At Ithaca [College], one of the issues is the on-campus panel on Oct. 8, in which Tatiana Sy, a 2009 graduate, said she had a “savage hunger” to do everything in college. Another panelist, J. Christopher Burch, the chief executive of Burch Creative Capital who is also an alumnus, responded, “I love what the savage here said,” according to YouTube clips of the event. The moderator, Bob Kur, a former NBC News correspondent, joined in, pointing to Mr. Burch, saying, “You are driven,” and pointing to Ms. Sy and saying, “You’re the savage.” The men are both white, and Ms. Sy describes herself as Afro-Cuban. When Ms. Sy objected, Mr. Burch said, “It’s a compliment.”...Whether this incident justifies protest is up for debate, but I just want to say that, reading that, I was leaning toward blogging that it's sad that we've lost the freedom to play with language. But then I watched the video.
This is, for me, a very striking example of video making an impression that the standard fact-orient text of journalism fails to convey:
That man really is doing something quite offensive. Perhaps he has no awareness of it, but I suspect that he uses that style to achieve his professional ends all the time. He's the chief executive of Burch Creative Capital! I'm sure he feels at ease in his skin, exercising power, experiencing dominance. He doesn't merely flip the "savage hunger" language into a playful epithet, "the savage." He calls her a "girl," and she is consistently amiable, even when she finally, and in a very friendly way, voices a small objection to being called "the savage." She says, laughing, "All right, I mean." That's all! He then reaches out and pats her on her bare arm.
And all the while he's lolling back in his chair with his big, red-panted legs extended and crossed. You can see that he's trying to regain his grounding as his big foot flaps a tad desperately. But he doesn't sit up, he doesn't show any awareness that he's been diminishing her and that it isn't fun for her. His red pant leg is hiked halfway up his shin, he's not wearing socks, and the flapping foot is wearing a greenish slip-on shoe. He's so comfortable being himself there, and she's supposed to get it and like it. And she knows that too. She can't stop giggling and helping him feel good about himself.
I can see the reason for protesting, for reaching back to her, there, exposed on that stage, and to support her and to make him feel uncomfortable for a change.
Posts
119 comments:
Chris Burch is kinda a asshole.
I bet he a democrat.
He's probably paying her tuition.
He was saying it in a way that was meant to be a tribute. Plus, he probably forgot her actual name.
His estimated net worth (according to the internet) is $1 billion.
They are all alums!
Why would current students care?
From his Wikipedia article: "Burch was married in 1982, to married Susan Cole in an Episcopalian ceremony;[12] They had three daughters: Alexandra "Pookie" (b. 1985), Elizabeth "Izzie" (b. 1986), and Louisa "Weezie"(b. 1989).[8][9] In 1996, he married the fashion designer Tory Robinson[9][35][36] with whom he has three sons: twins Henry and Nicholas (b. 1997) and Sawyer (b. 2001).[8] They divorced in 2007."
He had his wife for girls and his wife for boys. Isn't that cute?
That's a compliment!
pat. pat. pat.
"it's sad that we've lost the freedom to play with language"
Faux sadness, right? After all these years of the Prog language police clamping down.
Prog logic requires that taking offense at a compliment requires mass protest.
But for all I know, even if the guy is a you-know-what, savage is meant as "welcome to the club."
Still, being called a bad word by a bad man at a public event is almost as bad as 4 million black lives starving in a swamp in South Sudan. Almost.
Ann Althouse said...
His estimated net worth (according to the internet) is $1 billion.
Aaaaand I'm supposed to be impressed?
Ann Althouse said...
From his Wikipedia article: "Burch was married in 1982, to married Susan Cole in an Episcopalian ceremony;[12] They had three daughters: Alexandra "Pookie" (b. 1985), Elizabeth "Izzie" (b. 1986), and Louisa "Weezie"(b. 1989).[8][9] In 1996, he married the fashion designer Tory Robinson[9][35][36] with whom he has three sons: twins Henry and Nicholas (b. 1997) and Sawyer (b. 2001).[8] They divorced in 2007."
11/13/15, 7:30 AM
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
He had his wife for girls and his wife for boys. Isn't that cute?
No. Not really.
It's a totally reasonable expectation to never have an uncomfortable encounter with someone whose manner one doesn't care for. Sure.
Guys like Burch live by the same rules as dogs who lick their private parts do: Because they can..
Althouse, that's a bizarre comment re a wife for daughters and a wife for sons. You seem unhinged.
The last I checked..investment bankers are almost always complete jerks.
It is part of the job...if they invest in you they own you..and you need to understand that.
If you are not interested in being owned then taking money from an investment banker is probably a bad idea.
He should just give his money and shut up. Seriously. What's the upside for him to be on any kind of panel?
What crap! That's all? And instead of concluding a mountain is being made from a molehill, Althouse wants to pile on, to find this guy, harass him, make him pay! Insult his clothes, body shame him, doxx him! I guess Althouse feels left out of all the cool protesting going on at other colleges. You really think this asses boorish behavior justifies organized protests and societal furor? Ridiculous. No wonder college kids are such puddingheaded weaklings- taking their cues from silly unserious people like you and professor Click.
Strikes me as a guy who is condescending to everybody.
And hasn't made enough money to be a Socialist like Bill Gates.
I am Laslo.
"The female of the species, being of a more fragile constitution, should not be exposed to uncomfortable ideas lest she collapse into tears. The weak womanly mind is hardly the place to formulate a proper response to offensive language."
- some Victorian era guy....or maybe a third wave feminist who knows.
The info about his wives and children is provided for context, as the question is how does this man relate to women. He had 3 girls, with cutesy nicknames, Pookie, Izzie, and Weezie, and he left them, when the oldest was only 11 to form a new marriage with a fashion designer. He evened the score, getting 3 boys, with Wife #2, and then he left them, when the oldest boys were 10. And he takes the stage, in playclothes, talks about "empathy," and calls a woman who graduated from college 7 years ago "girl."
Context.
Laslo has morphed into a serious-minded political commentator? Egad!
Would you like to be judged by your failed marriage, Althouse?
Classic Alpha Male.
Probably got laid that night with Sy or one of the audience members.
"Context" says AA. "Because he can" says I.
"He should just give his money and shut up. Seriously. What's the upside for him to be on any kind of panel?"
No, he can't pay his way out of everything. And the idea that he's just giving when he does a panel is absurd. He's used to winning and he performs his winning ways for the young. And what a kick in the head! They don't like it! They see something he doesn't see. There's something to learn here. Do you think what he should learn is that he should retreat into his wealth and not let the young people see him anymore? That is one lesson a person could take. The protesters are optimistic enough to think there are better lessons and that people like him can learn to be genuinely empathetic. They don't seem to be asking for much at all.
When people think they can draw conclusions about me based on my failed marriage, particularly people who don't know me, I just roll my eyes. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Those pants are Nantucket Reds -- they're not 'play clothes'. Thank G-d he wasn't wearing fucking shorts, amirite?
"Classic Alpha Male."
Yep.
And I think a lot of men don't like it.
How would you feel if Ms. Sy was your wife and you were in the audience watching him with her?
And you actually believe that a bunch of collegiate ninnies and thumbsuckers chanting and carrying signs and having their little sit-ins on campus makes that asshole uncomfortable? You're delusional. It only justifies the low regard conservatives have developed for these so called institutions of higher learning.
"Those pants are Nantucket Reds -- they're not 'play clothes'."
Well, I think Nantucket Reds are play clothes. What's the theory that they are not?
An interesting thing about Nantucket Reds is that they're supposed to fade to the color I've maintained is called "light red," but you all argued (when Carly Fiorina wore it a couple debates ago) was really just pink. So just let me say "Nantucket Red" is way for a man to wear pink. He's just so dominant he's got to tone it down. Link he's saying: I'm so manly I need to wear pink so I don't scare the little people.
"Thank G-d he wasn't wearing fucking shorts, amirite?"
He was showing an expanse of bare leg that's about equivalent to what you see in the usual oversized shorts.
So the world is full of jerks and jerkettes.
Who knew?
Just a theory of what's going on:
From the nice, non-racist, non-misogynist successful middle aged white man's (NMAWM) perspective: he sometimes make the mistake of thinking other people are as comfortable in their skin as he is in his, and lets down his guard and assumes wrongly that the other is a confident and successful equal who won't take offense at a perceived and unintended micro-aggression. In most cases, he is correct and the other confident non-NMAWM does not even detect the possibility that something could be interpreted as a micro-aggression. In other cases, his attempt at friendly banter ends up being micro-analyzed on the internet.
The lesson NMAWMs are learning is never to assume that non-NMAWMs are their confident equals but to be hyper-aware at all times of the sex, race, religion, etc. of the other person, not to say anything the least bit edgy or risque or ambiguous -- i.e., to presume that non-NMAWMs are vulnerable "others" and not strong, confident equals. I suppose this is good in some ways, but it is also kind of sad. A lot of NMAWMs only seem comfortable around (i) other NMAWMs and (ii) those non-NMAWMs that they have known long enough and well enough to be sure they are comfortable in their own skins.
NMAWMs don't feel sorry for themselves. But they are sad because it seems like some of the progress made over the last 50 years is being reversed.
Again, just a theory.
"His red pant leg is hiked halfway up his shin, he's not wearing socks, and the flapping foot is wearing a greenish slip-on shoe."
My goodness. A bit dramatic, no? What a big scary guy with his big red pant leg and his big flappy foot!!!! Oh noes!!!! Help that poor (ivy league grad) child!!!!
He's a dick. He's condescending and arrogant. She's a wimp. If it was an issue, confront it. Can't we just leave it at that? Why all the hand wringing over the level of offensiveness? And the protest? Fuck those stupid fucking brat kids.
Ann Althouse said...
"Classic Alpha Male."
Yep.
And I think a lot of men don't like it.
How would you feel if Ms. Sy was your wife and you were in the audience watching him with her?
You don't know Mrs. Tank.
Of course non-Alpha men don't like it.
"No, he can't pay his way out of everything."
What? I assume he's already given money to the school (or is about to) and that's why he's on the panel. If he wants to give, then just give.
"And the idea that he's just giving when he does a panel is absurd."
Sorry, I don't understand your meaning here.
"Do you think what he should learn is that he should retreat into his wealth and not let the young people see him anymore?"
Yes, I do.
The protesters are optimistic enough to think there are better lessons and that people like him can learn to be genuinely empathetic. They don't seem to be asking for much at all.
If you can watch the videos from Yale and Missouri and believe that you are naive. They are counting coup.
BTW, I do think he's an ass.
Back in the day an offended woman would seek redress from her male relatives. Since both sides risked equally the "Code Duello" was developed so that unintentional slights and apologies were handled without bloodshed.
Now that an offended woman goes to the government, there is no equal risk, and unintentional slights are punished severely.
Of course there is always an appeal to the mob, quire popular in 1920 Alabama.
"You don't know Mrs. Tank."
Well, the hypo is that Ms. Sy is your wife. We see how Ms. Sy behaves in that situation. The question is, if you were HER husband, watching that, how would you feel?
But I'm interested in what Mrs. Tank would have done presented with that situation. I think most women would act like Ms. Sy, because it's really risky to get angry in public. Even a small flash of anger from a woman on a panel where a man has deniability would be perceived as crazy. Look how I'm being called crazy here for just describing Burch in a negative light.
I've had no trouble dealing with jerks of any rank.
Both sides come out ahead, in addition.
"Hold on there sweetie"
Ann Althouse said...
"You don't know Mrs. Tank."
Well, the hypo is that Ms. Sy is your wife. We see how Ms. Sy behaves in that situation. The question is, if you were HER husband, watching that, how would you feel?
But I'm interested in what Mrs. Tank would have done presented with that situation. I think most women would act like Ms. Sy, because it's really risky to get angry in public. Even a small flash of anger from a woman on a panel where a man has deniability would be perceived as crazy. Look how I'm being called crazy here for just describing Burch in a negative light.
This is what I mean. Mrs. Tank would have given him a look (assuming she did not take it as a joke, which she might, being a bit savage herself and having a reputation and all) and that would have been it. I mean it.
And she wouldn't be crying about it afterward.
I love Reds. It often takes a season or two before they properly fade to pink. Mine are all...
-- Trigger Warning --
shorts.
You're being called silly and unserious and ridiculous because you are investing the obnoxious comments of a douchebag billionaire with the gravity of an international incident, not because you're a woman criticizing a man. Egad, you are as self-pitying and melodramatic as a teenager.
I feel a little sorry for this guy.
When he got up in the morning the sun was shining, the sky was blue, he was prepared for a day as an inspiring success story, a generous philanthropist, trying his best to live up to the role model status that seems to have been conveyed upon him.
Suddenly it all went pear-shaped and he was nothing but a walking, talking poop swastika in red pants.
"I've had no trouble dealing with jerks of any rank. Both sides come out ahead, in addition."
Says the white man. Thanks for the white privilege update!
The Forbes richest "article" is beautiful: http://www.forbes.com/profile/christopher-burch/
And a Donk - donations to Biden et. al.
-XC
Rusty said...
"Chris Burch is kinda a asshole.
I bet he a democrat."
According to opensecrets.org, he donated $2500 to Mitt Romney's campaign in 2012.
Of course, this kind of talk would be just fine if they were in the "Jungle Room" of a Fantasy Hotel.
You know, lots of zebra and cheetah prints, faux bearskin rug, old-timey hunting gear on the walls.
"Oh, Savage Girl wants Big White Hunter? Does Savage Girl want to see Big White Hunter's 'elephant gun'?"
"Klik Klak, Bwana! Klik Klak!"
"Big White Hunter will take you like a Lion takes a Gazelle!"
"Neeky Neeky Neeky!"
"Neeky Neeky Neeky?" What is THAT?"
"I don't speak any African languages, Mr. Burch."
"I specifically asked my assistant to set me up with a Girl who spoke Jungle."
"Sorry. Maybe we can go to the 'Cowboy Room' instead?
"Do you speak Red Injun?"
"Ker Ponnay Kiki Kiki Koo, Kemo Sabe."
"I suppose that's good enough. I hope you like rope..."
I am Laslo.
Billionaire prick calls girl a savage, shut down the university!
Millionaire hip-hop prick calls girl a ho or a bitch, he's a genius poet!
Unimpressed with the pearl clutching.
Moderator Bob Kur '70 echoes the savage label.
The entire episode reeks of microaggression and is redolent of how my alpha white male successful and often condescendingly obnoxious father behaved in the sixties and seventies when he was Burch's age. Kur and Burch are so far behind the times IMHO.
Ann! Great job getting the Althouse Hillbillies rousted from your porch and running around the yard!
Run hillbillies, RUN!
Thomas Sowell calls this sort of thing "Scavenging for grievances"
"And the idea that he's just giving when he does a panel is absurd. He's used to winning and he performs his winning ways for the young."
I think I figured out what you're saying here: his being on the panel is for his own amusement. You're probably right, and that's his mistake. In the current environment sensible people in his position will withdraw, to the detriment of the schools. As Glenn Reynolds has asked lately, "In light of these campus scandals, will we see more, or less, human, financial, and reputational capital flowing to higher education in the future?"
Says the white man. Thanks for the white privilege update!
Since people don't want exactly the same things, there's always an opportunity for a mutually profitable trade.
White guys noticed that long ago.
I'm a woman who worked with mostly men for most of my life. Like Mrs. Tank, if there was a joke, and I was a part of it, but not the brunt of it, I would have laughed along with the joker. If I felt I was the target of the joke, I would have spoken up. Or glared. I have a really good glare. You can't really object to what is said to you by ESP. Nothing in her mannerisms indicates she's been put off by what was said.
I think what's bothering you is the word "savage". The definition of the word "savage" as an adjective is fierce, violent, and uncontrolled. As a noun it means a member of a tribe regarded as primitive and uncivilized. She used the word as an adjective, but he turned it into a noun. I don't think you're as bothered by the male/female interaction as you're instinctively giving his comments a racial connotation. Had the young woman been white, I don't think you'd have had quite as strong a reaction as you did.
i don't get your defense of the 'girl' - this is one thing that drives men crazy about women in the workplace. you got a problem? Speak up. quit being passive-aggressive and then jabbering afterwards about how you were "forced" to be nice or be quiet when you were actually upset. No one was 'forcing' you to do anything. You were just too gutless to speak up.
It's only one letter from savage to ravage. It's like racist and rapist.
These are sources of confusion in affirmative action crossword puzzles.
So, the guy is a dick. College students should be exposed to dicks, not shielded from them.
In a way I understand the problem Althouse faces here. She earns her living in the jaws of the beast. If she is too critical of her new master she could easily become a tasty, crunchy, crème filled target.
We need to have a conversation about rice. Too many carbs?
Virgil Hilts makes a good on-the-other-hand point at 11/13/15, 8:07 AM.
The problem may not be that he assigned her a lower and different class value with underlying ill will, but that he actually assigned her a fraternal value as a junior fellow alumnus/a with earnest good will. How does he generally interact with junior associates with whom the evidence shows he's taken upon himself to mentor, share his resources, and boost their careers?
I don't know him. Maybe he is a bad man getting his comeuppance. Or maybe empathy should also go to a good man who's being punished for generously availing and opening himself.
I'll turn around the hypo another way. What if he were outwardly a senior version of her but everything else about him (now a her) and their exchange was the same?
The USMC could use her. It takes a savage to kill some
enemies.
Apparently, there are no obnoxious boorish white males.
No, they're the personification/symbol of the white male patriarchical heteronormative oppressive society threatened by the emerging people of color movement (yeah, I need work on my lingo).
Sure, it was a difficult situation for the young woman to respond to.
If you want to see racism/sexism/____fill in the blank "ism" everywhere, you can find it. Sometimes it's there; but sometimes it's not and the students - and most disappointing Althouse - don't see to understand the difference.
Says the white man. Thanks for the white privilege update!
I have to say that this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen the professor say here.
I wonder if Althouse isn't getting a little freaked that she might get targeted on her own campus. She's certainly given the SJW's enough ammunition so maybe it's time to fall back in step with the other geese.
Meanwhile, out in the real world, we say whatever the fuck we want.
I think that whatever offense she might have taken was neatly balanced out by the strange tingling she began to feel in her nethers.
The dude is a clumsy alpha. There are smooth alphas, smart alphas, etc, and perhaps on other days this dude exhibits characteristics more in line with those archetypes. But he played the clumsy alpha, and I'd be willing to bet she began to feel a strange attraction towards him as things went on.
But hey, I'm just a white cis-gendered male-identified heternormative person of pallor. So WTF do I know, right?
Nah, ladies just don't like the fact that y'all have easily pushable buttons, and even when pressed a bit too hard they still generate these odd feelings. I could go into the science of it but won't. That would be mansplaining. Or is it manspreading?
My better half wouldn't put up with that either, unless she had a financial or other serious obligation to the man. Perhaps we should thank him for his honesty about what his life and job are like, and how he behaves. Some people might want that, some not (kind of like lawyers) by observing him as an example.
One problem is that this woman's obligation and interest lie in protest, seeming offended, ideology and lynch-mobbing those who are perceived enemies and do not agree with her basic premises and whether or not they are true (an army of ideological drones looking for a target). Their goals are often money and jobs, power and influence by exploiting incidents like these.
Pursuit of truth and reasoned debate can easily become victims.
That seems the greatest threat to liberty at the moment.
In choosing to look at this particular tree, please don't miss that forest.
Absolutely beyond me why this one incident of mildly offensive banter merits anyone's attention.
I have to say that this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen the professor say here.
She's playing you.
Maybe he is being Paternal, and wishes his entitled daughters had grown up to have Savage Hunger.
Just a thought.
I am Laslo.
Did someone say Savages?
All white, BTW.
There are assholes everywhere. Some of them are worth nothing. Others, 1 billion dollars.
My guess is that he treats just about everyone in a condescending manner. Politely though, and some people probably read such treatment as kindly or even fatherly. Here's the question: if he doesn't treat a young black woman in a condescending way is that special treatment more or less condescending? Henry Higgins told Liza that the question is not whether I treat you badly but whether I treat you worse than anyone else in my life......lI can see where his remarks could cause a slow burn, but what a wonderful life if that's the worst trauma you have to face.
This is just silly.
She acted like a girl, so she got treated like a girl. And you propose as a solution that people should come to her rescue? How abou, grow up and learn to assert yourself, and earn respect?
And I say this as a woman who is quite passive and can identify with the young woman's discomfort. But I recognize that I can either react in an appropriately assertive way, or I can default to passivity, but if I do the latter then I accept the consequences.
And your calls to men to think of how they'd want to defend their women is just bizarre. So it's not OK for the rich alpha male to act condescending, but it is still expected for men to be condescending if they're doing it to protect a woman? How are the jerky men ever going to learn to respect women if the women don't behave in a way that earns their respect (if they are instead expecting nice men to demand the respect from the jerky men on behalf of the women?)
Those daughters' nicknames are very WASPy, so it's nice to see Althouse share in the 'empathy' of a young betrodden girl of Afro-Cuban descent against mean ol' Mr. Mayflower Moneybags, the blueblooded, Patriarchal plunderer.
Kind of like the 60's all over again
Time reread Bonfire of the Vanities?
Maybe just an Auchincloss novel?
He probably thought he was brilliantly coining a term like "fierce", which is a synonym for the adjective form she used to describe her "savage hunger". Hey, the gays say fierce all the time as a compliment.
Except he picked-up on her use of savage and used it in the noun form to label her (ostensibly based on her "savage hunger").
And what he got was a "hot mess".
Ithaca Savage Incident?
I thought this post was about a shotgun shoot-off....
JSM
The woman is the same age as his eldest daughter, Pookie
Laslo is like quantum particles who can be in two places at once. First he shows up as the thoughtful, introspective political/social analyst, next he appears as his usual sexual obsessed quipster, and lastly his third apparition is as one somewhere on the spectrum between these extremes. Our man Laslo--a man for all seasons..
Ann Althouse said... He had 3 girls, with cutesy nicknames, Pookie, Izzie, and Weezie, and he left them, when the oldest was only 11 to form a new marriage with a fashion designer.
That's not up to your usual standards, Professor, and I think you know it.
Ann Althouse said...That is one lesson a person could take. The protesters are optimistic enough to think there are better lessons and that people like him can learn to be genuinely empathetic. They don't seem to be asking for much at all.
And here's where I can partially agree with you (and possibly with the Ithaca students). This guy acted like a bit of ass and he's communicating (through his speech, clothing, posture, etc) condescension in a smug way. He's also white and the immediate target of his condescension is nonwhite. If the lesson is "people need to be more empathetic to one another, more sensitive to differences in perspective, experience, and understanding between people of different backgrounds (race, gender) and that this is especially true for powerful people" then good, I agree!
If the lesson, though, is that this is just evidence of white people's racism, of men's sexism, and highlights the need for more social justice (which just happens to only be possible with the full implementation of Leftist agenda items 1-100) then I'm afraid you've lost me. This guy is, according to you, a billionaire! He's white, I'm white, but other than that I have nothing in common with him, so analogizing his status to mine (they're both white men, so they're both privileged) fails--concluding that I'm racist because this white billionaire behaved boorishly doesn't make much sense, and at any rate has almost no chance of actual persuading me.
Rich people shouldn't act like jerks. Men shouldn't act like jerks towards women. We should all put thought into whether we're acting like jerks to other people, and consider whether they might consider our actions as jerky even when we don't mean them to be. People in positions of power should strive to be empathetic towards people who aren't in power. People in power should make note of how they're perceived by people who aren't in power as well as by people from different backgrounds and circumstances. I agree!
White people are inherently racists and need to check their privilege and defer to nonwhite people when determining what actions are right. I disagree! White people are all powerful and all privileged. I strongly disagree! Look at frickin' Mizzou--the President of the University was a white man in a seemingly-powerful position, but he's out on his ass after the actions of some supposedly weak, downtrodden nonwhite people who keep saying they don't have a voice. Who is actually powerful? Your life can be ruined by accusations of racism or sexism, however unfounded--that's a hell of a lot of power to wield! This guy's a billionaire, he's powerful, yes. President Obama's a black man, but he's powerful. I'm a white guy, I'm not powerful. The Missouri student body president is a black man, he's pretty powerful (based on recent results, anyway). Equating race with power is an essential premise of the theory many of these protesters operate under, and it's false--so clearly false that their subsequent arguments are facially unconvincing.
Wasn't Weezie on a the Jeffersons?
Cultural appropriation!!!!11!!1
Once written, twice... said...
Ann! Great job getting the Althouse Hillbillies rousted from your porch and running around the yard!
Run hillbillies, RUN!
11/13/15, 8:57 AM
LMAO! Thank you for that image, Once- I'm still howling! Here, one good turn deserves another- This is for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGNEacVXRQg
Ann Althouse said...No, he can't pay his way out of everything."
Professor: I know we're talkging about different schools, but isn't that more-or-less what most of the protesters are agitating for, a payoff? Sure, it's in the form of more money for the programs they want, more counselors and administrators for their programs, more admissions spots for their favored group, and more of their favored group members to be given positions of power, but those are all forms of payoffs. And they're the payoffs they'll actually get--the schools will pay their way out of the problem (of being accused of systemic racism). This guy'll cut a check to the NAACP and NOW, give an apology (wherein he'll reference his charitable contributions and how much he loves his daughters) and he's out of it.
You seem happy to see him suffer, though, that's what you really want--this guy should be made an example of (pour encourager les autres and what not) and should be destroyed in some way. We can't get him fired, can't impoverish him, can't make him lose his position with the school...but we can make him squirm, attack his character, make sure he suffers and is as uncomfortable as possible.
Question: do you think that approach is more likely to inspire others to learn the lessons you want to teach, or less likely than a different approach that wasn't centered around making this particular guy uncomfortable (since he deserves it as a rich old white guy wearing ridiculous clothes, etc)? I mean, is the point to actually teach others and grow as a society, or just to give this guy a good beating now that we can? I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive, but there's definitely some tension there (witness your commenter's defensiveness in this very thread to your tactics/attitude). If you just want to "get" this guy, fine, have fun, but if you really want to use this as an example from which everyone should learn I'm not sure that's the best approach.
Eh, that's probably a bit too concern-trollish for you, but it's true anyway.
"Give us a voice!" they shouted into national news cameras as their University's administration scrambled to see how quickly they could accede to all their demands.
"We demand safe spaces now!" they yelled as their mob physically shoved people around and bullied others into leaving public areas designed to be open to all.
"We deserve more inclusion!" they hectored while calling for separate spaces, programs, and courses that focus on differences and division.
Why criticise his attire? He's probably visited Ithaca campus over the decade, he knows college students dress like refugees. He appropriately dressed down with his "Go To Hell" Nantucket's (probably from Murray's). If he showed up wearing a $6000 Purple Label Lauren suit, $400 Drake Tie, $1600 English make shoes, $400 shirt and SOCKS, the Professor would call him a white privileged alpha male.
For all we know he showed up with a tie and blazer, checkout the audience and said to himself, "Fuck! they're savages, I'm over dressed."
FYI, real men can wear pink, chicks dig it, real men know how to handle the situation. FYI-2, for decades Army officers wore pink pants till the end of WWII. Most don't know this because because of BW movies.
Western New York Episcopalian is a especially privileged set. Don't blame ordinary white men for this one guy.
"Says the white man. Thanks for the white privilege update."
Ann,
I assume this is an example of sarcasm. I would laugh, but there are idiots in academia who believe that white privilege and micro aggressions are real and important.
Having the privilege of being white meant that I had to achieve far better grades and GRE scores to be accepted to a good grad school than my African-American brothers and sisters. That is a burden to me and an insult to accomplished African Americans.
Oh, Bill R nailed it..
"Thomas Sowell calls this sort of thing "Scavenging for grievances"".
The info about his wives and children is provided for context,
After watching the video, I saw nothing worthy of a protest. Some people need to grow a thicker skin. She should have corrected him and moved on.
He came off as a snob.
The jab taken at him, his wives, and children, was also snobbish and petty.
1) The writeup points out that the moderator called the 2 white men "driven" but the black woman a "savage." That gets lost in the video, because the moderator does not have the presence of Mr. Burch.
2) The video caused Althouse to dislike the man--mostly because of how he carries himself, and treats the woman. The latter seems more applicable to sexism than racism, but if Barack Obama did the exact same things as Mr. Burch, I believe Althouse and the student protestors would be fine with it. So who are the racists here?
3) That is a highly-edited video, and the left has always said that they should be ignored.
Mac McConnell said... FYI-2, for decades Army officers wore pink pants till the end of WWII. Most don't know this because because of BW movies.
11/13/15, 10:54 AM
Wow, Mac, I was all ready to debunk that claim, but by gum, you are right! "Pinks and Greens"- although the actual color is referred to as rose or taupe in the sites I visited...That must have been Woodrow Wilson's doing!
I say enough on both sides. A rich man of privilege should know how to behave on a panel and there should be restraint in grievance mongering from others.
He's obviously just a splooge stooge, and deserves the attack.
Important.
The info about his wives and children is provided for context, as the question is how does this man relate to women. He had 3 girls, with cutesy nicknames, Pookie, Izzie, and Weezie, and he left them, when the oldest was only 11 to form a new marriage with a fashion designer. He evened the score, getting 3 boys, with Wife #2, and then he left them, when the oldest boys were 10.
Point of order....the persecutor is assuming facts not in evidence....
"Classic Alpha Male."
Yep.
And I think a lot of men don't like it.
Unfortunately, most women do.
"No, he can't pay his way out of everything."
He probably can. Unless he has a fight with someone of his type who is more powerful.
This is a Genghis Khan man. Many wives, many children, many descendants. He wins.
I am not sure what the point of complaining about the behavior of Christopher Burch. Is he supposed to suddenly realize that the way he has acted his whole life is problematic and undergo a complete personality change? Seems a tad unrealistic. If he dislikes rather than enjoys this sudden notoriety he might issue a nice non-apology:
I am sorry Ms. Sy was offended by my casual and jocular ways. I am even more sorry that such an accomplished woman imagines that trivial offenses like this need a public airing.
Ithaca College Students Stage Walkout, Call for president removal
For about 30 minutes, multiple students took turns interrogating the sign-holding student, asking repeatedly why he was there supporting Rochon and questioning his “privilege” as a white male. The student, who did not wish to be identified by name, but said he was a senior, explained he thought Rochon had performed well in his role, raising money for the college to open new facilities, increasing financial aid, and implementing the IC 20/20 plan to make the college more competitive.
“I don’t understand what changed overnight,” the student said, noting Rochon has been IC’s president since 2008.
The encircling students also said students of color feel unsafe on campus. Though when pushed on what exactly makes them feel unsafe or to point to specific incidents of crimes or physical harm on campus, they yielded no answers.
No answers.
I wonder if the Mizzou photographer got an invite to the White House or a shoutout from the President's Twitter account.
Nah, I don't actually wonder.
I wonder if the Mizzou photographer got an invite to the White House or a shoutout from the President's Twitter account.
Well he's much more likely to be audited by the IRS now, so there's that.
The NYTimes' photographs shows the protesters wearing shirts with a large icon of a fist, that's apparently their symbol. The implications of violence make me feel uncomfortable and seeing so many people grouped together all with that symbol of violence makes me fear for my safety to the degree that I experience emotional trauma.
How can the university permit this?
"He then reaches out and pats her on her bare arm."
And who dressed her so that her bare arms, shoulders, and quite a bit of her chest were visible? As usual, the woman wants to have it both ways. When I want you to respond to me sexually, I am deeply offended if you don't regard me as a sexual object. When I want you to respond to me intellectually, I am deeply offended by your awareness of my sexuality. See these tits I'm sticking in your face? What are you staring at? He was wearing red pants. Don't say! And what kind of pants was she wearing?
How is this guy supposed to respond to this person? If she was on the other side of a deal, he would rip her to shreds, and they both know it. Savage my ass, she's an obvious lightweight. He is not taking her seriously as an adult because the adults he plays with play rough.
Ann Althouse said...The info about his wives and children is provided for context, as the question is how does this man relate to women. He had 3 girls, with cutesy nicknames, Pookie, Izzie, and Weezie, and he left them, when the oldest was only 11 to form a new marriage with a fashion designer. He evened the score, getting 3 boys, with Wife #2, and then he left them, when the oldest boys were 10. And he takes the stage, in playclothes, talks about "empathy," and calls a woman who graduated from college 7 years ago "girl."
I'm noting that bringing up unrelated personal info, ridiculing the private behavior/harmless choices of individuals (like in what nicknames to use for their own children, for example), and making fun of someone's fashion or appearance is OK as long as it's for "context." No need to avoid getting personal and insulting when there's context to be had. I remember when people objected to those who doubted Clock Boy's story partially on the basis of the details of his family (his father's activism/beliefs, his sister's disciplinary history with the school) and were angrily told that the only legitimate issue for discussion was the overreaction by the school and police. If only someone had pressed the magic "context" button maybe it would have been ok.
Althouse: "I can see the reason for protesting ...." What is that, exactly? That they haven't anything better to do and that providing a venue for their collective disapproval of some guy's behavior is the purpose of the college?
"... The question is how does this man relate to women..." Who's asking? Surely not the College's financial supporters or the parents who are paying the freight for these "students."
"Women?" The professional women I worked with were not simpering twits who needed the support of a gaggle of other simpering twits in the face of real or imagined slights.
This is the face of "higher education" today. With luck and some resolve from sane people there will be consequences for these petulant assholes and their enablers among the faculty.
She brought the word into the "conversation."
What kind of asshole judges a man based on the color of his pants and the names of his children?
I think there is much projecting here on the part of lefties who think of blacks as savages.
Nothing he said or Implied was racist. Nothing he said or implied was dismissive of the young woman. He used her word as a compliment.
People have lost their fucking minds.
I can't get over the notion that Screaming Girl at Yale was just trying to teach Nicholas Christakis to be "genuinely empathetic."
Burch, by the way, is the former husband of Tory Burch the designer. She got her name from him, not the other way around.
I hope he never gives another red cent to IC. Let the parents of the aggrieved pay up. Oh, they don't have any money do they?
Now that I have watched this video, it is a lesson to me. That guy was me 10 years ago, before I got to learn so much more about younger people from The Professor. Althouse teaches good.
"That's a compliment!
pat. pat. pat."
And red pants too?
But answer Laslo's point. Have you seen him with men? Does he act like that with everyone?
In your imagination you already have! " I suspect that he uses that style to achieve his professional ends all the time."
Indeed. You think he projects this persona to men, but it's only a problem ..., well, when exactly?
He wears that shit because his wife was Tory Burch, the fashion designer of preppy and pseudo prep high end clothes and accessories. His wealth and power derive mostly from Tory Burch's talent and success. He grew up in the Main Line in Philly and probably went to Ithaca College because he was a screw-up in high school. He postures himself as a rags to riches success story rising from a modest middle class background. In fact his father owned a substantial and successful industrial business and he comes from wealth and privilege. He is well known as a complete asshole so this fits his M.O. Why would Ithaca college put such a jerk on stage at an event like this? Because the man is rich, of course. Their richest graduate, I suspect.
What are you whining about again? Congrats though Ann, David's pussy is more dry and cavernous even than yours. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Burch is not an alpha male. As in nature, Alphas concentrate their power on creatures that are an actual that. The non threats get ignored, or even protected. This guy is a bully and a showoff, posing as an alpha because now he is a billionaire because of his ex-wife. His own company, an obvious imitation of hers, went bankrupt. Hers still prospers.
I know a jerk when I see one, Nichevo.
David
Your facts are wrong. Chris Burch was rich before he married. And he financed the Tory Burch line and made himself and his ex wife a whole lot richer.
Burch got rich starting as an entrepreneur at Ithaca. He was not born rich, he was not from the Main Line.
She young and pretty. Her family was sufficiently affluent to send her to a private college, and she is sufficiently versed in pulling the levers to sit on the podium with the power brokers. Her life is not without privilege. She doesn't have as much privilege, however, as the average billionaire. This makes her underprivileged. But being underprivileged is a form entitlement. She therefore gets the best of both worlds. She dines on cake that has less calories than sour grapes...,......They say the minor nobility at Versailles lived in a perpetual state of grievance because they couldn't wear the same number of ribbons and bows as the major nobility. She's not a downtrodden peasant. She's a minor aristocrat asking for more perks.
It's a slight exaggeration to say that I see nothing wrong with any of his actions, possibly he should not have touched her, but I certainly see nothing that rises to the foaming at the mouth rabid rage that Althouse is sending out in waves.
If that's all it takes for a man to eat a woman's lunch, a little friendly-overenthusiasm?-women will all be slim and beautiful forever.
As for you, David, you seem chiefly animated by a desire to gouge Mr. Burch's eyes out and skull-fuck him. Who knows this much about people? How long has this guy been living rent-free in your head?
Matt said...
Rusty said...
"Chris Burch is kinda a asshole.
I bet he a democrat."
According to opensecrets.org, he donated $2500 to Mitt Romney's campaign in 2012.
Doesn't make him any less an asshole.
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