WaPo observes.
The unexpected consequence of the penalties, then, is to prevent women from associating under their gender as well...
Why would that be an "unexpected consequence"? How dumb could Harvard possibly be? Obviously, it was expected. The usual adjective is "unintended."
... prompting all-female groups to ask the administration to consider them in a different vein from their all-male counterparts.
So, once Harvard has made the big change and set up incentives to pressure private institutions to abandon their single-sex tradition, it's now supposed to adopt sex discrimination itself and remove the pressure on the all-female institutions?
“Basking in the praise of the national press for its efforts to make all-male final clubs go co-ed, Harvard has left out an important piece of the story: female final clubs,” three female students wrote in an op-ed for the Harvard Crimson. They argued that while women would remain disenfranchised within the hierarchies of historically male clubs, the act of making historically female clubs go co-ed would effectively cause them to “die out,” as they lack the resources to compete.
The students further accused Harvard of pushing for “hasty, symbolic victories” as a “form of damage control” following negative media attention on final clubs. “The support systems, safe spaces, and alumnae networks the women’s clubs have been striving to build will disappear,” they wrote. “That strikes us as a tremendous waste, and an ironic one, given Harvard’s stated goals.”...
Posts
74 comments:
If membership is secret, how will Harvard know who to punish?
Harvard has gone full SJW in its attack on freedom of association. There is no rhyme nor reason for Harvard to get involved with the OFF CAMPUS activities of some students.
Will to power is all the justification they need. Power corrupts, and they are the ones with it now.
"Basking in the praise of the national press..."
Harvard: Pravda Approved.
I am Laslo.
Protected groups have privileges denied the non-protected.
Women, meet petard...
Bwahahahahahahahah.......
" it's now supposed to adopt sex discrimination itself and remove the pressure on the all-female institutions? "
Why not? It already adopted racial discrimination by admitting Obama and ethnic discrimination by hiring Elizabeth Warren under the guise of being a Native American. Some forms of discrimination are ok -- others, not so much.
Feminism: the theory that women are special.
Of course, I am not expecting consistency from Progs, but: if any form of private association that perpetuates privilege must be dismantled, what justification is there for the continued existence of Harvard itself?
Seems the Left can't decide whether integration or preferences for "victims" is the better goal here. Seems they want both at the same time and will be disappointed with the results no matter what.
Lesson--don't try to please the Left.
Harvard will be responsible for the resurgence of all male clubs which will go deeply underground. This move is so outrageous it is bound to create resistance.
On the other hand, men may now be so pussified that they will do as they are told. Perhaps they will have bake sales for the all-female clubs, or sublease their real estate to them at money-losing rents.
Girl with the Pony Tail on the Treadmill:
Tuesday the boss and the executives and all the male salesmen are going out to play golf.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Of course none of the office women were invited.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
So no doubt we'll all go out to lunch together and bitch about it.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
All the men in their expensive cars and their expensive golf clubs.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I wouldn't want to go, but it'd be nice to be invited.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Instead I'll be with all the women bitching how unfair it is.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
It sucks either way.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
After golf all the men will no doubt go out for drinks.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
They'll probably talk about which girls in the office they want to fuck.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I see how some of them stare at my ass when they think I'm not looking.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Then on Wednesday they'll be at the office all 'buddy-buddy'. Calling each other 'Bro' and shit.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
It sucks. I hate golf.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
But I'd learn to play golf if it got me an Audi.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I am Laslo.
The principle is: all that is not explicitly permitted is prohibited. There is no room for private, individual conscience; all must conform.
"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
I love how Harvard is F'ed either way and that they walked into this themselves. This sounds as if they were playing chess and checkmated themselves.
I bet a month ago the all-male clubs met and said, "let's protest, but secretively promote them requiring co-ed membership of the all-male clubs. Then let's see them deal with forcing the all-female clubs to react."
How about the novel concept of free association?
This is a wonderful turn of events. Since we operate here in the very rarefied air of symbol and gesture --these clubs are legal, they profess and practice nothing evil or even offensive, but Harvard must crush them to Prove It Cares-- I hope that the tears and cries of the women are widely reported and long discussed. Let the sorry little drama play out, publicly, for months. This is about Harvard's branding strategy, which appears to be based on New Coke.
Sebastian said...
Feminism: the theory that women are special.
Correction: Feminism: the theory that women are special snowflakes.
I've ordered "The Collapse of Complex Societies" to better understand what is happening.
Who would have imagined that "1984" was an instruction manual?
I am still amazed that women will carry on about how great men have it and that they want to be treated more like a man and when they actually do, complain that they did not actually want "that".
Kind of like when the big-O promised to "fundamentally transform" America and then he did and all of those folks then said "but this is not what I wanted...".
Lesson 1: Always define your terms and make sure those definitions are agreed by all.
Cause, as everyone should know by now: "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."
Ever hung out at a left-wing protest? No matter the particular issue that sparked the protest, the issues of the protest are always the same--a very long list of grievances from across the left-wing complain-o-sphere. Radical Marxists, Radical Feminists, Radical Environmentalists, Radical _______, etc. whining about every aspect of American society you can think of. That is part of the reason why liberals always ultimately fail--it's like herding cats and no one has the courage to say no to any word or deed by any left-approved activist. (Another, related, reason is that they always over-play their hand.)
Of course they rushed through this attack on men without pausing to think about how it is also an attack on women. But not to worry, the apologists (some of whom will be members of the male groups that are being disbanded) are already working out the messaging that explains why it's ok to ban male groups while allowing female groups.
Now, of course, if the Harvard clubs were smart they'd say that they no longer restrict membership to men only and that they right this moment have both genders as members. If pressed they should claim that they have some number of members who are biologically male but who (at the time the club's membership was surveyed) identify as female. Problem solved.
Ann Althouse said...So, once Harvard has made the big change and set up incentives to pressure private institutions to abandon their single-sex tradition, it's now supposed to adopt sex discrimination itself and remove the pressure on the all-female institutions?
I mean...yeah, obviously that's what's supposed to happen. That's the basis of any number of Left-approved policies, isn't it? Minority contracting set-asides, gerrymandering districts along racial lines, affirmative action generally; all kinds of stuff. The rule isn't "discrimination is never permitted," the rule is more like "discrimination that doesn't serve our goals/purposes isn't permitted" where our = the Left.
Hey, the Fed. Gov. is threatening to withhold federal $ from NC over the "bathroom law" that state passed--remember when the Left wailed and moaned about how calamitous it would be for the government to shut down (and stop sending $ to states) for even a few days? The consequence for the state is the same, but the MOTIVE is different, so hurting NC in this case would be ok. The MOTIVE for prohibiting membership in men-only clubs is good, so it's ok; the MOTIVE in failing to prohibit membership in women-only clubs is also good, so that's ok, too. No contradiction there!
When a baker refuses to make that wedding cake the Left is outraged, but when a musician refuses to play in NC (having already sold tickets for shows there) the Left applauds. MOTIVE and effect is all that matters, and of course that means it's really not an issue of actual principle, it's a matter of power.
The point isn't that these people are as silly and solipsistic as children still in the earliest stage of ethical development.
The point is that these people get to rule the rest of us.
It's an easy go-around for the Left.
The problem being addressed is white male privilege as clearly demonstrated in all-male clubs. So, do away with those clubs, but there's no reason to mess with the all-female or all-black clubs. Those clubs are addressing the problem, not playing a part in it.
How simple.
Oh screw their demands.
You want equality?
Deal with equality.
Harvard shouldn't be interfering in PRIVATE clubs as is. But if these whiny busy bodies want to demand it, then make them suffer the consequences. If they don't, I hope some members of those all-male clubs who are also Harvard Law students decide to punish Harvard.
pssst, also, Republicans, why not get over your fear of taxes and tax the Harvard endowment?
Also, is this more of how feminism seeks to make men and women equals? Because if it is, I don't think they "get" equality.
Lesson--don't try to please the Left.
There's never a good to it, that's for sure. The Left is becoming notoriously short-sighted. All of these people demanding rape kangaroo courts don't want to be forced to consider what removing due process will due to them in the future. Because the pendulum always swings.
Lesson 1: Always define your terms and make sure those definitions are agreed by all.
Indeed. Which is why intelligent activists should begin demanding that in the tranny bathroom demands. DEFINE transsexual. Concrete definitions only. Feelings shouldn't be mentioned once.
I wonder what it would take for a young student to consider not attending Harvard?
"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
Sounds socialist to me. How does that sound to others here?
John Henry
To develop the obvious point: the women's complaint creates a dilemma for President Faust (such a perfect name! Did Tom Wolfe write this scene?). She can hold the line and suffer endless whining about the unfairness of punishing girls for the sins of old white males. Result: damaged brand. Or she can cave and make a special deal, because girls are special; and then she can take the lawsuit brought by the men for the violation of Title IX. Result: damaged brand.
Best part of this is the own-goal by the Smartest People Ever.
I am collecting the tears and will distill them into a 200-proof Schadenfreude, to be served ice-cold with caviar.
All-Male Clubs ordered to cease function. Women hardest hit.
Republicans, why not get over your fear of taxes and tax the Harvard endowment?
This is an excellent idea, but it should extend to all schools.
I'm a contact for a named, endowed scholarship at a University. The amount distributed to a single student each year is a pittance, and I'm planning to start advocating the University to spend down the entire thing. Ideally the spend-down will end with the closing of the scholarship at about the same time the last person at the University who remembers the person whose death the scholarship sprang from retires.
I am skeptical that the political will to tax endowments exists at the moment. Unions who control Universities -- and who have done much to require, for example, that teacher promotions require University attendance, or that Nursing Jobs require University attendance, certainly aren't on board. Investment Banker Firms aren't on board either. If the unhealthy co-dependency of Unions and Universities can be broken, there's a better chance of that happening.
Ever hung out at a left-wing protest?
Yes -- when I lived in San Francisco years ago, just blocks from Civic Center Plaza. The atmosphere was thick with moral preening and virtue signalling, from the rostrum to the edges of the crowd. And no matter what the thing being protested was, Mumia Abu-Jamal's name and image always managed to come up.
rehajm said...
I wonder what it would take for a young student to consider not attending Harvard?
Really Harvard isn't quite the draw it used to be--especially to the thoughtful, analytical intelligent kids that aren't easily impressed by name schools. Mention you go to Harvey Mudd, MIT, CMU or certain state schools (further delineated by program, major or school) and the reaction is what Harvard used to impress a couple generations ago. Most of these kids regard the Ivies with a bit of suspicion. As the mother of a kid with rock-solid academic credentials, when she visited Harvard, her impression was "tourist attraction". Visited two other Ivies--applied to one only to withdraw the application (despite legacy/connections etc...). Thoughtfully applied to other excellent schools, accepted to all of them. Picked the school that had strong academics, great social atmosphere, and--comparatively little SJW navel gazing.
Spend some time reading student forums such as College Confidential--it'll restore your faith in the next generation : )
I think it's insane how the modern American left seeks to utterly destroy any private association where a grievance group is excluded or merely underrepresented. Pretty soon the Catholic Church will be targeted for excluding Muslims from Communion.
Turn about is .... Sauce for the goose....
Ought to be a lot more of this. The new rules should be tested often and publicly.
I'm still waiting for a throng of college males to appear before the rape tribunals to declare they were sexually abused by women they slept with months ago. Then see if the rules, procedures and outcomes are the same.
Or gather a cluster of your bro's and march into the women's locker room at Planet Fitness.
Have the bench warmers for the men's basketball team show up for try outs for the women's team.
The harsh light of reality would serve as potent disinfectant.
I suspect the reason the consequences were "unexpected" is the pernicious belief among the grand poobahs of academia that double standards are acceptable; one set for the victims and another set for the oppressors.
It is dogma that discrimination is acceptable as long as you're discriminating against the bad people and in favor of the good people and the grand poobahs get to decide which among us are good or bad.
Harvard should just become an all women school.
"... prompting all-female groups to ask the administration to consider them in a different vein from their all-male counterparts.'
No. fuck you ladies. You get into our clubs we get into yours. What is this bullshit? You don't want men to intrude on your safe spaces? AH! Well that holds true for men when you keep nosing around. Stay away.
"The students further accused Harvard of pushing for “hasty, symbolic victories” as a “form of damage control” following negative media attention on final clubs. “The support systems, safe spaces, and alumnae networks the women’s clubs have been striving to build will disappear,” they wrote. “That strikes us as a tremendous waste, and an ironic one, given Harvard’s stated goals.”..."
Sounds pretty accurate.
In Sussex, WI last year there was a huge uproar because the Lion's club delayed the application of a local woman whose husband encouraged her to apply. The long time members, who have raised millions of dollars and donated 90% of it locally over the decades, were concerned about what it would mean for the Lioness Club and delayed approving the application.
Every August, Lion's Daze in Sussex has been the biggest event in town for the last 50 years.
The National Lion's Chapter freaked, and about 1/3 of the Lions resigned in basic disgust. Many had been in the Lions club for 20 to 30 years.
When I was a kid my Great-Uncle was a Lion, and his wife a Lioness. Nobody gave a shit. But, their generation went through WWII.
I would figure that women want to bust into men's only clubs more than men want to bust into women's only clubs, unless the guys find it a good place to pick up women.
I demand access to all feminists safe spaces. Since they are set up to deny access to men and members of the patriarchy they need to be opened up to me and my evil male ideas and penis.
Being progressive is so complicated.
Fortunately, being progressive means being able to rationalize most anything. Only the sad clingers in flyover country are unable to embrace mutually contradictory propositions.
This seems to be how its going to go with women's bathrooms and locker rooms too. Sorry ladies, us men are coming in.
There's some big money for the taking on the LPGA tour for the first guy that want's to go to court and bust in. For that kind of cash, maybe modifying your gender identity would be worth it.
Plus, the LPGA is loaded with lesbians that support this type of flexibility.
Some starving bastard walking around on the Nike tour could retire early.
This reminds me of the "baby trials" held during the [ongoing] dysfunctional revolution, that fails to reconcile moral and natural imperatives, and ultimately denigrates individual dignity and debases human life.
Being progressive is so complicated
Progress is an [unqualified] monotonic process, which when combined with liberalism exhibits ever larger variance or deviance from an established (e.g. natural, normal) state.
There's some big money for the taking on the LPGA tour for the first guy that want's to go to court and bust in. For that kind of cash, maybe modifying your gender identity would be worth it.
Plus, the LPGA is loaded with lesbians that support this type of flexibility.
Some starving bastard walking around on the Nike tour could retire early.
I want to like this comment about eight times and then buy it a fancy dinner.
"There's some big money for the taking on the LPGA tour for the first guy that want's to go to court and bust in. For that kind of cash, maybe modifying your gender identity would be worth it.
Plus, the LPGA is loaded with lesbians that support this type of flexibility.
Some starving bastard walking around on the Nike tour could retire early."
Absolutely. And the gender identity modification could be as simple as wearing a skirt. Just to piss 'em off, make it a kilt and drive from the men's tees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7mdTrYgeCc
Absolutely. And the gender identity modification could be as simple as wearing a skirt. Just to piss 'em off, make it a kilt and drive from the men's tees.
If I recall correctly, didn't the Olympics used to have DNA testing to ensure that men weren't competing in women's sports?
Wasn't that called cheating.
Now its called transphobic.
I demand access to all feminists safe spaces. Since they are set up to deny access to men and members of the patriarchy they need to be opened up to me and my evil male ideas and penis.
Seems feminists don't grasp that, just like with women, sometimes men don't want to be bothered by the opposite sex. Love my wife to death --- but if I'm with her every moment of every day, I'd be looking for a gun to shoot myself with.
Same with her.
There's some big money for the taking on the LPGA tour for the first guy that want's to go to court and bust in. For that kind of cash, maybe modifying your gender identity would be worth it.
Also women's tennis (Serena Williams, as good as she is, would be wiped out by almost any guy in the top 200 and you'd be play much shorter matches). Women's soccer. The WNBA --- hell, you might actually get people to WATCH it.
Burn the fucker down.
Reminds me of the hubbub because the US Women's Soccer Team made less money than the men's team, in spite of them being really good and the men...not. Ignoring that men's soccer draws several times more viewers than women's soccer and is worth many times more money in TV rights fees.
If I recall correctly, didn't the Olympics used to have DNA testing to ensure that men weren't competing in women's sports?
Wasn't that called cheating.
Now its called transphobic.
East Germany was quite a Progressive place.
MM for the thread winner:
MadisonMan said...
All-Male Clubs ordered to cease function. Women hardest hit.
yeah, why would a Harvard female ever want to join a ten year old all female finals club when the doors are open at the original final clubs...
I wonder if Harvard has thought 12 months out. Beyond the sexual assault angle, the underlying reason for the SJW types at Harvard to want these all male final clubs to be co-ed because they are the quintessential old boys clubs in the country where male friendships make millions over a lifetime.
If they thought a bit farther, they'd have figured out that the majority of Harvard's big alumni donors were male final club members and these changes will impact the Harvard bottom line over the next 10 years. Slower than Mizzou, but bigger...
@The Drill SGT
.
Harvard appears to be attempting to do something that is impossible. Being asked to join one of these clubs is being asked to join the in-crowd. Harvard is seeking to eliminate the in-crowd by eliminating the clubs.
Why are Harvard administrators trying to eliminate the in-crowd? Because the people they think should be the in-crowd weren't being invited.
But eliminating the clubs won't get their people into the in-crowd. The in-crowd will just find another way to express their in-crowdedness.
The Drill SGT: "...If they thought a bit farther, they'd have figured out that the majority of Harvard's big alumni donors were male final club members and these changes will impact the Harvard bottom line over the next 10 years. Slower than Mizzou, but bigger…"
Bingo. I guess in any big organization the departments have trouble coordinating. Right now I am enjoying the imagined scene in which the Alumni Relations team has called the Sexual Correctness Policy team and is screaming into the phone, "You did WHAT?!?!!!"
Repeal Title IX.
Non-problem solved.
The male final clubs are now officially on double secret probation.
No, "unexpected" is the correct word.
It is expected that men will submit to a set of rules that while publicly 'applying to everyone' will only be enforced on men. This is one of those unwritten laws we've lived under for decades.
I want to care and be outraged, but honestly, just f*ck these guys. My kids aren't smart enough for Harvard, and even if they were I am not inclined to fund this stupidity. Hell, even the Service Academies are going full SJW these days. Hope the kids enjoy a trade schools.
I'll believe Harvard considers this a serious issue when they challenge the NCAA patriarchy and integrate Harvard's sports teams, insisting there be men on the women's teams and women on the men's teams.
"There's some big money for the taking on the LPGA tour for the first guy that want's to go to court and bust in. For that kind of cash, maybe modifying your gender identity would be worth it. "
Well, first you'll have to become Korean. The LPGA tour is dominated by foreigners, lots of them Korean. Winners on the tour often can barely speak enough English to be interviewed for TV, but after their first victory they become such consistent winners they pick up English quickly and it is no longer a handicap.
holdfast said...
I want to care and be outraged, but honestly, just f*ck these guys. My kids aren't smart enough for Harvard,
connected enough rather than smart enough
Malia is going to Harvard, but I doubt she was the top of her class at Sidwell...
A little inside baseball:
(1) As far as Harvard's action is concerned, this was both expected and intended. It's an anti-club policy, not an anti-male policy.
(2) The faculty has long despised and sought to marginalize the final clubs, as they tended to pick members who would be successful in politics, business, or old money society - not academia, but for that reason the final clubs always had the protection of influential alumni members.
(3) The growing size of the graduate student body relative to the stagnant size of the undergraduate student body has made the undergraduate final clubs less and less relevant to the university as a whole. But that means alumni like George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Ted Cruz who got their undergraduate degrees elsewhere before going to the Harvard business school or law school weren't eligible for membership.
(4) Following the 2008-2009 financial crisis, Harvard increased the size of its governing board from 7 to 13, which presented an opportunity to stack the corporation board.
(5) If this latest attack on the final clubs is successful, it can be scored as an institutional failure by the final clubs during the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s to accurately predict and select as members the people who would be influential Harvard alumni or on the Harvard corporation board today.
The Harvard Administration is using the Final Club business as a smokescreen for the real problem. I am tired of writing the same info repeatedly so I am quoting my comments in the WSJ:
"It would be very helpful if the WSJ would follow up on what the President and Dean are doing to address the really frightening issue that 75% of the unwanted sexual contact reported by senior women took place in Harvard owned and Harvard administered dormitories. It seems to me that most of the reporting has been a lazy repetition of the administration's propaganda. Why doesn't a reporter ask the Dean " What are you doing to address the much higher number of reported incidences that took place in the Harvard Dorms?"
As a point of reference the % of campus wide incidences that took place in the Final Clubs was 10% of the total. By contrast 75% of the campus wide 31% of reported incidences took place in Harvard dorms. If this were an exam question you would be asked to determine whether Harvard is addressing the most important problem."
AND
"We should all be aware that the sexual contact statistic used as justification for this rule is a smoke screen. The 47% number is certainly inappropriate, but - according to the survey of senior women - it only includes those seniors who participated (willingly) in Final Club activities. The 31% is campus wide and the most frightening thing about the 31% is that 75% of the unwanted sexual touching took place in the Harvard Dorms run by the Harvard administration. I'll say that it in a different way: 75% of the unwanted sexual touching experienced by senior women took place in the Harvard dormitories. I don't see anything in this news that indicates what Harvard is going to do about its far more serious problem in the dorms.
There is legitimate concern about inappropriate sex at the Final Clubs, but the reality is the administration is using its power to order individuals' (both men and women) private, social lives while covering up the real location of the problem."
I am an alumnus, not a final club member, and I think what Harvard is doing is ludicrous in this case as well as the Law School Crest issue and the "what do we call the Housemasters?" issue.
My wife graduated from Radcliffe, formerly the female half of Harvard, but all her classes were co-ed and taught by Harvard profs. Back in the day, the lesser renowned Radcliffe was in reality far more selective in who was admitted than Harvard was. These days, the offspring of any old US president can get into Harvard. Since my wife graduated, the Women of Harvard have driven out the last male president of the school, made a Faustian bargain with the appointment of a female president, and achieved considerable progress in the complete feminization of the institution. The transformation of Harvard back into Radcliffe is nearly accomplished but for minor unimportant details.
Left bank of the Charles' observations are also on the money.
@ Iapetus Radcliffe was much smaller therefore more selective. The ladies were frighteningly intelligent and, of course, outworked the majority of the males. I like your point that this is an almost completed hostile takeover of Harvard by Radcliffe. Who'd a thunk it?
To expand on what khesanh0802 said...
One can be on their guard if you are a female attending a function in a Final Club.
It's tough to be on your guard 24/7 in your own dorm.
Let's not forget, that Harvard is where Larry Summers was driven from the Presidency by a bevy of shrieking harpies, for the unpardonable sin of suggesting that the greater number of males in Math and the Sciences might have a genetic cause. One of the harpies said that hearing this idea aired made her physically ill. This woman was supposedly a biologist, but encountering the idea that a behavioral difference between the sexes of a mammalian species might be of genetic origin made her physically ill. Wait until the poor thing finds out where babies come from.
@ Owen Perfect analysis of what's going on in Cambridge. I'll buy as many bottle of the booze as you can make!
I've always wondered at how people who are supposed to be so smart can be so dumb!
where babies come from
The State-established Church assures us that on good authority (i.e. gods in the twilight zone) babies are delivered by stork through a process known as "spontaneous conception". Abortion rites are simply an administrative option exercised by the receiver to cancel or refuse delivery of the unwanted, inconvenient, or mislabeled package.
It's this kind of story that makes me somewhat sympathetic to libertarians -- why not let those who want them enter into any kind of club structure they wish to. My guess is that all male clubs would be the confines of effete pudgy weirdos who view history from the point of view that they would naturally be members of the ruling elite. And all the female clubs would be populated by angry and unattractive feminists. The great majority of normal students would join the co-ed clubs, and would find that their experience socializing and coordinating with members of the opposite sex was a great advantage as they enter the real world.
Why dont men want women intruding on their private clubs. This explains it:
https://youtu.be/9-6GuttRWGE
Women are clinging. They sap the life out of the things you are interested in and make it about them. I'm sure women, when dealing with the things they are interested have the same idea about men. "What's he doing here? Why's he here at the man hating club?" I'd think if you went to an all girl all boy club there's probably a reason for it. We have (had) the right to free association. Its a glorious thing to sometimes not have women around. That's why men build man caves in the basement. to get away from the ever present femininine sidekick.
So if some of these are residential frats, they still want to open them to women (and women's sororities to men)? Well...
The class of 2017 at Harvard is 49.8% female and 50.1% male (and 0.1% "other", as if there is such a thing). Harvard doesn't need Alumna groups, "safe spaces" or exclusively-female finals clubs any more than it needs Alumni groups, "safe spaces" for men or exclusively-male finals clubs. Get rid of one, get rid of the other. I thought feminism was for equality between the sexes, not for special privileges for one and permanent victim status.
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