Now consider Texas state Senator Wendy R. Davis, who has recently been in the news being touted (however dubiously) as the Left’s technologically enhanced "feminist superhero." She is 50 years old.... If she has not found the Fountain of Youth, at minimum she has found very talented plastic surgeons and image consultants who have readied her for her closeup.Remarkable! It's like she's aging backwards. I wouldn't criticize her for this, though. The blogger at the link says:
For someone who in the early 1990s was a feminist activist in law school, and who is currently posing as a champion of women’s rights, standing up to men who seek to dictate the way women should live, she seems to have devoted an unusual amount of attention to her physical appearance.I assume the blogger is male. Maybe you are too and you need somebody to spell it out. The difference between the present-day pictures and the old Harvard Law School picture is attributable mostly to 2 things: hair and makeup. In the old photo, from 1991, she's wearing no (or almost no) makeup and natural hair. I remember 1991, and it was a real peak of feminist ideology. She fit her time. And she's fitting her time now.
Few American women today go on TV without makeup. It's not "Human Barbie Doll" to wear foundation and add definition to your eyes. It's distracting when a woman doesn't do that. Note that her eye makeup is far lighter than what has become the norm among TV news women, and she's doing that thing of emphasizing her eyes while leaving her lips almost natural — glossed, with no significant color. That's the well-known approach to toned-down makeup.
As for the hair, she's taken the simple and obvious steps of going blonde, straightening, and getting a somewhat competent cut. Blonde hair has a powerful effect, as many women have experienced. Who knows why it brings such glamor? The effect may be uncanny, but it's far simpler than a Fountain of Youth or plastic surgery, and it's available to anyone. You have to spend a little money to get it done with appropriate streaks, and so forth, but it's really not that big a deal. And for all I know, it's a wig Davis has got on.
Bottom line: Remarkable, but within the norm of reality.
Posts
205 comments:
1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»Good for her, she cares about her looks. Wasn't me suggesting it was ideologically impure for women to tart themselves up.
Wendy Davis, like Sandra Fluke of last year, is a flash in the panties.
Well, clearly Davis didn't follow all cosmetic surgery advice available at the time.
Explain to me something about the Wendy Davis dick waving:
After the gun background bills died in Congress, the mainstream media made demons out of those who voted against it and pundits like the execrable Rachel Maddow spent entire one hour TV programs seeking displaying how flabbergasted they were that legislators would go against the overwhelmingly polled will of the people(!). They constantly said the majority of Americans clearly supported gun background checks. How could anyone be so stupid and evil as to not support what the public so obviously in polls supported? So went the main point of the New Yirk Times and ABC and NBC and CBS and et al - it was their #1 argument in favor of passing gun control.
Wendy Davis filibustered a bill supported not only by a majority of Texans, but also supported by a majority of Democrats in Texas and a majority of Americans would like to see similar laws in the their own states.
So my question:
How soon before we see that paragon of makeup Rachel Maddow and her partners in propaganda condemn Wendy Davis for voting against the will of the people?
Those pics he gives as an example aren't Barbie Doll, are they? That looks more like an anime/Final Fantasy thing.
Chase, its not good to hold your breath that long
Makeup Smakeup, what about the Socratic method?
And let's be honest here people: how drunk would someone of either sex have to be to want to fuck Wendy Davis?
SteveR,
Just answer the question please.
"Few American women today go on TV without makeup."
Men too.
Women want to look attractive. So what. Wish more feminists would follow her lead.
how drunk would someone of either sex have to be to want to fuck Wendy Davis?
Um...
no comment
I don't mind when women put forth a little effort to make themselves more attractive. What I do mind is when it is only for the sales job, and it is dropped once they make the sale. A bit of dishonesty there and if you're dishonest in one part of your life, there's a good chance you're dishonest in other parts of your life.
BTW, are those pink running shoes sold with the catheter?
She has morphed in a "hottae" over the years. I appreciate the effort. The world can always use better looking women "by whatever means necessary".
Blonde, Wendy Blonde
She's about my age, and she looks great. It appears that she has found the look that works well for her, and she's kept in shape and taken care of her skin and such.
I'm less interested in what happened on the outside than what occurred to rot her soul.
If she is spending her own money, why should I care if she has had surgery? I just feel sorry for those surgical addicts.
Also, as a Texan and someone who is against abortions, I also recognize that there are cases where it is going to occur and I prefer less government intervention.
The justification, that is safety, in eliminating the vast majority of sites, is not valid. It is fixing a problem that does not exist. It is a round about means of ending abortions.
An example of this a federal regulation to decrease the risk of infections. Meeting this standard will cost my department several million dollars to implement and meet the regulation. To determine if it is effective statistically, will take approximately 4000 years worth of data.
"she's taken the simple and obvious [step] of . . . getting a somewhat competent cut."
Me-ow!
When you disagree with a politician, it's always a great idea to attack their looks, or the fact that they cry, or their parents/siblings/whatever.
You certainly don't want to debate the facts, or policy, because that's so boring.
She fit her time. And she's fitting her time now.
Ah, the conformity of feminism fit her.
it's remarkable that not getting fat is remarkable.
@ MasMan
Where were you when the left went after Sarah Palin?
P.S.
I don't think she's had plastic surgery. (Nose is the same -- a little odd on her left side).
She has, as above, found a look that works for her and has kept herself healthy.
Chase -- are you putty colored yet?
Only in your hands JAL . . . .
Chief Justice Barbie Doll Roberts Robot Says:
I View My Looks in the Same Manner I View the Constitution. I am Not a Ken Doll.
Apparently the slut shaming by Perry did not work, now it's on to GOP tactic two: Critique a woman's looks.
I am sure this won't inspire any war on women talk. None at all.
Throughout this, the Texas GOP has come off like a bunch of idiots who have no idea how to pass a bill or manage a media campaign. And Perry wanted to be President ... what a joke.
Along the lines of the valiant and future Democratic Hope Wendy Davis purposeful and perfectly made-up feminist cause:
American Way of Birth, Costliest in the World
Another reason to have more abortions!
YAY Wendy Davis, femist and make-up wxample extraordinaire! (I almost feinted!)
Mark,
Perhaps you can give us an example of a governor and a state legislature that have never lost a legislative fight.
Obviously, she avoids the Texas sun, but her little stunt was intended to let Mr DeMille know she's ready for her close up.
As for the hair, she's taken the simple and obvious steps of going blonde, straightening, and getting a somewhat competent cut.
There's something else hair-related she's done.
Peter
My guess? Fetal stem cell smoothies. Makes sense now, doesn't it?
Being good looking at fifty is not anywhere as much fun as being good looking at twenty.
My guess? Fetal stem cell smoothies. Makes sense now, doesn't it?
Chase, I am from Wisconsin. Our Senate had half of the members leave the state as a filibuster and the GOP still got their budget passed eventually.
Compare to this filibuster where they stopped it by hook and crook but with so little time left they failed to vote in time. Requiring a whole new session to be called because they were 5 minutes late.
Tell me that wasn't an epic fail. Tell me it wasn't media managed to make their opponent a star that made all the Sunday shows that very week.
And when the next election comes and the funding comes in from across the country, tell me again how creating this hero was smart.
Chase said...
Wendy Davis, like Sandra Fluke of last year, is a flash in the panties.
Nice.
PS OK, she's a lawyer and a politician, so she's never done anything strenuous that will give her bad knees, etc., except have her 2 designer kids, and, as noted, she clearly avoids the TX sun.
If she doesn't smoke (it isn't PC, after all), doesn't drink or do drugs, stays in some kind of shape and eats right, no biggie.
Lots of women nowadays look good at 50.
The Blonde did. Ann looks good at 62.
So what's the big deal.
Except the big build-up for her Next Big Step.
PPS Yeah, I can believe Choom's had some work done.
Where were you when the left went after Sarah Palin?
Here in Madison Wisconsin!
...a somewhat competent cut...
MEOW.
Good looking at 50 years old not so unusual.
Images of 50+ year old women...some saggy, boxtox_y, plastic_y looking but many just good-looking, whether by genetics or stealth.
Sorry David, didn't see your post before posting. Great minds...
Mark, thanks for the explanation, but younundercut your own argument with the key word "eventually".
Rick Perry did not make Wendy Davis a national celebrity. Mainstream news people like David Gregory interviewing her yesterday on "Meet the Press" do. The New York Times front page features do. They do not want to lose Congress to more Republicans in 2014, so they are seeking to crown whatever Dems they can.
Being good looking at fifty is not anywhere as much fun as being good looking at twenty.
What? I'd say the reverse is the case given how much more comfortable with themselves most fiftysomethings are than most twentysomethings.
Mark, thanks for the explanation, but younundercut your own argument with the key word "eventually".
Rick Perry did not make Wendy Davis a national celebrity. Mainstream news people like David Gregory interviewing her yesterday on "Meet the Press" do. The New York Times front page features do. They do not want to lose Congress to more Republicans in 2014, so they are seeking to crown whatever Dems they can.
The hair! Wow -- I wouldn't have thought it possible to change your hair so radically from that frizzy mess into something as smooth and styled, and I wouldn't have expected it to be possible for someone to lighten your hair so dramatically without looking "off" and your hair color not matching your complexion.
Plus she's got a big, toothy smile now, and a more modest one in the "before" pic. Is that something you can train yourself to do if it doesn't come naturally? Is there orthodontia involved?
Regardless of all that "cosmetic" stuff, she was awesome. Why is it that, when a woman is attractive, smart and articulate, like Wendy is,she has to be dismissed as a human "Barbie Doll". Please, aren't we past that yet. She, like you, Ann,is a smart, talented woman. That alone is enough to scare the bejesus out of jerks like Rick Perry. Davis for Governor!!!! I don't even live in Texas and i would support her.
Vicki from Pasadena
Conveniently, the lack of MSM coverage of the Gosnell case make it easy for the left to ignore the mendacity of Wendy's filibuster. It's an attempt to block oversight of abortion clinics in the exact same manner that abortion rights advocates did for years in PA.
I don't blame her for makeup, botox, whatever. High-def TV is unrelenting. You can look like a wrinkly old crone on high-def even you are a coug/MILF in real life.
And what MadisonMan said above, I echo. Making fun of someone's looks etc. is usually done by the left as part of their total tear-down effort. Just argue your case on its merits and leave her looks alone.
"Me-ow!"
I know. Sorry. But I just loathe that ratty this way and that hair that so many women have these days. 20 years from now, it will be laughed at, just like 80s hair. We'll say: What were they thinking? So I'm just encouraging people to see the problem now.
It's just a mess, in my view. Especially when hair extensions are involved. I think many women are pleased just to have something they can think of as "long hair," and it's clouding their perceptions.
This bizarre assemblage of flips and flaps has got to move on to something that simpler and smoother. And that bumper of overgrown then side-swept bangs is really bothering me.
lemondog said...
Good looking at 50 years old not so unusual.
Images of 50+ year old women...some saggy, boxtox_y, plastic_y looking but many just good-looking, whether by genetics or stealth.
One they don't show in that montage is the luscious Nigella Lawson. She, I'm sure, does a lot to maintain her looks.
Regarding lemon's theory, I think it's genetics + good sense (no bad habits) + some discipline (good food in the right amounts, not cooking oneself in the sun, etc.).
Ann Althouse said...
As for the hair, she's taken the simple and obvious steps of going blonde, straightening, and getting a somewhat competent cut. Blonde hair has a powerful effect, as many women have experienced. Who knows why it brings such glamor?
Because it's not brunette. The whole world is brunette and most races are condemned to it (why do black, Latina (American Indian, really), and Oriental women bleach their hair?). It's the anti-brunette.
The other problem is that red, which is the real stunner, requires a certain complexion (The Blonde played with it when she was young) to look right.
And a light blonde color will look better on a woman with graying hair than if she tries to go back to her original.
John Varley, the science fiction writer, envisioned a future in which biomedical breakthroughs allow people to customize their bodies like car enthusiasts customize their cars.
One story he wrote stuck with me: "The Barbie Murders," which even has its own wiki entry. Using technology a Barbie cult forms in which all members refashion themselves to precise Barbie specifications...
Just to note that everybody who appears on TV should wear make-up. Men and Women. TV bleaches you.
Just to note that everybody who appears on TV should wear make-up. Men and Women. TV bleaches you.
Wendy Davis is my state senator and before that was my city council representative for many years. She has paid much more attention to her physical appearance in the past 5-10 years since she divorced her second husband. She is intelligent and hard-working, but her political ambitions trump everything else. Her physical "makeover" was a big part of her move to a statewide -- and possibly a national -- stage. She is extremely liberal, but she is also extremely adept politically. Don't misunderestimate Wendy Davis.
My hair was red (not "carrot" type red) when I was young, but it started turning white by the time I was 20. It wasn't possible in the long run to keep it colored red, which is the only reason I fell back to blonde. Once in the last decade, I attempted to take it back to red, but it was a disaster, and I had to go right back to the hairdresser and get it redone blonde. I became quite aware of how much glamor there is in the blonde, which I'd gotten used to. Without it, I was shocked. (There was also the problem of the red not being the right red, but I wasn't willing to fool around with redoing the red. I wanted back to the old reliable blonde.)
She had on pink tennis shoes!
She's beautiful!
Go-Team-Infanticide!!!
Maybe she's really a blonde and died her hair brunette back in the day to enhance her perceived intelligence?
Ann Althouse said...
My hair was red (not "carrot" type red) when I was young, but it started turning white by the time I was 20
Out of curiosity, why did your hair go white at 20?
Illness?
(There was also the problem of the red not being the right red, but I wasn't willing to fool around with redoing the red. I wanted back to the old reliable blonde.)
Excellent point.
There's all kinds of red from light carrot to red chestnut like my sister with the dark Maureen O'Hara somewhere in between.
Blonde, in its darker shades, quickly merges into chestnut brown and ceases to be blonde.
I don't think those tits are 50.
I could be wrong.
"Out of curiosity, why did your hair go white at 20? Illness?"
I said it started going white. I could always find a white hair somewhere on my head, even as a teenager. It's just genetics... instability of pigmentation. I think this is common in redheads... as are freckles.
That guy's blog post is silly. It isn't difficult to discern that she just changed her hair, put on makeup, and kept in shape. The fact that the guy found her "transformation" so notable only attests to the power of blonde.
Mark sez:
Tell me that wasn't an epic fail. Tell me it wasn't media managed to make their opponent a star that made all the Sunday shows that very week.
David Dewhurst is a screw-up! He grasped defeat for jaws of victory last summer when Cruz the Unknown came from nowhere to kick his ass!
Now this! He clearly let this thing drag out until the last minute and made the filibuster stunt possible! Then he let them try to claim the vote was taken in time! Then he had to admit that the vote was too late!
NOW, the circus starts all over again today, with TONS of national attention! First Cruz, now Wendy!
I had a dream last night that a very beautiful woman convinced me that we should get together later on to have sex.
She then somehow used her vagina to grab the head of my penis so I'd have an idea what to expect.
It lasted only an instant but it felt great and that's when I woke up because I was afraid I'd achieve orgasm and ruin everything.
I'm kind of neurotic.
Ann Althouse said...
Out of curiosity, why did your hair go white at 20? Illness?
I said it started going white. I could always find a white hair somewhere on my head, even as a teenager. It's just genetics... instability of pigmentation. I think this is common in redheads... as are freckles.
My sister didn't have that problem and, growing up in a half-Irish neighborhood, I can't remember another girl that did, so it may well be in your family. It sounded as if there was a lot more gray (I've had a couple of gray hairs since my teens).
I only asked because I knew a couple of people my age when I was young who went all white over a couple weeks due to some kind of fever.
As for smooth hair Ann, not always a possibility with curly hair.
OK, I rarely do this, but: I'm calling boob-job on this.
Not that it matters, or is even appropriate for us to discuss. But that's not going to stop me -- let's take a closer look at those sweater-muffins.
From her bony sternum and from the way the tendons stand out in her neck, it appears as though, not counting her boobs, she has a body fat content of about 6%. That does not often naturally occur in conjuction with 10-pound-apiece-jugs.
Wendy Davis is gorgeous.
Her filibuster has reinvigorated women to stand up to the continuous assaults on choice from male rightist dominated legislatures and senates.
The 20 week limit wasn't the biggest issue for me, it was the fact they didn't allow exceptions for rape or incest. Women still have a right to chose a legal early abortion, until these majority rightist males get their way. Also the fact that only five abortions clinics would be available for a state as huge as Texas.
Women have noticed. Thanks Wendy. And shame on Perry, what a damn dope.
7/1/13, 10:58 AM
Lots of women look better as they age. Vanessa Williams looked way hotter at 40 than when she was 20, IMO.
Thing with surgery is that most overdo it and look like burn victims, when relatively small changes will look far more natural and better.
She should recommend her surgeon to those Hollywood big shots.
If there were 5 clinics left open, how far would a woman have to drive, at the farthest, to reach a clinic, either in Texas, or in a neighboring state?
200 miles? 300? The horror.
I was out west once, near the Colorado/New Mexico border, and the nearest place in any direction to get a burger was 35 miles. I think those people out there are used to driving long distances.
You go, Inga, couldn't have said it better myself.
What Davis was fighting was and is, injustice against women.
Vicki from Pasadena
Inga said...
Wendy Davis is gorgeous.
Her filibuster has reinvigorated women to stand up to the continuous assaults on choice from male rightist dominated legislatures and senates.
The 20 week limit wasn't the biggest issue for me, it was the fact they didn't allow exceptions for rape or incest. Women still have a right to chose a legal early abortion, until these majority rightist males get their way. Also the fact that only five abortions clinics would be available for a state as huge as Texas.
Women have noticed. Thanks Wendy. And shame on Perry, what a damn dope.
Takes one to know one and the big show only proves how easily gulled Lefties are.
The She Devil of the SS (the one who keeps saying how she loathes abortion, BTW) is cheering on some woman trying to give herself a little free PR on an issue said She Devil never heard of until a week ago.
Thanks Vicki!
The 20 week limit wasn't the biggest issue for me, it was the fact they didn't allow exceptions for rape or incest
Hysterical.
I guess it takes a woman who is a victim of incest 5 months to decide if she wants an abortion.
Or something.
12 year olds may not know they are pregnant until after the 20th week. Some may not know until they actually deliver.
Dopes like Jay should butt out of women's issues.
Inga said...
12 year olds may not know they are pregnant until after the 20th week. Some may not know until they actually deliver.
You're shrieking goof talking about things which happen at a 1:20 million clip.
Inga said...
12 year olds may not know they are pregnant until after the 20th week. Some may not know until they actually deliver.
Dopes like Jay should butt out of women's issues.
As I say, it takes one to know one.
And murdering helpless babies is a women's only job.
Unless the practitioner is named Kermit or something.
Jay could be your son Ed. You should adopt him.
In inky's America some "12 year old" can be allegedly raped and "not know" she is pregant up until being delivered - a preposterous scenario - so therefore Wendy Davis is beautiful!!!
inky wants 12 year olds to have abortions.
That's nice.
Inga said...
Jay could be your son Ed. You should adopt him.
You're the one obsessed with him
PS I see you don't want to talk about the men involved in abortion.
I shouldn't wonder. The butchers are OK to be involved in "women's issues".
And today we have Hillary! and Wendy Davis as examples of modern women. What a pair of slugs.
Why not add Ilsa Koch (you knew her) and Magda Goebbels?
Jay wants a 12 year old to have her father's baby, or her rapists baby.
Putting "access" above safety is what enabled Gosnell's hell hole. The DOH refused to set foot in abortion clinics, or strengthen safety regulations, because they knew that existing clinics would have to be shut down.
Wendy and those who support her will have Gosnells on their conscience.
Keep running from it, sweetie.
You can run, but you'll only die tired.
12 year olds may not know they are pregnant until after the 20th week. Some may not know until they actually deliver.
Is this an argument for infanticide, Inga? I'm not following here. The purpose of the law is to protect the human being, right?
No, it's to advance the Lefty agenda, according to the She Devil of the SS.
until they actually deliver
So the law should have an exception to permit abortion after delivery in that circumstance?
Yes, women! It is almost like someone screaming "death on your pussy" to propose modest standards for the operation of abortion clinics.
Inga said...
Jay wants a 12 year old to have her father's baby, or her rapists baby.
I love the fact you are positing this as some sort of realistic scenario.
You represent the infanticide position well.
No of course not. And if the incest victim is far enough along in her pregnancy, the termination of the pregnancy should be through induced labor, with the child born alive, kept alive of course.
No of course not. And if the incest victim is far enough along in her pregnancy, the termination of the pregnancy should be through induced labor, with the child born alive, kept alive of course.
7/1/13, 12:01 PM
And how does that happen when abortions are being performed in clinics that have no capability of providing neonatal care?
Is Jay so incredibly ignorant that he doesn't realize a 12 year old could get pregnant?
In cases of late term abortion that occur under the exception for incest or rape, they should be sent to a hospital setting.
Abortion of the pregnancy, not the baby.
Inga said...
Is Jay so incredibly ignorant that he doesn't realize a 12 year old could get pregnant?
You're so dumb it isn't funny.
I think aging women should lighten their hair as they get older because it seems to make them look younger.
Jay, really you SHOULD NOT comment on women's issues. You are so ignorant you have no business in this discussion.
Inga said...
Jay, really you SHOULD NOT comment on women's issues
Uh, killing a baby after 20 weeks of pregnancy is not a "women's issue"
You idiot.
Inga, do you really think the rare exceptional cases are significant enough to trump the need to stop aborting thousands of other babies post 20 weeks?
For that matter, why is it in only in cases of rape or incest that you think that it's OK to terminate, when there are also women who got pregnant through consensual sex but didn't realize it until after the 20 week cutoff?
And do you realize that no one, in any state, to my knowledge has ever proposed what you propose here- that late term terminations be performed by induction of labor in a hospital setting with the intent of trying to keep the baby alive?
And do you also realize that the Gosnell case showed that women die as a result of abortions performed in poorly regulated clinics, making it essential to include safeguards like hospital priveleges for the doctors performing them?
On balance, if you know these things, I don't see how you could oppose a bill like this in good conscience when the status quonis likely to lead to much more pain and death than the unusual cases you are ruminating about.
When you've been reduced to trying to defend killing babies after 20 weeks by using a hypothetical regarding 12 year olds that is so statistically insignificant it is near zero, I'd say you're a moron.
Mark,
I'm interested to know more about this "slut shaming" of which Gov. Perry is supposedly guilty. From what I read, in regards to Wendy Davis, he make the extremely common pro-life point that every life has value, that people born into less than ideal circumstances still make valuable contributions to society. Did he say something different of which I am not aware?
CStanley, perhaps when new laws that concern themselves with abortion reforms ar written, they could include some of the things I've mentioned, instead of jumping to limit all abortions after the 20th week. The Texas law was not well thought out and too restrictive.
Exceptions for rape and incest are important to not FORCE an already traumatized victim into yet more trauma.
By the way, Wendy Davis and her progressive dim bulb cheerleaders--particularly the ones who have never set foot in Texas and don't even know what the legislation contains; they just want someone to worship--make me want to puke.
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14
Exceptions for rape and incest are important to not FORCE an already traumatized victim into yet more trauma.
7/1/13, 12:38 PM
The pregnancy adds emotional stress for those victims of rape and incest no matter what. Killing the baby or putting the mother in a hospital to induce labor and then having a baby fight for it's life don't seem to be more humane solutions than supporting the woman through the rest of the natural pregnancy and arranging adoption.
I've been to Austin several times, lovely city, reminds me a bit of Madison. My friends there are musicians, I've been to a few great house concerts.
Some people come into their looks later in life. When I tell people that Robert Redford was better looking than me thirty years ago, they laugh. But it's true. Robert Redford used to be better looking than me. He hasn't gone the plastic surgery route, but I wonder how it came to pass that his hair has remained the same color all these years.....Babies don't look cute at twenty weeks. They don't come into their looks until the 24th week.
So sorry for you Inga.
Men can back out of women's issues as soon as a woman can become pregnant with out any male contribution whatsoever. Good luck with that.
And Wendy Davis represents the evil that still seeks its selfish desire over the lives of others in this country. She is a cunt, or, if you prefer, prick. And she will always be such, no ifs, ands, or Wendy Davis assholes.
that every life has value
. . . .unless Wendy Davis or Inga or other low IQ never think for themselves women have their way.
"..... represents the evil that still seeks its selfish desire over the lives of others in this country. "
7/1/13, 1:01 PM
The lives and uteri of women in this country.
Yes even adult, teen and even pre teen female lives have value.
Yes even adult, teen and even pre teen female lives have value.
7/1/13, 1:09 PM
Yet you are not supporting a bill that would protect them from unscrupulous abortion providers, Inga.
Yes, even preborn lives have value.
Oh wait . . . Inga's list didn't include just born lives either.
But what else would you expect from a supporter of such infant killers as abortion provider Kermit Gosnell.
Yes, of course, men should all just shut up and never, ever express an opinion on abortion or birth control, as it has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Paying for them, on the other hand ... that's right, fork it over boys.
which now makes me want to ask:
Inga, at what age is killing children no longer acceptable to you? Sandy Hook age old enough? Would it have been okay if the Sandy hook shooter had blown away a room full of just borns in a hospital wing?
I've stated many times here on Althouse that I would be in favor of limiting abortion to the FIRST trimester, with exceptions for incest and rape.
Inga: Leland, I've said here several times that I don't believe abortions should be legal after the first trimester, or at the latest 18 weeks.
Nope, IMO, intelligent thoughtful men may feel free to opine on women's issues, that naturally excludes Jay and his dad Edutcher.
Thank you Leland.
I've stated many times here on Althouse that I would be in favor of limiting abortion to the FIRST trimester, with exceptions for incest and rape.
That's a new caveat. I quoted you in full back in February. I even provided a link. Your position seems to have changed.
Inga said...
Is Jay so incredibly ignorant that he doesn't realize a 12 year old could get pregnant?
Is the She Devil of the SS so callous and stupid she doesn't realize this is not behavior one wants to encourage?
Inga said...
Yes even adult, teen and even pre teen female lives have value.
Only the female infant ones don't.
I wonder if her daughter, the Marine "Corpseman", know what a bullet she ducked.
Nope, IMO, intelligent thoughtful men may feel free to opine on women's issues, that naturally excludes Jay and his dad Edutcher.
If you watch closely, the She Devil of the SS never wants to answer a rebuttal.
Largely because she never has one.
I've stated many times here on Althouse that I would be in favor of limiting abortion to the FIRST trimester, with exceptions for incest and rape.
But she applauds as champions of "women's rights" those women who want late term abortions.
Got it.
The 20 week limit wasn't the biggest issue for me, it was the fact they didn't allow exceptions for rape or incest. Women still have a right to chose a legal early abortion, until these majority rightist males get their way. Also the fact that only five abortions clinics would be available for a state as huge as Texas.
Inga, can you explain WHY there would be only 5 clinics available in Texas?
Can you explain what the odds are of infections et al while performing an abortion?
Because the two are closely interconnected.
But, hey, the only people victimized by Gosnell were women, so men shouldn't have tried to stop them...and, wow, pro-abortion men DIDN'T try and stop them.
Just as you want, Inga.
So why were you allegedly opposed to what Gosnell did? It wasn't his job to worry about women's issues, right?
Dopes like Jay should butt out of women's issues.
So Jay has no business being concerned over a 12 yr old girl being raped?
It's not a man's issue, after all.
I've stated many times here on Althouse that I would be in favor of limiting abortion to the FIRST trimester, with exceptions for incest and rape.
So, NO limits if the woman claims rape or incest?
Do they need to provide a modicum of evidence for their claim?
Nope, IMO, intelligent thoughtful men may feel free to opine on women's issues
Read: Dudes who agree with me.
Most men don't mind women killing babies. It's way easier on us.
Do you support outlawing forced child support? Shouldn't men be permitted to be irresponsible?
Why is it that, when a woman is attractive, smart and articulate, like Wendy is,she has to be dismissed as a human "Barbie Doll".
I'm sure you complained when the woman was Sarah Palin, am I right?
I am concerned with the pain and suffering of the baby, I'm also concerned with the pain and suffering of the mother, who is also human. If Americans want abortion reform, they are going to have to face the fact that it cannot be all or nothing.
Absolutists always lose.
Absolutists always lose.
So does that mean that you are reconsidering your opposition to a bill that achieves one of the goals that you think is appropriate (banning the killing of babies who feel pain) even though it isn't 100% ideal in your view?
That's a new caveat. I quoted you in full back in February.
I doubled check. Why the post was about a rape allegation, no where in the comments did Inga mention incest. No exception caveat at all was mentioned in February. I also note that she made her claim of 18 weeks as if that's some common ground we should all share, yet the goal post just moved beyond 18 weeks to now past 20 weeks. Again in this thread, she mentions absolutists, but the Texas bill wasn't absolute. It gave 2 more weeks than Inga insisted upon for any woman, regardless of rational, to perform an abortion.
I could be wrong but I think Inga just compared the pain of gestation and delivery with the pain of being ripped apart in utero.
I'm more concerned about the latter, myself.
Ethical dilemmas are hard, but if I had a choice to save thousands of (pain sensitive) babies from having their brains sucked out or preventing one young girl from enduring a couple of additional months of pregnancy and giving birth to a full term baby, and had to choose one or the other...
I don't find that a difficult choice at all.
Evidently you do, Inga, and I'd like to know why.
Leland, you are nit picking. First trimester is my preference, 20 weeks will be what most likely could pass and be acceptable to many more people than the first trimester. As for an exception for incest, of course there should be one, as well as for rape in well documented cases.
As I stated earlier, when these new abortion laws are being written, it would be more likely to be accepted by more people such as myself if they were written with more thought and less knee jerk across the board anti abortion sentiment.
If you watched the livestream, the GOP broke all sorts of rules in trying to stop her fillibuster. they flagrantly ignored rules in ways that everyone watching could see.
Also, when they tried to stamp the wrong date on the vote, did they break the law?
The other thing is, the arbitrary demolition of 2/3 majority needed for Senate to pass bills. I am actually torn on this one though. I like the fact that Davis had to actually filibuster. I hate, hate, hate the way that in the U.S. Senate, it's enough to threaten a filibuster. Rand Paul's "talking filibuster" was not a "talking filibuster," but in reality, a "filibuster." I'd like to see this be the new normal.
Finally, I think it is strange that Perry or any governor anywhere can just keep calling one special session after another until they get the result they want. Seems more than a little absurd. But then again, is anyone surprised? I keep meaning to look into, can every governor in every state do this, or is it just a few? But I haven't looked it up yet.
Inga said...
I am concerned with the pain and suffering of the baby, I'm also concerned with the pain and suffering of the mother, who is also human. If Americans want abortion reform, they are going to have to face the fact that it cannot be all or nothing.
Absolutists always lose.
Translation:
If the DNC and Kos support it, so do I.
Inga raises an interesting question: in the case in which late-term abortions are banned, would an induction -- with the intent of providing care to the child, not leaving it in a broom closet -- really BE an abortion in the first place?
Jane it would be an abortion of the pregnancy, but not the child, IMO. Semantics?
Abortion means fetal death. I think the word you are looking for is termination of pregnancy.
Just looked up abortion definition, it's the termination of the pregnancy, not necessarily the baby.
Rape and incest are horrible crimes and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. They can truly be termed evil.
So I guess what people feel is that a child born from this act is also a crime and evil and should be killed?
Translate abortion | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of abortion
noun
1the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.
the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus by natural causes before it is able to survive independently.
Biology the arrest of the development of an organ, typically a seed or fruit.
2an object or undertaking regarded by the speaker as unpleasant or badly made or carried out.
Origin:
mid 16th century: from Latin abortio(n-), from aboriri 'miscarry' (see abort)
abortion in other Oxford dictionaries
Definition of abortion in the British & World English dictionary
So we need some better terminology. As care for premature babies improves, one hopes not only that outcomes will improve but cost will decrease, and the standard of care for a woman later in pregancy who no longer desires to be pregant would be an induction. Certainly for "life/health of mother" cases, but also for "incompatible with life" cases where the child will inevitably die, but early induction spares the parents to some degree, and potentially other cases.
An induction should not be called an abortion, even if technically that's the term -- think of a woman with preeclampsia who's induced early. No one says "she had an abortion and the baby survived."
Jane, I agree.
I am concerned with the pain and suffering of the baby, I'm also concerned with the pain and suffering of the mother, who is also human. If Americans want abortion reform, they are going to have to face the fact that it cannot be all or nothing.
...says the person opposing insuring that abortion providers have hospital admitting priviliges. Who opposes any actual restrictions on a barbaric practice.
Who the fuck do you think an absolutist is here?
Finally, I think it is strange that Perry or any governor anywhere can just keep calling one special session after another until they get the result they want. Seems more than a little absurd. But then again, is anyone surprised? I keep meaning to look into, can every governor in every state do this, or is it just a few? But I haven't looked it up yet.
It's how Arizona ended up killing itself by expanding Medicare to use Obamacare...
Nice thought, but one hopes for those things in vain.
Babies who are born in botched abortions rarely survive. In part that happens because the abortions don't occur in facilities that can provide neonatal care, but even if the life support were there they would not receive it. We know this because babies born alive are not even given the most basic care that a full term infant would require to survive, such as swaddling for warmth, this is because neither the women nor the medical staff want the babies to survive. They are discarded.
Leland, you are nit picking.
That's a lie. I quoted you in full and provided a link to the source.
They are discarded
And certain senators who oppose laws to protect them from being discarded go on to become president.
Jane and Inga, does this sound like a society that would support your proposal?
harrogate said...
If you watched the livestream, the GOP broke all sorts of rules in trying to stop her fillibuster.
No they didn't.
And you couldn't name any such rule which was broken.
While I find the idea of induction-to-avoid-late-term-abortion intriguing, I'm not sure that it would work in practice. Preemies, particularly micropreemies, require such expensive intervention and the outcomes are often not good, which of course I know that our medical people (Dr. Stanley and Inga) know. I'm not buying that sparing a woman another 15-20 weeks of pregnancy is worth giving a baby a reduced chance of survival and thousands of dollars in NICU bills. Then again I've never bought that pregnancy and birth is such a hellish experience anyway, so there's that.
Since we are now talking definitions...
Inga now: as well as for rape in well documented cases.
But from my the link I provided earlier:
garage mahal said...
Wouldn't transvaginal ultrasounds fit the term "rape" under our legal statutes?
2/18/13, 1:00 PM
Inga said...
Garage, yes. Or about as close to it as one can get.
2/18/13, 1:03 PM
So in February, Inga's definition of rape included transvaginal ultrasounds.
I'm glad inky is here revealing this scourge of 12 year old girls who have been raped and don't know they are pregnant but end up in the delivery room!!!
CStanley, as I said earlier, later term abortions because of rape or incest should not be performed in abortion clinics, but should be referred to a hospital setting, or specialized clinics that have such capabilities, not ALL clinics need be surgical class clinics, for abortions up to the 20th week.
And CStanley, we won't know if society accepts this until we try. Would it be better to keep abortion as it is NOW? Or to drive women to back alley Gosnell clinics again?
But where are the politicians who would support that, Inga?
Inga, failing to pass stricter requirements on abortion clinics by supporting the Wendy Davis position is driving women to Gosnell tyoe clinics right NOW.
Pants, most women would be getting an early abortion.
How much money should we place on the life of a preemie? Wouldn't it be worth the cost to safe the life of the unwanted baby?
At any rate incidences would be low.
CStanley, not ALL abortion clinics need to be surgical centers as is required in the Texas Law.
Would you agree that all surgical abortions should only be performed in facilities that meet the same standards for any other surgical procedure?
True that incidences would be low (they already are with both rape/incest and late-term abortion) but I was responding the the question raised about inducing vs. aborting the late-term babies that do come across the transom. I certainly prefer induction + NICU for late-termers to abortion, but I prefer making the mother wait until full term to deliver (and then adopt out or keep the baby as she/the father decide) to abortion-avoidance induction. Hope that makes sense : )
Inga said...
CStanley, not ALL abortion clinics need to be surgical centers as is required in the Texas Law.
Sure, Dr Gosnell's place was OK.
Any old where with a vacuum cleaner will do.
Remember, this is a "nurse" saying this.
Yes CStanley, but not all abortions are surgical.
Sorry C Stanley is see you specified surgical abortions. So yes I would agree.
That is the distinction I was making, in order to clarify your position.
I was not aware that the TX law was requiring it for all. I can see that objection but also don't know how many clinics actually exist only to do medical abortions. Is that really a common type of facility? IE, are the clinics that the critics are claiming would shut down actually now only performing medical abortions? And if not, would they stop performing surgeries and only do medical abortions if the law was written to allow for that?
And if so, wouldn't the choice activists still complain that this would limit access for women who were too far along?
My specific complaint here is that the prochoice lobby will oppose even the laws that seek to bring surgical facilities up to normal standards, because they claim that there is no reason for this other than the conservative desire to make abortion less accessible.
Rape and incest are horrible crimes. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and anyone who commits these heinous acts should be locked up and they should throw away the key.
But if rape or incest is the cause of the pregnancy is that a surprise where the victim does not figure it out until 20 weeks later. I mean they don't recognize it as a rape or that the dude was their brother?
Once the baby is viable and can live outside of the mothers womb is it still evil and should be killed no matter what?
Because?
I mean this sounds like a great concept for a new reality show on MTV.
"I Didn't Know I was Pregnant from Rape or Incest" and they can have the baby on the toilet or something like they usually do in these type shows.
Oh darn I'm not able to hyperlink to this article from the San Jose Mercury News, it's called A guide to the fight over the Texas abortion law.
"medical abortion"?? I didn't realize that Planned Parenthood managed to make that euphemism mainstream.
What a creepy term -- to label the drugs that cause abortion "medicine," which in the real world is defined as drugs intended to cure an ailment. How about chemical abortion, or pharmaceutical abortion?
My specific complaint here is that the prochoice lobby will oppose even the laws that seek to bring surgical facilities up to normal standards, because they claim that there is no reason for this other than the conservative desire to make abortion less accessible.
Nail, meet head.
Wendy Davis is a death cultist scumbag.
Inga, i googled, found, and read it.
I think they mistakenly wrote that 37 out of the 42 clinics cutprrently meet the ambulatory surgical center requiremnts (assume it should say that 37 out of the 42 do not.)
The missing piece of information though, is how many of the 37 are currently performing surgical abortions? If it is most or all of them, then aren't the opponents of the bill using this as a dodge if this is the objection they raise? After all, they would still have the same complaint, that those clinics will either have to upgrade or stop providing surgical abortions.
CStanley, yes you're right. Should be that 37 don meet the surgical center requirements. I don't know how many are surgical, good question, wonder if there are statistics somewhere? Will go look.
What a soulless discussion. Can’t decide if it’s more Eichmann or Mengele.
Lydia, how do you think abortion reforms will happen? Shouldn't medical issues be discussed? How do you think the Texas Law came to the 20 week conclusion, by not discussing unpleasant realities.
CStanley is a doc, I'm a nurse, sorry if our discussion is too clinical and upsets you.
I have about 6 law school friends who I've been watching in non-stop Wendy Davis orgasm since last week. It's making the "hide this post" button on Facebook ever so handy. :) I also can't understand what all the fuss is about w/r/t the bill. While I think the first 2 restrictions sound perfectly reasonable (20 weeks and admitting privileges, the latter of which just tells you someone thinks the doc is competent) the surgical center standard may be a bit high, especially if we're not talking about late term abortions. Having some standards should be a requirement, definitely, but if you look at the TX Code under "ambulatory surgical centers" the regulations are quite extensive.
As for her appearance, she just looks exactly like a certain class of Texas woman - I see them all the time around here in Houston. When she was at Harvard, she obviously didn't want to go all "Legally Blond" and announce to her NE classmates "look at me! I'm stupid and from Texas" but now that she's home, she wants to look like the kind of woman she is. I'm certainly not impressed (as I said, I know her compatriots) but I see nothing wrong with it, nor does it seem absolute that she's had surgery.
During her filibuster, the Texas Tribune's live feed had something like 500,000 watchers. That tells you at least something about how little most Texans care about her or her cause, I think. Despite the MSMs attempts to make her into a hero...
Well Lydia it appears that a baby born out of rape or incest does not have a soul. So it is perfectly fine to kill it even if it could live outside the womb of the mother who was indeed the victim of a horrible crime.
The only way to ameliorate such a crime is to kill the innocent result of it because it could take much more than 20 weeks to figure out that rape or incest occurred.
The issue of a soul does not enter into the discussion of abortion.
At least for absolutists.
I should clarify so it's not misleading: i am a DVM.
Peggy Noonan talks about Wendy Davis here. What's interesting to me is that people in the media are making pro-life arguments. Not just pro-life arguments, but they're talking about infanticide.
This is new, I think, and I believe Dr. Gosnell’s murder conviction has a lot to do with it.
Of course, these conversations do not mean that pro-lifers are right when we say abortion is infanticide. Maybe we’re wrong! But I am glad that we are having these conversations, and I think they are important.
Is this a homicide?
I look at that photograph and I see why some people say it’s not. I understand why some view this photograph as a representation of a sub-human life. After all, this baby is so tiny. That is a tiny human being. The Supreme Court calls it "potential life." So perhaps that is not a baby; it is just a photograph of aborted tissue.
At the same time, I see why pro-lifers are upset and angry. We see a tiny human baby, and an awful, bloody mess. We see a life that has been cut short.
You can see why there is a fight over this issue! And I believe there are good people on both sides of the fight.
Yet what is notable, I think, is how these photographs are hidden from our people. We’ve been fighting over abortion for 40 years. And the media has been covering abortion for 40 years. Yet in all these media stories about the issue, we never see a photograph of an actual abortion. Why is that?
The media likes to decide what we will talk about. And the media has decided that it does not want us to have this conversation.
Abortion makes a pregnancy disappear. And it makes a baby disappear. And the media is a collaborator in this, hiding any evidence of a baby from us.
And this might not even be a homicide! Yet we can't even have a conversation about what this photo represents, because the media is so determined to hide our abortions from us. We are not supposed to think about these babies at all.
Even the word “abortion” is scrubbed from many conversations. The word “baby” is never used in articles about abortion. And the media refuses to use the words “pro-life.”
Pro-choice people only want to talk about abortion in the context of autonomy for women. Yet what kind of autonomy do you have with all this censorship going on? How can you be an autonomous decider if factual information is hidden from you? It’s quite strange for fans of autonomy to be happy about a media that hides information from us.
Quite simply, if abortion is a right thing to do, why are we hiding them?
500,000 viewers ( it's actually more because there were other streams) is a helluva lot of viewers for a state legislative session running up to midnight. I don't care how big the state is; that's a high number and it is wishful thinkong to suggest otherwise.
Also, the media didn't pick up the story until it was evident that so many were love streaming it. Social networks and civic engagement drove the live feeds.
Love streaming. Ha, it's like a Parliament song.
CStanley, not ALL abortion clinics need to be surgical centers as is required in the Texas Law.
You have no problem with that? You have no problem with unsterile equipment being shoved up a vagina during the practice?
Also, the media didn't pick up the story until it was evident that so many were love streaming it
BWA HA HA!
Sure.
That's why NBC was basically licking her dry during their coverage...
Damikesc,
I was watching the stream in real time beginning at 11 central. NBC didn't pick it up until mid evening . And even then, there wasn't a big deal about it until the aftermath of the dramatic finish. It was said finish that got state senators on the air the next evening.
But let me guess. You really did your best to see if what you said was true before you wrote it, didn't you.
You have no problem with that? You have no problem with unsterile equipment being shoved up a vagina during the practice?
We should really define terms. I assume that a nonsurgical abortion means use of an abortifacient like RU486. Anything else and I would say that people who are genuinely concerned about women's health and safety would make sure that it happens in a facility up to standards for an ambulatory surgical center.
If you wish to ignore their reportage, then I lack the desire to educate you at all. I will allow you to remain a lying moron.
Stanley, Davis opposed a bill that did that.
To be fair there was a lot of news that day. The VRA thing had just happened and the SSM verdicts were coming down and then the stupid obsession with the Patriots tight end was beginning and oh , yeah, wall to wall coverage of all things Zimmerman.
The dramatic finish at the Texas capital however , and the enormous social media buzz, and the huge gathering of citizens, all led to intensive coverage by the next day. Of course, by the end of next week all discussion of it on the news will be over.
Inga said...
CStanley is a doc, I'm a nurse,
No you're not.
Jay, you don't know me, nor do I know you. For you to pronounce things about me that you do not know about me, is simply idiotic, but hey it's YOU.
Really how dare you?
I should do a "Jay" imitation here: IDIOT.
Ah yes, Jay is the commenter who told Traditional Guy, who has been an attorney for more years than Jay has been alive, that he wasn't an attorney. Jay seems to think he knows things..... He knows nothing.
Dont insinuate your idiot comments into discussions about women's issues you moron. Nor legal issues.
I can see why the media likes her.She is better looking than the creepy-assed Gosnell.She's still a barbarian.
Don't worry about Jay.
Ah Harrowgate, at least WE don't cyber bully anyone! Not even Edutcher.
@Inga-
I didn't find stats on individual clinics but it appears that only about 11% of the abortions done in TX in the most recent year for which they have data were done with RU486. It would be hard to believe there were clinics then that were not doing surgical abortions.
Given that, if there are no existing clinics that perform nonsurgical abortions, then why shouldn't all of the facilities meet the same standards as any other surgical facility?
Inga said...
Ah yes, Jay is the commenter who told Traditional Guy, who has been an attorney for more years than Jay has been alive, that he wasn't an attorney
yes, because he isn't.
And you pretending he is represents more proof he is not.
Inga said...
Jay, you don't know me, nor do I know you
I know you're not a nurse and that you've posted here under different names and were outed for all of this.
A real nurse would not posit a scenario (one where a 12 year old gets pregnant, doesn't know it, and shows up in a delivery room at 9 months) representing 0.0000000000001% of all pregnancies as an argument against banning abortions after 20 weeks.
harrogate said...
Don't worry about Jay.
Hi dum-dum, was that your attempt at providing evidence that Republicans "broke all sorts of rules" during this filibuster? Or do you acknowledge that was just typical of the silly shit you say, just to say it?
Wow, double down on dumb, whatever, not worth my time or energy.
Inga: How do you think the Texas Law came to the 20 week conclusion, by not discussing unpleasant realities.
Hypocrit, you came up with 18 weeks.
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