Althouse: Gosnell guilty.

May 13, 2013

Gosnell guilty.

On 3 counts of murder.

Acquitted on one.

82 comments:

Kevin said...: I call his feet. I have a jar right here.; 5/13/13, 2:28 PM
Æthelflæd said...: Praise God.; 5/13/13, 2:28 PM
pdug said...: It's a good start.; 5/13/13, 2:29 PM
cubanbob said...: How could the jury be deadlocked on any of the murder counts? And will the state seek the death penalty?; 5/13/13, 2:31 PM
edutcher said...: And I don't want to hear one word about his race, his age, or how many slaves were in his family.

Right now crucifixion looks pretty good.; 5/13/13, 2:32 PM
kimsch said...: Praise the Lord, he is guilty on three counts. Apparently he was shocked, shocked I tell you, that he was found guilty.

He was also found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the verdose death of former patient Karnamaya Mongar.; 5/13/13, 2:32 PM
Larry J said...: If the MSM refuses to cover the story, did it really happen? The MSM seems to act as if their refusal to report stories outside of the "narrative" will prevent anyone from learning about these things. That may be true for low information voters like the readers of the New York Times. To the rest of us, it just reinforces our belief that the MSM are just a bunch of propaganda hacks.; 5/13/13, 2:34 PM
Cedarford said...: Good!

Now legislatures should get in and strictly limit 3rd trimester abortions to life and critical physical health of the mother and severe fetal defect.
With permission coming only with an independent medical review board having a chance to review and dispute the woman's doctor.

And get rid of the rape and incest loophole. Any woman claiming she was raped but didn't do anything for 8 months is likely lying.; 5/13/13, 2:36 PM
Shanna said...: Good.; 5/13/13, 2:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Cedarford has it right.; 5/13/13, 2:37 PM
test said...: cubanbob said...
How could the jury be deadlocked on any of the murder counts?

The defense argued the state had not proven the babies were born alive.; 5/13/13, 2:38 PM
SteveR said...: Well it would be easy to go off on the Plaaned Parenthood/NARALs of the world for well deserved criticism as relates to the industry Gosnell represented. I don't think he was all that isolated. But its a tragedy and I have to consider its an attitude about life that does not speal well of our humanity.; 5/13/13, 2:38 PM
Anonymous said...: With wide availability of the morning-after pill, why should abortion be acceptable at all?; 5/13/13, 2:39 PM
Anonymous said...: cubanbob said...
How could the jury be deadlocked on any of the murder counts?

Well, for example, there could have been no witness in the room when the baby was delivered, and there was an assumption that it was born alive, or the witnesses that were called on this count conflicted with each-other or some evidence...; 5/13/13, 2:39 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Does this verdict advance the pro-life pro-choice position? I think the guilty verdicts help the pro choice side because now they can say he was an outlier and a criminal and justice was served

I can tell you as a pro-choice person, this trial and the hidden videos really make me think. Clearly partial birth abortion has to be made illegal. I think I would support abortion until 12 weeks and after that except life or serious health of the mother or baby. And none of that mental health BS.

Abortion decisions really need to be made at the state level where a political solution can be reached.; 5/13/13, 2:43 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: The evidence must have been devastating.; 5/13/13, 2:44 PM
MadisonMan said...: Not a jury I would have wanted to sit on. They deserve our thanks.; 5/13/13, 2:46 PM
chickelit said...: POTUS should make a statement to give Planned Parenthood some guidance.; 5/13/13, 2:50 PM
Renee said...: "With wide availability of the morning-after pill, why should abortion be acceptable at all?"

Women don't realize we're pregnant until we miss a period.

Basically you're argument is that woman MUST take Plan B every time we have sex.

What is the point of any contraception, if there is Plan B.

Really how many women have sex enough times a month to make contraception a worth while investment?; 5/13/13, 2:50 PM
Renee said...: "And none of that mental health BS."

I think many people would agree.; 5/13/13, 2:51 PM
test said...: Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Does this verdict advance the pro-life pro-choice position? I think the guilty verdicts help the pro choice side because now they can say he was an outlier and a criminal and justice was served

I think it helps the pro lifers once they point out that other medical professionals were referring patients they refused to treat to Gosnell. The interactions show they knew what he was doing and at the very least their ignorance of the specifics was by design.; 5/13/13, 2:53 PM
cubanbob said...: Marshal said...
cubanbob said...
How could the jury be deadlocked on any of the murder counts?

The defense argued the state had not proven the babies were born alive.

5/13/13, 2:38 PM

Decapitation isn't necessary if the kid was already dead. So unless one accepts that besides being evil Gosnell is also stupid the cutting of the spinal cord indicates he belived the kid was alive and there is no evidence to the contrary as far as I know.

I wonder if the state can appeal the judges decision to toss some of the murder counts and if it can, will it?; 5/13/13, 2:54 PM
Æthelflæd said...: "Really how many women have sex enough times a month to make contraception a worth while investment? "

Ummm....; 5/13/13, 2:54 PM
Eric the Fruit Bat said...: A tense courtroom drama with a happy ending, apparently.; 5/13/13, 2:55 PM
Alex said...: 10% of the women have 90% of the sex.; 5/13/13, 2:57 PM
Leland said...: Good!

And I actually agree with C4 and Inga, so it is a surprising day in all.; 5/13/13, 2:57 PM
Anonymous said...: "Really how many women have sex enough times a month to make contraception a worth while investment?"

5/13/13, 2:50 PM

Renee, that was a joke right? :); 5/13/13, 2:59 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: POTUS should make a statement to give Planned Parenthood some guidance.

"If in fact PP personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting late term pregnancies for abortion, then that's outrageous and there's no place for it -- and they have to be held fully accountable."

There... there.; 5/13/13, 3:00 PM
Renee said...: There are a lot of sexless relationships out there.; 5/13/13, 3:01 PM
dbp said...: RU 486 can be used up to 7 weeks after the last period. It is not the same thing as the moring after pill.; 5/13/13, 3:02 PM
Rabel said...: Will the persons who referred the women to Gosnell have any liability?; 5/13/13, 3:02 PM
Renee said...: @dbp

Even an early natural miscarriage are a miserable experience, I think most women would just like to naturally have a period.; 5/13/13, 3:05 PM
Anonymous said...: Here's my pre-emptive Lefty argument:

Gosnell was old-school, and internalized the racist patriarchy and its codes. Even he devalued black women more than most old white men. The lighter you were, the more hope you had at some kind of dignity.

This honor code contributed to his sadism and quotidian disregard for life. No one cares anyways, so why should he?

Somehow he is a victim. Somehow people who disagree with the Left are at fault. Somehow there are some more rights we can enforce from the top down and through legal activism.

Either that or uncomfortable silence. The Left will rely on the justice system for now...

Witness this sad and convenient turning away from murder, and unintended consequences.

The ideals will remain true, etched in the sky, filtering and moderating themselves in the media and the public mind.; 5/13/13, 3:05 PM
Leland said...: So Bill, you say your pro-choice, then write: "Abortion decisions really need to be made at the state level where a political solution can be reached. "

So you oppose Roe v. Wade?; 5/13/13, 3:09 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Will the persons who referred the women to Gosnell have any liability?

What difference, at this point, does it make?; 5/13/13, 3:12 PM
dbp said...: @Renee,

I think the point being made here is that there is no need for legal surgical abortion when drug-induced ones are available. At some poimt the pregnancy has gone too far for drugs, but why wait that long in the first place?; 5/13/13, 3:13 PM
test said...: Rabel said...
Will the persons who referred the women to Gosnell have any liability?

I doubt it. They can always say they referred patients with the expectation the treating physician would undertake the proper evaluation under the exception rules - and not proceed if the patient didn't meet the terms.

That's why abortion activists are so adamant about the exceptions: they effectively allow anything. Look at the circumstances required to catch Gosnell. A patient's death under care wasn't enough.

Drugs were the only thing big enough draw attention, nice priorities.; 5/13/13, 3:15 PM
President-Mom-Jeans said...: They got him on three counts of murder, thats good enough for me.

The sick fuck certainly will not be the punishment he deserves (at least in this life). Best case scenario he gets a shank in prison and bleeds out slowly and painfully.

And much like speedbump, this piece of garbage does not deserve a burial, and his remains should be bacon wrapped shark bait.

Bacon wrapped for when he inevitably converts to Islam in prison.; 5/13/13, 3:23 PM
acm said...: Eh, abortion shouldn't exist at all; it's murder.

But, if I try, for argument's sake, I can pretend abortion is just another medical procedure and I can see the point about abortion still existing even when Plan B exists---a woman who is using the pill, or whose husband has had a vasectomy, wouldn't.know that the contraception had failed til she misses her period, too late for Plan B. A couple who had a condom break while on vacation in some remote place, or a country without Plan B, (yeah, I know it's a stretch) might not be able to get Plan B. A woman who is abducted and raped might not be released early enough after the rape for Plan B to work. Now, I don't think those scenarios happen all that often, or that any of them make abortion okay. But certainly they are the scenarios Renee should've brought up (and honestly where I thought she was going) instead of "how many women get enough sex to make contraception worthwhile?"; 5/13/13, 3:29 PM
Bender said...: I notice the New York Times still could not call the victims people or persons, saying instead that he was convicted of three counts of murdering a fetus.; 5/13/13, 3:32 PM
Birches said...: How hard is it to buy a box of condoms?; 5/13/13, 3:35 PM
Leland said...: I'm usually not into the cruel and unusual punishment of victims. I support the death penalty, because the state is far more humane than the murders in their method.

Still, when it comes to Gosnell, I don't think I would mind Kevin sitting outside Gosnell's cell with a saw waiting for Gosnell's death to stake his claim. That way Gosnell will understand just what kind of a monster he is.; 5/13/13, 3:36 PM
Anonymous said...: And much like speedbump, this piece of garbage does not deserve a burial, and his remains should be bacon wrapped shark bait.

The feet should go in a jar...; 5/13/13, 3:36 PM
Renee said...: There was a whole TV series on "I Didn't Know I was Pregnant"; 5/13/13, 3:38 PM
Renee said...: Thank You Birches...; 5/13/13, 3:39 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Leland said... So Bill, you say your pro-choice, then write: "Abortion decisions really need to be made at the state level where a political solution can be reached. "

So you oppose Roe v. Wade?

5/13/13, 3:09 PM

Yes. I do not think abortion is a constitutional right but I would politically support a woman's choice within resonable and common sense restrictiins and regulations (as the politicians always say).; 5/13/13, 3:41 PM
Shanna said...: But certainly they are the scenarios Renee should've brought up

I would also mention that Birth Control is not 100% effective. Is Plan B? Is it messed up by antibiotics like BC?

There was a whole TV series on "I Didn't Know I was Pregnant"

Yeah, but that show was kind of insane. But I do agree that Plan B will not work for every circumstance (doesn't mean I support abortion though).; 5/13/13, 4:07 PM
Never-Biden Never-Putin said...: Pro-democrat hack media in full ignore mode.

Doesn't fit the narrative.
Obama is pro-late-term abortion.; 5/13/13, 4:08 PM
Unknown said...: "I think the guilty verdicts help the pro choice side because now they can say he was an outlier and a criminal and justice was served."

I think every abortion doctor is going to be a little more careful and clean up their act. That works toward fewer abortions.
It's also a chance for people to demand more inspections, oversight and accountability of abortion clinics.

At least those will be the effects if abortion is treated, even a little bit, like guns.; 5/13/13, 4:18 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Bender said... I notice the New York Times still could not call the victims people or persons, saying instead that he was convicted of three counts of murdering a fetus.

5/13/13, 3:32 PM

Really? that's insane. That is some industrial strength stupid. It makes them sound like theysupport post birth abortion.; 5/13/13, 4:19 PM
Brian Brown said...: Kermit Gosnell: you have a gruesome abortion mill? You didn't build that! Planned Parenthood and "pro-choice" policies made that happen.; 5/13/13, 4:21 PM
Methadras said...: I will personally volunteer to fire the shot, pull the lever, press the plunger, sharpen the knives, or whatever else is required of me to make this sub-human animals journey to hell as slow and as painful as possible.; 5/13/13, 4:28 PM
Roger J. said...: we need to reconsider bringing back public hanging drawing and quartering. Even that would be too good for Gosnell.; 5/13/13, 4:32 PM
Roger J. said...: To echo Mad Man's point--this must have been an horrific case for jurors to consider. I would hope I would never be in their position. They did well.; 5/13/13, 4:33 PM
furious_a said...: Guilty Verdict in Local News Story

Jesus wept, imagine having been on this jury and having had to sift through the evidence and listen to the testimony...those people are going to have nightmares for YEARS.; 5/13/13, 4:35 PM
RecChief said...: and the NYT can only say something to the effect of 'fetuses removed from their mothers'. Even Gosnell's attorney admitted they were babies.; 5/13/13, 4:44 PM
Anonymous said...: lmao. Who wants to bet Obama and his baby-killing regime try to interfere and get him a reduced sentence/reprieve from the governor?

Better yet, "investigate" due to racism---i.e. blacks cannot be criminals in lefty-mindthing.

And Easy Annie A. and Inga, the lying, murdering Obama whore will cheer his release. "He's just an old man!" they will cry. "What does it matter now? The people are dead!" and "Long live baby killing!"

Enjoy the decline, infanticiders!; 5/13/13, 4:50 PM
Dante said...: I'm curious whether those who support the death penalty whether you think Gosnell should be put to death for these murders?; 5/13/13, 4:53 PM
Anonymous said...: lol. Another fine, upstanding black king railroaded by whitey's system.

Kermit Gosnell is a hero, and whitey tore him down 'cause he got uppity! Trayvon! Jena 6! Emmit Till!

Seig Heil, Mein Obama!; 5/13/13, 4:54 PM
Dante said...: And I don't want to hear one word about his race

Somehow, though I read several articles on the guy, I didn't realize he was black (or mixed).

It does change my view on what treating the white women better meant.; 5/13/13, 4:55 PM
Roger J. said...: Dante: to answer your question--yes; 5/13/13, 4:56 PM
jr565 said...: cubanbob wrote:
Decapitation isn't necessary if the kid was already dead. So unless one accepts that besides being evil Gosnell is also stupid the cutting of the spinal cord indicates he belived the kid was alive and there is no evidence to the contrary as far as I know.

Seriously. I mean, what's the defense,the babies were dead. He just liked cutting the spines of already dead babies because he is into maiming dead babies for no reason?

Unless the argument is that he is Mengele, then the babies were alive at the time and needed to be made dead.; 5/13/13, 5:04 PM
Cedarford said...: I don't think Ruth Ginsburg making a spate of remarks that the SCOTUS screwed up in 1973 and the matter was too broadly decided and it should have been more a political and legislative resolution - was a coincidence.

She has made past criticisms of it, and that Sandra Day O'Connor and Souter made Casey (1992)into an utter mess.

Timing though, as Gosnell verdict was pending, does seem to be signalling something. I'd like to think one of the liberals is giving us a strong come on....

1. Cut out the insane extemists - the feminists that want babies pulled out of the womb killed "if she chooses it" and the Right to Life goobers that want to execute anyone using an IUD or taking a morning after pill as murderers of sweet Jesus's babies at week 1.

2. If legislatures come up with commonsense solutions, that Ginsburg will go with it. She wants to fix Roe and Sandra Day O'Connor's idiocy before she croaks. It is needed because the issue has not been accepted as resolved by the public. For 40 years it has poisoned both Parties that have to pander to the worst extremists on it.; 5/13/13, 5:20 PM
Saint Croix said...: Okay, the NYT article is making me furious.

the fetuses Dr. Gosnell was charged with killing were alive when they were removed from their mothers.

They write like Nazis. They write like slave-owners. Even when Kermit Gosnell is convicted of murder, they cannot acknowledge that a baby was killed. They are still dehumanizing the babies and, implicitly, are damning the verdict as unjust and unfair.; 5/13/13, 5:44 PM
Saint Croix said...: If legislatures come up with commonsense solutions, that Ginsburg will go with it.

No way. Ginsburg has already argued for a constitutional right to decapitate the baby outside the birth canal.

Her criticism of Roe is that it was not feminist enough. She's never met an abortion she doesn't like.; 5/13/13, 5:48 PM
furious_a said...: St. Croix: you should pen a letter to the editor informing them of such.; 5/13/13, 5:49 PM
Æthelflæd said...: Dante said... "I'm curious whether those who support the death penalty whether you think Gosnell should be put to death for these murders?"

Absolutely.; 5/13/13, 6:02 PM
Saint Croix said...: Althouse suggested once that an acquittal might have helped the pro-life movement, in that it would have outraged millions of Americans who would demand justice.

It's really a nightmare to imagine Gosnell acquitted, and then he re-opens his clinic. I think it's likely somebody would have shot him. I could imagine all sorts of angry and bad outcomes from an acquittal.

So I, for one, am glad the legal system worked as it should. And, on the positive side, it's entirely possible that this successful prosecution will encourage other D.A.s to charge abortion doctors with murder when they kill newborns. And perhaps it will encourage other states to pass laws regulating those "health" abortions in the third trimester.

But what's most remarkable about this case is that the media has been shamed into covering it. And for the first time, we are seeing photographs of the victims in the mainstream media. There will be at least one documentary about this case, and perhaps a book or two as well.; 5/13/13, 6:06 PM
Hagar said...: As I remember it, the Black population of the U.S. was steadily quoted as being a bit over 13% of the total population. I now see it being quoted as about 11%.
Also that Planned Parenthood clinics tend to be mostly in Black neighborhoods.
Any connection?; 5/13/13, 6:30 PM
traditionalguy said...: Murdering the weak and the helpless provokes a curse from God that brings the wrath of God on men. Amalekites beware. And that includes their Death Panelist Malthusian enablers.; 5/13/13, 6:31 PM
Saint Croix said...: The squirming language of the New York Times reporter has the peverse effect of making Dr. Gosnell seem like just another abortion doctor.

All he did was murder a fetus!

If you can get convicted for murdering a fetus, then lots of other people might get convicted for murdering a fetus too.

Obviously, the way to write about this case is to be aghast that Gosnell was killing newborns, thus signifying that he was not like all those other abortion doctors.

Either the NYT thinks that killing newborns is pretty much the same as killing the unborn, or they are reverting to their Orwellian rhetoric out of mindless habit.

They don't know how to talk about this case. They don't know how to think about it. All they know is they want it to go away.

See this report from the Gosnell trial.

An hour into afternoon testimony, Jon Hurdle of The New York Times showed up, and a few minutes later was gone.; 5/13/13, 6:47 PM
Saint Croix said...: He was also acquitted of third-degree murder in the death of a 41-year-old patient but was found guilty of a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter in that case.

Imagine the New York Times writing that he was convicted for killing a gravida!; 5/13/13, 7:05 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Dante:

I'm extremely conflicted about the death penalty in general (there clearly are people who just shouldn't be in society, but still...), but in his case--I think I'd be in favor of execution.

I'm mostly pro-choice (also pro-life, LOL)--but yanking a living baby out and stabbing it in the neck is pure evil and should be punished as such.; 5/13/13, 7:05 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/13/13, 7:20 PM
n.n said...: There are reasons why abortion/choice was normalized. With the advent of the sexual revolution and feminism generally, women were required to remain available for sex, taxation, and democratic leverage. It also served to continue the older effort of eugenics (abortion of unwanted or inconvenient human lives), but through "voluntary" compliance.

Without consideration for human rights, but with consideration of equal protection, if there was brain activity, then every abortion was an act of premeditated murder. Both Gosnell and the mothers are guilty of crimes committed against the individual, society, and humanity.

Left-wing ideology is notable for its principles which denigrate individual dignity and devalue human life. It is designed to consolidate capital and power in select minorities' hands. It's foundation is quite literally a philosophy of death (e.g. redistributive change, "diversity" - denigration of individual dignity, normalization of dysfunctional behaviors - violation of evolutionary fitness). Over one hundred million in the 20th century alone. There is a reason why monopolies, especially when established and enforced through deception or force, are strictly scrutinized in civilized societies.; 5/13/13, 7:29 PM
BaltoHvar said...: As for PP's role in this particular case, they completely disregarded an opportunity to get out in front and rebuke Gosnell's “practice” and vow to insure none like his remained nor would ever happen again. Ground lost due to this horror will be difficult to regain. They could have demanded clinical regulation and inspection, and perhaps traded that for virtually unlimited access. They went all in, said NOT WORD ONE until perhaps after the fact, and will pay. For that I am thankful.

As for the Sentence – I wish I could say I would hope that we could bring back Public Burnings, maybe start slow with a bag of charcoal, then slowly add a little fuel now and again just to keep the flames licking his feet and searing the skin. Then invite anyone to ad logs until his carcass is turned into a dusty cinder. But that would be cruel and unusual, but justice served.

I watched the video “3801 Lancaster” on You Tube. Let me tell you, the “victims” were horribly A) ignorant, and B) incredibly naive about the possible consequences. Further, one woman interviewed had MULTIPLE abortions, using the “Clinic” as birth-control, and thought little of it at the time. Now she looks back and realizes her mistakes only too late.; 5/13/13, 7:33 PM
Sunslut7 said...: May he burn in Hell for all of eternity.; 5/13/13, 7:42 PM
test said...: Dante said...
I'm curious whether those who support the death penalty whether you think Gosnell should be put to death for these murders?

Yes.; 5/13/13, 7:56 PM
Saint Croix said...: Abortion is tricky because we are talking about the very beginning of human development. In Roe v Wade, Justice Blackmun writes, "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins."

I am horrified by the Supreme Court's carelessness. But I nonetheless agree that it is a difficult question.

Is this a baby?

Imagine you are on a jury and you are asked to convict a doctor for murder for terminating a very tiny infant.

I am upset and appalled even by very early abortions. As are pro-choice people, which is why we do not see photographs of very early abortions in the mainstream media. So these abortions are bad--that's why they are censored.

But are they murder? Should we give the abortionist--or the aborting mom--the electric chair?

(I'm opposed to the death penalty, so that question is easy for me!)

To me the most damning part of Roe v. Wade was the failure to even grapple with the baby's life. They stripped her of her humanity throughout the pregnancy, defining her as sub-human property.

This includes Baby Boy A, who was 30 weeks gestation. While in the uterus the baby was still sub-human, still property, according to our legal authorities.

Yet the baby's humanity was recognized by the police and the prosecutors. The baby's humanity was recognized by ordinary people. Even some in the media saw it! And, finally, the baby's humanity was recognized by the jury. And so Dr. Gosnell was convicted of murder for aborting this child.

In essence, Gosnell was convicted on a technicality. The baby was on the operating table instead of inside the birth canal. For some people, I suppose the born/unborn distinction remains paramount. And so this case causes no qualms at all. But for the rest of us, this case is a rebuke to 40 years of Supreme Court caselaw.

Defining the baby as sub-human is what led to these atrocities.; 5/13/13, 8:01 PM
Unknown said...: Dante

Yes; 5/13/13, 8:56 PM
RJ said...: Basically you're argument is that woman MUST take Plan B every time we have sex.

...

Really how many women have sex enough times a month to make contraception a worth while investment?

I think you have to choose between one or the other of these arguments.; 5/13/13, 11:26 PM
William said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/14/13, 9:59 AM