"My grandmother was offered a pension and she was offended. She did not need it. But now people do not have that mentality. They think of these benefits as their rights. The rights have just expanded and expanded. And it has brought us a good quality of life. But now we need to go back to the rights and the duties. We all have to contribute."
Denmark reconsiders the welfare state.
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People. Bet there are millions of people who haven't jumped on the Social Security Disability bandwagon. Ya know, all those retrograde bitter clingers. Well, a lot of 'em anyway.
Denmark went off the rails years ago with the furniture that needs to be oiled.
Quietly, SS Disability has become MUCH easier to get under Obama. It's not only the welfare state, but also a crumb for the SS disability attorneys, who are the same level as DUI barristers.
"Denmark went off the rails years ago with the furniture that needs to be oiled."
Nice mixed metaphor.
Interesting that the article says virtually nothing about how all of this is paid for. The high taxes don't sound that high--in the US, with the full mix of federal, state, local, medicare, social security, etc., etc., etc., the middle class person pays well over 50%.
Their system sounds ruinously expensive, where is the money coming from? (Serious question, but please, only answer if you know.)
Remarkable. Yesterday in a conversation with my husband, I was talking about similar stuff. My first trip out of India was to Holland; Den Haag is where we lived for about a year. We lived in a nice modern apartment but had to use a laundry facility across the street which was very nice. It was maintained by an elderly woman and her daughter. What struck me about the woman was how contented she seemed; made a big impression on me that I remember to this day. She was not rich by any means working in that laundry facility but she seemed contented as her basic needs were taken care of and taken care of well. Lack of greed may have something to do with her demeanor too, I guess. Why have we become all so greedy?
They think of these benefits as their rights.
Well, we have that problem in America too. When you institutionalize this thinking via law, that you have "benefits" for 40+ years, of course people are going to think of it that way.
I have a huge problem even calling these things "benefits" in the 1st place...
The high taxes don't sound that high
It is very high.. Talking to a guy from there a couple of years ago -- everybody has to work to pay the taxes. I remarked at least that everybody has a job.
You start to run out of other people's money, too.
Somewhere, Lady T smiles.
PS Anent last night's discussion of what Constitutional rights were or were not violated, we have in the quote, "They think of these benefits as their rights. The rights have just expanded and expanded".
Funny how rights are now what the state makes them, when they make them, and when they are no longer rights.
It seems that everybody does not have a job. Most body's are contentedly living off of the labor of a few bodies. Like a bunch of tapeworms.
That's the point I tried to make in your Amanda Palmer post: The problem is not that people don't ask: the problem is that too many ask for more than they deserve.
(the other kev)
Math is hard. Also unforgiving.
Hopefully the pendulum is starting to swing the other way though we probably will never have a truly free market system. If we and other countries can get a better balance of less government and more productive participation from able body workers along with better technology, maybe we can solve our problems without a worldwide collapse and the resulting misery, I hope, I wish.
That grandmother probably hadn't been contributing to a plan or a program and the company announced one as a retirement gift. When you put 13% of your money into a program year in and year out, you expect to get it back.`
Oh no! Cracks appear in Northern Eutopia.
edutcher beat me to the punch with the Thatcher quote. Like (the other) Kev says, math is unforgiving. (But it doesn't explain everything--like how Donny & Marie Osmond got a national prime-time TV Variety Show. LOL)
tim maguire said...
Their system sounds ruinously expensive, where is the money coming from? (Serious question, but please, only answer if you know.)
Big payroll taxes and a 25% VAT
That NYT reporter neglected part of the story:
http://tinyurl.com/cjalmcf
There is the mess in Europe and even Denmark is starting to question a too generous government (other people's money) as Obama and the Dems apparently look the other way as they proceed merrily on their way to a European like socialist welfare state.
I hope some diligent reporter digs and digs an writes a story about the bountiful govt benefits America and Taxachusetts bestowed on the bombers and their family in the last ten years.
That's what liberals will never understand. Someone, somewhere-- perhaps you, dear liberal - will have to work so that someone, somewhere can sit on their ass and do nothing.
I'm not confident they can put that genie back in the bottle.
A few years back, I worked for a large multi-national firm that closed its US headquarters. The firm laid off a few thousand people in the process. I was struck by the range of responses to applying for Unemployment Benefits. I was in middle management, I had more than a year of salary in savings, and I figured (correctly) that I would find new employment fairly quickly. It never occurred to me to apply for Unemployment Benefits -- I didn't need them. In contrast, one of the VPs (whose base salary would have been in the $250-350k range) was complaining about how paltry his Unemployment Benefits were going to be. I told him that I wasn't applying for benefits, and he said I was a fool, because I was entitled to them. I knew several people who didn't apply for benefits because they thought that those benefits were for people "who really needed them," and they would have felt guilty for claiming benefits, even though they had paid into the benefit fund for many years. On the other hand, I knew a lot more people who were fairly well off, yet they bragged about all the things they would do with their benefits and the "time off," as though they were getting a paid vacation. I think I was more depressed about that than about losing my job.
Instead of offering disability, the government intends to assign individuals to “rehabilitation teams” to come up with one- to five-year plans that could include counseling, social-skills training and education as well as a state-subsidized job,
Every little step down the road to serfdom seems a reasonable response to the immediate circumstance when considered only in that context. But when you review the series of steps taken over generations the path and negative implications become clear. Now they're moving on to shaming and social pressure. If only someone could have predicted that.
Shocked. Utterly. Wait. Nope. Not.
Remember Cinderella Man, with Russel Crowe? Taking charity and/or unemployment was considered a failure on his part. He was deeply ashamed to do it and was an offense to his pride as a man.
After he won his fight, he marched back into the unemployment office and payed back the money that was given to him.
And this was during the great depression.
In the US and probably Denmark too, don't forget that *social services* spends a lot of time getting the word out about available benefits, and assuring people that it's their right, be sure to file your app right away, etc.
They're the ones pushing this dope, and they're the ones who warn their clients when the government might cut them off. Of course, they want to justify their own existence, and secure their jobs.
I wonder how widespread the welfare state would be, were it not for this constant advocacy by the not disinterested apparatchiks of the welfare state.
My daughter did a study abroad semester last year in Denmark. She was schocked at how high the taxes were on ordinary working people and how expensive everything there is. But that is from an American perspective. More interesting was the amazement of her roomate from Paris who found Denmark to be hideously expensive.
The ending of socialism.......”not with a bang but a whimper”?
Is the rest of Europe watching, considering?
Danish economy from CIA World Factbook
Thanks Drill Sgt., I shouldn't be surprised. There, as here, when they talk about tax rates, they're only talking about some of the taxes. A full accounting would probably shock even your average liberal (who know their own taxes are too high--it's only the rich who don't pay enough).
Jay said...
They think of these benefits as their rights.
I have a huge problem even calling these things "benefits" in the 1st place...
The real problem is there in America, they call these benefits "entitlements." It's a lot harder to reduce something that someone believes they're entitled to (for what reason, I don't know) than a benefit.
tim maguire said...
There, as here, when they talk about tax rates, they're only talking about some of the taxes.
Yes, to hear them talk, the only tax people pay is federal income tax. Man, if that were only the case. Here's a partial list of the taxes my wife and I pay:
Federal income tax
Social Security tax
Medicare tax
State income tax
Property tax
Sales tax (>8% on everything)
Gasoline tax
Utilities taxes for each type of service
Taxes and fees (same difference) on phone and Internet access
Vehicle use tax
Those are just the ones that come quickly to mind.
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