"... and who lead such movements as the National Front, in France, and the Independence Party, in the United Kingdom. Vladimir Putin and Trump have expressed mutual admiration. It’s not hard to see why. Putin has obliterated the early shoots of Russian democracy as evidence of weakness and obeisance to the West; his eighty-per-cent popularity rating is built on arousing nationalism and a hatred of minorities (ethnic and sexual), the suppression of dissent, and a bare-chested macho image. Trump says approvingly, 'At least he’s a leader, unlike what we have in this country.'"
David Remnick states the theory.
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73 comments:
I've disagreed with David Remnick and the New Yorker's leftist and devout anti-Republican politics for more than a decade.
I'm not going to start agreeing with him now, just because he hates Trump as much as I do.
But get ready for it, my fellow Trump-hating Republicans; the Donald Trump phenomenon will be made to be our fault. Notwithstanding the fact that we didn't produce him, we don't like him and he doesn't represent us.
There should be a process by which people enter the country legally.
Whoa...take it easy Hitler!
Messianism.
Another possiblity is that the wave of "xenophobes" coming to power are a reaction to elites in the West who despise their own populations and are working hard to engineer new, more pliant ones?
Naah! It's just one more mystery.
Who made Trump the frontrunner?
"There seems to be an emerging agreement that America's Leftist hegemony did. Obama and the Democrats did -- along with their sycophants in the media, the bureaucracy and the education system. They have foisted on America so many weird forms of correctness that the ordinary American has been left completely out of it:
Homosexuals are glorious; Men who feel they are women should be allowed to use women's restrooms; Fighting global warming is the main job of the armed forces; Only Muslims are allowed to pray in public; Christians must betray their faith in the service of homosexuals; little kids must be given lessons about sex; Women should be put into frontline combat as Marines; you must not say anything negative about Muslims or illegal immigrants or blacks etc etc.
All of these positions go against the grain for normal people but it is they who are told they are wrong, not the Leftist establishment. And if you express your honest opinion you run the risk of losing your job."
Trump is an anti-PC missle, the PC problem being the highest priority in national debate.
After that, some Trump supporter can help Trump with his more idiotic policy positions.
We need his press conferences though. No journalist survives with his faux dignity intact.
Remnick paints with too broad a brush. The Atlantic, and progressives in general, enjoy painting all conservatives as fascists, and have enjoyed doing so since they were first able to convince themselves that National Socialists weren't really socialists, after all. So Remnick lacks enough colors on his palette to paint the difference between Trump and Cruz.
I can't stand the way pro-illegal immigration people try to turn anti-illegal immigration and anti-questionable immigration (undocumented people from terrorist-laden war zones) into xenophobia.
They do it with such ease. Do they know they are lying, or do they not know the difference?
Anyway, if they want to know what fuels people to listen to Trump, they need to look at themselves. They are helping create the situation by refusing to listen and acknowledge the difficulty of the issue.
Pull the camera back and the star Merak can be viewed as part of a pattern that looks like a large water cup with a long handle.
Chuck, he is the Republican's fault and he sure as hell does not represent Democrats. All those years of demonizing Obama and fear mongering about him being a scary black socialist and an 'uber president' made by your party created a climate in which the monster could thrive. He speaks to xenophobics and bigots, they lap it up and raise their hands to swear to vote for him. He would never had gotten so far if he had run as. Democrat, the Republican Party was chosen by him for a good reason. Then to make matters worse, the Republicans didn't nip him in the bud in a timely manner and now he's uncontrollable. Anyone but Trump, 2016.
And Oso Negro, National Socialists were Fascists, which were/are far right wing.
fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; More
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Amanda, there do seem to be Democrats who like Trump. And may even be voting for him in open primaries.
"24 carat skyscrapers"?
You let that pass, Professor?
I think the article is more an expression of the fear that grips Democrats as they see Trump detaching numbers of their designated voting blocs and realize these people may not be coming back even if Trump goes away.
"Pull the camera back" and we see yet another bien-pensant trying to explain away the grotesquely corrupt and irresponsible behavior of Western elites with yet another pile of stale propaganda.
MayBee- I think most of the people who buy into the "TrumpHitler" meme are sincere. Many of them are actually smart people who have been so marinated in leftist pieties that they lack the ability to think. Also many of them (especially the smart ones) just don't know much about anything. Here in my latte town (kind of a Madison-Lite) there has been a big brew-ha-ha about the local college's mascot. I would bet huge piles of cash that the vast majority of people agitating for the change know nothing about the individual in question (Jeffery Amherst) nor anything about the time in which he lived.
And Fernandinande- I couldn't have put it better!
What is missing is that this is a world wide rebellion against the failed policies of the Left, and the Establishment. (which is the same thing in most Western nations today)
If responsible politicians had been listening to their people rather than contemptuously ignoring or berating them, the revolt wouldn't be happening.
Things are going to get much uglier around the world before they get any better.
But get ready for it, my fellow Trump-hating Republicans; the Donald Trump phenomenon will be made to be our fault.
Trump is the fault of the Republican Establishment, which truly does hate him, and the people who support him, even as they feel entitled to their votes.
Notwithstanding the fact that we didn't produce him,
If you are a member of the Republican Establishment, or one of their lackeys, you most certainly did.
we don't like him
You don't like anyone who won't endorse business as usual.
and he doesn't represent us.
That is most certainly true, and the biggest reason people support him.
And Oso Negro, National Socialists were Fascists,
True.
which were/are far right wing.
Nope. Mussolini was a Socialist for Christ's sake. He edited a Socialist newspaper and was active in Leftist politics. Fascism was his answer to Communism, and the reason why Communists and fascists hate each other so much is that they are competing for the same supporters.
Amanda, The left and right of Europe in the 1920s and 1930s was UNLIKE left and right of America today. Examine the 25 Points of National Socialism and you will find MUCH more their in common with Bernie Sanders than Ted Cruz. Why? It's the socialism, sweetie!
I do not support Trump, but cannot help but admire the way he makes a certain type apoplectic.
Supporting your own nation is nationalistic and bad, but tearing your nation down and eliminating borders is good?
No, not so Oso Negro. Not at all, that is why your Party and your conservative movement is essentially shattered right now. You see things through a very cloudy filter based on all the phobias and isms. Own it.
"Many of them are actually smart people who have been so marinated in leftist pieties that they lack the ability to think. Also many of them (especially the smart ones) just don't know much about anything."
In other words not really very smart at all.
A little nationalism is not necessarily a bad thing. At least as a counter to open border suicide. Look at what's happening in Europe. They opened their borders to thousands of refugees. And it's decimating their societies which are designed to provide for the people there, not hundreds of thousands more.
Sweden doesn't have housing for its own people. Now it has to come up with housing for refugees. Who don't assimilate.
The center will not hold.
Germany welcomed all these refugees with open arms. Now they are backtracking on what they will allow. Because obviously, having to deal with that number of people has proven to be costly and burdensome. And people who live there, feel the press on their own lives.
Govt is supposed to look out for the people that it governs. Not overload the system till it crashes. Because they want to virtue signal.
This is why trump is popular. He rightly recognizes or at least articulates to his base the problem with illegal immigration, and even legal immigration if it shocks the system. If nationalism means pushing back against overloadi g the system, then what's wrong with nationalism?
Maybe it's more of a populism, anyway.
I don't fault him for articulating the issue. He's just not very good at it.
I'm trying to envision a deadly serious wave. Dude!
Gahrie, you really want to stand on that trump hill. You may end up dying on it.
If his candidacy goes down in flames because he really doesn't have any support beyond the trumpbots and we get Hillary, we will blame YOU. And if he gets elected and starts ruling like a democrat, which we all know he will, we will blame YOU.
Trump is now calling Romney a loser. if trump gets fewer votes than Romney in the general, do you not realize the degree to which we will both slam him and his supporters?
You despise the "establishment" but you vote for the guy who is the biggest establishment candidate out there. He even says "something's you have to be establishment" Indeed.
he walks back his opposition to H1-B visas because he never really had it to begin with. If establishment repubs did just you'd hate them with all your might and demand we get a trump in there to clean the place out. But when Trump does it, yay Trump!
I'm wondering then why you even hate establishment repubs? Are you even a repub? Or do you just want to destroy the party and think trump is the best way to achieve it?
The world of Trump interpretation is rife with straw man creations, half-truths, unfounded assumptions, hidden assumptions and outright ad hominem. This Remnick screed is an example of such. It is a variation on Godwin’s Law, with Putin replacing Hitler.
And this is based on Trump being put on the defensive by MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough when Joe confronted Trump with a quotation of Putin complimenting Trump as “very talented.” Trump took the silly tact of coming to the defense of someone who had said something positive about his candidacy against an adversarial interviewer. It is one of the few instances I’ve seen of Trump blowing an interview.
http://tinyurl.com/h57mcu8
But to leap from this one wrong note to the undeserving conclusion that Trump is an American version of Putin on the rise is overreach at it’s most wretched. Anxiety is in full sway now that Trump has shown unexpected strength and growing credibility and this type of hysteria is a symptom of that anxiety.
And I believe they know deep down that whether Trump succeeds in his campaign or not that the cozy little vessel the establishment has been sailing, blithely ignoring the sharks devouring everyone but them, has sprung a leak and is listing badly. Trump may ultimately be denied the nomination and I am fine with that as long as the rules are followed. But this deep dissatisfaction is not going to go away – Trump or no Trump.
Also: The movements cited in France and the United Kingdom as part of the author’s evidence of dangerous and connected political uprisings are more examples of overreach. They are instead healthy and long needed reactions against the complacent regimes of their nations’ governing classes since the end of WW2.
Trump is not those things. He's implemented a viable verbal strategy of hyperbole to combat ridiculous gotcha debate formats and sound bite torpedoes launched by political opponents, and it's frustrated them to no end.
Let's encourage Remnick to go live under the reign of one those authoritarians and xenophobes so he'll understand the difference.
Putting ex-totalitarian, ex-communist party, ex-KGB officers and center right parties of Poland and Hungary into one basket. This is a sign of an utter retardation.
Had the majority of right wingers been smarter they would've recognized that by stirring up the lowest of human emotion in the least intelligent of their base they could create something they could lose control of. When McConnell said shortly after the inauguration that Republican's goal would be to make Obama a one term President he sent out the first volley. Then when right wing pundits and talkers shouted out bigotry and xenophobia on a daily basis and when even Republican House and Senate members slyly demurred on questions regarding Obama's citizenship, his loyalties and even his sexual identity, it further stirred the underlying bigotry in the ripe and ready masses. The unsettled immigration issues and the repeated attempts at immigration legislation, was which was thwarted by Republicans and last but not least the pushback against civil rights for same sex people, was the cherry on top of a pile of stinking xenophobia and bigotry. Good work Republicans, the slow learners in your midst lapped it up. It's no one's fault but your own. Trump is what happens when the unthinking masses are manipulated into thinking that their 'way of life' is being threatened. Change happens and societies that can adapt survive, those that don't adapt well, create Trumps and those like him. We would be wise to learn from history.
I hope you'll forgive me if I wince upon reading the words "nationalism" and "Germany" in the same comment.
Overheard just yesterday:
We were discussing the concept of "The American Dream" in my intro Sociology class and Professor __ asked one of my classmates, a German exchange student, if Germans have anything comparable — a "German Dream, if you will."
Exchange student classmate: "We did. But nobody liked it."
Vladimir Putin and Trump have expressed mutual admiration.
Obama laughed off the idea that Russia was any kind of national security threat to the United States, and promised Russia he could be more flexible in accommodating their wishes in the future. Of course, that's not so much a sign of mutual admiration as it is one-way groveling.
part of a deadly serious wave
A description not of the million hostile foreigners who have come to Europe to rape and murder the native inhabitants, but of the elected officials who are trying to live up to their duty to protect their own nations.
Trump may not in fact be bringing millions of people to the GOP:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/05/donald-trump-has-not-brought-millions-and-millions-of-people-to-the-republican-party
Once we get tot the general we may find that this is the height of trump support. He never gets above 40%.
Repubs may ultimately hold their nose and vote for the guy because the alternative is Hillary. But he doesn't actually seem to be growing anything. He is losing support.
How many times in recent past has National review had a whole issue dedicated to not voting for the front runner? Trumpbots may despise the establishment, but what makes them think that they can win an election without their support? The numbers are simply not there.
Therefore trump is not really growing anything. He's adding some people but he's also taking away a lot more.
Amanda wrote:
Had the majority of right wingers been smarter they would've recognized that by stirring up the lowest of human emotion in the least intelligent of their base they could create something they could lose control of. When McConnell said shortly after the inauguration that Republican's goal would be to make Obama a one term President he sent out the first volley. Then when right wing pundits and talkers shouted out bigotry and xenophobia on a daily basis and when even Republican House and Senate members slyly demurred on questions regarding Obama's citizenship, his loyalties and even his sexual identity, it further stirred the underlying bigotry in the ripe and ready masses. The unsettled immigration issues and the repeated attempts at immigration legislation, was which was thwarted by Republicans and last but not least the pushback against civil rights for same sex people, was the cherry on top of a pile of stinking xenophobia and bigotry. Good work Republicans, the slow learners in your midst lapped it up. It's no one's fault but your own. Trump is what happens when the unthinking masses are manipulated into thinking that their 'way of life' is being threatened. Change happens and societies that can adapt survive, those that don't adapt well, create Trumps and those like him. We would be wise to learn from history.
and yet you are comparing trump to Hitler. We can be assured that if trump were the president the democrats would seek to make him a one term president and would argue his presidency was threatening their way of life.
What do you think all those people arguing they will leave the country if trump is elected are saying? It's the same argument. Maybe then, the left is just as malleable to threats of their way of life being threatened. And I'll note, that when Bush was in charge, many of those same arguments were being made.
If it were Ted Cruz, and nor trump, you'd be making the same arguments as well.
How serious is Trump?
Deadly.
Serious.
As serious as finding out that your HOA's "document transfer fees" are calculated as a percentage of home value rather than a fixed dollar amount. Yeah, Trump gets some of your equity on the sale of your condo.
Even Hitler wasn't as evil as Trump.
"He rightly recognizes or at least articulates to his base the problem with illegal immigration, and even legal immigration if it shocks the system." No: he cons his marks into thinking he will seriously address legal immigration and "even" legal immigration. That's the real skill of the "neophyte"--one he has honed over many years. Jeb, of all people, was more serious about reforming legal immigration than Trump. Not that it mattered, of course.
Remnick usefully signals the hysterical anti-fascism that's coming. One lesson of recent Western European experience is that while discontent with immigration is high enough to fuel powerful populist movements, those movements have not been powerful enough to dislodge the establishments and the majority of voters who support them. So far, anyway.
Gahrie, you really want to stand on that trump hill.
No..I don't. Trump scares the hell out of me. I'm one of the ones comparing him to Hitler.
You may end up dying on it.
Or alternatively I could die on the Bush hill, which would somehow be better, correct?
If his candidacy goes down in flames because he really doesn't have any support beyond the trumpbots and we get Hillary, we will blame YOU.
You don't get it...Trump exists because we blame you for allowing Obama to win twice, and then when we gave you control of Congress to limit the damage, you rolled over on us.
And if he gets elected and starts ruling like a democrat, which we all know he will, we will blame YOU.
You mean if he follows the lead of Boehner, McConnell and now even Ryan? What would be any different? Trump exists because the Establishment became Democrat-lite, and started attacking the Republican base and the Tea Party and started cutting deals with the Democrats.
I'm wondering then why you even hate establishment repubs?
1) Because they have spent the last thirty years insulting me.
2) Because for the last thirty years they have been telling me to shut up, and vote for the Establishment candidate, yet now when the shoe is on the other foot, somehow party loyalty is no longer important.
3) Because even after we gave them electoral landslides and clear mandates, the Establishment failed to limit the excesses of Obama, or act on Conservative issues.
Are you even a repub?
I've been a registered Republican since 1983.
Or do you just want to destroy the party and think trump is the best way to achieve it?
If my choice is Jeb Bush or destroy the party...then burn it down. Why should I want to preserve a party that has made its contempt for me abundantly clear?
Fascists were socialists that were not under direction of the Soviet Union. They didn't buy into class warfare and they believed that free markets remained necessary to insure they didn't squander scarce resources. All other socialists throughout the world were under the Soviet's thumb. The Soviet Union stood ready to send advisers and Party personnel should the locals mount a successful revolution.
Jeb, of all people, was more serious about reforming legal immigration than Trump. Not that it mattered, of course.
Yes..but Bush's answer was amnesty, legalization and then repeat the whole thing twenty years from now....not an acceptable answer for most of us.
Amanda I want to thank you sincerely, from the heart of my bottom, for proving my point in the first comment more effectively than I could have imagined.
Let's just all recall together, that Mitch McConnell calmly pledged to try to make Barack Obama a one-term president. And the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, the National Review and the Weekly Standard all calmly and steadfastly criticized Obama policies. Without slipping into "birtherism" and "secret Muslim" fantasies. Like, uh, somebody else we've gotten to know a bit better of late.
Amanda, the conservatives with whom I ally, are guilty of none of the sins you allege. Trump supporters are on their own.
Such sermons must be given seriously in the Church of high liberal idealism.
Serious stuff. Very, very serious.
Who wrote this endorsement of extra-constitutional authoritarianism?
Let there be a conversation. But also let there be decisive action from a President who is determined not only to feel our pain but, calling on the powers of his office, to feel the urge to prevent more suffering. His reading of the Constitution should no longer be constrained by a sense of what the conventional wisdom is in this precinct or that.
David Remnick.
It is important to not take people like Remnick seriously.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-obama-must-do-about-guns
"Amanda, the conservatives with whom I ally, are guilty of none of the sins you allege. Trump supporters are on their own."
I am sure Amanda will give you a cookie and a pat on the head for that. Who's a good boy? Chuck is! Chuck's a good boy!
She may even shoot you last.
More facists than you can shake a stick at.
Let's just all recall together, that Mitch McConnell calmly pledged to try to make Barack Obama a one-term president.
and $10 trillion dollars later, look how successful he was......
Tell you what...let us look at it from the other point of view...
Why should the Republican base put their faith in the Republican Establishment?
Theory? What theory?
I clicked through because of the paragraph quoted by Althouse to find out how Remnick supported his assertions about Poland and Hungary, and how he drew all the examples cited into a cohesive whole. But when I did I found that he offered no evidence and that the quoted paragraph was the sum total of what he had to say about the subject.
It was all characterization without evidence blythly assuming the reader's agreement.
Paco Wove' :
"Getting shot" by bicoastal liberals is pretty much at the bottom of my list. They don't know how to take the thing off 'Safe.'
It's always funny to watch Leftists like Amanda pretend socialism is not socialism is not Leftism.
Because: appeals to internet authority.
@G: "Yes..but Bush's answer was amnesty, legalization and then repeat the whole thing twenty years from now....not an acceptable answer for most of us." And unacceptable to me. But the mystery of the Trump con is the appeal of touchback amnesty without even an attempt at legal immigration reform. (And of course Trump has already begun to walk back even the very minimal special-skills visa phony-toughness he paraded until the day before yesterday.)
But the mystery of the Trump con is the appeal of touchback amnesty without even an attempt at legal immigration reform.
Don't expect reason or logic from Trump supporters. It is not about reason or logic. It is about anger....anger at the Democrats, anger at the Republican Establishment and anger at the status quo. The only thing that separates me from a Trump supporter is that I'm not quite mad enough to go full Howard Beale.
It is also about the belief that no matter what Trump may do as president, it can't be much worse than what we have now.
How many human lives have been sacrificed to please the bloodthirsty god of "Socialism"? It must be in the hundreds of millions. Commies used to talk about 'socialism with a human face.' What was the 'human face' concealing? What inhumanity lay beneath the mask?
The only candidate who confesses to being a socialist is Sanders. Hillary supposedly believes in 'gradualism', a form of Fabian Socialism.
Conservatives distrust Trump to the extent that they believe that he will pursue socialist policies.
"More facists than you can shake a stick at."
Bundle them.
If only I could unbundled cable...
To the Left patriotism and nationalism are bad things. Also bad is government of the people, for the people.
I'm sure everyone at the New Yorker loves illegal immigration, globalization, and would support 10 million Syrians coming to the USA.
Their self-interest and prejudices are OK, anyone who disagrees is a bigot,demagogue, fascist, racist, nazi, blah,blah.
Left-wing scaremongering is not new. To them its always 1933 and every patriot is a secret Hitler and Fascist. They painted Reagan in 1980 as the "new Hitler" - Ronnie was also supposed to be a closet Bigot using "Code words" to signal the always lurking and supposedly electorally significant KKK.
These people should be laughed at and mocked. Instead they are taken seriously - which shows how far left this country really is.
Both Trump supporters and the Democratic Party hate the so-called Republican Establishment.....
Hmmm
I'm a part of the Republican establishment.
I will give it a go: "Sure, we on the Left (and in the Media) have been calling anyone slightly to our right fascists and Nazis for as long as anyone can remember, but THIS time we mean it!"
So Leftist policies fail around the world (Greece, anyone?) and citizens turn to populist/nationalist Right-ish politics, and the fault for that is apportioned to...the Right. Makes sense.
Suddenly Messianic politics is scary? Wasn't such a problem back in 2008, but "this time it's different" I guess.
"Wasn't such a problem back in 2008"
It sure was for me.
I'm a part of the Republican establishment.
Take a bow........
Blogger Meade said...
"More facists than you can shake a stick at."
Bundle them.
3/6/16, 11:21 AM
--------------------------------------
short , pithy, witty, the thread winner
Trump is what happens when the unthinking masses are manipulated into thinking that their 'way of life' is being threatened.
Trump is what happens when idiot elitists start calling average Americans "unthinking masses."
Hey thanks, LarsPorsena!
The anti-native faction is on the march. They must feel good about progressive wars, [global] humanitarian disasters, mass exodus from second and third-world nations, and abortion rites that sacrifice the lives of millions of human lives annually.
Class diversity policies have a long and colorful history among anti-native factions.
"More facists than you can shake a stick at."
Bundle them.
Careful Meade, you're defining a word banned on this blog.
I'd like some changes in the direction Trump (apparently) intends. A "strong leader" in the Putin sense is technically impossible. We have sufficient safeguards for sure. These 'Trumpenfuhrer' warnings are just Trump's correctness-be-damned 'say whatever moves minds', and that smart high-status educated apparently people are vulnerable to it did give me pause. No more.
I do welcome Trump's "strong leader" persona in exactly one regard: a proof of concept for the rejection of PC and the rejection of elite-scold power. I'd like to see him doing more of this negotiating stuff I've heard so much about. I'd be impressed that he changes his mind if he first convinced me he knows+understands what his advisors have written on his "position paper" website.
According to David Remnick, anyone who doesn't hate his own ethnic group is a "xenophobe". So, yeah, I could see how, to David Remnick, it looks like xenophobia is busting out all over.
And Oso Negro, National Socialists were Fascists, which were/are far right wing.
AAaaaand Amanda demonstrates herself to be a historical illiterate. Yet again. A streak of DiMaggian proportion.
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