March 21, 2015

At the Madison mayoral debate, the crowd chanted "Indict, convict, send those killer cops to jail, the whole damn system is guilty as hell."

"Thursday night's mayoral debate between incumbent Paul Soglin and challenger Scott Resnick was marked by sharp hostility -- both between the candidates, and the candidates and the crowd," Isthmus reports.

When Resnick said "We need to come together in this community," there was laughter.

Soglin tried: "I find it very, very difficult to address this subject in the context of a mayoral debate, of the context of some of the anger in this room.... The larger concern in the community, where parents are concerned about well-being of children, we're all concerned about our neighbors."

The crowd shouted him down — "What about Tony?" — and Soglin sat down without finishing.

I don't know who to vote for in the mayoral election. How does one decide between Resnick and Soglin? Some people are deciding based on their different positions on — of all things — Uber, as Larry Kaufmann explains here:
Leading the charge is Mayor Paul Soglin, who treats Uber as if it were the spawn of Satan, or at least the Koch brothers. The Paul Soglin for Mayor website describes Uber as a "company headed by a devotee of Ayn Rand" that makes "conscious decisions to destroy full-time jobs." The mayor likens Uber to a "new form of serfdom," which might be accurate if medieval serfs used smartphone apps and complex, back-end routing algorithms to find rides to their masters' fields.

His mayoral challenger, Scott Resnick, takes a different view. The first item on his campaign's site declares that Uber, Lfyt and other ridesharing firms "are here and they are not going away." Resnick believes cutting-edge ridesharing technology can help "devise innovative solutions that meet our city's transportation needs." Nevertheless, he wishes to load a number of regulations onto Uber and similar firms that currently apply to taxis, including licensing by the city, background checks on drivers, insurance requirements and restrictions on "surge" pricing during high-demand times.
Keep Uber out or let it in but regulate the hell out of it.  That's the choice in Madison, Wisconsin. I'm thinking of protest-voting, writing in the name Mike Koval.

139 comments:

Paco Wové said...

the crowd chanted "Indict, convict, send those killer cops to jail, the whole damn system is guilty as hell."

Did they make it rhyme?

Mark said...

"Keep Uber or let it in but regulate the hell out of it."

Which is why some people see the Republican party the same as the Democrat part.

Laslo Spatula said...

Sounds like voting for mayor in Seattle. Can't I just have a candidate that fixes the damned potholes in all the roads? Once you have that done take a vacation, you've earned it.

I am Laslo.

Tank said...

Paco Wové said...

the crowd chanted "Indict, convict, send those killer cops to jail, the whole damn system is guilty as hell."

Did they make it rhyme?


In Wisconsin Jail rhymes with Hell.

Original Mike said...

"Which is why some people see the Republican party the same as the Democrat part."

Which one is the Republican, Soglin or Resnick?

Ann Althouse said...

They're all Democrats.

Original Mike said...

Sarcasm doesn't work on-line.

Original Mike said...

Scott Resnick is 28 years old.

Skipper said...

Good old Madison, the Havana wanna-be.

David said...

I used Uber several times in San francisco last week. I always asked the drivers if they liked working at Uber. The answers were uniform enthusiastic "yes." It was the opposite of serfdom in their opinion. What they liked most is that they had control over how and when they worked.

So don't vote for Soglin because he's a ignorant fool? Or just because his time has long since passed.

Blue Ox said...

"Keep Uber or let it in but regulate the hell out of it."

Shouldn't that be "Keep Uber OUT"?

I don't think the guy calling them the spawn of Satan is arguing on their behalf.

Drago said...

Soglin: "I find it very, very difficult to address this subject in the context of a mayoral debate, of the context of some of the anger in this room..."

This is what democracy looks like.

Laslo Spatula said...

Vote "Laslo Spatula." I would even move there. If I win.

I am laslo.

Curious George said...

"What about Tony?" — and Soglin sat down without finishing.

Pretty much like garage. What to do? Admit to being racist? Or be called a racist? Or just sit down.


MadisonMan said...

I vote against the incumbent. Soglin should not be Mayor for life. I think new leadership, even if it's the same-old same-old, is warranted, always.

Curious George said...

Another post that garage will avoid like it has the clap.

Lyle said...

Manifest Leftism in all its glory.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

There are big problems with one party rule. If the Madison cops are racists, they are the racist police controlled by the Left.

EDH said...

One more example where Democrats, particularly in Democrat bastions, are much more likely to cleave or be torn asunder by their own ranks than the much predicted Republican melt-down.

Drago said...

Why is it that when I read "Tony" I hear "Ant-ny"?

Curious George said...

"Indict, convict, send those killer cops to jail, the whole damn system is guilty as hell."

Gifted.

Big Mike said...

Go ahead, kiddies, riot. Burn Madison to the frickin' ground. The rest of us want to see how Walker would handle the situation.

(Chief Koval, please have your officers channel the rioters over towards the UW-Mad dormitories as a much-needed learning experience for the students.)

Quaestor said...

Write yourself in, Ann. Koval has his hands full already with a job he's trained to do. Meade might write you in as well, if you're nice to him. That's two protest votes -- twice the impact of one.

WRITE IN ANN ALTHOUSE!

Steve Uhr said...

Koval great choice. In addition to his recent leadership he was one of the best Bucky Badgers ever.

Ann Althouse said...

"Shouldn't that be "Keep Uber OUT"?"

Thanks for spotting that. Fixed now.

Curious George said...

Mayor? Isn't it the Grand Wizard?

Original Mike said...

"I think new leadership, even if it's the same-old same-old, is warranted, always."

That kind of thinking got us President Obama. I can't vote for a 28 year old progressive mayor.

Ann Althouse said...

"Write yourself in, Ann..."

That wouldn't be polite.

Also, I would hate to hold any elected office.

William said...

I would guess that even in Madison there must be a sizable voting bloc that is supportive of law and order. Why is there not a candidate to represent such a position? The love that dare not speak its name.

madAsHell said...

I have used Uber in Seattle. The drivers are committed to keeping their Cadillac SUV's working...and making money.

It's a disruptive technology. It's disrupting the stream of funds from the taxi company, and into the politician's pockets.

Quaestor said...

Also, I would hate to hold any elected office.

Duty calls. Destiny awaits.

madAsHell said...

"Keep Uber or let it in but regulate the hell out of it."

Oddly, I think we got it right. The city council forced the taxi companies to adopt the Uber business model. "Tap the app" is displayed on all the yellow cabs.

Steve Uhr said...

Soglin claims Uber doesn't do adequate background checks on drivers.

Before his timely passing, terrorist/murderer/buddy of Soglin Dwight Armstrong was a driver for Union Cab. Also on their Board.

rehajm said...

The only people who like Uber are Uber customers and Uber drivers.

Drago said...

Steve Uhr: "Before his timely passing, terrorist/murderer/buddy of Soglin Dwight Armstrong was a driver for Union Cab. Also on their Board."

Terrorism in support of leftism is apparently "no vice".

traditionalguy said...

Being Mayor of MAdison sounds like a roller coaster thrill ride. Retired test pilots should run for the job, and then they can buzz the City Hall in their Stunt Planes with smoke trailing out the back.

n.n said...
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n.n said...
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n.n said...
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n.n said...

The cost of "diversity" is a race to the lowest common denominator. This will become a routine feature of American society as indoctrination and excessive (e.g. rate) immigration disrupt established political, economic, cultural, and religious (i.e. moral) standards. That said, throwing another baby on the barby will only delay the consequences of unreconciled principles.

Richard Dolan said...

The lefty lunatics regularly elected to office in NYC (also all Dems) usually find themselves constrained by economic reality. It helps to have a powerful business community pushing back against the craziness, and a state gov't that knows it has to keep the local loons under control before the kill the lovely goose laying the golden eggs paying for all their leftiness. Perhaps Madison lacks that counterweight, and being dominated by an academic institution, is stuck with a bunch of uber-lefty lunatics instead.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Why is it that when I read "Tony" I hear "Ant-ny"?


As we have explained many times in the past, it's because you are a fucking idiot.


Michael K said...

"Chief Koval, please have your officers channel the rioters over towards the UW-Mad dormitories as a much-needed learning experience for the students."

And have them stop by ARM's house on the way.

Spread the pain.

AJ Lynch said...

Tony was all f-ed up drugs when he was shot right? So why is he still some kind of martyr & poor victim to the protestors?

garage mahal said...

"Pretty much like garage. What to do? Admit to being racist? Or be called a racist? Or just sit down"

Glad I'm living rent free inside your head.

Lem said...

I would guess the pro Uber candidate was the more "progressive" of the two?

Curious George said...

" garage mahal said...
"Pretty much like garage. What to do? Admit to being racist? Or be called a racist? Or just sit down"

Glad I'm living rent free inside your head."

haha Sure garage. Still waiting for your answer, that you insisted would come. Maybe after your down ironing your white sheet?

Wilbur said...

Like W.C. Fields, I always vote against a candidate. Never for.

MadisonMan said...

@Original Mike, the kind of thinking that got us Obama was Let's nominate a tired Senator as our Candidate.

 garage mahal said...

Write in Tom Hagen.

Quaestor said...

Lots of cabbies own their hacks. What's to stop a cabbie quitting his association with his cab company and becoming an Uber driver? What does a cabbie get from his contract with a cab company? Not much more than dispatch services and a group liability insurance. What the cabbie provides is the meat of the deal -- the knowledge of addresses, routes, traffic conditions, etc. and of course the vehicle, it's maintenance, fuel etc. Uber fills in the cab company's end of the deal and charges less.

The opposition to Uber is an example of a perfect storm of greed and Tammany Hall politics, not just greed for money, greed for power. The Teamsters fear the loss of unionized cabbies to Uber's classic laissez-faire capitalism. Fewer cabbies means fewer dues-paying union members. Fewer dues paid mean less money available to the Teamsters to influence corruptible politicians, who in turn fear the loss of graft. The cab companies, whose antiquated business model hasn't changed in its essence in a century, fears loss of income, so they become allies with erstwhile antagonists.

Uber's peer-to-peer model of matching service providers to service seekers could be applied to many other economic activities beside ridesharing, and it has, and it will undoubtedly spread and expand into areas we can't anticipate. The model will mutate and evolve into something as profound as steam power was to the economies of the 18th century Europe. Trying to predict the course of that evolution is futile, but what is clear is its potential to transform the paradigms of labor and management.

Marxist has failed, but it's not dead. It's still twitching spasmodically. Organized Labor and its minions still hawks the threadbare image of the downtrodden worker, the industrial proletarian locked in death struggle with the moneybags. But if the prole is transformed into an entrepreneur in a free relationship with the consumer, then the Marxist Weltanschauung collapses into a mere relic of a distant past, as does the whole edifice of socialism. That's the real reason why Uber is so hated, why you must be denied the freedom to offer or accept a ride.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

An Althouse juxtaposition?

Barack Obama's suggestion of mandatory voting, followed by mob of low information voters disrupting a political debate.

 garage mahal said...

I am the ultimate low information voter.

Temujin said...

I've been reading your blog for a few years now, and I have to say, Madison just keeps sounding less and less appealing. It seems fucking lost in a perpetual state of petulance.

So the current (Dem) Mayor likens Ayn Rand readers to those who would spend their time trying to destroy full time jobs? He sounds like a bright one. I suspect he'll be reelected. What fun.

n.n said...

Not "least common denominator", but rather "greatest common denominator", which is inversely proportional to diversity.

Ann Althouse said...

Madison is actually quite wonderful. We love it. We think of where else we might move when we retire, but nothing seems better.

rhhardin said...

Lefties are remarkably unconvincing in crowds.

"As you can see, we're morons and you'd better listen to us."

It's a bonding thing.

Singly, lefties aren't any better, but it's not bonding.

rhhardin said...

Not moving is a nice option when you retire.

If there are problems, it's not the place.

Good general rule.

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "As we have explained many times in the past, it's because you are a fucking idiot."

I wonder if you ever reconsidered your early volunteer support for a totalitarian regime that routinely lobotomized homosexuals?

Is volunteering to support a regime like that considered not being a "f****** idiot?

Or did you think of it as simply being "edgy"?

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "As we have explained many times in the past, it's because you are a fucking idiot."

LOL

"..we.."

AReasonableMan said...

A complete fucking idiot.

rhhardin said...

Race to the bottom, greatest common denominator

$ cat /home/rhh/binsh/gcd.sh
(echo 'define gcd (y,z) {'
echo ' while(1) {'
echo ' if(z==1)return 1;'
echo ' if(y==1)return 1;'
echo ' if(z==0)return y;'
echo ' if(y==0)return z;'
echo ' if(y<z)z=z%y else y=y%z;'
echo ' }'
echo '}'
echo 'gcd('$1,$2')')|bc -q

$ gcd.sh 12345678 2345676
282

Temujin said...

Professor- I get that you love Madison. I see it come through in your photos of happy dogs and sunsets. I used to get to Madison a lot, years ago, for biz. It was always a fun town. It just doesn't seem that way any longer.

But- it's been your home for years and I'm sure you love the town and the U. I get that. I just know that I would not have the patience for what I would refer to as "that constant bullshit" if I lived there. Life's too short to be surrounded by hand-wringers all the time.

garage mahal said...

Props to the idiot that is too dumb to get me riled up but thinks posting under my name will. As if anyone will be fooled by a dull, witless, unfunny impostor.

jr565 said...

"Some people are deciding based on their different positions on — of all things — Uber, as Larry Kaufmann explains here:

Leading the charge is Mayor Paul Soglin, who treats Uber as if it were the spawn of Satan, or at least the Koch brothers."
In NY there are soon going to be more Uber cabs then taxis. The traditional taxi cabs are chomping at the bit because they've been regulated for years and only allowed a certain number of cars. Now Uber comes in and has more cars and isn't bound by the regulation.
So, then govt needs to life the regulation or regulate Uber the same way.

So if its a choice of how to handle Uber look to the candidate that says Uber should be treated the same as the cab companies.

 garage mahal said...

The real garage mahal!

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "A complete fucking idiot."

It's even more persuasive if you repeat it about 20 times in a post.

Like a chant almost.

You know, like you've done in the past....before mass deleting the incriminating posts.

LOL

jr565 said...

So, it would seem that the left and blacks in specific have a big problem with letting the facts come out and a premumption of innocence.They want to skip the trial and go right to sentencing.

ITs too bad then that 95% of the time they dredge up the black guy shot by cop just for being black there are extenuating circumstances that show that that's not what the case is about.
But yet, we have to indict the whole system every time. and then have dialogues about race.
How about if you want a dialogue try being truthful.

Michael K said...

Madison is Los Angles with freezing weather.

As long as I can keep it 60- miles away, it can't hurt me.

jr565 said...

If there were any there there in the Brown case, do you not think Eric Holders justice dept wouldn't be chomping at the bit to hold Officer Wilson to task?

furious_a said...

Also, I would hate to hold any elected office.

Some are born to greatness, others have it thrust upon them.

furious_a said...

Barack Obama's suggestion of mandatory voting...

Chilling. If they know you voted, then they'll know *how* you voted.

Just like they can tell whether you donated to the cause or wished Dear Leader "Happy Birthday".

n.n said...

rhhardin:

There can be only unity and so God was conceived as a consensus of diverse coherent patterns. Perhaps that's also the origin of the universal fitness function, which is observed as stars, planets, autonomous human entities, etc. The basis for "For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return." Our origin was a violent event -- a birth pang -- that marks both a constructive and destructive segue.

n.n said...

They cling to their sincerely established monopolies, and the capital and control that vests with them.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Althouse, regarding retirement, Seattle is wonderful, if you don't mind gray and wet. Not so cold as Madison, but similar vibe, wonderful housing stuck, and it's the most fucking beautiful city in the world. Mountains and ocean and freshwater lakes and trees and everything you could want. Thousands of miles of hiking trails. Skiing. Dogs everywhere (people take them to work at places like Amazon). Silly lefty politics but you're already inured to that, but with the occasional welcome western-state libertarian streak. Wonderful routes through the Cascades or out onto the Peninsula for Sunday drives. You'll adore it. Check it out.

Dale Light said...

My first thought when I read your post was "What's the matter with these folks?" College towns usually have their charms, but living in Madison sounds like a season in Bedlam.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Oh, and coming from Wisconsin, if you lived in say Ballard, you'd feel very at home. It's the traditionally Scandinavian part of the city.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ALP said...

Misplaced Pants:

It would be pretty awesome to have the Althouse analysis of Seattle politics.

PB said...

It's wonderful to see progressives embracing progress.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Not moving is a nice option when you retire.

If there are problems, it's not the place.

Good general rule."

Ahh, but I am moving to retire, on the dole. I haven't figured out whether Janesville or Beloit is my best option yet is the thing.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

When I was a kid we used to joke about Mazo, but now it's Titus level hip.

Tom Veal said...

You have trouble choosing between the mayoral candidates in Madison? Be glad you don't live in Chicago!

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Every decent Madison resident or visitor should yell down the corrupt racists in charge every chance they get. Police aren't in charge so treat them with courtesy.

SGT Ted said...

Tony was all f-ed up drugs when he was shot right? So why is he still some kind of martyr & poor victim to the protestors?

Because of his skin color. That's how racists roll.

Anonymous said...

Madison is actually quite wonderful

You say that now, yet so many of your followers (whose only insight into this city comes from you and your blog) somehow have the idea that it is an absolute hellhole with nothing good, let alone "wonderful", about it.

Wonder how they ever would have got that perception?

averagejoe said...

jr565 said...
So, it would seem that the left and blacks in specific have a big problem with letting the facts come out and a premumption of innocence.They want to skip the trial and go right to sentencing.

3/21/15, 12:55 PM

I know, right? The same people who complain about improper sentencing and prejudiced judgments and lynching will from a lynch mob before they've even seen the evidence and considered the facts of the situation.

Birkel said...

MadisonIngafella:

If one had to guess, it's the overwhelming Leftism of the city.

wildswan said...

Run, Meade, Run

NotquiteunBuckley said...

I feel like Rush, not wanting to but having to, talk down to an audience.

Literal bird brains, i.e. birds, can observe things that work and those that don't don't.

Yelling works.

This could be an evil thought but isn't evil overall so I will say it: Jews in Germany could have used some young thug worship of their most violent members to make the Nazi's life harder.

I would not have done so I can vouchsafe by my cowardly existence today.

But consider America's embrace of Tupac similar to "Let's roll."

Tupac talked of rolling itself which adds to my theory yet isn't meat/bones.

The overlying emphasis, again, is that thuggishness works. Those who observe that have a leg up on those blinded. Those blinded by wealth don't give a shoot either way because they have no need to.

Again this is partly why I repeat WFB so much, as he cared because caring is what his Catholic faith taught him was the proper thing to do.

He cared mainly by kicking Leftist ass from the moment he first kicked.

Skeptical Voter said...

Ah an invitation to rational debate. That crowd ought to go sign on with Starbucks. They are looking for baristas who can initiate a conversation on race.

30yearProf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
30yearProf said...

Scared cops

The police are BRAIN WASHED at the Academy and in their in-service training by watching hours and hours of video in which the officer is shot and killed during a "citizen contact." They are soaked in video of situations that occur only 27-30 times a year. They come, naturally, to view ALL non-cops as deadly killers just waiting for an opportunity. The facts are different.

Twenty-nine (avg.) police murders out of 10, 20, 30 million "citizen contacts" a year turns out to be 0.0000009 or 1 in a million. That's a risk, worth the hazard pay increment the police receive, but it doesn't even put police work in the top ten dangerous professions.

Having created this distorted view of civilians as a constant, "significant", deadly threat, the Departments are quick to hide behind overblown claims of "officer safety" every time a terrified police officer shoots someone with a wallet, cell phone, car keys, or nothing in his hand. It's like a silver bullet. Just claiming "officer safety", which is by the way never examined, is the get out of jail card for every police officer.

We, the voters who elect city councils, need to demand realistic police training. Realistic in respect to real dangers and realistic in respect to non-threatening situations (99.9 out of 100). Departments need to deescalate the "fear" they have soaked their officers in. The people are not the enemy of the police and we should be secure in our belief (however eroded) that the police are not our enemy. Insuring that is the job of the police.

In my suburb, the police are afraid to converse with citizens in the coffee shop lest they "fall under our spell" and fail to do their duty at some point in the future. If I know them, I might not fear them, I suppose (does that explain the dark glasses at all hours?). In the next village, the officers expect you to be pleased to hold a conversation in your outside rear view mirror with a man you can't see, who sounds afraid, over a simple 5 mhp over ticket. I knew, and he knew, that I was getting a ticket (the tiny town depends on ticket revenue for "extras" beyond their tax base's capability to provide). As he approached the window to take the license and registration, he acted like a movie EOD tech approaching a grenade with the spoon gone. No, "Officer Friendly" doesn't work here anymore. Neither does "Officer Good Judgment."

BTW, in over 60 years of life I have never been touched by a police officer except to shake hands at a city function. I have no axe to grind.

Bob R said...

"Madison is actually quite wonderful. We love it. We think of where else we might move when we retire, but nothing seems better."

There is a lot of ruin in a town with a lot of rich, upper-middle class people. The financial and social capital of dozens of generations is hard for even the Soglins of this word to piss away - hard as they will try.

Unknown said...

jr565, the comment "So, it would seem that the left and blacks in specific have a big problem with letting the facts come out and a presumption of innocence. They want to skip the trial and go right to sentencing," I don't know what the black population of Mad. is, but from the pic in the article they didn't seem to be flooding the venue. I susoect the "the left and blacks" should be revised "the left and some blacks."

This might be related to the "white presuming to help black" post below.

Unknown said...

30yroldprof, Would you be happier with a higher cop kill rate? Because that's a natural consequence of the approach you seem to be pushing.

The police are supposed to nab bad guys. Bad guys are bad. Approaching a bad guy is risky. That's pretty much why we have cops. That there are so few cops killed might have something to do with the approach they take and the way they are trained. You've got it about as backward as you possibly could.

And I'm NOT suggesting all police kills are clean, but I'm not sure how many are not (and by what/whose standard)

chickelit said...

Original Mike said...
Scott Resnick is 28 years old.

Paul Soglin was 27 when first elected mayor in 1973.

AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...
30yroldprof, Would you be happier with a higher cop kill rate? Because that's a natural consequence of the approach you seem to be pushing.


No it isn't. He is simply suggesting that, a) being a cop is not that dangerous and b) the old non-militarized police force was a better fit with the actual job.

chickelit said...

I recall reading a lot of simpatico politics between the first Soglin administration and the worker-owned Union Cab of Madison. Their history is here, but you won't find his name there. Licensure is still city politics though, isn't it?

chickelit said...

AReasonableMan said...

No it isn't. He is simply suggesting that, a) being a cop is not that dangerous and b) the old non-militarized police force was a better fit with the actual job.

The flip side of the "cops have gotten more violent" thinking is that criminals have gotten bolder in their confrontations with law enforcement. Every "victim" is lionized by a fawning press and by certain factions of government, including those at the highest level.

This factor cannot be dismissed.

AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
The flip side of the "cops have gotten more violent" thinking is that criminals have gotten bolder in their confrontations with law enforcement. Every "victim" is lionized by a fawning press and by certain factions of government, including those at the highest level.


But, the rates of violent have fallen, a lot, over the last few decades.

chickelit said...

But, the rates of violent have fallen, a lot, over the last few decades.

But this has been attributed to waning numbers of baby boomers--in particular young men. If there is some truth to that theory, then the "residual" crime should track racial demographics with fewer crimes being committed by legacy whites whose absolute numbers are declining.

EMD said...

I'm working on Uber for hookers.

Peer-to-peer baby.

EMD said...

The flip side of the "cops have gotten more violent" thinking is that criminals have gotten bolder in their confrontations with law enforcement. Every "victim" is lionized by a fawning press and by certain factions of government, including those at the highest level.

I believe this is simply not true, but a result of having an instantaneous, perpetual media.

EMD said...


Paul Soglin was 27 when first elected mayor in 1973.


Seriously? And he's mayor now? That's like hiring Bill Fitch to keep coaching your NBA team.

chickelit said...

EMD said...

Paul Soglin was 27 when first elected mayor in 1973.

He hasn't served continuously since 1973 -- there have been a few other majors in the interregnum(s): Wiki link

Soglin has evolved in a "punctuated equilibrium" sort of way.

Original Mike said...


"Scott Resnick is the youngest alder on the Madison City Council and currently the youngest elected councilman for a municipality over 200,000 in the United States."

chickelit said...

"majors" was typo above. I meant "mayors" even though I know the two words are related.

chickelit said...

Original Mike: Soglin was 22 when elected to City Council: link.

How old was Resnick?

EMD said...

He hasn't served continuously since 1973 -- there have been a few other majors in the interregnum(s): Wiki link

My point exactly with Bill Fitch. His coaching career has holes. But he seems to always be coming back around with the same results.

Original Mike said...

Because Soglin was elected then is not an argument for electing Resnick now. If he were 28 yo conservative I'd give him a listen. But he's a 28 yo progressive.

richard mcenroe said...

See, you say "alder" and I hear "kucinich"

chickelit said...

@Original Mike: Soglin also ran (unsuccessfully) for mayor two years earlier in 1971 against Bill Dyke (the last conservative republican to hold that office). Soglin must have been around 25 at the time.

Does Resnick beat those stats?

Original Mike said...

I loved Bill Dyke's campaign motto [/sarcasm]

Dyke. Because.

chickelit said...

Original Mike said...
Because Soglin was elected then is not an argument for electing Resnick now.

Of course it's not. I was just pointing out some history and tacitly wondering whether Madisonians would notice or care. For example, if any candidate were non-pallored, I'm sure age wouldn't be a deciding factor. Madisonians, by self-identification, must be cutting edge progressive! There are over 100 years of history and tradition to uphold!

chickelit said...

Original Mike said...
I loved Bill Dyke's campaign motto [/sarcasm]

Dyke. Because.


That was the infamous "decent people" campaign!

Original Mike said...

If Wisconsin wins the tournament, I'm voting for Bo.

chickelit said...

If only Althouse had been blogging Madison in 1973!

Original Mike said...

"That was the infamous "decent people" campaign!"

I'd forgotten that.

Original Mike said...

"If only Althouse had been blogging Madison in 1973!"

She'd have had to do it on papyrus.

Michael McNeil said...

30yrProf: Well said. And for those who feel enormous sympathy for the police in general with regard to shooting encounters (which I have to admit is encouraged by the events last year in Ferguson, where that particular shooting by police was clearly justified), I invite them to read two articles by Mark Steyn from last year (but well before Ferguson), to wit: “Gun Control” and “The Warning Shot Heard Round the World. (But Not Here.)

In the last, Steyn replies directly to law-enforcement criticisms of his earlier piece. Here's an excerpt, but please read the whole thing (both of them). Then I'd like to see anybody's critique, if they have any, of what he has to say.

“[W]hether you're talking about gun-controlled England or heat-packing Iceland, comparisons between American "justifiable homicides" and police shooting rates of other western nations are hardly worth bothering with. Indeed, the US police "justifiable homicide" figure looks more like the total murder count for most other developed societies. In Oz, the total number of murders per year is about 270, so a nation of 23 million would have to increase by 50 per cent to commit as many homicides as American law enforcement. In Canada, whose urban police departments have absorbed certain American practices, a dozen or so people get shot dead by cops each year, which is again somewhat short of the US rate. Indeed, that 2012 "justifiable homicide" figure of 410 compares to a total Canadian homicide count for 2011 of 598. In other words, in America 120,000 or so full-time law enforcement officers rack up the same number of homicides as about 24 million Canadians.”

chickelit said...

EMD wrote:

I believe this is simply not true, but a result of having an instantaneous, perpetual media.

That's an important retort. Do you think the media don't believe what they write and only do it because they have to fill time and story quotas? I'm thinking of the D.C. reporter deployed to Ferguson early on -- they one who interpreted a local McDonald's decision to close down early (in order to send their employers safely home) as a personal abridgment of his 1st Amendment WiFi rights. I commented on this here at Althouse at the time and could find the link in case you have doubts.

chickelit said...

@Original Mike: Wiki tells me that William Dyke is a circuit court judge in Iowa County. Google tells me that Jim Rowen is the most googled reference to "decent people" in the Madison context. I can't tell you how much I despise Jim Rowen.

Sammy Finkelman said...

"Soglin tried: "I find it very, very difficult to address this subject in the context of a mayoral debate, of the context of some of the anger in this room...."

There was not anger in that room - there was horrible, horrible prejudice in that room, and metaphorically (but literally only if you use words like Joe Biden) a lynch mob mentality there.

Sammy Finkelman said...

Well, polikce fireamr straining basically presents them with a Kobayashi Maru scenario.

Sammy Finkelman said...

They either get killed, or kill an innocent person.

Of course, it is possible, unknown to them, the person they stop for a ticket, might be someone who expects or fears arrest for a capital crime or something just as bad to him, and also does not want to accept it. Possible, but also very unlikely.

Rusty said...

Althouse
Come for the scintillating conversation.
Stay for the irony.


AReasonableMan said...
Drago said...
Why is it that when I read "Tony" I hear "Ant-ny"?

As we have explained many times in the past, it's because you are a fucking idiot.


What's this "we" business? hite man.

chickelit said...

Perhaps Madison should experiment with abolishing the mayoralty -- not permanently -- but just until certain factions can grow up. Let a council rule by diktat for a while. Let it be chosen not according to merit, but rather according to proportional representation by race, color, creed, sex, and gender identity, class, etc. etc. If that is what a majority of Madisonians, want then let them have at it to rid the city of the notion as a failed ideal.

chickelit said...

Forced representation according to demography could be transformative for Madison!

LarryK said...

Madison is a wonderful place. If someone could graft libertarian politics onto it and move it a thousand miles south it would be paradise.

Thanks for the link A!

Char Char Binks said...

Don't waste your vote on Koval -- VOTE FOR MATT KENNY! He's the only one I'd trust to mayor us, unless Lazlo throws his spatula in the ring.

Char Char Binks said...

Ok, Laslo. Sorry!

Kirk Parker said...

Althouse,

"They're all Democrats. "

Is this for the primary, then? Or does WI share with WA that horrible abominable "top-two" system?

"Also, I would hate to hold any elected office. "

Why yes, so would I or so would any man. (Apologies to Shakespeare!)

But that's exactly why you are qualified, and should run -- you don't WANT the power of the position, so there's at least some chance you would use it sparingly.


I Have Misplace My Pants,

You're so close, but so f'n far away. That distinction -- most beautiful city in the world -- clearly goes to Tacoma! Have you seen the view of Mt Rainier from Commencement Bay? Beats Seattle all to hell...

Kirk Parker said...

Unknown,

"Would you be happier with a higher cop kill rate?"

Please.

I wouldn't be happier with an higher on-the-job murder rate for ANY job, outside that of ISIS foot-soldier I suppose.

But I would definitely tolerate a higher on-the-job fatality rate for patrol officers in exchange for them going back to the Peace Officer model in preference to the current Army of Occupation model, damn right I would!

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Unquestionably the U.S. has a higher murder rate than most places in the world. Has anyone looked at the ratio of total violent deaths to the death by police rate and the number of police killed? The number of police related deaths is pretty irrelevant without context. When the violent crime rate in the U.S. is on par with the violent crime rate other nations, then we can reasonably talk about how outrageous are the number of deaths by police officers.

I suggest the reason there is a low police kill rate is police are trained to be ultra vigilant. Not Army of Occupation, just extreme caution. You give it away with the comment that you "would definitely tolerate a higher on-the-job fatality rate for patrol officers in exchange for them going back to the Peace Officer model." If you want to believe cops are gunning for everyone, there is no hope for a sensible conversation.

EMD said...

Do you think the media don't believe what they write and only do it because they have to fill time and story quotas?

No, you just didn't know about all the stuff you know about now because the media is so much more seamlessly embedded in our lives.

Kirk Parker said...

"Unquestionably the U.S. has a higher murder rate than most places in the world."

No, that is a completely incorrect statement. In fact is firmly in the middle of the pack.

Kirk Parker said...

Unknown,

Also:

"If you want to believe cops are gunning for everyone, there is no hope for a sensible conversation. "

On the contrary, I think it's your equation of "Army of Occupation" with "gunning for everyone" where the breakdown of understanding is happening. (Hint: "gunning for everyone" is what an army does before it becomes an Army of Occupation. After that, if it's still "gunning for everyone", we don't call it an Army of Occupation, we call it Genocide.)