October 16, 2014

"Ebola now functions in popular discourse as a not-so-subtle, almost completely rhetorical stand-in for any combination of 'African-ness,' 'blackness,' 'foreign-ness' and 'infestation'..."

"... a nebulous but powerful threat, poised to ruin the perceived purity of western borders and bodies. Dead African bodies are the nameless placeholders for (unwarranted, racist) 'panic,' a conversation topic too heavy for the dinner table yet light enough for supermarket aisles."

ADDED: Whether you agree with the quoted analysis or not, you need to be aware that this is how some people are processing the news. The issue is swirling within our politics, and this is a separate phenomenon from the disease itself.

Time to read/reread the 1978 Susan Sontag essay "Disease as Political Metaphor."
In the sense of an infection that corrupts morally and debilitates physically, syphilis was to become a standard trope in late nineteenth- and early twentieth-century anti-Semitic polemics. In 1933 Wilhelm Reich argued that “the irrational fear of syphilis was one of the major sources of National Socialism’s political views and its anti-Semitism.” But although he perceived sexual and political phobias being projected onto a disease in the grisly harping on syphilis in Mein Kampf, it never occurred to Reich how much was being projected in his own persistent use of cancer as a metaphor for the ills of the modern era.
You need to pay to get farther at that link. Here's a link for buying the book with that and more. (I've just bought it myself.)

355 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 355 of 355
tim in vermont said...

I have to agree with ARM, we should all shut up about ebola because it hurts the Democratics at the mid-term.

RecChief said...

AReasonableMan said...
Anglelyne said...
there isn't much likelihood that ebola could become a catastrophic epidemic

Finally, something I can agree with."


Why the selective editing? you really are in campaign mode aren't you?

Anonymous said...

I don't think anyone except you has said this.

Rusty and Fen both agreed with me. Are they just being childish and acting stupid as well?

The Federal Government can't do anything right and they need to get the hell out of the way. Firestone has proven that the outbreak can be contained if we simply turn our best business leaders loose on the problem.

Is your solution to give even more power to Big Government?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Texas hospital under fire for botching treatment of first cases of deadly virus.

steve uhr said...

We can all rest easy. Congress is holding hearings.

phantommut said...

Identity politics hustlers gonna hustle.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

tim in vermont said...
I have to agree with ARM, we should all shut up about ebola because it hurts the Democratics at the mid-term.


Seems to me that it's a Texas-sized problem.

tim in vermont said...

That's right, it was the Texas Hospital's fault.

During Katrina however, the mayor of New Orleans was not responsible for the evacuation, despite long tradition otherwise.

And the governor was not responsible for first response to a disaster, despite long tradition otherwise.

But all of their fuckups where the responsibility of Bush, the US Constitution notwithstanding.

Now though, Obama is not at fault, nor his CDC. But it is the local Texas Hospital.

You know why? Because "All of the assholes are on the other side!" Right ARM?

jacksonjay said...

My daughter had two co-workers on "the plane" from Cleveland. They are working from home for 21 days. Very little panic at ground zero.

traditionalguy said...

For the record, Ellis Island in New York Harbor was our basic quarantine facility required by law to quarantine until tested successfully the flood of dirty and sick immigrants coming here from Eastern Europe in the late 1800s. Its buildings have rooms of barracks.

When one was finally rejected the ship had to take him back again sailing under the Statue of Liberty as he left with no hope and only a future of misery, poverty and pogroms.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

tim in vermont said...
But all of their fuckups where the responsibility of Bush,


The bitterness is strong in this one.

If I can offer any reassurance it is that Bush would still be viewed as a remarkable failure even in the absence of Katrina. Doesn't even make his top ten.


Unknown said...

ARM is a one man wagon circler.

btw - Who thinks the head of the CDC is over his head and should resign?

Why didn't the CDC do more to help the unequipped Texas hospital?

History provides clues.
Obama administration failed to implement all of the CDC’s advice to prevent an Ebola outbreak

mirror anyone? or maybe a 16 oz soft-drink?

Shanna said...

"hey, I'm at a much greater risk of dying from lightning or a car accident or the flu than from an accident at a nuclear plant, so I guess it's no big deal if we slack off on adhering to all those tight-ass safety and containment rules that used to be considered SOP in plants". That there isn't much likelihood that ebola could become a catastrophic epidemic here is not the freakin' point.

The difference is between deaths that are preventable and deaths that are not. The CDC seems to be thinking it can just handwave a few small clusters of 10-20 infected, with maybe half of them dying. I'm not cool with that.

Adding to my concern is the fact that the more patients you have, the more chance you have for things to actually get out of control (and for you to run across so called 'super spreaders' and that's leaving off any purposeful spreading of disease, as we saw during the HIV epidemic). I'm also not happy that this incident is making me lose faith that the CDC has any ability to handle a serious disease outbreak, because they have so far come off as completely unprepared. What happens if we have another flu outbreak like we did in 1918? Does anyone believe these people are the ones we should put in charge of handling something like that?

Mark said...

Where is the Surgeon General in all this?

Funny, no one on the right brings up the fact that it's been 11 months since one was nominated but no confirmation.

But hey, let's blame the administration for functioning poorly as nominees cannot be confirmed into leadership positions.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

From April's link:

Five Democratic House members on Wednesday called for hearings into budget cuts at the National Institutes of Health and CDC.

The lawmakers said NIH has lost $1.2 billion in funding over the last four years and that a CDC program that supports public workers was slashed 16 percent during the past four years, while a hospital preparedness program lost 44 percent of its funding.

alan markus said...

A Retarded Man said:

There have been at last eight cases of Ebola treated in the United States. Four were US missionaries, one was a NBC cameraman, one foreign national Liberian, now dead, and two US nurses infected at a Texas hospital.

At only one facility was there are failure to adequately quarantine the disease. Somehow the CDC did not fail at any of the other facilities.



In those other cases (not the Texas ones)did each facility have any advance notice that the people had the virus? For some reason, I think in some of those cases it was already known that they were infected with the virus, not put into the ER waiting room waiting for a diagnoses.

buwaya said...

No Philippine travel ban from the US -

Yet.

There is a travel ban from West Africa.

Peter said...

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And sometimes a deadly disease is just a deadly disease.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt Sablan said...

"But hey, let's blame the administration for functioning poorly as nominees cannot be confirmed into leadership positions."

-- There is someone doing that job, undoubtedly. We don't simply let work pile up until someone is nominated. Here's the acting Surgeon General's bio.

Unknown said...

National Institute of Health blames Ebola on America's most dangerous terrorist group, the Lacka Fundeen."
-DB

It's common knowledge that the NIH's response to the current crisis has nothing to do with budget cuts.
This is a government entity that just spent millions on origami condoms. Waste abounds - and suddenly their failures are due to "budget cuts". riiiiight.

How much does it cost to send aid and instruction to a Texas hospital anyway?

oh well.. the blind-faith wagon circler has his talking points down.

MadisonMan said...

Where is the Surgeon General in all this?

The unspoken assumption: If only we threw enough government bureaucrats at the problem, we could fix it!

RecChief said...

Nurse diagnosed with Ebola had been cleared to fly by CDC official

For you ARM

HoodlumDoodlum said...

ARM: The Washington Post just gave the argument that only Republicans are to blame for cutting ebola funding 4 Pinnochios and the article's head line calls it absurd, but you keep f*ckin' that chicken, buddy!

The Absurd Claim That Only Republicans Are to Blame For Cuts to Ebola Research

RecChief said...

madisonfella said...

Is your solution to give even more power to Big Government?


Nope. In fact I stated my thoughts on this earlier in the thread.

Michael said...

ARM

I hope that the Democrats pursue this line of thinking, that budget "cuts" are the cause of our not having a solution to Ebola.

Because I want to discuss the efficacy of dozens of projects that have continued apace.

I believe that Democrats are incapable of understanding that money is fungible and that a cut for the entire government does not mean a pari passu cut of every line item. What intelligent people do when there is a cut is to stop the funding of the Transgender Beauty contest and the study of left or right handed monkeys and move those dollars to important programs; like disease control (that would be a good name for a focused government entity by the way: Center for Disease Control).

Would love to debate one of these jackasses.

gerry said...

Our ever-vigilant Democrat/Prog management at work.

100-150 unscreened West Africans enter the country every day.

We're not talking 1918-1919 Spanish flu infected populations moving around yet, but it's increasingly looking stupid. And the 100-150 range is true only if you believe CDC claims that they're screening 94% of arrivals.

RecChief said...

And the governor was not responsible for first response to a disaster, despite long tradition otherwise.

Not only tradition, but law. The governor needed to make a request of the Federal Government for assistance. That in no way excuses the lack of leadership at FEMA during that time.

buwaya said...

The other Ebola cases in the US were contracted and diagnosed overseas, the victims were flown in specifically for treatment for this condition, and presumably the hospitals they were brought to were aware and prepared.

The Texas case was the only one where the victims were diagnosed in the US at a hospital that did not know what it was dealing with until the diagnosis was made.

Part of the nightmare is that shortly, if this outbreak continues to spread, every similar disease such as the common cold and stomach flu will have to be assumed to be Ebola.

Shanna said...

Where is the Surgeon General in all this?

The unspoken assumption: If only we threw enough government bureaucrats at the problem, we could fix it!

Indeed, MM! Which is utter nonsense. We don't need MORE bureaucrats, we need competent ones. CDC has taken the lead on this, and that makes complete sense as they are the centers for DISEASE control. It's just that they are doing a bad job.

RecChief said...

SEveral things the CDC should be spending more money on such as resistant TB, antibiotic bugs or "superbugs"as they are called.

yet, millions spent on "language of drunk texts to gays"? Lesbian obesity? what other boondoggles lurk in the CDC's budget?

Focus on priorities is what is lacking. Hubris is in abundance. And the argument about "Bush did it too." actually strengthens the argument for a smaller federal government with a narrow, focused set of priorities. Thanks for finally seeing the light.

damikesc said...

There have been at last eight cases of Ebola treated in the United States. Four were US missionaries, one was a NBC cameraman, one foreign national Liberian, now dead, and two US nurses infected at a Texas hospital.

So, by your math, NONE before this little outbreak here.

Nice to know.

At only one facility was there are failure to adequately quarantine the disease. Somehow the CDC did not fail at any of the other facilities.

The CDC had a possibly contagious woman flying to OH. The CDC had NO safeguards in place to handle this. The CDC had SIX YEARS to develop plans for this problem that wasn't unknown in 2008.

If this is "not screwing up", I cannot fathom what constitutes screwing up for you.

The number of facilities that can HANDLE ebola at all is miniscule. And the gear to handle it is extremely expensive.

Yet, we aren't even trying to limit our exposure in any way.

...and we aren't even discussing the enterovirus problem that Obama's winner of an immigration policy is turning into a problem as well.

damikesc said...

Texas hospital under fire for botching treatment of first cases of deadly virus.

Yes, it's those nurses at the scene of the problem who are responsible, not the agency who had years to plan out protocols but never actually did so.

Note, somebody called you out on this kind of thing in this thread earlier.

Funny, no one on the right brings up the fact that it's been 11 months since one was nominated but no confirmation.

So, it's the lack of a "non-acting" SG that is the cause of the CDC not doing its job?

Hey, we need to appoint an ebola czar...oh wait, we did THAT too and it didn't work out?

But hey, let's blame the administration for functioning poorly as nominees cannot be confirmed into leadership positions.

Pretty sure the CDC has a head.

And, pretty sure, they did a shit job regardless.

Five Democratic House members on Wednesday called for hearings into budget cuts at the National Institutes of Health and CDC.

The lawmakers said NIH has lost $1.2 billion in funding over the last four years and that a CDC program that supports public workers was slashed 16 percent during the past four years, while a hospital preparedness program lost 44 percent of its funding.


Oh, I HOPE they do this.

Let's look at what they're spending money on.

THat'd be a hoot.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So there seems to be broad agreement. Ebola was caused by Texans and a bunch of Republicans in the House not doing their job.

Can't argue with that.

John Lynch said...

Ebola can be a big epidemic. Why not? It's doing exactly what we'd expect if it was going to grow worldwide.

AIDS started somewhere. Plague started somewhere. Tuberculosis, Malaria, etc. Everything has a beginning.

What do you call someone who consistently makes correct predictions about Ebola?

An alarmist.

Someone who is consistently wrong?

Reasonable.

RecChief said...

Still struggling to get command of the country’s response to Ebola more than six months after the current outbreak started in West Africa, Centers for Disease Control Director Thomas Frieden was left to spell out a principle that should have been set weeks or months ago -- and backed up with stringent enforcement.


But, by stopping short of issuing mandatory protocols, the President again fell back on the catch-as-catch-can system that produced such disastrous results in Dallas. He did so at the peril of health-care providers and the public -- because trust that individual hospitals here, there and everywhere would perform superbly is decidedly misplaced.


Both of those are from the New York Daily News.

ARM and madisonfella both seem to see this as a Democrat vs Republican argument. Perhaps a Progressive vs. Conservative argument. It's not.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Mark said...

Where is the Surgeon General in all this?

Funny, no one on the right brings up the fact that it's been 11 months since one was nominated but no confirmation.


Yes, damn those Republicans controlling the Senate for refusing to schedule a confirmation vote.

*facepalm*

RecChief said...

here's another one from that article:

Neither Obama nor Frieden had the sense to issue directives with the firm, clear quality of standards sought by National Nurses United, representing thousands of nurses across the country.

tim in vermont said...

Yes, damn those Republicans controlling the Senate for refusing to schedule a confirmation vote.

They can confirm him by a simple majority too.

Doug said...

As could only be written by someone who has completely embraced her own victim status.

hstad said...

Blogger AReasonableMan said...

Anglelyne said...
there isn't much likelihood that ebola could become a catastrophic epidemic

Finally, something I can agree with.

10/16/14, 1:30 PM

LIBERIA BEGS TO DIFFER!

tim in vermont said...

Vivek Murthy, a Harvard Medical School instructor who founded Doctors for Obama (which changed its name to Doctors for America), was nominated in November 2013. Rear Admiral Boris Lushniak has been acting surgeon general since Regina Benjamin’s resignation in July 2013. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) put a hold on Murthy’s nomination in February, noting “the majority of Dr. Murthy’s non-clinical experience is in political advocacy.”

Just what we need at the CDC, a community organizer!

hstad said...

While the white guilty racists write/report on this junk, look what African countries have done to combat this disease!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AF_EBOLA_AFRICA_CONTAINMENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-16-14-24-38

Alex said...

If you care about competence, vote GOP!

RecChief said...

"hstad said...
While the white guilty racists write/report on this junk, look what African countries have done to combat this disease!"

They contained it by closing their borders? Don't they know that's racist? Better send ARM to lecture them on it.

RecChief said...

"tim in vermont said...
Vivek Murthy, a Harvard Medical School instructor who founded Doctors for Obama (which changed its name to Doctors for America), was nominated in November 2013. Rear Admiral Boris Lushniak has been acting surgeon general since Regina Benjamin’s resignation in July 2013. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) put a hold on Murthy’s nomination in February, noting “the majority of Dr. Murthy’s non-clinical experience is in political advocacy.”
"


I'm remembering back to the days of C. Everrett Koop when he incensed the Religious Right in this country by suggesting that, at that moment at least, the best way to control the spread of AIDS was condom use. It wasn't what they wanted to hear, but he was right. Didn't let political concerns stand in the way of him asserting what was at the time the best way to limit the spread of the virus.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

RecChief said...

I'm remembering back to the days of C. Everrett Koop when he incensed the Religious Right in this country by suggesting that, at that moment at least, the best way to control the spread of AIDS was condom use. It wasn't what they wanted to hear, but he was right. Didn't let political concerns stand in the way of him asserting what was at the time the best way to limit the spread of the virus.

Not true. The best way to control the spread of AIDS was, and still is, abstinence. The best policy for the government to advocate may be condom use, since people are more likely to follow that advice.

RecChief said...

Not true. The best way to control the spread of AIDS was, and still is, abstinence. The best policy for the government to advocate may be condom use, since people are more likely to follow that advice.

Yeah, jsut looked up the quote, you were right I was wrong.

The quote was: "the best protection right now, barring abstinence, is the use of a condom"

Bryan C said...

What race is the influenza virus? I bet it's Asian. Cholera seems kinda Hispanic, maybe White Hispanic.

Wait, can viruses be transgendered?

Beach Brutus said...

Regarding the CDC vs Texas hospital blame game; I understand that the protocols used by the hospital did not included full hazmat, positive pressure suits etc. The staff used paper gowns, double gloves, and surgical masks cover by a plastic shield. I don't know if that is what the CDC says was adequate but in about two minutes I looked up the following from Wikipedia (forgive the long quote):

"Biosafety level 4[edit]


" The Galveston National Laboratory BSL-4 (P4) lab on the Campus of the University of Texas Medical Branch
This level is required for work with dangerous and exotic agents that pose a high individual risk of aerosol-transmitted laboratory infections, agents which cause severe to fatal disease in humans for which vaccines or other treatments are not available, such as Bolivian and Argentine hemorrhagic fevers, Marburg virus, Ebola virus, Lassa virus, Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever, and various other hemorrhagic diseases. This level is also used for work with agents such as smallpox that are considered dangerous enough to require the additional safety measures, regardless of vaccination availability. When dealing with biological hazards at this level the use of a positive pressure personnel suit, with a segregated air supply is mandatory. The entrance and exit of a level four biolab will contain multiple showers, a vacuum room, an ultraviolet light room, and other safety precautions designed to destroy all traces of the biohazard. Multiple airlocks are employed and are electronically secured to prevent both doors from opening at the same time. All air and water service going to and coming from a biosafety level 4 (or P4) lab will undergo similar decontamination procedures to eliminate the possibility of an accidental release.

"Agents with a close or identical antigenic relationship to biosafety level 4 agents are handled at this level until sufficient data are obtained either to confirm continued work at this level, or to work with them at a lower level.

"Members of the laboratory staff have specific and thorough training in handling extremely hazardous infectious agents and they understand the primary and secondary containment functions of the standard and special practices, the containment equipment, and the laboratory design characteristics. They are supervised by qualified scientists who are trained and experienced in working with these agents. Access to the laboratory is strictly controlled by the laboratory director.

"The facility is either in a separate building or in a controlled area within a building, which is completely isolated from all other areas of the building. A specific facility operations manual is prepared or adopted. Building protocols for preventing contamination often use negatively pressurized facilities, which, even if compromised, would severely inhibit an outbreak of aerosol pathogens.

"Within work areas of the facility, all activities are confined to Class III biological safety cabinets, or Class II biological safety cabinets used with one-piece positive pressure personnel suits ventilated by a life support system."

If the CDC did not convey this type of information to the hospital, then it seems it was derelict in its duty.

On the other hand, how easy would it have been for someone at the hospital, out of mere curiosity if nothing else, to have looked this up?

And finally, everything this article describes is consistent with what we all have seen in every TV show or movie from the past 25 years dealing with highly infections diseases.

A Red Red Rose said...

By repeating this, you perpetuate it, Ann. That's something you commonly acknowledge in other contexts, for example with suicides. You seem to have blinders on when it comes to questions of racism. As Derrida himself acknowledged, you can't deconstruct death. People are dying, and it's wicked to blame racism. Please remove this post.

Lydia said...

A trip down memory lane -- Obama on Sept. 16, speaking at the CDC in Atlanta:

First and foremost, I want the American people to know that our experts, here at the CDC and across our government, agree that the chances of an Ebola outbreak here in the United States are extremely low. We’ve been taking the necessary precautions, including working with countries in West Africa to increase screening at airports so that someone with the virus doesn’t get on a plane for the United States. In the unlikely event that someone with Ebola does reach our shores, we’ve taken new measures so that we’re prepared here at home. We’re working to help flight crews identify people who are sick, and more labs across our country now have the capacity to quickly test for the virus. We’re working with hospitals to make sure that they are prepared, and to ensure that our doctors, our nurses and our medical staff are trained, are ready, and are able to deal with a possible case safely.

I guess somehow they missed the Dallas hospital. What are the odds that other hospitals also didn't get the memo?

Seems clear to me that the CDC dropped the ball -- they very obviously did not "make sure" the hospitals were prepared.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

The democrat lie that "cuts" are to blame, is just that - A BIG LIE.
Four Pinocchio's

(The gullible and the stubborn true-believers remain faithful. The golden calf must be worshipped. The wagons will be circled. This administration is not responsible for ANYTHING.)

from the link:
Generally, Congress gave the NIH about what the president requested — sometimes more, sometimes less. In 2013, for instance, Congress gave the NIH more than what the White House had requested, but then $1.5 billion was taken away by sequestration.

Whose idea was sequestration? It was originally a White House proposal, designed to force Congress to either swallow painful cuts or boost taxes. The law mandating sequestration passed on a bipartisan vote — and then Republicans embraced it even more strongly when they could not reach a grand budget deal with President Obama.

For fiscal year 2015, the documents show, it was the Obama White House that proposed to cut the NIH’s budget from the previous year. Moreover, we should note that President George W. Bush, a Republican, is responsible for significantly boosting NIH’s funding in the early years of his presidency.



What? - no way!

Kirk Parker said...

Fernandinande,

"Is Thomas Sowell the only black writer who isn't a bilge-spewing self-obsessed moron?"

No. Walter Williams, Allen West, Condi Rice (not a full-time writer but I do see the occasional op-ed from her), Stephen Carter, Shelby Steele... the list is actually fairly long.


Fen,

Never understood the logic in Sanger's eugenics?

Dude..........

Michael K said...

"If I can offer any reassurance it is that Bush would still be viewed as a remarkable failure by me even in the absence of Katrina.

FIFY

Anonymous said...

Mark writes;

"Where is the Surgeon General in all this?

Funny, no one on the right brings up the fact that it's been 11 months since one was nominated but no confirmation.

But hey, let's blame the administration for functioning poorly as nominees cannot be confirmed into leadership positions. "

Mark, the problem for those of us on the right is, there are so many screw ups, it's hard to keep track.

But since you insist, let's bring this up as yet ANOTHER screw up of this administration.

What's the problem with King Putt that he can't even get Harry Reid to confirm one of his nominations? Is Harry Reid a racist?

furious_a said...

For fiscal year 2015, the documents show, it was the Obama White House that proposed to cut the NIH's budget...

Was it a "cut" (reduction in the rate if growth) or a cut-cut?

mtrobertsattorney said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
furious_a said...

ARM keeps piling up "budget cuts" Pinocchios he's going to get a deviated septum

Fen said...

ARM is a one man wagon circler.

You should have seen his Skittles and Tea dance over at Legal Insurrection during the Trayvon Martin trial. No shame.

No credibility either.

John Lynch said...

What is valid about the cultural critique is that Ebola is going to be far worse in Africa than anywhere else. As long as the African outbreak continues the rest of the world is in danger, too. No one much cared about the epidemic until it started to spread our of Africa, which tells its own story.

I was waiting for Ebola news to show up on the Althouse radar, as an indicator of when the educated public in America started to care. That date was far too late to stop the epidemic.

I'm not so worried about the USA, at least until late next year. It's fairly easy for us to quarantine, once we fire enough bureaucrats and take the disease seriously. Americans will demand that our government react, and it will.

The problem is India, or Mexico, or the Philippines. There's no reason Ebola can't spread to these countries and start killing people. Once we have outbreaks all over the world attention will turn away from Africa. And that's the real danger, that like AIDS no one will do much about Africans for 10-15 years after the epidemic begins.

The best thing for Africa is to contain the virus in the smallest possible area, and to prevent it from spreading to other continents. That way the world can focus on the people that need help the most. The flight ban is a good idea, just to save the rest of the continent and other Third World nations. We have a moral obligation to prevent an Ebola holocaust in poor countries.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Fen said...
You should have seen his Skittles and Tea dance over at Legal Insurrection during the Trayvon Martin trial.


You lied about this before. I called you on it. You couldn't produce a link. And, now you lied again.

Sad, sad, sad.

Kirk Parker said...

richard mcenroe,

Marburg Hemmoragic Fever is from a different, though related, virus.

IIRC it's actually a lot more contagious than Ebola, but that also means outbreaks burn themselves out more quickly.


We lived in Maridi, Sudan, in the '80s, beginning 4 years after this outbreak. Believe me the memory was seared in people's minds, even though the official figures are fairly modest (124 fatalities out of 238 confirmed cases, from a total area population -- just a SWAG, mind you -- of 15,000.)

Kirk Parker said...

Alexander,

"anymore than a Tutsi and Hutu get along simply because you rename them both "Rwandans'."

I do not mean to defend Crack's rantings, either on this subject or any other... but you've got the basic picture of Rwanda wrong.





Anglelyne,

"(I'm pretty sure I've used disease metaphors unthinkingly a couple of times already today alone, and I wasn't even trying to "other" anybody.)"

Whoa, can you really be that lacking in self-awareness? Sorry, it's off to the reeducation camp for you, babe! It's ok; many people do survive the experience.

Babaluigi said...

I wonder where OSHA figures into this situation of employee exposure to these blood-borne pathogens. Anyone who has to deal with OSHA compliance knows how detailed the requirements can be--seemingly to the point of overkill at times---although in the case of Ebola, maybe there is no such threshold. There was obvious negligence on the part of the hospital, and whomever was in charge of the initial cleanup of the Duncan residence. What about the work conditions for the various baggage handlers, cleanup crews and the TSA employees? (I never check bags when I fly , so that everything I need gets to my destination, but I will ask them to change their gloves if they feel a need to further examine my belongings.)

If this thing takes off and becomes an epidemic, all employers would do well to examine their preparedness for dealing with "spewing" employees and customers. Actually, those procedures are already supposed to be in place:
Occupational Safety and Health Standards/ Toxic and Hazardous Substances
• Standard Number: 1910.1030
• Title: Bloodborne pathogens

"...Scope and Application. This section applies to all occupational exposure to blood or other potentially infectious materials as defined by paragraph (b) of this section...Contaminated means the presence or the reasonably anticipated presence of blood or other potentially infectious materials on an item or surface..."

SukieTawdry said...

Hannah Giorgis, the author of this diatribe, describes herself as a nappy-headed 23-year-old daughter of ethiopian/eritrean immigrants who is attempting to navigate diasporic Blackness with a US passport and an awkward Amharic tongue. She's a "feminist organizer" who majored in Afro-American Studies at Dartmouth and organizes and writes frequently about GLBT issues. In other words, she has a lot of axes to grind.

The Crack Emcee said...

Kirk Parker,

"Is Thomas Sowell the only black writer who isn't a bilge-spewing self-obsessed moron?"

No. Walter Williams, Allen West, Condi Rice (not a full-time writer but I do see the occasional op-ed from her), Stephen Carter, Shelby Steele... the list is actually fairly long.

Right - there's a whole FIVE, who whites approve of, right there - against the 300 million blacks they despise, daily, for (apparently) thinking about the condition of their lives in the unapproved way.

No white supremacy involved in whites trying to choose our leaders, and even our message, for us - none at all. They're entitled to do that, because they're white and have always had our best interests at heart, as history inevitably shows.

Being as firmly involved as possible, in the conduct and direction of black lives, has always been white's way of showing us exactly how free we really are,...

tim in vermont said...

Actually, Rand Paul, the medical doctor, held up the fellow who founded "Doctors for Obama"'s nomination for surgeon general because the nominees only non clinical experience was as a political activist.

Just what we need right now, another good soldier for "Organizing for America" like, you know, Lois Lernerat the IRS.

tim in vermont said...

As I recall, Ralph Ellison was pretty good, among the best.

CWJ said...

I come back a few hours later, and we're at 261 comments and counting; with most of the comment momentum being driven by ARM.

I suppose you all get some psychic benefit from poking ARM, but you're only giving him/her what s/he craves.

S/he's nothing more than an attention whore. From the selective quotes of other's comments, to ignoring direct requests to support his comments or state his position, to his blogger handle, down to his avatar, it's all a pose designed to get a rise out of you. For him/her it's nothing more than a sophomoric rhetorical game. Don't play it.

Garage may in fact be an inept true believer. Madisonfella is all over the map but I doubt s/he's completely insincere. Robert Cook is sincerity incarnate in his own way. And Crack may be obsessed, but not a troll for trolling sake other than perhaps his blog.

However, ARM is just an attention whore. If s/he's over 30, it's time to grow up.

Ctmom4 said...

@ ARM " But it is not disgusting to blame the CDC in an effort to inflame partisan passions right before an election? Some fancy conditional morality you've got working there. Still better than the conspiracy theories that you usually peddle."

How can you not blame the CDC? They gave the hospital inadequate instructions for how the staff was to deal with an infected patient. They have been giving confusing and mixed messages to the public - " you can't get Ebola from someone on a bus, but an infected person can give it"? They told the nurse it was ok to fly with a fever. If this was the Bush administration, would you be defending the CDC? I think not.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So the budgets of both NIH and CDC have declined in real terms. If the house Republicans are not responsible then are you arguing that Obama has reduced discretionary spending entirely on his own initiative?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Ctmom4 said...
How can you not blame the CDC? They gave the hospital inadequate instructions for how the staff was to deal with an infected patient.


Dr. Daniel Varga, the chief clinical officer for Texas Health Resources, the medical group that oversees Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital has already acknowledged multiple mistakes. Texas Hospital Director 'Deeply Sorry' for 'Mistakes'. They have made a difficult situation vastly worse by their incompetence.

There have been no screw ups at other hospitals managing the same disease. Yet, it's the CDC's fault?

Michael said...

Crack:

There are many hundreds of highly successful black executives in the US. Men and women who run or are senior officials in massive companies, major divisions of multinationals, real estate investment companies, investment banking firms.and who serve on the boards of other companies.

These men and women should be celebrated and emulated in the same way white people celebrate and emulate those who are successful and who have preceded them.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

CWJ said...
Garage may in fact be an inept true believer. Madisonfella is all over the map but I doubt s/he's completely insincere. Robert Cook is sincerity incarnate in his own way. And Crack may be obsessed, but not a troll for trolling sake other than perhaps his blog.


So multiple posters were pushing the ridiculous line that Obama is at fault for 'EBOLA' but I am at fault. Interesting argument you have there. Apparently right wing trolls are invisible to you. I treat arguments with the respect they deserve. There's a lot of really stupid arguments out there.

Michael said...

ARM

Take a stroll through the CDC website and get back to us with the urgency of much of their focus.

Extra amount of activity not related to the control of disease. That would be a good name for a government agency and one we should consider establishing. We could call it the Center for Disease Control and its object would be to focus on what its name would describe.

Fen said...

What is valid about the cultural critique is that Ebola is going to be far worse in Africa than anywhere else.

Thats a false premise, easily knocked down. Just the first few ways that come to mind:

1) Ebola prefers American climate to African. It does better in colder drier regions

2) Most African vectors die out because the infected don't get far before ebola kills them. American airlines and subways are its wet dream

3) Hubris. African authorities, having experienced several outbreaks, have a healthy respect for Ebola. Americans (like the OP and ARM here) treat it as a PCBS prop to advance their "social justice" cause. We are so confident in our superior health care system - but one case shut down the ICU ward in a major metropolitan hospital. What happens when there are 1,000 patients? What happens when nurses decide to not show up for work? Our superior health care system will, for all intents and purposes, be not much better than Africa's.

4)A decent sized outbreak gives Ebola a chance to gain a permanent foothold in local animal hosts, where it will swap back and forth between animals and humans until it can mutate into an even more lethal virus, possibly airborne. Imagine if it decides deer, cats or dogs are its new home? We will be having these discussions for generations.

5) Secondary chaos. We don't really see how Ebola can destroy a civilization because, lets face it, most african nations already are. But America is like an obese patient that's already gobbled up the design margins - its like the real estate or tech bubble just waiting to be popped. Studies show that just a 2 week failure in the EBT card system would result in food rights in every major american city. LA Riots on a national scale. We take so much for granted, we don't realize how just the slightest push could send everything vectoring out of control.

So I think its short-sighted (and somewhat arrogant) to compare the African experience to what the American experience would be.

The logic that we should focus on stopping it in Africa is more like CA firefighters deciding to squelch the main blaze and ignore efforts to create firebreaks.

John Lynch said...

The way I tell that someone is a hack is to look at where they end up. No matter what path they take, how sophisticated their writing is, or how good their arguments are, if they always end up at the party line then they are a hack. There's no point in reading something if the end result is predictable.

Plus, it's boring.

Ebola doesn't care who wins the election. Neither do the people dying from it. Stop spinning for once.

Unknown said...

Texas hospital obviously made mistakes, and look - they offer apologies and humility.

What do we get from your party leaders, ARM? Not leadership.
Nope. We get Hubris. Ineptitude. Blame.

Fen said...

And John, I usually find your arguments to be sound and reasonable, even when I disagree.

This time I think you are overlooking some factors. But please don't take it personally (I doubt you will, as have been one of the more level-headed commenters at Althouse over the years)

hombre said...

"Ebola is the Republicans' fault!"

Four Pinocchios a WaPo, that bastion of conservative bias. But Democrat ads still run.

furious_a said...

"hey, I'm at a much greater risk of dying from lightning or a car accident or the flu than...

Except that a lightning strike is a stable event (one lightning strike does not trigger another) and an infections disease is not (one infected person can infect others). So the comparison is a fallacy.

CWJ said...

And right on cue, ARM @ 5:48 appears to prove my point.

jr565 said...

Its thinking like this that would lead to infections spreading because the alternative is that there is a perception that you might br a racist if you think there is a risk of a disease spreading.
Does Ebola discriminate though? no. The nurse who got it is Asian, and the missionary who got itis white. If the origin was in Canada as opposed to Liberia I would want them to seal the border and block flights too.

Fen said...

"So the comparison is a fallacy"

Be gentle - the Left can only argue in facebook memes. Anything more might involve ditching tribal emotionalism for logic.

Tarrou said...

I hear the Ebola crime rate is down.

jr565 said...

ARM is like the guy who denies aids is a real disease while it ravages the gay community. It may be bad, but its not CATASTROPHIC. Well, not yet. But how far along are we in the life of the disease in this country? By the way, what was ARM's position on avian flu at the time the dems were demagoging Bush for not doing enough to combat avian flu.

jr565 said...

Shanna wrote:
No. Ebola is scary because it has very high death rates, scary symptoms like hemorrhaging, and because a ton of people read The Hot Zone.

also because there's no cure, except for experimental ones.Also because you can bleed from your eyeballs.

John Lynch said...

Fen-

Sure, all those things could happen. I'm very, very worried about complacency when dealing with Ebola.

We put too much faith on previous experience with Ebola over the last 40 years. Too many "experts" haven't been to the epidemic that's happening in Africa right now. Too little data is being gathered, for understandable reasons. It seems to me that it's not quite the same disease, and we don't know why.

If this was the first outbreak of Ebola we would be much more cautious and much more likely to learn what the disease can and can't do.

As it is, there's a default assumption that this is just another outbreak that will run its course and go back into the jungle. There is no evidence that is the case.

Babaluigi said...

Oh no, here I go...

Yes, ARM, the mistakes made were greatly the fault of the CDC for not having educated and therefore helped prepare American healthcare institutions about the Ebola threat. Since the disease had not spread to such large numbers in the past, it seems to me it was foolish not to notice something was different this time and to consider it could jump the Atlantic. At the least, there should already have been a quickly-activated response team in the wings...(and I question the efficacy of a team which will "be there in 24 hours", the new idea espoused at the hearings today) So far, the American aid workers,the nurses, and the cameraman have been sent to very specifically purposed (for level 4 Biohazard) institutions. There are currently only 4 such places in the US, and their available beds are now 1/5 to 1/6 full. No one else had been made ready, and much of the information about what is needed to be safe and handle Ebola patients just went out to administrators a few days ago.

Again, why were "we" taken by surprise?

Oh look, the CDC has an "Infectious Disease Framework"...(a few exerpts below--please note the dates when this was last updated and reviewed)...I suppose it is a start, but they do not even seem to be using these guidelines to deal with this now that it is a reality on our shores:

CDC's Infectious Disease Framework
Page last reviewed: July 23, 2014
Page last updated: March 28, 2014
Content source: Office of Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

CDC’s ID FRAMEWORK Three
Overarching Elements

Element 1. Strengthen public health fundamentals, including infectious disease surveillance, laboratory detection, and epidemiologic investigation
Element 2. Identify and implement high‐impact public health interventions to reduce infectious diseases
Element 3. Develop and advance policies to prevent, detect, and control infectious diseases

Examples of Key Activities to Meet Element 1 Priorities
...Modernize infectious disease surveillance...
...Intensifying surveillance for unusual health events
•...Using evolving health IT tools to provide rapid feedback and alerts to hospitals, clinicians, patients, and public health practitioners–
...Providing feedback to hospital administrators and public health officials on the efficacy (and cost‐effectiveness) of infectious disease prevention practices

...Using lessons learned from outbreak responses to strengthen overall preparedness, including distribution and use of emergency medical countermeasures and diagnostics development..."

furious_a said...

If the house Republicans are not responsible then are you arguing that Obama has reduced discretionary spending entirely on his own initiative?

Poor ARM, where's he going to find room for all those Pinnochios?

In 2013, for instance, Congress gave the NIH more than what the White House had requested, but then $1.5 billion was taken away by sequestration.

Whose idea was sequestration? It was originally a White House proposal, designed to force Congress to either swallow painful cuts or boost taxes.
[..]
For fiscal year 2015, the documents show, it was the Obama White House that proposed to cut the NIH’s budget from the previous year.


but wait, there's MORE!

Before 2008, the agency received less than $6 billion a year. In fiscal year 2013, the White House proposed a cut in CDC’s funding, but Congress added about $700 million. In 2014, the administration again proposed reducing the budget, but Congress boosted it to $6.9 billion...

Obama cuts, Congress boosts.

jr565 said...

ARM wrote:Ctmom4 said...
How can you not blame the CDC? They gave the hospital inadequate instructions for how the staff was to deal with an infected patient.

Dr. Daniel Varga, the chief clinical officer for Texas Health Resources, the medical group that oversees Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital has already acknowledged multiple mistakes. Texas Hospital Director 'Deeply Sorry' for 'Mistakes'. They have made a difficult situation vastly worse by their incompetence.

There have been no screw ups at other hospitals managing the same disease. Yet, it's the CDC's fault?

who let a nurse fly even though she was symptomatic and had just treated someone with Ebola! and since went on to develop Ebola? If her being symptomatic and flying is not a cause for concern, why is the CDC setting up tests at airports to see whether people have elevated temperatures and this might have Ebola? (And if so, presumably they won't be allowed to fly until its shown that they don't have Ebola).
And why, after they transport people with Ebola are the airlines incinerating the seats and sanitizing the planes for hours with hydrogen peroxide?
All of those things are occuring becuase this country is not taking Ebola seriously.

If this were BUsh, we KNOW what you and people like you would be saying ARM.
Because we actually have a history of seeing what OBama DID say when the discussion was avian flu.

MadisonMan said...

Yet, it's the CDC's fault?

CDC = Center for Disease Control. Is this disease controlled, do you think? Yes or no?

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that the people who scoff at any concern that Ebola might spread tend to be the same ones who take care to buy organic spinach and start coughing if somebody lights up a cigarette 2 blocks away.

Of course, they're not worried that they themselves will ever be in danger. Only a few nobodies in Texas are sick right now. Other people's kids. Not theirs.

BTW, what is the National Guard going to do in Liberia to "fight" Ebola? Shoot at it?

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that the people who scoff at any concern that Ebola might spread tend to be the same ones who take care to buy organic spinach and start coughing if somebody lights up a cigarette 2 blocks away.

Of course, they're not worried that they themselves will ever be in danger. Only a few nobodies in Texas are sick right now. Other people's kids. Not theirs.

BTW, what is the National Guard going to do in Liberia to "fight" Ebola? Shoot at it?

Anonymous said...

Opps, please excuse the double post.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

furious_a: Except that a lightning strike is a stable event (one lightning strike does not trigger another) and an infections disease is not (one infected person can infect others). So the comparison is a fallacy.

Uh, yeah. That's why I put the statement you're responding to in quotes, as an example of why people making such comparisons are being stupid. Not sure why you snipped that little bit out and responded to it as if I were defending that line of reasoning.

Anonymous said...

Madison Man said: "CDC = Center for Disease Control. Is this disease controlled, do you think? Yes or no?"

Well, no, but at least they've tackled the tough issues of why people like Seinfeld reruns and why lesbians are fat.

And I'm sure if they only had had a few more billions to spend, they would have certainly told that nurse not to get on that plane.

hombre said...

arm: "If the house Republicans are not responsible then are you arguing that Obama has reduced discretionary spending entirely on his own initiative?"

Nobody's arguing. Do a little reading. It is a fact!!!

Anonymous said...

ARM and madisonfella both seem to see this as a Democrat vs Republican argument

RecChief and Fen both seem to see this as an opportunity to tell lies about other people.

Both have a habit of making up bullshit that has no basis in reality and then running away when asked to provide some sort of proof for their wild ass accusations. Can't help but wonder what kind of sad life they must be living in order to constantly behave as such.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Babaluigi said...
Yes, ARM, the mistakes made were greatly the fault of the CDC for not having educated and therefore helped prepare American healthcare institutions about the Ebola threat.


Your conviction that the highly educated medical professionals in Texas are hopelessly adrift without the help of Feds appears to be a strong argument for a government take-over of medicine.

Clearly there was a management breakdown in Texas, they have admitted as much.

No doubt the CDC has made mistakes as well but they are certainly not as immediate or obviously egregious as sending a recent arrival from Liberia with a fever home from casualty with only an aspirin.

furious_a said...

...they are certainly not as immediate or obviously egregious as telling that second nurse it was ok to fly to Cleveland.

There, ARM, fixed it for you.

furious_a said...

CDC = Center for Disease Control. Is this disease controlled, do you think? Yes or no?

No, and, judging from Rosie O'Donnell, neither is lesbian obesity.

furious_a said...

Having stepped on his dick regarding who cut whose budget, ARM is back to blaming Texas.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

hombre said...
arm: "If the house Republicans are not responsible then are you arguing that Obama has reduced discretionary spending entirely on his own initiative?"

Nobody's arguing. Do a little reading. It is a fact!!!


Your claim is so incredible that I need to restate it - the decline in discretionary budget spending is entirely the work of Obama. The Reoublicans actually wanted higher levels of discretionary spending and opposed austerity measures in the budget.

This is your story? Am I correct?

furious_a said...

The Reoublicans actually wanted higher levels of discretionary spending and opposed austerity measures in the budget.

See ARM move the goalposts. Dropping "NIH" and "CDC" must have made them lighter.

chickelit said...

So talking about disease vectors is racist?

Just like talking about HIV disease vectors is homophobic.

Got it.

The Crack Emcee said...

William O’Reilly Debated Jon Stewart On One Topic - White Privilege

Guess who won?

Babaluigi said...

The obvious fact is that nowhere in this country are " the highly educated medical professionals " prepared for an Ebola threat. The performance of the CDC in this and many other instances, makes a strong argument against a government take-over of medicine (see also: Obamacare and VA Hospitals). The CDC calls itself "...nation’s health protection agency..."

I do not want our healthcare system taken over by the government any more than it is, and would like for the obvious offenders to be removed or reformed. I have no problem, however, with a clearing house, nor with coordination. Clearly, our medical institutions rely upon the CDC to at least be the sentinel on the watch for threats...and agency's own declarations make it clear they are much more than that:

(from:The CDC Mission, Role and Pledge)

"Mission

CDC works 24/7 to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S. Whether diseases start at home or abroad, are chronic or acute, curable or preventable, human error or deliberate attack, CDC fights disease and supports communities and citizens to do the same.

CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise.

CDC's Role

-Detecting and responding to new and emerging health threats
-Tackling the biggest health problems causing death and disability for Americans
-Putting science and advanced technology into action to prevent disease
-Promoting healthy and safe behaviors, communities and environment
-Developing leaders and training the public health workforce, including disease detectives
-Taking the health pulse of our nation"

...you were saying?

damikesc said...

William O’Reilly Debated Jon Stewart On One Topic - White Privilege

Guess who won?


On a show where Stewart is well-known for cutting interviews to make those he disagrees with look bad?

STUNNING!!!

Michael K said...

"Your conviction that the highly educated medical professionals in Texas are hopelessly adrift without the help of Feds appears to be a strong argument for a government take-over of medicine. "

Yes, we have so many examples of the success of government health care.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

RecChief said...

Ah, the argumentum ad hominem.

Deep thinker you are, madisonfella.

Michael said...

Crack:

White privilege is so obvious I am not sure why there would be any debate about it. The "issue" is that talking about it doesn't do anything about it. White people are not going to change their color and they sure as hell aren't going to hand over their privilege. So, what to do? It would seem that the smart thing to do is what one of my rich black friends decided to do when he was in high school: imitate in every way he could successful white people. It worked for him in a big way. My white privilege cannot buy as many Rolls Royces as my once underprivileged black friend.

Alex said...

Michael - you don't get it and never will.

Hilarious.

/Crack impression

Shanna said...

Btw, if anyone is interested the nova special on this outbreak is free on the roku pbs app.

pst314 said...

"In 1933 Wilhelm Reich argued that 'the irrational fear of syphilis was one of the major sources of National Socialism’s political views and its anti-Semitism'."

Oh well, that was Reich: Just lost in the Orgone again.

RecChief said...

if Ebola is no big deal, why call up the National Guard? Seems like containment would be easier if you didn't let 150 individuals from affected in the US every day.

RecChief said...

if you need this handy containment device to transport those suspected of infection, why not ban flights from affected areas in Africa?

Anonymous said...

"Yes, we have so many examples of the success of government health care."

Yes, the VA has been in the spotlight lately due to the wonderful care our vets have been receiving there.

Come to think of it, though, it wasn't in the spotlight for very long. The media, aka the PR wing of the Democrat Party, were afraid that people with higher IQ's than ARM would draw the wrong conclusion. They might think big government is filled with corruption and incompetence or something.


The Crack Emcee said...

Michael,

"Crack:

White privilege is so obvious I am not sure why there would be any debate about it."

But there is - and you've just admitted you don't know why - so the rest of this is expected to be equally ignorant, but I'm sure you won't let that stop you:

"The 'issue' is that talking about it doesn't do anything about it."

Bill O'Reilly just changed his opinion by talking to Jon Stewart - that makes you 0 for 2.

"White people are not going to change their color and they sure as hell aren't going to hand over their privilege."

Nor will they ever try to buff their image beyond the unethical mess they appear to be now. Let's try to clarify:

You're saying - right or wrong - whites are going to insist on being America's top dog, just like your racist ancestors swore, correct?

Please, let it all out.

"So, what to do?"

I've been talking about bringing justice to America but why do I suspect you have another idea?

"It would seem that the smart thing to do is what one of my rich black friends decided to do when he was in high school: imitate in every way he could successful white people."

I like how your "rich black friends" became one guy, because it would be obvious - to anyone with more than one black friend - that this wouldn't work for everybody or even the majority of blacks.

O for 3.

"It worked for him in a big way."

Yeah, and Pakistan elected a woman president twice, but women are still burned alive there - do you see the problem? If not, replace Pakistan with "America," woman with "Obama," and women with "blacks" and you'll notice nothing changes.

That's white's problem.

"My white privilege cannot buy as many Rolls Royces as my once underprivileged black friend. "

A black guy who just got jumped by four guys, got his knee destroyed, and then got hit by a car isn't going to be helped by acting white - but getting the money back he's owed would've given him the wealth to endure such a tragedy and/or lift him up from where he is. And - and this is a HUGE bonus:

He won't be required to give up his black identity to do it.

BTW - act like white people? For someone so aware of white supremacy, you certainly don't know how it spreads, or how little blacks want anything to do with it.

We want to END white supremacy, Michael - not join it,...

Anonymous said...

Do I really need to explain the role of The Vagina as Fascist State in this? Really? Y'all haven't been paying attention,...

Anonymous said...

ARM and madisonfella both seem to see this as a Democrat vs Republican argument

Ah, the argumentum ad hominem.

Deep thinker you are, RecChief

chickelit said...

Do I really need to explain the role of The Vagina as Fascist State in this? Really? Y'all haven't been paying attention,...

Twatzis?

Unknown said...

that o'reily video is amazing!

Achilles said...

AReasonableMan said...
"hombre said...
arm: "If the house Republicans are not responsible then are you arguing that Obama has reduced discretionary spending entirely on his own initiative?"

Nobody's arguing. Do a little reading. It is a fact!!!

Your claim is so incredible that I need to restate it - the decline in discretionary budget spending is entirely the work of Obama. The Reoublicans actually wanted higher levels of discretionary spending and opposed austerity measures in the budget.

This is your story? Am I correct?"

1. He was talking about the NIH. You are changing his words.

2. It is posted several times on this thread that Obama asked for less funding for the NIH than conguess did. That is beyond dispute.

3. Austerity now equals 3% growth in spending instead of 5% growth.

4. You have added nothing factual to this conversation. Everything you do say is partisan. Everything is twisted to support the Obama administation. When facts are against you you move the goal posts or try to change people's words.

Kirk Parker said...


Crack, you fool:

1. Who said anything about "leaders"? I didn't nominate those particular 5 to be "leaders" of anything, I identified them as writers who weren't self-obsessed.

2. Those were just a few off the top of my head. This may astonish you, but I literally never watch TV (we have neither cable nor antenna) and I can rarely bring myself to watch even the occasional news clip on YouTube. So it's not at all uncommon for me to start seeing a writer's name often enough that I start to recognize it, and unless the particular venue posts author photos next the their articles I might have no way to know what "race" they might be, and I most certainly don't care.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Achilles said...
1. He was talking about the NIH. You are changing his words.

2. It is posted several times on this thread that Obama asked for less funding for the NIH than conguess did. That is beyond dispute.

3. Austerity now equals 3% growth in spending instead of 5% growth.


Non-defence discretionary spending is falling as a percentage of GDP, because of the austerity demands of house Republicans. Funding for NIH and CDC come out of this falling pool of funds. Obviously, if spending on non-defence discretionary items are falling then the NIH and CDC budgets will be constrained or falling.

The increases you refer to are driven by increases in mandatory spending, which Republican politicians lack the courage to address.

damikesc said...

Non-defence discretionary spending is falling as a percentage of GDP, because of the austerity demands of house Republicans. Funding for NIH and CDC come out of this falling pool of funds. Obviously, if spending on non-defence discretionary items are falling then the NIH and CDC budgets will be constrained or falling.

The increases you refer to are driven by increases in mandatory spending, which Republican politicians lack the courage to address.


yet they have the funds to do studies that have little to do with their core obligations.

Clearly, they are not hurting for money. At all.

Only a Progressive can look at an outfit that wastes TRILLIONS of dollars a year and argue that the problem is that they didn't have enough to waste.

tim in vermont said...

A couple things,

If you are going to argue with ARM, you may as well go to the source and argue with Kos, same with garage.

If you engage with Crack long enough, he will finally explain to you that, regardless of your intentions, his words, if you are white and don't buy his complete worldview and agenda, and swallow it whole, you are racist.

I can't change being born white, and I can't change knowing enough about economics and history to know that reparations are a path to disaster.

WWII was largely caused by "reparations" imposed on Germany.

tim in vermont said...

garage's line about drowning govt in a bathtub comes right from a Kos tweet.

Michael said...

Crack

Can't end white supremacy with yap yap yap. Can only join in the successes it can bring by imitation.


If you think it goes away by being acknowledged you do not get it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Good take on the Ebola scam from FOX .

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

damikesc said...
Only a Progressive can look at an outfit that wastes TRILLIONS of dollars a year and argue that the problem is that they didn't have enough to waste.


Other than the Iraq war, the only place were it could be reasonably said that trillions are being wasted is in non-discretionary spending. Yet Republican politicians won't touch this money. Why is that?



Ann Althouse said...

"Guess who won?"

Yeah, I watched that yesterday. Thanks for reminding me about that. I thought Stewart acted like a jackass bully and O'Reilly kept his cool. Stewart had his whole audience braying their pleasure at the bullying of O'Reilly. To this home-viewer, O'Reilly won. He won by keeping his dignity, acknowledging all the factual and fair points about race in history, but rejecting the ideological term "white privilege."

tim in vermont said...

I am pretty sure it is a little joke by Crack to constantly refer to "White Supremacy" when he means "White Supremacism"

Makes him the only White Supremacist on here.

tim in vermont said...

Stimulus + ACA = trillions ARM.

Michael said...

Tim in vermont:

Now you went and spoiled the fun! I have so enjoyed Crack's misuse.

On the other hand it is unlikely he will correct it. So double the pleasure.

tim in vermont said...

It has been funny, but I was getting embarrassed for him. Maybe he is going for a Larry David style of humor.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

tim in vermont said...
Stimulus + ACA = trillions


Cliched response.

European economies didn't get a stimulus after the Great Bush Recession thanks to Germany. How did that work out for them?

The rate of increase in health care costs has declined since implementation of the ACA. Since government pays much of that cost the CBO estimates that "ACA’s overall effect
would be to reduce federal deficits."

But that still leaves the trillions wasted on the Iraq war. A war that you supported.

tim in vermont said...

Most cliches got to be cliches because they are true ARM.

And the constraints on how the CBO is required to calculate impacts of legislation makes their estimates a joke.

tim in vermont said...

Yes I supported the Iraq war, I found the plight of Iraqis under Saddam heartbreaking.

Now I have grown up and I am like you. Let ISIS use poison gas they looted from Iraq's stockpiles on the Kurds.

Let them behead civilians and execute prisoners.

Look the other way, no matter what they do.

They are just building a nation, the way the US built a nation in North America.

It is none of our business.

Rusty said...

The rate of increase in health care costs has declined since implementation of the ACA. Since government pays much of that cost the CBO estimates that "ACA’s overall effect
would be to reduce federal deficits."

Notes: These numbers exclude effects on the deficit of provisions of the Affordable Care Act that are not related to insurance coverage.
They also exclude federal administrative costs subject to appropriation. (CBO has previously estimated that the Internal Revenue
Service would need to spend between $5 billion and $10 billion over the 2010–2019 period to implement the Affordable Care Act and
that the Department of Health and Human Services and other federal agencies would also need to spend $5 billion to $10 billion over
that period.) In addition, the Affordable Care Act included explicit authorizations for spending on a variety of grant and other
programs; that funding is also subject to future appropriation action.
Unless otherwise noted, positive numbers indicate an increase in the deficit, and negative numbers indicate a decrease in the deficit.
CHIP = Children’s Health Insurance Program; * = between zero and -$500 million.

From the same website.
Does not look good down the road.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

tim in vermont said...
Most cliches got to be cliches because they are true


Or they just get repeated endlessly on right wing media outlets, irrespective of their truth value.

tim in vermont said...

Or on DailyKos.

I notice that you have no actual response.

tim in vermont said...

It was smart politics on Obama's part to postpone any knowledge of the effect of the ACA on people with employer plans until after the election.

I am sure he did that because he didn't want to take unfair advantage of the coming good news.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Yes Obamacare is always going to be bad, just wait till next year. Incorrect winger predictions about Obamacare.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

You lost this one. Obamacare is a success and here to stay.

richard mcenroe said...

Kirk Parker said...

Fernandinande, "Is Thomas Sowell the only black writer who isn't a bilge-spewing self-obsessed moron?"

No. Walter Williams, Allen West, Condi Rice (not a full-time writer but I do see the occasional op-ed from her), Stephen Carter, Shelby Steele... the list is actually fairly long.

But they're not AUTHENTIC. Just ask any white progressive. They're in charge of determining this stuff, you know.

tim in vermont said...

Like I said, I am sure Obama is withholding the good news about Obamacare until after the election because he doesn't want to take unfair advantage of Republicans in the Senate battle.

Todd said...


AReasonableMan said...
Obamacare is a success and here to stay.
10/17/14, 11:01 AM


That first part is extremely subjective and the second part is more hope/opinion than fact.

Me paying full boat on my COBRA flipped insurance (while I could) was still a far better deal than any ACA plan I could find, based on costs/benefits. I went from a reasonable deductible ($500 per person), reasonable co-pays and reasonable max out of pocket (2500/5000) to an ACA plan (the best benefits matching ACA plan I could find for the same monthly) had a 10K deductible before the first benefits kicked in. That would be 22K spent before I could start using the co-pays. An extra 10K per year and no dental or vision. Sorry but how is ACA better?

alan markus said...

A Retarded Man said...
Obamacare is a success and here to stay.
10/17/14, 11:01 AM


Mission Accomplished! Heckuva job, Brownie!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

alan markus said...
Mission Accomplished! Heckuva job, Brownie!


It is revealing that Bush has become the absolute standard by which failure is now measured.

Rusty said...

Obamacare is a success and here to stay.

A gratuitous assertion that can be equally gratuitously denied.

No it's not.

tim in vermont said...

Actually, what Katrina taught us was the effectiveness of certain tactics.

Plus, as Alinsky pointed out, it is fun!

And we don't even have to lie like you guys!

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