But after 27 years of frustration, the Dodgers will accept reckless, embrace dangerous, and so on Saturday night they uncomfortably celebrated a slide that won a game, altered a series and may have saved a season.Writes Bill Plaschke, at the L.A. Times, presumably through blue-colored glasses.
ADDED: There's bad logic embedded in the phrase: "recklessly dangerous, so much that it broke another man's leg." A leg is not a calibrator of reckless dangerousness. A more dangerous, reckless slide might have hit a leg in a different way and not broken the leg, and a less reckless, dangerous slide might have hit in a precisely unlucky way that snaps the leg.
AND: "Blue-colored glasses? Both teams are blue," said Meade, aptly. (Too bad there's not more variety in team colors. I had a hell of a time trying to watch the Nebraska-Wisconsin game yesterday, both teams in red and white. After the game was over, and Meade switched to the Cubs game, the screen filled with a player's dark blue shirt, bathing my eyeballs with cooling relief.)
ALSO: I put up with Meade playing lots of sports on the television, and he puts up with me making an inordinate number of comments about what I like to call the "costumes."
Posts
68 comments:
from Wikipedia: "Both Utley and his wife Jennifer are avid animal lovers, having raised over $45,000 for the Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals."
Fine. Now how about giving a few bucks to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Shortstops?
Stealing bases is wrong.
It isn't stealing if they all are belong to us.
The writer's poor logic aside, that was a dangerous play, should be illegal, and should result in the player being fined and suspended. ( I'm not saying that is the way the rules are now, just what the rules should be. )
That was 100% take-out, 0% attempt to get to the base.
Maybe the point is that Utley doesn't deserve to be the focus of the blame. He did what he was trained to do in that situation. But now that a leg has been broken in a way that dramatically alters the playoffs, we need a new rule going forward.
Also: do the Mets get to retaliate?
I've called them "costumes" for years! To tease the men I love just a little.
Reckless means w/o concern about the consequences of one's actions. The fact that one can cause serious harm without being reckless does not mean the slide was not reckless.
I am not a fan of either team. That was a dirty slide because he wasn't sliding into the bag. we don't need a rules change--we need the umps to follow the rules, which in last night's case would have meant both the runner and the hitter would be out. Just a horrible no-call by that umpire.
"Also: do the Mets get to retaliate?"
If there's a bang-bang play at second base, noone will be shocked if the Mets runner goes into the fielder rather than the bag, and while I hate to see it, I do understand it.
But anyone arguing Harvey ought to throw at Utley tomorrow night is just being ridiculous. Not the least of which reasons being, every out is precious in the playoffs. You're really gonna just give the Dodgers a baserunner just to make a point? Eyes on the Prize and all that.
AA
You can't even imagine the despair and angst afflicted by the Badgers onto the Huskers.
Check out www.omaha.com or Husker message board for a taste.
Our Memorial Stadium was silent after that winning FG.
The Mets need to hold back on their starting pitcher for the first inning. Open up with an expendable reliever who is there only for one reason: to hit Utley with a pitch.
Expendable pitcher then gets the obvious ejection.
Now bring in the real starting pitcher.
I should be a manager.
I am Laslo.
Bill Plaschke is, it needs to be said, one of the most overwrought sportswriters in America, and if he sees through glasses of any color, they're purple.
Wisconsin and Nebraska play for a "Freedom Trophy". They should instead play for the "Red Trophy" with the winner being free to wear red and the loser having to wear another color of the winner's choosing for the next year. Go Big Pink Nebraska!
"harrogate said...
But anyone arguing Harvey ought to throw at Utley tomorrow night is just being ridiculous. Not the least of which reasons being, every out is precious in the playoffs. You're really gonna just give the Dodgers a baserunner just to make a point? Eyes on the Prize and all that."
Sure if it's late in the game and you're down a bunch. Or two outs and nobody on. There will be an opportunity in the series. If I was Utley I wouldn't be leaning over the plate for that pitch on the outside corner. Because they next one be in his ear hole.
No, my favorite Utley moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWNIbgICA4
Left Bank:
Better than playing for the Hy-Vee trophy as is the case with Iowa.
"Sure if it's late in the game and you're down a bunch. Or two outs and nobody on. There will be an opportunity in the series."
I suppose that's true, although I do truly hate the archaic practice of people throwing baseballs at each other on purpose. It's "tradition"? Sure, but it's a dumb one. In baseball it used to also be traditional for players to go brawling with drunken fans. I'd rather just see the Mets clobber LA on the field but karma rarely works the way one would like, and LA will probably win the rest of the games this series. To wit: Utley is now the Matthew Dellavedova of these baseball playoffs.
The slide was not late, nor was it dirty. Tejada made the wrong move at second - he pivoted right on the bag rather than slide across - and put himself right in the way of the slide. The take out slide is as old as baseball. It is a legitimate baseball play. Ty Cobb was always accused of sliding into second with "high spikes". I am sure that got the pivot man thinking too.
We need "take out slide control" and we need it now! Take out slides should be subject to universal background checks!
To Harrogate: The umps made no call because Utley was in the base path as was Tejada; Utley was easily able to swipe the bag with his hand as he made the slide. Tejada made an unlucky play and paid the price.
"Utley was easily able to swipe the bag with his hand as he made the slide."
Wait, what? Are you watching a different replay? He makes no effort whatsoever to gain the bag. I mean, look where he actually is at the end of the play. How is that "in the base path"? I'm gonna watch it a few more times and I will come back and acknowledge being wrong if I see him touch the bag or stay in the basepath. But I doubt the video clip is going to change from the last several viewings.
Big Utley fan here.
What Khesan0802 said at 9:34AM
And the SS was in an awkward position with his back to the play. That helped to cause his freak injury. If it was not a NY team that lost, the play would be forgotten already. It is a shame the SS got injured but it is fun to hear Mets fan whine and whine.
Dodger Blue. There is no confusion.
I'm a Dodger fan-- let's just get that out of the way. I think the way things should have panned out is that the 2nd base ump's call should have stood. It was a bad call, but if there were no replay that's what would have been the reality. The way that play works is that Utley breaks up the double play and pays for it by getting out. Face it, there would have been very little controversy about this if Tejada hadn't got hurt, an outcome that was at least partly his fault. As for what occurred after the play, Utley certainly never touched the bag, but he was called out and left the field before he could recover.
The play, and the call, unfolded in the time-honored tradition of all-out baseball. Every veteran player I saw interviewed agreed that it was Utley's job to break up the double play, and he did his job. If you want to emasculate sports even further, keep whining about Tejada and his fragile fibula.
Millions of people who have never played baseball in their lives are outraged at the slide!!!
Seriously... that's part of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIiYw53nGd0
Now HERE'S a late slide! :-)
ALL YOUR SECOND BASE ARE BELONG TO US
Home plate collisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl6ry-nGp_U
Fielders in the base paths know the deal.
I'm with harrogate. There was no attempt to make the bag (the hand swipe missed). Tejada was well away from the natural line of a runner and justifiably had no expectation of being hit by Utley. FFS, it wasn't even a "slide", it looks much more like a red-card soccer tackle.
Hell, it's generous to call it a "hand swipe" at all. I honestly don't see him making even a token effort for second base. He's about as close to center field grass as he is to the bag at the end of the play
Re the centerfield grass quip: I exaggerate , but only slightly. He's certainly way off the bag at the end of the play tho.
Blue-colored glasses? Both teams are blue," said Meade, aptly. (Too bad there's not more variety in team colors.[)]
In this case, that was intentional. The New York Mets were created in 1962 as a replacement for the the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants, both of which had left for California for the 1958 season. The Mets embraced the legacy of both former New York teams, selecting Dodger blue and Giant Orange as their colors.
I put up with Meade playing lots of sports on the television, and he puts up with me making an inordinate number of comments about what I like to call the "costumes."
Bill James, a famous baseball analyst, had his wife write the articles on baseball uniforms for his Historical Baseball Abstract book. You are not unique in this.
I'm a baseball fan. I like to see the rules enforced. The take-out slide is part of the game when it conforms to the restrictions of the rules. The rules, I believe, require that the slider be ' within arms length ' of the bag...whose arm is not defined. It becomes a judgement call rather than a rules call.
When reviewing the video it is obvious that Utley's outstretched hand never came within a foot of the bag and the slide did not conform if the slider's arm is the unit of measure. Whose arm did the umps use? I wonder...
As to the slide, hard slides to break up double plays are nothing new and are an accepted part of the game. The problem, as I see it, is the expectation is the runner is making some effort to actually reach the base safely in case the fielder missed the base or dropped the ball. This gives the fielder a chance to protect himself. Utley was within arm's length of second base; if he had not been he would have been called for interference, he would be out, the batter would be out, and the inning would be over. However, (a) Utley did not touch the base and really made no effort to do so (though that was partially because he slid his head into Tejada's knee), and (b) he slid so late that at the end of the slide he was several feet past the base such that he could have been easily tagged out, assuming he had not injured the fielder. That's not an effort to get to the base.
What Utley did was arguably legal but it was dirty. The double play breakup slide should be legal, but that late slide garbage needs to be banned. Didi Gregorius did something similar in the AL Wild Card Game, which fortunately did not injure anyone.
The chutzpah of the Dodgers to challenge the play and the umpires to overturn the out after that nonsense is what really hammers home the absurdity. It is hard to understand how to give Utley second when he didn't touch it until he was retrieved from the dugout after the call was overturned. It apparently didn't register with the umpires that while Utley made no effort for the base because he was called out, Tejada made no effort to tag him for the same reason (that and a broken leg).
When Alverez came onboard at Wisconsin, he had the uniforms redesigned to look like Nebraska's, his alma mater. About the only difference is the helmets.
Greg Nettles in 1977: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUNUlg8zY-E
Playing against Hal McRae's team!
Tsuyushi Nikiyoka and Nick Swisher, 2011: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v13555283/minnyy-nishioka-injured-on-swishers-takeout-slide
Twins fans didn't pee their panties.
Incidentally, Utley hit a home run in a game against Mets pitcher Matt Harvey earlier this year. Harvey nailed Utley in the back with a 95 mph fastball in his very next at bat.
Shit happens, kid. Welcome to the Big Leagues.
Mrs. E
Barry borrowed plenty from Nebraska and I believe he has said so. He was in Lincoln earlier this season for a team reunion.
Instead of a killer fast ball to the noggin, toss a mid speed, easily avoidable pitch towards his cheek. Then catcher delivers message. " Real one coming later"
Trying to reconcile the outrage by some here at the slide while simultaneously calling for violent retaliation against Utley. Two wrongs make a right?
If Tejada hadn't broken his leg, this wouldn't even have been a post on this blog.
In other news, millions of pussies are shocked and appalled to discover baseball is a contact sport.
Good old fashioned hardball. Buck up, buttercups.
"Our Memorial Stadium was silent after that winning FG."
But right up until that last instant, you had the joy of knowing you'd won, and we believed we'd lost. You had that. I remember the pain.
A whole lot of people here don't understand the rules or the game itself.
The slide was legal. His hand was within reach of the base (This is professional baseball). Khersan was correct. Tejada's protection was on the back side of the base. Utley's hand got the base. So he was safe.
Replay exists. The Dodgers took advantage, they would have been morons not to appeal.
And Anne, they can't retaliate, they'll be warned at the plate meeting, but they'll do it anyway. Cause that's what these guys do.
I don't know a lot, but I'm a 30 year baseball umpire, and I'm pretty fucking good, so I do know this.
Shoot. No retaliation needed. Just play baseball!
That's its own retaliation. The ump is right... The play was legal. Hell, I've seen way later slides than that.
This happens hundreds of times every year in major league play and thousands of times at lower levels. Once every few years, someone gets hit at the wrong angle and we have an injury like this. In Major League Baseball.
This isn't even the first time Utley knocked down that particular infielder to break up a double play. Found another vid where he took him out good.
Nobody batted an eye.
This is baseball, not bean bag.
Update: Utley suspended for two games.
Yes, the slide that was legal enough to not even be ruled interference on the field somehow became illegal enough to warrant a two game suspension.
The ruling was issued by Joe Torre, a former Met and former Dodger manager, now the Discipline Czar for the National League. Utley appealing.
Yeah, I'm not getting those people who say Utley touched the bag. I've watched the video multiple times. He didn't touch the bag until after the instant reply reversal and was summoned back from the dugout. I'm not sure he could have touched the bag as his slide was so late that he essentially flew over the base. It was one step below outright drop kicking Tejada, which would probably would have led to less serious injuries and increased his chances of landing on the bag.
This is not your standard double play breakup slide into second base. That Nick Swisher video Jason posted is not comparable: Nick's slide was not late, he actually was on the base at the end of the slide, and the reason the second baseman was hurt is he put his leg between Swisher and the base which was a stupid thing to do. The runner has a right to the base; you block the base at your own peril. There's a reason you see second basemen jump throw to first on such plays for that very reason.
Tejada was not blocking the base nor really near it at the time of the collision, and Utley was not trying to reach the base. That's dirty. Maybe that was the norm at sometime. I'm sure Ty Cobb did something like that on a regular basis. Maybe that was the deal in the 1970s, as I heard claimed. Today you rarely see anything like that. If we are going back to that sort of hard slide then fine, but if so make it plain so the middle infielders know what to expect.
As to Nettles, good player but he could be a jerk.
No, that play is absolutely fair game.
People are letting themselves become biased by the outcome. There are hundreds on instances of fielders getting knocked down by base runners on the far side of the bag.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y6BTFkTbCo
This is how you break up a double play when the fielder is your own brother.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25306431/pirates-lose-jung-ho-kang-to-knee-injury-five-things-to-know
The slide that shattered Kang's knee.
Nobody was pissing their pants over that one, either. Though Kang was a good 3 or 4 feet off the bag when he was hit.
People shouldn't project their own naïveté or wussiness on pro-level baseball. That's the kind of thinking that causes people to climb into polar bear pens at zoos.
No, that play is absolutely fair game.
Obviously not, given the suspension.
The Giles slide is not comparable. That's a normal takeout slide.
The Coughlin slide was not late and he clearly reached the bag. Not comparable. It has been discussed that Kang is still learning how to play in the United States after playing most of his career in Korea. It was not wise to plant his leg like that on a possible takeout slide. Most shortstops know better. Should that type of slide be banned? I'm open to it but it is not in the same ballpark as Utley's.
The only one I have seen that looked like Utley's slide was Gregorious in the Wild Card Game. I thought that was dirty and I'm a Yankees fan.
This was a normal takeout slide, too.
We have a 30-year umpire on this very board saying the same thing.
What's the matter? You never saw an organization run by weakies throw someone under the bus to appease a baying mob before?
You know what the problem is? Fair weather fans who never watch baseball in their lives during the regular season tuning in when two big market teams are in the playoffs, and then hitting the fainting couches.
Show me the rule on this "late slide" thing you think exists.
Here's how Joe Morgan broke up double plays. Yeehaw!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Dp-DxfAlc
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2015/official_baseball_rules.pdf
Here's the rules. It's searchable, to make it easy. Go ahead and show me this "late slide" rule. Or, for that matter, a rule that says a runner on a force play has to slide at all! While we're at it, show me where an umpire's on-the-field judgement that interference did NOT occur on a given play is subject to review by Joe Torre or anyone else after the game.
The rules were changed a couple of years ago for collisions at home plate (look up the "Posey Rule"). But MLB pointedly never extended those restrictions to other bases.
Jason-
I'm no baseball expert, but how does 6.01(a)(6) not apply?
( I'm not calling it a late slide, or overrideable after the game. Just saying that an obvious take-out sounds illegal. Is there something somewhere else in the rules that makes it legal? )
Jason, this is obviously not the same as the typical takeout slide. I have been a baseball fan for a long time. I have spent time several years with various amateur teams on various skill levels including future major league talent. I have seen some really weird stuff. This slide was not typical, and not because it caused an injury. The fact that you keep providing more examples of takeout slides that are clearly not similar to this one and then insist it is the same thing is just baffling to me. The fact that you question my baseball bonafides without knowing anything about me is rude.
You want a rule? Here's Rule 5.09(a)(13):
[A batter is out when] A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment,
intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to
catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to
complete any play;
and the associated comment to explain said rule:
Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The
objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate,
unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in
leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the
pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base.
Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.
This was not difficult, especially given Joe Torre quoted it as part of the suspension.
The only way Utley could possibly have gained possession of second base on that slide was to physically bounce off Tejada. If Tejada was not there, he would have been several body lengths away and perhaps on the outfield grass. It's as dirty as they come.
Do I think Utley was trying to hurt Tejada? No. Doesn't make it any less dirty.
For added amusement, Jerry Hairston, Jr. has come to Utley's defense. Only problem is Hairston was the victim of a similar slide and called for the runner to be suspended. He works for the Dodgers now as an announcer, which may explain a whole lot.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/35964798/
Rule 6.01(a)(6) reads:
If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner
It does not apply because the fielder was not in the act of fielding a batted ball.
Rule 5.09(a)(13):
In the umpire's judgement.
That's kind of a biggie. Did the umpire call interference? No.
Is Joe Torre the umpire?
No.
Is anybody sitting at MLB headquarters the umpire?
No.
in
leaving the baseline
Utley did not leave the baseline. He was within easy hand reach of the base when the collision occurred. Indeed, his hand was directly above the base. If he never touched it, his hand was at most a couple of inches above it.
Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.
Indeed. And not subject to review.
Cutting down further... Does Joe Torre even think Utley left the base path? No. Even he's on record saying Utley was "within easy reach" of the bag when the collision occurred. So how could there be any question of interference on the play? The whole rationale falls apart.
This is just MLB reacting to the reaction, rather than to the play itself.
If MLB wants to make a change, they should do it in the offseason.
We have Posey rule, that limits home plate collisions. That came about after a promising Giants catcher got his leg injured when someone ploughed into him a few years ago and knocked him over (no, he didn't have the ball at the time).
But MLB looked at it, and made the rule change. AFTER the game, and I believe, after the season was over.
Know what they didn't do?
Suspend the guy who injured Posey.
We don't pass ex post facto laws and then punish people for things that were legal at the time they occurred for a reason. But the people screaming for Utley's head are trying to do just that.
Mets will win it. Utley's head won't matter.
Maybe, maybe not.
Process, however, still matters.
Or maybe you were fine with the baying hyenas deciding your Madison privileges were revoked.
Hey, it was no skin off my back. And some of the things you were doing at the time were unpopular, so hey, why not throw the mob a sacrificial lamb to keep them appeased, eh?
Suppose Joe Torre signed a restraining order keeping you two out of city limits for two months.
MEADEHOUSE: "By what rule or authority are you doing this?"
TORRE: [shrug] "We feel it warranted discipline."
MEADEHOUSE: "But we didn't do anything illegal!"
TORRE: [shrug] Madison will be fine. Your head doesn't matter.
Hey, I get it. It's been clear since Memories Pizza. It's all about preferred outcomes.
"Maybe, maybe not. "
We agree.
Jason, that is the rule. You wanted the rule. You got the rule. Apparently, Torre thinks the umpires are wrong. Umpires have been known to be wrong at times. Your challenge is met.
I understand that you do not accept Torre's judgment in the matter. Not only do I agree with Torre, I would also agree if he had passed the same sentence on Gregorius or Goldschmidt, and I look forward to the rule being clarified as to make this explicitly illegal as to avoid such folly in the future. There's a big difference between the normal takeout slide and what was witnessed here.
I think your opinion that Utley was near the bag is deeply flawed and I recommend you reconsider. First, when we discuss interference calls, the player's arm must be within reach of the base. Normally, this is a matter of being too far to the left or the right. In this case, he arguably was too high. From the angles I have seen, I'm not sure if he could have touched the base from his position if he really wanted. (He clearly had no intention of touching the base.) Second, at the end of his slide Utley clearly could not reach the bag, then he stood up rolling in the direction of the base at which point he might have been able to touch the bag if he stretched out. For that matter, the only reason he was that close is he collided with Tejada's knee, knocking his helmet clear off his head and slowing his momentum. If you are going to argue that intentionally causing a collision with another player entitles him to benefit from the impact, then we must reconsider if this was not mere interference but actual assault of the Ty Cobb/John McGraw variety.
Even Torre concedes that Utley was near the bag.
And the rule states that it is the umpires' judgment whether to call interference. Nobody else's. Torre is not the umpire and he's on record saying he doesn't have a problem with their calls. Stop trying to invent rules that don't exist and read the rules that are actually in effect.
Here'sTorre:
"he was, I agree, he was within range of the bag, yeah. It wasn't like the fielder was over here, and he went right at him and couldn't reach the bag."
I think that much is obvious watching the replay. His hand was just a couple of inches over the top of the bag, within easy reach, at the moment of impact with Tejeda. There have been hundreds of plays much further away from 2nd base without anyone batting an eye. All season long, season in, season out.
Jason, that is the rule. You wanted the rule. You got the rule.
"... In the umpire's judgement."
Again, who's the umpire? Do you think Joe Torre is the umpire?
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