October 15, 2014

"So Vox’s position is that the unjust exercise of authority causes crime in black communities but prevents it on campus."

"It’s not logically impossible that this apparent contradiction has some basis in reality, but one can be forgiven for suspecting it is the product of pure prejudice."

35 comments:

Bob Ellison said...

Taranto has fallen off my Interweb map due to the WSJ's adoption of pay-per-view.

RecChief said...

If you're looking for logic from teh left, your looking will go unrewarded. See, for example the positions on air travel and ebola exposure.

sean said...

I would be willing to bet that most law professors side with Ezra Klein.

virgil xenophon said...

Thru the Looking Glass time here. Paging Alice's White Queen..

virgil xenophon said...

Saaayyy, sean, like someone to lay off your bet? Big Bucks available..

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I miss ol' Taranto, he was a lunchtime read every day.

I pointed out the same problem with the Left's inconsistent application of their idea of disparate impact a while ago. Sometimes it matters more than anything and is clear evidence of underlying systemic bias...and sometimes it's meaningless and to be expected given variations in the populations in question. The difference seemed to be whether the problem/issue/question helped or harmed some political position (or, sometimes, identity group) the Left favors. But, I mean, they're the reality based community and they're in the Party of Science. So what do I know?

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Ezra Klein is confusing because he is like 15 years old or something.

Douglas said...

sean - You would lose that bet. I believe that most law professors side with the rule of law and due process, but most are afraid to say that because in the current witch-hunt climate they would be loudly denounced as supporters of "rape culture." Happily, the letter by 28 Harvard Law Professors attacking Harvard's sexual assault regime as a violation of due process, which is discussed by Prof. Althouse in another posting, may well encourage other law professors around the country to speak up, too.

Sam L. said...

HD, the left's grasp on reality and science is like spraying one's hands with WD-40 to help climb a greased pole.

sean said...

virgil Xenophon,

Sure. How do you propose to find the answer? My proposal is that we count all the law professors in California who complain publicly about the law in question, apply the maxim qui tacet consentire videtur to the rest, and see which group is the majority.

Douglas,

Do the math. 28 is what percent of current and former Harvard law professors?

Eric said...

Althouse you magnificent, er, person, great link.

Love best of the web but hate that double negative you quoted. Shame on James.

YoungHegelian said...

Do we really have to play the "Let's smack around Ezra!" game?

Couldn't we do something that requires some intellectual effort worthy of educated adults?

As far as I can tell, there hasn't been anything that's come out of EK's mouth that isn't "wisible" (to quote Pontius Pilate).

Ann Althouse said...

"I would be willing to bet that most law professors side with Ezra Klein."

I don't think so. Look at the earlier post today with the open letter from the Harvard lawprofs.

People who understand law and care about constitutional rights shouldn't accept what Klein is saying.

sean said...

Prof. Althouse, 28 is an embarrassingly tiny fraction of the Harvard law faculty.

Most human beings have a tendency to think that their neighbors, workmates, and other peers agree with them, because most people don't like constant open conflict. But the plain fact is, law professors are not, generally, in favor of due process for politically disfavored groups. There have been many, many unjust and abusive proceedings in recent years by universities against politically disfavored students, and at no university have the law faculty ever spoken up as a body against such abuses.

rhhardin said...

I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish Wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.

rhhardin said...

The argument that its unfairness is a feature, warning the men to watch out, is Imus's joke about the value of the execution of innocent men.

"It sends a strong message : if we even think you did it, we'll get you."

Gabriel said...

Klein is perfectly consistent.

Black people are a Designated Victim Class. Male college students are not.

There is no intellectual consistency in progressivism--only will-to-power and Who? Whom?.

Brando said...

Klein's position is dangerously stupid. If applied to any other "crisis" it would be equally odious. It also is the kind of thinking that justifies a reign of terror.

Jonathan Chait to his credit took Klein down a peg on this one, and correctly noted that this sort of thinking is not "liberal" at all. "Fascist" is a better word for it.

It's depressing to think that Americans can think this way. Not surprising, though.

Brando said...

Gabriel--I'd venture that black students, who are less likely to have legacy connections or financial means, and more likely to have poor records, will be disproportionately harmed by this. Leftists may not wish it so, but maybe those are some of the eggs they need to break to make this awful omelet.

Gabriel said...

Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.

Gabriel said...

@Brando:Gabriel--I'd venture that black students, who are less likely to have legacy connections or financial means, and more likely to have poor records, will be disproportionately harmed by this. Leftists may not wish it so, but maybe those are some of the eggs they need to break to make this awful omelet.

No need to worry: black people trump women in the Designated Victim Class hierarchy.

I saw this illustrated firsthand when I went to university in the late 90s/ early 2000s. A female Asian college student was the target of racist remarks and gestures by two athletes, and she was frustrated that administration was making excuses for them in public statements to the student newspaper.

I was puzzled by this--especially at the lack of an editorial from the student newspaper, which was always way out in front on racism--until I realized that the two athletes were black, which the student newspaper took a long time to get around to mentioning.

FullMoon said...

Bob Ellison said...

Taranto has fallen off my Interweb map due to the WSJ's adoption of pay-per-view.


Yeah, I couldn't resist anymore, signed up for 12 weeks for 12bucks. Set areminder to cancel before then and resign with another credit card and aliad. Bonus fact, you get the paper in the driveway also, positioned to impress the neighbor.

holdfast said...

"I don't think so. Look at the earlier post today with the open letter from the Harvard lawprofs.

People who understand law and care about constitutional rights shouldn't accept what Klein is saying."


Yeah, people like Barack Obama, noted Fake Law Professor, and Eric Holder, former head of the Justice For Some Department.

Forget it Ann, you're part of a dying breed. Way too many lawyers and law profs put the goals of Leftism and the Democrat Party way before fealty to the Constitution.

rcocean said...

I'm in favor of the law because its simply trying to address the grey area between consensual sex and Rape on college campus.

If you're Joe College and you want to have sex with Sally Co-ed, just make sure she's 100% OK with it.

rcocean said...

Of course they'll be some injustice and some false accusations but that happens in every crime.

Revenant said...

If you're Joe College and you want to have sex with Sally Co-ed, just make sure she's 100% OK with it.

That would be a helpful suggestion, were men telepathic.

Just an old country lawyer said...

rcocean - just because she's OK with it now doesn't mean she will be OK with it after she talks to her gender studies professor or her very angry girl friends. What if she sees you chatting up another girl in a week or two and decides it was non-consensual after all? Should the diversity dean issue a stack of mutual release, hold harmless agreements that you should keep in your dorm room and make your honey sign before doing the dirty? But what if you are both drunk? It releases her from responsibility if she makes the accusation, but not Joe College if he doesn't shout j'accuse! first. But then maybe not.

Greg Hlatky said...

"The first thing you have to ask an arrested person is: To what class does he belong, where does he come from, what kind of education did he have, what is his occupation? These questions are to decide the fate of the accused. That is the quintessence of the Red Terror." - Martin Latsis, Cheka official.

rcommal said...

" ... Come with me for a minute. I want to talk to you. ... I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. ... Are you listening? ... '[Control].' ... There's a great future in [control]. Think about it. Will you think about it? ... Enough said. That's a deal."

Bruce Hayden said...

The problem with requiring express consent is that that isn't how sex works with us, or at least initially. Males are the aggressors, and females the gate keepers, for a number of reasons. One is that women have the more precious resource - wombs. And because sex for them may end up with a 20 year commitment raising the resulting child, it is important that they feel that the guy thinks that they are special. Throwing away one of their actual breeding opportunities on an unworthy male is not a good evolutionary sexual strategy. Playing hard to get by females is not exclusively human. Plenty of other species involve some sort of ritualized combat between the male and female, with the male having to subdue or overcome the female's resistance.

Maybe I am overly sensitive here, but looking back at the intimate relations I had over the last maybe 45 years, few probably wouldn't have been actionable under today's campus climate, but the women were willing and enthusiastic. But if I hadn't pushed some, we both would have been frustrated.

Bruce Hayden said...

Not wanting to get too much into the race thing, but a couple of quickies since Ferguson was mentioned. First, Officer Wilson's initial statement is out, and it appears consistent with the forensic evidence. He claims that he first noticed Brown and friend walking down the middle of the street, and requested that they move out of it. They declined. But then he heard over the radio about a strong armed robbery (class B felony in MO) where the suspects matched those two guys. When he tried to get out of the car to confront them, the door was slammed on him (another class B felony). Tried again, and one of the two grabbed for his gun, which discharged (either class A or B felony). When he finally got out of the car, he told them to freeze, and then the almost 300 lb Brown "bum rushed" him, at which time he discharged his weapon until Brown fell at his feet, with 6-7, having been hit 6-7 times.

The other related Missouri case, Vondermitt Myers, whose mother claimed he had a sandwich instead of a gun in his hands at the time he was shot and killed by the police, turns out to have had GSR mostly on his right hand, as well as inside his belt, waistband, and pockets. And is shown in photos displaying three handguns, all adding to the credibility of the officer's story that Myers shot first.

Which appears to indicate that in both of these cases, the slain Black males had essentially attacked police with deadly force, and had died as a result. Note conclusive yet, but more certain than a couple days ago.

Brando said...

What's going to happen is that once this new standard starts resulting in accusations, the entire process is going to get quickly gummed up when both parties accuse the other of initiating different activities without consent ("she says I penetrated her without consent but that was only after she stroked me without consent") and the poor idiots in charge of administering this policy will be stuck balancing competing accusations, causing the entire system of adjudicating sexual assault on campus to collapse in on itself.

So, maybe this law is a good thing in a way--it will expose this whole mess for what it is and cause a much sooner failure.

Regardless, Klein is a complete moron. He is in thrall of the leftist/fascist movement and either afraid to stand up to it or wishes to ride this tiger for his own glory.

Why are we reading this guy again? Isn't he just a child hack? There are much more experienced hacks out there we could be paying attention to.

Peter said...

"Taranto has fallen off my Interweb map due to the WSJ's adoption of pay-per-view."

Yet it's so easy to get around the paywall that it's more like a request for a donation than a demand for payment.

So which is it?

sean said...

I agree, Klein is a complete moron. That's why I get so irritated at people like Prof. Althouse, who deploy their intellectual resources against morons, rather than taking on worthier opponents, like their fellow lawprofs. (Eugene Volokh is another prime offender in this category.)

mikee said...

I am reminded of the Colonel in Catch 22 who demanded "Gimme eats!" when faced with extensive bureaucratic falderol in the base cafeteria.

Idiocy like this can be destroyed with a firm cry of "Bullshit!" repeated as necessary.