Japan has had menstrual leave since just after World War II. According to the 1947 Labor Standards Law, any women suffering from painful periods or whose job might exacerbate period pain are allowed seirikyuuka (literally “physiological leave”)....This gave me a (hot) flashback to high school gym class. Having your period was considered a reason not to take a shower (in the ridiculous group-shower setup that was, in fact, never required at the end of gym class (it was always potentially going to be required, but every single time, in the end, we were given a skip-the-showers reprieve)). At the beginning of gym class, we'd be lined up, and the girl at the front of the line would go to each girl and ask — and this is the question verbatim — "Are you?" This was to determine who was exempt from the shower that was never going to be demanded anyway. Such was the absurdity of life in the 1960s.
Taiwan’s current menstrual leave legislation is much newer. The 2013 amendment to the country’s Act of Gender Equality in Employment guarantees female workers three days of menstrual leave a year, in addition to the 30 days of half-paid sick leave allotted to all workers. The act originally folded menstrual leave into the regular 30 days of sick leave, prompting a gender-diverse coalition of politicians to claim this was a violation of women’s basic rights...
Anyway, "menstrual leave" is just another benefit for women, like "free" birth control, so you might as well expect politicians to propose this. I suspect that talking about it will cause too much discomfort, and that should cramp the flow of pro-woman benefits. Look, just call in sick if you must. It's absurd to have to say it's your period. Does anyone even want to do that? What message to put out there: that menstruation is disabling. How does that do anyone any good?
Meanwhile: "Women in Nepal Suffer Monthly Ostracization."
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78 comments:
"Cramp the flow"?
Althouse, really?
"... that should cramp the flow of pro-woman benefits."
Someone is getting carried away with the metaphors, to the point of uber-tackiness. It's a beautiful day in Brooklyn, sun is shining, birds singing, time to turn to brighter things than cramped up flows.
How do you do "equal work" if you disappear from the workplace for one or more days every month?
Menstrual leave should be allowed for female managers.
When asked why there is a discrepency between men and woman's salaries look to stuff like this. Women take more time off than men. Ergo, they are likely to get fewer bumps up the ladder than the guy who isn't taking the menstrual leave.
When asked why there is a discrepency between men and woman's salaries look to stuff like this. Women take more time off than men. Ergo, they are likely to get fewer bumps up the ladder than the guy who isn't taking the menstrual leave.
Can men have blue balls leave?
Everyone is all for equality, but they want their special exception as well.
Maybe we should all just agree that women aren't really up for this "working" thing. It sounded like a lot of fun, When Gloria Steinem and her Ivy League buddies were talking about it. All about actualizing yourself and having achievements and stuff. But it turns out to be about getting paid a pittance to do things you don't like doing because some idiot called your "Boss" says to. Let Bob do it.
in the ridiculous group-shower setup
We always thought the gym teacher enjoyed watching 12 year old boys shower just a little too much.
Vote Hillary in 2016. She already went through menopause.
First question, if women take a great deal of paid menstrual leave will this bias their managers against giving them a promotion? How does one penalize that bias?
Note that the prospective bias could come from women who do not (or did not) take paid menstrual leave and not just from men.
Next question. If a woman is in a combat unit that comes under attack, can she wave her hands at the enemy, tell them that it's her period, and demand that she get her paid menstrual leave?
Can a female combat pilot opt out of a difficult mission because of her paid menstrual leave?
Most people who live in a Christian or post-Christian society do not understand how historically common beliefs in "ritual uncleanliness" are. Christianity is the outlier in that it believes only in sin, which is an act of will, and not in uncleanliness, which is a state of moral infirmity.
The removal of the notion of uncleanliness seemed to have been a hard idea to sell even in the Greco-Roman Mediterranean world, considering the graphic language used by some of the Church Fathers (e.g. Tertullian) to try and get their point across that now, with the world redeemed, there is no longer a distinction of clean & unclean parts of God's Creation.
When I hear folks talk about how Christianity doesn't like the body my question is "uhhhh, compared to whom?", and I bring up this sin/uncleanliness distinction.
Thank goodness that women in the military don't menstruate!! Otherwise that might affect their ability to perform in the extremely difficult conditions they would be operating in!!
"amendment to the [Taiwan's} Act of Gender Equality in Employment guarantees female workers three days of menstrual leave a year, in addition to the 30 days of half-paid sick leave allotted to all workers. The act originally folded menstrual leave into the regular 30 days of sick leave, prompting a gender-diverse coalition of politicians to claim this was a violation of women’s basic rights..."
Thirty days of sick leave? Interesting.
Do you suppose it applies to farmers?
WWFD
"What Would Farmers Do?"
I thought "cramp the flow" was hysterical!
If sex discrimination in hiring and promotion is legalized and even encouraged I'm fine with it.
Actually, I can think of no more effective way to encourage sex discrimination in the workplace than this.
But they work harder when they work, because they're not busy thinking about sex.
"Women take more time off than men."
I thought I read that's not true. That's what some people think, and it's a basis for discrimination, so the "menstrual leave" policy could exacerbate the stereotype and hurt all women.
I once worked in a place where there was one woman who called in sick with her period every month. Were we allowed to think she was lame? I'm sure any new policy would come with sanctions against employers who hold the use of this form of leave against an employee, but that's the sort of thing that's hard to police.
At the same time, all you men ought to stop and think of the bodily burdens that are involved in being female. I could see trying to equalize life for women, but I can't believe a paid day (or days) off every month is going to help the progress of women in the workplace.
Giving women extra days off work?
Sounds like a war on men to me.....
I dunno. Could a young male call in with Lak A Nooky Fever?
Ann:
How do you plan to "equalize" life for men? Our higher rates of workplace death and lower life expectancy.
I was wondering how long it would take before you picked this up. Interestingly, the guys, in particular, here picked up the equal pay angle fairly quickly here. The comments to the original article seemed to quickly slide into women talking about their periods, and esp., it seems, how great it is to have had a hysterectomy due to endometriosis and no longer have painful periods.
Women wonder why they don't make quite as much as men, and then you see this sort of thing. And, they ignore that an employer has to cover for them when they take maternity leave (or, really, just leave early to pick up the kids), and now this?
But, I am not surprised. Our schools have already been feminized by rewarding showing up, being nice, and cooperating well, over actual knowledge. This is more of the same - they should be rewarded for showing up and being (outwardly) nice, and what they accomplish during their time at work is irrelevant. Works in the government, but not with most jobs, where performance is necessary to make a profit, to keep the employer in business.
Who can take a woman seriously when she is such a wilting flower, so fragile, so helpless?
"Sorry no meeting today with our most important client, My menstrual time off."
If the menstrual pain is really bad, take a sick day. Most women don't need time off for their monthly inconvenience. These women don't appreciate being treated as invalids. Employers will balk at hiring women to incur higher costs. Who is taking over her duties when she is off: 3 to 7 days a month? She is replaceable, she will be replaced.
In the Sixties, gym teachers (and some others) seemed to think that humiliating someone was good for them. All the kids--fat, skinny and in-between--had to line up naked for no apparent reason other than teaching them to endure the taunts of others. I still resent that experience, and I was neither fat nor skinny.
Can a female combat pilot opt out of a difficult mission because of her paid menstrual leave?
I don't think that you are really going to see a problem with combat pilots - too competitive, and the pilots are presumably too professional.
But, that reminds me of what happened during the deployment for the 1st Gulf War. A lot of pregnancies for women getting ready to deploy, esp. on ships. Oops. Forgot their birth control, and, sorry, have to stay state-side for the duration.
I'll trade cramps 2-3 days a month (about 1200 days worth in all?) if I can live 5 years longer - sounds like a fair trade-off. Men too have problems and disadvantages as males. Almost as many men die of prostrate cancer as women do of breast cancer, but many do not know this, given how much more attention is devoted to the former (which I fully support BTW - I am not complaining, just making a point).
Swim classes were in the nude--for hygiene reasons supposedly. And you had to walk over a "ball washer" first--an 8-10-foot long pipe with holes on the top that sprayed you with cold water. The girls had to shower, too, at my high school. They used to complain about it all the time.
"I could see trying to equalize life for women,..."
Using rules administered by whom? Smart people, right? Smart people like (with respect) you, right?
Hubris is unbecoming on you.
Science fiction author Connie Willis wrote a short story that is tangentially on this subject.
In the anthology I read it in, the author's note by Ms. Willis was that she had been questioned for not writing about Women's Issues.
Her following statement was that there was really only one Women's Issue that she could think of, and so she wrote the short story about it.
I was never clear whether she thought that the only Women's Issue of importance was menstruation, or some sort of social/technological pressure towards reducing the limits imposed by feminine biology.
Unlike many hard to measure, and even harder to address, differences between men and women, the difference in life expectancy is something we, as a society, have the power to equalize.
Fairness demands it!
Senator Tom Harkin argued women were almost incapacitated during their periods ... to advance the cause for free birth control. So what's next? Menopause leave?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/04/women-need-birth-control-mandate-for-menses
"At the same time, all you men ought to stop and think of the bodily burdens that are involved in being female. "
Nope. We've been taught women are equal to men. Shouted at, really, until we accepted it.
Now you want special treatment?
Lets check: two potential hires, both have strong qualifications. But one will be taking a few days off every month? Yah, we're going to hire/promote the one that can work 24/7.
Have to say I am seriously rethinking this equal rights thing. Women refuse to take responsibilty for their reproductive choices. And they cry "rape" when they wake up next to a loser. And they are so easily swayed by emotion...
I am beginning to understand why women were oppressed since the dawn of time. In fact, the fact that they were so easily oppressed for so long indicates that they are not equal.
There shouldn't be any special menstrual leave for women. If they need to call in sick then they can use s a sick day for that. Should they get sick days and also menstrual leave days? If thats so then men should get non menstrual leave bonuses for the same number of days given for women. Maybe they get time and a half for those days .
I don't think that you are really going to see a problem with combat pilots - too competitive
To dovetail with exhelodrvr1's excellent remark: its a good thing the business world is not competitive.
But, that reminds me of what happened during the deployment for the 1st Gulf War. A lot of pregnancies for women getting ready to deploy, esp. on ships.
It got so bad, one medical ship actually had to return to port.
Almost as many men die of prostrate cancer as women do of breast cancer...
Men should not take that lying down -- especially face down.
As far as women taking off more time than men theres this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/10660612/Women-are-almost-42-per-cent-more-likely-to-take-sick-days-than-men.html
And:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303592404577361883019414296
"The Labor Department defines full-time as 35 hours a week or more, and the "or more" is far more likely to refer to male workers than to female ones. According to the department, almost 55% of workers logging more than 35 hours a week are men. In 2007, 25% of men working full-time jobs had workweeks of 41 or more hours, compared with 14% of female full-time workers."
And of course women take off more time than men when it comes to raising families.
rhhardin said...
"Menstrual leave should be allowed for female managers."
Rather, for women who can't manage.
Only if they keep ragging about it.
elkh1:
Was the pun in "wilting flower" conscious or unconscious? If unconscious, think about it: someone or something that flows is a 'flow-er'.
"I thought I read that's not true."
Did you read it on a feminist site? I'm not saying they're liars ... haha, yeah, of course they're liars.
A quick googling turns up Finnish and UK studies that show that women do indeed call in sick more already. There were no U.S. studies that I found immediately, possibly because the risk of getting a politically incorrect answer would be unacceptable in academia here.
Women Take Most Sick Days Code
Women take more sick days than men Code
"How do you plan to "equalize" life for men? Our higher rates of workplace death and lower life expectancy."
I don't plan to equalize. I only ask that men occasionally reflect on how it feels to find out when you are 9 years old that your life is going to involve menstruation, month after month, until you are old. It's a hell of a thing! Then picture living like that.
And think about what going through pregnancy and childbirth really feels like. I doubt if anyone can imagine it well without actually doing it. Yet women do it willingly, year after year, and the human race continues.
Swim classes were in the nude--for hygiene reasons supposedly.
A friend of mine studied for a time in a Catholic seminary. They had to swim in the nude as well. He described it as a peep show for the priests.
One evening after court recessed during the O.J. Simpson trial, lead prosecutor Marcia Clark went to a nearby drugstore to buy tampons. She quickly fled in humiliation when a man in the checkout line loudly announced "It's going to be a bad week for the jury!"
Peter
Adding to the problem is that women who work together synchronize yery quickly and .... Never mind.
"I only ask that men occasionally reflect on how it feel - "
You first.
Especially considering your lack of awareness re men that caused the meltdown/shutdown of this site.
"I only ask that men occasionally reflect on how it feels to find out when you are 9 years old that your life is going to involve menstruation, month after month, until you are old. It's a hell of a thing! Then picture living like that. And think about what going through pregnancy and childbirth really feels like. I doubt if anyone can imagine it well without actually doing it. Yet women do it willingly, year after year, and the human race continues."
Oh come on, Ann, really? When I found out what was in store for me as a woman (at the tender age of 10), I hated the inconvenience of it. I was still climbing trees, playing 123 blacktop, swimming, etc. So it was all just inconvenient. I fought wearing a bra until my mother absolutely made me.
I didn’t think about the hell of it, or going through pregnancy and childbirth. Yes, childbirth can be pretty undignified, but it is a woman’s lot.
Men have their own problems/inconveniences, I am sure. But I don’t want to hear about them ad nauseam as women complain about theirs.
So no, women should not get special treatment if they want to be treated as equals.
Althouse is talkin', ahem, "Rag Time".
It is rather surprising that a country would add menstrual leave as a benefit, though it's not unusual for countries to have it, in Asia, at any rate. It's part and parcel of an approach to employment that says that workers need to be taken care of and have their daily needs met by the employer or by the state. Depending on the country, there will be such requirements as, if an employee works overtime, the employer is required to provide the meals that would usually be eaten in the overtime hours. There's extensive sick leave, and very narrowly tailored reasons an employer may fire an employee (including such provisions as, if you're jailed, they have to continue your pay to support your family).
What was not clear to me, in looking at the article, is the extent to which menstrual leave is indeed used by only the small percentage of women for whom cramps are debilitating (and whether, in Indonesia, say, they have access to ibuprofen), or whether it's taken as the norm to use these these days as "compensation" for the discomfort and inconvenience of menstruation.
But this is what I remember of cramps: tylenol didn't do much, but ibuprofen eliminated the problem almost entirely. It seems to me that I made the tylenol -> ibuprofen switch upon leaving for college? I don't really remember, but maybe my mom just didn't suggest trying something else?
And then I had my first kid, and the cramps were pretty much just gone. So much so that it was in itself an inconvenience: I couldn't tell, any longer, when I got my period.
Is it unfair that women have to deal with this hassle and men don't? Should we demand that the government make this more fair? Maybe we should get a tax credit for our monthly supplies. Maybe men should demand a tax credit to compensate for the fact that their larger bodies require more calories.
Wasn't there a Ray Bradbury (or other Sci Fi writer) short story about a world in which everyone had "handicaps" assigned to them to make everything fair?
Here is the answer, just require them for any woman that has a job
To help you choose, here are key facts about each brand:
Lybrel is a no-period birth control pill. It is the first low dose birth control pill designed to be taken 365 days, without a placebo or pill-free interval.
Seasonale has 12 weeks of estrogen/progestin pills, followed by 7 days of no-hormone pills -- which means 4 menstrual periods a year.
Seasonique has 12 weeks of estrogen/progestin pills, followed by 7 days of low-estrogen pills -- which results in 4 light, short periods a year. It is similar to Seasonale but has 7 days of low-dose estrogen instead of placebo pills.
Yaz is a less-PMS pill. It has a 28-pill monthly pack -- 24 active pills and 4 inactive pills. Your monthly cycle is shorter, lighter, more regular. Beyaz is similar to Yaz but with a form of folic acid added to prevent birth defects should a woman become pregnant.
Yasmin is a less-PMS, less-acne pill. It has 28-pill monthly packs -- 21 active pills and 7 inactive pills. Your monthly period is lighter, more regular.
http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/features/new-no-period-no-pms-birth-control-pills
@missred I agree that one ought to face reality and make the best of it and not complain about the normal facts of life, but I still insist: it's a hell of a thing.
"Wasn't there a Ray Bradbury (or other Sci Fi writer) short story about a world in which everyone had "handicaps" assigned to them to make everything fair?"
"Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut. Marvelous short story which should be read by all those who think that, if only they were in charge, life could be made more "fair".
The comments here establish it should not be a thing. Too many people are already prepared to assume that female managers & leaders might be affected by PMS and hold that against them. Enshrining the idea in any kind of special treatment would substantiate that prejudice, to the detriment of high-achieving women.
Of course, it would be be a boon to the lowest common denominator, "I have to go on stress leave because my boss called me on my bullshit" women, but they don't contribute as much as the high achievers.
Yet women do it willingly
Not so much anymore...at least according to the 56 million babies aborted since Roe......
"It's a hell of a thing."
It's heck being a man.
In my high school (and junior high, astonishingly) not only were group showers mandatory following boys' PE class and athletics, but for some reason the PE teachers and coaches would shower with us. I told my children this and they simply did not believe it. Another place and another time.
exhelodrvr1 said...
Thank goodness that women in the military don't menstruate!! Otherwise that might affect their ability to perform in the extremely difficult conditions they would be operating in!!
****
"Not now, Mr. Taliban, maybe next week,
"Cantcha see I'm on a losing streak?"
"ball washer"
Darrell - dude - you went to a seriously freaky school.
Women have "choices." Men have responsibilities.
If conservatives believe that feminism, in the form of insisting that men and women are equal, should be abandoned then conservatives should support differential treatment of men and women in the workplace.
In order to have a society at all we must accommodate child rearing. That includes periods.
Successful families tend to have one spouse who works less. That's usually the wife. No always, but usually, for reasons that make sense. Why get angry about this when we're concerned about the breakdown of family in this country? Shouldn't we support policies to encourage child rearing rather than penalizing it?
Women with horrible periods are much more likely to be on birth control or get a hysterectomy. That means they aren't having children. How's that going to work out?
I'm not going to get angry about women working fewer hours or whatever. I'll just work more and pocket the money for my family. Big deal. Married men work. News at 11.
"I don't plan to equalize. I only ask that men occasionally reflect on how it feels to find out when you are 9 years old that your life is going to involve menstruation, month after month, until you are old. It's a hell of a thing! Then picture living like that. "
She's luck she doesn't have to shave, I'm so lucky I'm not doubled up with pain. - squeeze, song about menstruation.
Regardless, women have to compete with the men. If that's a handicap, its one they need to overcome.
Also, conservatives need to stop conceding the point that feminism is about equal treatment.
No, it's not, it never has been, and trying to hold the ideology to a standard that hasn't existed for 50 years is a losing argument.
To illustrate, does anyone thing that women who work in restaurants or grocery stores are going to get "menstrual leave?"
Of course not. It's going to be for women in higher-status occupations.
Ever wonder why Sandra Fluke was the spokesperson for reproductive rights, as if someone who goes to Georgetown is ever going to be too poor to pay for birth control?
Because this is a class issue, not a gender issue. Modern feminism has a constituency, and it isn't poor women, or poor people in general. If it actually was about helping poor women we'd be hearing a lot more about maternity leave and child care and preschool (we do hear about these things but not from feminists) and a lot less about equal pay for office workers.
Modern, or post-modern, feminism is about advancing the careers of educated middle class and upper middle class women. It's an interest group, and it's an organized interest group. This is the core of Hillary voters, women who've worked their whole lives just to see someone (male) get promoted over them. Hillary knows all about this...
They're out there, and cross them at your peril.
Treat it as just another pressure group. It's a lobby.
I only ask that men occasionally reflect on how it feels to find out when you are 9 years old that your life is going to involve menstruation, month after month, until you are old. It's a hell of a thing! Then picture living like that.
I don't find my period that inconvenient. I think it would worse to be a teenage boy who had to hide the boners that came at all the most inconvenient times. Penises and balls hanging all over the place look far more inconvenient than bleeding for a few days a month.
And childbirth isn't nearly the struggle that it used to be. And of course most of the time, it's the woman who wants the baby more than her partner.
SOJO, just no.
Darrell said...
Swim classes were in the nude--for hygiene reasons supposedly. And you had to walk over a "ball washer" first--an 8-10-foot long pipe with holes on the top that sprayed you with cold water. The girls had to shower, too, at my high school. They used to complain about it all the time.
Kreezus Jist, man, where in the hell did you go to school?
I don't plan to equalize. I only ask that women occasionally reflect on how it feels to find out when you are 14 years old that your life is going to involve boners, day after day, until you are old. It's a hell of a thing! Then picture living like that.
Fixed It For You
Lucien: The comments here establish it should not be a thing. Too many people are already prepared to assume that female managers & leaders might be affected by PMS and hold that against them. Enshrining the idea in any kind of special treatment would substantiate that prejudice, to the detriment of high-achieving women.
Thats an excellent point. An admission that women are incapable of working during their period because it limits them physically would lead to the belief that it affects their mental state while working.
"Do you need to take a few days, honey? You're getting bossy again"
You already have 12 weeks of leave under FMLA that can be taken intermittently. What else is needed?
In my twenties and thirties, I'd have one excrutiatingly painful day during my period during winter months. Id stay home from work and in bed all day, in ac dark room. Sick time handles it just fine. No one needed to know why I was home sick.
How do you do "equal work" if you disappear from the workplace for one or more days every month?
This.
When men don't feel well, especially very sore muscles from hard physical labor, they are expected to take OTC medication and get back to work. Only workers with contagious sickness are expected to stay home, out of consideration for the other employees.
This, yet again, goes back to the expectation and demand from females that they be catered to when confronted by the normal discomforts of life.
My thoughts are that it is an instinctual response to discomfort that is used on male mates and may very well be a survival trait in a harsh natural environment.
But, now that creature comforts are completely taken for granted, with washing machines, HVAC, easy transportation and availability of food with just a trip to the store, women now are using applying dynamic in the workplace, seeking to remove the discomforts of the workplace to suit them as women, as well as have the workplace bend to their desired comfort levels, rather than be an employee that works the hardest and is productive. It goes hand in hand with women choosing to work largely in offices, with set hours and generous personnel policies, rather than outdoors with the jobs dictating the work schedule.
I do see less of it in the younger generation of women. But, the princess deference thing is definitely still going on.
"I only ask that men occasionally reflect on how it feels to find out when you are 9 years old that your life is going to involve menstruation, month after month, until you are old. It's a hell of a thing!
Oh, we do. Trust me, we do.
Those of us that have been married reflect on it every 30 days until menopause, then we reflect on how it only being once every 30 days was not so bad in retrospect.
Reflecting doesn't necessarily mean that we will then cater to your desires for preference in public life, due to your differences as a woman. Women are equal now and need to step up and drop the expectation of special preferences and favorable treatment due to their being female.
How do you do "equal work" if you disappear from the workplace for one or more days every month?
Exactly. Which is why I refuse to hire anyone who is a member of the National Guard.
Inga: why I refuse to hire anyone who is a member of the National Guard.
Because staying in bed with cramps is the same as serving your country.
Inga reinforces the stereotype that women are stupid emotional cripples.
Curious-Fen-Drago-Jeans shows he doesn't know how to read. Or he just hates women.
Or both.
And his obsession with Inga is really creepy. Did they used to date or something?
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