I got the link from Instapundit, who presents it like this:
JIM TREACHER: What Happens When You Try To Get A Bunch Of Little Boys To Slap A Little Girl In The Face? “SPOILER: They won’t do it. And if that surprises you for some reason, apparently you’re the target audience for this Italian PSA.”Neither Treacher nor Instapundit (or, I think, any of their commenters) mentions what troubled me. Before these little boys are ordered by the unseen voice to slap the girl, they are directed to "caress" her, and they do. The girl never speaks. She's simply delivered to the presence of the boy for admiration, and the boys comply, which is easy enough, since a very pretty girl has been chosen for this performance. The girl is never asked: Do you want this little boy to caress you?
And I'm not only complaining about the silence of the girl, the absence of consent to the caress. I don't like the sexualization of the boys. Why is the boy expected to act like an adult — a stereotypical adult male heterosexual — and want to caress a female because she is beautiful? Why is the off-screen voice ordering a boy to do sexual things to a little girl?
Oh — you may want to say — but it's only a "caress." A mother might caress a baby.
No. A boy finds himself on camera and is asked to step up to the role of an adult in the relations between the sexes. He is invited to do to a girl the things that a man does to a woman, and he draws the line at hitting. Good for him! Mere children know that this is wrong, so you grown men should be ashamed if you don't know any better. That's the message here.
By the way, Treacher and Instapundit seem to miss even that message. The ad-makers weren't trying to get the boys to hit the girl, nor did they mean to surprise us. The idea was: Everyone — even a child — knows this is wrong, so anyone who thinks this is what men do is way outside of the norm.
I'm thinking that Treacher and Instapundit were too quick to find another example of anti-male propaganda.
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138 comments:
1) There was nothing sexual about those caresses...
2) The girl was bigger than all of the boys...they should have used a girl closer to their age and size.
3) I still don't think they would slap her.
By the way...if they had reversed the genders, and told a girl to slap a boy..what do you think the results would have been?
The idea was: Everyone — even a child — knows this (hitting a woman) is wrong, so anyone who thinks this is what men do is way outside of the norm.
Why is it wrong? Or rather why is it ok to hit a man and not a woman? I thought women and men were equal?
I know why I think it is wrong for a man to hit a woman, but I think you should treat men and women differently because they are different.
I think that the point Treacher is making is that as men we know this, and the people who don't think we know this are bigots and we are sick of their bigotry, or misandry, if were were to be up to date about naming it.
@Gahrie/
Men and women different? Off to the re-education camps for you!
The video just re-enforces anti male stereotypes just by the fact that people feel they need to make it.
I don't think PSAs such as this are effective in accomplishing their goal, reducing violence against women.
Anyone who is going to be moved by this PSA already knows that hitting women is wrong and something that people in decent society don't do.
Men who hit women will just consider it sappy nonsense.
For some reason this reminds me of a Quincy MD episode I saw from many, many, many years ago. Probably because it depicted a doomed attempt to "treat" wife beaters.
Quincy's girlfriend, a social worker, was in a program where she was assigned to live with a family were the husband was beating the wife. She was supposed to intervene when the man was getting upset and offer advise about how to better handle his anger and frustration instead of, you know, hitting his wife.
Even as a child I was astounded at the mind set that could conceive and attempt to carry out such a scheme.
The arrogance of the self-enlightened I call it.
If this program existed in real life, which would not surprise me, I imagine it was discontinued about 5 minutes after the first social worker was beaten, and supported by the wife who assured everyone that the social worker had provoked it.
Althouse's view is correct that the exploitation of children is here and off-putting. This ain't a village and I am not a chief so I can only voice concurrence and vow to act in a manner such as to minimize this type of output in the future, accomplished mainly by my silence as to any creators of such dreck so as not to incentivize the exploiters with media attention.
To the point of the PSA, it's childish nonsense.
Adults know what kids don't. Dr. John sang about it, namely "If I don't do it, somebody else will."
50 Shades of Grey comes out Valenties Day. Only movie I will see in the theater this year most likely. Not my choice but I am supremely curious to see all the little Phillies lined up to watch.
My prediction is an atmosphere moist with emotion. A place filled with sweat, tears, and gasps of hot, humid air with every whack.
Ahem. The boys are Italian, after all... But leaving that aside, it does not surprise me that the boys acted decently. Some years ago, my youngest daughter had a pervert show up on her Facebook account. Before it was ever brought to my attention, the pervert had been shouted down by the local boys of Galveston. This is Texas, though. We still expect a lot.
That is, the wife supported the husband's assaulting the social worker.
I like "'cause I'm a man". That's what a man does: he refuses to do what's wrong when commanded.
After all, it is a charming PSA. Boys should try to be good. This scripted example, with good-looking boys and a beautiful girl, shows how to do it.
"Why is it wrong? Or rather why is it ok to hit a man and not a woman? I thought women and men were equal?"
Exactly--the problem with the neo-Victorians and faux-feminists is that they continue to push a double standard. So on TV, a woman clocks a man, it's played for laughs. A man does the same to a woman, it's a jaw-dropping moment.
It shouldn't be okay for anyone to hit anyone, regardless of gender, except in reasonable self defense or defense of others. When people focus on "not hitting women" they perpetuate this idea that women are weak fauns and men are violent brutes.
The whole set up is bullshit.
1. Take a young man/boy.
2. Introduce a pretty girl.
3. Let him caress her, touch her. She reacts positively.
4. Then they make faces and play around in an obvious youthful game-like way - the way you did with girls when you were in 3rd grade.
5. Something's missing.
6. Slap her. WTF? Where is item #5? Where is the reason to slap her?
Even in real life, men who hit women (which I'm not endorsing, so don't be an idiot) mostly don't do it for exactly no reason, no provocation.
Insert in #5 that the pretty girl tells the boy that his mother is scum sucking whore (and his favorite futbol team sucks), then ask him to hit her. At least you would be giving him some reason for action.
Do real men, even men who do hit women, do it because someone else said "slap her?"
What's the Italian for "Because she'd kick my ass"?
This will teach Tully Blanchard not to hit a girl. Like Dusty Roads says, after rescuing her, "You don't belong to him no more, You Belong to Me." Unfortunately, Dusty got jobbed in the deal and Baby Doll didn't remain his property.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCYcXKllKVM
I don't think this would fly today.
"Even in real life, men who hit women (which I'm not endorsing, so don't be an idiot) mostly don't do it for exactly no reason, no provocation."
I can't speak for men who hit women, but I highly doubt any of them would be moved by a PSA.
I don't agree, this is another incident of blaming all men for what a few of them do.
Incident/example.
Let's have a PSA to tell women not to step out on their men and stick their men with children not their own to raise and support for two decades. How about that?
Shorter PSA:
Females are privileged, and don't you forget it!
Maybe it's just me, but there seems a moment (micro-moment? micro-meta-moment?) on the girl's face when the first instruction to 'caress' is given: it seems like she is briefly caught by surprise.
Which makes me wonder if she knew that was specifically coming.
And did she acquiesce to being touched by the boys in a faux-intimate way because she thought that she had to -- that this is what the adults required of her, as a child?
Anyway.
I am Laslo.
Why is this even an issue today? Didn't Michele Obama "hashtag" this already?
Also: let me know when she is legal.
Of cultural interest only, of course: not sure what age that might be in Italy.
But let me know.
I am Laslo.
No mention of Creepy Uncle Joe Biden caressing the pretty little girls. Why are pretty little girls expected to be silent when the VP caresses them in front of their family? Why are parents expected to be silent when Creepy Joe goes Creeper?
Off the top of my head, without any real research (including searching my own memories for longer than it takes to type this comment), I think it's fair to say that all PSAs are stupid wastes of taxpayer money.
They are welfare for unemployed filmmakers with no meaningful societal value.
And while Instapundit is sometimes too quick to shout "War on Men!," Althouse is sometimes too reluctant to notice the anti-male bias. My namesake from Vermont spells out the problem with this PSA nicely.
I thought the message was one of two, not mutually exclusive possibilities:
An attempt to rehabilitate the image of al those Italians wearing sleeveless "wife-beater" T-shirts, and/or
That hitting an ugly woman is okay.
Wonder how Bubba Bill and Prince Andy feel about caressing pretty little girls?
1. The girl is pretty. But so are the boys. It's Italy. A lot of Italians are pretty, and they value male and female beauty. Plus it's an ad.
2. The girl probably gave "consent" in some form. She's in the video voluntarily and unsurprised when the slap command arrives. Undoubtedly she is prepared for it. I hope her parents were involved in the consent. She's young, even younger than she looks, and her independent capacity to consent is doubtful.
3. The boys universally respond to her beauty with open and perhaps slightly seductive admiration. These seem the reactions of an older and more experienced set of males. At least by American standards. This is probably cultural, plus it's a group of very handsome boys used to being admired themselves.
4. Why is this viral? First of all the beauty of the players. Plus people like to see kids acting out adult situations. But they like pretty boys as well as pretty girls on youtube too.
There is a cultural difference here. But by American standards you can argue that it's the boys who were exploited for their beauty too.
("Because I'm a man?" He isn't a man. And that line felt scripted.)
"Why is it wrong? Or rather why is it ok to hit a man and not a woman?"
No one said it was okay.
The PSA addresses male violence against women, and it dwells on the kind of thinking that some men might have that leads them into that behavior.
If you wanted to make a PSA about the problem of women's violence against men, you could do that, and you would probably do it in a different way.
The idea that any PSA must address every similar problem is ridiculous.
The bullshit coming from the feminists is the notion that average men don't know it's wrong to hit women and DV can be solved with a PSA telling them not to.
The "Rape Culture" idiots on campus think the same way: that men are just natural rapists and that we need re-education by our Betters to get it right.
The entire feminist re-education efforts are based on bigoted ideas about men that are utterly misandrist. It's like assuming women on campus are natural whores because they possess a vagina and teaching them not to be whores is the right thing to do, so they won't sell sex.
If only Ray Rice had seen this video...
"By the way...if they had reversed the genders, and told a girl to slap a boy..what do you think the results would have been?"
First of all, this is an ad, using beautiful models and editing. It's not a scientific on-the-street experiment.
So what on earth do you think you are talking about?
To the extent that the performances were elicited spontaneously, they are about how the actor understood the role he was asked to perform, what he thought he was brought on the set to do and what verbal and nonverbal signals he received.
If exactly the same thing were done with girls ordered to slap boys, it's more likely that they would believe that was the role they were supposed to perform. But the relevant psychological analysis would be about following orders and believing that the orders were to be taken seriously.
I'm thinking that Treacher and Instapundit are a lot more intelligent than Althouse.
"I think that the point Treacher is making is that as men we know this, and the people who don't think we know this are bigots and we are sick of their bigotry, or misandry, if were were to be up to date about naming it."
Obviously, some men do resort to lashing out physically against women or using violence to control women. The PSA is an effort to get into their heads and reshape that thinking.
Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life.
And who says boys don't hit girls? I pay good money to have my son taught to hit girls. ( And boys. ) He takes karate, and sometimes his sparing partner is a girl, and some of them are damn quick and can hit harder than the average boy.
It's not OK to hit a woman. This is not rocket science. Men tend to be bigger and stronger than women. Mia Hamm or Serena Williams could probably kick me all around the room without breaking a sweat. It's still not OK to hit a woman.
"50 Shades of Grey comes out Valenties Day. Only movie I will see in the theater this year most likely. Not my choice but I am supremely curious to see all the little Phillies lined up to watch."
Are you trying to win the funny typos prize today?
"Ann Althouse said...
The PSA addresses male violence against women, and it dwells on the kind of thinking that some men might have that leads them into that behavior.
and
The PSA is an effort to get into their heads and reshape that thinking. "
So you think this PSA actually has value to that end?
Bless your heart.
"Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life."
Althouse hits below the belt when counter attacked.
"The whole set up is bullshit.... 5. Something's missing. 6. Slap her. WTF? Where is item #5? Where is the reason to slap her?"
Good point. She should have given some cruelly ego-deflating response to him after he "wooed" her. She should have said: "È poco twerp" or whatever one says in Italian.
"Obviously, some men do resort to lashing out physically against women or using violence to control women. The PSA is an effort to get into their heads and reshape that thinking."
What, you think they don't KNOW it's wrong to beat their woman? That this PSA can help them?
This type of thinking is ludicrous and yes, it's bigoted at its heart.
"Don't be a splooge stooge" redux.
Althouse has a complete meltdown when one of her pet issues (in this case feminazi nonsense) gets criticized.
Hopefully she won't let her post menopausal emotional tantrum shut down the comments again . . . .
Althouse,
Seeing that the stats show that women are instigators of over 50% of DV, how come there aren't any PSA telling women not to hit men?
The ONLY answer is a sexist attitude that assumes women are more valuable than men, Ann. It's isn't "whiney" to point that out.
But, your "man-up" shaming language bullshit is noted.
This is stupid. The comments are stupid, the premise is stupid, the deconstruction of stupid is stupid.
"The girl probably gave "consent" in some form. She's in the video voluntarily and unsurprised when the slap command arrives. Undoubtedly she is prepared for it. I hope her parents were involved in the consent. She's young, even younger than she looks, and her independent capacity to consent is doubtful."
But WE don't see her consent. We see her dolled up and delivered for male delectation. The only question was: What's the right way for a male to take possession of a woman?
This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly.
Why?
"The bullshit coming from the feminists is the notion that average men don't know it's wrong to hit women and DV can be solved with a PSA telling them not to."
Nope. You are projecting your own thoughts and then calling them "bullshit." If you think it's bullshit, why did you think it?
The ad is saying EVERYONE knows it's wrong. Children know it's wrong, even when adults tell them to do it. It is reinforcing the moral value for the sake of the OUTLIERS who transgress the norm.
This Is not as creepy as Joe Biden yesterday. He forces himself on Sen. Coons' prepubescent daughter. What a pervert.
He also had no idea who Joni Ernst is. That's disconected.
Gahrie,
Because we're just suppose to shut up and take it, unlike women, who are equal to men.
Female privilege defined.
Touching a girl because someone told you to is allowed. I wonder what is happening on Italy's college campuses.
I bet it's sexy.
I am Laslo.
Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly.
Right. Man up, I get it.
You asked why there was a negative reaction. I explained it. It turns out that you didn't really want to know why there was a negative reaction. It was a rhetorical question, the kind like minded people know not to answer. My bad.
"This is stupid. The comments are stupid, the premise is stupid, the deconstruction of stupid is stupid."
And your comment is .....?
If exactly the same thing were done with girls ordered to slap boys, it's more likely that they would believe that was the role they were supposed to perform
So you agree with me that the girls would most likely slap the boys, but think there is nothing wrong with that, and if there was something wrong with that, it wouldn't be the girls' fault?
Like I said, why aren't we getting PSAs telling women not to hit men?
The DV stats indicate that it is called for, based on your own criteria. In fact, far more women than men think it is OK to strike their partner. That is also backed up by the numbers.
There's only one answer and it ain't pretty. It's also inconvenient for the female supremacists that think women are more special than men.
Thurber defends hitting women in his article on the split infinitive.
Obviously, some men do resort to lashing out physically against women or using violence to control women. The PSA is an effort to get into their heads and reshape that thinking.
As others have pointed out, that's the problem with this ad.
Have her hit him first, or denigrate him, or make him angry otherwise and then see what happens. Even Ray Rice didn't hit his wife when they were just standing there in a quiet moment.
What if one of the kids -- after hearing the command to 'caress' -- went straight for her breasts?
Would the PSA be compromised? Or just 'hot'?
I am Laslo.
"But WE don't see her consent. We see her dolled up and delivered for male delectation. The only question was: What's the right way for a male to take possession of a woman?"
That's over the top. Can't boys be boys, and girls, girls? Jeez, you take her as a whore, and the film-makers pimps.
"Why is it wrong? Or rather why is it ok to hit a man and not a woman?"
No one said it was okay
So it is your position that if Ray Rice had been punching a man n that video the MSM and NFL would have still ruined his life?
Althouse, you need to examine your own assumed female privilege, left over from the pedestalizing days of the patriarchy.
Also, far more men are killed by other men. How come we don't have PSA's telling men not to kill other men? Why are the women special and deserving of extra consideration in an allegedly equal society.
I wonder what REALLY happened to Ritz Carlton Harry.
"Seeing that the stats show that women are instigators of over 50% of DV, how come there aren't any PSA telling women not to hit men?"
Why don't you make one?
This is like people who complain that their political issue isn't getting any attention. You have to make that happen, not sit back passively and wait for others to deal with it.
BTW, the quantity of incidents is less meaningful than the quality. Do you care if women make feeble punches at men? Some people think that's okay and quite different from a man punching a woman. I've seen lots of pop culture comedy involving a woman punching a man ineffectually (and then breaking down and crying and then getting hugged). I don't think there should be any hitting. If you want to make a PSA that tries to teach women that's not a good way to be a woman and you do a good enough job, I would be happy to blog about it.
Ma'am, please don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
If Leftys and feminists didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all.
"Jeez, you take her as a whore, and the film-makers pimps."
You are right. It reminded me of that old movie "Pretty Baby."
What we have is a lot of cognitive dissonance. Women are victims of rape or domestic abuse because of their smaller size yet we pretend that they are equally capable of serving in the army and even in combat.
Althouse has a men are always wrong tendency.
I am critiquing the sexist assumptions of the feminist culture that I think are bullshit, not being an advocate for more stupid, useless PSAs that presume an ad can "educate" wife beaters out of their behavior.
"Seeing that the stats show that women are instigators of over 50% of DV, how come there aren't any PSA telling women not to hit men?"
This video had over 6m views originally on YouTube. This version has 1.2m.
"Why don't you make one?"
Why don't we all raise unicorns? What is wrong with us, that we do not dedicate ourselves to the greatest good that can be achieved?
"Althouse has a men are always wrong tendency."
In this case, my tendency was: Don't exploit children.
You've been reading this blog for over a decade, rh, and I think you know that is one of the few subject that I'm absolutely hardcore about. Don't use children.
We need PSA to teach women not to tickle.
I would have thought that viscous gang rapists would be "outliers who transgress the norm," but it turns out that all of Greek culture at UVA was guilty, even if it never happened.
"I've seen lots of pop culture comedy involving a woman punching a man ineffectually (and then breaking down and crying and then getting hugged)."
And you think that reflects the reality of abused male partners? What you saw on TV?
Okaaaay.
I saw a movie on TV where the girl slapped the guy and then the guy slapped the girl and she got hot and bothered and jumped his bones, so I guess sometimes DV is called for to have great sex. Right?
"I think you know that is one of the few subject that I'm absolutely hardcore about. Don't use children."
That is true and it rubs me the wrong way too.
You've been reading this blog for over a decade, rh, and I think you know that is one of the few subject that I'm absolutely hardcore about. Don't use children
I agree. But boy oh boy does this make me think of all the social justice teaching that is taking place in elementary schools these days*. Another form of using children.
(*perhaps "these days" isn't quite correct. The progressives used the schools to push prohibition, too)
I think you do better treating children as adults. Perhaps they did.
You don't see the backstage.
(I haven't watched the clip)
"'Seeing that the stats show that women are instigators of over 50% of DV, how come there aren't any PSA telling women not to hit men?' This video had over 6m views originally on YouTube. This version has 1.2m."
Thanks! That was a very effective video against female violence against men.
I'd guess that they use children, when they use children, to attract the interest of women, who are political dopes.
The correct resentment is that so many women are dopes and don't want to be any better.
The projected resentment is against using children, as if that were the problem.
These are good boys being good boys, and a good girl being a good girl. We don't have to hate it.
I still remember putting my hand around the waist of a girl in Physical Education when we did square dancing. That girl had a nice waist. It just felt nice, and I didn't have to hit or rape her.
One advantage of always owning Dobermans is that the winter coat can be inherited, though this Doberman is a hard core blanket chewer and it's up in the air whether the coat will survive another generation or be chewed off.
But I treat her as an adult in the matter.
Althouse wrote:
Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life.
come on. It's not hard. Feminists are the bigots. The ones pushing the rape culture meme.
A beauty pageant contestant and possible winner said we should teach women to defend themselves, and the feminist reaction was that we should instead teach men not to rape. That it was offensive somehow to tell women to protect themselves.
This is a carryover of that same argument. Men are taught not to rape and/or hit women. They know
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/06/28/teach-men-not-rape-turn-off-outrage-machine/xnKG1WH7rcwd5kgmMERPYO/story.html
I do think this is an example anti-male propaganda. It fits in with all the male privilege, mansplaining, manspreading, rape culture, anti-domestic violence messaging that's in the zeitgeist.
How many ways can the message get out that men are bad? How does that affect boys?
I don't see why women CONSTANTLY pushing rape culture should be inured from rejection of their argument because it's unmanly to complain. and if anyone should quit whining it's women. Over non existent rape cultures.
"I do think this is an example anti-male propaganda. It fits in with all the male privilege, mansplaining, manspreading, rape culture, anti-domestic violence messaging that's in the zeitgeist. How many ways can the message get out that men are bad? How does that affect boys?"
The message is completely that boys are good — that real men are not violent toward women and everyone knows that.
Why are you reading this as anti-male propaganda?! This couldn't be sweeter and more positive in the way it tries to build a culture of good men.
You are imposing a template that you (and Instapundit) are too quick to use.
The problem with a PSA that aims at a specific group (aside from the fact that the specific group is almost always men) is that the offenders are a small minority. The majority of non-offenders are rightly insulted.
I wonder how well a PSA that aimed at a group where the majority of the group was an offender would go over? Say one that advised black women to get married before having kids? I can already see the heads exploding with rage at the offensive stereotype--even as the majority of AA kids are born to single women.
I know, I know. Not a crime to have kids out of wedlock. Also not a crime to smoke, yet. I've seen plenty of anti-smoking PSA's.
What if they gave the command for the boys to give the girl a light playful spanking? And that they then had to give her a Euro? That strikes me as very Italian.
I would watch that PSA over and over. Think how educated I would become.
I am Laslo.
Why are you reading this as anti-male propaganda?! This couldn't be sweeter and more positive in the way it tries to build a culture of good men.
Because it wasn't created to let boys know they are all so good! It was created because *someone* thinks there is enough of a problem with men hitting women that the lesson must be publicly taught.
Just as if we saw a PSA about how even a young girl knows it isn't ok to kill a baby. We would know that isn't an ad about how great girls are. We would know it was an anti-abortion ad.
So you agree with me that the girls would most likely slap the boys, but think there is nothing wrong with that, and if there was something wrong with that, it wouldn't be the girls' fault?
A+
Why are you reading this as anti-male propaganda?!
Not an honest question, but a rhetorical one. Rhetorical questions rely on an unstated agreement with a particular POV for effectiveness. Althouse is obviously unable to step outside of the video itself and examine the intertextuality involved.
Hint, this video was not made in a cultural vacuum. If I had seen this video in elementary school in 1965, I wouldn't think anything about it, but at that time, male culture was still valued by society.
I apologize in advance for veering into a different topic, but every time I see "Even a child knows it's wrong" I think of the reaction of children when they first learn of elective abortion. My kids were horrified and confused (despite my honest attempt to soften it and explain my understanding of the rationale that is used to support the practice.) and other parents that I know have said the same for their kids, I always wonder if there is some manner in which the subject is introduced by parents who are pro choice that somehow gets around what I believe is the natural reaction of a child to a clear moral wrong.
Incidentally, boys taunted other boys when I was a kid by saying they would "hit a girl."
Probably the taunters ended up being the wife-beaters.
Just a hunch but I think some of the controversy of this ad is created by our cultural differences from Italians. American feminists could rightly be accused of a double standard for promoting specifically that men should not hit women, but my impression is that In Italian culture there is still a much greater acceptance of gender differences,
A man needs a feminist like a fish needs a bicycle.
Another example-
When I lived in Hong Kong, there was a PSA that ran very very frequently advising people to brush their teeth. You do not see a similar PSA on a similar schedule in the US.
Why? Because there was a significant population in Hong Kong with really horrible dental hygiene. People who had maybe never brushed their teeth. But that isn't the case in the US.
You run PSAs where you think a message needs to be heard.
"Why are you reading this as anti-male propaganda?! This couldn't be sweeter and more positive in the way it tries to build a culture of good men."
I will just point out that a dog who regularly takes beatings will still shy away from a hand raised in kindness. Its an instinctive reaction based on previous experience.
Those who comment on this blog, and bloggers in general live surrounded by products of the fringe...they are saturated in this sort of stuff. It makes it easier to engender outrage. Go outside this "informed" information bubble, and the average person would not know what the heck was the deal.
"The ad is saying EVERYONE knows it's wrong. Children know it's wrong, even when adults tell them to do it. It is reinforcing the moral value for the sake of the OUTLIERS who transgress the norm."
So why don't we have PSAs against murder? Because nobody thinks they would actually alter the behavior of the outliers who commit murder.
So the creation of PSAs "educating" against DV against women is a completely useless endeavor meant to make the people who create them feel good about themselves, or the people who make them don't believe that DV against women is an activity performed by outliers, or both.
I include a typo or three in ewery comment so as to preclude defensiveness based on my largely inmitigated untelligence. I looked up "Phillies slang" and found a hit, NOW GONE with the toilet water. The link said Philly was like filly. The example was "yo if you cold go hook up with a Philly tonight and keep warm."
Steel Panther has a song Pretty Baby. No kids exploited because it is a song sung by, to, and for adults.
"And I pop more rhymes than virgin cherries." - Kid Rock.
"Skinny models you can keep those; I like big corn-fed Midwestern hoes." - Kid Rock aka Bobbie Ritchie.
"One of these days ... One of these days... POW! right in the kisser!" - Jackie ^#€<*%€ Gleason
What CStanley said. Italians (and Europeans) aren't Puritans. Gender differences and the idea of "adult behavior" is very different. The Puritans left for America, remember?
There are women who take it to the wire. That's what they are looking for, the ultimate confrontation. They want a smack.
Sean Connery
I don't think there is anything particularly wrong in hitting a woman, though I don't recommend you do it the same way that you hit a man.
Sean Connery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0d1zTAFKA
IMHO this PSA is creepy for two reasons: it promotes a vicarious peep show atmosphere like the sailors on leave in Tijuana vicariously encouraged violence) -- other than the "Knockout frequent, and it conflates a problem that does exist (domestic violence) with a problem that doesn't exist (spontaneous or Game," gang initiations, and a couple of bars I no longer frequent, there is no real evidence of spontaneous violence being a problem.
Suppose the girl was told to hit the guy, she hits, and the guy hit back -- would that be wrong?
And Laslo Spatula nail it, the PSA teaches "Touching a girl because someone told you to is allowed."
Wouldn't it be a wonderful world where men were all as tame and harmless and adorable as those little boys?
editing problem, should be something like:
IMHO this PSA is creepy for two reasons: it promotes a vicarious peep show atmosphere like the sailors on leave in Tijuana -- Laslo Spatula nail it, the PSA teaches "Touching a girl because someone told you to is allowed." Second, other than the "Knockout frequent, and it conflates a problem that does exist (domestic violence) with a problem that doesn't exist (spontaneous or vicariously-encouraged violence)Game," gang initiations, and a couple of bars I no longer frequent, there is no real evidence of spontaneous violence being a problem.
Suppose the girl was told to hit the guy, she hits, and the guy hit back -- would that be wrong?
tim in vermont said...
Wouldn't it be a wonderful world where men were all as tame and harmless and adorable as those little boys?
Nailed it.
I find PSA culture so clichéd. Just tell me what I am supposed to think, and move on. Otherwise, it just feels like a work program for underemployed film studies majors.
Althouse: "The ad is saying EVERYONE knows it's wrong. Children know it's wrong, even when adults tell them to do it. It is reinforcing the moral value for the sake of the OUTLIERS who transgress the norm."
Muslims everywhere completely and utterly disagree....and won't listen to you anywhere cuz you're just a chick.
In dealing with women, I always ask myself WWSCD?, that is, What Would Sean Connery Do?
PSAs are all leftist oriented.
MayBee
Tim in vermont said...
Wouldn't it be a wonderful world where men were all as tame and harmless and adorable as those little boys?
Nailed it
Exactly, given the PSA's I've seen here is that "men" need to unlearn Rape Culture. This is not saying "see, everyone knows its wrong to hit women" - its saying "Men, you need to be harmless like a little boy"
That's why this is anti-male.
These PSAs are just a method of bullying impressionable males.
Why are you reading this as anti-male propaganda?! This couldn't be sweeter and more positive in the way it tries to build a culture of good men.
I'll give you a true story:
I was leaving my then-fiancee for a litany of reasons back in 2003 (it was the day John Ritter died, which triggered her to go off on me for whatever asinine reason and solidified my reason to leave). She responded by blind-siding me with a phone to the head, busting me open.
When the neighbors called the police, she claimed I hit her.
I got handcuffed.
Mind you --- I didn't touch her (not hold her, hit her, slap her, or make any other type of physical contact whatsoever). No mark was on her. Meanwhile, I had blood flowing down my face from the cut on my head she caused. Also, my shirt was nearly torn off because of her and I had scratches and bites on both of my arms.
It took me a few hours at the police station to be released. She was out of jail well before I was.
So, I'm curious --- when are hits by women "ineffectual"? And what does a man do when he is not able to hit back (because, rest assured, if a bruise was on her anywhere, I'd have been spending a while in jail).
I've seen TONS of women initiate conflicts. Ray Rice's fiancee initiated that fight. Jay-Z showed remarkable restraint when Solange initiated a fight with him. Women have this odd belief that they are equal to men BUT are free to hit them if they're mad at them. True equality would have the guy knocking a woman out when she hits him because that's your response when a guy tries that nonsense.
This is why I don't buy feminism's bullshit any more. Because it is not based in reality. As Instapundit has pointed out, modern radical feminists (not equality feminists) want men to abide by the old code of chivalry while ignoring that the code was a two way street and women had obligations there. If the woman isn't going to act in a chivalrous manner, why the hell would the man do so?
Men aren't the one who need to become nicer and sweeter. You will see a DRAMTICALLY larger percentage of girls who hit boys than you will see vice versa.
Ann Althouse said..This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining.
Cis-gender stereotype-based shaming is ok, then? Can we call the espousal of a pro-feminist viewpoint using harsh language "unladylike" and criticize it as such without being called sexist? Are we allowed to characterize trivial "feminist" complaints as whining, nagging, or neurotic/hysterical obsession, now, or that still to "gendered?" Is this just another double standard we'll have to "act like men" and deal with? Consistency-who needs it?!
Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life.
Althouse officially joins the radfem bullies.
"Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life."
Calling a man unmanly is the equivalent of calling a woman fat and ugly. That's vicious professor.
"Calling a man unmanly is the equivalent of calling a woman fat and ugly."
It's not like calling a man a dickless twat. Let's have some real insults in here.
I'll get it started. "I wouldn't f--- her with your dick."
They tend to be sex-based. It's more challenging to go in a non-sex-based direction.
How about Norm MacDonald and the Swedish German?
The PSA conspicuously excluded addressing aggression of female and several dozen other gender orientations. I'm surprised it received PC approval from the social complex.
Why are you reading this as anti-male propaganda?! This couldn't be sweeter and more positive in the way it tries to build a culture of good men.
Trying to build a culture of good men insinuates that we have a culture of bad men.
Who are these bigots you are talking about? This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life.
Feminists whined, incessantly, about misogyny. Many college-educated radical feminists STILL do so.
You buy into some of their bullshit. Sorry, but you do.
Why in the hell should a man sit back and let others attack him? It seems "unmanly"? As opposed to rolling over and just taking it?
What do you WANT men to do? Beat the hell out of women? That seems like a poor idea.
Commenting that society is biased against men is simple reality. Noting is not the same as whining.
Feminists claim that ALL men are potential rapists. Not a tiny number --- ALL men. ALL men oppress women. ALL men need to be re-educated.
Your side poisoned the well.
Again, as has been noted, you have strict double standards in several areas. Abortion, for example: women have the right to change their mind months after sex --- but the MAN has no right to change anything once sex occurs.
Feminists do not WANT equality. They want special privileges. That is why equality feminists like Sommers and Smith are so needed. And "feminists" hate them even more than they hate men.
I think they should have asked they boys to gang rape her. After all, our campuses are full of such animals, they are not even OUTLIERS in any sense, as the UVA administration has amply demonstrated by simply stating the fact. An adorable little PSA is certainly in order to "change the culture."
I watched the video. I thought it was interesting that only one of the boys gave "it's wrong to hit" as his reason for saying no (although another's invocation of Jesus should also maybe count)--it seems like "it's wrong for boys to hit girls" was the response they wanted and not "it's wrong for people to hit other people." I'm fine with that standard, I don't mind it being taught to boys and men, and I understand the PSA's POV ( &what they were trying to illustrate).
The message, though, that a man hitting a woman during domestic violence is wrong because men shouldn't hit women, does rely on a "gendered" stereotype and/or a soft modern chivalric code--and stereotypes, codes, and reasoning of that type is in many other cases deplored by Left feminists. Those feminists decry things like showing deference to women/treating them differently in other contexts (holding doors, etc) as markers of patriarchal oppression, so it's fair for commenters here to point out that they should have a similar reaction to this example, even when the message or cause is one they would otherwise support.
HoodlumDoodlum:
The chivlaric code required men to defer to ladies, not women. When women become ambitious, aggressive, and coercive, even murderous, then they have earned the right to be treated like "one of the boys".
That said, with the progress of male-female equivalence, and female-animal equivalence, and generally human-clump of cells equivalence, that are prominent themes in modern pagan religions, it makes it difficult, although not impossible, to demonstrate chivalric deference. I think most women and men reconcile individual dignity and intrinsic value with a substantially different conclusion than is commonly portrayed in liberal cultures.
Ann, what if I speak to you, or better yet a group, very slowly, exaggeratedly so, in explaining something you already know? That everyone knows. Do you think I am implying or presuming you are a bit thick? So Glenn's point is that this ad treats men that way, as a bit thick.
Ken B:
It's not only insulting but defamatory. Their general characterization of men not only denigrates individual dignity, but fails to address aggression exhibited by the three dozen classes of gender orientations, especially the FEMENist orientation, that demands a human sacrificial right and rite. Once, a mistake, repent. Twice, and more, natural born killer.
"This obsession with misandry is, ironically, pretty unmanly. Quit whining. Get some moral structure and live a good life."
Wow ! Missed this thread all day. Yeah, you weak and wimpy guys stop complaining and hit a few girls. That'll show everyone what beasts men are (except Meade, of course).
holy shit! that's what you saw?
"Young boys, is she not beautiful? Is she not your dream made flesh, with warm eyes and budding breasts? You want so much to touch her, do you not?
You want to feel her skin, her shape, her very being: one simple caress will change your world from this point on, your fingertips upon an angel.
Touch her, my young boys: touch her! She will not pull away, she will not say 'no'. Touch her and know that Life will be like this, always."
I am Laslo.
Very European: the video plays like a children's version of "The Story of O".
And speaking of Europeans: if Roman Polanski saw this girl would he -- you know -- hit her?
I am Laslo.
People generally don’t just hit other people at random, there’s usually a reason for it and the reason is usually because they’re so overwhelmed by things like stress, frustration, anger, fear, etc. that they can’t see their way out of it and they lash out. Figure out a way to help those people and you’d go a long way to actually fixing the problem.
I don’t know that a PSA would help (I usually find them stupid and agree that they seem to be welfare programs for bad filmmakers) but if you wanted to go that route, I’d show a guy being brought to the edge. He has the day from hell where everything that can go wrong, goes wrong. Something breaks in his home, he has the worst day ever at his job, he gets a “final notice” on an overdue bill, etc. And just when it looks like he’s going to explode from all the s**t that piles up on him at once, someone (preferably an older male in an older brother or fatherly role) reaches out to him to give him help. He doesn’t have his problems solved by the end of the ad (which is utterly unrealistic and unrelateable) but he finds a constructive way to deal with all the crap he’s been dealt and hope that tomorrow might be better. And the message is, if you see someone who is hurting, don’t ignore them, try to help them.
Why all the focus on not hitting women? Why isn't there a focus on not hitting anyone? Because there is a very strong political interest in pushing a particular narrative.
I can't believe anyone is stupid enough to accept this propaganda without understanding what agenda is behind it.
the narrative is that men hit women and THIS MUST STOP.
stan:
#... class ...LivesMatter
is a natural development from
#SelectiveLivesMatter
a popular hashtag in the heady days of pro-choice activism. It's also useful for divide and conquer political strategies, where democratic leverage is secured through sponsorship of class prejudice.
another popular political meme
#AllWomenAreLadies
and its converse
#AllMenAreBarbarians
both are emergent, and may be related to a progressive rejection of the scientific fairy tale: "spontaneous conception" and its popular counterpart: "stork's delivery".
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