I love Iowa. And, look, I don't have to say it, I'm Presbyterian. Can you believe it? Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. Boy, that's down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist, I don't know about. I just don't know about.Religious prejudice is wrong... we all, most of us, know that, don't we? Or do we? We know it some or most of the time, except when we need to set it aside, such as when we choose a President, and it's got to be somebody we can trust with the nuclear button and everything else. It can't be a weirdo. We'll leave you alone as you pursue you metaphysical whimsy and even treat you with care and kindness. But for a President? Trump knows what the "folks" need: right down the middle of the road.
"I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian." 4 times he had to say it. Because "Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian."
Nobody believes.
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Trump reminds me of democrats. He's slimy.
The Presbyterian Church is a decidedly liberal church, well-esconced on the left with the Episcopalians, Methodists and Lutherans. Of course, for most of his life Trump has been a sort-of Democrat, so liberalism would look like middle of the road to him.
Ben Carson does have some wacky beliefs, though.
Not sure it's part of his religion, but not sure running two candidates in a row from non-standard Christian sects is a winning strategy.
Well if he's Presbyterian, I'm Satan. Oh wait...
Isn't it odd how R's are placed under a microscope and dissected for every what-ever doesn't matter belief. Meanwhile democrats are full-on corrupt and they are celebrated as sensible and normal. F Off
I'm waiting to see how Trump triggers the religious prejudice against Rubio.
"As a child in Miami, [Rubio] was a Roman Catholic. When his family moved to Las Vegas, he became a Mormon. When the family moved back to Florida he became a Catholic again. And then, in 2000, he began attending Christ Fellowship in Miami, a fundamentalist mega church that is rigidly opposed to homosexuality and asks employees to sign a declaration saying they've never been in a gay relationship. Now he attends both Christ Fellowship and a Catholic church, he says."
Rubio's religion is Chameleon.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Not all Seventh-Day Adventists are tenors.
Most are peace loving brain surgeons and shit like that.
Fight Seventh-Day-Adventophobia!
Hillbillies, who now dominate the Republican electorate, obsess over the religion of others. Trump gets that.
Republican belief in God is always good for endless speculation, examination, ridicule, and various opinions on how that effects their politics and leadership.
Dems on the other hand espouse a multitude of examples of openly defying the constitution and nothing.
I'm pretty sure the anti-Trump meme-o-the-day is supposed to be "Trump dissed Reagan"- which is totes going to open the eyes of his supporters and make them vote Rubio - not "Trump dissed Carson's religion".
Discipline, people, discipline.
Religious prejudice is wrong... we all, most of us, know that, don't we?
A person's choice of religion is an example of their decision-making, possibly the most important decision they will ever make. ( And if they are just following what they were raised in, it still shows how they make decisions that may or may not align with their upbringing & biases. )
How well they live what they claim to believe shows a lot about their character.
Both are highly relevant in deciding who should be president.
I'm an Atheist. If someone wants to discriminate against me on that basis, that is their right. ( The government, on the other hand, may not. )
It's like traffic staggering the rush hour from Sunday morning to Saturday morning.
They are good people other than a wild hair insisting the Sunday guys are stupid heretics. Only they judge themselves righteous based on keeping Sabbath The Right Way.
I grew up Presbyterian; it isn't hard. Remember the hymn: "They can tell we're Christian by our love"? From what I know of his life, Carson qualifies. In Trump's case . . . well, none of us knows another's heart.
With rightists, you can generally believe them when they say what their religions are. Santorum, Carson, Huckabee, Romney.
With leftists, you can generally assume they're lying. Pelosi, Hillary, Obama, Reid.
Religious prejudice is wrong...
Judgment != pre-judgment.
Well coded, Fernandinande.
"Religious prejudice is wrong" from a woman who mocks all religion every chance she gets. I guess if you are sanctimonious regarding all religions then you are not prejudiced. You hate them all.
I don't know much about the SDA except they do a lot of outreach, use Saturday as the Sabbath, tend to be vegetarians and Conscientious Objectors, dress and act conservatively, and build lots of hospitals. Little drinking, drugs, sex or rock/roll.
Compared to the church of our current POTUS (rev Wright's), the SDA look so very white bread American in the old time sense of Protestantism...
Religious prejudice is wrong
Except that Carson said he would not want a Muslim president.
Ben Carson is now on a book tour.
"Except that Carson said he would not want a Muslim president."
Did it occur to you to ask why ?
He said so.
The oldest problem in Christianity is still around. do Christians have to be Jews first?
Paul fought them to a draw so we can be free from that insanity. Paul commanded his guys, "Do not let any man judge you in respect of a Sabbbath." Trump is raising the same issue Paul raised over and over in his Epistles. It's back.
"Religious prejudice is wrong... we all, most of us, know that, don't we? Or do we? We know it some or most of the time, except when we need to set it aside, such as when we choose a President, and it's got to be somebody we can trust"
I realize you may be mock-channeling Trumpian stream of consciousness, but still: faux questioning, right?
All depends on what the meaning of "we" is. Prog resistance to prejudice is situational: traditional opposition to SSM is obviously atavistic, opposition to 20-year attendance at anti-Amerikkkan church is racist.
The enlightened "we" must use religious conviction to weed out crazies who believe in God and Scripture to oppose abortion and such. Can't trust those people. On the other hand, "we" can spot useful phonies who will spout some religious mumbo-jumbo to get elected by the plebs, but will evolve quickly enough. Those liars we can trust.
"Religious prejudice is wrong" is one of those misleading slogans that pops up when AA wants to hold an opponent up to their own rules (Alinsky Rule No. 4)
Two truisms:
1. The left is prejudiced against religion, as a general matter. (See anything written by Richard Dawkins)
2. The entire religion of Islam is prejudiced against Christianity, Judaism and all other infidels (See, the Koran; see 15 centuries of war-making, fighting)
I thought Rubio went to two churches b/c his wife is a different religion, so he goes to his church and then church with the family?
That's actually pretty normal in mixed marriages.
"Nobody believes"
Except some people do believe Hillary!'s take on DOMA and DADT is "well defended."
If Trump has never asked God for forgiveness -- for ANYthing, as he boasts -- can he even be considered a Christian? Isn't forgiveness on sins the central tenet of Christianity itself?
Being a member of a purportedly Christian congregation isn't the same thing.
"I don't know"
Wow, what a vicious attack on Carson by Trump !
And course, Trump is correct, Presbyterians are "mainstream" and Carson's Church isn't. I suppose Trump also said something about Immigration, Taxes, the Economy, and ISIS.
But why should the MSM discuss that?
GO get him Trump! Carson is a liar and big pharma is right there with him! That Carson would mandate everyone into vaccine stupor! HIs vaccine beliefs fly in the face of his 7th Day Adventist religion! He's a liar. SHINE the light on his vaccine issues, X position with Vaccinogen, and BIG Pharma's push to get him in!!
Trump won't attack Carson's religion because no one knows or cares anything about the 7 Day Adventists. Its not like the Mormon's - who are big and powerful enough to have a few prejudiced idiots hate them.
I notice the MSM meme with trump is to take any comment - no matter how mild and ambiguous - and then claim its an extreme attack on someone or some C-r-a-z-y statement about some topic.
The WaPo and NYT have six reporters trying to uncover the great deleted Trump Tweet scandal of 2015. Who deleted the tweet and when did they do it?
Religious prejudice is not wrong, considering what passes for religion in this country. And it would be a difficult decision to pick what I think is the worst.
Was Trump abused as a child? He's a petty guy, obessed with the tiny details of people's lives, appearances and demeanors. Always on the lookout to exploit the potential weaknesses of others. Once he is criticized, however, he wails. Carson exposes Trump as a fearful loudmouth, hiding behind incessant chatter. Neither will be the nominee.
...how Trump triggers the religious prejudice against Rubio.
Like any executive, he will delegate.
Ann, after you have licked your mingled juices from his cock and taken your $20 from the dresser, you will croon, Anything else, honey, and Trump will say, Yeah cunt, run out and trigger the religious prejudice against Rubio for me,
Whereupon you will say Yay! and try to kiss him, he will say, Back off bitch, you smell like ass, and you will say, Yes master! and you will run out and post some more hate, not even stopping to insert a tampon. Meade can follow the trail of alpha semen to find you if he needs pocket money.
...Or am I wrong? Maybe you took the money first.
Atheists get a free pass in denouncing any and all religions, since none of them waste time in the rush to denounce atheism and to infringe atheists' civil rights through anthems, prayers, pledges, oaths, flags, coins, bills, monuments and moments of silence.
"That Carson would mandate everyone into vaccine stupor! "
Well, we know what your religion is. Thanks.
Nichevo said...
Ann, after you have licked your mingled juices from his cock and taken your $20 from the dresser, you will croon, Anything else, honey, and Trump will say, Yeah cunt, run out and trigger the religious prejudice against Rubio for me,
Whereupon you will say Yay! and try to kiss him, he will say, Back off bitch, you smell like ass, and you will say, Yes master! and you will run out and post some more hate, not even stopping to insert a tampon. Meade can follow the trail of alpha semen to find you if he needs pocket money.
You might want to take an aspirin for that fever.
Religion helped beat Romney.......
Not tough to see why Trump is losing to Carson.
I remembered today why I like Trump so much.
Right now, under this Obama Administration, we have reached banana republic status. Lois Lerner and Hillary Clinton and others getting away with abuse of power. This won't stop unless Republicans do it too. This won't stop unless both Democrats and Republicans want it to stop.
I believe Trump will weild the government and its bureaucracy just as Obama has. The only way to get Althouse to notice will be to get the Democrats in the media to notice. And when Althouse finally starts to notice and have a problem with it, I'm going to point out over and over again how she didn't have any issues with it under Obama. Nor did Garage, or Inga, or any of the rest.
Then maybe, just maybe, we can all start to agree it needs to stop.
But not until they get a taste of their own medicine. Good and hard.
A remarkable number of surgeons are 7DAs. It's also very popular with the Korean/Vietmanese-American upper-middle-class. Probably some overlap there.
This may be my best opportunity for a non-offensive religion joke. It has nothing to do with the topic.
What do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian Universalist?
Wait for it ...
Someone who goes around town ringing doorbells for no apparent reason!
I am not Laslo.
"I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian." 4 times he had to say it. Because "Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian."
Well, count me as one of the nobodies who doesn't believe it. He, the same as our current president, worships exclusively at the church of self.
Looks like Trump is going down in the flames of evangelical hell.
Nah, it's only wrong to make fun of the religious faith of Democratic politicians.
Republicans have always been fair game if they even so much as say, "Bless you" when someone sneezes.
Nuclear button? Do you seriously think Trump looks like someone who would be quick to blow up the country? I don't think so. Neither do you.
The idea that Trump could worship something bigger than himself?
Inconceivable!
(And yes, I keep using that word, and it means exactly what I think it does.)
Pond slime.
If anything, you could make the argument that believing that the world is fallen and there is a paradise waiting after its demise makes hitting the button more attractive.
But Iowa always puts elevated emphasis on religion.
I had thought that the people who run the Presbyterian church in New York where Trump claims to be a member had little knowledge of him ever attending.
Does anyone doubt for even a moment, that Trump was taken to a Presbyterian Church by his parents in the. 50's and 60's, when it was simply the thing to do? And that Trump hasn't been to church on two consecutive Sundays in more than 30 years?
I guess no one's told Trump that the U.S. Presbyterian Church is anti-Israel, and that they've even divested in companies like Caterpillar that do business in Israel. And also that many Evangelical churches have denounced the move.
There is a passage in The Right Stuff where Tom Wolfe references the "awesome voltage" of Presbyterianism. If Donald Trump feels comfortable in the Presbyterian Church, that "voltage" must be long gone. That energy had something to do with the teachings of John Calvin, which were decidedly not "middle of the road," and which are decidedly absent from current Presbyterianism (at least as practiced by the PCUSA, the dominant strain in this country). If one wants a doctrine that would be recognizable to Calvin, there is still the PCA, just as if one wants a doctrine that would be recognizable to Luther, there is the LCMS.
I don't know from Protestants. Was Norman Vincent Peale Presbyterian? Trump definitely seems like a power of positive thinking kind of guy.
Carson's problem is that he wants to benefit from the smallest cult truther version of Christianity possible to prove something to someone in Iowa.
By why does he need to prove anything religious??? The Presbys are proven by centuries of courage and endurance of the Huguenots under Catholic persecutions. Calvin was a French Lawyer, and the best writer of the Reformation.
The Scottish Reformation also did its part and arriving In the Colonies founded Princeton university under Pres. Witherspoon ( Reese's ancestor) and became the Presbyterian Mother Ship in America. Will Durant was a good example of The Presbyterian intellectual ethos And of course FDR was raised a Presbyterian like Trump.
There have been any number of leaders who embrace religion for cynical, political reasons. And likewise there have been a great many leaders who were sincere and devout in their religious practices. History, unfortunately, does not show with any amount of predictability whether cynicism or faith leads to success........Disraeli converted from non practicing Judaism to non practicing Anglicism. Not a leap, but a stutter step of faith. He was remarkably cynical and witty about most matters, including religion. Gladstone was sincere and earnest in his faith, as he was in most things, even his perversions.....I would ask anyone to define how Disraeli's cynicism or Gladstone's faith made them the superior leader.......I would give Gladstone a slight edge in his decisions, but I don't think his wisdom was due to his religious faith.
When a politician identifies his religion, there should always be a follow-up question to test how religious they are. The follow-up question for "I'm Catholic" should be "really? Say the Hail Mary." My guess for the follow-up question for "I'm a Presbyterian" should be "what does TULIP mean?"
So, Mr Trump, if you're a Presbyterian, what does TULIP mean?
Why is religious prejudice wrong? Don't people vote for politicians who share their beliefs, including religious beliefs? Don't we have the right to do that?
As far as I know as a Catholic - my religion was pretty much under the sword when a corrupt king couldn't get the Pope to give him a divorce - Henry VIII's Oath of Supremacy which killed Thomas Moore and terrorized English folks way into Shakespeare's times with priests hiding in secret compartments from the Privy Council under the Fascist Queen Elizabeth - all when the Catholic activist Shakespeare was writing his magnificent Anti_Fascist works 1580-1612 - after which came plague, religious bloodbaths in Europe over various Protestant sects and for or against Catholics, Cromwell and massive religious refugee immigration to the American colonies. Catholics had to be smuggled into early America colonization from England as we were the first banned immigration group recorded -
Puritans were Protestants who hated Papists - and our nation is exceptional (in my opinion this is what American Exceptionalism means) because our Constitutional Writers and Representatives who were mostly Protestants so wisely provided Freedom of Religion (not Freedom From Religion) as we went for Independence and enacted the Bill of Rights.
When JFK ran and won as a Catholic - it was huge news because of his religion. Sadly we know that election may have been more "machine politics" than a true vote. Frankly - I'm not sure we've had a true vote since then but that's my tin foil hat talking.
I really agree with what Ann says about Rubio's religion "Rubio's religion is Chameleon" but I want to extend it to ALL politicians in USA today. They are MOSTLY all chameleons on this issue - Carter , Bush 43 and Romney were different - openly active in their faiths - Carter lost a second term, Bush was maligned by media for it and many think Romney lost because of his Mormon faith.
We are NOT taught to reject religious prejudice any more than we are NOT taught to reject our family's favorite baseball team or our family's favorite political party. In fact - we get these values from how we grow up - early on. Our sports teams. Our faith, Our politics.
In my opinion, a college education is all about examining those default settings and forming new ones or reinforcing the one's we inherit from childhoo. For both the educated and the ones who don't get a college experience - religious prejudice has never been a more volatile level than ever these days. For obvious reasons - the US is engaged in a holy war against radical Islam because of THEIR choosing - not ours. College freshmen today have NEVER know our country to not be at war against Radical Islam in Afghanistan or Iraq (or Syria, Libya). Yet how often do we talk to them about religious issues? They are actually ignorant about the caused of the wars they have grown up with - and it's our fault because we smugly say to ourselves "we are all taught religious difference or prejudice should not matter"
After 9/11 - this we all know. It's not been our US effort but theirs to kill all of us in a New York minute if they could.
As a Catholic - I think any kind of skirmish between Protestant denominations is a foolish argument that mostly atheists and snobbish Protestant sects talk about now. As a Catholic - which actually means UNIVERSAL - all Christian faiths are united as well as the Jews who just need more proof.
As an American I think the only concern we should all have about religious zealotry or devotion is radical Islam.
Finally - I think the folks who make the biggest sink about various Protestant denominations are not at all speaking for their group - atheist activists, PR agents, campaign managers? Much more likely.
I totally buy that Trump is religious. Totally and 100% completely.
Define religious prejudice.
Do keep in mind that one chooses a religion (or no religion at all) on the basis that one thinks this religion is correct. By extension this means that all other religions are wrong. These is nothing innately prejudicial with disagreeing or even disliking a religion that is not one's own.
It is prejudicial to hate someone for their religion. It is prejudicial to to disparage a religion for reasons that are false or one has no reason to actually believe are true. It is prejudicial to make an analysis of another religion without obtaining the requisite knowledge to do so. And, of course, it is prejudicial to strip a person of his or her rights, job, life, etc. because of religion.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not voting for someone because one does not like the candidate. If that reason is religion, so be it.
I was a Presbyterian for 30 years, and only heard about the TULIP idea in a men's discussion group, and on line. It was never preached. I am now a member of a Methodist church, but I still feel like a Presbyterian. These Arminians are just too lackadaisical. The guys don't wear ties and the women don't wear heels.
"As a Catholic - I think any kind of skirmish between Protestant denominations is a foolish argument"
The Orthodox think the same thing about Roman Catholics and Protestants.
Blogger Mark said...
Ben Carson does have some wacky beliefs, though.
Which beliefs do you think wacky?
John Henry
traditionalguy said...
It's like traffic staggering the rush hour from Sunday morning to Saturday morning.
They are good people other than a wild hair insisting the Sunday guys are stupid heretics. Only they judge themselves righteous based on keeping Sabbath The Right Way.
You should read your Bible more. Most anyone familiar with the Bible from any Christian perspective will point out that Jesus didn't change the Sabbath from the last day of the week to the first.
Sunday is the first day of the week and, in the Bible, called "The Lord's Day". Many Christians worship on Sunday to celebrate the new beginning in Christ.
Others, like SDAs but not only SDAs, worship on the last day of the week: Saturday. This is in keeping with the day of rest that God commands us to observe in the OT.
Semantically:
Sabbath in Spanish is Sabado. So is the word for Saturday.
As for judging ourselves more righteous for keeping the Sabbath rather than the Lord's Day, that has not been my experience. We (SDAs) do defend our interpretation but don't deny other people theirs. One of the attractive things I find about the SDA faith is not, generally, criticizing other faiths for their Christian beliefs. We are all God's children.
John Henry
Do keep in mind that one chooses a religion (or no religion at all) on the basis that one thinks this religion is correct. By extension this means that all other religions are wrong.
Spoken like a true progressive Democrat.
There can be no differences of opinion. Anyone who disagrees with us is not just wrong, they are evil sinners and must be cast out into the darkness. Witness what is going on with the warmists wanting to RICO, defund, fire and even murder those who disagree with them. Not all warmists, of course, but enough.
John Henry
@John Henry: Um, no. You are about as off target with your analysis of my statement as is humanly possible, both as to the meaning of my comment and my political and religious beliefs. If you had declared I was an evil banana that wanted to rid the world of cheese that would only be slightly more wrong.
Differences in opinion necessarily mean that one person thinks another person is wrong. Why this would be considered a bad thing, I have no idea. Essentially everyone thinks everyone else is wrong about something. The intolerance you describe is certainly how some people handle these differences, but it is not something I embrace except in the most extreme of situations (and, no, nothing you mention qualifies as extreme).
How many groups are left for the GOP to alienate this year? We're really running out if it's down to the 7th Day Adventists.
Now, if one of the leading candidates takes a shot at half-breed Cherokees, my BINGO card will be full.
The advantage of electing more Jews and Seventh Day Adventists to gummint is that they would favor doing away with our Baptist Sunday Blue Laws that still prohibit the sale of booze on Sundays. Can you believe that Baptist Helen, GA until recently prohibited Sunday sales of beer during their Oktoberfest? You can now buy booze on Sunday in Colorado, but it may not be worth the drive.
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