"In the Nixon White House, we heard the president of the United States on tape saying 'Use the IRS to get back on our enemies."The link goes to Politico, which doesn't close the quotation marks around "Use the IRS to get back on our enemies," and doesn't link to specific Nixon quotes found on the Watergate tapes. It's strange to put quotes around that if it's not a quote. Here's the Wikipedia article "Nixon's Enemies List," which doesn't quote any Nixon remarks. It does have the truly shocking John Dean memo that asks "how we can use the available federal machinery to screw our political enemies." Politico needs to close the quotation marks and link to the quote or take away the quotes and add some material about how Nixon never said that and perhaps Bernstein — the wheeled-out old authority on Watergate — meant to say John Dean when he said Nixon.
Now, as to we have any evidence that Obama would want the IRS used for retribution, Obama once joked about using the machinery of the IRS against his enemies:
At his Arizona State University commencement speech [in May 2009], Mr. Obama noted that ASU had refused to grant him an honorary degree, citing his lack of experience, and the controversy this had caused. He then demonstrated ASU's point by remarking, "I really thought this was much ado about nothing, but I do think we all learned an important lesson. I learned never again to pick another team over the Sun Devils in my NCAA brackets. . . . President [Michael] Crowe and the Board of Regents will soon learn all about being audited by the IRS."
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101 comments:
Absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence.
Follow the money. Dig deeper.
Obama's people went to court and had two sets of opponents' divorce records unsealed. He definitely seems like a politician who is happy to use government machinery to screw a political enemy.
"Comments" from Dear Leader are often easily viewed as "commands" down the line.
I'm always getting John Dean and Richard Nixon mixed up.
If he had nothing to do with it, then he should come down hard on the IRS for doing this. Instead, we have yet to even have him really make a comment about it.
Was Bernstein sober?
Barack Obama made sure Chrysler bond holders had the right to their money stripped away in bankruptcy court, in order to get that money to his political allies. Obama then took to the tv cameras to impugn the motives of the bond holders.
Obama definitely seems like the kind of guy who would use the machinery of government to screw his political enemies.
Of course Bernstein says it's not Watergate. Because Watergate is the only thing he's got in his life. At least Woodward has a string of decent books to his credit.
Jesus.
It's not Watergate. No--it's worse.
Watergate was Nixon being too stubborn and too loyal.
This is Barry showing the world how evil and vindictive he really is.
'We know a lot about President Obama'
Yeah, and nothing about his political career indicates he would not use the IRS to do something like this.
That Obama would joke about using the IRS doesn't mean he wouldn't do it. But it does mean that he fails to recognize that it isn't funny.
This is starting to look like WalkerGate. Need a "Obama is like Walker" tag?
Just kidding Althouse. Just kidding.
The quote is technically correct; Bernstein is saying someone said something, so it gets a single quote around it. Now, whether Bernstein is -accurately- quoting someone is a different issue, and if he misquoted/made up a quote, that would be a reason to have not used the quote in the story to begin with.
An abuser of power only needs to mention the powers of the IRS and hint at directing its use to create an new Spanish Inquisition under the IRS agents.
The IRS has always operated by using horrible injustices at a whim to TERRORIZE taxpayers. That is its mission.
Obama's justice department read the private emails of his DNI and then used information contained therein to force Petraeus to resign.
Obama definitely seems like the kind of guy who would use the machinery of government to screw his political foes.
And by the way--what is this "a lot" we know about Obama?
Do we know anywhere near as much about him as we've known about any other president?
We even know what kind of grades Algore and John F. Kerry (vietnam vet!) got. We know that W. was a decent poker player and looked cute in a cheerleader skirt.
What do we know about Barry?
Expecting the pro-democrat hack media to be fair, accurate and honest-- is funny.
Once might be an aberration. Twice is indication of something systemic.
-Benghazi
-IRS
-Illegal GM bailout
-Camp Bastion
-Philly Black Panther charges dropped
-Department of Energy Green loans
-Sec. of HHS calling healthcare execs to "donate" funds to promote Obamacare
-DHS buying armored vehicles (MRAP) for distributions across U
-Massive DHS purchases of ammo equivalent to 30 years of Iraq and Afgan wars.
-Ramming through massive legislation without sufficient review via regular order in Congress
and the list goes on.
I could see someone who supported Obama doing this. Not Obama, though. Supporting Obama is almost a religion. Yes, I get the "Organizing for America" emails.
"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?"
Hey, No Labels, people, No Labels.
Renee said...
I could see someone who supported Obama doing this. Not Obama, though. Supporting Obama is almost a religion. Yes, I get the "Organizing for America" emails. "
Why not Obama? Because he'd never do anything like that, or because he doesn't want a paper trail?
Will someone get that damn Pied Piper from playing his damn flute?
Forty years later, Bernstein is irrelevant. He only knew what his FBI informant told him. Butterfield was more important to Watergate.
He does display his bias and ignorance grandly, however.
garage mahal said...
This is starting to look like WalkerGate. Need a "Obama is like Walker" tag?
Just kidding Althouse. Just kidding. "
When is that indictment coming, again?
There should be a collection of things like this; wasn't there another "Obama would be so disappointed in us" article during the election about the cancer wife ad?
Republican in Power = Skeptical Press.
Democrat in Power = Compliant Press.
It's just that simple.
Oh, and state employees abuse access to information to investigate private citizens that question the president (Joe the Plumber)
@CEO-MMP
John Kerry was a Vietnam Vet? He probably should have made a big deal about that when he ran for president.
Here's a quote "...after a long train of abuses and usurpations..."
"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce."
-- Karl Marx
“We know a lot about President Obama, and I think the idea that he would want the IRS used for retribution....
Is Carl Berstein one of the “reporters who matter?”
RE: YoungHegelian:
"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?"
I like it better with "turbulent."
Yeah, so anyway. We do know a lot about Obama, and the IRS being used for retribution sounds exactly like the kind of thing he would want, if not the kind of thing he'd necessarily command in so many words.
Obama doesn't have to. That's why. His people will do it for him, on his behalf.
Re: bpm4532:
Oh, and state employees abuse access to information to investigate private citizens that question the president (Joe the Plumber)
Will no one rid me of this turbulent plumber?
His people would also refrain from doing stuff like this, if that's what he made clear he wanted.
The only reason there was a Watergate investigation is because the FCC denied Katherine Graham and license for a TV station and she wanted to get back at Nixon.
Bernstein was nothing but a hired gun assigned to dig up some dirt. Luckily for him, Liddy and the others gave him a little more than he expected.
bpm4532 said...
"Comments" from Dear Leader are often easily viewed as "commands" down the line.
In all the Nazi archives, there's no directive from (Godwin Alert) with his signature saying, "Kill da Joos".
Sending the IRS is the DC version of a visit from Solly and da boyz.
"we have no evidence of any such thing."
other than the marching orders at ASU and the fact that they were carried out. other than that, nothing.
The White House knew about complaints from these various groups back in 2011. You would think someone would investigate if the complaints were true, since such a truth would be evidence of massive corruption.
The fact that the White House did nothing about it means that they approved of the methods being taken.
Yes, a Chicago Machine politician would never use levers of power to destroy enemies.
Carl Bernstein? Wow, the dead rise from the grave and the spirits of the past haunt the House of Usher where toil the ink stained wretches in dimming light as thunder booms in the distance.
In 2001, before 9/11, Comedy Central had a satirical show poking fun at George W. Bush called "That's My Bush!" It was done by Tray Parker and Matt Stone (of "South Park" fame), and was more humorous than mean-spirited.
I'd like to see a similar treatment for Obama in his role as Nixon. We could call it "That's My Dick! Bigger, Longer and Uncut." Because if they could go with that kind of a dick joke for their "South Park" movie, it would be even funnier for Obama playing Dick Nixon.
I'm not sure why anyone thinks the fact that Obama didn't order it would be relevant. In fact it's much worse for the left if he didn't. If Obama ordered the retribution the circumstance is one guy overstepping the bounds of decency. In reality we have a government so thoroughly infused with left wing ideals they naturally believed it appropriate to target those acting contrary to those ideals.
WTF?! I typed in Trey Parker vice Tray, I'm sure of it!
Barack Obama used the Pigford funds to pay off his favored political groups. He definitely seems like the kind of guy who is willing to use the power of government to punish or enrich people according to their politics.
In this environment, just imagine all the way other democrat loyalists in government used their power to disadvantage the oppositions. So many little things never get caught and they only lead to bigger abuses.
e.g. I'll tear down that Romney sign in my neighbor's yard in the middle of the night. No one will ever now. (but it's still a punishable crime).
It's not Watergate until I say they say Watergate.
Obama's justice department raided the offices of the non-union Gibson guitars due to a very questionable claim about using Indian rosewood.
Obama definitely seems like the kind of guy who would use the power of government to hurt the livelihood of his political opponents.
"
Why not Obama? Because he'd never do anything like that, or because he doesn't want a paper trail? "
"The Top" of the Obama administration is named Jarret. Obama is in charge of reading the teleprompter.
I don't think he wants to know this stuff. Hillary fired the White House travel office staff to put her own people in there. Obama is the White House travel office.
Do we know a lot about President Obama? Why does Bernstein think we do? Does Bernstein think he knows a lot about President Obama? What a strange and presumptuous idea.
Despite mashing them together, Bernstein's assertion of knowledge is a very different kind of argument than the pettifoggery of "we have no evidence of any such thing."
What Bernstein thinks we know -- an accepted wisdom -- is in some ways the opposite of lack of evidence. The former is an argument from authority. The latter is an argument from ignorance.
Bernstein should cast his mind back. Why, if knowing is sufficient, did he spend so much energy tracking down evidence?
In April 2012, VanderSloot, who served as the national co-chair of Mitt Romney’s presidential finance committee, was one of eight Romney backers to be defamed as ”wealthy individuals with less-than-reputable records” in a post on the Obama campaign’s website. The post, entitled “Behind the curtain: a brief history of Romney’s donors,” singled out VanderSloot for being a ”litigious, combative and a bitter foe of the gay rights movement.”
Two months later, the IRS informed VanderSloot he and his wife were going to be audited, Strassel reported. Two weeks after that, VanderSloot was notified by the Labor Department that it was going to “audit workers he employs on his Idaho-based cattle ranch under the federal visa program for temporary agriculture workers,” reported Strassel.
just random chance...
Obama's justice department has systemically not followed up on civil rights violations against white complainants.
Absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence.
Very clever, Madison Mann. Is that your own?
I'm waiting for someone to say, well it's just a problem with regional office in Ohio. The problem with that is, the Cincinnati office is a major facility.
Henry said...
Do we know a lot about President Obama? Why does Bernstein think we do? Does Bernstein think he knows a lot about President Obama? What a strange and presumptuous idea.
We know he's a big disciple of Uncle Saul. Wasn't the IRS a community that could be organized?
The lines, "Get in their faces. Punch back twice as hard", ring any bells?
and the list goes on.
Just off the top of my head, you forgot Pigford.
Some tried the 'Doug Schulman was appointed by Bush' gambit. Forgetting that a lot of Republicans were swayed by the dark side of the force in 2008 and Bush also nominated a fair amount of Democrats to government positions.
"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?".
She quit on her own and Kerry took her place. Though he's a much bigger target. I don't know how well he dodges sniper fire.
Day one of this "not a scandal" the icon says that based on what we know about Saint Barry he wouldn't do it. Now that is what I call journalism.
Another legend from the renowned Washington Post.
“’He has, through his subordinated and agents, endeavored…to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigation to be initiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner,’ — Section 1, Article 2, the impeachment articles of Richard Nixon.
Has Bernstein listened to all of the Obama Oval Office recordings, or just some?
"Guilty as sin. Free as a bird" And sitting in the Oval Office, no less.
You have to believe that this was a very busy weekend for the administration, working to make sure everyone has their story straight.
The longer it goes without Obama condemning this IRS activity, the greater the likelihood will be that he had some knowledge that it was happening and that he had knowledge that other departments (labor, education, HHS, treasury) had similar improper activities.
What is it about aging liberals such as Bernstein that turns their brains to mush?
if he misquoted/made up a quote, that would be a reason to have not used the quote in the story to begin with.
or include the clarifying quote in the story.
You have to believe that this was a very busy weekend for the administration, working to make sure everyone has their story straight.
Saint Barry was busy on the golf course.
Shanna: In general for interviews, I've always assumed if someone mangles statistics/a quote like that, it was because we're speaking off the cuff, so the charitable thing is not to include an obvious mis-speak. However, it looks like Politico thought that A) He was right and B) There was news value in it.
Shoddy judgment if it turns out not to be an exact quote (which it probably is not.)
It's still early in the public review of this incident. So, none of us really know what the President knew, when he knew, and his part, if any, in the actions taking place.
However, I see no reason for the White House to be idle on this. Jay Carney should be announcing that several IRS employees have been sent home, with or without pay, pending the Congressional investigation or some internal Administration investigation. This should be followed up in the coming week with firings and resignations.
Before you set out to regulate businesses, you must first keep a clean establishment yourself. If "mistakes were made", people should lose their jobs for mistakes like this.
Just off the top of my head, you forgot Pigford.
Don't forget the Bush era audits of the NAACP and Greenpeace. And the church in Pasadena that spoke out against the Iraq war. And the FBI surveillance of Quakers and other peace groups.
And the FBI surveillance of OWS under Obama. And the denial of tax exempt status of Emerge America under Obama.
Wait, those aren't right groups. NEVER MIND.
Obama's people went to court and had two sets of opponents' divorce records unsealed.
This is simply a lie, unless you are contending that the Chicago Tribune and WLS TV in Chicago are "Obama's people".
Obama needs to put a sign on his desk that reads "The Buck Don't Ever Get Here."
There are not enough words in the English language to describe the depths of my loathing for Obama and everything he stands for..
This seems like a good place for an Iowahawk quote:
"Journalism is about covering important stories. With a pillow, until they stop moving."
Neo has also picked up the QUOTE theme: Joe Klein: the IRS targeted conservative groups… …and oh, if only Obama knew!
[NOTE: If you want to refresh your memory on the "if only Stalin knew" reference, see this.]
And the back of the sign could say "And if it ever does, well then Booosh did it too!"
Because what the left said was wrong, is not wrong when they do it again later.
I'm not sure why anyone thinks the fact that Obama didn't order it would be relevant. In fact it's much worse for the left if he didn't.
I actually do question whether he gave the orders. This is almost the opposite of "A Few Good Men", where the Marines probably couldn't shit, and definitely couldn't pull a Code Red w/o the orders of their officers, and notably their commander (Jack Nicholson - in the classic scene where he tells Tom Cruise that he can't handle the truth).
I think that President Obama looks more and more like a figurehead President. He enjoys the perks, like his own wide bodied jets, helicopters, a record number of days playing golf, the big house, a private retreat, etc., and will do the meet and greet, but is it. Not the behind-the-scenes of an Eisenhower, but rather, allowing the political operatives who got him elected and reelected free rein to run the country as they see fit. I think that this was most obvious first term when the departments were seemingly divided up by Democratic Party constituency.
Sure, there could be some sort of implication thing going on, with the President thinking out loud that someone not being around might be nice, and, voila, they disappear, thanks to zealous underlings. But, President Obama seems almost totally disinterested in governing. That is for underlings to do. His job, as I think he sees it, is to raise the money, appear Presidential, stay out of the way, and to enjoy the perks.
His job, as I think he sees it, is to raise the money, appear Presidential, stay out of the way, and to enjoy the perks.
He's batting 2 for 4 so far.
This is simply a lie, unless you are contending that the Chicago Tribune and WLS TV in Chicago are "Obama's people".
That's a good one! Axelrod only worked for the Trib for eight years. Yeah I know it was sarcasm.
One thing we know about Obama is that he is not terribly bright (legal background notwithstanding). It was amazingly stupid to joke about using the IRS precisely because this sort of thing might happen. Smart Presidents don't say such obviously stupid things (toss in "I won" with that as well; reckon he's telling McConnell and Boehner that now?).
But I will grant there can be a fine line between a "safe" POTUS joke and a reckless one. We didn't end up bombing the Soviet Union. Similarly, Obama's would have been safe if there never was an IRS scandal. But there is. Obama should have learned from Reagan's mistake. It's not like he wasn't an adult at the time.
Someone should write a handbook for incoming Presidents detailing the stupid mistakes of their predecessors (such as Lincoln's use of the word "blockade"). Required reading between election and inauguration. It's a difficult enough job as it is.
Freder Frederson said...
Obama's people went to court and had two sets of opponents' divorce records unsealed.
This is simply a lie, unless you are contending that the Chicago Tribune and WLS TV in Chicago are "Obama's people".
Actually, it's more like the other way around, although it's technically a form of symbiosis.
In any case, Axelrod was behind it.
Bruce Hayden said...
I think that President Obama looks more and more like a figurehead President. He enjoys the perks, like his own wide bodied jets, helicopters, a record number of days playing golf, the big house, a private retreat, etc., and will do the meet and greet, but is it. Not the behind-the-scenes of an Eisenhower, but rather, allowing the political operatives who got him elected and reelected free rein to run the country as they see fit.
If so, and it's a case of him or Dr Evil, he better be watching his back. There's damned little room left on the troika and a lot left under the bus.
"We know a lot about President Obama...
More was known about Nixon than Obama... I would stipulate.
Obama, the Democrats, and Ohio Democrats in particular have fostered an environment where such unethical and illegal activites are smiled upon. Remember the dirt digging of Joe the Plumber authorized by Helen E. Jones-Kelley, head of Ohio's Department of Jobs and Family Services?
It's hard to institute fascism using morally and ethically acceptable means.
President-elect Saint Barry was forced to apologize to Nancy Reagan after he joked about her seances. It was actually Hillary who was channeling Eleanor.
Did he apologize for the Special Olympics bowling joke on Jay Leno, I forget?
Presidents should limit their impromptu joke making.
Don't believe that "low level staff" meme.
Lois Lerner is at level 3 in the IRS and is an SES, she has 900 staff working for her:
http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/About-IRS-Exempt-Organizations
@Lem/
Boy are you right! But don't be so tentative--"I would stipulate." We Know a lot!!!??? We know ALMOST NOTHING about the man. NOTHING. If EVER there was a blank-slate of a man, if EVER there was a candidate for the label of "Manchurian Candidate" in terms of a background that is both obscure and proven to be artificial in so many ways (to include his own admissions about "composite" characters in the narrative of his life in his memoirs): if EVER there was a man more proven to be a congenital liar, I don't know who it would be. Nixon was an open book compared to Obama..
ThomasD said...
Obama needs to put a sign on his desk that reads "The Buck Don't Ever Get Here."
Thread winner!
Journalistic Bayesianism-- where your priors double as your conclusions.
The Watergate guys are still useful.
A few months ago Woodward was used to great effect, as theater, to appear to be a tough journalist taking Obama administration to task for the sequester debacle. He only went so far in his criticism, expressed some frustration, and then essentially absolved Obama of any responsibility. The world can rest easy.
Bernstein is doing the same for the IRS scandal. You see, he's also a tough journalist and you can trust that he's left no stone unturned. Obama is pure as the driven snow, and Bernstein just confirmed it.
Bernstein reminds me of the London museum where it's always 1940. With him it's always Nixon-Evil Republicans-Watergate 1973.
Several years back Obama joked about sending the IRS to do audits of people who got in his way. Guess he wasn't joking.
Nope. No scandal. We have Carl Bernsteins word on it and that' good enough for me.
Frank J Flemming says:
"I think this IRS episode demonstrates that the left should focus on cleaning out all its extremist scum before worrying about the right."
“The buck never got here.” comes from an old Rush Limbaugh skit. He imitated Bill Clinton’s voice saying that.
Let me clarify - I don't think that all of the departments and agencies are running amok, due to lack of oversight, but, rather, that some of the smaller, maybe less important ones, were handed over to extremists representing certain identifiable Democratic Party constituencies. And, the biggest, most important ones are being essentially run out of the West Wing by Obama's closest minions. I really do believe now that Hillary! was mostly out of the loop throughout her stint as Secretary of State, with most of the major decisions being made in the White House, but likely not by Obama himself. I think that she agreed to the deal, of being Secretary in name only, in order to burnish her resume for her next run for the Presidency. Her problem here is that when things blow up, as they did with Benghazi, she is left without much cover. Pointing out that she didn't get critical messages sent directly to her, and wasn't involved in the decision making, as being too low down, doesn't cut it. They were her people, and they died as a result of decisions and actions taken in her name, or at least on her watch.
BTW - AG Holder has tried the same sort of "below my pay grade" argument with all the Fast and Furious memos that were sent to him along the way. He seems, so far, to have weathered this better than Hillary!, but maybe only because he used that excuse first. And, only one or two Americans died as a result, and they were low level law enforcement officers, and so were presumably expendable, unlike a politically appointed ambassador.
The thing is, is that Obama really doesn't seem to spend much time or energy governing. He skipped over half his PDB briefings the first three or four years of his Presidency. He often has only one or two official functions scheduled a day, and seems to spend almost as much time playing golf and basketball as he does actually running the government. Contrast this with many of his predecessors who were typically booked solid from 8-5 or so seven days a week. Many days Obama doesn't have more than an hour or two of official business booked, and even then, it often isn't until late morning.
So, back to the night of 9/11/12 - from all that we have heard so far, he seemed almost supremely indifferent. His priority was the fund raising trip the next day, and not the action happening in Libya that night.
Carl B is a fool and a tool. He's happy with that.
Skip the quote. Mr. Obama cannot be trusted. Period. Poor America.
Skip the quote. Mr. Obama cannot be trusted. Period. Poor America.
Sure, why would an Alinsky-ite statist who gets his dreams from his commie dad and who was mentored at an impressionable age by his commie uncle, and who was Rev. Wright's altar boy for howmany? years, and who joined the socialist New Party, and who then tells you to have no fear of Big Brother, do anything bad like that? I mean, if you can't trust someone who comes out of a philosophy based on legalized looting, who can you trust?
Sure, why would an Alinsky-ite statist who gets his dreams from his commie dad and who was mentored at an impressionable age by his commie uncle, and who was Rev. Wright's altar boy for howmany? years, and who joined the socialist New Party, and who then tells you to have no fear of Big Brother, do anything bad like that? I mean, if you can't trust someone who comes out of a philosophy based on legalized looting, who can you trust?
Using the IRS for political retribution was one of the charges against Nixon. I bet Carl knows that.
Future bestseller and movie:
"All the President's Journalists."
This was in the news over a year ago, the tea party publicly complained as did some conservative websites. I have yet to hear any democrat call the administration out on Benghazi or the IRS. I can not recall any criticism by any democrat on fast and furious either. In my mind they are not just enablers but accomplices.
Henry II once casually said "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" and then Thomas Beckett was slain by four of Henry's knights.
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