May 11, 2014

"Pope Francis never stops talking about the Devil; it’s constant."

"Had Pope Benedict done this, the media would have clobbered him."

ADDED: Remember how the media treated Justice Scalia when he dropped it into an interview that he believed in the devil:
Of course! Yeah, he’s a real person. Hey, c’mon, that’s standard Catholic doctrine! Every Catholic believes that.

34 comments:

YoungHegelian said...

As a good Jesuit, I'm sure the pope knows exactly who the Devil works for:

THE FRANCISCANS!


Old Catholic joke: What's the three things God doesn't know?

1) How many orders of nuns there are.
2) How much money the Franciscans have.
3) What a Jesuit knows.

ddh said...

The media don't believe much in God, much less Satan. If they did, they wouldn't be so inclined to see Republicans as evil.

RecChief said...

Pope Benedict never, ever said the following words to a reporter:

income inequality

Frances did.

simple as that.

The Godfather said...

If the Pope didn't believe in Satan, then we'd be pretty much screwed.

Original Mike said...

The devil made me buy this dress!

J Lee said...

Francis gets a pass for now on his frequent invocation of Satan because those who were irked by John Paul II and angered by Benedict for their alliances are hoping the new Pope will eventually call out capitalism and its adherents as Satan. (On the other hand, if he doesn't, but eventually starts throwing around the term as it pertains to abortion providers or the championing of same-sex marriages, look for his media profile to end up in the late John Paul II/Benedict territory pretty quickly after that...)

Lydia said...

RecChief said...
Pope Benedict never, ever said the following words to a reporter:
income inequality
Frances did.
simple as that.


Nah, it takes more than that. Here's Pope Benedict in 2011:

"In order to be true peacemakers, we must educate ourselves in compassion, solidarity, working together, fraternity, in being active within the community and concerned to raise awareness about national and international issues and the importance of seeking adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth, the promotion of growth, cooperation for development and conflict resolution."

the redistribution of wealth

I don't think Francis has been that explicit, but Benedict was toxic for other reasons to the left, so for the MSM it was "meh" when he said it.

Boltforge said...

Progressive Media shocked, SHOCKED I say, to find Pope is a Catholic!

Humperdink said...

Every Bible believing Christian understands and believes this. Look around this world today. What causes men (and women) to do evil? Let me know when you think you have the right answer.

This is no mystery to believers.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

@RecChief

Is that true? I'm not Catholic but it seems to me the Popes tend to be pro income redistributionist .

Googling

Pope Benedict Slams Capitalism, Economic Inequality
Calls for a new economic model, ethical regulations for markets

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/01/01-4

Wilbur said...

"progressive priests and bishops, particularly in the United States and Western Europe, have tended to couch Satan in more allegorical terms"

I had no use for those squishy, Hootenanny-Mass, liberal assholes when I was a kid. They should've just decided, as I did at age 13 in Catholic school, that the notion of a god who intervened in human affairs was a crock. I had more respect for the true, old-time believers.

How can someone claim to be a Catholic and not believe in the Devil?

AJ Lynch said...

The media can't get enough of a Pope but only when the Pope is spouting the same nonsense as an Obama or a Pelosi or some other very rich Dem who favors socialist policies, in America, for the rest of us.

Original Mike said...

"Every Bible believing Christian understands and believes this. Look around this world today. What causes men (and women) to do evil? Let me know when you think you have the right answer."

"Some people are assholes" seems a sufficient answer to me.

n.n said...

The devil is self-evidently real. Either as an independent entity, which corrupts human conscience; or as an emergent pattern of individual consciousness, which is mutually reinforcing.

mtrobertsattorney said...

Re: the Jesuit joke

an alternative last line is: "what the Jesuits are up to"

Bob said...

@YoungHegelian:

Another old Catholic joke:

A bunch of priests got together to ask God which Catholic order was the best. The reply came back, "All the orders are equal" and it was signed "God, S.J."

libertariansafetyguy said...

I'm a bigger fan of wealth creation than redistributing wealth. But I believe there is no limit to wealth in our world because there is no limit to the value we can provide to other. But if you believe in limit to those things, then wealth redistribution is the only to alleviate poverty - at least until the well runs dry. But the church did very well in the dark ages, so there's that.

Humperdink said...

Humperdink said:"Every Bible believing Christian understands and believes this. Look around this world today. What causes men (and women) to do evil? Let me know when you think you have the right answer.This is no mystery to believers."

Original Mike responded: ""Some people are assholes" seems a sufficient answer to me."

Really? That's the depth of your thinking? You think that describes cause the evil in this world?

Shake the dust off of ones shoes and move on. Thanks Mike. Wish you well.

Quaestor said...

Pope Benedict Slams Capitalism, Economic Inequality. Calls for a new economic model, ethical regulations for markets

This is Francis the Talking Pontiff talking through his mitre. If he was sincere he could set a big time mega-example by just walking across the Piazza S. Pietro into the the Vatican banking office and saying, "OK, guys 'n dolls, put in all in sacks; we're flying to Haiti!"

Of course, then he'd have to explain why Haiti was just as a miserable a shit hole after the big income redistribution as before.

traditionalguy said...

It is refreshing to see a Pope who has at least picked sides. Overlooking the enemy's existence seldom works.

A personal speaking spirit that rules the Kingdoms of the atmosphere is sought by power and money seekers. That is where Germany got Der Fuehrer...from a Satanic cult practicing witchcraft.

But exorcism of demons that people possess ( not the other way around) is small time. The Archangel Lucifer is the opponent, and only The Christ's return will finally defeat him.

In the meantime Satan will still get to laugh and enjoy his titles as The a Father of Lies, The Lawless One, and The Slanderer.


Falacrine said...

"progressive priests and bishops, particularly in the United States and Western Europe, have tended to couch Satan in more allegorical terms"

Fucking Anglicans.

Falacrine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Original Mike said...

"Really? That's the depth of your thinking? You think that describes cause the evil in this world?"

I see no evidence of the existence of some sort of supernatural bogeyman.

Mark said...

"We do evil from the free choice of the will."
-St. Augustine

Humperdink said...

Original Mike said: "I see no evidence of the existence of some sort of supernatural bogeyman."

As I suspected, you have no answers. The truth is eluding you.

Original Mike said...

@Humperdink: Your truth is that the existence of the devil is self-evident, no?

Humperdink said...

Nope Mike, I read and study. I don't shoot from the lip.

If I asked you who the 1st president of the United States was, your instant response would be George Washington. How do you know that? You never seen him. You are relying on information written by others.

I do the same.

I suspect you are not interested, but if you are interested in my sources, I can help you here. Most non-Christians are too self-assured to care.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I believe in spiritual warfare and spiritual attack and demonic possession and the whole nine yards, but something I yet don't understand is by what mechanism the adversary has access to/influence over my mind and thoughts. No other angels, fallen or otherwise, do. Why does he?

I could ask a priest but that is my contribution to today's Althouse discussion of the Evil One.

Original Mike said...

Sources? Sure, I'll listen. I'm intensely interested in the "origin question" (how did we come to be here?). I was raised Catholic, but frankly it reached a point where I found the appeal to "faith" unconvincing. I'm not self-assured. Call me unpersuaded.

Doug said...

Francis or Benedict, if a pope believes in redistribution of wealth, he is admitting that people of means can not be trusted to do good things for the less fortunate with their wealth. Therefore, the church or the government must appropriate wealth and do what the individual with free will can not or will not do. Guess what I think of the Catholic church?

Humperdink said...

Mike,
I could direct you to read Genesis regarding our creation, but I assume you have already read that and are not convinced. Try this. Read Psalm 22(written appx.1000 BC by David) that prophecies Jesus crucifixion (before crucifixion was utilized as a capital punishment method).

This is just one prophecy of hundreds in the old testament that have come to fruition.

Simon said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
"Is that true? I'm not Catholic but it seems to me the Popes tend to be pro income redistributionist."

Popes, who have no ex officio expertise on economics, tend to bring with them the assumptions and baggage with which they grew up. Thus, for example, Paul VI was an Italian, Francis is an Argentinian, and they tend to read social teaching through the lenses of Italian and Argentinian experiences with wealth and society, in ways that American Catholics find shockingly naive. Cf. http://simondodd.org/blog/?p=1258. It's important to remember (as popes sometimes forget) that Catholic social teaching neither obliges nor could oblige—given the limits of magisterial competence—Catholics to support government-controlled wealth redistribution. "The Church does not have technical solutions to offer," Benedict helpfully noted in Caritas in veritate, and papal pronouncements on the subject should be read with this in mind.

grackle said...

I believe that gods probably exist. I've worked out a proof for the probability of gods that would be too long for a comment. If anyone is really interested I'll create a website with the proof and provide a link. I define a god as a being of higher consciousness.

Since I believe that gods probably exist I allow also for the existence of evil gods, known by many as "Satan."

Paul Golba said...

"Some people are assholes" seems a sufficient answer to me.

This is an interesting point. I think the problem with this outlook is it is perfectly rational to be an "asshole" if there are no long-term consequences or, more practically, the gain outweighs the cost. True, killing, raping, stealing, etc. are a net negative to humanity as a whole, but for the person or persons on the taking end it may be a great boon. For the peasant with the likely life trajectory of a short, brutish existence, taking someone else’s stuff and living it up for however long it lasts can be a rational choice. Or for that matter it could make sense for a rich man to leave a pile of skulls to make himself marginally richer. Case and point, the Roman Republic/Empire was built on “assholery” on a grand scale. Come up with some excuse to invade the neighbors, kill a whole bunch of people, take their stuff, take their land, ravish the women, sell the survivors into slavery, write a few poems and erect a few monuments to the victory, lather, rinse, repeat. The empire started going downhill when they started respecting borders.

Of course, this taken to the extreme results in a civilization in ashes. But, hey, the last king who died of natural causes before the fall got to eat great feasts and sleep with whatever he wanted and make gold statues of himself, so he won. The people he left behind? Not so lucky. Screw ‘em.

If you add a higher power into the mix and bring forth true after death consequences, that changes the equation quite a bit. When being an asshole results in King Goldy McConcubine getting his punishment, whether it be a pit of fire or some ironic fate involving a very uncomfortable harem or simply cessation of existence, then the kill-y rape-y no longer makes logical sense. To do so anyway is evil, to revolt against the natural order of things.

Satan is there to convince you that evil is logical. How he goes about it varies. Maybe you have some sort of divine right that allows you, and only you, to justify doing very evil things. Maybe he’ll twist words until you truly believe that evil acts are actually good. And maybe he’ll masterfully argue that there is no higher power. The latter camp has quite a few members who are absolutely impressed with their own brilliance in rejecting “superstitions,” never quite realizing the horrors that logically result from their premises.

My two cents. Do with it what you will.