except your biggest killers are still your own community.
I think Instapundit posted the question: "If you're upset about 'Institutional racism', think about who runs the institutions"
Hint: the party blacks support in overwhelming, nearly monolithic, numbers.
When I read "snipers," I think long range sharp shooters with rifles. Is that actually what was used here? I'm still catching up.
The comments I've been reading on sites like Breitbart reveal a new level of rage. Obama is not to blame for the shootings but he certainly must shoulder some of the blame for this rage that has boiled up on both sides. He has stepped into every big story that involves race, always chiding the police, the right, Christians, and presuming guilt before the facts have come out.
Worse than Obama's stirring of the pot has been the media who cry "Racist!" at every point ... at least when a Republican is involved. Witness the ridiculous coverage of Trump's six-sided star tweet. it is disheartening to the point of despair.
My personal feeling is, that the police departments are hiring cowards.
These cops are so scared of the public that Barney Fife looks like a medal of honor winner.
Want to fix the problem: Do away with public employee unions and do away with qualified immunity for all government employees. If a cop shoots somebody for no reason, he will have way less around to protect him.
I toyed with this idea in my head for a long time. But in light of recent events (last night, Ferguson, Trayvon), I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. First of all, cops that shoot somebody for no reason are being prosecuted. I can think of no recent examples of a situation where it happened and they weren't prosecuted (the only example of one shooting for "no reason" was the guy who shot that guy running away from him down in South Carolina).
Second - no one is trained to deal with split second decisions coming from hostile, fluid situations like what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana. Not only that, we only have the story from one side in each case. We know how that went with Ferguson and Trayvon. For that reason alone, I believe cops SHOULD have the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty. Which ironically, is the way the justice system is supposed to be set up in the first place.
Third - I grew up in Detroit in the 70's and 80's, where Coleman Young, once treasurer of the Communist Party of Michigan in the early days, hated police with a passion. They were paid less and worked in worse conditions than officers anywhere else in the country. If it weren't for the union in place, they would have been treated even worse.
I know it's the narrative that the police are part of government, which makes them part of the problem, but of all the police officers I know that have worked for large, democrat run cities, they're overwhelmingly conservative and have an adversarial relationship with their employers. This may be less the issue in smaller, safer cities, but if you can get a big city cop off the record, they'll tell you more about the crooked politics when it comes to their departments than you'll ever need.
Just my humble opinion.
As Belmont Club put it, the big tent philosophy has let every interest group onto opposite ends of a one-way-street and told them to floor the accelerator.
The narrative has trouble when they meet.
coupe said...
My personal feeling is, that the police departments are hiring cowards.
These cops are so scared of the public that Barney Fife looks like a medal of honor winner.
---------------------------------------
That's why they need people like you to fill the force.
Studies show that cops are less like to shoot blacks than whites but that isn't the politically correct narratve.
My cynicism just jumped to another level. The Amazon box down the right hand side of the Althouse blog just blossumed with a selection of Black Lives Matter apparel for me to buy. Key word search and link engines know neither context nor morality.
Bottom line, the blacks in Chicago are killing more blacks than the cops in the whole USA are.
Blacks are killing themselves in numbers that even Al Capone would be impressed with.
The sad thing is, the Democrats don't care.
All they have to do is declare martial law, and bulldoze the projects that are no longer livable, and legally execute everyone captured with a gun.
I think Democrats are scared of martial law.
Everybody still excited about the possibility of riots at political conventions this summer?
Wasn't the Sterling incident an example of the kind of anti illegal gun police action Obama wants stepped up?
"It's just an obvious outcome of year-long protests that villainize the police as unrepentant racists who shoot innocent blacks whenever they can."
This is obviously a tragedy. But I don't blame the *protestors*. I blame the *systems* that keep telling us that there is no way to police our communities without gunning down innocent people. Killing innocent people not a "cost of doing business." Our systems are doing a very poor job of weeding out sadistic and reckless officers and the Barney Fifes with a gun. Instead, a tragedy happens and we try to prosecute the individual cops. This is difficult because these are *usually* very tragic accidents committed by people that should never have been given a gun and badge in the first place.
Where is the anger toward the police unions that fight tooth and nail to keep bad cops on the beat? Here in Milwaukee the police chief dared *fire* a cop that killed a mentally challenged man in broad daylight. The police union then held a vote of no confidence. Until we get serious about firing bad cops, we will continue to have incompetent cops killing innocent people by accident. We can absolutely fix this problem, but do any politicians have the stones to lock horns with the police unions? I'm not holding my breath.
Unknown said If black people feel they aren't getting the protections they need to keep these deadly force shootings by cops from happening with such frequency, we may start seeing black vigilante groups and/or militias on the rise.
Here is the nut of the BLM worldview: Our FEELINGS matter more than the facts, therefore our illegal assemblies to spread racism and riots are justified."
The fact is that more unarmed whites are killed by police every year than any minorities; and this is true for gross numbers and percentages alike. BLM is a race-baiting movement built on a fundamental lie easily written on homemade signs: "Hands up. Don't Shoot!" This is a phrase never uttered by a perp and never done (hands up) by the thug it is attributed to in Ferguson.
We have a linguine-spined press that refuses to tell the truth and instead engages in hyping up controversy and racial friction for the eyeballs such "news" attracts to pages and screens. Black lives are being marginalized by TV and print "journalists" in the drive for ratings. And our cowardly, clueless president is a classic joiner inner, willing to jump on and off the anti-cop bandwagon with ease, claiming neutrality when convenient, yet ever-stoking the flames of passion to keep racism at a low boil in "his" community.
America could use a real leader. Too bad Obama ain't it.
The suspect reported to have shot himself, really died because of the detonation of a bomb...said we wll eventually find the IEDs.....Come on.....This was planned way before these protests were even thought about...
Matthew Sablan said...
When I read "snipers," I think long range sharp shooters with rifles. Is that actually what was used here?
'Sniper' is an accurate term here. I don't know if the term 'sharp shooter' applies, as I have no idea about their accuracy, and I don't know just how long the 'long range' was. But they were shooting from a distance, and targeting individuals ( police ), not just firing randomly at the crowd.
The events in Dallas will make it much harder for the media to advance the BLM narrative.
"BLM is the real victim" will be the media narrative by the time the nightly news airs.
Armed, white America will be the "real perpetrator."
"First of all, cops that shoot somebody for no reason are being prosecuted."
-- Cops that shoot people FOR reason are also sometimes prosecuted [and then sometimes exonerated.]
At the moment, the system is working-ish. We may want to get body cameras and maybe, since police shootings are relatively rare, find ways to toughen the review process, but, at the moment, the system is working well enough that it is fixable. I don't think we need to completely unmake it and start over -- even though, yes, there are some problems.
"“There has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement,” President Obama told reporters Friday morning in Warsaw...."
There has been a vicious, calculated and despicable SMEAR on law enforcement. by Obama the media, and anyone pushing Black Lives Matter and the idea that cops are out there shooting blacks because they are black. Every time there is an incident they immediately jump to conclusions and push this same narrative.
Obama said something to the effect of "Just because black lives matter doesn't mean that blue lives don't matter too" Well, why are you pushing Black Lives Matter then? That would fall under "All Lives Matter" and every time someone says "All Lives Matter" they have to rush back and apologize for offending black people.
Anyone pushing this narrative, these deaths are on you. You are despicable human beings who are pushing a race war. If it happens don't blame anyone but yourself.
"Everybody still excited about the possibility of riots at political conventions this summer?"
-- "Excited" is not the right word.
Barney Fife had only one bullet and he had to keep it in his pocket.
coupe wrote:
Bottom line, the blacks in Chicago are killing more blacks than the cops in the whole USA are.
on Memorial day weekend alone there were more than 60 shootings in Chicago. In one weekend And most likely most of those were black people both shooting and being shot.
Every time the cops pull back the crime rate goes up, because people in these communities have no problem killing one another. And unless the cops step in they kill each other MORE.
The media keeps pushing the narrative of white racist cops shooting black people because they are black, but why not have some accurate statistics? Is that too inconvenient for the likes of MSNBC?
Why was this operation run in Dallas, Texas? Because Soros knows that he Texans will fight back.
George Soros has given out big money for years paying for agitators to incite racial war in the USA. The FEMA guys are geared up now for Obama to declare their planned Martial Law when whites shoot back...like the Texans tend to do.
Charles Manson was before his time, but he was tuned into headquarter's plans.
Maybe some reality:
Does anyone expect that the police industry (if you will) is immune from stupid or scared cops, like maybe the one in Minnesota (if indeed, that's what happened there, as it appears on first look)? Does anyone really think that cop killed the driver because the driver was black, and that the cop was motivated by racial animus, or was this an overreaction by a cop who was temperamentally unprepared for the job? Why does this implicate every other cop?
Young black men, about 5% of the population, commit nearly half of all U S violent crime (to the degree that we can determine this number). Young black men are shot by cops in a lower percentage than young black men shoot cops, so in fact, cops are more victim than victimized when considering young black men. Don't read that much, do you? Both numbers are in the ⅓ range.
BLM is based on a lie. Ferguson is based on a lie. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a lie. The Freddy Grey police prosecutions in Baltimore, as we see, are all based on lies. And the President of the U S should not be encouraging radicals by calling police actions "racism" within hours whe he quite obviously has no facts on which to base that.
Here's how cops see the Baton Rouge shooting, as a perfect example. Don't break the law. If you do break the law, don't get caught. If you do break the law, and get caught, don't carry a gun in your pocket. If you do break the law, get caught, have a gun in your pocket, don't resist arrest. If you do break the law, get caught, carry a gun in your pocket, resist arrest, then stop resisiting when a cop puts a gun against you and says stop trying to pull your gun or I'll shoot. If you do all those things anyway, you can reasonably expect consequences, like getting shot.
If the cops tell you to do something, do it. Stop arguing, complain later, sue later, whatever. But when you have committed a crime, you don't get to debate with the cops. 'Racism" is not then a defense, it's a ploy to escape the consequences of your actions that cops hear day and day out.
Unknown: Let's apply the "Palin Rule" shall we? You know, the rule where Conservatives and Republicans were 100% at fault for Gabby Giffords because someone dug up Palin putting a target over her district.
Pointing out the hypocrisy and double-dealing of shameless grifters and ideologues accomplishes fuck-all, in case you haven't noticed. Are the Dems going to engage in self-reflection and change their rhetoric one whit? No. Is the MSM going to stop working for them? No.
As Browndog points out above, the APB dictating the "correct narrative" is no doubt already out, and within 24 hours every MSM mouthpiece from national pundit to twitter non-entity will be pumping out the merde on why right-wing haters are the root cause of all the violence.
So no, let's not apply the "Palin rule" or any other version of this "dems are the real racists!" ineffectual circle-jerk rhetoric. They don't give a shit, and neither do the people who vote for them.
Left Wing Radicals Kill Five, Wound 9: Left Wing Radicals Hardest Hit.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/no-confidence-vote-in-milwaukee-chief-flynn-nearly-100-b99381927z1-281078832.html
The last two votes of no confidence against the Milwaukee Police Chief:
* An officer broke protocol and killed mentally ill man in the park and was fired;
* Two officers handed a teenage boy over to Jeffery Dahmer and were suspended.
These are the types of characters that the police unions think are doing a "good enough" job.
It's hard to get facts on the MN shooting. Here's the most I have been able to find. There is video from after the shooting but besides being horrific it adds little to what actually happened. The victim was carrying and said he had a permit. In the training classes required to obtain a permit you are instructed specifically that if you are stopped while carrying you should tell the officer while you have put your hands where they can be seen. The next move is supposed to be initiated by the officer while you keep your hands on the wheel or the dash. I have a feeling that Castile moved when he shouldn't have - not to blame the victim - and that the cops did not control the situation as well as they should have. Mistakes on both sides leading to tragedy. As many point out our dear leader has not helped by his uninformed participation in the past.
There seems to be an assumption in some circles that there are white police officers who so hate blacks that they are willing to sacrifice their employment and freedom to kill a black during a routine traffic stop. As police officers they clearly know the consequences of that act and yet are willing to risk everything for the opportunity to shoot a black driver.
I referenced the year 1968 in the Norman Mailer comment thread a few days ago. Seems we have another bad year on our hands again. My son in-law is a cop in Maryland metro D.C. area and the family is worried.
I remember 1968. It really, really sucked. Bad. Like soul sucking bad. Anyone excited about this chaos needs a good slap. We need Reagan but Nixon's coming. Either one.
The shooters (the bad guys) had guns. The cops (the good guys) had guns but some of them got killed and injured.
Now, what is it that the NRA keeps reminding folks about? Oh, yes. "Only Way To Stop A Bad Guy With A Gun Is With A Good Guy With A Gun".
Well, that strategy worked perfectly in this case.
Expect the sales of guns to increase significantly this weekend and this circle of death will become greater in the (near) future (again).
At the moment, the system is working-ish. We may want to get body cameras and maybe, since police shootings are relatively rare, find ways to toughen the review process, but, at the moment, the system is working well enough that it is fixable. I don't think we need to completely unmake it and start over -- even though, yes, there are some problems.
Perfectly rational view, and one that is in alignment with my own.
"If the cops tell you to do something, do it. Stop arguing, complain later, sue later, whatever. But when you have committed a crime, you don't get to debate with the cops. 'Racism" is not then a defense, it's a ploy to escape the consequences of your actions that cops hear day and day out."
I know that when a cop stops a car that it is a dangerous situation for him so when I'm stopped, I behave in a way that assures him that I'm not going to be a threat to his safety so I follow his instructions.
"the only example of one shooting for "no reason" was the guy who shot that guy running away from him down in South Carolina)."
That guy seems to have shot the cop with his own taser. Take a look and see what you think.
And, by the way, check the name of the cop that shot the guy in Minnesota. Naturally, you have to go to British media to find out that his name is "Jeronimo Yanez" another white man, of course.
Unknown
"Expect the sales of guns to increase significantly this weekend and this circle of death will become greater in the (near) future (again)."
unknowntastic thinking there buddy, really unknownerific.
Is there a 1968 tag? This year has a 1968 vibe. It only looks to get worse going forward.
These are the types of characters that the police unions think are doing a "good enough" job.
First of all, situations like these are the extremely rare exception, not the rule, and pointing this out the way you did makes it look like it's the norm.
Also, read my 9:16 comment. I didn't used to feel this way, but if police unions are broken up, then you'll really see how local governments will scapegoat cops at the first chance they get. Remember, they work for politicians - if you think those politicians will be fair, you're naive.
It's true that cops are getting a bad name, especially by our media and politicians. This is what happens when you label them as a bunch of redneck racists.
But, that's cops. It's a large group, armed, with many friends.
What if you're just one guy? Suppose your name is Donald Trump and the media and politicians are constantly calling you Hitler and Racist?
I fully expect several people will try and kill Trump. Not just one incident.
I wouldn't assume this was done by BLM sympathizers. I think it would be wise to wait for a little more information, which we may well get in a couple of days.
My heartfelt condolences to the victims.
It is a very sad day for the country. The first groggy association I made upon seeing the Drudge Report headlines before six AM, while waiting for coffee, was to the JFK assassination. I am not sure that it wasn't correct - I suspect between this and the Orlando massacre we will see just as radical a social change.
I do note that there have been numerous disgraceful calls for violence at BLM demos, and that it doesn't appear to be confined to the US - the Toronto Pride march incidence was partly about police being allowed to have a float.
I think push is going to meet shove, and that the result will be explosive.
And, by the way, check the name of the cop that shot the guy in Minnesota. Naturally, you have to go to British media to find out that his name is "Jeronimo Yanez" another white man, of course.
I've not been able to find anything but isn't the officer in the other shooting Asian American?
I've not been able to find anything but isn't the officer in the other shooting Asian American?
Not sure, but if you haven't been able to find anything, you can bet the cop wasn't caucasian...
Police departments across the country are having difficulty attracting qualified recruits. This will add to the difficulty.
Unfortunately all the unemployed and underemployed Grievance Studies majors aren't applying to be police officers to show everyone how policing should be done. Much easier to lecture the rest of us on white privilege and police racism than to do something about it.
Apparently, according to the Police chief in Dallas, the shooter they were negotiating with said he was Angry, he was black, he wanted to kill white people and white police officers in specific, and he supported Black Lives Matter.
So, that answers that. Expect this story to be gone by Sunday, because it doesn't fit the narrative. Just like Orlando has vanished. The "Wrong person" killed all those gay people, so since the media has a really hard time making a gay Muslim Democrat like the shooter was into a Tea Party Christian Conservative (though they tried mightily hard to do so), it vanished.
This story will too.
--Vance
Mister Buddwing:
Having been deluged with online comments about the police shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota along the lines of, "We don't have all the facts yet! Shut up!", I'm fully prepared for the deluge of comments from people who claim to know exactly whom to blame for this atrocity.
It's probably racist of me to think this, but . . .
The news reports of the incident seem to describe the snipers are methodical and precise. Methodical and precise are, ah, not words one would typically use to describe the kinds of people who engage in these BLM protests -- they're a rabble riled up by semi-professional rabble-rousers. If they were bashing up police cars and throwing rocks, or shooting at police with handguns, or marching off to burn and loot Koreatown, I could easily imagine they were common-or-garden BLM. But that's not what we see here.
Perhaps the perpetrators here are BLM-aligned radicals with military experience? Honestly, I wouldn't be all that surprised to discover this was false flag.
The Freddy Grey police prosecutions in Baltimore, as we see, are all based on lies.
How did Freddy break his neck? I still don't know. And it's disconcerting.
MaxedOutMama said...
I wouldn't assume this was done by BLM sympathizers. I think it would be wise to wait for a little more information, which we may well get in a couple of days. "
I suspect that you are onto something. This has the 60's-70's commie progressive type vibe feel to it.
Well, that strategy worked perfectly in this case.
It did. He's dead. He didn't kill 50 cops, did he?
How did Freddy break his neck? I still don't know. And it's disconcerting.
We don't need to know what actually happened to conclude that there isn't nearly enough evidence to support jailing police officers because "something happened".
"If the cops tell you to do something, do it."
I know what you're saying, but this kind of thinking leads to tyranny. We are citizens, not subjects.
"We don't need to know what actually happened to conclude that there isn't nearly enough evidence to support jailing police officers because "something happened"."
That's not a good enough answer.
Perhaps the perpetrators here are BLM-aligned radicals with military experience? Honestly, I wouldn't be all that surprised to discover this was false flag.
You know, you can believe the first part without taking that long, long leap to the second part. I mean, like, Grand Canyon leap. There are plenty of disaffected, angry, black military veterans who could have gotten caught up in the BLM movement without being directed to by the government...
This is Alex Jones type shit...
"I have a feeling that Castile moved when he shouldn't have - not to blame the victim - and that the cops did not control the situation as well as they should have."
Yes, it's horribly tragic. Probably reaching for wallet or ID. He had little reason to go for his gun in that situation.
That's not a good enough answer.
It's going to have to be. Unless we want to start prosecuting people for things we believe happened rather than what we know happened. I suppose we could have a justice system like the old Soviet Union, where people were dragged off in the middle of the night and disappeared, but I'm kind of glad we don't. Because that's the next logical step.
Probably reaching for wallet or ID. He had little reason to go for his gun in that situation.
And once again, this is the type of crap that starts stuff like what happened last night.
EMD - you don't have any idea what happened. You can speculate all you want, but if you think the above happens on some regular basis, at least in comparison with all of the traffic stops all over the country that happen on a daily basis, then you've been reading Reason magazine for too long.
" when a cop puts a gun against you and says stop trying to pull your gun or I'll shoot. "
This is where the discrepancy in the Sterling case exists. The video eyewitness said that Sterling was not reaching for a gun, but that it was later pulled by police out of his pocket.
You also have to consider the case of the man in Fresno, CA. He was shot while laying on the ground.
"Unless we want to start prosecuting people for things we believe happened rather than what we know happened."
You're missing my point. It's not about prosecution. The investigation is obviously flawed if it cannot uncover what actually happened to Mr. Gray.
Blogger EMD said...
"If the cops tell you to do something, do it."
I know what you're saying, but this kind of thinking leads to tyranny. We are citizens, not subjects.
What's the other option?
Cop says pull over, you yell back, "Screw your tyranny man!"
Cop says show me your ID, you just keep walking?
Cop says, let me see your hands, you shove them in your pockets?
Because tyranny?
I don't think you know what tyranny is.
You're missing my point. It's not about prosecution. The investigation is obviously flawed if it cannot uncover what actually happened to Mr. Gray.
This doesn't have to be true. What were the stories the cops told about what happened? Did their stories match? Does what evidence exists match those stories? If so, then why is it a stretch to actually, you know, believe the cops' stories about what happened? Occam's razor, and all.
EMD -
I guess you missed the part where the Medical Examiner said Freddy Grey fell, hit the back of his head on a protruding bolt in the van - which left a distinctive wound - causing an immediately disabling injury which was the proximate cause of death. Since the injury caused an immediate paralysis, and the other prisoner in the van testified that Freddy Grey was up to and after the fourth stop banging his head on the partition and yelling, then the injury occurred between the fourth stop and the final stop, when Grey was discovered unrepsonsive and medical help summoned.
So Grey was not injured by the cops, which lead to the prosecution theory that the driver caused the death by a "rough ride", except that the other prisoner who was in the van, said the ride was fine, and the prosecution had no other evidence of a rough ride, so the prosecution was left with "they didn't seat belt him in."
What else don't you understand about the case?
Oh, maybe you also missed that the ME originally said this was an accident, and only changed to "homicide" under pressure from the DA, and then lied about it in court. Except she called it an accident if front of a half dozen police officials in a meeting.
Cop says pull over, you yell back, "Screw your tyranny man!"
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Duh.
khesahan0802 said...The victim was carrying and said he had a permit. In the training classes required to obtain a permit you are instructed specifically that if you are stopped while carrying you should tell the officer while you have put your hands where they can be seen. The next move is supposed to be initiated by the officer while you keep your hands on the wheel or the dash. I have a feeling that Castile moved when he shouldn't have - not to blame the victim - and that the cops did not control the situation as well as they should have. Mistakes on both sides leading to tragedy
My own guess is that the officer asked him for ID, he said something like "sure, and just so you know, I am legally carrying a firearm," the cop immediately shouted "don't move, don't move!" as the guy was still reaching back, and before anything else happened the cop panicked and started shooting. The girlfriend's narration and the cop's shouting right after he shot seem to me to suggest that the cop gave two different orders (show me your ID and don't move/don't reach) in quick succession. That's a guess, of course, but it's the version of events that makes the most sense to me (taking into consideration that the guy was legally armed, that his girlfriend says he told the cop he was legally carrying, etc).
As an FYI not all jurisdictions mandate making an officer aware that you're carrying (I don't think you legally have to in this guy's state) and having thought about the scenario quite a bit I think unless I was asked to step out of the car or was given an instruction that would involve me reaching toward the place a weapon was concealed I almost certainly won't volunteer that info to a cop if stopped, myself.
Where's Anthony Jeselnik on this? It's time.
7 and a half years of racist assholes like Holder/Obama fanning the flames and elevating turds like Sharpton are starting to overflow the the container. It will be a LONG time until the country can recover, if ever. Stay away from black majority areas. The smart black people stay away from them you should too. Derbyshire= prophet.
(the only example of one shooting for "no reason" was the guy who shot that guy running away from him down in South Carolina).
There were two incidents here of police shooting black guys for no reason, one in Columbia and one in Charleston.
In both cases, the cops were punished REALLY quickly.
We don't have strong union protections here.
RE: I Callahan:
You know, you can believe the first part without taking that long, long leap to the second part. I mean, like, Grand Canyon leap. There are plenty of disaffected, angry, black military veterans who could have gotten caught up in the BLM movement without being directed to by the government...
It's a long leap, but America today is deeply sick. To be honest, I do not trust my countrymen. By false flag, though, I don't mean Oliver Stone type government conspiracies -- I just mean extremists who want to trigger a race war and would find a huge, nasty protest a good opportunity.
"What else don't you understand about the case?"
Thank you for the information.
EMD -
In the Baton Rouge case, the video in unclear, but I'm going to bet the cops are saying the man had his hand on the gun in his pocket. One cops is clearly yelling "GUN GUN' so they knew he was armed. The other cop is clearly telling the suspect to stop doing something and threatening to shoot. Neither video shows where the suspect's hands are, and those 2 cops didn't shoot the suspect because he was black...obviously. They shot him because he was armed and was resisting arrest. The witness has no idea where the suspect's hands are either. And of course, the cop took the gun out. The first thing you do is control the firearm as soon as the situation settles down. The cop wasn't trying to hide evidence, or change evidence. He was making sure the suspect didn't reach into his pocket and go for the gun again. That's police technique 101. To suggest the cop took the gun out for any other reason is just stupid.
EMD -
You're welcome. I think if people understand the fact set, they will also understand the frustration cops feel about some of this.
The police prosecutions in Baltimore are about appeasing the mob, and also because both DA Mosby and her hsband are elected officials.
My own guess is that the officer asked him for ID, he said something like "sure, and just so you know, I am legally carrying a firearm," the cop immediately shouted "don't move, don't move!" as the guy was still reaching back, and before anything else happened the cop panicked and started shooting. The girlfriend's narration and the cop's shouting right after he shot seem to me to suggest that the cop gave two different orders (show me your ID and don't move/don't reach) in quick succession. That's a guess, of course, but it's the version of events that makes the most sense to me (taking into consideration that the guy was legally armed, that his girlfriend says he told the cop he was legally carrying, etc).
In a routine traffic stop, you are often asked to produce your license. Mine is in my wallet in my front pocket, so naturally my hand would have to move to retrieve it. That would be my instinct. Heck, I've been pulled over for speeding and my inclination is to automatically reach for it because they're going to ask for it anyway. But now, that very motion (even before the officer is at my window) could be perceived as a threat.
I find it strange that police protocol in such instances can seem so contradictory. What's the solution?
If the MSM would expose and hype the many shootings of WHITE people by police, there may not be the perceived disparity. The media are as responsible as anyone for fomenting racial violence in this country.
So the perp hates cops and white people.
Boy, just the like trying to understand the terrorist mindset, the government will struggle mightily for the motive here.
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
Regardless of the identities of the shooters, Blacks lose. Big time. There's no doubt that police will continue to withdraw from enforcement in Black urban areas.
I think the White liberal expoitation of Black dependency and outrage is slowly grinding to the end of it's positive returns. Black suffering will grow worse, but the Democrats are getting everything out of it they're ever going to get. Time to shop for a new Underclass.
"In a routine traffic stop, you are often asked to produce your license. Mine is in my wallet in my front pocket, so naturally my hand would have to move to retrieve it. That would be my instinct. Heck, I've been pulled over for speeding and my inclination is to automatically reach for it because they're going to ask for it anyway. But now, that very motion (even before the officer is at my window) could be perceived as a threat.
I find it strange that police protocol in such instances can seem so contradictory. What's the solution? "
When I'm stopped, I roll my window down and wait for the cop to approach my car and then I follow his instructions so that the cop knows I'm not a threat to his safety.
Time to shop for a new Underclass.
They've been doing that since November 6th 1986. The more forward-thinking people on that side of the isle saw it coming, even then.
Unknown
LOL. Because blacks reaching for their wallets are routinely, almost always, killed. unknownalistic!! unknownalicious thinking.
profoundly unknowntastic
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
Bayes' Theorem applies to everybody. If you're a member of a class with a higher rate of dangerous behavior, you'll meet a more hair-triggered police officer.
The fix isn't political correctness, which will backfire big time, but reducing dangerous behavior in blacks -- teach admiration of the right things instead of the wrong things -- or of course increase dangerous behavior in whites. Then they'd be equal again.
Bayes' Theorem starts off color blind, absolutely color blind. It learns by experience.
So change the experience, don't fault the math. The math is common sense.
"Stay away from black majority areas. The smart black people stay away from them you should too. Derbyshire= prophet."
Yup. Naturally, the pussified National Review had to fire him.
I got a renewal notice from NR yesterday. Trash.
This will get much worse and may not get better for years.
If somebody shoots Trump there will be race riots. Bad ones.
A police officer isn't hair-triggered by a black he knows. The race abounds with nice guys.
He's hair triggered by what he doesn't know, and has to go with the odds with.
I have my CCP and in Ohio we are required to tell the officer as soon as he gets to the car. We were told to inform the officer and the keep your hands on the steering wheel until he tells you to move them. That is drilled into you during your 12 hour class required before you can carry.
A mass abortion motivated by [class] diversity policies.
Unknown,
Tell that to Dylan Noble.
I see that Barack Obama is trying desperately to back away from what he could have stopped with a sentence or two, but he didn't.
Tell me, Althouse, when you voted for this deeply flawed man in 2008, did you realize you were sowing the wind? Now you and the rest of us will reap the whirlwind.
@EMD, it would be nice if police training included the following.
"It is not the guy who informs you that he is legally carrying a firearm that you have to worry about. It is the guy who does not inform you that he is illegally carrying a firearm that you have to worry about."
You can't have a whirlwind without rising hot air.
The cop killer was a military vet. Once again, you have to go to British newspapers to learn about American news.
Matthew Sablan said...
At the moment, the system is working-ish. We may want to get body cameras and maybe, since police shootings are relatively rare, find ways to toughen the review process, but, at the moment, the system is working well enough that it is fixable. I don't think we need to completely unmake it and start over -- even though, yes, there are some problems.
This is a fair assessment that can be defended by reasonable people. This being said, I don't want to live in a country where someone can carry a semi-automatic weapon slung over their shoulder to a peaceful rally or where everyone lives in fear of cops on hair-triggers. That sounds more like Kabul or Mogadishu rather than any city I want to live in. We are turning the country into a shit-hole with this obsession with guns.
The Conservative Treehouse website seems to be getting at the background of the shooting of Philando Castile in Minnesota. This was the incident where the girlfriend made a video as he was dying in the car.
The police officer stopped the car because Castile matched the description of a Black who was filmed robbing a store three days earlier.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/the-curious-case-of-philando-castile-falcon-heights-mn-police-shooting/
Chicago is a hell hole and it will get worse. A lot worse. I was there visiting family two weeks ago and we did not go downtown. The Dan Ryan expressway and the north Michigan avenue areas are magnets for black thugs.
Not quite. The black neighborhoods are hell holes (and will get worse, no doubt) but not the rest of it. The white neighborhoods, especially most of Near North Side and the Northwest Side, are placid and pleasant. The Mexican and Latino neighborhoods are bad but not as bad as the black neighborhoods; and Humboldt Park, a longtime Puerto Rican neighborhood, is undergoing white gentrification. The white neighborhoods of the South Side (e.g. Mt. Greenwood, Hegwisch, and most of Beverly) are also good; also good are the white neighborhoods of the southwest side (e.g. Garfield Heights/Midway Airport. Canaryville remains Canaryville, Irish "hillbillies," cops and firefighters, very tribal, and they're sort of hostile to everyone or at best guarded and wary. I hang out now and then in a Canaryville pub on Wallace for the good craic, it's called "Kelly's," and the locals accept me because I look Irish which because I am Irish and they think I'm a cop because I look like a cop and I don't disabuse them of the notion.
I drive into the South Side three days per week for my job from a west-southwest side suburb. I don't take I-55 (the Stevenson) because it's too crowded; instead, I drive right through South Side Mexican and Black neighborhoods. It's okay. I wouldn't do that on a Friday or Saturday night, however.
The quality of life and one's personal safety in Chicago all depends on which neighborhood/area you're in and to a lesser extent the time of day.
When I'm stopped, I roll my window down and wait for the cop to approach my car and then I follow his instructions so that the cop knows I'm not a threat to his safety.
Me too. With both hands on the steering wheel. If he asks for my registration I tell him it's in my glove box BEFORE I lean right and open the box.
Oh yeah, I also refer to him as "Officer". I don't get pissy and I don't claim the reason he pulled me over is [fill in the "I ain't done nothing" statement.]
Who knows, maybe this shooter did want to start a race war, just like Dylann Roof.
http://www.newsweek.com/dylann-roof-confesses-church-shooting-says-he-wanted-start-race-war-344797
Dylann Roof, the 21-year-old suspect in the Charleston church shooting that left nine people dead, reportedly confessed to the crime, according to two law enforcement officials who spoke to CNN.
During his confession, one of the officials said Roof told authorities he wanted to start a “race war.” Before the shooting, Roof sat in the church for an hour with those attending Bible study. He told authorities he "almost didn't go through with it because everyone was so nice to him."
“He was big into segregation and other stuff. He said he wanted to start a civil war. He said he was going to do something like that and then kill himself,” Dalton Tyler, Roof’s roommate, told ABC News. Tyler believes Roof had been planning an attack for six months.
The Minnesota shooting was a genuine case of "hands up, don't shoot." What a horrible week.
This is a fair assessment that can be defended by reasonable people. This being said, I don't want to live in a country where someone can carry a semi-automatic weapon slung over their shoulder to a peaceful rally or where everyone lives in fear of cops on hair-triggers.
If they lived in fear of cops with hair-triggers, why did several people at the protest turn over their guns to the police? Seems like a bad idea if you're afraid they'll shoot you for having a gun at all.
And I don't like living in a country where porn is so readily available. But, guess what? The country is not set up to be "Shit Mike likes". I have to tolerate shit people do that I loathe and I expect the same consideration.
I just rarely get the same consideration.
I think smoking is vile...but I will defend smokers because freedom trumps my personal comfort. I will defend prostitution for the same reason. Ditto marijuana.
How many things with the Left leave alone that they hate? Note, they are already trying to tax sodas out of existence in Philly.
Except Roof could not find any confederates, so to speak.
One of our employees husband is a Dallas cop who worked the protest last night. He's OK, but he lost some friends. There are now some widows and fatherless children thanks to this scumbag.
Inga the Unknown wrote: Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
More likely an example of something else. And this something else.
White privilege is a pernicious myth intended to foster an attitude of self-righteous arrogance among the criminal class in America, which is disproportionately black.
Blogger Unknown said...
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
The news media have done you a great disservice. This is actually the opposite of true. According to scientific studies, people are slower to use lethal force against black subjects.
https://news.wsu.edu/2014/09/02/deadly-force-lab-finds-racial-disparities-in-shootings/
@ Unknown -
"Not so much if you are black"
In 2013, the last year I can find the figures, about 4,300 African Americans were arrested for murder, about 98,000 arrested for Aggravated Assault, about 45,000 for Robbery, and about 45,000 arrested for Weapons Possession or Use. The FBI UCR's do not indicate how many of those were armed with firearms as opposed to, say, knives or rocks. Do you know how many black men were shot by cops that year? Or what that would be as a percentage of those arrested for offenses of violence? (not counting Rape, burglary, auto theft, minor assaults, etc). This of course, doesn't count all the police-citizen contacts from traffic stops, investigative stops, domestic violence calls which did not result in an arrest, and the like, which run into the millions and millions.
I can see why you hide your identity. Such vapid comments warrant non-credit for same.
Blogger tim in vermont said...
The Minnesota shooting was a genuine case of "hands up, don't shoot." What a horrible week.
7/8/16, 11:16 AM
------------------------------------
The laws of probability at work. Eventually BLM would get one right.
The more that we looked at the Freddie Grey death, the more it looked like good policing. Mosby had asked for additional policing in that area because its residents are constituents of her city council member husband. Which Baltimore PD did. They showed up in force and were apparently just showing the flag. Grey saw the cops, and they saw him. He ran, and the bicycle officers ran him down. Perfectly justified stop under MD law as based onreasonable suspicion. At that point, it turned into a Terry Stop, where the officers are allowed to frisk people before they talk to them for their own safety. They found an illegal knife on Grey - but didn't need to frisk him to find it since it was in plain sight. So, he was put in the van, and was ultimately transported to jail, where he was found unresponsive.
The problems began when the black community, and, in particular, Mosby's husband's constituents, started to riot, yelling BLM as they did so. So, using the power she had as the elected head prosecutor (essentially, the DA), she had all six officers involved in the arrest and transport of Grey arrested for a number of trumped up charges. For example, one of the charges was false arrest, based on the knife not being illegal under MD law - except that Grey was arrested for violating a Baltimore knife law, which his knife appears to have done. Mosby and her people knew this, or should have, if they had read the arrest report, but they persist to this day claiming the knife was legal. By now, two of the officers have been acquitted in bench trials before a black judge, the latest having been the driver who allegedly gave Grey the rough ride. Except that there was no evidence presented at trial that that was what happened. It is hard to believe that any of the other prosecutions will be any more successful, since they, at worst, allege some sort of facilitation and collaboration with the driver, who was acquitted. Bunch of other irregularities, such as charging based on the testimony of a senior LEO who had no personal knowledge of the events (instead accepted the story given him by the prosecutor's office), instead of taking it to a grand jury. Ethics complaints have apparently been filed against at least Mosby, and I think that it is going to be hard to prevent her from being sanctioned, and, hopefully disbarred - she very much appears to have used her prosecutors to have the six officers arrested and tried without probable cause in order to benefit the political career of her husband.
ARM
The "obsession" with guns is really not something that gun owners have. It seems to be more centered on those who dislike them and who yammer on and on about America's "obsession with guns."
AReasonableMan said...
...I don't want to live in a country where someone can carry a semi-automatic weapon slung over their shoulder to a peaceful rally...
I think a lot of us agree with you here. ( We don't want you to live in a country where someone can carry a semi-automatic weapon slung over their shoulder to a peaceful rally. ) This is and will remain such a country. Your move.
EMD said... [hush][hide comment]
"I have a feeling that Castile moved when he shouldn't have - not to blame the victim - and that the cops did not control the situation as well as they should have."
Yes, it's horribly tragic. Probably reaching for wallet or ID. He had little reason to go for his gun in that situation.
Or, in the cops mind, guy is a a felon reaching for gun to murder cop and escape.
@ tim in vermont -
genuine case of "hands up, don't shoot."
First, you don't know that at all. If anything, it appears to be a case of a scared cop, poorly trained and unsuited for the job, who encountered a blasé man who ignored the commands of the cop not to move, and decided to get his license regardless of what the cops was saying. I am guessing he was thinking "What's the cop going to do? Shoot me?", not realizing the cop was actually capable of doing exactly that.
But we don't really know that yet. That's an educated guess. The other cops probably arrived and did a head slap, not surprised at all, because the cop in question was the idiot they all knew was a screw-up. But from his name, he's probably an affirmative action hire and untouchable. You can't lower standards to be inclusive, and then act surprised when your lowest common denominator crashes and burns.
Back in the late '60's, the big push in policing was to require college for all cops. But that quickly died when people realized you weren't going to get minorities and college educated cops at the same time. Agencies also had to lower physical standards to get female cops, and now people get surprised when cops shoot suspects when they started losing fist fights.
By false flag, though, I don't mean Oliver Stone type government conspiracies -- I just mean extremists who want to trigger a race war and would find a huge, nasty protest a good opportunity.
Balfegor,
Mea culpa, then. The above scenario is one I could definitely envision.
Unknown said...
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
7/8/16, 10:43 AM"
You have any actual facts to back that up? Or is it just another progressive BS fact free rant?
@I Callahan: "First of all, situations like these are the extremely rare exception, not the rule, and pointing this out the way you did makes it look like it's the norm."
Can you point us to some examples where the police unions have taken efforts to get bad cops off the streets instead of protecting them? Not trying to be a smart ass. Genuinely curious.
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
If you have some kind of evidence to prove this, then let's see it. Personally, I think your problem is that you believe the narrative that exists, and accept it because it fits your own narrative. Because in fairness, there is no such evidence, because the above is bullshit on stilts.
Black males are what, 6% of the population, yet cause close to 50% of all crime? Yet, more white people are killed by cops than black people, but the media don't even report that. Cops are LESS apt to shoot a black perp for these very reasons. But hey, don't let reality intrude on your little narrative.
"The "obsession" with guns is really not something that gun owners have. It seems to be more centered on those who dislike them and who yammer on and on about America's "obsession with guns.""
Very true. And, not surprisingly, the rantings of the obsessed leave them with less credibility than more objective folks might be able claim.
Let me add that no one knows precisely how or why Grey's neck was broken. But a clear preponderance of the evidence at this point points to him trying to injure himself. It is fairly certain that his injuries occurred during the last leg of his trip to jail, when there was another prisoner on the other compartment in the van. That prisoner has testified that the ride was not that rough, and that he heard noises that could have been Grey trying to injure himself. Add to that that Grey has apparently self inflicted injuries in the past (I believe for insurance fraud, but can't remember precisely). In any case, at this point, there is clearly no probable cause to justify keeping the remains four officers arrested and awaiting trial, and probably wasn't from the first. Note that Grey probably had to stand up in order to receive the injuries that killed him, which is part of why it is probably more likely that his own actions helped precipitate his death.
"As reported at Reason and elsewhere, Castile was shot by a police officer near St. Paul, Minnesota, after he reached for his wallet in order to produce his concealed carry permit. Cops then detained his girlfriend and her young daughter—who were in the car at the time—as Castile bled to death. Other officers comforted the cop who shot Castile, but no one bothered to assist the dying man, or even check his pulse."
http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/07/black-lives-matter-and-so-do-their-gun-r
Unknown said...
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
7/8/16, 10:43 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble but math isn't racist (despite what you may have been taught in your last "studies" class).
The statistics show a cop is more likely to be shot by a black person. The statistics show a black person is more likely to be shot by a black person. Want to stop so many black people getting shot by cops? Tell black people to stop shooting people so much. Change the statistics.
Black people make up (what was it?) 12% of the population in this country but commit almost 50% of all crimes to include gun crimes. That is not racist, that is math. Everybody has more to fear from a random black male, 18 to 26 years old than from any other group. Fix that group, change the statistics and black lives will be saved.
Castile was shot by a police officer near St. Paul, Minnesota, after he reached for his wallet in order to produce his concealed carry permit. Cops then detained his girlfriend and her young daughter—who were in the car at the time—as Castile bled to death. Other officers comforted the cop who shot Castile, but no one bothered to assist the dying man, or even check his pulse."
Heh. Reason Magazine. No anti-cop tilt there...
EMD said...I find it strange that police protocol in such instances can seem so contradictory. What's the solution?
Yeah, it's a real problem that you have to think about if you carry concealed or keep a weapon in your car. My own thought is: I never want to surprise a cop--if I'm slowly reaching for my wallet and I expose a pistol on my hip that could surprise an officer and they might react badly. If I had to reach for something that was near a weapon I'd make sure my hands were visible and I'd try to calmly explain that I can't comply because there is a legal weapon near where I'd need to reach, and ask the officer how I should proceed. One thing I read is that you should never say the word "gun" when talking with an officer--you should always say "firearm" since yelling "gun" is how cops warn each other someone is about to start shooting at them. The girlfriend uses the word "firearm" in the video she livestreamed, I think.
dreams said...When I'm stopped, I roll my window down and wait for the cop to approach my car and then I follow his instructions so that the cop knows I'm not a threat to his safety.
Honestly even the "roll down the window" part takes some thought, though--I drive a Jeep with manual windows (an actual crank, ya'll). If I was pissed at being pulled over and a cop was walking up to my door and I reach down and vigorously start cranking on the window to roll it down, a cop might see me quickly bend over and appear to move briskly and think "he's going for a weapon" and react badly. That sounds a little far fetched, but I've thought about it!
Slow, deliberate actions are the way to go, and definitely comply with any orders they give. Even with that it's a problem if they give contradictory or confusing orders (you see that sometimes when there are 2 cops - one shouting "put your hands up" and one shouting "get on your knees" [which might make you put your hands down in front of you as you bend over, etc] or something). Like I said my guess is that something like that happened in this case--contradictory orders and a too-quick/panicked reaction.
clearly we need reparations. only way forward now
I was shocked by the video and report of the shooting of Mr. Castile. Every one of us can imagine being in the crosshairs of a nervous cop on what to us is a silly or routine stop but to the cop can mean a life-ending ambush. One small step to reduce the likelihood of such terrible outcomes is to change the driver licensing process. Not only must you show proficiency in handling the vehicle safely. You need to learn the protocol for an encounter with the police. Stay in the car. Keep your hands in plain sight. No sudden moves. Speak calmly and don't argue. Wait to be told to produce papers. If you don't like the ticket or the arrest, get your lawyer or the press or the mayor to help fight it. At least you'll be there to enjoy the vindication instead of rotting in a box underground.
We continue to think of our cars as forms of self-expression, replete with ego-manifestation. When we drive we assert our authority. A cop stop punctures that fantasy and we take it personally. Too many times we want to dispute it with somebody who is tired, nervous and armed; and completely ignorant of our wonderfulness and innocence. That person has a protocol for threat identification and once we get marked as a threat, things can go very bad in an instant.
It's on us not to start that process.
"The officer claims that Castile moved his hands having been instructed not to, while Castile’s girlfriend claims that Castile was following the officer’s instructions and was then killed for doing so. Because the incident itself was not captured, we are unlikely to get a definitive answer as to which claim is correct.
If Reynolds’s account were to be confirmed, it should worry all 13 million concealed carriers in the United States (well, it should worry everybody, but it should especially worry concealed carriers). Under Minnesota law, concealed carriers are not required to tell police officers that they are carrying until they are explicitly asked. Moreover, in no state is the mere act of carrying a firearm sufficient justification for a police officer to open fire (there is a crucial difference between “carrying” and “brandishing” that is often ignored in the press).
If, as Reynolds claims, Castile was killed while doing no more than reaching for his ID, then it seems clear that the officer was in the wrong. How many other cops, one wonders, remain unaware of how they should engage with citizens who are licensed to carry? My suspicion here is that there are a good number of conservatives and libertarians who are outraged by this story (we need more details, but it sure looks bad)."
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/437559/few-thoughts-killing-philando-castile
Can you point us to some examples where the police unions have taken efforts to get bad cops off the streets instead of protecting them? Not trying to be a smart ass. Genuinely curious.
No, I really can't. I don't think unions believe it's their job to police it's own, especially the type of union that is constantly dealing with a "us vs. them" mentality when dealing with their employers. Local governments are adversarial in relationship, so the unions probably won't give an inch. Being around as many cops as I have, it's usually the case that cops are suspicious of the first news reports that come out after an incident like in Minnesota and Louisiana. And in light of recent events, can anyone blame them?
That said - I think police unions should do this. It'd help some in the PR department. But how much remains the question, when we have a media that's bent so high on ratings that they don't care whose lives they ruin.
If somebody shoots Trump there will be race riots. Bad ones.
I have to believe there are forces at work planning to do just that.
A year ago, I would have never even entertained the thought.
Dallas Police Chief: "We don't feel much support most days ... Please, we need your support to be able to protect you from men like these."
Do you think this event will be enough for politicians to stop inflaming racial tensions for their own, selfish interests? Yeah, me neither.
The black power organization, of which the shooter was a member, has claimed responsibility.
There's shockingly more than meets the eye with castle, not the times or the journal would point out.
WHAT DO WE WANT!?!
----
C'mon leftists you know the answer. Don't get shy now. Be out and proud!
WHAT DO WE WANT!?!
I'm confused. How many shooters were there in Dallas? Two, or just the one?
Obama has stirred racial division his entire presidency. I don't believe he cares that 5 police officers are dead now. I don't believe it of this man.
I don't know if we will ever dig out of the damage he has done to America.
Just depressing. Ugh.
Roughcoat said...
I'm confused. How many shooters were there in Dallas? Two, or just the one?
My understanding is one dead, three more in custody, although I don't know that all were 'shooters'. But definitely multiple shooters, shooting from different locations.
After his last election Obama morphed his super pac into Organizing for Action / OFA. OFA has been training and financing an army of community organizers to foment racial hatred throughout the country. This Obama army of SJW's are behind the protests on college campuses across the country and they are the driving force behind BLM.
The results: December of 2014 two NYPD officers were killed by BLM supporter. Today five Dallas police officers killed by BLM supporter. Many others wounded. Twitter is filled with celebrations of the police deaths and calls for more by BLM supporters. BLM supporters have marched through the streets chanting for the death of police officers and rioting.
NPR spent all this week attacking Trump as a racist because some white supremacist endorsed him. Well Clinton/Obama supporters are murdering police. When will BLM be labeled the terrorist organization they are? How many police have to die before Democrats denounce their BLM supporters.
The Black Panther movement was a reaction to alleged police brutality in California in the sixties. AR-15 started to be sold around the same time. Gun control, supported by Gov. Reagan and the NRA, was a reaction to the Black Panther movement.
We need to refresh our analysis of the AR-15 in the civilian world.
@Owen at 11:56: Exactly.
The judgment that went straight to "MURDER!!" is irresponsible. Dallas proves what they are dealing with day to day since the war on cops was begun by this administration.
I read yesterday that there exists common sense protocol after informing an officer that you are armed. One of them is not reaching into your pocket unless instructed! Keeping your hands visible at all times. Kind of sensible! NOT blaming the victim, just giving an example of the facts that need to be considered before more people get killed needlessly.
This incident refreshes the debate about reconciling moral and natural imperatives. Denigrating individual dignity (e.g. class diversity) and debasing human life (e.g. abortion rites, Planned Parenthood) has promoted conflict and prejudice.
Nice try, the Dodd bill preceded the panthers, the nra was founded by union officers, its true the bourbon did ban blacks from owning guns, but that was 75 years earlier
Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. Chances are that if you're carrying a gun and you're white, you'll survive a stop by police. Not so much if you are black. That is an example of white privilege. Does the 2nd Amendment also apply to black Americans?
Cops kill more White people than Black people every year. They kill Black people at a higher rate than White people, but Black people also commit violent crimes at a higher rate than White people.
"We are turning the country into a shit-hole with this obsession with guns."
No, we are doing so with Democrats running cities and tamping up black paranoia.
"I drive into the South Side three days per week for my job from a west-southwest side suburb."
Roughcoat, my sister lives in Beverly. She hears gunshots and there are armed stickups in her neighborhood several times a month.
That's not exactly Orange County CA where I live. I grew up in South Shore in the 40s and early 50s. It was idyllic. Now, I hesitate to drive through there in daytime.
"Chances are that if you're white you will survive reaching in your pocket for your ID. "
Very few whites are foolish enough to reach around while a cop is talking to you.
Cops worry about blacks because most crime is committed by blacks and because of things like last night.
If blacks worried about crime in their own neighborhoods as much as they worry about cops shooting young black thugs, they might get the crime wave under control. Instead, they defend the thugs and hate the police.
I feel very sorry for blacks who live in these areas and who have to live with the thugs but they lose me when they keep defending these angry violent young men.
@ Hoodlum doodlum 1015 You are correct, in MN you are not required to tell the officer you are carrying. However your training is to tell him and wait for him to tell you how to proceed. Very commonsensical.
About 15% of all marriages since 2010 have been between people of different races. I think this makes "race war" impossible. We all have relatives of other races. But there can be shooters. This shooter "hated whites" and wanted to shoot white police. But what he did was shoot at least two Hispanics and one black mother, not a member of the police. This shooter might have shot any commenter on this blog or else one of their relatives. So regardless of the rhetoric we are all this together. There's only one way forward - all lives matter. I learned that in the Sixties from Martin Luther King and you will never get me to change
@ Unknown -
"clearly we need reparations. only way forward now"
Now I think you are just trolling us, to get a reaction, and laughing about it.
"Other officers comforted the cop who shot Castile, but no one bothered to assist the dying man, or even check his pulse."
That is just BS. Period. Untrue. They may not have administered first aid, but if not, it's because he was already DOA. And Reason publishing such tripe is exactly one of the problems.
That sounds more like Kabul or Mogadishu rather than any city I want to live in.
Probably the single dumbest thing you've ever said on this blog.
"wait for him to tell you how to proceed. "
Great, until he tells you to do two different things.
And today another officer is shot while issuing a traffic ticket.
I've no idea the race of the shooter. Anyone want to hazard a guess?
Heres a statistic I'd like to see.
How many cops (of any race) are shot or killed by white people?
How many by black?
Compare those stats to the percentage of whites and blacks shot by cops.
Democrat representative John Lewis: what an asshole.
JCC,
There are several different Unknowns commenting on this thread.
"Great, until he tells you to do two different things."
-- "We need to know how many toggle flips are needed not counting the gratuitous toggle flip you may have asked for in a moment of panic."
Heh. Reason Magazine. No anti-cop tilt there...
Heh. The Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights. No anti-cop tilt there either.
"There are several different Unknowns commenting on this thread."
How does one get the name "Unknown"?
It is 2016. We still have troops fighting in Afghanistan, we still have troops fighting in Iraq, Obama and Hillary worked hand-in-hand to make Libya a failed state, and now Obama is sending more US troops to Poland to deter the Russians from bullying or NATO allies. Guantanamo is still open. We have had eight years of record-breaking low growth. The US workforce participation is at its lowest level since the Carter years. A few weeks ago we had the worst mass shooting in US history, and last night the mass shooting of Dallas police officers by a Black Power terrorist.
Way to go, Democrats.
"wait for him to tell you how to proceed. "
Great, until he tells you to do two different things.
7/8/16, 1:21 PM
You wait and ask what to do. You are assuming the girlfriend was truthful, always a risk.
Maybe Obama realized that the world is a far more complicated place than he did when on the campaign trail. How will Trump adjust to the realities of the Presidency?
So the Democrats' most reliable constituency exports visibly an example of its disproportionate violence after years of encouragement by our President and his racialist former AG. Meanwhile, their other political overseers and the bedwetting protesters and mediaswine cluck, "Tragic, but understandable."
Police fear young black men many of whom are notoriously violence prone. Fear is not racism, even when it leads to unjustified shootings. As long as Democrat politicians, like Governor Jackass in Minnesota and the President, pander to the bloc by refusing to acknowledge and address black violence and the resultant police fear, the deaths will continue.
Hopey-changey!
>>Can you point us to some examples where the police unions have taken efforts to >>get bad cops off the streets instead of protecting them?
Here's one example of unions fighting to put bad cops back on the street....Bad shooting, cop fired, union forces reinstatement.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-04-14/story/jso-officer-who-shot-and-killed-unarmed-driver-will-be-re-instated
Original Mike said...
How does one get the name "Unknown"?
I think Blogger lets you post as "Unknown" as default with OpenID. Basically it's the same thing as "anonymous".
Blogger Unknown said...
Maybe Obama realized that the world is a far more complicated place than he did when on the campaign trail. How will Trump adjust to the realities of the Presidency?
Trump lacks relevant political experience, but Trump is not an ideologue.
Obama lacked relevant political experience when he was elected president, and he was, and remains, an ideologue.
"I think Blogger lets you post as "Unknown" as default with OpenID. Basically it's the same thing as "anonymous"."
So anybody concerned about confusion has a remedy.
Roughcoat, my sister lives in Beverly. She hears gunshots and there are armed stickups in her neighborhood several times a month.
Does she live east or west of the tracks?
Beverly can be problematic because it borders on "black" (east) Beverly. I don't have any problems with Beverly west of the tracks. On occasion I go to mass at Christ the King and also on occasion (ever less frequent since I quit the drink and, oh yes, grew up) I do the Western Ave pub crawl (Cork & Kerry, Keegan's, etc. etc. etc.) with friends (I drink Diet Coke). Maybe she should move to Mt. Greenwood, although I understand that relocating to that Shanty Irish 'hood is something a true-blue Beverly dweller would never even contemplate. :-)
You're right, South Shore back in the day was great. I dated a girl from that neighborhood. She was -- you guessed it -- Polish. Just like everyone else in the area. She went to South Shore HS and had flaxen hair and a smokin' hot body and was well worth the long drive down from the north. You probably know that South Shore has the unfortunate reputation of having been the quickest "turning" neighborhood in Chicago due to unscrupulous and now illegal blockbusting tactics. Now I would drive through that neighborhood if you paid me.
"This is the predictable byproduct of the black lives matter movement. I'm NOT saying this is what the organizers wanted. It's just an obvious outcome of year-long protests that villainize the police as unrepentant racists who shoot innocent blacks whenever they can."
To the extent police are being villainized, it is a predictable by-product of a series of videos showing black men being murdered by police officers, with virtually no punishment or even censure of the police officers involved by their superiors in their respective police departments or city governments, and no public outcry by the masses of police officers nationwide over the egregious behavior of their fellow officers. Aren't Muslims being painted as, if not terrorists themselves, terrorist sympathizers to the degree they aren't publicly condemning Islamic terrorism? If we can assume that most police officers in the nation would not be so quick to be so brutal, so swiftly and with so little cause, why do we not hear a chorus of criticism by these more professional and humane officers against the actions of their colleagues that besmirch them all?
(As many blacks have said, it is not that police-on-black brutality is a new phenomenon, it is just that the video documentation of such behavior is a recent phenomenon. What many blacks have known and experienced for years is now becoming undeniably evident to everyone.)
Michael -
There are armed stickups at least twice a month in the neighborhood on the South Side where I work and for two of my shifts I get off at 10 pm. When I walk out the door it is as if my head is on swivel and my hand is in my pocket and, yes, I am armed.
By contrast, in the leafy no-crime, South-Side Catholic Irish diaspora suburban neighborhood where I live I can and often do leave my front door unlocked when I'm gone from the house. Twenty miles can make a big difference. As does the racial composition of the neighborhood/town.
"Bayes' Theorem. The only information the cop has is skin color. He goes to the probability of dangerous behavior given the skin color, which is much higher than for white skin color. That means he has to be very very hair trigger for his own safety."
In other words, bigotry.
In other words, bigotry.
You need food to survive. You're offered a blue pill or a green pill. You know 18% of the blue pills are poisoned and 1% of the green pills are poisoned.
What color do you take?
After all, most of the pills of any color are fine. Let's not be bigoted.
Since Obama praises BLM, he is directly implicated in this mass murder. A criminal president who should be immediately impeached and imprisoned.
The Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights. No anti-cop tilt there either.
Do you want to point me to the part of the bill of rights that says a cop can't defend himself against someone who's about to point a gun at him? I must have missed that part.
As for Reason Mag - they've gone full retard on this subject. For every single cop involved shooting, the wags over there have them guilty no matter what, and they still have never retracted a single story when they've been proven wrong. So I stand by that statement.
Well Mission Accomplished, O-dummer. You finally managed to instigate the race war you first tried with the Henry Gates incident in spring 2009.
Mission Fucking Accomplished, you piece of shit.
"Second - no one is trained to deal with split second decisions coming from hostile, fluid situations like what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana."
What was hostile or fluid or split-second about either of these situations? The man in Louisiana was simply outside a convenience market selling cds, as he had been doing regularly for five years. The police created the situation by jumping the man. His gun was in his pocket and he never went for it or resisted. The police were on top of him with their full body weight and the one officer simply took his firearm out of its holster and put it to the man's chest and fired twice. It is very visibly deliberate and not done in a moment of panic or "split-second decision" making.
The gentleman in Minnesota volunteered the information he had a firearm and the police officer immediately pulled his firearm and within seconds fired four bullets into the man.
"Not only that, we only have the story from one side in each case. We know how that went with Ferguson and Trayvon. For that reason alone, I believe cops SHOULD have the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty. Which ironically, is the way the justice system is supposed to be set up in the first place."
Fair enough, but why aren't the victims of baseless police violence given that benefit of the doubt, either by the police before they discharge their firearms or by the media and public after the victim has been killed?
If we can assume that most police officers in the nation would not be so quick to be so brutal, so swiftly and with so little cause, why do we not hear a chorus of criticism by these more professional and humane officers against the actions of their colleagues that besmirch them all?
I don't know how many cops you know, but I know quite a few and they all, to a man, criticize illegal shootings constantly. But then again, they're fighting an uphill battle against the chorus of criticism of the Ferguson type, were riots and violence were predicated on a the complete fabrication that is "Hands up! Don't shoot!"
t is a predictable by-product of a series of videos showing black men being murdered by police officers, with virtually no punishment or even censure of the police officers involved by their superiors in their respective police departments or city governments, and no public outcry by the masses of police officers nationwide over the egregious behavior of their fellow officers
Partially true, mostly wrong. Your first clause is correct.
As for the rest - "virtually no punishment or even censure": You know this for a fact?
"no public outcry by the masses of police officers": you can't believe this unless you know that all of these police shootings are the fault of the officer. In light of recent events, I'm going to give the cop the benefit of the doubt before anyone else, until they're proven guilty. That's how cops see it as well, and since they're always considered adversaries (by hoods, government leaders, as well as normal citizens who interact with them), you can't be surprised by their "us vs. them" approach to everything that happens to them. A lot of people don't like authority, so it goes with the territory.
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