Althouse: After the push to restrict access to sugared drinks...

September 19, 2014

After the push to restrict access to sugared drinks...

... suspicions turn to artificially sweetened drinks.

60 comments:

stevefromva said...: I hear a diet of bread and water is just fine, so long as the bread is whole wheat and the water is from a spring.; 9/19/14, 6:38 AM
Jake said...: You need to stay away from wheat too (whole or otherwise).

Just stick to water.; 9/19/14, 6:40 AM
Bob Ellison said...: Oh, my.

Stay away from water, too. And stop breathing. Everything is toxic at some point.; 9/19/14, 6:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes, when you breathe you exhale carbon dioxide and cause global warming.; 9/19/14, 7:01 AM
PB said...: I've never liked the taste of artificial sweeteners and thus have never had much diet stuff. I love the soda imported from Mexico. Nothing like the taste of pure sugar! Much better than corn syrup.; 9/19/14, 7:04 AM
PB said...: These nannies are missing the "self-awareness" gene.; 9/19/14, 7:04 AM
Mark said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/19/14, 7:13 AM
Mark said...: I drink only distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol.; 9/19/14, 7:15 AM
Barry Dauphin said...: No matter what percolates in the mind of Mike Bloomberg, social policy is always a blunt instrument to say the least. Be careful what Mike wishes for.; 9/19/14, 7:16 AM
Jane the Actuary said...: You know, more and more, I start to think that Amanda Marcotte had a point when she talked about the "tyranny" of homecooked meals, even if she didn't say this herself: not that the idea of cooking is so tyrannical, but the nannies have raised the bar so high on what constitutes healthful eating, what we may and may not feed our children (no processed food, always fresh, organic, not just veggies but the right colors of veggies) that it has become tyrannical to someone who takes these admonitions seriously.

And she complains that the kids complain -- well, who wouldn't if following all the nannies' rules?; 9/19/14, 7:18 AM
Curious George said...: Nothing like the taste of pure sugar! Much better than corn syrup.

They're both "pure Sugar"...one comes from corn, the other sugar cane. I think it's funny that people thing only sugar from sugar cane is "natural" or "pure" and corn sugar is not.; 9/19/14, 7:19 AM
PB said...: Curious George: Sorry for not clearly distinguishing my preference for sucrose over fructose, the other sugars that metabolize into glucose, and the artificial sweeteners.; 9/19/14, 7:27 AM
MadisonMan said...: Eat and drink what you like. That's what I do.; 9/19/14, 7:28 AM
Curious George said...: A friend of mine lost 30 pounds by just eliminating Diet Coke. This was at the advice of his doctor.; 9/19/14, 8:16 AM
Peter said...: These findings are preliminary, but I don't know why everyone's so surprised: perhaps in nutrition as well as economics, there's no such thing as a free lunch?

And there is, BTW, at least some evidence that aspartame (Nutrasweet) is bad news for one's kidneys:

http://cjasn.asnjournals.org/content/6/1/160.full; 9/19/14, 8:21 AM
Bob Ellison said...: Sugar bad! High-fructose corn syrup bad!

However, raw cane sugar good! Because it's brown.

Artificial sweeteners bad! Because they're chemicals, unlike sucrose and fructose.

If it tastes good, it's bad!; 9/19/14, 8:25 AM
kcom said...: Congratulations on a grown up headline, Anne. "Sugared drinks" sounds like an adult is talking.

Althouse June 26, 2014; 9/19/14, 8:38 AM
Salamandyr said...: It never ends, does it?; 9/19/14, 8:41 AM
William said...: Nutritionists are a primitive, superstitious lot with many weird fetishes ans taboos. They keep looking to find something positive to say about garlic and something negative to say about mono sodium glutamate. They haven't found anything yet, but they're persistent. I think they've given up on coffee, but this shows promise. Perhaps articial sweeteners can fill the void in their diet since they had to give up banning fats.; 9/19/14, 8:50 AM
Salamandyr said...: To be fair, this is the first article on this subject that looks like it the scientists actually did something approaching an objective scientific experiment. I'm a bit suspicious, though. Previous experiments have not shown artificial sweeteners trigger insulin release, and I lost over 50 pounds while drinking truly horrendous amounts of artificially sweetened drinks.

So I will wait for further experiments before I swear off sweeteners.; 9/19/14, 8:54 AM
MadisonMan said...: A friend of mine lost 30 pounds by just eliminating Diet Coke

I am suspicious of this claim.

One loses weight by changing the number of calories you consume, or by increasing exercise, or both.; 9/19/14, 9:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Indeed, wheat has gluten, and only evil people would want to drink Gaia's tears.

Better to waste away so that the whole may live.

In the meantime, let's start an anti Sweet N Low activism campaign. We'll start with some leaflets, get a mention on NPR by Christmas, and be in a photo op with a new bill signed by this time next year.; 9/19/14, 9:06 AM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I watched House the doctor show last night. Repeat.

At one point, House speculates that lung cancer patients die in higher rates than other cancers because of guilt.

They feel (if they smoked) they deserved what they got.

Hence the pushers saw that episode when it originally aired, decided to make everyone as guilt-minded as possible, and therefore bend the health-care cost curve organically.; 9/19/14, 9:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Things white people worry about.

It is turtles all the way down...; 9/19/14, 9:07 AM
Ambrose said...: It's all just a dress rehearsal for a second run at banning alcohol.; 9/19/14, 9:51 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Diet Pepsi, mother's milk.; 9/19/14, 10:07 AM
FullMoon said...: One loses weight by changing the number of calories you consume, or by increasing exercise, or both.

A common fallacy; 9/19/14, 10:33 AM
Lucien said...: One can hardly wait to see how well these results can be replicated in other studies.; 9/19/14, 11:27 AM
Paco Wové said...: "A common fallacy"

We eagerly await your development of this theme.; 9/19/14, 11:29 AM
Brian said...: "A friend of mine lost 30 pounds by just eliminating Diet Coke."

Well. That is One Weird Trick, innit?; 9/19/14, 11:40 AM
Joe said...: Anyone else notice how many qualifiers are in that article? Which suggests that the actual scientists gave even more qualifiers. This is an interesting hypothesis and that's about it.

* * *

Funny thing about the "sugar" vs. "corn syrup" silliness is that "sugar" has a fairly high amount of fructose and the difference in fructose between them is actually very small. I'll wager that in a true, blind, taste test the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I further suspect that the biggest difference in south-of-the-border sodas is that they are simply less sweet.; 9/19/14, 11:44 AM
tim maguire said...: Activism is a mindset, not an issue. The current complaint is merely the current complaint. When it is dealt with, there will be another complaint. No activist will ever simply declare victory and go home.; 9/19/14, 11:56 AM
FullMoon said...: Paco Wové said...

"A common fallacy"

We eagerly await your development of this theme.

Low cal/exercise is boomer/greatest generation thinking.
Kind of like bloodletting as a cure used to be widely accepted.; 9/19/14, 11:59 AM
FullMoon said...: Blogger PB Reader said...

I've never liked the taste of artificial sweeteners and thus have never had much diet stuff. I love the soda imported from Mexico. Nothing like the taste of pure sugar!

Dea recently arrested a ring of Mexican sugar smugglers. Four metric tons of high grade Mexican sugar concealed in bales of marijuana. Dea estimates Street value four trillion Us dollars; 9/19/14, 12:11 PM
Paco Wové said...: "Low cal/exercise is boomer/greatest generation thinking."

Ummm, ok. Kind of like "gravitation" is "enlightenment-generation thinking", or "germ theory of disease" is "19th century thinking"?

Forgive the snark, but for many of us, e.g., me, calories in vs. calories out falls into the "department of the bleedin' obvious" category*. Your blithe dismissal of it would seem to need a little more backup.

---
*For example, I find from personal experience that if I eat less, I lose weight. People whom I know – if they eat less, they lose weight. It's almost like there's a general principle at work here! You're telling me this only works with baby boomers?; 9/19/14, 12:17 PM
Fritz said...: A lot of drought these days too. You'll get nothing and like it!; 9/19/14, 12:46 PM
FullMoon said...: Blogger Paco Wové said...

"Low cal/exercise is boomer/greatest generation thinking."

Ummm, ok. Kind of like "gravitation" is "enlightenment-generation thinking", or "germ theory of disease" is "19th century thinking"?
No. Those are examples of new actual facts replacing "bloodletting" type science.

Forgive the snark, but for many of us, e.g., me, calories in vs. calories out falls into the "department of the bleedin' obvious" category*. Your blithe dismissal of it would seem to need a little more backup.
Low cal works psychosomatically because many Americans have been programmed since the late 1960's to believe it works. Because of the anguish caused by eating less than a body requires, one is emotionally involved expecting a reward for this self deprivation. This alters the brain chemistry to produce endorphins, whice increase metabolism, resulting in fat burning. The other side of that particular coin is that the brain may believe the body is entering a famine state, which could result in fat storage, like a bear in hibernation.

---
*For example, I find from personal experience that if I eat less, I lose weight. People whom I know – if they eat less, they lose weight. It's almost like there's a general principle at work here! You're telling me this only works with baby boomers?
No, I am simply saying that is the old way of thinking, not that it is not occasionally successful.Sick people generally recovered after bloodletting. Was bloodletting the cure?

As for you personal anecdotal example. I expect you ate quite a bit more as a teen-ager, yet weighed less. How does that relate to you current eat less, weigh more status today?; 9/19/14, 1:17 PM
Brian said...: FullMoon will have none of your old-fashioned First Law of Thermodynamics, thankyouverymuch.; 9/19/14, 1:36 PM
FullMoon said...: Brian said...

FullMoon will have none of your old-fashioned First Law of Thermodynamics, thankyouverymuch.

I am fairly certain nobody uses a Thermos anymore due to the advent of Styrofoam insulated coffee cups and the tendency if the glass insert in a Thermos to break when dropped. Just sayin'; 9/19/14, 1:51 PM
Brian said...: You bite your tongue, sir! I have a Thermos on my desk as we speak. Use it every day because the secretary's coffee sucks.

There's no glass insert now, though, at least not in mine. It's a double-walled steel tube with the space between the walls evacuated. Holds coffee at a drinkably hot temp for no less than 12 hours.; 9/19/14, 1:58 PM
FullMoon said...: Brian said...

You bite your tongue, sir! I have a Thermos on my desk as we speak. Use it every day because the secretary's coffee sucks.

There's no glass insert now, though, at least not in mine. It's a double-walled steel tube with the space between the walls evacuated. Holds coffee at a drinkably hot temp for no less than 12 hours.

Without a glass insert, it can harly qualify as ThermoDYNAMIC, which is the OLD Style, Ipso facto much like calories in/calories out/ bloodletting is the Old style of thinking.

It is drinkable because you BELieve it to be so.

As Althouse once said
See, whatever happens can be said to have happened for the reason you've already reasoned is the reason for whatever happens to have happened.; 9/19/14, 2:33 PM
Gahrie said...: They're both "pure Sugar"...one comes from corn, the other sugar cane. I think it's funny that people thing only sugar from sugar cane is "natural" or "pure" and corn sugar is not.

Fructose and sucrose are both sugars, but imo they taste differently, and have a different "mouth feel".; 9/19/14, 2:34 PM
Think said...: I am in no mood to venture into why FullMoon is right, but I can't let the thermodynamics reference pass by. Calorie counters throw it out like it is the end of the debate. However, they overlook the simple fact that the body is not a closed system.; 9/19/14, 2:38 PM
Brian said...: "Without a glass insert, it can harly qualify as ThermoDYNAMIC"

This makes no fucking sense at all.

"I am in no mood to venture into why FullMoon is right"

So I'm obliged to provide a complete argument and you aren't. That's a neat trick.; 9/19/14, 2:46 PM
FullMoon said...: Blogger Think said...

I am in no mood to venture into why FullMoon is right, but I can't let the thermodynamics reference pass by. Calorie counters throw it out like it is the end of the debate. However, they overlook the simple fact that the body is not a closed system.
I was just going to say that.
And don't get me started on the food pyramid which may be good for sharpening razor blades but can only result in eventual death if menuealy incorporated.; 9/19/14, 2:46 PM
Think said...: "So I'm obliged to provide a complete argument and you aren't. That's a neat trick."

It's no trick, it is laziness. Do you believe saturated fat causes heart attacks too? It that law as firm as gravity?; 9/19/14, 2:56 PM
Brian said...: I love the notion that people who are using a Calories in/Calories out model are somehow eliding the fact that the body is an open system. The model has got the words "in" and "out" right in its name.; 9/19/14, 2:59 PM
Brian said...: Where biology is concerned there is stuff I know and stuff I don't know, but not anything that I "believe".; 9/19/14, 3:03 PM
FullMoon said...: Brian said...

"Without a glass insert, it can harly qualify as ThermoDYNAMIC"

This makes no fucking sense at all.

You just proved my point! Because YOU believe it makes no sense, you subconsciously imprinted that into your subconscious. Ipso facto, You BELEIVE it to be true!

"I am in no mood to venture into why FullMoon is right"

So I'm obliged to provide a complete argument and you aren't. That's a neat trick.

9/19/14, 2:46 PM; 9/19/14, 3:05 PM
FullMoon said...: Blogger Brian said...

Where biology is concerned there is stuff I know and stuff I don't know, but not anything that I "believe".
EXACTLY! Doctors at one time Knew bloodletting was a cure all, but theat did not always work, ala George Washington.; 9/19/14, 3:08 PM
Think said...: Fair enough Brian. What I should have said is that your ignore the simple fact that there isn't only one out (i.e. burning calories through energy use such as exercise). It isn't a simple math problem like you claim. There are thousands of other variables, including whether your body converts the excess energy into fat, which isn't always a given. In other words, excess calories do not always mean excess fat. There are many other things that can be done with the excess calories (even just shitting them out) besides turning them to fat. That does not contradict the law of thermodynamics. But the calories in/calories out mantra doesn't acknowledge that. It is such a simplistic way to view the body.; 9/19/14, 3:13 PM
Think said...: Brian, do you KNOW saturated fats cause heart attacks?; 9/19/14, 3:16 PM
FullMoon said...: Brian and Think.

FYI Using words like "fucking" and "shitting" in your arguments does little to advance your cause.

In fact there are those who say those words convey an attempt to present a so called folksy persona.; 9/19/14, 3:22 PM
Think said...: Would you prefer pooping? That may not be as folksy, but it sounds childish to my folksy ears.; 9/19/14, 3:24 PM
Brian said...: Think,

No, I do not know that saturated fats cause heart disease; and this theory appears to be incorrect. I do not see what this has to do with the current conversation, though.

I am of course aware that the First Law has got its limitations from a practical point of view; too much energy conversion and exchange with the surroundings to keep track of it all. I get it, I really do.

All I'm really doing in that comment that set you off is making a wisecrack. The fact is there are a lot of people who really *do* believe --- and that is the right word --- all kinds of elaborate theories about nutrition, weight loss, and fitness. Many of these theories set off my Voodoo Detector, which incites in me a nearly irresistible urge to poke fun at their proponents.

FullMoon,

You're approaching performance art here --- lecturing me about my use of common (if admittedly vulgar) intensifiers while gleefully sprinkling your own comments with ALL CAPS.; 9/19/14, 3:32 PM
FullMoon said...: Brain said
FullMoon,

You're approaching performance art here --- lecturing me about my use of common (if admittedly vulgar) intensifiers while gleefully sprinkling your own comments with ALL CAPS.
Oh yeah?,
Well, if thine eyeball offends thee, pluck it out! HA!

I look up to you guys who know stuff I don't and when you use bad words you bring youselfs down to my level.; 9/19/14, 3:43 PM
Think said...: Brian. Ok, we agree on more than I realized. I think the saturated fat thing closely correlates to one of the reasons calories in vs. calories out is too simple. Eating fat is high in calories, but can lead to great weight loss because of its effect on hunger and hormones. Usually the calorie counting group is the same group telling me low-fat diets are healthy and good for weight loss.
Sorry for being set-off. Too much sugar at lunch made me tired and grumpy.

P.S., this is a great podcast on the fat issue: http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/big-fat-surprise; 9/19/14, 3:47 PM
Anonymous said...: Like arguing over the merits of regular cigarettes versus menthols, when both will do just fine. White people.

It is turtles all the way down.; 9/19/14, 9:33 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Anybody who thinks that corn sweetener is indistinguishable from cane sugar should eat a Rolo, and then should eat an English Rolo.

And they should apologize, then shut up, because they will understand how terribly terribly wrong they were.; 9/20/14, 1:39 PM
Joe said...: Anybody who thinks that corn sweetener is indistinguishable from cane sugar should eat a Rolo, and then should eat an English Rolo.

You do understand that the recipes are different, right?; 9/20/14, 5:09 PM