July 29, 2015

"I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt."

"I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt."

ADDED: This story of Walter James Palmer, the American dentist who killed Cecil the lion, got Meade playing the old Beatles song "The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill." We got to puzzling over the facts of the song, but there's no need to puzzle. They're set out quite nicely at Wikipedia:
This song mocks the actions of a young American named Richard A. Cooke III, known as Rik, who was visiting his mother, Nancy Cooke de Herrera, at the ashram of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Rishikesh at the same time that the Beatles were staying with the Maharishi. According to his mother, both she and her son maintained friendly relations with all of the Beatles except for Lennon, who by Cooke de Herrera's account was "a genius" but distant and contemptuous of the wealthy American Cooke de Herrera and her clean-cut, college-attending son. According to Nancy's life account, Beyond Gurus, the genesis of the song occurred when she, Rik, and several others, including guides, set out upon elephants to hunt for a tiger (allegedly presented by their Indian guide as a traditional act). The pack of elephants was attacked by a tiger, which was shot by Rik. Rik was initially proud of his quick reaction and posed for a photograph with his prize. However, Rik's reaction to the slaying was mixed, as he has not hunted since. Nancy claims that all present recognised the necessity of Rik's action, but that Lennon's reaction was scornful and sarcastic, asking Rik: "But wouldn't you call that slightly life-destructive?" The song was written by Lennon as mocking what he saw as Rik's bravado and unenlightened attitude.

Lennon later told his version of the story in a Playboy interview, stating that: "‘Bungalow Bill’ was written about a guy in Maharishi's meditation camp who took a short break to go shoot a few poor tigers, and then came back to commune with God. There used to be a character called Jungle Jim, and I combined him with Buffalo Bill. It's sort of a teenage social-comment song and a bit of a joke." Mia Farrow, who was also at the ashram during the period, supports Lennon's story in her autobiography; she writes, "Then a self-important, middle-aged American woman arrived, moving a mountain of luggage into the brand-new private bungalow next to Maharishi's along with her son, a bland young man named Bill. People fled this newcomer, and no one was sorry when she left the ashram after a short time to go tiger hunting, unaware that their presence had inspired a new Beatles song – 'Bungalow Bill.'"
Imagine the contempt if Rik had been a dentist!

AND: Bungalow Bill has a blog, and you can see a photo of him with the tiger and listen to his reminiscing about the incident here.

102 comments:

MadisonMan said...

Sometimes experts lead you down the path, just for the $$$$ you are giving them.

The reaction to this dead lion is a little over the top, IMO.

Carol said...

It's a sad story, but I don't think people realize just how much hunting of lions goes on in Africa. Totally legal. And zebras, too. It's like shooting horses. All for the trophies and photos to impress the folks back home that you're truly Livin the Life.

AllenS said...

Bullshit. He was busted hunting bear in Wisconsin a couple of years ago, and lied about shooting the bear in a place not open for bear hunting.

Gahrie said...

Are lions or zebras endangered? If not, who cares?

People have been killing lions and zebras since we learned how to hunt large animals.

Tell you what...I'll protect the lions from humans when you protect the zebras from lions.

Mr. D said...

Would the lion poaching dentist cater pizzas to a gay wedding at the Spokane NAACP?

halojones-fan said...

I'm sure he took pains to not ask any questions, and to instruct everyone else not to tell him anything, for the express purpose of being able to make this "I knew nothing, I was deceived" claim later.

Bro, if you want to convince us that you were on the level, then you *don't* start whining about how it's not your fault. You *do* immediately make a big donation to conservation efforts, publish the name of the guide you say deceived you, etc.

halojones-fan said...

Gahrie: lions are very definitely endangered.

Mark said...

AllenS has the truth. This guy is well acquainted with illegal hunting, this is just the most recent example.

etbass said...

Should be no surprise if the tragic irony is raised for the killing of thousands of unborn babies (mostly black) that is almost celebrated but the killing of an animal is a worldwide scandal.

rhhardin said...

Lions must be made pathetic to make it in the media.

There is often a lot going on if there is a lion around, even though the lion is assuredly a noble beast. For example, when you put ``noble beast'' together with ``Hollywood,'' interesting situations arise. Say a scene calls for a lion to be, sadly, run over by a truck. A large truck, of course, because a large truck is required if the lion is to look pathetic. Alas for the Voice from the Whirlwind, who praised his servants the animals for being ever beyond human capacities to subdue, we have learned to make the lion look pathetic, without the use of weapons. Our imaginations are no better than Nietzsche's psychologists, mucking around in the souls of men as if in a swamp.

Vicki Hearne _Animal Happiness_ p.169

Mark said...

AllenS, he just needs a tiger now. Oh my.

gerry said...

Let's see here: which outrages more, the killing of Cecil the lion, or designer abortions that preserve fetuses so they can be dismembered after being killed and removed whole, so they can be sold as parts for greater profit?

Brian said...

If he acted illegally, he should face the prescribed legal punishment. But this OUTRAGE! is really over the top. Cecil the Lion would have killed and eaten Walter the Dentist at the first opportunity, and nobody but Walter's family would be doing anything but cracking jokes about it.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Dentist shoots lion, the Internet pitches a collective fit and screams for his blood. "Non-profit" organization operates a baby chop shop, and many of the same people screaming for the dentist's blood studiously ignore it.

WTF is wrong with these people?

Don't answer that. I know what is wrong with them.

Phil 3:14 said...

But is he a good dentist?

Brando said...

This isn't some rube shooting squirrels in his back forty--if you're travelling to Africa to hunt big game, and hire guides etc., you should at least be certain that what you're hunting is completely legal.

It is interesting though how people can hunt and kill deer every weekend and no one makes a peep, then this guy kills a lion and he's suddenly a pariah. Why is one killing preferred over another? Either all hunting for sport is immoral or none of it is (though I'll agree that if your type of hunting is particularly cruel to the animal, like certain traps, that's worse than a clean shot).

Tank said...

It is interesting though how people can hunt and kill deer every weekend and no one makes a peep, then this guy kills a lion and he's suddenly a pariah. Why is one killing preferred over another?

If anything, there are too many deer. They are certainly not in any danger of being extinct. Most of us would hate to see lions become extinct.

Of course hunting is moral. God gave us animals to eat. Or vice versa.

David said...

This is Zimbabwe, a failed country in desperate need of hard currency. They let this go on to make money.

It was also a terrible hunt, like baiting a bear. There was no sport and despite the macho panache of the bow and arrow, no real risk to the hunter. There were men with guns backing him up, to be sure. Lion are easy kills these days, especially lion which have become habituated to humans and their vehicles. Ugly, ugly hunt.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

There's something fucking sick about somebody who goes to such extraordinary lengths to put an arrow into an animal in order to watch it slowly die in agony.

The word he uses to descibe how he feels is "love."

Somehow, I believe him when he says that.

Gahrie said...

Gahrie: lions are very definitely endangered.

Really? The WWF fund doesn't list lions as endangered. Lots of other big cats, and sea lions, but no lions.

There are at least 23,000 lions in the wild as of 2014, and I would be willing to bet at least that many in captivity.

mikee said...

Do newspeople keep a few stories like this available to use any time there are negative news stories about one of their favored leftist causes, like Planned Parenthood or Hillary or Lois Lerner?

Because this certainly has a whiff of "Look! A squirrel!" about it.

I can understand Zimbabwe's press using the illegal hunting to distract Zimbabweans from the state of Zimbabwe. What I find repulsive is the US media doing the same.

And hey, Cecil Rhodes, with a lion as his namesake instead of the entire country, is surely laughing in his grave.

Brando said...

"If anything, there are too many deer. They are certainly not in any danger of being extinct. Most of us would hate to see lions become extinct."

That, and you can also eat deer where I've never heard of lion steak being on a menu.

Laslo Spatula said...

I wouldn't mind so much people hunting lions if the hunter was only armed with a knife.

Would make good YouTube fodder.

I am Laslo.

Brando said...

"I can understand Zimbabwe's press using the illegal hunting to distract Zimbabweans from the state of Zimbabwe."

I wonder how much of a Facebook trend we've seen over human rights abuses in that same country vs. how much outrage we've seen over the killing of a lion.

Granted, being upset about one thing does not mean you can't be upset about another, but it's sad what it takes to get people's attention.

William said...

The lion was old and full of years. Cecil was going to die soon. He sensed that, and he knew that his death would not be easy. No one wants to perish by having their entrails eaten by their grandchildren while they're still alive. It's a hard death. Perhaps Cecil decided to wander off the game reserve because he was looking for a quick, easy end. Suicide by dentist.

Brando said...

"Big Game Hunter Kills Endangered Lion in Zimbabwe Hunt. Zimbabwe Still a Human Rights Hellhole."

rhhardin said...

A Sarah Palin helicopter wolf hunt is what you want to go on.

LarsPorsena said...

As loathsome as this individual is, there are thousands and thousands of instances of the natives doing this but without a scintilla of outrage in the press.

It's almost analogous to the frenzy that greets a white cop killing a black man as opposed to the great yawns over thousands black on black deaths.

SGT Ted said...

Who fucking cares that a dentist shot a lion?

The Outrage Factory cranks out another steaming pile of bullshit for the easily manipulated.

David said...

Mia Farrow wrote: ""Then a self-important, middle-aged American woman arrived, moving a mountain of luggage . . . "

So the Ashram really is a magical place. She saw the future and it was herself.

Bob Boyd said...

Pro Tip: Never shoot anything with a first name.

David said...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...
There's something fucking sick about somebody who goes to such extraordinary lengths to put an arrow into an animal in order to watch it slowly die in agony.


The incompetent fool wanted to kill the lion quickly. But he failed. Over to you, backup men with guns.

gerry said...

Mia Farrow wrote: ""Then a self-important, middle-aged American woman arrived, moving a mountain of luggage . . . "

That pegged my irony meter.

tim maguire said...

I don't mind rich assholes spending vast sums to kill animals if a goodly portion of that money is used for conservation so the animals as a whole are better off, but there's nothing sporting about pwhat this guy dif and ?i don't bad about him.

And enough with the false choice between this and planned parenthood.

tim maguire said...

...about what this guy did and I don't feel bad for him.

Peggy Coffey said...

Brando: There are places that lion steak is on the menu. I have never tasted it myself, can't bring myself to eat something like that.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I believe it was George Orwell who wrote about his time in India when he had to shoot an elephant. He did a first-rate job of setting out what it's like to be a thinking person of conscience in a world that puts us to unhappy choices.

It's not too long a read, IIRC, and it's on the internet, probably.

Freeman Hunt said...

Lions, being big fans of ripping animals open and eating them alive, have decided to give the guy a pass.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Didn't take much to track it down.

LINK.

I read some short story by Hemingway about some guy going on safari to kill a lion. It had something to do with manly-man courage and the guy's wife preferring the manly-man penis of the guide.

I thought it was garbage.

That said, I have to give credit to Hemingway for describing vividly what it's like to get shot, from the animal's perspective.

Freeman Hunt said...

Why aren't people mad at the guide too?

The BubFather said...

In the meantime, abortionists here work on their 'less crunchy' techniques to preserve fetal baby parts for profit.....Sorry, not worked up over the lion, but MMMmmmmmm less crunchy baby parts!!!

Scott said...

If this guy stuck his fingers in my mouth, I would bite hard.

Laura said...

"No one wants to perish by having their entrails eaten by their grandchildren while they're still alive."

This is why young steers find a champion in Temple Grandin and opt for a stun gun death, knowing that their corpses are highly unlikely to be memorialized by taxidermists.

rhhardin said...

I'm looking for my recipe for Thai elephant.

Terry said...

I suppose Lennon looked at Cooke and realized the visit to the "Maharishi" thing wasn't an outrageous spiritual experiment that showed his moral refinement. Instead it was a bit of bourgeois signaling. Cooke was Lennon's spiritual twin. Lennon had a very 21st century idea of celebrity: not only do you get to be more wealthy and talented than everyone else, you also get to be more moral than everyone else.

David said...

Rik Cooke is now Rikki, and presents himself as a photographer.

He and momma were part of the Cookes of Castle and Cooke, one of the original big five landowners in Hawaii. Predecessor of Dole Pineapple. Owned huge amounts of land on Lanai, Molokai and other islands. The company has been out of family hands for a while but was the seller to Larry Ellison when he bought most of Lanai. Rikki still lives on a ranch in Molokai, does photography seminars at several thousand a session at the ranch and probably meditates a lot.

John Lennon had pretty good judgment sometimes.

David said...

The guide is not an American dentist, Freeman. They are pretending to be mad at the guide in Zimbabwe, because he made them look bad. In fact it's a Zimbabwe state sponsored enterprise, with all the attendant graft. There will be a trial, but I doubt they will feed him to the lions.

Michael said...

I believe this beloved lion made the mistake of wandering outside the game preserve. Or perhaps he was lured, baited.

Lions continue to mate with other lions, there being no lion abortions in Africa. So there will be more. And since Africa is something of a zoo and the mean dentists will be discouraged from their bloodthirsty forays into the bush, there should be more lions. Big beloved ones.

But don't forget the real story here. The beloved lion was killed with a gun, a rifle, perhaps an assault rifle.

damikesc said...

The lion is big news.

Planned Parenthood selling baby parts is far less important news, apparently.

And enough with the false choice between this and planned parenthood.

Why, exactly?

Why is the killing of a lion major news but babies being slaughtered and their organs sold NOT?

The same people who find the lion killing horrifying couldn't give two shits about what happens to the babies at PP.

Those people aren't even worthy of contempt. Contempt is a human emotion and they sacrificed that years ago.

rhhardin said...

Hang a Christian off the jeep to attract lions in Africa.

Big Mike said...

@David, at the end, though, John Lennon learned about predators. The two-legged kind with handguns, anyway.

Big Mike said...

Regarding the Minnesota dentist, it must take tremendous personal courage to shoot a tame lion with bow and arrow. I'm utterly in awe. Utterly.

Not.

rhhardin said...

Killing a lion would be a felony, just looking at the words.

Æthelflæd said...

This is a big media "squirrel" to get attention diverted away from other, crunchier, stories.

Laslo Spatula said...

I met Mia Farrow at a bar in NYC back in the mid-nineties.

She was sitting alone at the bar, a bit disheveled, drinking martinis and talking to herself incomprehensibly, punctuated by exclamations of "Those bastards!"

I sat by her and ordered a drink; she turned to me and said "I'm a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador, motherfucker."

"That sounds noble," I replied.

"Damn right it's noble. I adopt kids, I help the dark people in Darfur, and all the cocksuckers want to know about is Woody Allen," she said, lighting a cigarette with shaky hands.

"Doesn't seem fair."

"Fuck right it ain't fair. I knew John Lennon. I was married to Frank-fucking-Sinatra." With this she stubbed out her just-lit cigarette on the bar a few inches from the overflowing ashtray, then lit another cigarette.

"Frank Sinatra is quite the man, it seems."

"And he was hung like a fucking horse," Mia replied. "Screwing him was like fucking a fire hose."

"Okay..."

"Have you ever fucked a fire hose?"

"No. No I haven't."

"It's like fucking Frank Sinatra," she says, finishing her drink. "THAT is what it is like."

Ordering another drink, she continued.

"And Woody: all he wanted was anal sex. All the time: anal, anal, anal."

"That's certainly interesting."

"You know: Frank Sinatra never once fucked me in the ass. Not once."

"Frank sounds like a gentleman."

"It's because his dick was like a fire hose. He would've torn me apart."

I ordered another drink and contemplated leaving, but Mia kept on with the conversation.

"Roman Polanski once tried to fuck me in the ass."

"You've had quite the life."

"Yeah. Frank found out and threatened to break his little Polish ass in half." Mia guzzled her drink, ordered another, then said "Of course, after reading about Roman and the little girls maybe Frank SHOULD have beaten down the little fucker."

"I can see that..."

"Did you know Frank never had anal sex with me?"

"Uh, I think you mentioned that..."

"You know why?"

"Because it would be like fucking a fire hose?"

"It'd be like fucking a fire hose in you ASS: that's what it would be like..."

I nodded, and sipped my drink.

"I once almost cut off Woody's balls while he was sleeping."

"Really?"

"Yeah, the cocksucker. He was sleeping and I had a pair of scissors and I almost did it."

"It's probably for the best that you didn't follow through..."

"Fuck that. I shoulda done it. FRANK would've."

"Still, I think it's good that you didn't. No one would remember all your hard work, helping people."

"Damn straight. "I'm a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador, motherfucker."

"That's my point."

"Did you know that Frank Sinatra never once tried to fuck me in the ass?"

And with that Mia's limousine arrived.

"Good night, Mia."

"Like a fucking fire hose, that man..."


I am Laslo.

Michael said...

Perfectly legal to shoot a lion if you have the permit.

The lion was not "tame"

a lion cannot be tamed

Ann Althouse said...

"He and momma were part of the Cookes of Castle and Cooke, one of the original big five landowners in Hawaii. Predecessor of Dole Pineapple. Owned huge amounts of land on Lanai, Molokai and other islands. The company has been out of family hands for a while but was the seller to Larry Ellison when he bought most of Lanai. Rikki still lives on a ranch in Molokai, does photography seminars at several thousand a session at the ranch and probably meditates a lot."

I listened to the audio and the sense of a rich guy ensconced amongst rich people is overwhelming. The women laughing and displaying interest and amusement at this dull, droning man... blecch.

rhhardin said...

The women laughing and displaying interest and amusement at this dull, droning man... blecch.

Hypnotic, compelling and then interesting to them.

Think shopping.

hombre said...

Because Lennon and Mia, like other show biz folks, were never "self-important." Right?

AReasonableMan said...

The saddest thing here is that this supposedly wild animal has a name and a dog collar. The wild doesn't exist anymore on land. The oceans remain wilder but GPS, satellite phones and EPIRBs tame them to a considerable extent. Only the exceptional stupid or unlucky manage to die these days.

This man is living a delusion, that he bears some relationship to the big game hunters from centuries ago, who at least faced some risks and hardships sitting atop their elephants rather than inside an air-conditioned Land Rover.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger rhhardin said...
Hang a Christian off the jeep to attract lions in Africa.

7/29/15, 9:50 AM
-----------------------

Obvious that you don't know the story of Christian the Lion.
Google it.

Bill Peschel said...

If the lion hunt / dissecting fetuses alive and selling them "false comparison" doesn't work, how about lion hunt / dissecting family's pizza joint for answering a TV airhead's question they wouldn't cater a gay wedding even though no sane person would ever ask them to.

That work for you?

And if you read enough Lennon interviews, you'll realize that he flip-flops about everyone. He loved Paul. He hated Paul. He loved the Beatles. The Beatles were shit.

The man had serious anger issues and he took it out on whoever was nearest at the moment. Not what you'd call a good judge of character or intellect (witness "Imagine").

Laslo Spatula said...

I had returned to that NYC establishment a few days later, and there again was Mia, at the same seat in the bar. She was nodding and saying "Yes, yes," to a conversation only she could here.

I sat next to her, ordered my drink, then said "It's good to see you again, Mia."

"You. I remember you. You're that guy who kept asking me if Frank Sinatra ever fucked me in the ass."

"Well, sort of..."

"Did you know that Woody Allen took photographs of my naked asshole?"

"No, no I didn't..." I said, sipping my drink.

Mia lit a cigarette, then continued.

"Well he did. Woody would take photographs of my naked asshole in black-and-white, and he called it 'Art'."

"That doesn't seem right..."

"He had taken photographs of Dianne Keaton's naked asshole, too: he showed them to me."

I nodded.

"Fucking 'Art'. You know what they looked like?"

"Hmmm?

"They looked like naked assholes, that's what they looked like."

"That figures..."

"You know his movie "Stardust Memories"?

"Can't say I remember that one."

"It was after he decided to stop being funny," she said, lighting another cigarette while the previous one was still going in the ashtray. "Anyway, he had Sharon Stone play a small role in it. You know why he had Sharon Stone play a small role in it?"

"Well..."

"He had Sharon Stone play a small role in it because he wanted to take photographs of Sharon Stone's naked asshole. And he did, too."

"It sounds like he has issues..."

"You know what Sharon Stone's naked asshole looks like?"

"No..."

"It looks like an asshole, that's what it looks like."

"Okay..."

"When I read about some actress trying out for a role in a Woody film I call them and warn them: he just wants to take pictures of your naked asshole."

"Do they believe you?"

"No. No they don't. And then they are just one more nude asshole picture in Woody's portfolio under the bed."

Thankfully, Mia's limousine arrives, and she stands, totters, then heads to the door.

"Frank Sinatra never did shit like that, I'll tell you that..." she said, muttering to herself as she left into the night...


I am Laslo.

Bob Boyd said...

I was going to say something....what was it? I forget. Something about lions?...I don't know.

Boltforge said...

Ann: Why did you find the lion story interesting and/or disturbing enough to post about it, but not the Planned Parenthood videos? Just curious on why people don't seem to care enough to talk about it.

Brando said...

Lennon was a hell of a musician but by all accounts he sounds like a real bastard of a human being. When he was mocking Rik for killing the tiger, an appropriate response would have been "shouldn't you be beating your wife right about now?"

As for Farrow, she's always been a worthless snot--sort of a Gwyneth Paltrow of an earlier generation. That's right kids--take a good look at Mia Farrow, that's what Paltrow's going to be like in thirty years!

Coupe said...
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Coupe said...
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Michael said...

ARM
"The wild doesn't exist anymore on land. "

This is an absurd statement. Stunning.


"The oceans remain wilder but GPS, satellite phones and EPIRBs tame them to a considerable extent. Only the exceptional stupid or unlucky manage to die these days. "

Followed by an even more silly and wrong assertion

You should get out some, ARM.

AllenS said...

If the dentist had shot a tranquilizing dart into a pregnant female lion, harvested the unborn cub's internal organs to sell, this would have been no big deal.

Boltforge said...

Coupe said...
"Why do you find abortion so compelling?"

You don't find killing ~1,000 kids a day and selling their body parts a bit compelling to discuss? Odd that some people don't.

I guess they avoid talking about it because they LIKE killing kids and selling their body parts. It's a good way to make money and all. And get rid of all those undesirables. Or as Ginsburg put it: “populations that we don’t want to have too many of".

Quick look! Shiny Lion!

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Gee, it didn't occur to me until just now that the dentist's waiting room must be full of stuffed animal heads, mouths wide open, all bearing their teeth.

Maybe he's not such a bad guy, after all.

Rusty said...

halojones-fan said...
Gahrie: lions are very definitely endangered.

Well, yeah. HERE they are.
Ya don't see many lions that big in Wisconsin.



The wild doesn't exist anymore on land.

Yeah. Tell that to the guy and his girlfriend who were eaten by grizzlys.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
You should get out some, ARM.


I do. It's not wilderness anymore. No place with GPS and cell phone or satellite phone coverage can reasonably be called wilderness. You can make a cell phone call from the slopes of Mount Everest these days. You should try thinking about what you say a little more or at least try to advance an argument with some facts.






eddie willers said...

The irony is that he could have gone to Milwaukee to bag his lion.

Diamondhead said...

Social media loves a good human hunt.

Coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Diamondhead said...

The government of Zimbabwe has been an accessory to countless lion (and human) murders over the years...it's like a murder for hire scheme where the hitman pays you.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Social media loves a good human hunt."

Best comment I've seen anywhere on the lion.

Sloanasaurus said...

Isn't Teddy Roosevelt a beloved leader and president by liberals in this country. But he was also a well known hunter of big game - known for his trophies. Certainly after this incident, liberals will have to abandon Teddy as they have done Andrew and Tom.

Lydia said...

Freeman asked: Why aren't people mad at the guide too?

Because the world is filled with anti-dentites.

As usual, Seinfeld got there first.

Michael said...

ARM

You surely aren't serious. There are thousands upon thousands of places on the planet where you would not last 48 hours with our without a satellite phone.

You could get lost and die in the Bob Marshall wilderness, in tens of thousands of square miles in northern Canada, in virtually any place in Greenland. You could never be found in Western Guyana, in Surinam, in southern Columbia, in huge, Texas sized, pieces of the Amazon.

Find a map of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Get one showing cell towers.

You might consider as well the battery life of your GPS and your recharging apparatus.

walter said...

Bob Boyd said...

Pro Tip: Never shoot anything with a first name.

Boom.

..and I also remember Fallon crying when Isis was running through Iraq putting heads on spikes. Oh..wait..

Tom said...

And all this time I thought "Bungalow Bill" was a mocking metaphor of the Americans in Viet Nam.

garage mahal said...

Bu Bu but what about Planned Parenthood????? Why aren't you mad about that?????

walter said...

Aw..c'mon G. PP is about mere clumps pf cells related to humanity. This was about a clump of cells related to lots of household pets.

But hard core vegans/vegetarians feel a little conflicted about the outrage...

n.n said...

If only the tens of millions babies had an effective agent to promote their name (e.g. Barack, Mary, Bobby, Michelle, or Cecil) and an emotionally appealing image, then perhaps they would have escaped torture and abortion for their "offense", and would not have their parts and tissue financing Planned Parenthood et al and clients' luxury offices, homes, and automobiles. Who cries for the human lives indiscriminately tortured, killed, and marketed by the abortionists, clients, and customers under the color of a pro-choice religious doctrine?

AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
You could get lost and die in the Bob Marshall wilderness


You could, but there is no need to. People die at sea, but there is almost no need to. Short term weather forecasting has become very accurate and you can access these forecasts 24/7 so there is no good reason to get caught out in truly terrible weather. If the boat starts sinking you can activate your EPIRB and, assuming you have prepared for the water temperature, you will probably survive long enough to be rescued. Complete idiots survive these days. People who seem to have a death wish often survive.

I'm not saying you can't die out there. I am saying that a well prepared person can stay in constant contact with civilization, will know exactly where they are, will know what weather to expect and can expect to get rescued reasonably quickly if things go seriously wrong. That is very different to the experience of either Columbus or Lewis and Clark, who were well prepared by the standards of the day.

There was a story of a guy freezing to death on Everest who rang his wife to say goodbye. He did manage to kill himself, by ignoring the weather forecast, but it is hard to say he was in a wilderness given that he had cell phone service.

Even in space you can ring Houston to report a problem. Columbus didn't have that option. Psychologically I think this is a vast change in our relationship to what was once wilderness. And, this ignores the fact that anywhere on the planet you can run into other people's trash, even in space.

walter said...

Aw, Jimmy!

Michael said...

ARM

You are correct. Where there is cell service you can talk to people and tell them goodbye. If your battery dies you cannot.

You are a romantic who believes this technology has ruined paradise. Try the Congo pal and get your family to tell us how it went for you.

You cannot "stay in constant contact with civilization" if there is no cell service or if the battery dies on your sat phone. Ditto if your boat pitch poles in the south Atlantic.

Gahrie said...

Bu Bu but what about Planned Parenthood????? Why aren't you mad about that?????

Garage, if this is the best you can do, you need to take some time off and heal. Take heart, if Walker wins, at least he won't be your governor anymore.....

Rusty said...


I do. It's not wilderness anymore. No place with GPS and cell phone or satellite phone coverage can reasonably be called wilderness. You can make a cell phone call from the slopes of Mount Everest these days. You should try thinking about what you say a little more or at least try to advance an argument with some facts.

Your definition of wilderness is cell phone coverage. My definition of wilderness is even if you have cell phone coverage nobody is going to get to you in time so you better prepare.
My BIL goes elk hunting in a place in Colorado above 10,000 feet. For the last three years there have only been 25 or 30 people that have been to that meadow and most of those were on horseback.

Paco Wové said...

Just FYI: there is no cell phone coverage on top of Mt. Everest. Satellite phone coverage, sure. I assume there's satellite phone coverage anywhere you can see the satellite.

Anyway, Shut up about Cecil the Lion, please.

AReasonableMan said...

Selfie video from top of Mount Everest using a HTC One

4G coverage on Mount Everest

Paco Wové said...

How about that.

Wasn't what Rob Hall had, though.

Michael said...

ARM

There is no cell coverage in the Amazon, in the Congo, in the Bob Marshall wilderness, in most parts of the eastern Soviet, most anywhere in the Andes, in Patagonia, in Antarctica, in much of Newfoundland, in eastern China, on the back side of Capitol Peak in Colorado, in the Cauca Valley of Columbia, and on and on and on.

You do know, too, that both cell and satellite telephones require battery power and that they do not work when the batteries run down? And that there are no outlets in the Congo?

You made some stupid statements. Admit it. Quit digging because you are not stupid but are beginning to look so.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
You do know, too, that both cell and satellite telephones require battery power and that they do not work when the batteries run down? And that there are no outlets in the Congo?


First of all there are many small portable phone chargers available, so this is an inconsequential point.

I can't really see what your issue is here. Most people recognize that the wilderness is just not that wild any more thanks to advances in technology. Satellite phones work everywhere. I am not saying that there is not some risk in these places compared to a walk in suburbia, but the level of risk and particularly the sense of isolation is greatly reduced compared to a century ago. This seems self-evident.

Michael said...

ARM

No one contends that there is no risk in these places compared to a walk in suburbia but you are the one who stated that

"The wild doesn't exist anymore on land."

This is a stupid statement, completely absurd. And if you think being able to call someone from the middle of the Congo with your satellite phone will change the conditions of whatever jam you have gotten yourself into you are an idiot on stilts. The technology does not eliminate the physical.

I gather you haven't spent much time in wild places.

AReasonableMan said...

I think you the lack imagination to understand the void that real adventurers faced back before telecommunications and GPS.

If your criteria for wilderness is that you may run into trouble then the south Bronx is a wilderness.


Michael said...

ARM

Gosh, ARM, I thought Columbus had GARMIN as he bounded across the main. Thanks for filling us in.

But remember, THE WILD DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE ON LAND

LOL

I spent a lot of time in wilderness areas before the invention of cell or sat phones. I have read extensive first person and historical accounts of explorers.

I think the one without imagination is the one who believes there are no more wild places on earth.

AReasonableMan said...

There are places where there are few humans but these are generally national parks or wildlife preserves or some other defined, managed area. Wildlife in these areas are often closely managed, like Palin's aerial wolf hunting. To quote:"Alaskans depend on wildlife for food and cultural practices which can't be sustained when predators are allowed to decimate moose and caribou populations our predator-control programs are scientific and successful at protecting vulnerable wildlife."

If this is your idea of a wilderness I'm not going to argue with you, but it is not mine. They are increasingly becoming glorified zoos, the number and types of wild-life adjusted to maximize the regions human utility.

Michael said...

ARM

I know you aren't stupid, you can't possibly be this stupid. Get Google Earth. Browse around.

Or be an abject idiot. Because you appear to be one on this topic.