Althouse: "The women were chained in the basement during the first years of their captivity..."

May 9, 2013

"The women were chained in the basement during the first years of their captivity..."

"... but were eventually allowed to live unchained upstairs, behind secured doors."

ADDED: "In the note found in [Ariel] Castro’s Seymour Avenue home in Cleveland after his arrest, the former school-bus driver scoffed at the stupidity of his captives for getting into his car on the days they vanished...."

89 comments:

rhhardin said...: Imus, whose wife is a health shrew, thought that they're probably vitamin-d deprived.; 5/9/13, 6:41 AM
Scott said...: Ariel Castro from Cleveland, huh. Probably a registered Democrat.

(Let the partisan sniping begin.); 5/9/13, 6:51 AM
Nomennovum said...: This Castro character is a twisted fucker. That I get. I want to understand better the psychological makeup of these young women, though. How do you not find a way to escape from a flimsy house for ten years, if you are not always chained? Was it only this one time that they were left unsupervised? Hard to believe.; 5/9/13, 6:52 AM
Anonymous said...: Momma was right again girls, "Don't get into cars with strange men"; 5/9/13, 6:56 AM
Nomennovum said...: I think the key reason for the escape was a mother's concern for her child. She didn't want her little girl to become a victim. The girl was probably getting old enough to attract Castro's attention. Note that the non-mothers didn't seem to make the same escape attempt.; 5/9/13, 6:57 AM
Anonymous said...: Althouse, that article is internally inconsistent

secured doors, yet when the police came up the stairs, both women opened their doors and came out of their rooms.

The eyes belonged to Knight, who fled the room and leapt into the arms of one of the officers and repeatedly said "you saved me." The officer choked back tears, the source said, and soon DeJesus entered the hall from another room.; 5/9/13, 7:03 AM
KCFleming said...: He'll skate if he blames a YouTube video.; 5/9/13, 7:04 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: How do you know the house was flimsy? Sounds like they were kept locked in the upstairs.; 5/9/13, 7:04 AM
TerriW said...: "Don't get into cars with strange men"

The worst part is (for DeJesus' situation, at least) you won't (and shouldn't!) tell your kid "Don't get into cars with your best friend's dad." This situation is so horrible all around.; 5/9/13, 7:05 AM
Nomennovum said...: The house was flimsy because it is a typical el cheapo American lower class hovel. It has glass windows. Crappy aluminum storm doors. Can't you figure a way out of your own house if all your doors are locked and you don't have the key???; 5/9/13, 7:08 AM
Nomennovum said...: You get out the same way Amanda Berry eventually did ... but years earlier.; 5/9/13, 7:11 AM
Kelly said...: Why didn't they try to escape? It's called psychological torture. He use to leave a door unlocked then pretend to leave. When one of them took a chance and tried to escape he would jump out and beat them.; 5/9/13, 7:12 AM
FedkaTheConvict said...: Nomennovum, are you an ass or do you just play one on Althouse. Haven't you heard of the YEARS of physical and psychological torture that the women endured?; 5/9/13, 7:17 AM
FedkaTheConvict said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/9/13, 7:17 AM
FedkaTheConvict said...: Why didn't Elizabeth Smart escape when she was out in the public nearly every day?; 5/9/13, 7:18 AM
Roger J. said...: This story is horrific. I never fail to be devastated by human depravity. As for the perp--chain in down in a room, give his victims razor blades and spend as much time with him as they need to take.; 5/9/13, 7:19 AM
traditionalguy said...: Another good reason to teach self defense and give weapons training to the "children" who must live among the depraved.; 5/9/13, 7:20 AM
Nomennovum said...: Nomennovum, are you an ass or do you just play one on Althouse. Haven't you heard of the YEARS of physical and psychological torture that the women endured?

Yet one of them, did eventually, escape, dickwad. Why?

Did you even bother to read my initial comments, or are you just playing the outrage card here on Althouse?; 5/9/13, 7:26 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: I would assume that Mr. Dungeon Creeper fortified the prison part of his house.; 5/9/13, 7:29 AM
Nomennovum said...: I like commas, apparently.; 5/9/13, 7:35 AM
edutcher said...: Sounds like the reason Heydrich rode in an open, unarmored car and always took the same route - he figured "his Czechs" were cowed.

This time payback really will be a bitch.

And what Sarge said.; 5/9/13, 7:36 AM
madAsHell said...: former school-bus driver

So, he was on the dole??; 5/9/13, 7:37 AM
Unknown said...: In out school district we are finally getting training about how to deal with shooters in a school that emphasizes being pro-active. Hitting back, trying to escape, distracting, communicating and other things that are designed to take the initiative away from the criminal.
Children need the same training. We don't have to be passive victims. We can fight back. Don't wait for permission, do what you have to do to escape.
We could all use some training in self-defense. Starting with thinking for ourselves and not toeing the party line.; 5/9/13, 8:00 AM
Shanna said...: Why didn't they try to escape? It's called psychological torture. He use to leave a door unlocked then pretend to leave. When one of them took a chance and tried to escape he would jump out and beat them.

That's so awful. And they were chained for years before that.; 5/9/13, 8:06 AM
acm said...: Yes, one of them did escape...when two adult men (who probably weren't suffering from malnourishment and other assorted problems) ripped the damn door off!

Idiot.; 5/9/13, 8:18 AM
Darrell said...: Authorities NOT charging the other two brothers?

Are they fuckig crazy? Witnesses said that there were three men leading the girls around naked on leashes in the yard. Don't the police/DAs read the Daily Mail?; 5/9/13, 8:20 AM
test said...: The Drill SGT said...
Momma was right again girls, "Don't get into cars with strange men"

Not all were strange. One girl was best friends with his daughter.; 5/9/13, 8:25 AM
test said...: Nomennovum said...
The house was flimsy because it is a typical el cheapo American lower class hovel. It has glass windows. Crappy aluminum storm doors. Can't you figure a way out of your own house if all your doors are locked and you don't have the key???

It seems he installed strong interior doors, plus they were chained. I wonder about this too but let's not pretend there were not significant obstacles to overcome.

I'm wondering if he got lazy and left off the chains because the house was under foreclosure and he knew it was all coming to an end, hence the "suicide" note.; 5/9/13, 8:29 AM
test said...: Darrell said...
Authorities NOT charging the other two brothers?

Are they fuckig crazy? Witnesses said that there were three men leading the girls around naked on leashes in the yard. Don't the police/DAs read the Daily Mail?

I'm not sure if this is honest or mocking early report inaccuracy. But the captives claimed they had only been outside twice, both times in disguise. Therefore the reports of naked women on leashes appear to be incorrect.; 5/9/13, 8:32 AM
Darrell said...: The whole family should get a good look by authorities for their part--if only silence--in keeping this nightmare going foreward. Contacts were made withi the ten years by many. I don't believe it's wise to take anyone at their word at this point.

Don't assume that Mr Castro didn't just go out for gasoline to burn the house down with the girls in it. Before his suicide (by other means), of course. He would have the balls to face the flames himself.; 5/9/13, 8:38 AM
Darrell said...: But the captives claimed they had only been outside twice, both times in disguise

Are you 100% positive that they wouldn't consider going out in the backyard naked as "going out?'

The brothers had all spent time there in the last ten years. Hold them. There are other charges related to other crimes (for example, theft by deception for floating bad checks, etc.) for each.; 5/9/13, 8:42 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: “I told them, ‘You really need to be looking at Ariel,’ ” given Castro’s abusive history, Colon said. He said authorities never followed up on his suggestion.

Its always the same in these gruesome stories.; 5/9/13, 8:42 AM
Darrell said...: It's going to take more than the few days it has already been to get the full story out of the girls. Don't assume you know everything at this point.; 5/9/13, 8:57 AM
Brian Brown said...: Have a daughter, relative or friend chained in a basement for 10 years despite multiple calls to police at the residence?

Thank a union.; 5/9/13, 9:04 AM
Nomennovum said...: Yes, one of them did escape...when two adult men (who probably weren't suffering from malnourishment and other assorted problems) ripped the damn door off! Idiot

Who's calling whom an idiot? Was this not an escape? The fact she needed to scream to get some help to accomplish this feat does not alter the fact that she did fucking escape.

My question, for you who are reading impaired, was what finally were the motivating factors? I put one forth: her child.; 5/9/13, 9:05 AM
test said...: Darrell said...
But the captives claimed they had only been outside twice, both times in disguise

Are you 100% positive that they wouldn't consider going out in the backyard naked as "going out?'

Neither I nor anyone else is 100% positive of anything. But it seems very strong evidence to me that the captives didn't name them. If the brothers were involved in any way you'd expect it to include rape. And if that were the case why would the captives name one but not all of the rapists? There's zero chance the legal system could prosecute with these facts.; 5/9/13, 9:06 AM
test said...: Darrell said...
It's going to take more than the few days it has already been to get the full story out of the girls. Don't assume you know everything at this point.

I don't assume I know everything, nor do I assume the police do. But the first question the police had to ask the former captives was "did anyone assist the homeowner in keeping you captive, know of your captivity, or sexually assault you?"

And all the captives must have said the brothers weren't involved or those brothers would have been charged.; 5/9/13, 9:10 AM
ooonaughtykitty said...: Did anyone else catch what was going on with that flag outside the Rapist's house?

Someone did...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7bTVigeqHs; 5/9/13, 9:18 AM
Darrell said...: From accounts so far, the other two brothers had been in the house in the last ten years. Same with the kids. What are the odds that no one saw anything (or more)? It doesn't mean that the girls saw the brothers or could swear that to cops. Do you think they had time to check the DNA from the dead babies (if they even recovered anything yet).

As far as that first day statement by a neighbor that they had seen naked girls on leashes in the yard, do you think that the cops even checked to see if such a report had been made? Do you think it might be something that would be covered up, if it ever existed? Why would neighbors make such a claim when it doesn't put them in a good light for not following up/keeping closer watch on the house?; 5/9/13, 9:18 AM
test said...: Darrell said...
From accounts so far, the other two brothers had been in the house in the last ten years. Same with the kids. What are the odds that no one saw anything (or more)?

As were a couple of musicians from his latin salsa band. If the captives were well hidden enough not to draw attention from those guests then presence in home is not sufficient to conclude they knew anything. Unless you think the musicians were complicit also. It's also not clear how many times the brothers and son were in the house.

As far as that first day statement by a neighbor that they had seen naked girls on leashes in the yard, do you think that the cops even checked to see if such a report had been made?

The cops did check and deny such a call was made. That could have been an error as a stand-alone data point. But when matched with the statements of the former captives it becomes much stronger evidence.

Do you think it might be something that would be covered up, if it ever existed?

No. The former captives are going to be among the most interviewed people of 2013. If they claimed that event ocurred there is zero chance the police could cover it up.

Why would neighbors make such a claim when it doesn't put them in a good light for not following up/keeping closer watch on the house?

Confusion? Embellishment? Trying to get your 15 minutes? Caught up in a moment of sensationalism? Trying to make cops look bad because they put your nephew in jail, or beat the shit out of your cousin, or because they internalized the 60s radical hatred of cops as enforcers of oppression? It could be any of 50 reasons, all of which are vastly more probable than that the captives are lying about the circumstances after identifying the homeowner.; 5/9/13, 9:36 AM
acm said...: I'm calling you an idiot for asserting that the house was flimsy, and that the women didn't try to escape earlier, before the child was born or in the six years since. Clearly, it wasn't flimsy if it took two healthy men to free Amanda, and it's beyond asinine to assume that they were able to escape before this attempt. On this attempt, Amanda happened to be heard by Angel Cordero and Charles Ramsey, who could free her and were inclined to. On other attempts, she was heard by neighbors who dismissed her cries as something else (a child throwing a tantrum, maybe?) or chose to call police instead. It seems much more likely to me that they were simply lucky this time than to assume that they were unmotivated before.; 5/9/13, 9:39 AM
Shanna said...: That flag thing is insane.; 5/9/13, 10:13 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Can't you figure a way out of your own house if all your doors are locked and you don't have the key???

I thought this too. Physically it might not be that difficult to escape. Break a window. Climb out.

Mentally, however, it might be another issue. Remember these girls were kidnapped and abused from a very early age. Abused physically and mentally I think the mental torture and conditioning wins out over the physical reality of being able to break out.

It is easy to think that or say that you or we might be able to overcome such horrible conditions, because we haven't been put into those situations. The reality is something else. I don't blame the women for their captivity or apparent lack of escape attempts. That is what Castro did to justify his actions.

I do think that the presence of a child that might soon attract the attention of their captor, might have been the catalyst to spur the mother onto a greater attempt to escape. A mother trying to save her child.; 5/9/13, 10:48 AM
William said...: This is a god awful story on every level. I don't want to read about it, but I keep doing it. The guy was depraved beyond human measure, but he was apparently able to function normally as a school bus driver. It's scary to think how depraved a human being can be and still appear normal.. The women were brutalized and terrorized to such an extent that they probably went numb. It's scary to think how much abuse and terror a human organism can absorb and still function. The cops did a bad job. Even the neighbor who helped the girl escape has a past history of domestic abuse. There's nothing about this story that makes you feel good about the human condition.; 5/9/13, 11:20 AM
Shanna said...: Physically it might not be that difficult to escape. Break a window. Climb out.

It's early, so I'm not sure what all methods were used to keep them contained, but it sounds like they were chained for at least some portion of time. That was probably when they would have been before they had a chance to get beaten down, physically and mentally.; 5/9/13, 11:28 AM
Methadras said...: This is a story of unbelievable proportions. To find one person missing for a decade alive and then to find three and all living under the same roof? There isn't a description for that. Now it's time to sharpen the long knives for what these sub-human animals did.; 5/9/13, 11:48 AM
Anonymous said...: That flag thing is insane.

The flag thing has been hinted at twice with no explanation, which I find annoying, though the matter is straightforward enough.

Castro had flown a Puerto Rican flag outside his front door for years. After the horror was discovered, someone, presumably an official, draped an American flag over the Puerto Rican one, presumably for PC reasons.; 5/9/13, 12:48 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Physically it might not be that difficult to escape. Break a window. Climb out.

As if the horror of their captivity was not bad enough... lets find what the victims could have done and didn't do so as to minimize what?; 5/9/13, 12:51 PM
Rabel said...: It's two flags side by side. You can see that in google earth (go down the street and look back) as well as some of the videos.; 5/9/13, 1:26 PM
Crunchy Frog said...: To add to the creepiness, Castro was in attendance at the candlelight vigils, passed out fliers, and consoled the mothers of his victims. That takes sociopathy to a whole new and disturbing level.

How would you feel about getting a hug from the guy who kidnapped and raped your daughter?; 5/9/13, 1:35 PM
Nomennovum said...: lets find what the victims could have done and didn't do so as to minimize what?

To minimize nothing. Rather, to understand human nature so that we -- and maybe those close to us -- can profit from that knowledge. It's simple really. When you know what others might do to you to control you, that lnowledge becomes one weapon that you can take from them. What did Castro do to these women to psychologically control them? What was it, ultimately, that failed Castro and allowed the one victim and her child to escape? It wasn't simply the seredipitous presence of one entertaining and brave black man. How can we understand the motivations of the young women so we can counsel our daughters and raise them to know how to avoid similar pitfalls?

It's all well and good to blame Castro. He is, after all fully to blame, but why was he able to succeed in these three cases?

I get bored and frustrated by the unwillingness to question the psychology of the victims. To be victimized in such cases, to be held prisoner in a single family home in the middle of a major American city is very very unsual. Putting aside the fact that there is a monster involved, ignoring the inaction (again) of the police, what can you and your loved ones do to avoid fates like these? Aren't any of you interested in these questions? Why is it so awful for me to supoose the victim might -- just might -- have acted stupdily and made a series of bad decisions?; 5/9/13, 1:49 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Rather, to understand human nature so that we -- and maybe those close to us -- can profit from that knowledge. It's simple really. When you know what others might do to you to control you, that lnowledge becomes one weapon that you can take from them.

As opposed to the much derided "gun culture".

Would it be fare to say that had these young women/girls grown up exposed to that culture, the likelihood of a prolonged captivity would have been lessened?

There is no way knowing that for certain, but I'm willing to speculate that, for the purposes of a hypothetical we could "learn" from.; 5/9/13, 1:58 PM
Shanna said...: To add to the creepiness, Castro was in attendance at the candlelight vigils, passed out fliers, and consoled the mothers of his victims

Isn't that sort of thing rather classic pathology for serial killers and the like?; 5/9/13, 1:59 PM
Nomennovum said...: acm, you last comment to me was worthless and self-justification. Try again. I can read and understand what I read. Don't insult me with your silly prevarications.; 5/9/13, 2:01 PM
Shanna said...: To be victimized in such cases, to be held prisoner in a single family home in the middle of a major American city is very very unsual.

It is rare but not unheard of. I remember a case in Virginia 10 years or so ago where someone was being held in a closet. Not for as long as these girls, but long enough.

I think you're forgetting about threats, though (and also that they were severly malnourished which probably makes resistence even more difficult). Threats can be powerful, particularly when someone has so much power over you.

I was talking to a lady the other day at tea who mentioned a girl who had been 'groomed' in a way similar to the UK cases. The man had threatened her family and she was afraid and kept going to back to him. (she also mentioned that she herself had been a victim of trafficking but that her captors had used drugs); 5/9/13, 2:04 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I'm sorry if I sound curt or off-putting.

Its not you or what you are saying...

I'm speaking out of the frustration of knowing? sensing? that the very things that might have prevented their prolonged captivity... those thing taught by the gun culture... our government is at war with.

Its so fucking 180 degrees out of phase ... I have to pause and take a breath and sometimes just not comment at all.; 5/9/13, 2:05 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: ...but why was he able to succeed in these three cases?

Self reliance, self defense is not in style.; 5/9/13, 2:15 PM
Nomennovum said...: I think you're forgetting about threats, though .... Threats can be powerful, particularly when someone has so much power over you.

Actually, I'm not. But physical threats are not 24/7. The proof of this is that Castro was gone -- out of the house -- when Amanda escaped. This was pyschological control for the most part -- backed up by beatings, to be sure. However, knowing someone is trying to psyche you out gives you an element control. Why couldn't they recognize when they had an opportunity to do something to give them the chance to free themselves? Ten years! No one can convince me they didn't have opportunity before then. And why didn't the others espcape with Amanda? What was lacking in the pyschological makeup of these young women? Was it something we are all liable to have? Again, I think the only reason Amanada was able to finally "pull the trigger" was that she grew concerned for her child's welfare. That is, her motherly instinct overrode her psychological brain-lock.; 5/9/13, 2:18 PM
Nomennovum said...: Lem, I wasn't put off by your comment. The only comments that have "put me off" are the silly emotional ones that are little more than vitriolic eruptions, like acm's and Fedka the Convict's. Actually, they are probably just my ex playing the sockpuppet.; 5/9/13, 2:32 PM
acm said...: I'm not at all convinced it would be physically easy for the women to break out, even if they were unchained. For starters we don't actually know that there were ordinary glass windows---neighbors have mentioned boarded up windows and windows covered with tarps, so the windows may well have been blocked by heavy furniture or fortified in some way.

More importantly, we're talking about women who started out petite and probably not physically very strong and then were deprived of nutrition, exercise and medical care for years before their captor started leaving them unchained. A few months without exercise will zap your physical energy and strength, so I can definitely imagine how a few years in a closet would it make it very difficult to climb up.to a high window, or rip a door of it's hinges, or whatever it might take to escape.

It's clear to me that they tried to escape, repeatedly, and were unable to do it without outside help.; 5/9/13, 2:56 PM
Shanna said...: It's clear to me that they tried to escape, repeatedly, and were unable to do it without outside help.

It also seems likely they would have been punished for any and all escape attempts and (where the threats come in) likely threatened with death or other serious repercussion for any attempts. That's an uphill battle, even without the malnourishment and physical weakness.

How many times do you touch the oven and get burned before you stop touching the oven? I bet it's like that.

I do think you could be right that the one girl was willing to take on additional risks to protect her child, but that doesn't make it odd that they didn't escape before.; 5/9/13, 3:02 PM
acm said...: One thing that also occurred to me is that perhaps Amanda was his favorite, and that's why she would be the one at the door---maybe he wouldn't punish her as harshly, so she took the risk for all of them? Maybe having the child at the door would temper his reaction, or even provide an excuse (No, I wasn't trying to run, Jocelyn was just looking for you). Maybe they took turns at risking it?

If you are interested in the psychology, there actually are some interesting things...Gina was a special ed student, and Michelle appears to not have had many people looking for her, and was emotionally distressed about a custody battle when she was taken. But that's hardly new ground that needs examining---it's pretty well accepted that people with low self esteem or few friends and people with intellectual challenges are vulnerable to manipulation. And it's a big leap from that to "they could've escaped long before but they weren't motivated enough til the maternal protection thing kicked in".; 5/9/13, 3:17 PM
test said...: acm said...
One thing that also occurred to me is that perhaps Amanda was his favorite, and that's why she would be the one at the door---maybe he wouldn't punish her as harshly, so she took the risk for all of them? Maybe having the child at the door would temper his reaction,

There was a report the daughter told Amanda "he went to grandma's" and the "heavy door" was unlocked.

Also,

Relatives of Grimilda Figueroa said Mr Castro, who is accused of holding three women captive in his house in Ohio, made visitors wait 40 minutes before answering his door and confined them to a single room while a radio played at high volume.; 5/9/13, 3:37 PM
Jason said...: It's not hard. He holds the girls in chains in the same room for years. They bond and won't endanger one another. He tells them that if one escapes the others are killed immediately. With the baby it's even easier. He needs to leave he tells the girls that if he comes home and sees a police car anywhere on the block he drives away and kills the baby slow. He's sadistic so the girls believe him. That's why it took so long.

Anyone second guessing these girls at this point is an ass.; 5/9/13, 4:04 PM
Nomennovum said...: Anyone second guessing these girls at this point is an ass

1. Because you know all the facts.

2. What you laid out above are facts, not notions pulled out of what you call your "brain." (Right?)

3. Victims never do anything stupid or wrong, but even if they -- you know -- did do something stupid or wrong, this should never be discussed.

4. Especially if they are women

5. Who are victims of men

6. Which women, you call "girls"

7. You sexist ass

Jason, of course, is so not a little bitch that he would never attempt an escape, becasue he is so incredibly heroic he would never ever endanger the "girls" the way Amanda Berry did with her cowardly escape!; 5/9/13, 4:26 PM
Jason said...: Novennovum, I didn't mention your name, but yes, I had you, specifically in mind when I wrote that.

And you've validated my initial opinion in fine form.

I'm way, way ahead of you.

Now if you want to come by and call me a pussy, come on by and say that to me and my CIB face to face.; 5/9/13, 4:32 PM
Nomennovum said...: Jason,

What a joke you are. I didn't call you a pussy. I called you a little bitch. Because you are.

You just confirmed that status with your emtpy threat.

You are a little bitch because your misplaced sense of honor says we can never ask some of the more difficult questions in this case. You inflate your knee-jerk emotionalism over a particularly evil event to some sort of manly virtue. Jason, the protector of the girls. It is so pathetically easy to call this guy a psycho loser nutjob douchebag evil fuckface that that is all people like you can do. Over and over. Then you call people like me an ass. And THEN you go challenging me to a fight in whereever-the-fuck you are when I call you an emotional little douche.

Get over yourself. You're not all that.; 5/9/13, 4:44 PM
shirley elizabeth said...: Something I just thought about is if the neighbors ever heard the babies. I live on a street with houses that are bigger and further apart than that of Castro, but my neighbors (even across the street) know when and which of my kids is having a tantrum/teething/playing loudly/hungry/whatever else. And they bring it up when we talk.; 5/9/13, 5:46 PM
Kelly said...: Nomennovum, look at you. Clearly you're still traumatized by your ex (paranoid, accusing people of being your ex) and you want to question why these girls didn't escape? You still aren't free. These girls were locked up, beaten up, raped and brutalized beyond all comprehension. Maybe they're just sockpuppets, eh?; 5/9/13, 5:49 PM
Jason said...: Inviting you over to back up your words is a "threat?"

No, loser. I was simply illustrating what a loser you are, and how off base your ignorant comments are.

Upon reviewing your comments, you aren't just an ass, you're a twisted fuck.; 5/9/13, 6:14 PM
Nomennovum said...: paranoid, accusing people of being your ex

It was a joke, dear.

Please show me where I said they weren't "locked up, beaten up, raped and brutalized" or shut up.; 5/9/13, 6:44 PM
Jason said...: Whoosh.

That was the point sailing over Nomennovum's head.; 5/9/13, 6:58 PM
Nomennovum said...: No, loser. I was simply illustrating what a loser you are, and how off base your ignorant comments are. - Jason

Sure. Now the little bitch tries to lie because his clear implication was not really technically saying he wants to fight me. OK, sweetie, whatever you want, but you're sounding more like a LB every minute.

Jason, you want to know what I really dislike about your act? The bitchiness. You call me an ass, I retort with "well, you're a little bitch," and you then get so puffed up that you want me to come to you "to say it to your face" (every boy since 1st grade knows what this means). You are the type of LB that can dish it out but can't take it. Just like a LB from grade school.

Hey, LB, why don't you show some of my quotes from here on this thread that prove that I am "a twisted fuck." With context, please.

Back up your words right here, not at you awesome but mysterious CIB.; 5/9/13, 7:09 PM
Nomennovum said...: That was the point sailing over Nomennovum's head.

Why don't you explain it to me?; 5/9/13, 7:10 PM
Nomennovum said...: Back up your words right here, not at you awesome but mysterious CIB.

Silly me I thought a CIB was a place, not a badge.

You really are a prize, Jason. Truly awesome in your decorated awesomenss. You just made me lose more respect for you. Worse, you've made me lose respect for your position. In that regard, you've embarrassed your country.

Good work.; 5/9/13, 7:16 PM
Jason said...: Fuck off, troll.; 5/9/13, 7:45 PM
Kelly said...: Oh you say it was a joke, but I think you have some deep seated, unresolved feelings toward your ex. Obviously him/her is still inside your head and I presume you weren't subject to daily torture, rape and other brutal crimes. Maybe someday you to can escape.; 5/9/13, 7:58 PM
Nomennovum said...: Fuck off, troll.

Not the best of retorts, Jason.

Let me tell you a story to express my disappointment in you. With a little background.

I am in the finance industry. I work for a hedge fund. I am now in my early 50s, with two kids, both teenagers. I moved to NYC – Manhattan – in 1986, fresh out of grad school with an MBA. Needless to say, I saw my fair share of social climbers and status whores over the years. “Where do you live?” “I’m going to buy the newest BMW.” “You call them ‘braces,’ not ‘suspenders.’” You get the picture. I hated it. I had a family member who was an unremitting snob. He exhausted me. I hated to be with him. Hated the name-dropping. Hated the bragging. And over the years I became more and more successful. I was good at what I did, though I did not like it all that much. In the early ‘90s I bought a co-op on the Upper East Side. Interesting people lived there, a diverse (in the real sense of the word) bunch of people. Celebrities, whose names you would easily know, came and went. My wife and I met them and befriended them. Writers too and a couple of artists. At the private school my daughters attended, Mayor Giuliani’s kids attended. Another dad at the school, a famous comedian from the original Saturday Night Live, would MC the fund raisers. I met a Baldwin brother and heard gossip about Brad Pitt. I partied in the Dakota for a fund raiser for the Governor. I knew restaurant owners, so I often dined for free and always got a seat in the most amazing places. Still, I generally did not like it, because of all the social climbers and status junkies.

By the time 2001 rolled around I was doing very well, with money to burn. My apartment which I bought cheap was skyrocketing in value. I paid off my mortgage and was debt free. I had become a millionaire. But all I wanted to do was go to my favorite old bars with friends or take my family to inexpensive restaurants in the neighborhood. I was good friends with the local vacuum repair guy from Brooklyn. I drove an American-made SUV. You would never know by looking at me that I was a millionaire at a hedge fund.
Not too long after 9/11, my family and I were at Brother Jimmy’s on Third Avenue and 76th Street (it was a favorite of mine because it reminded me of where I went to college) during – what is it called? – Fleet Week. Lots of Sailors and Marines around. There was a table full of them at Brother Jimmy’s. Sailors. Officers. I went over to the waitress and told her to send over a pitcher of beer and that I would pay their tab for all their food and drink that they already had. It must have been a few hundred dollars worth of stuff. Later, one of the officers came over to shake my hand and thank me. I was quite embarrassed. I had done this for a variety of reasons, but mainly because (1) I could, (2) these guys were from out of town and I wanted to show them that NYers can be kind and (most of all) (3) out of respect for what they were doing for me and my country. But the attention he gave me made me uncomfortable. (My wife probably thought, “Why the hell is he doing giving away MY money?) I thought, “Am I showing off by throwing so much money around?” Did I tell you how I hate showboating, Jason? Despise bragging? Loathe attention-whoring by status conscious douches? I considered never doing what I did that night again. But a couple of nights later, I did, but this time I told the waitress to keep it anonymous. And so I continued ever after.

This, Jason, is why I am so disgusted by your calling attention to your status. Doubly, so in this case because, not only did you do something that makes my skin crawl, you made me think that maybe I was taken advantage of by those sailors and Marines. Was I a chump, giving freebies to guys who expected such treatment by dint of their status? Was I treated like some loser guy manipulated into buying a pretty girl a drink? Do all of you do this to civilians, Jason?; 5/9/13, 9:02 PM
Nomennovum said...: Also, Jason, next time you call me twisted come say it to me and my bank account.; 5/9/13, 9:02 PM
Shanna said...: you want to question why these girls didn't escape? You still aren't free.

Excellent point, Kelly.

Even bad ass marines break down after years of physical and psychological torture. And that's with training. These girls were very young when this started.; 5/9/13, 9:08 PM
Nomennovum said...: Oh you say it was a joke. -- Kelly

Yes, I did, sweetheart.

Sorry you can't see the obvious, but thanks for the amateur psychoanalysis, anyway.

Maybe she's in my head often, Kelly honey, but that's only because I have to write her check at least once a month. You know how it is.; 5/9/13, 9:10 PM
Jason said...: tl; dr. I got far enough to know you think a lot about your money, and you confirmed it with your last post.

Narcissist prick.; 5/9/13, 9:38 PM
Nomennovum said...: Narcissist prick.

Indeed. You and your CIB ought to know.; 5/9/13, 9:49 PM
Jason said...: You took a thread about these girls and make it about you.

As I said, fuck off, troll.; 5/9/13, 9:52 PM
Nomennovum said...: You made it about me, silly boy. Have you already forgot your ad hominem about me being an "ass"? I was always talking about the girls, Jason's badge, but you chose to make it about all about me. I just had to provide a little context.

Gee, how quickly they forget ...

BTW, I think your actions make you the troll.

Buenos noches.; 5/9/13, 10:18 PM
Jason said...: Heh. Only one of us wrote his life story here, Narcissus.; 5/10/13, 8:02 AM
Nomennovum said...: Yeah, thanks for giving me the opening to write it.

I'm glad you read it. After I posted it, I saw it length and I was concerned that it was too long; you didn't read it.; 5/10/13, 9:56 AM
Jason said...: I read maybe half a graph in, decided I didn't care about you. Read the final paragraph which was stupid.

Look, Narcissus is determined to have the last word! He must be fun at parties; 5/10/13, 12:06 PM
Nomennovum said...: Look, Narcissus is determined to have the last word!

LOL. Why don't we agree to give the last word to your badge?; 5/10/13, 12:42 PM