Althouse: "I jokingly refer to OkCupid as the Man Catalog. Clicking through profiles feels like sifting through the pages of the latest fall trends."

May 20, 2014

"I jokingly refer to OkCupid as the Man Catalog. Clicking through profiles feels like sifting through the pages of the latest fall trends."

"Oh, that 35-year-old who plays the mandolin would look great sitting next to me at the Weary Traveler; and that blue-eyed 30-year-old who likes to cook, he'd pair well with my appetite for Italian food."

From an Isthmus article titled "Looking for love online: Is Madison's singles pool big enough for dating success?"

42 comments:

Matt Sablan said...: It matters how you define "success" at dating.; 5/20/14, 8:23 AM
Sorun said...: "Is Madison's singles pool big enough for dating success?"

So many important questions, so little time.; 5/20/14, 8:26 AM
Matt Sablan said...: "Single in a city of only a quarter million, with only a fraction of those available to me."

-- How many of those are available? Let's do messy back of napkin math. Half of half a million are the gender she prefers, assuming men judging by what she wrote. About 40% of people above 18 are single, if I recall. Let's estimate down to about 30% in their late 20s early 30s, the +/- 5 for someone. Thirty percent of a quarter million is... 75,000 single men in the city.

If she can't find ONE good partner out of that, the problem, I think, is not with the 75,000 possible love interests.

Someone may want to check my math though.; 5/20/14, 8:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Crazy Street Corner Guy Off His Meds Says:

Harvey Keitel says that He is all any woman needs. We are watching the springtime girls with the springtime dresses and the springtime shorts pass by the corner, it is springtime, and Harvey says he can sense the emptiness that lies in each one. Some are unaware of their emptiness: Harvey says these are the ones with the shortest dresses and shortest skirts. Harvey says that -- more than Love -- a woman wants to be Consumed. Women want the Man with the Biggest Hunger and the Sharpest Teeth, and Harvey IS Hunger and Teeth, his soul is that of a shark, always moving forward. Harvey points to one woman and says that he would leave bite marks on her inner thigh so that she would always remember the Best that It Can Be. Even on the street, Harvey takes good care of his teeth.; 5/20/14, 8:30 AM
Matt Sablan said...: One last comment: I wonder how much different the article would be, written by a man. For example: "The initial plunge into Madison's online pool can be invigorating. The options seem endless, and the attention is flattering."

I don't think a man could write that, if OkCupid's statistics are to be believed on the rate of messages sent/responded to.; 5/20/14, 8:40 AM
Matt Sablan said...: Hah, my math is way off. I forgot to half the half of a million. So, it should be 250,000 people to start, 125,000 men, about 30% of those single men, or about 37,500. But now, I don't know.; 5/20/14, 8:55 AM
Mark said...: Madison can be very neighborhoody, and her article is of someone stuck in Shenks Corners and unable to see that there are places like Verona, Middleton, Sun Prairie where plenty of people in their 30s live.

If you live in a neighborhood of 20 somethings and families in a town whose downtown gets crowded with college somethings ... How many 30 somethings that aren't burn outs or hipsters can you expect to meet?; 5/20/14, 9:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Crazy Street Corner Guy Off His Meds Says:

Harvey Keitel says there is no need for Math when you know you are the One, indivisible and strong. Harvey will let No One add to him nor subtract nor multiply, he is the Universal Prime. When ten women walk by they are not ten, they are only Want, Want desired by the One, Want to be Consumed by the One, the One is the Only and the Only is Harvey, there is no Math. I do not like to talk Math with Harvey.; 5/20/14, 9:09 AM
Ann Althouse said...: But the one thing we know about single men (of marriageable age) is that no woman has married him. So what segment of those 37,500 men are unacceptable to a woman who's being at all selective? Cut the number in half. Of the 18,750 who remain, how many are active in the dating market (and using websites for their activity)?

Anyway, I was a single woman in Madison for 20 years, but I never thought of myself as typifying single women in Madison. I'm always surprised when I read these articles where women assume they represent what life is like for other women, but I guess that's what you do if you write articles about relationships. You generalize your experience. You assume others will identify with you. I would never feel comfortable doing that with sexual relationships!; 5/20/14, 9:09 AM
Joe said...: But the one thing we know about single men (of marriageable age) is that no woman has married him.

A divorced man is not single?; 5/20/14, 9:23 AM
Matt Sablan said...: I don't know, but I think putting a realistic number of around 18,000 potential suitors puts it into good perspective. In the NoVa/D.C. area, single people have significantly more than that, so it baffles me when men or women state they can't find anyone.

Probably only a fraction of that 18,000 uses OkCupid [I think only about 20% of people admitted to using dating sites, so, the pool is significantly smaller, since of those 20%, we don't know how many use OkCupid.]

It's still pretty amazing that someone with thousands of options can't find one person if they're really looking.; 5/20/14, 9:31 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "A divorced man is not single?"

Good point.

What we know is that no woman is having him in marriage now.; 5/20/14, 9:56 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "so it baffles me when men or women state they can't find anyone"

Considering that you have to be willing to have that person and he/she needs to be willing to have you, I can see how the number gets close to zero very quickly.; 5/20/14, 9:57 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Here's the thought that leads to hopelessness: Anyone who meets my standards will be able to find someone who meets higher standards than I can (or will) meet.; 5/20/14, 9:59 AM
cubanbob said...: Ann Althouse said...
Here's the thought that leads to hopelessness: Anyone who meets my standards will be able to find someone who meets higher standards than I can (or will) meet.

5/20/14, 9:59 AM"

Interesting. An inverse Groucho.; 5/20/14, 10:11 AM
Matt Sablan said...: Isn't the answer to lower your standards then?

... Am I the LEAST romantic person in the world or what people?; 5/20/14, 10:17 AM
Sorun said...: I haven't used those sites for a couple of years, but I found it's too easy to reject people for trivial reasons, such as politics. I think the "Man Catalog" aspect of it is a bug, not a feature.

I'm in a great relationship with a "Communist" but it has zero effect on us since we never talk politics (that's what the internet is for). We met in person. I never would've contacted her online, nor would she have ever contacted me.

I wouldn't be surprised if those lonely women who read the Isthmus and make an obligatory reference to shopping at the Coop reject a lot of men for political reasons.; 5/20/14, 10:24 AM
Brian said...: "Only a quarter million" is an order of magnitude larger than the community in which I had "dating success". And I know many people who had similar success in communities yet another order of magnitude smaller than mine.

It is, of course, true that "[a]t a certain age, the dating pool dries up into isolated puddles." But this has got very little to do with the total population of the community you live in.

To wit: these two ladies live in Los Angeles.; 5/20/14, 11:12 AM
Darrell said...: "We met in person."

I first read "prison." That in itself would make for a better anecdote.; 5/20/14, 11:21 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: "Oh, that 35-year-old who plays the mandolin would look great sitting next to me at the Weary Traveler; and that blue-eyed 30-year-old who likes to cook, he'd pair well with my appetite for Italian food."

I'm glad I waited to watch "Rome" because the timing couldn't have been better,...; 5/20/14, 12:02 PM
Larry J said...: The perfect is the enemy of the good enough. There is no "One" person out there for you. There are countless people who could make a good match if you give them a chance. However, if you go into dating with a long list of requirements, you narrow the field considerably. You also have to ask what you bring to the table yourself. Just because you find someone who meets all 158 of your requirements, there's no guarantee that person will like you in return.; 5/20/14, 12:36 PM
George M. Spencer said...: She hits the big problem with computer dating here:

"The danger of too much of a good thing is falling into the paradox of choice. Choosing between so many options might actually be psychologically taxing, causing undue anxiety or indecision."

Someone says that they like X music, or X restaurant, or X type of dog, and you rule them out because of one "quirk."

I'm on OkCupid, and it is an experience.; 5/20/14, 12:49 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Isn't the answer to lower your standards then?"

The standard is better than nothing. How high of a standard is that for you? For me, it's a high standard!; 5/20/14, 12:53 PM
Kirk Parker said...: Matthew Sablan,

"I wonder how much different the article would be, written by a man."

Something like this, maybe --

"...
I can hear them now, the heartless bitches:
'He's cute, but his nose is old!'
"

--Richard Brautigan; 5/20/14, 1:04 PM
Meade said...: Me too.; 5/20/14, 1:05 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: What I tell men my age that are dating is that they are in a good position. A good number of their competitors are dead. If you look at the gender ratio for age 35-40 it's pretty good for men. A lot more are in prison or have fallen into the pitfalls of drugs or alcohol, or refuse to work. Men seem to be better at self-destruction than women, so simply avoiding temptations puts a man ahead. If a man is alive and can work it puts him in the top 2/3 by age 40. Seems simple, right? Apparently not.

Many women are still single because they turned down too many men, or they are divorced. This is bad decision-making and focusing on things that are not important.

I don't look at men in their 30s as single because they are unsuitable. I see a lot of women with insane standards that are self-defeating.

High standards are fine (women should be choosy), but insane standards lead to misery. The truth is that successful men with high standards are going to go for younger women, not women in their 30s who passed up many opportunities.

Why are men so often criticized for an unwillingness to commit when there are so many women who will not? It's the same thing, but women call it "having high standards." The man who won't marry someone he isn't sure about has standards, too. What's the difference?

Men make themselves miserable by either insisting on women who look a certain way or by falling into misogyny. Misogynists are men who make poor choices and refuse to take responsibility for their own mistakes. Women are all individuals. Some are worthless, but it's usually pretty obvious who they are. Choosing a bad match is your own damn fault.; 5/20/14, 2:12 PM
Big Mike said...: Is Madison's singles pool big enough for dating success?

Probably not. I know of one Madison blogger who had to go all the way to Cincinnati to find true love.; 5/20/14, 2:28 PM
campy said...: "Why are men so often criticized for an unwillingness to commit when there are so many women who will not?"

Because all women are assumed to be great, and therefore any man who turns one down is by definition "too picky".; 5/20/14, 4:25 PM
Jaq said...: The article actually wasn't bad. I read it expecting it to elicit a few derisive snorts, but it seemed pretty reasonable and a good description of the situation.

I once, as a matter of curiosity, went on one of the services where you could look at the men for free but had to pay to see the ladies, I live in a small village, and I recognized practically every man on the site. It was pretty funny.; 5/20/14, 4:26 PM
George M. Spencer said...: Then there's the old joke about how men and women go shopping for a mate.

The men go to a department store that has three floors. On the first floor are women who will laugh at your jokes, the second floor women who will laugh and cook for you, and on the third floor women who will do those things and have sex with you. By the time men reach the third floor, all have found a mate.

Women, on the other hand, go to a department store that has 99 floors, each containing a man with different traits. Sadly, many women reach the 99th floor without having found a man.

Or so the joke goes.

I've had many a coffee shop date that's been in the form of an interrogation in which the woman runs through a laundry list of criteria I need to meet to be worthy of her.; 5/20/14, 4:28 PM
Allan said...: Maybe a lot of the available men are wearing shorts.; 5/20/14, 5:34 PM
Don M said...: The optimium algorithm for secretary (or mate) selection is known where you have to make the decision immediately after the candidate's interview, and an interview process is adequate to characterize the candidate.

One interviews a sample of "n" candidates, and rejects them all. Then you accept the first candidate that is better than all the prior candidates. "n" should be a smallish number, say 5 or 7 that would give you an idea of what the population is like.

The assumption is that you don't want to hold out for the very best, but you do want to reject the very worst.; 5/20/14, 6:02 PM
Anonymous said...: One cannot generalize but perhaps women having problems finding suitable men aren't suffering from unrealistically high standards but rather they are themselves unattractive/undesirable for any number of reasons. This will limit the candidate pool of men in their potential orbit of intimacy largely to cads in search of women to use. This handicap is not immutable. In my experience it is not insufficient numbers of men or lack of beauty or comeliness that hampers women. Every man will tell you of objectively plain women he has known that are enormously attractive because of their -don't laugh-personality, voice, laugh, grooming, physical modesty, intelligence, sense of humor and a general carriage born of an attractive self confidence. If you aren't finding romance look to these issues in yourself first. They are in your control, can be changed and may be acting as a man repellent. If so, you will never find an adequate supply of suitable men.; 5/20/14, 6:08 PM
David Davenport said...: I'd be ur slavw, my suitor whispered to me through his keyboard. He immediately corrected his typo.

When this pickup line plopped into my OkCupid inbox, swoon I did not. Instead, I LOLed, then felt pity, for both my suitor and myself. I was 32 and single in a city of only a quarter million, with only a fraction of those available to me. The comedy of this online encounter competed with my despair.

...

"Oh, that 35-year-old who plays the mandolin would look great sitting next to me at the Weary Traveler; and that blue-eyed 30-year-old who likes to cook, he'd pair well with my appetite for Italian food."

The "I'd be your slave fellow" is more germane and on point, if the goal is cutting through affected talk and pairing up with someone.

"Oh ... that mandolin" and so on at some hippy-dippy Weary Traveler venue is boring and pseudo-sophisticated and evasive of the emotional issues.

Couple of other issues: A 30-year-old man prefers women in their twenties. A fellow of 35 years is the same way. This 32 year-old woman is deluded about the appropriate male age range for her.

Also, women who mention cooking and food when flirting online -- they probably eat too much, and need to lose some pounds.; 5/20/14, 7:18 PM
Moneyrunner said...: Woman can't find a suitable mate. Is that a problem?; 5/20/14, 7:50 PM
Jaq said...: " Every man will tell you of objectively plain women he has known that are enormously attractive because of their -don't laugh-personality, voice, laugh, grooming, physical modesty, intelligence, sense of humor and a general carriage born of an attractive self confidence."

Google "Hot for Flo."

I think she is sexy because she is funny and totally accepting. Looks have zero to do with it, and I don't think she is a skinny beotch either and I have no real idea how big her breasts are.; 5/20/14, 8:12 PM
Desiderius said...: The laundry list of criteria is a screen to eliminate men who can't laugh at the laundry list of criteria.; 5/20/14, 8:31 PM
Desiderius said...: The laundry list of criteria is a screen to eliminate the men who can't laugh at the laundry list of criteria.; 5/20/14, 8:32 PM
David Davenport said...: Woman can't find a suitable mate. Is that a problem?

Depends on whether the woman is Left/liberal/Democrat or patriotic conservative.

It's fine with me if Leftists have fewer and fewer babies.; 5/20/14, 9:32 PM
David Davenport said...: Google "Hot for Flo."

I think she is sexy because she is funny and totally accepting.

Google so more, and you'll see that "Flo" is pretty in a conventional way, when she's not in her Progressive Insurance drag with too much lipstick and a a quasi-beehive hairdo.

But I agree with your point that women lacking conventional beauty can compensate somewhat by being outgoing and having a sense of humor... "vivacious."; 5/20/14, 10:27 PM
grackle said...: There are countless people who could make a good match if you give them a chance.

Yes, but they can be the devil to find.

Myself, I've never been too picky as far as looks are concerned. The face has to have interest, character or I guess an indefinable something there's no word for.

I like plump, I like skinny. Women today are too self critical of their bodies. I call it the "Vogue Syndrome." Maybe it's always been that way. Was Pompeia envious of Cleopatra's youthful body?

I too care little about politics or religion in a wife or girlfriend UNLESS they persist in trying to convert me. They'll always try, of course but need to desist once warned. Spirited debate is fine but there's a line that shouldn't be crossed.

There has to be sexual attraction, euphemistically called "chemistry." For me this has been unpredictable. I have found that sexy is as sexy does. You never know until after a couple of sessions.

I've learned that I should not take up with dumb females. They have to be intelligent. They have to be competent and refrain from self-defeating decisions. They can't lie a lot.

It puzzles me that geezers my age(71) run after young women. If they are much below my daughter's age they bring out the papa in me, not the lecher. For me there seems to be a range of attraction that right now starts around 40 and extends beyond my own age. My second wife was 17 years younger than me. I had a long time relationship right after that with a woman 8 years older than me.

An absolute: No nagging. Not even a little bit. If you don't like the way I do things get the hell away.; 5/21/14, 1:11 AM
etendue said...: OKCupid is an experience for sure. What I have found is that all the profiling is interesting, and people then tend to think about themselves with too narrow of definitions.

I chatted with a few women there who were quick to read my the riot act on my politics or whatever.

I went out for coffee with one woman who reluctantly saw me for coffee despite her insistence that she didn't want to see anyone with less than a 90% match (we were 70), and of very different political views on paper.

Well, one year later, we married, and have been happily so for 3 years now. Both of us were divorced prior to meeting.

We found that our differences on paper mostly evaporated in person. But more importantly, the paper interview/profiling aspects of the process completely miss out on things like chemistry and personal quirks or strengths -- which trump pretty much everything else.; 5/21/14, 9:16 AM