Information the IRS demanded from the Coalition for Life of Iowa. Asked if that's an appropriate question to a 501(c)(3) applicant, IRS commissioner Steven Miller says he's pained at his inability to answer.
What an awful witness! (And I say that after watching much of today's testimony before the House Ways and Means Committee.)
ADDED: To help you think about what might be an appropriate question read this ("Exemption requirements") and this ("Exempt purposes"). Miller seemed to actively resist giving us any idea how the requested details might have been anything but harassment, even as he squirmed away from a simple denouncement of the request.
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273 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 273 of 273We are witnessing a blatant example of phx siding with government abuse, seeing it not as tyranny, neither awful nor dangerous, and his reaction is to call people who respond with anger or horror or fear just being foolish.
Do I have that right?
Do I have that right?
You're a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room.
No, you don't have it right.
Obama's supporters are not bothered by Obama's abuse of government powers since Obama supporters are all for using government against their enemies. They want more government power used to attack their enemies.
The I in IRS must stand for Inquisition. And now that the Chief IRS Tea Party Inquisitor has been put in charge of Obamacare we better all pray for apolitical access to health care.
Then what is my foolishness, being that you used my statement about damning non-reaction to IRS abuse as the basis for your snark?
And this is why I called out phx, Largo.
a distinguished weasel
You'll make a great Vyshinsky though, Pogo. Loved the show trial.
Then what is my foolishness, being that you used my statement about damning non-reaction to IRS abuse as the basis for your snark?
I already spoke to that. I think everyone who followed this exchange got it.
At this point, fuck yourself, Prosecutor.
Weasel is the right word.
Cannot admit to any belief at all.
And thank you, that is what I knew you would say, ultimately, rather than admit that the IRS was tyrannical.
And thank you, that is what I knew you would say, ultimately, rather than admit that the IRS was tyrannical.
LOL. Goddam you really love that prosecutor role you set up for yourself. How your iron-clad logic traps all the defendants that appear before you!
You should read the Gulag Archipelago. You'll fit right in.
I read it. The gulag is a lefty invention.
I read it. The gulag is a lefty invention.
And racism is white people's invention. Black people can't be racist.
Aww, the little cunt, phx is here again refusing to answer direct questions and wallowing in ignorance.
How nice.
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Phx that is such an interesting theory. Am I reading this right. You think the parties actively manipulate the situation so they stay in equal balance? ... God I thought I was cynical about government!
I'll give credit to @ Phx for recognizing the concept. But, seriously, how many times do I have to post about **the institutionalized senior executive bureaucracy** before anyone besides @Phx realizes it?
Virtually everyone under the microscope now has a long career working for both parties. At the SES level and above you are either a total chameleon or you don't survive. Period.
Someone asked earlier about why people in government, mostly civil servants, grades GS-01 through GS-15, don't whistle-blow. It is simple...you have a job and need to keep it...embarrass a bunch of SES or Flag Rank Officers and see what happens to you.
I was a whistle-blower three times, twice with complete cover, once without any cover. It cost me a few grades in rank and income, due to suspicion etc. I do not regret it one bit however. For the times I had cover I had to be as devious and deceptive as the jerks I was ratting out...trust me, the idea of pseudonym email addresses and ISP's, Trac Phones, etc. did not originate with this administration.
The time I had no cover was when a Major General telephoned and emailed a group of senior executives with a cease and desist order for activities they were undertaking that were illegal. The general had information that could only have come from me and I had telephoned and emailed his staff 24 hours earlier while on the road traveling...no way to set up a cover in time.
In short, it seems to defeat malfeasance from the inside out requires one to be almost equally bad as the malefactors. I don't regret it...it was fun while it lasted. Government is corrupting and that is the very best reason to limit it.
Maybe Occupy the IRS should send a few busloads of 'volunteers' to go protest on Miller's lawn.
Not like the tactic hasn't been used before.
Pogo wrote...Ritmo with an EQ
Phx should be locked up inside a locutorium. His/her intent here is pure sophistry: to attract or repel comment. There appears to be no substance behind the mask, or if there is, it is a detachable mask. It's the aspect of the Althouse blog I least enjoy.
phx said...
Do I have that right?
You're a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room.
No, you don't have it rig
You haven't made your case.
There appears to be no substance behind the mask, or if there is, it is a detachable mask. It's the aspect of the Althouse blog I least enjoy.
Well make your complaint to the owners.
In my experience as a government employee (federal and municipal) and as a union member (6 different unions), the only two rules are "don't be a snitch" and "never do anything that might break your iron rice bowl". At least 95% of employees follow these rules faithfully, that's why there are so few whistle-blowers.
phxwrote: Well make your complaint to the owners.
Au contraire, I think the owners have a duty to discourage bad faith commenting.
Au contraire, I think the owners have a duty to discourage bad faith commenting.
Well that's what I said. Take your concerns about my "bad faith commenting" and how it's impacting your ability to enjoy the blog to the owners.
Or are you just trying to intimidate me?
Or are you just trying to intimidate me?
Of course not. I just despise faux transparency and duplicity.
It's the aspect of the Althouse blog I least enjoy.
I always thought your focus on my posts at Althouse was a little gay.
You don't like my posts. Too bad. Don't read them. I promise not to address you if you like.
phx: "And racism is white people's invention. Black people can't be racist."
Please tell me you are being snarky.
Normally, I would make the assumption that you are, but given the number of those on the left who actually do believe this, I can no longer assume that.
Please detail the content of the members of your organization's prayers.
If I wasn't an atheist I'd be praying every night that the US makes it all the way to 2016.
@Aridog, I live in the Washington area and know of plenty of people exactly like the ones you describe. I don't think anyone north of Baltimore or west of the Shenandoah Valley can even begin to comprehend how vastly different the governing culture is from the imagining of people like PHX.
Please tell me you are being snarky.
I was. I was saying Pogo sounded like a prosecutor from the Gulag Archipelago and he said "The left invented the GA," like that meant righties couldn't act like stalinists.
I was setting him straight with an apt, and snarky, analogy.
phx: "I was. I was saying Pogo sounded like a prosecutor from the Gulag Archipelago and he said "The left invented the GA," like that meant righties couldn't act like stalinists."
Well, alright.
However, when you conflate a simple "rightie" poster on a public blog site with a "prosecutor" from the Gulag Archipelago, don't you think you might, perhaps, in a small way, be minimizing the controlled and directed obliteration of around 60 million human beings at the altar of the all powerful state?
And, given that your conflation occurred during a debate about why the ever increasing power of our federal bureaucracy (led by and has been cheered by the "lefties")has been used against the "righties", I can see where pogo might be a tad miffed at said conflation.
are asserting that righties can act like Stalinists, you might need to explain that.
Since the "right" tends towards less and less government (in terms of size and scope).
Therefore, it's strange that someone might argue that the "right" could act like Stalinists when, at least for the last hundred years or so, we have many many examples of lefties acting like Stalinists (in addition to the actual "Stalin" and his "-ists".)
What happened to my last post?
talk about getting chopped up.
I'll assume you didn't read the full exchange with me and Pogo.
Or if you did I'll put you down as being on Pogo's side.
But to be clear, you don't have an opinion on this IRS matter.
But to be clear, you don't have an opinion on this IRS matter.
I gave my opinion in this thread. If you can't find it that's your problem.
Pogo said...
What Althouse and the other SSM proponents don't get (or are hiding for now) is that this is exactly how they will destroy American Catholics and other religions that don't bow to the Magic Gay Elves.
Count on it.
This plus one thousand. That is the plan and it is amazing how bold they are about it.
To ask the content of people's prayers?
To demand they give up their first amendment rights and agree to not protest abortion?
To be forced to give birth control and abortion services in direct defiance to doctrine?
It is just unbelievable.
I bet no one called this Steve Miler a Space Cowboy. Or a Gangster of Love. Or Maurice.
And noone ever spoke of the Pompatus of Love in this guys presence.
Bill, Republic of Texas wrote:
And I really believe that the poor, working people and vulnerable need a champion.
I just wish the Democrats could shake off the elists leftys and get back to its core values of liberty, good govenment and help for the downtrodden
the democrats have gone too far to socialism to ever really address those core values you say they should go back to.
What you want is a classical liberal, which, nowadays is a conservative.
In particular, the "help for the downtrodden" part. What helps the down trodden more than a job?
And yet ,the left is all about Occupy Wall Street as an ethos. Anti business, pro big govt give me programs.
I'm all for govt largesse, but only if it can afford it. And not at the expense of the actual economy. modern libs love govt so much they made it an either or proposition. Either business or govt.
And OBama chose govt.
poppa india said...
... "don't be a snitch" ... At least 95% of employees follow these rules faithfully ...
Here's to the 5%!
Hooah.
When it comes to Tea Partiers, Phx is the interloctur. When it comes to liberals phx is the great agnostic.
The great agnostic when it comes to the sins of the liberal, that should say.(not agnostic about liberalism in and of itself).
Don't expect an honest debate from PHX. He is the ULTIMATE shill. And he even says so on this very topic. When it comes to Tea Party sins, he is all about making those be the face of conservatism. When it comes to Obamas sins, or sins of democrats all of a sudden its all about the legalese.
He sounds an awful lot like Steve Miller answering questions about the IRS targeting right wing groups.
Dodge. Dodge. Dodge. Dodge.
@jr565: There's nothing intrinsically wrong with advocacy for one side or the other. I even think that Althouse policy is to encourage that. But there is no standing or grounds for someone advocating for a position not based in fact or reality. In this case, what are the "facts" that could be "shilled for" by the other side? That it was defensible policy at some level--even abstractly? If so then they should stick to that.
To show up and merely argue against Tea Party principles is commenter fraud.
To show up and merely argue against Tea Party principles is commenter fraud.
Oh brother. You're so full of horseshit.
"Dear Meadehouse:
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with advocacy for one side or the other. I even think that your policy is to encourage that. But there is no standing or grounds for someone advocating for a position not based in fact or reality. In this case, what are the 'facts' that could be 'shilled for' by the other side? That it was defensible policy at some level--even abstractly? If so then they should stick to that.
I'm sure you will agree with me and ban phx. He is making Althouse a most unpleasant experience for me.
- El Pollo Raylan"
What a pile of horseballs you are. You coward.
A pile of horseballs sounds pretty testosterone-laden to me.
A poor metaphor for cowardice.
@phx: It would have been funnier if you put that in a chirbit.
A pile of horseballs sounds pretty testosterone-laden to me.
They're not attached to the horse.
@phx: It would have been funnier if you put that in a chirbit.
Shouldn't you be busy denouncing me?
There appears to be no substance behind the mask, or if there is, it is a detachable mask. It's the aspect of the Althouse blog I least enjoy.
I think the owners have a duty to discourage bad faith commenting.
Such a little sissy-ass you are.
phx said...
A pile of horseballs...not attached to the horse.
I resemble that remark
They're not attached to the horse.
No shit.
Let me spell it out for you:
Because the testicles are the primary source of testosterone, it is normal for geldings to have much lower testosterone levels than intact colts or stallions.
Please tell me you knew that, and were just flailing about for a riposte.
Next scandal: how the US govt has discriminated against conservatives in its hiring. In filling out job applications at usajobs.gov one's ideology is almost laid out to bare (sex, race, etc).
Do our representatives have any balls?
No shit.
Let me spell it out for you:
Because the testicles are the primary source of testosterone, it is normal for geldings to have much lower testosterone levels than intact colts or stallions.
Please tell me you knew that, and were just flailing about for a riposte.
Fine ChipS. It was a terrible metaphor. You're very smart.
@phx: I don't see why you feel so personally devastated by my 12:58 comment. It's a tough standard. Feel free to use it against me.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!
Feel free to use it against me.
Nobody is accountable to me ever.
Nobody is accountable to me ever.
And you are not above the common law of commenting. Unless you state otherwise and for good reason.
I'm accountable for myself, to myself. That's all, you Giant Baby.
Well somewhere in this country there's a hard-workin' man
Readin' his paper as he tries to understand
Are there no honest people left anymore?
One night will he hear a poundin' on his door?
If it gets that way, Lord help us all
Tom T. Hall, "Watergate Blues"
What other people do isn't my responsibility, even if it's directed at me. My responsibility is how I respond to it.
"It's probably an honest answer that there could be some circumstance where it is warranted, though I'm having a very hard time conceiving of one."
That's because there are none.
He's not an awful witness, he is an awful excuse for an American.
Every "agency" and "service" and "department" is a tentacle of the Executive Branch of our beloved checked and balanced Federal Government, invented by the ravings of 2,500-page laws enacted but unread by the Legislative Branch (complete with plenty of "as the Secretary shall determine" authorizations) and approved by our esteemed Judicial Branch, that hasn't declared anything that limits the Federal Government unconstitutional in decades.
We truly have become slaves to our own unquestioned government. What a sad end to a great nation.
phx said...
I'm accountable for myself, to myself. That's all, you Giant Baby.
Hey! I finally turned El Pollo into a Giant's Fan!
Huzzah!
So we know the IRS has requested all sorts of the information.... what did they do with it. It seems unlikley that it was simply filed away NEVER to be seen again.
Hey! I finally turned El Pollo into a Giant's Fan!
I hope you're talking about the San Francisco Giants.
I was wondering whether I might die without ever using "grotesquerie" in a sentence.
Can't you just see the IRS employees laughing as they get together and write those questions?
My impression is they weren't so much laughing as deadly serious. I think they felt that they owed it to themselves, to the country (and in some cases to their race) to make sure Obama was re-elected. They didn't feel guilt at abusing the constitution because to the extent they understood the constitution at all they saw it as an impediment to the progressive agenda in that it allowed corporate free speech and the citizenry to bear arms.
The progressive point of view has always been that of the Borgias popes--"God has given us the papacy; let us enjoy it." And for progressives of all stripes, there is no greater joy than using the power if the state to smite your enemies.
El Pollo wrote:
That it was defensible policy at some level--even abstractly? If so then they should stick to that.
To show up and merely argue against Tea Party principles is commenter fraud.
THat's true, in and of itself. Except, phx initially came across as someone who was not merely here to throw eggs at the Tea Party. In other words, he lied about his objectivity.
If Phx is just an attack dog for the left, then cool. He's entitled to be. We shouldn't expect anything but that from him though.
this is exactly how they will destroy American Catholics and other religions that don't bow to the Magic Gay Elves.
What annoys me is how the media has totally obscured the part that gay priests played in the molestation scandals. They act as if the only problem was that the church hierarchy didn't report the problem soon enough (or at all).
Of course the church didn't report gay priests for molesting adolescent boys. Church officials would have had to report their friends (and in some cases their lovers too).
s, he lied about his objectivity.
He does that alot.
But at least he and I can agree that someone needs to be doing hard time because of this. I nominate Mr. Miller.
Congress writes laws that are way too broad and give way too much discretion to rule-writers and executive agencies, because they (Congress) want to be seen as doing soemthing but they are too lazy and irresponsible to grapple with the hard, detailed matters of how their grand ideas will actually work in the real world.
Then the people who write tyhe rules get into it and they try to tighten it up but they are bound by what Congress gave them to work with, and they have limited time and resources and have to cut corners.
So you wind up with idiocy like this---Miller was right, he can't say it's illegal because nowhere in teh law or regulations does it clearly state what is not an allowable question, and that asking it would violate a specific statute.
It' been this way ever since the New Deal. If you want the government to do all sorts of "nice" but unnecessary things you have to trust them with a lot of discretion. Personally, I would rather go back to what we had in Coolidge's day, mayeb even McKinley's and Cleveland's, but I'm a small minority.
But don't kid yourself, with the Leviathan government you are going to have administrative discretion and this kind of stuff is inevitable.
Mrs. Althouse..
I'm not an attorney, never been to college, just a one time Airman, retired grocer on a disability. I just want to share this..
at a family gathering yesterday, small, democrats and republicans, all low end working class.. the sense of the discussion was depressed.. all of us, all in and around the same ages.. all were stunned to our socks by the IRS admission of targeting individuals for their political beliefs.
A sinking feeling to the pit of my stomach best describes it. having been in the last years of the cold war.. standing a post against the Soviets, I have to wonder, is this even my country anymore?
Where political persecution is not only happening, but condoned by some?
The subject became very personal.. I've had a running fight with workers comp.. and now, medicare,.. how can I deal with this, and not wonder in the back of my mind, is there a big red R stamped on my files?
and the same thing occurred to everyone else there, even the democrats were sick about it, we're family, politics or not.. and they wondered.. how would I feel were it me the government didn't like? I'm not saying that I'm being targeted..
Just that.. now..
how will that fear, doubt ever go away?
Whatever limited trust there was is gone.. murdered by Miller's lame excuses.. by the happy smirks of online progressives all so happy about it. HOW will we ever trust that we won't be targeted by some IRS.. Obamacare flunky who compares voter registration with your medical files?
with your activities, group affiliations? We can never trust it won't happen because it just did..
I'm very dependent on medical care right now, very much in pain, and workers comp is refusing surgery because one doctor said no.. then refusing twice more a second opinion.. how can I ever be sure it's not because I'm a registered commenter at Hotair?.. or a veteran?.. a Christian with strong pro-life views, and not kept secret about it online..
Maybe pain, government indifference and an unrelated scandal create suspicion too easily.. but it's there, and real.
This scandal has legs..
Because it isn't just me, but nearly everyone like me who's dependent on government services now wondering if the services aren't a weapon beat us into silence. My Michigan cousin, she says the same,.. democrat aunt.. her too.. they need not go after all of us, just create the fear,.. you say what we do not like..
you'll suffer for it... and with a medical condition, it is suffer..
The unanimity of opinion is striking.. that's why this scandal will do what the MSM has feared most, turn the whole of public opinion against Obama..
I fear no man.. but a fractured spine without medication isn't a man, and that they've done to me already once..
we have to win this, purge this unAmerican rot now, before we become used to being afraid..
Pogo:
"""We are witnessing a blatant example of government tyranny both awful and dangerous, and any reaction other than anger or horror or fear is in my mind unacceptable."""
Have I reacted, and has my reaction been one of anger, fear, or horror?
I have many opinions, but I rarely opine.
(For what it is worth, and if it gives you any comfort, my one word description of these revelations is 'alarming'. But do you in any way need me to say that?)
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