March 19, 2015

"We know the facts, and when they come out, this city will erupt. This city will f-ing erupt."

"And the blood and whatever takes place after that will be on your hands and the mayor’s hands," said Brandi Grayson, the leader of the Young, Gifted and Black Coalition, at the Madison City Council meeting Tuesday night. She was addressing Police Chief Mike Koval, and the subject was the death of Tony Robinson.

The next morning Koval emailed the members of the council:

As the City has been through a lot over the past 10 days, an uneasy peace has settled in until we await the next seminal decision from the District Attorney’s Office. The tension on the streets is palpable and my officers are doing the best they can to remain pro-active and relational. Not an easy task given the various veiled and stark threats to police officers that have been made through various social media networks and on the streets. I have challenged my officers to stay true to our values, adhere to our training in situational awareness, and to resist the urge to adopt a “bunker” mindset. The women and men of MPD have done more than their share of risk taking for this community and it is high time you did yours!

In the course of a few days (from March 13-last night’s Common Council meeting), I have seen you muster to create a letter to the family of Tony Robinson as well as to hastily convene a public “hearing” for those who want to express their views. While the letter of condolences to the family of Tony Robinson was entirely appropriate (I did the same thing), there was no mention of support—either in that letter or in any corresponding letter which could have been circulated at the same time—acknowledging the exceptional steps taken by women and men of MPD in doing their part to maintain public safety while facilitating robust dissent. Last night, I sat patiently listening to people accusing MPD of everything from being sanctioned murderers to racists. Given the nature of the proceedings, I was left with no recourse to respond to any of these diatribes, falsehoods and shock value missives. One of my responsibilities is to defend those valued employees—sworn and non-sworn—that take pride in providing a premium service to the citizens and guests of our City. People can attack me all they want—I’m old and what service time I have left is not going to be deterred by fringe elements who foist themselves upon me with righteous indignation. But I have a duty to speak up when the good people who work for me have to contend with unchecked, unilateral attacks on them and the legacy of the MPD . . .and I failed them by not being able to go to bat for them under the constraints of the hearing protocols last night. In short, your collective silence is DEAFENING and that is why I chose to write to you today. Don’t think that I haven’t noticed or that my employees haven’t noticed—we have!

It is unacceptable for elected officials to remain silent while an institution like the MPD is sullied with drive-by disrespect. The practice of whispering in my ear in the hallways of the CCB, sending me a text, or giving me a phone call saying “Stay the course, Chief. We support you” won’t hack it anymore. You must be more public and more intentional about support for the MPD and our employees. Of course, if you don’t feel that way, stand down as we only want those who believe in the authenticity of our work to speak up. But at the end of the day, I am not an elected official who worries about my polling numbers—when this sort of reticence surfaces, there will be pushback from me.

While there were many various topics raised last night, the one substantive item that raised questions was the willingness to open up the MPD Policies and Procedures Manual for independent review. Have at it. Those substantive elements being discussed last night on the use of force are the same template used throughout the State of Wisconsin. At the outset, it should be noted that the overwhelming number of cases we respond to our resolved through presence and dialogue. Period. Given the ever-increasing violent nature of our society, we train diligently on the use of force. A plethora of time is given to non-lethal alternatives and tools. Deadly force training include countless reps of disengagement, movement, distance, and cover. Furthermore, we incorporate numerous training exercises where the outcome is predicated on “no shoot” outcomes. Graham v. Connor is the U.S. Supreme Court case that dictates what constitutes whether police used excessive force (the test is an objective one, that of “objective reasonableness.”). While we are always looking to adopt best practices in how use of force outcomes can be improved, we will not be departing from the same standards that govern police use of force across this state (and country). By the way, MPD has never had a “shoot to kill” mantra. . .

I would be happy to have the Public Safety Review Committee (PSRC) examine all of our policies to check for concerns that may lead to unintended consequences. Or, if there is a different entity that you would like to have review responsibilities, that would be fine with me as well.

I close with this. Police and citizens alike are expected to conform to rules. The decorum that I witnessed last night where certain people were allowed to trammel those rules with a gentle admonishment to respect the rights and minutes of others was laughable. My suggestion is that the rules of order should apply to everyone or those in non-compliance should incur the consequences. The hearing became a kangaroo court and while you don’t care what civics looks like on cable television, I do.
ADDED: Madison Magazine has a long interview with Brandi Grayson.

93 comments:

MadisonMan said...

Well said.

Unknown said...

Who should have addressed the Prez post Ferguson? (Like this, that is)

MadisonMan said...

To clarify: Well said, Chief.

Ms. Konkel has the luxury of being off the streets if she doesn't want to be on 'em.

The Chief is being a Leader. To repeat myself: Well Said.

Dave Schumann said...

"Given the ever-increasing violent nature of our society..."

Is there any evidence of this? Violent crime rates are lower than they've been for many decades. Police deaths are too, both in absolute and per-capita terms. What is actually more violent?

traditionalguy said...

Garage should be proud of his Unionized Police Department. They done good.

rhhardin said...

Too long.

surfed said...

Way to literate even given the college town setting. But kudos for saying what cowering bureaucrats rarely say - the truth.

David said...

In short, your collective silence is DEAFENING and that is why I chose to write to you today. Don’t think that I haven’t noticed or that my employees haven’t noticed—we have!

So Madison is ruled by moral cowards. What a surprise.

madAsHell said...

Maybe they failed to notice that's a half-black in the white house??

Big Mike said...

I think that opening up the training for review is a good thing. I've become concerned that police are getting the message that it's a dangerous world out there, and they have to defend themselves utterly without hesitation.

Well they do have to defend themselves, but how quickly and with what force? The video of the killing of a schizophrenic black man that CNN was running (and running and running) on Ashleigh Banfield's show today did not depict the man making an aggressive move towards the police. The Dallas police followed their training, and the Madison police presumably did the same, but maybe we should reexamine that training.

Today on a different thread I pointed out that young white men are receiving the same sort of treatment. Harangues by the black community in Madison to the contrary, this is not "white police slaughtering black men" because white police are acting the same way towards young white males who are schizophrenic and carrying a screwdriver or walking with friends and not reacting to the officers' orders quickly enough.

Despite ARM's efforts on a different thread to suggest that policing isn't a particularly dangerous occupation, police officers are more likely to have to make life or death, shoot/don't shoot, decisions rapidly and correctly. Like our military, they rely on their training to help them reach the right decision literally in a heartbeat. My concern is that perhaps that training is letting down both them and the community they serve.

And I write this knowing that it's a tough job and the decision to hold fire might have fatal consequences for the officer or a fellow officer. But I'm looking at the Robinson case, the case of the young boy in Cleveland shot for holding a pellet gun and not dropping it fast enough when ordered, the man shopping in WalMart shot without warning after picking up a pellet gun he apparently planned to buy as a present, and numerous other cases. I don't think those deaths are indicative of good cops who've received good training. So if the cops are good, then their training needs to be revisited and now is not too soon.

Original Mike said...

What facts are Ms. Grayson referring to?

MayBee said...

Well said, Police Chief.

And I'm with Original Mike. I find it amusing to think Ms Grayson knows some facts that she simply is not at liberty to discuss. For whatever reason.

MayBee said...

There's obviously a movement afoot to focus on
a) any black person shot or hurt by a police officer, whatever the circumstances
and
b) any bad behavior by a white fraternity member anywhere in the country.

These are the things occupying our news rooms right now. These are the things the SJW are ready to fight for.

FullMoon said...

Dave Schumann said... [hush]​[hide comment]

"Given the ever-increasing violent nature of our society..."

Is there any evidence of this? Violent crime rates are lower than they've been for many decades. Police deaths are too, both in absolute and per-capita terms. What is actually more violent?


Good one Dave!

Phil 3:14 said...

How about a cup of coffee?

Phil 3:14 said...

How about a cup of coffee?

Curious George said...

"traditionalguy said...
Garage should be proud of his Unionized Police Department. They done good."

garage has totally ignored these posts. As has most of the left.

Ann Althouse said...

I'm deleting off topic comments. There is a cafe post for all topics, and the Napolitano topic has its own frontpage post.

deepelemblues said...

"Despite ARM's efforts on a different thread to suggest that policing isn't a particularly dangerous occupation, police officers are more likely to have to make life or death, shoot/don't shoot, decisions rapidly and correctly."

Every day, any given police department has to deal with multiple situations where its officers are expected to either protect someone from someone else, or take control of a situation between two people or two groups of people so it doesn't escalate into violence or further violence. Just because they are rather good at doing those things doesn't mean that they aren't facing particularly dangerous situations daily, something those of ARM's ilk either don't understand or don't want to acknowledge.

Mark said...

No one should be surprised when people (the left) constantly pour gasoline on the fire that a roaring flame should erupt that engulfed the people doing the pouring.
No one should be surprised either when the finger of racism, etc. gets pointed at arrogant progressives (rightly) and they protest and protest how good they are and they could never be racist.
Madison reaps what it sows.

Michael K said...

"What is actually more violent?"

Rhetoric and the incitement to violence being heard in these settings. There used to be a practice in England that was called "Reading the Riot Act" to crowds.

The Act created a mechanism for certain local officials to make a proclamation ordering the dispersal of any group of more than twelve people who were "unlawfully, riotously, and tumultuously assembled together". If the group failed to disperse within one hour, then anyone remaining gathered was guilty of a felony without benefit of clergy, punishable by death.

It might be interesting except that politicians are all cowards.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

"And the blood and whatever takes place after that will be on your hands and the mayor’s hands," said Brandi Grayson

I'm trying to parse her statement and its intent here: is she implying that if the mayor and Police Chief had taken some action (or would now take some action) that riots could be prevented, or at the very least that they would be less culpable for any such riots? Or is she saying that the shooting was really the mayor and Chief's fault so once the facts come out the inevitable riot will also be their fault?
At the "hearing," what action did Grayson want the chief and mayor to take (immediately)?

Lem said...

Obamas ISIS. Let them blow off some steam. But the police chief would not have it.

Excellent.

Lem said...

"I'm deleting off topic comments."

We know the facts, and when they come out, this blog will erupt ;)

William said...

I don't think Brandi Grayson will be publicly criticized for her inflammatory remarks. They're pretty stupid. She will not be criticized, and the remarks will not be widely reported. If. on the other hand, the police chief should ever express frustration or anger in a non pc way, then his career is over and Obama will denounce him from the White House.

wildswan said...

Perhaps it should be required by law that the city hall guys should have to travel with police officers, should embed with them for several week, so that they get a feel for the danger and the need for quick decisions. I really think we should embed politicians with the police because politicians are getting so unrealistic.

Maybe we should absolutely require bureaucrats and politicians to live in public housing for awhile on welfare amounts of money. Maybe we should require teachers union executives and community organizers to go work in schools after they implement new regulations like the school lunch programs and not allowing disruptive students to be ejected from classes. And film them in class and on the streets and how they handle it.

If they know how to handle it all - that's good because that is needed knowledge.

JCCamp said...

@ Dave Schumann -

It looks like that, although the violent crimes (in Madison) fluctuate year to year from loss to gain and back again, the 2013 violent crimes are generally up in Madison, 2013 being the last year for which UCR numbers are available for specific cities.
So, regarding the Madison jurisdiction, that for which the letter writer is responsible, in fact he is accurate.

And generally, violent crime, while lower in some respects in many places, is not "....lower than they've been for many decades..." For example, reported rapes are almost universally higher by double digits in the last 2 reporting cycles. In addition, there is serious (but anecdotal) evidence that many of the larger agencies are engaging in somewhat...creative records-keeping, resulting in paper-shrinkage not matched by the actual cadavers in the local morgue. (Chicago again leading the way in this regard)

So, you somewhat diminish your argument that the Chief was guilty of hyperbole in his letter ('letter' in the sense that the 47 senators wrote the head mullah-what's-in-charge a letter) by engaging in a little poetic license of your own.

Chuck said...

The Chief sure likes his metaphors.

rcommal said...

Wow. I’m not sure what to say. More tomorrow. This is a glimpse into the bullying tactics of the police department with the elected officials.

Wow. That ^ (above) is some bullshit, and I am entirely sure in saying what I just said.

Chef Mojo said...

Good statement by the Chief, but only "good."

It has to be very clear that the police department's first duty is to the citizens it serves, but never at the expense of the lives of the members of the police department. Period. End of story. Those police are also citizens of Madison, not to belabor the obvious, not dirty dish rags to be tossed away when the shit turns south.

rcommal said...

How about a cup of coffee?"

"How about a nice game of chess?"?

jr565 said...

He should run for president.

jr565 said...

So when the lady talking about how the city will burn talks about facts coming out is she referring to Tony Robinson taking psychedelic mushrooms that day by himself and beign out his mind hallucinating? and supposedly acting violently?

rcommal said...

Chief Mojo: Never? That's a very big word. Are you sure that you mean that? In all circumstances? Take the political and the politicized out of it, and consider what you just wrote. Are you sure that you meant "never" as an absolute value?

chickelit said...

Can anyone confirm whether Grayson is the woman who took the bullhorn from Robinson's grieving grandmother just after the shooting and admonished Madisonians to release young black men from prisons -- or else?

Video link here, scroll down.

That kind of rhetoric and incitement of violence is exactly what the people of Madison need to stand firmly against.

It's bullshit race-baiting!

chickelit said...

Grayson singlehandedly takes the meaning of "Gifted" back to the original German meaning: "Gift" = "poison."

rcommal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcommal said...

Chief Mojo:

And have you actually thought all the way through the stance, including the implications of it, that you just took?

NotquiteunBuckley said...

I've learned you can plot to bomb my dad and then go sell hotdogs as a local boy done good in Madison.

I wonder what Madison-area residents have learned?

How many Bill Ayers lie-in-waiting there? Are the Ten Fat Tigers still conspiring to murder Wisconinites?

Are we about to find out if White Girl Bleed A Lot again in Wisconsin?

I don't know any MPD that I know of, but I've known Dane County Deps, and I wouldn't mess with them, and that was before they knew where to bury the bodies.

You pay me $17,258 per month and I will solve this all; it's been written before by men better than me. But your idiocy requires regurgitation repetition-ally.

That being said, and this is off-tract, I apologize for my drunken selfishness and am dedicated to focusing more on the topics at hand and the wonderfulness of the opinions I am exposed to here. It's my reactions that are most enlightening.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Please, try to pay attention Mr. Mason."

"I'll do my best."

Perry Mason, with a knowing nod from the sex-object, err secretary or stenographer or something.

chickelit said...

Can't anybody confirm or deny whether the Grayson woman at the City Council meeting was the woman with the bullhorn inciting race riots from the get go?

Anyone?

Come on you city of Buellers!

rcommal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcommal said...

Chief Mojo: Don't be--even accidentally or inadvertently--like that "Forward Lookout" poster. She posted a ridiculous thing for manipulative, theatrical reasons. It was purposeful and targeted, coldly calculated. I think you wrote what you wrote out of powerful emotion, and thus it was simply ill-considered, in the moment.

At least, I hope so.

rcommal said...

Brenda Konkel's got a list of good people in Madison (WI), and Brandi Grayson's on it.

How easy it is to do this sort of thing, innit.

chickelit said...

Who is Brenda Konkel?

I'm still waiting for someone to answer (or even acknowledge) my 11;22 PM question.

What is it...fear?

Ken B said...

Am I the only one who thinks she sees young, gifted, black as accolades she's earned?

Eric said...

...said Brandi Grayson, the leader of the Young, Gifted and Black Coalition...

If you have to tell people you're "gifted"... you're probably not.

Quaestor said...

There's a lot of simmering anger in between the lines, that's obvious. And it probably accounts for stylistic and factual lapses. Haste and anger will do that. As has been noted by others the Chief's complaint about the ever-increasing violent nature of our society is factually wrong. The statistics compiled by the FBI are unequivocal. Violent crime has been trending downward for years, how Chief Koval could be ignorant of this trend is hard to account for. He could be referring to a trend, more anecdotal than statistical, of more unexpected violence -- routine traffic stops ending a gunplay, more first-time domestic disturbance calls involving weapons and savage beatings, etc. That is to say fewer instances of violence, but what does occur is often more deadly and less psychologically coherent. This may have to do with the trending psychiatric out-patient, and the wider use of "recreational drugs" among the upper middle class.

A plethora of time is given to non-lethal alternatives and tools. He implies the opposite of the point he wants to make. The man needs an editor.

Women and men. Chief Koval used that formulation twice. Very fashionable, but the vast majority of officers wheeled out of crime scenes in body bags are men. Until there’s gender parity on the casualty lists the rank and file prefer the traditional phrase.

Graham v. Connor is the U.S. Supreme Court case that dictates what constitutes whether police used excessive force (the test is an objective one, that of “objective reasonableness.”) Objective reasonableness? That’s a mysterious concept. Perhaps someone will explain it to me.

I sat patiently listening to people accusing MPD of everything from being sanctioned murderers to racists. Here's an example of the Chief's rhetoric running away with his argument. From murderers to racists? The from-to syntax implies an ordering, in this case an escalation. Is racism really worse than murder? I presume most people would rather be alive and suffer racist insults than be murdered. Besides, depending on the source being labeled a racist could to be worn as a badge of honor, frankly. It often means one has the right kind of enemies. This must be particularly true in a college town like Madison, where professional race mongers enjoy secure, upscale lifestyles.

Sitting patiently while being prosecuted by a kangaroo court, and that so-called public hearing was nothing else, is the wrong tactic. It’s always fatal. Just ask Bukharin and Rakovski. He should have never agreed to attend. Elected officials always overestimate their own influence. Consequently their urge to pour oil on troubled waters by an airing of grievances in a public forum is both irresistible and nearly always disastrous. These things always end like a Contanza family Festivus. A wise man avoids the monkey house when the feces fly.

Overall a less than completely effective effort. Chief Koval’s sentiments are heartfelt and noble, but his poise and command of rhetoric fall short. He should seek the advice of a seasoned campaigner against race hustling demagogy. Milwaukee’s David Clarke comes readily to min

Kirk Parker said...

deepelemblue,

Far be it from me to defend ARM, but the fact is that patrol officer is FAR from the most dangerous occupation in the US. Plenty of agriculture, fishing, and construction job categories have higher rates of on-the-job fatalities--some of them WAY higher.

rcommal said...

chickelit:

If you'd followed the link in the original post, you'd know who brenda konkel is, even if that's the first time you'd heard tell of her.

rcommal said...

Wait: Does this mean, chickelit, that you don't follow links? Much less links from/to?

If so/if not, then: Why on earth would you expect me to follow your trail/lead?

Terry said...

I would have a lot more respect for the Black community if they would just take matters into their own hands instead of begging white liberals to do it for them.

rcommal said...

chickelit:

Race-baiting is ubiquitous these days. Everybody's doing it. That's my take on the situation. I find it all extremely shallow and profoundly despicable, not to mention depressing to the point of immobility. Does that sufficiently address whatever the hell it is for which you're demanding acknowledgment?

rcommal said...

Race-baiting is the new dance-craze, to borrow an old marketing phrase.

Ain't that the truth?

C'mon now: Innit? Wow!

Lonetown said...

The silence is the deer in the headlights look libs get when they find out their policies suck.

rcommal said...

And the running out of a deer in front of a speeding vehicle is the result of realizing that the hard lines of both libs and cons suck. More important, not only are both of their policy lines shit, but those policy lines rely on the insufferable notion that their followers don't know shit from shinola, to coin yet another phrase from back in the day. So to speak.

averagejoe said...

Well, Koval is at least partly to blame for the deteriorating situation and alienation of the police force. He's the one whose first public statement was to assure protesters that they would have no limits on their wishes to publicly gather and disturb the peace, and incite to riot. He was the one who announced the name of the officer involved, thereby endangering him, his family and all Madison police officers despite the example of what had been unjustly done to officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson. And now that Koval has allowed the cop-haters and race-baiters to whip themselves into a frenzy, he's lashing out and calling for help from the very same chickenshits complicit in his attempted appeasement of the blood-thirsty mob. He sowed the seeds and now he stands to reap the whirlwind.

Laslo Spatula said...

Meanwhile, the Young, Gifted and Asian Coalition released the statement "Get your shit together, people," then resumed their studies.

I am Laslo.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Why don't Madison politicians publicly support the Madison police? Because they don't privately support the police. Their expressions of support are expressions of personal support for Koval and NOT a reflection of trust, confidence or support for the police in any general sense. Madison politicians largely believe, "the police" are racist.

glenn said...

Dear Madison Wisconsin

You made your bed. Now sleep in it.

Bobber Fleck said...

Another situation that has mushroomed out of control.

SGT Ted said...

Go ahead and keep shitting on your police. It will turn out well, I am sure.

MaxedOutMama said...

I can't know all that's been happening in Madison, but the report of the council meeting is disturbing, and seems to indicate that Madison hasn't handled this well. Officials seem to have stoked the fire instead of containing it.

The cited speaker was terribly unwise.

In no city or municipality is it a good thing to terrify the police with such rhetoric. They will turn to protecting themselves.

We might save more lives by having public officials reiterate, over and over again, that if you attack a police officer at close range you are likely to get shot, that police officers do have the legal right to protect themselves, and that it is unreasonable to demand changes until the facts are known.

When I was growing up, everyone's parents used to tell their kids something like that.

If we are telling people to get upset every time someone is shot whether it was reasonable or not, and indeed before any of the facts are known, we are going to cause a lot of structural problems and additional violence. It will also be much harder to curb unreasonable violence.

I'm sorry this is happening in your home town, Ann and Meade. Very sorry.

SGT Ted said...

Black racists are threatening riots if they don't get their way and the white guy isn't jailed.

What the police chief said in his email is the truth.

The Drill SGT said...

Kirk Parker said...

Far be it from me to defend ARM, but the fact is that patrol officer is FAR from the most dangerous occupation in the US. Plenty of agriculture, fishing, and construction job categories have higher rates of on-the-job fatalities--some of them WAY higher.


As I said on the other thread, Policing isn't as deadly as some other occupations, but it is likely more stressful.

One minute your going into a 7-11 lookin to by some twinkies, the next minute you see the guy behind the counter staring at a 12 gauge held by a thug as it pivots toward you...

Just as infantry duty is:

"Days of boredom, punctuated by minutes of shear terror"



PS: Well said Chief. Your betters are leftists and/or cowards.



JCCamp said...

@ Kirk Parker -

"Plenty of agriculture, fishing, and construction job categories have higher rates of on-the-job fatalities...."

But apparently, none of them have higher rates of on-the-job injuries (requiring missing days of work, per the Bureau of Labor Statistics). So, is the danger of the job defined only by the likelihood of death (as a rate, not a raw number), or would being injured count too?

You really shouldn't buy into statistics being manipulated in lieu of common sense. For instance, being a flight engineer is more dangerous than being a cop? Are you buying that? Really?

The Drill SGT said...

There is some irony in the way that the Democratic party is becoming far more anti-police.

Police are quintessential blue collar, Junior College working guys. Infantrymen with no passports. These guys, and regardless, its mostly guys used to be second generation immigrants, moving on up. Folks who voted Democratic.

In towns like Madison, I suspect they are mostly white rural lads. Regardless, the new democratic party, made up of elites and the poor, has little love or respect for police. Madison Pols are either minorities, Leftists or both...And it shows. As SGT Ted says, that will have consequences...

Though the quotes below from Orwell and Heinlein are about my beloved soldiers, they sum up my feelings about the thin blue line that keeps us safe.

Gentle folk sleep peacefully in their beds, because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

The most noble fate a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the war's desolation


PS: That last quote owes a lot to the 4th stanza of the National Anthem...

"Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand/Between their loved home and the war's desolation!"

MaxedOutMama said...

Ann and Meade - I have greatly enjoyed your local coverage, but it's time to stay out of the action for a while.

Creedence Clearwater has some excellent advice for you:
https://youtu.be/4YlTUDnsWMo

Bill M said...

Brandi Grayson threatens a riot if results are not to her liking. Then, says the chief is responsible. If she crosses that line, she is responsible and someone should tell her.

David Hampton said...

The Chief was correct. Our society, empowered by the race baiters from POTUS, Holder, Al Sharpton, and George Soros funded agitators across the country, is under siege. Those who deny the increased violence percolating in the usual venues across the country have not been paying attention. Latest outrage is the Berkeley Blacks who want a building named after a cop killer who is some sort of hero to the militant anarchists (Black Panthers?). Shades of the 60's and 70's haunting us.

chickelit said...

rcommal said...
chickelit:

If you'd followed the link in the original post, you'd know who brenda konkel is, even if that's the first time you'd heard tell of her.

3/20/15, 1:42 AM
rcommal said...
Wait: Does this mean, chickelit, that you don't follow links? Much less links from/to?

If so/if not, then: Why on earth would you expect me to follow your trail/lead?

3/20/15, 1:46 AM<


@rcommal: I looked at your damn link last night and again this morning when I woke up. I still don't see the relevance.

On the other hand, I was simply just asking whether someone could positively ID a person who is the subject of this blog post.

There are many people "race-baiting" out there as you stated. But there are very very few grabbing bullhorns at scenes of crimes and stoking fires. I think it's important to connect the two dots: (1) Grayson and (2) the woman in the video.

I'm truly sorry if you think that is a waste of time.

wildswan said...

In Ferguson there was an intent to raise money to run the city through revenue collection by an escalation of fines for petty offenses. And the blacks were most often victims of the policy.

The revenue policy existed because the sales tax was not raising enough money. - the DOJ report mentions this. Burning 27 businesses probably has not helped this root cause. Moreover, the value of houses in Ferguson has fallen from 60,000 to 22,000 since the riots meaning that the school system and everything else dependent on that tax is in deep trouble.

This is what called a death spiral. The only means of revenue collection left is using the police to arrest and fine citizens and the poorest who can't afford lawyers are the easiest targets but then they riot and the final result is drastically less revenue and resignation of all financial officers.

But is Madison in such a spiral? It's the head of government in Wisconsin and government has actually increased its share of employment. The housing market is getting better there. So why would government be oppressing people with revenue-raising fines?

Easy, anyhow to find out if government is doing the Ferguson thing. The mayor tells the police to completely stop collecting fines for small offenses while he looks to see if these fines are supporting a collapsing sales tax or housing market and also if they are disproportionately being collected among blacks.

If the fines turn out to be needed then resume but collect them among the students and government workers. Concentrate the police revenue efforts in those areas. They can afford it and they will be public spirited about it. I'm sure.

Sloanasaurus said...

I read that home values in Ferguson have declined 50% since the riots. Of course much of this was the result of people who don't live there coming to cause trouble. It would be sad if something similar happened to Madison.

RonF said...

"Moreover, the value of houses in Ferguson has fallen from 60,000 to 22,000 since the riots meaning that the school system and everything else dependent on that tax is in deep trouble."

I don't know how it works in Wisconsin, but in Illinois this doesn't work the way you may think it does.

Here in the country's most corrupt State, all the various units of government take public comments on their budgets. Then they ignore those comments and set them to what they figure they can get away with. Those numbers are added together, divided by the total property value in the taxing districts, and that's the rate. The rate is then multiplied by your property value to get the property tax you pay.

What that means is that the amount of money collected by the government does not fall if property values fall. And the amount of money you pay in taxes does not fall if your property values fall iff everyone else's falls proportionately.

damikesc said...

My, progressive Madison is super, duper racist.

White guilt has worked out so well.

Sad thing is, A LOT of conservatives have serious reservations about how the police do their job.

The whackjob protestors kill that dead, though.

RonF said...

Unless, of course, there's a cap on the tax rates (or a cap on how fast they can rise), or things get so desperate that people abandon their properties and don't pay taxes. Which Ferguson may well see happen.

cubanbob said...

Kirk Parker said...
deepelemblue,

Far be it from me to defend ARM, but the fact is that patrol officer is FAR from the most dangerous occupation in the US. Plenty of agriculture, fishing, and construction job categories have higher rates of on-the-job fatalities--some of them WAY higher.

3/20/15, 1:24 AM"

Irrelevant. The occupations you list maybe more dangerous in terms of injuries or deaths but those are the result of accidents and not from intentional acts of violence.

AReasonableMan said...

cubanbob said...
Irrelevant. The occupations you list maybe more dangerous in terms of injuries or deaths but those are the result of accidents and not from intentional acts of violence.


This is such BS. If you die on the job it doesn't make much difference how it happened you are still dead. A wide range of professions are more dangerous than being a cop. This is not even close to being controversial.

SDN said...

One thing that has been effective in a couple of cities is to invite the local race hustlers to go through the same "shoot / don't shoot" training and course that the cops go through. After they've come out with a substantial body count and or eligibility for a funeral, they tend to apologize and shut up.

Kirk Parker said...

"We might save more lives by having public officials reiterate, over and over again, that if you attack a police officer at close range you are likely to get shot, that police officers do have the legal right to protect themselves,"

Close, but no cigar. The last thing we need is more making police into Special People™ instead of the proper, Peelian view that "To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."

So instead, let's have public officials reiterate that if you attack anyone at close range you are putting yourself in jeopardy of having legitimate self-defense used against you.



JCCamp,

Surely you aren't advocating for intuition over data, but that's kind of what it sounds like.

Curious George said...

And still no garage. He's avoiding this topic like it had the clap.

lemondog said...

I'm curious how Madison local news outlets are depicting the shooting and MPD.

Video: Madison City Council meeting 3/17

At 31.50 min moment of silence followed by general public comments. First white haired lady saying people should shut up until the facts are known, next white lady calling MPD racist, Madisonians as white privileged, and others, then Brandi at 57 min.... she knows the facts, will be non-indictment..We Are Ferguson....

FullMoon said...

Chickelit said... [

Who is Brenda Konkel?

I'm still waiting for someone to answer (or even acknowledge) my 11;22 PM question.

What is it...fear?


I followed the link to Brendas blog last night. There were no comments, so I made the first one, using an innocuos alias(I got a million of 'em).

Still the only comment there. So lonely.

TCR James said...

I think this situation could be improved by requiring the baristas at Starbucks in and around Madison to goad customers into discussing it.

Curious George said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Curious George said...

"lemondog said...
I'm curious how Madison local news outlets are depicting the shooting and MPD.

Video: Madison City Council meeting 3/17"

It's hard to understand just how psychotic lefties are until you see them in action. The UW Prof who you mention (second speaker)...whacko.

Gusty Winds said...

"The practice of whispering in my ear in the hallways of the CCB, sending me a text, or giving me a phone call saying “Stay the course, Chief. We support you” won’t hack it anymore.

What a bunch of two-faced cowardly Tom Keefer's.

Jeff Hall said...

It would never have occurred to me to pity the lot of a Madison city councilor. But if prissy entitled snowflakes like Brandi Grayson and Chief Koval are typical of what they have to put up with, then my heart goes out to them.

chickelit said...

I just watched the City Council Minutes comments linked by lemondog, including the remarks by Brandi Grayson. To answer my own question from last night, I don't think that was Brandi Grayson on the bullhorn the night of the shooting -- though both women self identify as being part of BYG.

rcommal said...

rcommal said...

[Re:]"Wow. I’m not sure what to say. More tomorrow. This is a glimpse into the bullying tactics of the police department with the elected officials."

[This:] "Wow. That ^ (above) is some bullshit, and I am entirely sure in saying what I just said".
3/19/15, 10:45 PM

rcommal said...

Thank you, lemondog.

ken in tx said...

Nice little town you've got there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Char Char Binks said...

Grayson knows the facts. Her wisdom receptors are full of that good truth-giving melanin.