"It's killing some white folks, too."
At a Carnegie Hall concert recently, Neil Young stopped in the middle of a song because some people in the audience were clapping off-beat. Mike Love of The Beach Boys says that sometimes, it's a cultural thing.ADDED: Remember how the crowd clapping screwed up the beat in "Give Peace a Chance"?
"For instance, the preponderance of American pop music is based on the beat of two and four," he says. "You'll have a lot of cultural influences that cause people to do one and three. I remember being in the Vienna Stadthalle — the town hall in Vienna, with about 12,000 people in it — and it was, like, Teutonic."
And there was like Tommy Smothers and Tim Leary and Dick [Gregory], and all people sort of clapping along and singing on the chorus. And if you hear the record, it's funny actually, because my rhythm sense has always been a bit wild, and halfway through it, I got on the on-beat instead of the back-beat and it was hard because all the...there were non-musicians playing along with us. And so I had to put a lot of tape echo to double up the beat to keep a steady beat right through the whole record, so it goes Bo-boom, bo-boom, instead of Ba, Ba.
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45 comments:
It's not killing us - driving us crazy, maybe - but not killing us.
White stubbornness, regarding acknowledging their racism, is killing us,...
Years ago I was at a Young & Stills concert, they were doing some acoustic & just quit because the crowd wasn't giving them the attention they deserved. There may be a cultural thing in the clapping, but it might be a Neil Young thing instead.
Just trying to help:
You clap on the snare drum, white folks - not the kick,...
"All the white people clap your hands on the four now"
-- Prince, "DMSR"
Kind of the same way I feel about ebonics.
James Brown's revolution was to emphasize the first beat and not the second, so it was ONE, two, three, four, TWO, two, three, four...
Clap to this baby if you can.
A strong beat but erratic time signature.
It mostly alternates 4/4 and 5/4 with an occasional 3/4 and 2/4.
Having grown up in a household of metronomes both literal and figurative, the beat deaf (of all flavors) used to drive me crazy, too. But over the years, I learned to turn a blind eye. ; )
The worst I've ever heard was a Punch Brothers concert. It was basically an all-white bluegrass audience. In bluegrass, the mandolin provides the backbeat, and is generally easier to hear than the bass (which holds down the one and three.) So audiences can usually clap along without getting lost. But Chris Thiele is very creative on mando, and the Punch Brothers are very creating with their use of time. People get lots after two measures and it just sounds like applause...and they DONT STOP??
White people. There is no limit to what they can not do.
I don't clap-to-the-beat at concerts either, but about 99.8% of all popular music is four-beats-to-the-bar, and seldom is the rhythm less than very obvious.
If you don't think you can keep time to that then, yes, please don't try.
Not the folks. Just the professionals.
Music does not set the tempo. People set the tempo. Music should be sympathetic with the individual.
You know what be killin me? Black Folks talkin durin the damn movie!
Shut The Hell Up, Black Folks!
I did not come in her, pay good money to listen to yo nonsense!
Back in the 80s, chiding the audience for failing to follow their instructions on the call-and-response was a regular part of the live shows given by Toots & the Maytals.
I got hold of a couple of live boots and confirmed my sneaking suspicion that it wasn't the audience that was screwing up.
One of my friends, back in the day, made it to the dressing room and came back with Mr. Hibbert's autograph. Turned out he couldn't sign his own name.
But I think it was Ted Williams who said you don't have to wear a necktie if you can hit.
Time tough, indeed.
Don't ever play "reverse the races" with NPR you guys. Chilling.
[I heard this story this morning and wondered if it would make an appearance here!]
White rhythm is racist, I am sure.
I was at a Charlie and the Nightcats show once in a small venue. The audience was clapping along, and one lady was obviously "off." Rich Estrin, the singer and blues harp player, ran over to her and showed her (by clapping) where the beat was. Hilarious.
My favorite kind of rock doesn't limit itself to 4/4 time, or any consistent meter for that matter.
One of the founding bands of progressive rock, Yes, was just denied admission to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year. One of the excuses for this travesty is that prog's abandonment of the 1-2-3-4 dogma is racist, or something. Maybe Crack could explain.
White stubbornness, regarding acknowledging their racism, is killing us,...
I've certainly been doing my part. What's taking so long?
Those Wild Austrians, hung over on New Years day.
Johann Strauss Sr. "Radetzky March"
The Crack Emcee said...
"White stubbornness, regarding acknowledging their racism, is killing us,..."
Visiting abortion clinics is killing you. Father's denying their God given responsibility to be real men of the home is killing you. Self-selective suicide by progressive brainwashing. The fruit of Sanger's Negro Project.
It depends on the genre. Clapping to country music is definitely 1/3, while clapping to rock/blues is definitely 2/4.
"Black gospel" is more like the blues, and "white gospel" is more like country western ... so you typically get 1/3 in white churches, and 2/4 in black churches.
Funny how this is being used as some kind of racial thing. It's got nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with genre.
The Crack Emcee said...
"White stubbornness, regarding acknowledging their racism, is killing us,..."
I just watched a documentary clip of urban blacks loading their automatic weapons with 17 round clips of "white stubbornness".
Chilling.
Dancers clap on the 1 and 3 because that's when we step; passive music listeners clap on the 2 and 4, to echo what they've heard on 1 and 3.
It's well known that dancers can drive musicians crazy by clapping in sync with the music, but that's because there are more passive listeners than dancers. Arguably, the dancers are being more musical.
One solution is to provide a small dance floor so that the dancers can dance; while they're dancing, they won't clap, and everyone will be happier.
Crack:
Again, if the Democrats ended up holding every single elective office in the country there are not going to be reparations. Your vote is paid for. Period and full stop. The Democrats are not supreme because they are in the habit of paying twice, especially for a vote that they get for free.
So rave on, dude. White stubbornness. White Supremacy. White Racism. 400 years of abuse, rape, murder, theft, separatism, the lot, is not going to end in reparations.
Think of the LGBT community. The Latino community. All the communities with their beaks wide open waiting…waiting… I think it is their turn.
On the other hand, if blacks agreed to 100% stop talking in movies and answering their cell phones in movies there might be a chance….
Audience clapping at concerts is just annoying. So are the bands who demand audience participation: Let us hear you sing! Please stop doing this - it killing me.
PS - @ Mark Nielsen: I find your favorite kind of rock simply smashing.
Wait, so white people are different than black people?
The Crack Emcee said...
You clap on the snare drum, white folks - not the kick,...
Thanks for the suggestion, but in my case it's not enough. I still end up off by about 1/3 of a beat.
I've learned not to clap.
Everybody Clap yo hands
HOLLA!
I just want to clap for Cody.
That was very nice.
Even if the audience Gets It an claps right on the backbeat, there is still going to be a time lag and it'll shortly turn to shit.
It used to be, long ago, when French concert audiences thought that a new classical composition was something trivial, they'd whistle along with the melody.
The Crack Emcee,
To creating almost all materials; metal alloys, plastics, etc. - to creating almost all the mechanical inventions and eletronic equipment that makes up our world, I think white people not being able to clap on beat is a small complaint, no? I guess willing to say that makes me a racist?
BTW, I didn't create any of the above but the same can be said for most blacks not having a hand in creating "black music." I don't know how many blacks it took to make the average Smokey Robinson song, so I could be wrong. I think some blacks' "stubbornness" comes from feeling pretty inferior because of the above facts and want to believe in racism holding them back. Black Cubans don't have this problem when they come to this country, btw. It's a legacy not of slavery or racism but of democrat's desire to make people dependent and blacks have been the biggest victims of this.
So Crack,
How many blacks have been murdered by other blacks?
How many blacks have been murdered by whites?
I have in mind over the past 200 or so years but you can pick any period you like.
I think you are still going to find more blacks murdered by blacks than by whites.
Not to mention that it was blacks who sold your ancestors into slavery in Africa in the first place.
John Henry
The Crack Emcee: "You clap on the snare drum, white folks - not the kick,.."
The guy praising the "success" of rappers who are not musically trained or even understanding of basic musical structure (much less bound by it) wants you to know that there are however "rules" for how to clap.
Yep.
The word you are looking for is "consistency".
LOL
As with every annoyance of modern life, Martin Mull has a funny song that highlights the problem of bad clapping. The most relevant verse:
Can't you see it's an artist up here playing?
Can't you tell that there's more than meets the ear?
Can't you hear that it's poetry I'm saying?
Have you noticed, friends, that there's a genius here?
No,You're too intent on clapping out of rhythm
Or on getting your date nude out by the lake
Like that jerk in Row Eleven and the jerkess sitting with him.
I swear that I've played some shitholes, yeah, but this takes the cake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b36pQsL_Ags
Also great is Loudon Wainwright exhorting his Philadelphia audience to "put your hands together now."
"Wait a minute here! Stop! I didn't ask you to clap. I asked you to put. Your. Hands. Together. Don't you cheesesteak-eating hoagieheads understand English?"
Little known fact:
From childhood I have been really good at getting the beat of all sorts of musical genre.
Raised to it.
zefal,
"To creating almost all materials; metal alloys, plastics, etc. - to creating almost all the mechanical inventions and eletronic equipment that makes up our world, I think white people not being able to clap on beat is a small complaint, no? I guess willing to say that makes me a racist?"
Wow - a lot to unpack there. First, "creating almost all materials"? And the creations of black Americans - what are they? Do you know? Do whites tell you? WOULD whites tell you? You poor pathetic, ignorant liars.
It explains why whites are so insecure, being lied to so often - by their own people - only to find yourselves constantly being one-upped and exposed by niggers:
"Despite the many obstacles that African-American inventors have faced, there is a rich and long history of African-American inventors. One of the first black inventors who was able to obtain a U.S. patent was Thomas L. Jennings, who obtained a patent in 1821 for a dry-cleaning process.
Other early African-American inventors include Henry Blair, who received a patent for a seed planter in 1834 and a corn harvester in 1836, and Granville T. Woods who received 27 patents, beginning with his first patent in 1884 for a steam boiler furnace. He has been described as the "Black Edison."
Modern-day African-American Inventors include Patricia Bath, who has received 5 U.S. patents relating to the treatment of cataracts and her invention of a medical device, the Laserphaco Probe. Mark Dean, computer scientist and inventor, holds three of the 9 original IBM patents, and over 40 patents total. James E. West's more than 40 year career at Bell Labs resulted in him obtaining 47 US patents and more than 200 foreign patents."
Second, your racism shines through in your desire to one-up those you've historically oppressed. And to use lies to do so - that seals the deal pretty well. (You actually believe that we-created-everything nonsense? Even with the white history of lying and thievery? Incredible!) Blacks don't do that.
And we clap on beat.
We're a pretty remarkable people - generous, too - unlike some I know,...
"I think some blacks' "stubbornness" comes from feeling pretty inferior because of the above facts"
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
There are 300 lb. black women who KNOW they're beautiful, while 75 lb. white girls are found dead because they were once told they're ugly, and you think WE feel inferior?
There are homeless black guys who can get a blow job, while rich white guys are taking courses in How To Pick Up Girls, and you think WE feel inferior?
Whites wouldn't know a fact to save their existence - they know the oppression of facts and nothing more,...
Crack
You actually think that list of black inventors/inventions is impressive?
I live near a stop light and sometimes I hear people singing along with their car stereos. It's awful. They are hideously off key.
The funny thing is I was listening to some African music recently (mahlathini and the Mahotella Queens) and a lot of the songs have the drum beat on the 1 and 3. You'd think, since they're black they'd get it right.
Then I was listening to some Rush and it wasn't even in 4/4 at all. So, clapping on the 2 and 4 wouldn't work at all.
The name game, live
Um.
Pitches for itself, say I, speaking (on beat).
Years later, in college, when "hey mickey" (for example) came into vogue, it brought up memories to me, of mine, of this, from back then.
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