Althouse: Trump asks "Who is [Ben Carson] to question my faith?" — "I’m a believer, big league, in God. I will hit back on that."

September 10, 2015

Trump asks "Who is [Ben Carson] to question my faith?" — "I’m a believer, big league, in God. I will hit back on that."

And he does hit back — here, talking to Chris Cuomo — and questions Ben Carson's faith.

Cuomo takes it on faith that religion is a "cornerstone" of Ben Carson's "existence," but Trump points out, quite correctly, that we don't know that.

Why is it the norm to accept that people sincerely hold the religious beliefs they assert? I like that Trump is challenging that where it really should be challenged: When someone (like Carson) is using religion to leverage a bid for political power. Why does Cuomo accept assertions of religion from Carson when Carson doesn't accept it for Trump and where Trump isn't forefronting religion as a reason why we should want Trump to have power?

Cuomo bolsters his belief in Carson with: "He's a 7th Day Adventist, I mean, it's something he talks about a lot." That's quite silly. What does affiliation with a particular sect prove about the depth or substance of one's faith? And what does talking about it a lot prove?

Trump refers to Carson's quoting the Bible about humility the other day "And it looked like he had just memorized it about 2 minutes before the quote." That's a pretty accurate observation! Check it out:

The quoted verse is: "By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life."

Hey, I'm glad I looked that up, because I kept reading Proverbs 22 and found: "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

78 comments:

MayBee said...: If I remember the playbook from the 2008 election, every Democratic candidate should now be asked to affirm Ben Carson's faith. And if they don't, it's racist.; 9/10/15, 10:11 AM
Kansas City said...: Funny comment by MayBee.

I don't understand Ann's agreement with Trump that Carson looked like he just memorized the quote two minutes earlier. What is in the video that conveys that? It is such a speculative and totally subjective assessment that I am surprised Ann agreed with it.

Part of the Trump rise is that he says stuff that is totally his subjective opinion, without significant fact support, and the media takes it serious. He is an interesting and sometimes engaging blowhard, but aside from polls, there is no reason to treat his pronouncements with anything other than amusement and the assessment they are not fact supported.; 9/10/15, 10:17 AM
MikeR said...: "The way [Donald Trump] believes in himself is very refreshing in these atheistic days when so many people believe in no God at all."; 9/10/15, 10:18 AM
cubanbob said...: Jules: "You read the Bible, Brett?"
Brett: "Yes!"
Jules: "Well, there's this passage I've got memorized that sort of fits this occasion. Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of the evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and goodwill, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper, and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!"

I can totally see Trump reprising the role. Tarantino call your office.; 9/10/15, 10:24 AM
Rae said...: Of these three - Trump, Carson or Obama - who went to church last Sunday?

Our post constitutional, post Christianity country is in a very weird state regarding religion. Don't question someone's religion, but don't let it influence your public policy positions either. Unless you're a black democrat or a Muslim, then do what you want.; 9/10/15, 10:30 AM
Louis said...: Carson cannot take seriously the proverb he cites. He is bragging about being humble.; 9/10/15, 10:30 AM
YoungHegelian said...: What with all this Bible-talk, maybe finally, we're going to have an election with some proper "smiting". 'Cause, Lord knows, the Republic could use some of these folks getting smitten, either by the righteous arm of Jehovah, or by the righteous arm of Trump, which in this spiritually impoverished age probably counts as the next best thing.; 9/10/15, 10:34 AM
Jaq said...: Democrats are going to need to get another black candidate who was not raised in the black community if they want one who is not to some degree sincerely religious. Carson's faith does not bother me. I know enough black people that I don't question him on that matter. I know it's stereotyping...

I like his answer on global warming too, that it is "irrelevant."; 9/10/15, 10:37 AM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: So its fine to be religious, as long as you don't actually talk about it? Cause, you know, that's icky.; 9/10/15, 10:39 AM
Mark said...: I love press conferences where people claim to have humility.

I think the word they really were looking for was hubris.; 9/10/15, 10:45 AM
lgv said...: All Trump is claiming is that he is a "big league" deist. He believes in God.

The whole "faith" issue is always a bit dicey. The Clintons went to church a few times during the presidency, but I doubt they really measure up to any level of true faith. I think it is some sort of check mark, faith, God.

I recall the parade of Republican candidates offering professions of their faith before Christian conservative groups back in 1980. Bush the elder was not invited (too liberal). John Connelly and Philip Crane played the born again Christian card. Reagan talked about believing in God in a very cursory and general way. Everyone voted for Reagan. Now, I look back and wonder what would have happened if Reagan had said he was an agnostic.

I think the best play is just say you believe in God and Jesus and move on. You will get a pass and you don't even have to go to church. So, Trump played it well.; 9/10/15, 10:45 AM
Unknown said...: "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

How can anyone disagree with that? Stay away from strange women. The normal ones are hard enough to figure out.; 9/10/15, 10:45 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: Advantage Trump.

There are serious issues to confront -- illegal immigration, Iran nuclear deal, 94 Million Americans out of the work force.

Nobody is interested in the religious faith of Trump or Carson.; 9/10/15, 10:51 AM
PB said...: trump is entertaining and people probably support him now because they don't really have to vote for him yet. he'll continue to be a useful foil to say outrageous things, some honest and some rather stupid, but in the long run he'll flame out. BUT he'll have turned up the volume and facilitated a clear view of what most people think of immigration, the iran deal and the failures of the Obama administration.; 9/10/15, 10:51 AM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: I'm starting to think that Trump is deliberately trying to tank his own popularity so that he can exit the race gracefully. He says these outrageous things thinking it will sink him in the polls, but he keeps going up, up, up.

Can't wait to see his 3rd wife divorce him after catching him having sex in the Oval Office and demanding half the country in the settlement.; 9/10/15, 10:57 AM
ganderson said...: Most everything Andrew Cuomo says is silly.; 9/10/15, 11:01 AM
William said...: Trump is, in his way, a kind of lay saint. It all depends on how you define getting laid. I think Huckabee, Carson, and Walker believe in God and that that belief influences their life decisions. I don't think the others are necessarily cynical--or not--but religious faith is not a guiding force in their life........;Without getting into the pros and cons of Fiorina's business decisions, she definitely succeeded in making a ton of money for herself. By a Trump's own metrics, she's a success.; 9/10/15, 11:03 AM
MikeDC said...: LOL... this is the first clip I've heard that kind of makes me like Trump. He's (at least in this instance) completely unwilling to buy into the bullshit everyone is shoveled.; 9/10/15, 11:08 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Of these three - Trump, Carson or Obama - who went to church last Sunday?"

I don't know, but what percentage of people who went to church last Sunday truly believe in Christianity and follow the teachings of Jesus?; 9/10/15, 11:13 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Carson cannot take seriously the proverb he cites. He is bragging about being humble."

I know. We were laughing about that at Meadhouse.; 9/10/15, 11:13 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "So its fine to be religious, as long as you don't actually talk about it? Cause, you know, that's icky."

Well, I'm more likely to think in terms of the things Jesus said about those who make a big public display about religion. If the relevant verses from the Gospels don't spring immediately to mind for you, let me know, and I'll put them here.; 9/10/15, 11:16 AM
Gabriel said...: @Ann: If the relevant verses from the Gospels don't spring immediately to mind for you, let me know, and I'll put them here.

You mean the verse about not hiding one's light under a bushel, or the "I say to you they have their reward verse"?

Jesus said a lot of things. Anybody can selectively quote scripture.; 9/10/15, 11:21 AM
Gabriel said...: @Ann:From the Sermon on the Mount:

Did you mean this one?

You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Or did you mean this one?

Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Now using these verses, said by Jesus to the same audience on the same occasion, go ahead and tell us what Ben Carson or Donald Trump or any other Christian in public life SHOULD been doing to be good Christians in public.; 9/10/15, 11:30 AM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Ben Carson could no more disown his widely-declared religious faith than candidate Obama could his pastor, or, no, shit, hang on.

"I'm a bigger believer" fights are stupid, and anyway even if one "wins" and gets to the general the Media will immediately use that as evidence against you if you're an R: "you say you're a super Christian, but the doctrine of your faith says XYZ about women or minorities (or whatever) and that's racist/sexist/bigoted/backward--so now defend yourself from those charges and guilt-by-association." And no, of course a D like Obama doesn't have to do the same thing, his kooky racist pastor is just following in the Black Liberation Theology tradition, so hand wave hand wave hand wave no problem--and you're racist for even bringing it up.

If the Republican base was looking for someone who can effectively attack other Repub. candidates then it sure sounds like Trump is their man. If he wanted to it'd be pretty easy to tie those attacks in to attacks on the Dems/Hilary ("Carson's attacking me on faith just like this Admin has attacked people of faith through their policies) but weirdly he doesn't seem interested in that.; 9/10/15, 11:34 AM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Trump won't turn the other cheek on that one!; 9/10/15, 11:38 AM
holdfast said...: I think even Trump would agree that Trump is not afflicted with Humility.; 9/10/15, 11:40 AM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: "If anyone is ashamed of me and my message, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he returns in his glory and in the glory of the Father and the holy angels."

"
After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go."

"16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Christianity is a proselytizing religion. Talking about it is one of its requirements.; 9/10/15, 11:41 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: We don't know if Trump is religious, but we know he's not a Christian, don't we? He said that he'd never repented. The requirement of repentance for sins is non-negotiable for any version of Christianity I've ever heard of.; 9/10/15, 11:50 AM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: And from Acts (of the Apostles)

"Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went. 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Messiah there"

"Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” 27So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. 29The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”

30Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

31“How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him."

"They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus."; 9/10/15, 11:56 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."

That's not saying you should talk about how religious you are. The reference is to "good works," not talk.; 9/10/15, 11:57 AM
Nichevo said...: You should talk! It's almost like you preaching the rule of law.; 9/10/15, 12:08 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: Professor AA has some interesting insights on the of topic Jesus/religion/Christianity, but out of curiosity, I wonder if she believes and abides in that stuff or is simply pulling the Alinksy-like tactic of "holding the opposition to their own standards?"(or something else).; 9/10/15, 12:23 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "We don't know if Trump is religious, but we know he's not a Christian, don't we? He said that he'd never repented. The requirement of repentance for sins is non-negotiable for any version of Christianity I've ever heard of."

I'd say we don't know.

1. "Christian" is a large category. How is it defined? Who defines it? In U.S. constitutional law at least, it is left to the individual to define what religion is for him, and an individual choosing to call what he believes Christian is one way to resolve the question.

2. Trump hasn't been proactive presenting himself as religious, I don't think. He's responded to things other people said. The question about whether he's asked for forgiveness for anything was a gotcha question, demanding that he say something he's done that he knows is wrong. Maybe it was a sin or a mistake to say he hasn't asked, but the statement is only some evidence of whether he believes he's sinned or has needed or asked for forgiveness.; 9/10/15, 12:25 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: "That's not saying you should talk about how religious you are. The reference is to "good works," not talk."

True, Jesus was against religious displays meant to elevate your status but not grounded in love and mercy. Shocking, I know.

Yet there he was, walking up and down Israel and Samaria for three years, talking about "God" and "Faith" and "Mustard Seeds." And hanging with sinners and tax collectors.

Discussing your faith is not synonymous with "talk[ing] about how religious you are."; 9/10/15, 12:25 PM
Ficta said...: "Of these three - Trump, Carson or Obama - who went to church last Sunday?"

Well, Carson would have gone to church on Saturday, so there's that.; 9/10/15, 12:30 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "True, Jesus was against religious displays meant to elevate your status but not grounded in love and mercy. Shocking, I know."

And Carson is running for President and using religion acquire power.; 9/10/15, 12:30 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: "1. "Christian" is a large category. How is it defined? Who defines it?"

Uh, Christ?

"14After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”"; 9/10/15, 12:30 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Jesus notably avoided seeking worldly power.; 9/10/15, 12:31 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: "And Carson is running for President and using religion acquire power."

He is running for President and is presenting his beliefs to the electorate so that they can make an informed decision regarding his fitness.

Kind of makes a difference how an issue is framed.; 9/10/15, 12:33 PM
mtrobertslaw said...: Hillary is a charter member of the class of "strange women". Be forewarned all you male supporters of this woman.; 9/10/15, 12:37 PM
Known Unknown said...: "And Carson is running for President and using religion acquire power."

I'm not sure that's what he's doing, really.; 9/10/15, 12:39 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: "Jesus notably avoided seeking worldly power."

And he advised his followers to be "as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

Are Christians obligated to retire from the public sphere then? Stick to their churches and abjure voting as contrary to the precepts of their religion.; 9/10/15, 12:44 PM
sinz52 said...: Trump is poking fun at yet another standard ritual in politics: Wrapping yourself in religion to win votes.

It always reminds me of a scene in the 1960 movie "Spartacus":

Roman Senator Gracchus (Charles Laughton) publicly announces that he's going to make a sacrifice to the gods to pray for the Roman troops' victory. Someone might have been young Caesar) says to him:

Caesar: "I didn't know you believed in the gods."

Gracchus: "Privately, I believe in none of them. Neither do you. Publicly, I believe in them all."; 9/10/15, 12:45 PM
Fernandinande said...: Gabriel said...
Anybody can selectively quote scripture.

“‘This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood.’”

So Eskimos are unclean and the Food Nazi says "no rare marbled steaks for you!"; 9/10/15, 12:47 PM
Kansas City said...: Surprised Ann is hostile to Carson. He seems like a nice man and seems well intended.; 9/10/15, 12:48 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Surprised Ann is hostile to Carson. He seems like a nice man and seems well intended."

I'm not generally hostile to him, but the attack on Trump over religion seems off to me. Also preening about humility!; 9/10/15, 12:50 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: "This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood."

"About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

"22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell."; 9/10/15, 12:56 PM
Louis said...: Are Christians obligated to retire from the public sphere then? Stick to their churches and abjure voting as contrary to the precepts of their religion.

I mean, why not?

Jesus asked the good rich man to abandon his possessions and walk with Him immediately.; 9/10/15, 1:54 PM
Gabriel said...: @Ann:That's not saying you should talk about how religious you are.

Neither does the other verse say you SHOULDN'T talk about it. The other verse, in fact, says NOT to let other people see your good works.

So my challenge remains--using these two verses delivered by Jesus to the same audience on the same occasion, tell Christians in public life what they should or should not do. You can't parse your way out of it, not unless you have some expertise in Aramaic or Greek of which I'm unaware.

Jesus notably avoided seeking worldly power.

Would have been a demotion for him... but pretty much no Christians these days, in North America, are getting crucified. Since they are not following Jesus's example they must be bad Christians then.

They're also not keeping kosher, riding donkeys into Jerusalem, turning water into wine, or remaining celibate.

Christianity does not require anyone to live like Jesus and never has. You're just playing "gotcha".

As a scientist I get annoyed by people who are not scientists, and don't know anything about being a scientist, telling scientists that they are doing science wrong. I imagine you don't give much credence to non-academics telling you how academics are doing academia wrong when they have little notion of what actually goes on there; I know I don't think much of those criticisms. And consequently Christians are going to be annoyed when you tell them they are doing Christianity wrong when you obviously don't know.

Not only is it annoying, it makes them less likely to take your criticism seriously because it is not well-informed. It makes the people you wish to influence less likely to be influenced by you. Why do it then?; 9/10/15, 2:34 PM
Brando said...: If there was a real "tell it like it is" candidate, I'd hope they'd come out and say "who the hell cares what my religion is? I can only promise that as president I'll protect your First Amendment religious rights. If you don't know what those are I'd suggest do some reading before my next press conference."

I care what Ben Carson or Donald Trump think of their own faith about as much as I care what their favorite football teams are.; 9/10/15, 2:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Criticizing a person's spiritual values (or lack thereof) is a loser in politics, as it is in business and/or personal life. In the first place, another person's actual spiritual beliefs are unknowable. In the second place, we are not meant to judge. The good Dr. Carson has lost ground with me; sanctimony is a bad place to go.; 9/10/15, 3:13 PM
Kansas City said...: Ann said:

"I'm not generally hostile to him, but the attack on Trump over religion seems off to me. Also preening about humility!"

It was interesting to me that Ann characterized the statement as an "attack on Trump over religion." I even went back to watch the video again.

The assessment of the words of people, particularly politicians, is so subjective, but it did not come across to me as an attack. The substance seemed to be that Trump is not humble, and there is no dispute about that - Trump even concedes he is a bragger. I thought Carson specifically said he had not heard what Trump said about religion when he got the follow up question about whether he thought was insincere in his statements about religion. So I saw the substance as "I'm humble and attribute my success to God" and Trump "is not humble and does not attribute his success to God." Putting to one side whether Carson should "preen" (Ann's word) about being humble, the rest of the comments seemed pretty accurate with respect to both Carson and Trump. Maybe it could be viewed as "an attack over religion," but I saw it more as Trump is a bragger and I'm not. I also have sympathy for modest missteps by persons who need to answer questions in front of microphones all day.

I don't think either Trump or Carson is well suited by experience and, in Trump's case, by character to be president. If I had to take a chance on one, it would be Carson.; 9/10/15, 3:28 PM
Kansas City said...: My preference is for an outside Washington person with both the right philosophy and good executive experience, which presumably would be Fiorina, Walker, Kassich and maybe Christie. Maybe Bush, but he really has not been coming across well - in part, because Trump labeled him "low energy." Maybe Perry, but he has quit, right?

Maybe the two Indiana governors who are not running. How about Romney? It would have been a good year for him to run, maybe.; 9/10/15, 3:34 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Did you question Obama's claiming to be a regular church-goer, who somehow was not aware of Rev Wright's frequently preached-on views?; 9/10/15, 4:07 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Did you question Obama's claiming to be a regular church-goer, who somehow was not aware of Rev Wright's frequently preached-on views?; 9/10/15, 4:10 PM
Kansas City said...: I agree religion is best left out of politics.

The media protection of Obama on Reverend Wright was extraordinary. He obviously was there for those sermons and you could tell looking at him he was lying when he sort of denied it. But media protected him and the GOP was afraid.

By the way, if Hillary's huge 2008 campaign operation had been remotely competent, they would have found those videos before Iowa and Hillary would have been elected president. World and U.S. would be different places, probably better. I think they were selling the videos in the lobby of the church.; 9/10/15, 4:18 PM
jimbino said...: As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion" (Prov. 11:22).; 9/10/15, 4:22 PM
traditionalguy said...: Thoughts on Reformed Calvinists and their Evangelical religion faith life in relation to politics:

1) they ARE the original separation of Church and State guys.

2) they don't want a Pontifex Maximus ruler...that is the Pope's job.

3) They do want respect for the free exercise of Religion and do like a man who respects the value of Faith in Jesus.

4) in the USA freed from Kings and ruler only state church, the toleration mandates work best. Some believers have a wild hair up their ass, like the super proud only right worshipping on Sarurday crowd that Carson practices. But so what. We tolerate all that proclaim the basic Nicene Creed statement of FACTS. The better culture in our land comes from a wild hair group calling themselves the Quakers. They are really good folks.
5) the Presbyterians are saved by faith that is stronger than average because the repent more totally as men and women in total depravity that still got chosen by God in Christ's will to make them adopted children. They cannot start there and later doubt the faith because the do wrong later. It 's still as effective as it was when they believed because it was God's choice and not their will that made the deal.

Ergo : Trump is a strong believer, but he has no need to out do others to show that he is a child of God by out religiousing them.; 9/10/15, 4:32 PM
traditionalguy said...: BTW,the British Army reports back to London during the 8 year War of American Independence was that the Army was not fighting a rebellion by English/Anglican colonists at all. It was almost entirely a Presbyterian rebellion by the colonists who elected their on church leaders with no Royal hierarchy involved. They simply would never surrender.

Trump's religious tradition is all American.; 9/10/15, 4:49 PM
Francisco D said...: I was convinced that Trump was never running for POTUS, but for publicity. Then, I had a few drinks with a woman who worked with him several times, on charity events. She likes him, although she is a liberal (a hot one!). She thinks he is very bright, well intentioned, but blatantly sexist. I thought her views were pretty balanced, for a liberal. If her bedroom performance is as good ...

Her take is that Trump has absolutely NO DESIRE to become POTUS, His goal is to shape the debates by bringing up issues that "nice" Republicans are afraid of, mostly because of their fear of the media. I was very impressed by her reasoning, among other things.

I am not Laslo.; 9/10/15, 7:07 PM
Drago said...: Althouse: "Well, I'm more likely to think in terms of the things Jesus said about those who make a big public display about religion."

I know! Can you believe the nerve of those Christians in the arena praying in public before the lions ate them? I don't think they were true believers. At. All.; 9/10/15, 7:21 PM
Drago said...: I'll bet it was all so off-putting to those reasonable "free thinkers" in the coliseum.; 9/10/15, 7:22 PM
Jaq said...: Her take is that Trump has absolutely NO DESIRE to become POTUS, His goal is to shape the debates by bringing up issues that "nice" Republicans are afraid of, mostly because of their fear of the media.

Rush knows him well too, and said something similar several years ago. I don't listen to Rush anymore now that there are other sources of non liberal news, so I have no idea of his current take.; 9/10/15, 9:06 PM
Jaq said...: Trump as the leader of a PUA seminar for Republicans, to get them over their fear of the media, to put the media in its place and to speak with confidence. That's a funny take.; 9/10/15, 9:08 PM
rcocean said...: Wow, I haven't seen anything of Carson before. Man, that clip is awful. Trump is right he's VERY low energy. And what a dumb statement, you're asked how you differ from Trump and instead of saying he supports policy X and I support policy Y you call him a heathen compared to you and then brag about how humble you are - while running for President!

He seems like a nice man, no doubt he's a sincere man who has some good political beliefs but based on that clip Jeb and the Establishment attack machine will chew him up and spit him out if he becomes the front-runner and a real threat.; 9/10/15, 10:14 PM
rcocean said...: I see no reason to believe that Trump isn't sincere in saying he wants to be POTUS. I do think that if it looks like he won't win the nomination, he'll bail-out quickly and endorse someone else. He knows all about sunk costs.; 9/10/15, 10:17 PM
Phil 314 said...: Why do they let him call in. Tell him, "if you want to rebut, do it on camera."; 9/10/15, 10:18 PM
Phil 314 said...: PS don't be a Trump chump.; 9/10/15, 10:20 PM
Phil 314 said...: "Christian" is a large category. How is it defined? Who defines it?

Professor,
Will all do respect; read the Bible.; 9/10/15, 10:22 PM
Saint Croix said...: Very good article here explaining why so many evangelicals are thinking of voting for Trump.; 9/11/15, 3:38 AM
Saint Croix said...: Trump hasn't been proactive presenting himself as religious, I don't think.

Here is Trump, claiming the Bible is his favorite book.

But Trump can't or won't quote any passages from his favorite book.

Think about this for a second. If you have a favorite movie, can you quote lines from it? Very likely you can. And the Bible has a lot of great lines that are highly memorable. I'll bet there are many atheists who can quote a Bible verse without trying very hard.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Instead Trump said...

"The Bible means a lot to me, but I don't want to get into specifics."

This might seem like a good answer to an atheist or somebody who thinks that the Bible should have no bearing on politics. But it's not a good answer when somebody has already been bragging about how the Bible is his favorite book.

Trump has already admitted that he only goes to church on Easter and Christmas. (And also other "special occasions" which I would guess is a wedding celebration).

It's the definition of "lightweight religion," I think. I can speak to this because I was like this for the vast majority of my life. I was a believer. I believed in the virgin birth, the resurrection, all the miracles. But I never read the Bible and I never prayed, and I only went to church when I visited my family.

The Bible is a hard book to read, by the way. It's a very long book. There are huge chunks of the Bible I still have not read. And to understand the Bible you really need to study it with other people and do a deep dive into a particular passage. I don't think it's something you can do on your own, actually. That's why we have churches and Bible study, and why there's always this Christian suspicion of people who say they are reading the Bible on their own and doing all this independent study.

Professor Althouse, how would you respond to a student who never went to class, who claimed to be doing all this independent study, and yet when you ask a few simple questions he can't tell you anything about his so-called favorite book?; 9/11/15, 4:32 AM
Saint Croix said...: I'm more likely to think in terms of the things Jesus said about those who make a big public display about religion.

One of Jesus' favorite words is "hypocrite!" He says that word a lot.

Almost all of Jesus' conflicts in the Bible are with religious people. What he says is a challenge to religious people to take your religion seriously, to follow the teachings.

Look, Jesus once referred to Peter (the first Pope) as Satan! Matthew 16: 21-23. This was right after Jesus said that Peter is the rock, the foundation of the Christian church. Matthew 16: 18.

One way to read this is that Satan can work his deceptions through organized religion, and keep people from God. This is a great book that touches on that subject.

For instance, almost all of Jesus' arguments are with very religious people, or with people who deem themselves very religious. He is constantly attacking orthodox Jews, saying they are too rule-bound and are keeping people from God.

Of course this causes a lot of stress on religious people! You think you're right with God, you think you're holy, you think you're better than all these people who never go to church. And all Jesus does (all the time!) is rip you a new one for your hypocrisy.

Here is a devout man who claims he has kept all the Commandments. And Jesus' response?

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When Ben Carson says, "I don't in any way deny my faith in God," that is a typical religious brag. Peter said the same thing! Very powerful Christians commit this sin, all the time. Mother Teresa used to talk about the sin of pride, how that was a big danger for her.

If you want to ask Ben Carson about his Christianity, you might start by asking him if he has given all his money to the poor. We could bust on him all day for his flaws, his sins, and his hypocrisies.; 9/11/15, 6:31 AM
Saint Croix said...: Ben Carson, by the way, tells a very powerful story about an awful thing he once did, and how he was redeemed.

You can't really fake that. You either tell that story that makes you look like an awful sinner, or you keep it secret.; 9/11/15, 8:08 AM
Rusty said...: That's not saying you should talk about how religious you are. The reference is to "good works," not talk.

Something about a Sanhedrin(?) praying loudly on the street corner?; 9/11/15, 8:24 AM
traditionalguy said...: Word of caution on following openly religious personas and preachers. The personality type that does best playing that role would also make the very best lawyer and the very best con man. Those three have an inter changeable skill set.

I am satisfied that Trump is not from any of those three professions. He chose honesty.; 9/11/15, 8:25 AM
walter said...: "Carson cannot take seriously the proverb he cites. He is bragging about being humble."

But that's part of the deal for some of faith...when you look beneath the surface of some of the language. So convinced are they of being right on the matter, keep trying to sell you on it.; 9/11/15, 1:45 PM
Gabriel said...: @Rusty:Something about a Sanhedrin(?) praying loudly on the street corner?

Since Ann's standard is the literal wording of the passage, well neither Ben Carson nor Trump did any public praying in their statements and of course they weren't on a street corner.

But I'm curious to know, if the issue means so much to you, why don't you use the Google to find the verse:

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

If you decide you have license to expand "pray at the street corners" into "any mention at all of one's faith in public", then how do you reconcile that with

"let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven"

Because I have a license to generalize "light shine" and "good works", now don't I? If I don't, you get to explain why not using the same source material I'm using. Which might require reading it at some point, or at least Googling the verses to see what they actually say.

And now it isn't so easy, is it, to half-remember a verse and tell a Christian they are Doing It Wrong.; 9/11/15, 4:19 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Cuomo bolsters his belief in Carson with: "He's a 7th Day Adventist, I mean, it's something he talks about a lot." That's quite silly. What does affiliation with a particular sect prove about the depth or substance of one's faith?

Because more is required of them. What's silly is pretending that greater commitment doesn't generally require greater belief in the rightness of what someone is doing.; 9/12/15, 12:48 PM