July 19, 2015

Who said "I have tremendous respect for McCain but I don’t buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured. I thought the idea was to capture them. As far as I’m concerned he sat out the war"?

Al Franken! Back in 2000 in a Salon thing called "What's at stake in the 2000 elections?/Rosa Parks, David Duke, Steve Wozniak, Camille Paglia, Al Franken -- and dozens more -- talk about what inspires and frightens them about the political year ahead."

I wonder how many other old jokes are woven into the oddly woven head of Donald Trump.

I found that Salon piece via "Donald Trump Uses Old Al Franken POW Joke About John McCain/Franken 15 years ago: 'I don't buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured'" at Reason.com, where I went because of this tweet from Penn Jillette....



... which I got to from a Bizpac Review article titled "Penn Jillette praises Trump as genius with no filter; libs go nuts trying to spin", which I only noticed because of my Google alert on "bob dylan":



From the Bizpac thing:
“Thelonius Monk [sic], the great jazz piano player, said — and it’s not a well-known quotation, but I love it — [Jillette] said, ‘The genius is the one who is most like himself.’ That’s what I love with Bob Dylan, Lenny Bruce, Tiny Tim — they were completely like themselves. Trump, for better or worse, is in that category... I have talked one-on-one with Bob Dylan, and I have talked one-on-one with Trump, and they do not have filters. They speak honestly and from the heart.”...
I'm sure there's a joke at this point about how that thing Trump wears on his head — his hair hat — could be used as filter, but let's be serious. Trump is some kind of genius. We can grant him that. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious, we don't want a genius President! Thelonious Monk, Bob Dylan, Lenny Bruce, Tiny Tim... that's a hell of a list. Trump is flattered to be put on that list by as fine a man as Penn Jillette. But neither Thelonious Monk, Bob Dylan, Lenny Bruce, nor Tiny Tim belonged in the Presidency.

Who would have made the best President?




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100 comments:

Bob R said...

Would any of the dead guys make a better POTUS than the live one.

mezzrow said...

That's the most refreshing decision I've made in years. Well done, Althouse.

Gahrie said...

Franken, instead of being a third rank politician, should still be a third ranked comedian. He was elected through fraud.

It'll be interesting to see if the MSM just ignores the fact that Franken said it first, or comes up with some lame reason why it was OK for Franken but verbotten for Trump.

Oso Negro said...

Tiny Tim couldn't have possibly believed his own bullshit. The other three probably do/did.

Ambrose said...

It is sort of a variation of the line from Patton about not dying for your country but making the other guy die for his.

Sebastian said...

"It'll be interesting to see if the MSM just ignores the fact that Franken said it first, or comes up with some lame reason why it was OK for Franken but verbotten for Trump."

Easy.

"Jokes" that rally Prog troops are OK. "Jokes" that can be used to divide GOP need to be criticized.

Vile politicians who promote Prog causes are good. Vile politicians who posture as GOP are vile.

Fernandinande said...

Thelonious Monk - never heard him that I know of (don't like jazz).
Bob Dylan - always considered him a novelty act, like T. Tim.
Lenny Bruce - never heard him that I know of - said naughty words, wow.
Tiny Tim - check out "Daddy Daddy What Is Heaven Like" on youtube.
Yikes!

Ann Althouse said...

From a blog post in 2006:

"Bob's theme today -- on "Theme Time Radio With Bob Dylan" -- was, officially, flowers. ... I felt that "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" was the emotional high point of the show. We know from reading "Chronicles" that Bob Dylan was friends with Tiny Tim, and introducing the song, he swept aside the superficial view of Tim as just a joke. He was a great historian of music, Dylan said. He knew a lot of songs that were available only on sheet music, and when he died, he took a lot of songs with him. It's not like Tim died in a fire of burning sheet music, so I don't really understand how the music was lost, but it felt very profound and poignant when Dylan said it."

Ann Althouse said...

"It is sort of a variation of the line from Patton about not dying for your country but making the other guy die for his."

I agree. That was my association too.

There's a convention these days to refer to those who've suffered as "heroes." It's not the best occasion to become a language pundit... unless you want to be outrageous and provocative. It's a standard comedian move, similar to Bill Mahrer's famous statement that the 9/11 terrorists were not cowards.

It just goes to show how wrong and right you can be.

Titus said...

Maher Mary!

Phil 314 said...

Meanwhile Trump keeps digging. He's a fighter alright!

Patrick Henry was right! said...

You know who else doesn't belong on that list, Barrack Obama. Or Joe Biden, either.

Chris N said...

I think most people haven't realized that 'deploying the Trump' or 'tossing the Trump' into the water is classic misdirection.

The Republican party elders (double-secret move) have 'tossed the Trump' into the water here so that the Lefty publications and mainstreamers, like piranha, have something to feast upon.

Did Trump have an off the books, illegal alien transexual hairdresser? Gotcha!

Some Trumpers enter the fray as well until it's a big, roiling mess.

Then, the wise, old compassionate heads of the GOP try and calmly fish from the other side of the boat.

Unknown said...

McCain faced a high risk of capture as a combat aviatior, the fact he was willing to face this was heroic. But more to the point, his conduct as a POW makes him a hero.

Chris N said...


Do you remember the first time you saw YOUR name on a lawn-sign for city Comptroller?

I didn't think so, punk.

garage mahal said...

Bu but what about Franken?

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khesanh0802 said...

In olden times McCain would have been thought normal if he called Trump on to the dueling ground for his comment. In this instance I would happily act as second.

I am not enamored of the hypocritical "I support the troops" act from so many people who have not a clue what it means to be one of those troops. To belittle McCain's service is beyond the pale. Was McCain supposed to commit suicide by aircraft when he was shot down or was he supposed to attempt to save himself to fight another day? The latter is the obvious answer for anyone who has seen any service. He continued to fight in any way that he could. Whether you agree or disagree with his politics, one should not insult the man.

Franken is an idiot.

KLDAVIS said...

Went to see Penn & Teller on Broadway last night. They did a great anti-TSA bit about why their show doesn't travel as much as it used to...including the metal Bill of Rights cards they keep in their pockets when traveling so they have to physically give up their rights in order to get through security. To drive home the theater of it all, they were also selling plastic knives embedded in hairbrush handles at the gift shop (illegal in 44 states, apparently). Was amazed the full-blown Libertarian talking points got a huge ovation from the NYC audience, but I guess there's a good amount of selection bias happening.

Sydney said...

@KLDAVIS- do they sell those little metal Bill of Rights cards? I would carry that!

Sydney said...

At the risk of being mean to a very old man who when he was young did some brave things for his country at a time when it wasn't fashionable to serve your country bravely, I have to say there's truth to what Franken and The Donald say. What McCain did in the past is past. It has very little bearing on how well he would serve as President. It is better to judge him on his most recent actions. And as far as I'm concerned, the way his campaign treated Sarah Palin tells me that whatever integrity he had has disappeared in the vaults of time.

KLDAVIS said...

Sydney, yes they do.

Robert Cook said...

"Tiny Tim couldn't have possibly believed his own bullshit. The other three probably do/did."

Why do you think that? He was doing his thing in the NYC village cafes as early as the early 60s, years before he gained national name via Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In. It strikes me that anyone willing to be that eccentric--even bizarre--for so many decades, long before the culture would have found him tolerable and for so little financial return had to have believed in himself and what he was doing. More than that, he had to have been unable to behave any other way than as he presented himself.

Thelonious Monk had not one iota of bullshit about him.

Original Mike said...

John McCain rejected early release by his captors in order to deny them a PR victory. He's a fucking hero and Donald Trump is an ass.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Original Mike said...

And ditto for Al Franken.

etienne said...

McCain strapped-on a jet, went after a well defended target, and was not successful in returning to the ship. He doesn't have to be a hero, that wasn't his mission. To say he is a hero, is only to acknowledge that he was a warrior in his youth, nothing more. Being a POW makes no one a hero, it's pointing your jet into a hail of gunfire and missiles, and sacrificing yourself to the mission.

Hero worship is still a positive thing for growing children's minds. Will today's youth pick Trump as their hero, maybe some Kardashian, and will they direct their lives energies to emulating them, or will they pick a person who has actually done something to honor the tribe.

Sadly, McCain started the whole thing by trying to sucker punch Trump. You can't blame an old man for playing into a younger mans foibles. Old people lose their sense of honor, as more and more synapses burn out, and nurses are required to help you bend into a chair.

Michael said...

McCain wasn't captured, he was shot down over enemy territory. And his heroism was demonstrated after he fell into NV hands more than before.

Also, geniuses may be those who are most like themselves - but so are fools, and so was Hitler. Anything three sigmas off the norm will be "authentic," for better or worse.

From Inwood said...

When none of the usual candidates is talking about the concerns of most of the people, some of the people will find someone who is & and that someone may be someone who most of those who count do not like all of the time.

Until his McCain gaffe, Trump looked like he had a spot on the debate stage.

Not surprising to those of us who were aware of his, er, dontopedalogy. Good thing he did this early on before he was nominated.


Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
Also, geniuses may be those who are most like themselves - but so are fools, and so was Hitler.


Do we really know Hitler was being true to himself? Maybe his quest for world domination was compensation for his failed artistic career. If he had been a better artist, or just a more confident one, maybe we could have all been saved much bother, not to mention the endless references to Hitler in blog posts.

Hagar said...

It is remarkable how John McCain has suddenly become an irreproachable "war hero" to the MSM.

Or is it just that they are scared of Trump?

He may be a bomb-throwing clown, but there are truths imbedded in his charges, and they - Democrat or Republican - do not want people to hear and pick up on them.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I can't claim to understand the Republican base any more than I understand the Democratic base (Al Gore? ... gag me). But, I doubt this particular faux pas by the Donald will put much of a dent in his popularity. McCain has been a punching bag for pretty much every faction in the base at some point or the other, whining about our Don's particular contribution seems hypocritical and politically rather than morally motivated.

William said...

You give Trump a better angle of attack. When queried by a network pundit about his remarks, he should ask the pundit if he had ever queried Franken about his remarks. Then he should go on to attack the pundit for his cowardice, bias and fat assed wife. "I fuck supermodels. Get back to me when you lose that pig you're married to." .....McCain is undoubtedly a hero. Trump is now saying that McCain is ineffectual on veteran's affairs. Whatever, but that's not what Trump said.....Remember when that female candidate in running shoes called her opponent a "fucking lame assed cripple" and then tried to justify her remarks by saying he wasn't spending enough money on research for spinal cord injuries.

David said...

Dylan would be the first (sort of) Jewish President. Another milestone, so it has to be him, because Identity. (It would be better if this were actually a big part of his Identity, but he could fake it. Really, Dylan knows how to fake it. He does.)

Brando said...

McCain isn't a hero because he was shot down--he's a hero because he fought honorably for his country despite being in an ill-conceived war that Leftists of Franken's ilk supported until it got ugly, and because when he was a POW he had a chance to go home early and refused to do so for the sake of his fellow POWs. Maybe being a second rate comedy writer or a reality show clown makes it hard for Franken or Trump to understand that.

Both Franken and Trump are cut from the same cloth--both want Hillary to win and both love to mock the GOP.neither is worth listening to.

William said...

Of the four I'd pick Dylan. Monk apparently had some kind of undiagnosed psychiatric disorder. His genius may have consisted in finding the beat and melody in his bipolar disorder.. Lenny Bruce was an addict. Addicts always try to blame their intimate relations for their addictions. "If you were more kind and understanding, I wouldn't need to take drugs." Bruce managed to project the blame for his flaws on society at large. He succeeded brilliantly and became a role model for drug addicts everywhere. I don't know what Tiny Tim's thing was. But perhaps in the way that Caitlyn brought the problems of the transgendered to our attention, Tiny Tim made the world a better place for the ungendered.......Bob Dylan, as rock stars go, is actually pretty sane and moderate in his habits. Also, early in his life he was a phony and a liar. That should stand him in good stead in his dealings with the public and with foreign powers.

AllenS said...

I tried to comment over at the Minneapolis newspaper The Star Tribune about this story, but they have a moderator and they won't show it. They did cover what Trump said, and thought it was horrible!

AllenS said...

Hey! Second time was the charm. I can hardly wait for the hate to begin.

Ann Althouse said...

Late returns show a surge for Lenny Bruce!

Ann Althouse said...

"Bu but what about Franken?"

Are you asking if Franken is a genius?

Mark Caplan said...

Authentic politician -- one who is most like himself -- goes with those other famous oxymorons, like jumbo shrimp and head butt.

Jeff Gee said...

On that 2006 Theme Time Radio Hour, Dylan says: "No one knew more about old music than Tiny Tim. He studied it and he loved it. He knew all the old songs that only existed as sheet music. When he passed away, we lost a national treasure." The national treasure we lost was Tiny Tim, not the sheet music. (You can stream the episode over here.)

I would have to go with Dylan for president, given Monk's bi-polar disorder and Bruce's addiction. I don't think Tiny ever fronted a band, which suggests to me he was uncomfortable wielding even that degree of executive power.

walter said...

"The genius is the one who is most like himself.’ That’s what I love with Bob Dylan, Lenny Bruce, Tiny Tim"

Dylan? The bulk of his career ear deep in affect?
Joni explores with the misunderstood Hate Fucker

walter said...

To skip to some of it:
Joni compares Dylan to Hillbillies

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

Dylan. More pragmatic than the rest. He would have enough sense to delegate to people who know more than him. You might say that he would know that he can not do other people's jobs better than they can, unlike the current denizen of the the White House.

Michael K said...

" I doubt this particular faux pas by the Donald will put much of a dent in his popularity. "

The Republican base, unlike Democrats and leftists (but I repeat myself) are very concerned about disrespect to vets.

The day after the shooting in Tennessee, was not a good time to disrespect vets.

I doubt you understand.

Matt Sablan said...

Honestly, I didn't see what was so offensive about that joke. Leftists have said the same thing about McCain for almost a decade. I was offended then, but since no one corrected them, I just assumed it was now acceptable.

walter said...

He's the wrong messenger for this..but it is high time that a distinction between history of an individual act of act of courage in the past and acting wisely years after that is forcefully made. John Lewis also gets unwarranted reverence due to his past. It's essentially a variation on cult of personality.

Matt Sablan said...

[Note: I get why I thought the comment was offensive when I first heard people saying it a decade ago. I just don't understand why the media NOW thinks it is offensive, when they didn't then.]

walter said...

Matthew,
Part of it is the usual double-standard/relative morality..i.e. killing the messenger if they are expected to have a different message..making them vulnerable.
As Michael K points out:
"The Republican base, unlike Democrats and leftists (but I repeat myself) are very concerned about disrespect to vets."

Joe said...

"[John McCain] was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg ejecting from the aircraft, and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him."

"Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, beating and interrogating him to get information;... He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery..."

Yeah, that's "sitting out the war."

What did Al Franken do at 18? What did Trump do during the Vietnam war? In terms of overrated experience, Trump, well, trumps everyone; he's a con artist, not a businessman.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
The Republican base, ... are very concerned


Did you wrap yourself in the flag when you wrote this? It is Republicans who are making the news on this one, not Democrats.

Known Unknown said...

I voted Dylan. He's a businessman who wisely avoiding being too political during the 60s.

Michael K said...

"Did you wrap yourself in the flag when you wrote this? It is Republicans who are making the news on this one, not Democrats."

Yes, actually I did. I happened to have a large one right here. Would you like a photo ?

Idiot. Sorry but that is an idiotic comment.

Tell me about your military experience. None ? Oh, how did I know that ?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Irrelevancies, ad hominems and a failure to address the argument - why aren't I surprised.

Skyler said...

I recall years ago, long before he ran for president, some had been saying that his time in captivity was less than honorable. Since then the story has changed. I am one of those who won't fault him for being captured, but I don't give points for being captured. Being captured, by itself, does not make one a hero.

What's more relevent is his role in the Keating scandal and his behavior as a senator. I loathe John McCain and don't feel a need to do otherwise.

Anonymous said...

Blogger Michael K said...
" I doubt this particular faux pas by the Donald will put much of a dent in his popularity. "

The Republican base, unlike Democrats and leftists (but I repeat myself) are very concerned about disrespect to vets.

The day after the shooting in Tennessee, was not a good time to disrespect vets.

I doubt you understand.


I've asked all the vets on my Facebook page, which are exactly 7, what they think of The Donalds comments.

They have more disdain for McCain than they do revulsion at his comments.

I was put off by Trumps comments, but at the same time, I'm tired of McCain. If you listen to the exchange between Donald Trump and his interviewer, the interviewer is in effect saying, "Shut Up!" to Donald Trump. Politicians don't get to use that card. Obama has used it as President due to his race. Hillary would use it due to her gender. McCain has been playing this card for years and gets away with calling us crazies and hobbits and all sorts of crap.

I'm glad Donald Trump finally slapped him around.

machine said...

"The Republican base, unlike Democrats and leftists (but I repeat myself) are very concerned about disrespect to vets."

purple freakin band-aids and war lyin are sooooo very respectful.

cubanbob said...

Naval aviator John McCain is a hero. Politician John McCain is altogether something else.

Michael K said...

"purple freakin band-aids and war lyin are sooooo very respectful."

You should spend some time on leftist blogs, where you would probably be more comfortable anyway,

Michael K said...

"a failure to address the argument "

Which argument was that again ? Republicans are, as you put it, " Republicans who are making the news on this one, not Democrats."

Of course ! Democrats don;t care about vets except for the risk of them going crazy apr becoming homeless. Other than those two issues, Democrats never mention vets.

"I don't give points for being captured."

How about respecting the Code of Honor and refusing early repatriation while he was being tortured ?

I am not a McCain fan although I supported him in 2000 against Bush.

McCain was a bit of a fuck-up as a midshipman and aviation cadet but he behaved well in combat,. He broke under torture but the men who did not are dead.

Trump is a clown. About on an equal with Franken. He has said some things that other candidates should be saying. Immigration should be big issue but Trump is not the person to say it.

etienne said...

cubanbob said...Naval aviator John McCain is a hero.

A good portion of the 97 Trillion that Congress has spent without finding a way to pay for it (kick the can), has been under his watch.

No one in Congress should open their yap about leading the country through its economy.

They have all failed.

Humperdink said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henry said...

The genius is the one who is most like himself.

But at the same time, it's pretty obvious, we don't want a genius President!

Calvin Coolidge. Unfiltered.

Humperdink said...

McCain is a war hero, without question. No if, ands or buts.

Since being in Washington, however, he has more damage to the Republican party than any other R in recent memory. He has participated in Washington "group think" for decades now. Accommodated the D's at every turn. He's patriot to the country and a traitor to the party.

McCain-Feingold? How that turn out John?

He should have been thrown in the pokey at the conclusion of the Keating Five investigation.

Michael K said...

"A good portion of the 97 Trillion that Congress has spent without finding a way to pay for it (kick the can), has been under his watch."

The one thing that McCain has done in the Senate that I agree with is to be a budget hawk. He even opposed an Air Force contract to buy MD-11 tankers that turned out to be a case of bribery that sent two people to prison.

He is wrong on the border and had a Mexican citizen as his advisor on that. He is a bit of a jerk. A friend of mine who is a retired Marine fighter pilot flew an F 18 to a McCain event and, when he stood in the receiving line, McCain never even acknowledged him. He was right on spending although he looked terrible in the meltdown of 2008 but so did most of Washington.

Michael K said...

"He should have been thrown in the pokey at the conclusion of the Keating Five investigation."

No, he was naive and the Democrats got him involved as cover since Keating was a constituent.

And at the end of the investigation, I concluded that Senator McCain and Senator Glenn should be exonerated, that is, that there should be no further action against them, but that was rejected by the Committee and there were some twenty-six days of public hearings.
As you know, Mark, ’cause on the occasions we’ve met, I- we argued some. I’m a Democrat, as you know. But, I had to call it the way the evidence dictated, and I called it that John McCain did nothing wrong. How Heflin, who at the time, was the Chairman of the Committee, was very concerned that there be twenty-six days of hearings with only Democrats in “the docks”, so to speak, so my recommendation about exonerating Senators Glenn and McCain was rejected and we went forward. But… it’s….and at the end of the day, it was pretty clear, from all the evidence, that there was no violation by Senator McCain.
\

That's Bob Bennett, a Democrat. McCain was the only Republican implicated.

Michael K said...

I might add that I think that set him off on the campaign finance hobbyhorse. He was humiliated.

CatherineM said...

McCain is a hero. Full stop.

I don't like him as a politician. Think other than foreign policy, he would be very similar to Obama as President.

One can be a military hero and someone you don't agree with.

I don't understand those who think disagreements with someone's views negates their heroism even if it was 40+ years ago.

Trump is a buffoon, Al Frankenstein has bad breath and reeks of mothballs.

Michael K said...

"he would be very similar to Obama as President. "

Disagree. Obama is a hard leftist. It's as though we elected Bill Ayres president. McCain would probably be similar to Bush. Pretty good in foreign policy (It was State that screwed Iraq) and hopeless on economics.

SociallyExtinct said...

Why is Donald Trump even squandering energy on a has-been political retiree? I get the feeling his social development is trapped in his Howard Stern guesthood era.

Trump is able to go from unpopular issue-tackler to vain male attention whore in the span of seconds. He's got quite a set of brakes!

mtrobertslaw said...

McCain single handedly blocked legislation that would have declassified all the information the Pentagon had on the POWs held by North Vietnam. This information included all debriefing files on the POWs who were released, including those released POWs who were in prison with McCain.

Why McCain vehemently opposed this declassification is unclear.

Michael K said...

There is a school thought that we abandoned about 300 POWs in Vietnam. That is usually in very hostile anti-Kissinger articles.

Kissinger claimed that, at least, he had gotten the American prisoners back. But no. As the Vietnamese had done in 1954 after Dien Bien Phu, they returned about 60 percent of the prisoners and publicly demanded ransom for the rest. In 1954, the French paid and got their men back. In 1973–76, Nixon and Ford refused to ask Congress for the ransom money. To have done so would have impeached the claim that they and Kissinger had salvaged America’s “honor.” So, they left at least 311 Americans to rot in Vietnamese prisons and scrubbed concern for them from the U.S. government, the press, and the ruling class. Sydney Schanberg’s reports in the New York Times are sobering reading.

That is Angelo Codevilla's response to Conrad Black at NRO on Kissinger. I am not into conspiracies but Codevilla is a very serious guy. Maybe McCain was trying to shut down that debate. If so, it is disturbing.

Michael K said...

Schanberg became the most prominent journalist to extensively investigate allegations that American POWs had been knowingly left in Laos in 1973 by a Nixon administration desperate to end the war. In a provocative, evidence-laden 2008 article, Schanberg described Senator John McCain’s role in the POW controversy and succinctly laid out the documentary record of what he believes has been a decades-long effort to conceal the facts.

That's at History.net

Rusty said...

Unknown said...
McCain faced a high risk of capture as a combat aviatior, the fact he was willing to face this was heroic. But more to the point, his conduct as a POW makes him a hero.


He flew fuckin airplanes off a fuckin aircraft carriers. All those guys got big, big balls.

Humperdink said...

Michael said: "No, he was naive and the Democrats got him involved as cover since Keating was a constituent."

I disagree.

"McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981, and McCain was the only one of the five with close social and personal ties to Keating.[42][43] Like DeConcini, McCain considered Keating a constituent as he lived in Arizona.[35] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates.[44] McCain and his family had made several trips at Keating's expense. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[7][45] In 1989 Phoenix New Times writer Tom Fitzpatrick opined that McCain was the "most reprehensible" of the five senators."

"McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf ......McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."

The senate does not eat it's own, which is why he was exonerated. I suspect a court of law may have had a different view.

Michael K said...

" he was exonerated"

No, he was the Republican implicated by the Democrats who had the majority. It was his first term and he was suckered. It's why he has been fixated on campaign reform since.

We can talk about other issues and might agree but this was clearly a setup.

Unknown said...

----How Heflin, who at the time, was the Chairman of the Committee, was very concerned that there be twenty-six days of hearings with only Democrats in “the docks”, so to speak, so my recommendation about exonerating Senators Glenn and McCain was rejected and we went forward. But… it’s….and at the end of the day, it was pretty clear, from all the evidence, that there was no violation by Senator McCain.\

So then as now the Democrats f’ over a Republican via false accusations. A little more execrreable because he was a war hero.

Hmmm falsely convicting a Republican what does that remind me of?

jr565 said...

Gahrie wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if the MSM just ignores the fact that Franken said it first, or comes up with some lame reason why it was OK for Franken but verbotten for Trump."


ANd that's the way Trump can get out of this. He could say, "Hey media, I said what I said and you took so much outrage. Meanhwile Franken said the same thing, and where was the outrage. I merely said this to tweak you and get the reaction I expected. So now lets go after Franken and the dems".

richard mcenroe said...

Sometimes having no filters indicates declining mental faculties. And what the hell kind of Republican quotes Al Franken? Trump would be another Bloomberg on a national scale.

Mick said...

McCain is a traitor. He let the Usurper Hussein Obama attain the office of POTUS and helped him do it. He has also allowed the invasion of the country (illegal aliens, right through his state).
As for you Republicans, how do you like that super majority with Orange man and the Turtle? Hows that workin for ya? Both parties (Teams) are the same, and both are captured by the Pigmen bankers. Now they are merely protecting the treason of allowing the Usurper Obama into the office. They have done ZERO about "stopping Obama's policies" and have in fact enabled and emboldened him. Same with the politicized SCOTUS--- Roberts is blackmailed, and only makes token gestures of resistance to the legislation by the courts of Obama's NWO agenda, instituted by Cloward- Piven.

Yet you morons will still vote for your "team" and the band of traitors on that team that are complete failures, while they gorge themselves at the public trough.

Trump is controlled opposition and a steam vent, designed to keep public anger from entering the ropes and lamp posts phase. In time he and his "followers" will be made to look like racist hillbillies, because the media will focus on the "crazier" ones, and flushed.
Talk of protecting the country from the hordes of illegals abusing our system will be made to look like racist crazy talk, and Trump is in on it.

Brando said...

It's galling to see Trump fans defend these comments--imagine if it was Obama and not Trump who said those exact statements.

There is something very sick going on in the Right.

tim in vermont said...

Trump's a fucktard,

I can imagine his version of Flanders Field

In Flanders fields the poppies grow
between the crosses, row on row
that mark the place where slackers lie
who dodged their duty, they chose to die

They are the Dead. Short days ago
Sitting out the war, they quit the show
Lowly cowards now they lie
in Flanders Fields

tim in vermont said...

New Times writer Tom Fitzpatrick opined that McCain was the "most reprehensible" of the five senators."

LOL, was that supposed to be support for your position? The New York Times opined that the Republican was the "most reprehensible"?

Do you actually read the New York Times with any sense of history?

Quaestor said...
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Quaestor said...

Do you actually read the New York Times with any sense of history?

If one reads The New York Times with a sense of irony it's funnier than The Onion.

Humperdink said...

@Tim in Bernieland.

You may want to go back and read the quote. It was not the New York Times.

Quaestor said...

Althouse wrote: "But at the same time, it's pretty obvious, we don't want a genius President!"

I don't see that as obvious at all. I may be a near-idiot, but I'm not a complete idiot. Althouse has to back her claim with something more substantial than "it's pretty obvious."

First let's be clear that Penn Jillete was not using the word in same sense as, say, a neuroscientist would. He was using the show biz sense. The history of American entertainment is littered with show biz geniuses because a show biz genius is just someone who's successful at what he does. If a shtick makes a lot of money, the shtickser is a genius. The first American show biz genius was P. T. Barnum who he realized that unlike Europe America's credulous oafs had money. Close on his heels was William F. Cody who realized that Europe had plenty of credulous oafs with money. Then came Florenz Ziegfeld who realized that what America wanted was sex, but not too much of it. Louis B. Meyer was a genius because he realized America wanted nice stories about nice people winning out in the end. At the very same moment Jack Warner became a genius by realizing America wanted psychopathic anti-heroes who die violently in the end. Bob Dylan became a genius when America decided regret was an opinion one held about someone else. Even abject failures can become show biz geniuses when tastes change - consider the reputation of the pathetic Edward D. Wood, Jr.

Donald Trump is by the show biz definition a genius; this is certain. He has spent the better part of the last thirty years making a spectacle of himself, and has pocketed a hefty profit thereby more often than not. Trump may be a genius in a more conventional sense as well. He was notorious in New York long before anybody in Omaha or Tucumcari heard of him. In a city full of rent-controlled properties Trump was making money hand over fist when old money landlords were going broke. Trump celebrated his genius by inventing the trophy wife and by refusing to go bald into that good night.

Humperdink said...

I find it interesting all the love from left and right for McCain (now). It didn't mean much when he ran for president.

Same thing with Bob Dole. Another war hero (severely injured) who lost his run for the presidency.

GHW Bush won his first run for president on the coat tails of RR, but lost his second run when he was on his own. GHWB was also a war hero who was shot down. Lost to a draft dodger.

Michael K said...

"As for you Republicans"

Enough said.

tim in vermont said...

You may want to go back and read the quote. It was not the New York Times.

Hair split, noted. Do you think that that makes any difference?

walter said...

A few post/exchanges deleted here overnight.....not referring to those by authors..

Gahrie said...

There is something very sick going on in the Right

It's the Left that is about to nominate Hillary. You think that is healthy?

Humperdink said...

Tim "Hair split, noted. Do you think that that makes any difference?"

New York vs Arizona news outlet? Maybe so.

It was for effect anyway. Delete that portion of the quote and you still have a sleazebag politician putting pressure on regulators after having received $100k+ from the regulator's target.

Clean as the wind driven snow. (sarc)

Unknown said...

McCain "sat out" the war? Perhaps Franken believed he was literally in The Hanoi Hilton. Dipshit. When you have no filter everyone can see what an idiot you are.

Amexpat said...

I voted Dylan. He's good in hiring smart people to handle money, his speeches would be interesting and he usually knows which way the wind is blowing before the weatherman.

etienne said...
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Anonymous said...

I don't have time to make my way through all the comments so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I worked for McCain in Pennsylvania in 2008 (just so the other guy wouldn't win) and remember the "He is not a hero meme," voiced repeatedly by a host of opponents. I also remember opponents telling the story of how McCain lost more than one plane during his tour in Vietnam, one of which let a missile go on the deck of a carrier. I don't recall if there were any casualties.

McCain, by dint of family background, served in the military, as all his family had done since the Civil War. He did what was expected. Was he a hero? That's a word that gets thrown around far too often, in my mind but I give McCain some respect for his service and devotion to family tradition.

In the years following his service McCain has sat and watched the country go to ruin, his own adopted state overrun by illegals, and made disparaging remarks about Americans including, "...wacko birds," and now, "...crazies." As has been mentioned I also don't see McCain helping the current veterans and their need for a more efficient health care delivery system outside the VA.

etienne said...
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Brando said...

"It's the Left that is about to nominate Hillary. You think that is healthy?"

Oh I certainly don't! But considering it is the Right that is most likely to straighten out some of this country's most pressing problems (and teh Dems are pretty intellectually corrupt at this point) I see Trump as the greater threat. Though I suspect the two are in cahoots anyway.