Another egregious example of GOP types who gush with embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person who says some conservative things.
I have 2 problems with Ben Carson:
1. He had the opportunity to speak at a prayer breakfast with President Obama alongside him on the dais, and he used it to deliver a political lecture. I don't think that's right. Whatever your opinion of Obama's politics or the process by which he became President — which included plenty of embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person— he is the President, and — especially at a formal occasion like this — he deserves the respect embodied in the office of the President.
2. Ben Carson read a speech. It was a good speech — though, as noted above, it was not appropriate for the occasion — but it was a written speech. Carson is a pediatric neurosurgeon, not an economist or a health care policy wonk or a speechwriter. We don't know what contribution he made to the writing of the speech. I don't know how that speech got into his hands, but once he had that position on the dais at the prayer breakfast, those hands were very valuable hands in which to put a speech. Who is the speechwriter? If it was Carson himself, alone, I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised.
February 10, 2013
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
314 comments:
1 – 200 of 314 Newer› Newest»I think you concern yourself too much with PR.
If he had read it off a teleprompter would you have thought him brilliant?
Some have made that mistake with other public speakers...
Why? Do you think he's not capable of writing such a speech?
For what it's worth I agree that Republicans are sometimes beyond silly when it comes to embracing the latest minority conservative. They almost always get burned. Republicans need to committ to conservative principles once and for all time, but that can't happen as long as they are more political than they are conservative.
Republican Party politics is losing many conservatives even though there are few places for conservatives to go.
I have no problem believing he wrote the speech. It was crass to lecture the President at a prayer breakfast, thereby negating the impact his speech could've made with fair minded independents, given in another venue.
Whose bright idea was it that he give this speech THERE?
You can be really dopey sometimes. You think people like Brian Williams or Diane Sawyer of Ali Velsher are trained economists or trained in anything other than resding the news? Because they never miss an opportunity to lecture us about stuff on which they have no credentials.
And do you view Obama as a king? Will contrary ideas and thoughts hurt his highness?
It doesn't matter.
We need Coolidge, we got Carter.
These voices in the wilderness might as well be ghosts. The state of Virginia is cutting its part-time employees to 29 hours or fewer per week because it can't afford the Obamacare regs.
More shoes to fall very very soon. So these little victories are just ankle-biting. Nothing will come of it.
Rah. Rah..
Bu bu but but Ann! What about _______________???????
Needless to say the disconnect between speech giver and speechwriter is not more pronounced than with the person two seats to Dr. Carson's right.
I have no problems with Ben Carson.
Political calculations are universal. Dems and liberals are just as transparent, but not as accountable.
On the whole that's a good thing for conservative principles, but it's hell on wheels politically.
ObamaCare is a disaster. It's worth pointing that out at a prayer breakfast. Pray for mercy.
What, Pres. Obama can sandbag the Justices during a SotU or Republican committee chairmen during a speech on budget priorities, but Dr. Carson can't sandbag the President at a Prayer Breakfast?
Because...Shut up?..and...oh, can't say 'Racism'.
Sauce for the goose, I say.
The president, in person, deserves exactly has much respect as he shows others, in person.
Such as the members of the Supreme Court during a State of the State speech in which he publicly pissed over the court for its "Citizen United" ruling.
Shorter Tim: Fuck Obama. He's earned it.
Liberals including HRH Obama have no compunction about "lecturing" us in any venue at any time. I think you are being a bit lawyerly in your comments, then again, maybe the good doctor hit a nerve with his comments about lawyers. I say good for him.
"Whose bright idea was it that he give this speech THERE?"
Where else would it get covered and not covered up? With a compliant media people have to use the opportunities they find to get an unfiltered message out there.
'Cause Lord knows, Democrats never gush over a well-spoken black man who says what they want to hear.
A Republican pee in your Wheaties this morning, Althouse?
There's something to be said for respect for the office, but Obama has consistently used that office to scold those whose views differ from his. Remember "bitter clingers?"
Perhaps if he treated citizens and the constitution with a little respect he would get more respect himself.
It takes real guts and strength to advocate for policies that benefit you, and hurt others.
But, seemingly out of nowhere, comes a real visionary. Dr Ben Carson! Moar please!
Carson's ideas are sound but not herd. Thus he too must be destroyed.
I think it's hilarious how the media fall into their tired and biased "how dare he not worship the precious!" method of coverage. A black man dared to question their almighty do-no-wrong king.
But Republicans gave the nomination to a man who describes 47% of Americans as "takers".
Bitter clingers was mild compared to that.
Oh, come on.
The Lefties have been making a big thing about "Speaking Truth to Power" for 50 years.
Didn't Little Zero, in his most petulant fashion do the exact same thing to SCOTUS at the SOTU? Or Eric Cantor and John McCain with, "I WON"?
He may be POTUS, but, Evan Thomas notwithstanding he's not "sort of God" and he sure as Hell ain't no Second Coming (except maybe in Thomas' drawers).
Now he gets a little of his own medicine.
If you want to go all maternal and say, "Just because he does it doesn't make it right", you'd have a point, but you're not saying that. You object to the idea this was at a prayer breakfast. You might want to note that Barack the Magic Negro was being his usual hypocritical self by lamenting divisiveness in the country while he's been noted far and wide (and also by you) as the most divisive POTUS since James Buchanan.
I think the editors of the WSJ are nominating the sentiment, rather than the man (remember Ollie North for President after he told off the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (IIRC)?), so I agree a little with you there, but, much as it pains me, I do have to agree with the She-Wolf of the SS and say you have no reason to believe Dr Carson is incapable of writing that speech all by himself unless you are intimately familiar with his record as a public speaker.
Inga said...
I have no problem believing he wrote the speech. It was crass to lecture the President at a prayer breakfast, thereby negating the impact his speech could've made with fair minded independents, given in another venue.
Don't ever call me a syncophant or trained seal again, sweetie.
Perfectly appropriate and well done. We get to see Barry nervously checking his Blackberry! Everything this President does is scripted so it's good to see him uncomfortable once in a while. Apparently, it also makes Candy Crowley uncomfortable!
Althouse: "Carson is a pediatric neurosurgeon, not an economist or a health care policy wonk or a speechwriter."
...the majority of great reformers in American history did their work not just because it was sound policy, or they had done good analysis, or understood how to exercise good politics, but because their faith and their values dictated it, and called for bold action -- sometimes in the face of indifference, sometimes in the face of resistance.
-- President Obama, National Prayer Breakfast, 2013.
Althouse: "We don't know what contribution he made to the writing of the speech. I don't know how that speech got into his hands, but once he had that position on the dais at the prayer breakfast, those hands were very valuable hands in which to put a speech. Who is the speechwriter? If it was Carson himself, alone, I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised."
Dare I suggest saying the same about Obama would have invited the label "racist"?
The America we once knew and loved is being blown away by obama. He deserves no respect. He is rarely in a situation where he has to listen to any truth, and I am glad he had to sit through that speech.
Carson was not a community organizer and therefore unqualified to be president. Your concern for Obama's feelings sounds phony. How about his abuse of the Supreme Court at the SOTU speech?
Why would you be surprised if Carson wrote his speech ? Not white enough to have those thoughts ? You really need to get out more. You might even attend a doctor meeting once in a while.
Inga said...
But Republicans gave the nomination to a man who describes 47% of Americans as "takers".
Bitter clingers was mild compared to that.
No, O She-Wolf of the SS.
Bitter clingers was hypocritical.
The 47% was statistically accurate.
I realize you can't tell the difference.
wow, I am angered by your post beyond reason. speechwriter, written speech, who wrote that speech!..did you even see the video? This was his fourth or so speech that week.. he speaks a lot and the things he said were spontaneous, humorous, engaging.. what the hell are you talking about? This analysis is demeaning to your position of an academic and of higher insight.
As to lecturing Obama, as usual you bought the lefty meme. If he was lecturing Obama, Michelle Obama was one happy customer, if not just opportunistic applauding enthusiastically at all the lines that sounded idealistic and noble (which she knows will play well for her dingbat supporters).
I am sorry to see that a good guy like Dr. Carson is getting such a shabby treatment from you. I wish you had stayed out of it altogether like you wanted to do before. This is worse.
Ann, sometimes your density is profound.
Silly Inga, I guess you missed Sen Obama's ask not what you can do for your country--ask what your country can do for you speech right after Katrina.
Althouse: ...who gush with embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person who says some conservative things.
The Professor sees "Raised by a single mother in inner-city Detroit... and automatically assumes "black". Shame on her.
Me, I had to google for a picture of the man.
So, you view the President as a victim of bad manners?
And you suspect this apparently earnest doctor of being someone else's tool?
Really?
So, Ann, were you as critical of Eric Metaxas at his moment with President Obama at the prayer breakfast?
Edutcher, you are the only sychophant commenter here. If I happen to agree with Althouse on occasion, I am free to say so. I have often disagreed with her and said so. I think you are very dissapointed to see your dear Althouse veer from your idea of what she is or should be, a clone of "The Blond". LMAO, Ed you're a silly man.
I seem to remember little nut sack Barry ripping one of the Supreme Court Justices. I can't remember the occasion, but it was in front of a lot of people. What goes around...
Again it's retarded to keep arguing about this but describing someone who receives in net more money from the government than they pay in as a "taker" is not anywhere as offensive as claiming to that people who believe in Christianity (in other words Barack's brothers in Christ allegedly) do so entirely because their steel mill closed down.
The most offensive part of the clingers remark is that for political advantage Obama often invokes Christianity himself. In effect he criticized as a weakness something he claims for himself. It's safe to say that Mitt pays alot more than he gets back.
For those of you too lazy or short of time to watch the entire video, Metaxas called for an end to abortions and led the group in singing Amazing Grace.
Ann, worse or better than Carson?
Obama deserves mockery. The majesty of the office comes from the respect the occupant gives it, which is entirely narcissistic these days.
There's nothing economically difficult in Carson's speech. It's common sense often found in white people, and not surprising in black people.
What's surprising is that a black person dares to say it.
Black people have appointed black leaders who tell them what can be said and not said, and what grudge to bear, and what chip on the shoulder to have.
Puncture that, then go into majesty.
...thereby negating the impact his speech could've made with fair minded independents, given in another venue.
...the palace media would have ignored it.
Best venue for this, and the President can't hide behind his podium and teleprompter as he did when he sandbagged the Supremes during the SotU.
Carson was being polite and circumspect. He could have said "You've got your head up your arse on taxes and the health bill is nonsense." but preferred to give alternative examples.
And as one who follows scripture closely and believes in its applicability to daily life and the political sphere, I think Carson hewed very true to the scriptures he quoted.
There is a strong biblical basis for opposing punitive redistribution and grabs for ever-greater power over a fundamental aspect of people's ordinary lives.
If you doubt me, Ann, and others ... what the hell do you think the prophets were all about?
When you have the inside track into the type of taxation system that God would prefer us to enact, you don't have an obligation to respect the "dignity" of anyone's office. Just go for it.
He had the opportunity to speak at a prayer breakfast with President Obama alongside him on the dais, and he used it to deliver a political lecture.
This remark isn't stupid, necessarily, but it indicates a failure to perform the most cursory research into the nature of keynote speeches at the National Prayer Breakfast.
Here's an excerpt from Bono's (yes!) speech in 2006:
Preventing the poorest of the poor from selling their products while we sing the virtues of the free market… that's a justice issue. Holding children to ransom for the debts of their grandparents… That's a justice issue. Withholding life-saving medicines out of deference to the Office of Patents… that's a justice issue.
What made him an expert on the long-term consequences of suspending patents on the demands of a pop singer?
A lot less than what informs Dr. Carson's views on education and health care, I'd say.
But, oh no, our hapless president--who delegates the Gutsy Calls™ that have to be made after 5 PM--cannot be challenged in public, ever. Who knows what might damage his fragile psyche?
I agree Althouse, so you can you stop quoting similar unproven people at the NYT? At least this guy has the ideology right, which is paramount to people who want things fixed and not just entertaining.
Who is the speechwriter? If it was Carson himself, alone, I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised."
Did you even read what you wrote here? He is a bloody neurosurgeon and his IQ is probably orders of magnitude more than yours. If you can keep up with this blog, he can write his own speech, especially if it is about his own life experiences and opinions, spoken freely without hesitation.
Several have pointed out the President is leading the way in lecturing people in venues not suited to the lecturing.
"But...But..but he did if first!!!" is not a viable response.
Please, how else are conservatives supposed to set the dialogue? Leftist like Obama are exempt from old fashioned notions of respect and good manners, in fact when they (Obama) goes off on SCOTUS they are reward by low information voters. Low information voters have no clue how crass it is for the President to lecture SCOTUS in public.
On a side note I am starting to believe that Inga is a false flag. Perpetrated by a misguided Republican in hopes of making all libs look bad. Because really,, can someone be that stupid? Fair minded independents? Is that code now for 'low information voter'?
The undue enthusiasm for black conservatives is a direct reaction to the constant media drumbeat of the GOP as racist and the party of white people. I agree it is somewhat embarrassing, but really they're damned if they do, damned if they don't as far as promoting black Republicans is concerned.
"He had the opportunity to speak at a prayer breakfast with President Obama alongside him on the dais, and he used it to deliver a political lecture. I don't think that's right. ...he is the President, and — especially at a formal occasion like this — he deserves the respect embodied in the office of the President."
I agree. And no better example of such respect for office than that of President Obama at the State of the Union address where he scolded the Supreme Court.
blah, blah, blah... two wrongs don't make a right. Yes they do!
See what you made us do?
Althouse: CTRL+F "black" to see where the WSJ editorial board embraced Dr. Carson because he is black.
...he deserves the respect embodied in the office of the President.
I agree in principle with "respect the office if not the officer". But there can come a point when an office has been so degraded that to observe that principle is to degrade oneself.
I think that point was reached before Obama showed up. Not as if he's being doing anything to slow or reverse the decline, though.
When you have the inside track into the type of taxation system that God would prefer us to enact
And Jesus was a socialist, or so my Facebook friends have told me.
I don't agree with his policy prescriptions, but jesus, the speech wasn't inappropriate by a long shot.
If Obama can't sit there quietly and listen to criticism of his policies (which he did), he is truly too thin-skinned to be president.
Gosh,
From your description Dr. Carson sounds much like the president: probably didn't write his own speech, not qualified to comment on economic matters involving medicine, and using an inappropriate venue to deliver the message.
Well, maybe. Although I'd bet that Dr. Carson is far more qualified on most counts than the president and has written more books than the president in any case.
I was pleased to see the only long term viable paradigm for health care reform get such a prominent hearing.
Now it's out there on the table, right in the middle as Obamacare crashes all around it. There's still hope now where previously there was none.
Carson for President is a little silly. Carson for Secretary of HHS would be right on the money.
phx
I thought the same thing.
What she made us do makes me happy and restores a lot of my faith in people to get it right when an injustice is committed.
Ok, Freder, I take most of those mean things I said about you back.
And Jesus was a socialist, or so my Facebook friends have told me.
I'm sure a number of your socialist friends think so.
The undue enthusiasm for black conservatives...
...stems for the undue way they are treated when they reveal themselves.
My hypothesis is that the juxtaposition of common sense and religion deeply offended Althouse, Inga, and phx.
Iowan, I had to use independents as an example of a group that has the ability to be fair minded, because both ends of the spectrum, liberals and conservatives alike, more often than not, are reactionaries to anything that doesn't fit their world/ political view.
For you not to understand this without me explaining it, spelling it out, once again proves that you react stupidly.
What's surprising is that a black person dares to say it
What's daring about advocating for a tax policy that benefits you personally?
he wasn't the one giving a prayer at a prayer breakfast.
the speech's main points were not politics. it was one man citing problems and his suggested solutions; solutions which he has seen work in his experience.
Perhaps if the President had sat down with a variety of doctors from different disciplines and hashed out a plan for healthcare with their input on how to make it more affordable and increase access while the law was being crafted rather than ignoring them completely and leaving legislation to be written with the input of every lobbying group even remotely associated with the healthcare industry, then a distinguished doctor wouldn't have used his one chance to say "you pretty much ignored my profession in crafting the largest legislative takeover of an industry in 100 years, despite my profession being at the heart of said industry."
And you may find it egregious, but it's a great PR move because it pits a distinguished black man against the President and basically says "your work is not making the lives of the average american better." without the stigma of him being a sellout as minority conservative politicians are often labelled. It was an inappropriate time to say it, but someone from the outside of the political world needed to say "the emperor has no clothes."
You know if you didn't tell me he was Black, I wouldn't have known, nor cared. This is why it never dies. Shut up about race already. The more we talk about it, the stupider our decisions get.
Inga said...
Edutcher, you are the only sychophant commenter here. If I happen to agree with Althouse on occasion, I am free to say so.
Hah!
How many times has she slapped you down when your apple-polishing was so self-serving even she couldn't stand it anymore?
And, if I compare her to The Blonde, it's a compliment.
AllenS said...
I seem to remember little nut sack Barry ripping one of the Supreme Court Justices. I can't remember the occasion, but it was in front of a lot of people. What goes around...
And Scalia, bless his heart, mouthed, "Not true".
State of the Union speech about 2010, so it was with the whole country watching.
I think that's when people began to be turned off by him.
He notes at the beginning that he gives lots of speeches, obviously he's experienced and prepared.
Your post is totally offensive and ignorant. Do you even know who Benjamin Carson is? Do you know *anything* about him? If so, what on earth would cause you to question that he wrote his own speech? He's written countless books, and he's given countless speeches. His brilliance has been proven many times over. What's your motive, Ann?
Is there an inappropriate time to say the emperor has no clothes?
Doc Holliday's Hat said...
-------------
Good comment.
And Scalia, bless his heart, mouthed, "Not true".
Wasn't that Alito?
The health savings account idea is a policy suggestion. Are all policy suggestions political? I suppose so. But if you're going to call an expressed thought on policy political and therefore inappropriate at an event that is not specifically political (though the president did get to mouth the platitudes that score him political points) aren't you getting dangerously close to telling the lay public to shut up and leave policy to the politicians?
My hypothesis is that the juxtaposition of common sense and religion deeply offended Althouse, Inga, and phx.
Offended, nah? But I am amused by people who invoke God for either their Grammy awards or for endorsing tax policies apart from "Render unto Caesar".
Who is the speechwriter? If it was Carson himself, alone, I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised.
Because he's black, right? You say that it is important to not get too enthusiastic about anything a black leader could do. That, apparently, is an honor reserved for such accomplished entities as Sarah Palin.
The rest of your post is the typically predictable bullshit.
Anyway, Ben Carson's books, starting with Gifted Hands average 4.5 stars on Amazon. (Unfortunately - or perhaps for the sake of my own integrity, fortunately - I don't link to a self-promotional portal for perusing those things. Other priorities and such). But let's go ahead and pretend that any recognition he's achieved is phony, or due to "embarrassing enthusiasm" about his, you know, being black.
But of course, it would be wrong to impute any racist inklings to that attitude of yours. Your pride wouldn't allow for that, I bet.
Edutcher, you are once again using a thread to fight some weird personal war with me. It's beyond boring already. Why don't you stay on topic?
His speech was in no way disrespectful. I challenge you to find and quote one disrespectful thing he said.
What's daring about advocating for a tax policy that benefits you personally?
I'll take 'enlightened self-interest' over 'good intentions' any day.
People who advocate tax policies that don't benefit them often have the bulk of their wealth already sheltered in charitable trusts.
wow, what came over you, Ritmo? You make almost perfect sense.
{And BTW, could you stop engaging Inga or whatever.. I find her the most irritating commenter on this board}
If Obama can't sit there quietly and listen to criticism of his policies (which he did), he is truly too thin-skinned to be president.
Agreed.
I think this is why reactionaries hate Obama so much. THe left and the rest don't care a fig about such fixings and trappings as "the dignity of the office". They don't give a fuck about status. That's for the reich-wingers.
And they criticize Obama plenty. Criticism is not something they have a problem with. It's not something they're afraid of. It's something they know how to engage legitimately.
But recht-wingers cannot. They are just upset that "their" office is "occupied". They are so incensed at not having that "honor", and their feeble attempts at criticism completely fall apart into the dissembling fulminations of those who just don't have access to the same entitlement and expectations of unearned power that they once did.
Pm317, why don't you be an example to Ed?
"That's why there's 602 banks in the Caymans."
Garage missed this point, apparently.
Another egregious example of GOP types who gush with embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person who says some conservative things.
Link to five more examples?
Nothing came over me. I'm just here to disabuse conservatives of the notion that Obama can't be criticized.
I think they confuse criticism of what he can or should do with criticism of who or what(?) he is and what office he holds and what party he is. But that doesn't mean he can't be criticized for what he does have the power to do anything about.
Althouse: Another egregious example of GOP types who gush with embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person who says some conservative things.
I recall during election silly season Althouse's "ugly" reaction to posts about black people and obamaphones, yet here she does it herself.
Shame, shame, shame.
I never heard of Carson but I think it was fine.
It's good to listen to other viewpoints. I don't give a shit where the venue is located.
tits.
Rarely do I disagree with you Professor but on this one you're wrong. That's what me gut tells me.
FredwinaD said...
Your post is totally offensive and ignorant. Do you even know who Benjamin Carson is?
Yeah.. I want to know her motive too because this post is just too offensive and ignorant. She didn't stop at chiding GoP for their gushing but went on to insult and impugn the Doctor. WHY?
I think a diversity of view can be really hot during sex.
Suck my fucking ho your GOP Proud Member.
I will suck your cock you fucking commie-that can be hot.
Since Doctor Carson rebuked Mr. Obama at a prayer breakfast, the "preaching" was consistent with the New Testament---As per the passage provided below.
===================================
2 Timothy 4:2
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."
Why is his speech inappropriate?
He was speaking his mind. He talked about God's fairness, freedom of expression (allowed in our Constitution, by the way), healthcare.
What is wrong with talking about topics that he cares about all his life? Or was he supposed to be pc, not talked about things that were disagreeable to a black president?
He has never said a thing against the president, or lied.
Unlike some president who lied about a Supremes' judicial decision in their faces knowing that they could not reply. That was inappropriate.
Are we only allowed to kiss the president's ass because he's black?
Ann - I disagree with you on this. As at least one other commenter has pointed out, the Eric Metaxas speech last year could be criticized as being similarly inappropriate for the occasion. But I was thrilled by both speeches. Both speeches had a linkage between the political points being made and the spiritual realm. I.e., they were not naked political expositions in a spiritual setting.
Two additional points on this. First, a speech at a prayer breakfast is the equivalent of a sermon in a church or synagogue. Sermons are (at least in some quarters) expected to be challenging to the congregation. They are not required to be rah rah "everything is great" speeches. Second, I might have slightly greater sympathy for your argument if it were not for the fact that this President has had no compunction about lecturing anyone with whom he disagrees about anything at any time (the Supreme Court in the State of the Union being the most egregious example).
Ritmo, I only concur with your post at 2/10/13, 11:45 AM.. that you had the right thing to say about Ann's post about Ben Carson.. Everything else I don't much care.
"That's why there's 602 banks in the Caymans."
Speaking of which, Pres. Obama's first SecTreas didn't pay his taxes, and now the man nominated to replace him didn't pay his taxes, either.
Blogger garage mahal said...
"What's surprising is that a black person dares to say it
What's daring about advocating for a tax policy that benefits you personally?"
That's twice you have made the statement that health savings accounts benefit Carson personally. What is your evidence ? I'm sure that Carson receives a large salary from Johns Hopkins and, in fact, the issue of surgeon's salaries is often a source of contention in faculty meetings. The non-surgical specialties resent the fact that surgeons' salaries are often higher than theirs even though the surgeon tends to generate more income total for the faculty group.
Obamacare is doomed as a huge bureaucracy with perverse incentives that will not reduce utilization. Carson will do well financially because of his long period of study and work plus his native intelligence. Both concepts are foreign to you.
FTPC: 'Another egregious example of GOP types who gush with embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person who says some conservative things.'
Professor I expect better from you than this drivel.
The non-surgical specialties resent the fact that surgeons' salaries are often higher than theirs even though the surgeon tends to generate more income total for the faculty group.
well, those who are skilled at cutting brains up and mending it right ought to receive more than those who give us cough syrup (not countering you M.K just adding -- I know you are a doctor).
I agree that the speech was inappropriate to the occaision and that he did not show defference th the office of POTUS. But had it been Bush Carson would be courageus etc.
However just about any dotor could come up with a better plan than the "policy wonks".
Also it's got nothing to do with being Black. Nothing. It has to do with having balls. Balls and an articulate presentation of a policy. He could do it in Ebonics as long as it lays it out clearly.
Ritmo, I only concur with your post at 2/10/13, 11:45 AM.. that you had the right thing to say about Ann's post about Ben Carson.. Everything else I don't much care.
Of course not. Context, to you, is but a distraction. All that matters is the immediacy of a single tactic. And winning! Yes, winning. No matter the gain or loss over time. The short-term cocaine-fueld high of a former A-list actor whose roles are now restricted to turning his former self into a caricature. Testosterone in a test-tube, without so much as a body and mind for making any use of it. Purity.
I, OTOH, look at the whole picture.
I agree that the speech was inappropriate to the occaision and that he did not show defference th the office of POTUS. But had it been Bush Carson would be courageus etc.
However just about any dotor could come up with a better plan than the "policy wonks".
Also it's got nothing to do with being Black. Nothing. It has to do with having balls. Balls and an articulate presentation of a policy. He could do it in Ebonics as long as it lays it out clearly.
And had you actually read the entirety of the comment you did like, I hardly think you'd agree with all of that, either.
One is tempted to ask who is the real racist here? On the one hand we have people — like me — who see horrific, flesh-eating, dull-witted creatures with jagged feral teeth, venomous mouths, pointed devilish ears, and reptilian skin, and say, “Cool, Orcs!” On the other hand we have people, like Mr. Yatt, who see the same repugnant creatures and righteously exclaim “black people!”
On the one hand we have people — like me — who see "...director of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins and probably the most renowned specialist in his field." and say, “Cool, Dr. Benjamin Carson!” On the other hand we have people, like Althouse, who see "Raised by a single mother in inner-city Detroit..." and righteously exclaim “black people!”
I agree that the speech was inappropriate to the occaision and that he did not show defference th the office of POTUS. But had it been Bush Carson would be courageus etc.
However just about any dotor could come up with a better plan than the "policy wonks".
Also it's got nothing to do with being Black. Nothing. It has to do with having balls. Balls and an articulate presentation of a policy. He could do it in Ebonics as long as it lays it out clearly.
Never heard of Carson? Google him.
He's amazing. First ever to successfully separate craniopagus twins, twins conjoined at their heads. He is absolutely the role model for the American youths, black, white, and in-between.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carson
I think the adjective you are thinking of is "Uppity." Just sayn'
Obamacare is doomed as a huge bureaucracy with perverse incentives that will not reduce utilization.
Which incentives are "perverse" and how do they compare, in their perversity, to the incentives embedded in the current system?
By all means, let's see if an informed and reasoned debate on this with the partisans is at all possible.
Bring on the partisan participation to the logic-a-logue!
Presidents, and this president in particicular, are living in cocoons. The Press works exceedingly hard to protect him from dissent (e.g., why does Candy Crowley still have a job?). I don't like that this breakfast became the forum for common sense but if we can't have a discussion about personal responsibility at a National Prayer Breakfast, when can we? Further, this president runs from this sort of discussion. I don't know who the guy his - he may be the real deal or he may be Sarah Palin. I don't know. But even as a non-religious listener to the speech, I found it refreshing.
It was a prayer breakfast, not a kiss Obama's black ass breakfast. Maybe Obama shouldn't have been there. He should skip the next three. There's a reason that Obama didn't much care what the Reverend Wright had to say about other people.
he is the President, and ... he deserves the respect embodied in the office of the President
As they say in the military, you salute the rank, not the man.
I dont think you find yourself in church much, Professor. Modern churches of the main line denominations are arms of the progressive movement, the Democratic agenda wrapped in sermon after sermon. Thinly veiled if veiled at all. To hear a conservative making plain sense from the "pulpit" is surely shocking but it is in no way inappropriate even if it is unexpected.
Yeah, ALlen! Instead of attending, there should just be a mural of Obama. Either a small idol or a larger statue will do. Or just a projected hologram, no movement. Glorious in whatever still pose it was captured in. And a halo, of course... Every "prayer breakfast" could use one of those.
It's funny to see how far the wingers will take a tiny point of agreement here or there, as long as it can be used, no matter how pettily, against Obama.
What Ben Carson did was to say what needed to be said to Obama in his face.
I am surprised that Ann Althouse does not recall the bad behavior exhibited by Democrats on the occasion of the Paul Wellstone memorial and moderate her current criticism accordingly.
OTOH, a pediatric neurosurgeon certainly does have credentials when discussing Obamacare, does he not?
As they say in the military, you salute the rank, not the man.
Good. Obama's now handily won two elections for the highest office in the land.
Republicans wish they could salute that for the achievement it represents. But they can't, because they're too busy pretending that they live in a different country than the one they really do. A country with different needs, interests and priorities.
The respect they should give Obama comes at the price of accepting that they have lost a long-term handle on the country. On America. And on who we really are.
That's the Republican problem.
I refuse to believe that Althouse is being a raging hypocrite when it comes to respecting the office of the president.
However, I just did a google search and couldn't find an example of Althouse berating people for failing to respect the office of president when President Bush was in office.
Could someone link a couple of examples for me?
Not unprecedented:
At the 1973 National Prayer Breakfast (Hatfield and founder Doug Coe had become friends at Willamette University), Hatfield spoke shortly before President Richard Nixon, who had two weeks earlier ordered the ceasefire in Vietnam. "Today, our prayers must begin with repentance. … We must turn in repentance from the sin that scarred our national soul," Hatfield said. "Then we can soothe the wounds of war and renew the face of the earth and all mankind." The speech garnered headlines, with one reporter calling it "one of the most dramatic confrontations since the Prophet Nathan told King David, 'You are the man!'" And it got Hatfield placed on Nixon's "enemies list."
The President has spent the last four years speaking politically at times when he probably should not have been.
It's about damn time he got a taste of his own medicine (so to speak).
Ritmo, I thought you might be reflexively anti-Carson because he was not a Obama voting liberal. Glad to see you can appreciate a person like Carson regardless of his political persuasion.
OTOH, a pediatric neurosurgeon certainly does have credentials when discussing Obamacare, does he not?
No way, man, this guy has no business discussing Obamacare because he's not a "policy wonk" like Matty Yglesias or Ezra Klein. Everyone else just needs to STFU and color.
Gahrie - she probably just sets up different priorities for "even-handedness" based on partisan expectations. Republicans are about respecting titles, hence they should be encouraged to display that toward Democrats. And Democrats are about lapping up the circus-like rabble of humanity. Hence, they should praise Republicans when they act in a base and primitive way.
Of course, pm. I read Carson's little first book when I was either in middle school or high school. I haven't heard much from him since, knew little about his formal ideas regarding politics, and have no reason to think he doesn't deserve as much of a hearing now as he did then.
The only other thing I'd heard since was a short clip about ten years ago when he bitched about insurance companies. But which physician hasn't?
You wouldn't need a mural, O, an empty chair would suffice.
I'll dissent from Ritmo's 11:45 comment.
I read Althouse as saying that a neurosurgeon was presumably too busy to also be a policy wonk.
Now, I think that's wrong, but not necessarily racist.
It doesn't require a lot of specialized knowledge to understand why O'care is going to drive up insurance costs and reduce the overall quantity and quality of health care. A neurosurgeon understands this better than the average voter by a wide margin.
The ability of each of us to become policy wonks, or to figure out which wonks to rely on, is the ultimate foundation for democracy.
So, while I won't say Althouse's post is stupid or racist, I will say that it's fundamentally mistaken.
The Nutty Professor is not urging respect for the office of the President.
She is playing her old game of holding this "black president" to a different level of repect and deference not available to paler people.
That was what the "Obama-phone" thing was all about.
That is why almost any racial epithet is fine except the "N" word.
Some pigs are more equal than others.
Sharpen up losers!
@elkh1: Carson ... or Junius Groves, born in a slave cabin, he moved to Kansas as a free man, managed to rent a couple of acres, and began to grow potatoes. After a few years he had saved enough money to buy that land and rent some more.
In the end, he owned hundreds of acres, employed dozens of white people, and built what remains the largest home in Edwardsville, Kansas. When he died in 1925 -- the peak year for the KKK, btw -- white people came from as far as Chicago to honor him at the funeral.
Or Mary Bowser, who worked as a tremendously effective spy in the Confederate White House.
Or Maggie Walker, the first woman ever to own a bank. She was black. In 1901, and the bank exists to this day.
These, like Carson and Cain and Carver are the sorts of people who should be honored in "Black History Month". Not the pissers, moaners, and activists with chips on their shoulders.
She is just pulling the Kanye West card in honor of the Grammy's tonight.
In fact I expect a post bitch slapping Taylor Swift any minute now.
If you always have to show deference to the President in person, when can he hear dissent?
( in the UK, people fell free to challenge the Prime Minister, even in his presence)
Respect must be earned, and maintained, every day. This is true for teachers, judges, parents, children (Who need to learn this lesson before they are truly adults) and all others.
Yes, some are "issued" an initial quantum of "respect" by reason of their election or appointment to some position of authority. I suspect that you noted, as a student and teacher, teachers who threw away respect by incompetence, unjust behavior and other forms of misconduct. New York schools' "rubber rooms" are full of such.
Dr. Carson earns, day-by-day, respect with every surgical act AND with every word he speaks.
B.H. Obama has long-ago given away his respect as a person. He is now destroying the respect due democracy and the USA.
Remember Alan Keyes? Nah, me neither.
So, while I won't say Althouse's post is stupid or racist, I will say that it's fundamentally mistaken.
I think she unwittingly let slide a "token" trope here or there, but they weren't the points of her post.
And Carson's knowledge wasn't the only point, either. Remember that whole first part about being deferential.
I believe that respect comes in many shades. It's not an all-or-nothing thing. Same with criticism. Some criticism is vituperative, some is mild. Some blend into nothing more than a tiny particle of dissent.
My guess is that however Carson said what he said, it probably wasn't in an over-the-top way. I doubt he said anything in a way that Obama would have taken offense to, or that I would have.
BTW, on Hannity, when asked if he would run for president, the good doctor said that if he raised a nickel from everyone who is saying that to him, he would have a campaign ready. A Nickel! Take that Obama! A Nickel.
WSJ calling him to run for president is not all that far fetched -- why not? He is good at problem solving and he has the right motivation. An he has the right skin color too. If you think Democrats didn't prop Obama up for his skin color and peddled that like treasure, you are a fool. In fact for them his skin color became a better currency than the VJJJ of Hillary's. So which or who embarrasses you more, Ann?
"If Obama can't sit there quietly and listen to criticism of his policies (which he did), he is truly too thin-skinned to be president."
You've misdiagnosed the point of contention. It's the media that find it impossible to sit there quietly and listen to criticism of the president's policies. They've been covering for him for four years. Why should they be acting any different now? A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
(As an example of covering - Do you think that it would have taken them five months to discover the president was AWOL during the Benghazi attack if that president had been anyone else? They would have jumped all over the story if it hadn't been politically inconvenient to do so. Their "nothing to see here, move along" attitude is just more of the same protective, cocoon weaving.)
Your penchant for seeing so much through race-tinted glasses made me cringe *again.* However, putting aside your tired cliches on that topic, I'm most surprised that you'd be so insulting to the speaker, a distinguished an honored medical doctor and author.
Yes. That's right. In addition to writing over 100 peer-reviewed neurosurgical articles, Dr. Carson has written several best-selling books. His first was published over 16 years ago. This was in the same era that Obama published "Dreams from my Father ..." and his agents were plugging him as a rising star born in Kenya. Of course, Dr. Carson had accomplished a great deal by then while Obama had only managed to finish law school before he wrote(?) his autobiography. I met "Barry" once or twice in Hyde Park before he went to Law School when I was at UofC. I can assure you his accomplishments were meager.
Unlike Obama, who came from a privileged upper-middle-class background, Dr. Carson's story is truly inspirational.
It surprises me that you don't give this man credit for his ability to write and instead imply he's merely a puppet. That attitude towards him is demeaning and just makes you look foolish & ill-informed.
I'll admit that I was pleasantly surprised that you didn't use Dr. Carson's speech in another embarrassing ham-fisted attempt to earn pennies by hawking his book.
So when IS a good time to call that POS of a POTUS out on the carpet, Ann?
You might ask the same question of Obama's lickspittles in the media as well.
That buggardly carpetbagger has taken every advantage of affirmative action and political correctness and if you're miffed - it is in all honesty probably because you can't play the race card.
Sucks to get hoisted on your own petard doesn't it?
Yes, how dare someone say something mildly critical of our King, Obama!
Oh, Jesus!
A Sunday morning post that offers Ritmo the Retard the opportunity to screech about racism.
The perfect storm of stupidity and malice!
Althouse, please don't poke a stick at the rabid dogs.
Haven't you guys heard? Ritmo has devoted his life to the betterment of blacks, who he loves more than any other Retard on earth does. He would give his life for blacks, if only he knew one.
Like I said, this is the perfect storm of stupidity and malice! Let it rip, Ritmo the Retard!
My guess is that however Carson said what he said, it probably wasn't in an over-the-top way. I doubt he said anything in a way that Obama would have taken offense to, or that I would have.
I watched the whole video, and can say that you're right that he wasn't over the top at all. Most of what I remember from his speech was the story of how he came to value education. Very little was about health insurance. His overall theme was about not letting PC concerns prevent us from seeing and telling the truth.
It was completely appropriate to the setting, and well in line w/ previous keynote speeches at the prayer breakfast.
However, I'm not sure you're right about Obama not taking offense. At the end, when everyone else stood to applaud Dr. Carson, Obama was hunched over like Richard III and was the first to sit back down.
He seemed annoyed throughout the speech.
Byond Politics said...
It surprises me that you don't give this man credit for his ability to write and instead imply he's merely a puppet. That attitude towards him is demeaning and just makes you look foolish & ill-informed.
Dude you must be new here.
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!!!!!!!!
Althouse makes three points in her post.
The first - GOP type gushing - is a fair point.
The second - respect - seems to indicate a misunderstanding of the history of The National Prayer Breakfast and the role of the keynote speaker, as well as an unduly harsh interpretation of Carson's speech.
The third - qualification and sourcing - is, well, unworthy.
ByondPolitics said...
------------
yes to everything you said. And that is what surprises me also, why she would impugn and insult the doctor? And of all the things, his speechwriting?
I'd like to get close to Taylor Swift. And if that means bitch slapping her...so be it!
Why do you assume that Carson could not write his own speech? I saw no evidence that he was "reading" the speech, although I did see him refer to some notes. Almost all public speakers will have some notes or outlines to reference in case they get lost or start to digress from their point. There is nothing nefarious in this practice.
As to giving a, what YOU thought might be an inappropriate speech or overly political speech to Obama as a captured audience. HA HA HA HA....so what. Serves Obama right to have to sit and take it, since Obama has notoriously trapped others and berated, threatened and otherwise tried to intimidate them. The Supreme Court Justices come to mind.
The fact that Doctor Carson made much of his speech about the morality of the President's policies and other crushing political trends, such as the inability to criticize our political leaders, is much in line with the religious and moral theme of the meeting.
Also the emphasis on medical issues would be very much a concern of DOCTOR Carson.
I see no evidence that he did NOT write the speech. I also get the feeling that it is one, or parts of it are speeches that he has given on more than one occasion.
"Whose bright idea was it that he give this speech THERE?"
It was a bright idea and I would assume that DOCTOR Carson decided to give the speech.
Ann, a surprisingly weak post. I realize that we all have reactions that are somewhat hard-wired. But by the time we reach a certain age, we should long have lashed a controlling lanyard to our impulses that were annealed in the fires of the60's.
I'm often surprised by how well you write. But that's when I credit you with a wonderful gift. I'm not assuming that some toady first year is supplying you with material in order to curry favor when the ConLaw final is graded.
I admit that I have generally assumed that Rutter swiped his magnificent Gloria from a hapless grad student, but that was based on empirical evidence arising out of a comparison with his saccherinely sweet prior works. Still,in the end, I have to say he composed the masterpiece, and I credit him with a wonderful gift. If he were a black man, I'd surely be less likely to do so. To use your words, "I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised".
Garage:
What's daring about advocating for a tax policy that benefits you personally?
Well, I suppose that one concern would be the inevitable sanctimonious sneering from the looselugnut libruls who employ ad hominum rhetoric to squash a point of view regardless of the fact that it is the correct policy for all of us in the end.
By the same token, it could be accurate to point out that the 47%, riven as they often are, with bitterness and envy, have every incentive to use public tax policy as a means to exact revenge upon the successful and to line their own pockets at the same time without having to actually make the effort to be a highwayman lying in wait upon the cold bogs or in a wet ditch
As I read your contributions here, Garage, I see that same bitterness and envy in your every thought...such as they are. Purge yourself of them, buddy. Have a cleansing. And join the rest of us in celebrating individual achievement and the societal benefit that springs from enlightened self-interest.
- Krumhorn.
..
"Another egregious example of GOP types who gush with embarrassing enthusiasm in the presence of a black person who says some conservative things."
"GOP types" probably wouldn't gush so much, if they could get through just one week of their lives without their party being wrongly accused of some new fanciful charge of racism.
Althouse's dumbest post in a long time.
We've got a serious problem with the media sucking Obama's dick and refusing to do it's formerly sacred job of opposition to power and vetting the president...
And Althouse is worried about this shit?
Seriously dumb. We all have our bad days.
One dimension to this issue is being overlooked. Respect is a two way street. Just how well have the last two Democratic presidents respected the office of the president?
Well we all know how President Clinton liked to pass the time in the Oval office, even while talking to world leaders on the phone. Then you have the actions of the staff as they left the White House. (removing the "W" key from computer keyboards etc)
Someone find me a picture of Reagan or one of the Bushs sitting in the Oval office in their rolled up shirtsleeves with their feet on the desk. Won't happen.
Not only does the Left not "respect the office of the president" when there is a Republican in the presidency, Democratic presidents don't when they are.
Well played, indeed, Professor Althouse.
You managed to attract the Leftists who frequent your comments to write in defense of criticisms of their beloved President Obama. Nothing could represent "smart" criticism better than chiding critics into the role of defenders.
Simultaneously, you managed to goad some of your readers to play their typical "un-smart" role by missing the irony of your post. Delicious for you, oh great and powerful mover of human beings who cannot see the forest or the trees.
Get off a political "team", boys and girls. Or Ann Althouse will tempt you once again to betray your true selves. And from what I've read it's not an altogether good look on any of you.
I think the Nutty Professor is feeling like Taylor Swift right now.
Everybody is taking a shot. Even Ritmo.
When you have everyone from Ritmo to Shouting to Edutcher to DBQ telling you that your post is bullshit.....well you have hit the gold mine of comment generation.
Next up....why LL Cool J is not shown the proper respect like they used to show Bob Hope as a host!
Seriously dumb. We all have our bad days.
Look at it this way, ST.
Yesterday, she posts an astute analysis of some dolt who's depressed by a map showing that people of similar means tend to live near each other.
Result? 58 comments.
Today she posts a piss-poor analysis of what was by any reasonable account an excellent speech.
Result? 146 comments and climbing.
Althouse has taken to heart that legend about purposely putting a flaw in one's craftsmanship.
Not that any of us needs to do that consciously.
Carson is a pediatric neurosurgeon, not an economist or a health care policy wonk or a speechwriter.
President Obama is a community organizer, not an economist or health care policy wonk, or anyone who has any idea how to run a business.
I look forward to you criticizing every Obama speech on this new "He's not an economist" standard.
I wait with bated breath...
When somebody says "Bated Breath" it makes me think of someone with a sardine hanging from their lips.
Ewwwwwwwww.
That's baited breath, BZ.
Bated breath makes me think of heavy breathing while watching pron.
Aside from the little fact that black preachers preach VERY EXPLICIT politics from the pulpit ALL THE TIME, the entire concept of "Obamacare" rests on arguments about the morality of personal responsibility vs that of the community-at-large. To say that comments at a prayer breakfast about public and private morality and personal vs group responsibility and the government polices that flow from such considerations are somehow beyond the pale is incredulous..
Birkel warns: Get off a political "team", boys and girls. Or Ann Althouse will tempt you once again to betray your true selves. And from what I've read it's not an altogether good look on any of you.
See, this is where disingenuousness comes into play. Althouse could very well have played us for chumps--I stopped trying to figure that out long ago around the time I stopped trying to figure out who people here really "were."
There is something to be said for just taking things at face value and when incongruity or ambiguity arises, just remain cool and consistent.
Sorry about that. My fingers are cold from the snow and I missed a letter.
You know who has "Baited breath?"
Hillary Clinton.
Smells like fish. I swear.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
I think that maid from Downton Abbey has "Mr. Bates Breath."
Just sayn'
2/10/13, 12:10 PM
Blogger O Ritmo Segundo said...
"Obamacare is doomed as a huge bureaucracy with perverse incentives that will not reduce utilization.
Which incentives are "perverse" and how do they compare, in their perversity, to the incentives embedded in the current system?"
The politicians cannot resist the temptation to promise "free health care" even though it is well known that there is an infinite demand for "free stuff." Ever heard of a "land office business ?"
The promise of free care has to be coupled to rationing done by a central agency or a deus ex machina, like HMOs or "accountable care organizations" as in Obamacare.
The free market has been widely dismissed as being incapable of controlling utilization. In fact, we are heading there now but the resistance is to "two tiered care" ignoring the fact that we have it and will always have it. Do you think the Obama family will be getting the same care yours will in the future ?
I remember a scandal in the NHS when the minister of health, a woman, had her hysterectomy in Belgium during a period when the Labour government had driven private physicians overseas because the unions refused to treat private patients in NHS hospitals.
In Greater London, 25% of the population has private insurance and uses private care and private hospitals. That is also the only area of Britain with a positive GDP.
Doctors have experience with the existing system and most politicians do not.
If you are really interested, I have an extensive study of the topic. My conclusion is that the French have the best system in the world for a large country.
The only solution is to insure trauma plus catastrophic illness, only. The rest should be personal responsibility. The poor can have access to public clinics and public hospitals. Medicaid nearly destroyed the great public hospitals in 1965 but they could be restored with time. That is two tier care but it is all we can afford.
Bated breath makes me think of heavy breathing while watching pron
Julian Fellows was brilliantly cruel to name a character Mister Bates.
Damn, Zemo got there a minute earlier!
Sorry for the diversion.
Let's get back to the subject of the post.
Kissing the Jug Eared Jesus ass and dissing Black conservative and Republicans.
Aaargghhh! Well, what do I know anyway!
I'm just an idiotic old man! Leave me alone!
Inga said...
Edutcher, you are once again using a thread to fight some weird personal war with me. It's beyond boring already. Why don't you stay on topic?
Flip back through the comments and all I did was dispute your claim anent the bitter clingers vs Romney's 47%.
Considering you're using the same line as the abortion thread a few days ago, I note you've at least dropped the STFU bit, so, at least, you're learning.
And bitter clingers and 47% is off topic, liebling, so take your own advice.
Baron Zemo said...
When somebody says "Bated Breath" it makes me think of someone with a sardine hanging from their lips.
Ewwwwwwwww.
You and The Blonde, O Mighty One; although she says, "Worm on tongue".
I hope you're not annoyed.
There is something odd going on with that link at my end.
If anybody else is having trouble I suggest you try the Print link.
Mike Judge was pretty rough on Frito Pendejo, too.
The Sponge Bob Square Pants movie is on and the opening scene is Pirates dancing in lines and doing ripple splits.
Fucking gay.
As usual, great posts by Chip S and Bagoh.
The media act as a filter. They drain the common sense until there's nothing left but the Obama worship. What happens when there's no Obama worship?
52% + of this nation do not understand common sense. They only understand one thing: Worship democrats no matter what. Never question. Just worship.
No wonder Obama was miffed. If he and his bad ideas are not the center of adulation, Obama doesn't know how to behave.
oh noez. The GOP got excited when they heard common sense. Since common sense is all but banned under the reign of queen Pelosi and Lord Obama, is it any wonder?
We don't know what contribution he made to the writing of the speech. I don't know how that speech got into his hands, but once he had that position on the dais at the prayer breakfast, those hands were very valuable hands in which to put a speech. Who is the speechwriter? If it was (Obama) himself, alone, I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised."
I don't disagree with your point here, but if you'd said the same thing about Obama's now famous 2004 speech to the DNC, you'd have been called a racist.
In the Sponge Bob movie there is a restaurant called The Crusty Crab-total lesbian bait.
tits.
Oh, that's just crap.
It was perfectly polite, perfectly on point, and the WSJ is being a tad ironic, in the "Ted Nugent for President" sense. (He may be bat-guano crazy, but out of his mouth sometimes comes stuff that's been too long unsaid - spelling it out for the faux-obtuse, there.)
And the secularists are missing - perhaps with deliberate faux-obtouseness - the fact that in a life of faith, that faith and its consequences come first. This wasn't a Presidential appearance with a bunch of church folk. This was a faith-based event which the President chose to attend.
At this prayer breakfast, Dr. Carson spoke about the large issues confronting the country from the perspective of a life grounded in achievement, responsibility and faith - his over-arching point is that these three things go together. The operative word is "prayer", with "national" meaning geography not government, and scope of issues, again not government. Their faith and preferences are not dependent on which President is there or not. Their agenda is their own, as it has been all along, at the juncture of national issues and faith, as it has been all along.
It's not Dr. Carson's fault that the President's policies and preferences are at odds with their hosts' beliefs and agenda - and what has brought them together since before there was a Dr. Carson or a President Obama. It's no surprise the kind of speaker they'd invite for inspiration. The hosts, the prayer breakfast, the people, their religions and the teachings of their faith(s) come first. The President is the interloper.
If the President's preferences and perspective are so divergent from his hosts' he might not want to attend. Were I cynical, I might think President Obama's attendance was a political ploy. If his hosts and the invited speaker do not speak their truth at odds with his it look like endorsement - a "fig leaf" of sorts for his policies. Cynically, I might believe that deference to the office was what he was counting on, with the outrage-y outrage mostly because the ploy didn't work.
There is no need to demean the speaker. Dr. Carson has been a public person for some time, as a frequent speaker with several books, a foundation and more. So, unless his being a clean, articulate black man is noteworthy (See what I did there?) who wrote what, when in his speech is a distraction - cynically, I might think a deliberate one - from the four teachings arising from that speech, by that man, at that event:
* Demonstration of an alternative path to an alternative kind of accomplishment - neither the crumbs of patronage nor the spoils of riding the system - available to all, yes even a black man born to poverty.
* The grounding of that accomplishment & the life that produces it in Judeo Christian ethics. (Ethics also present in other faiths and cultures - that's its name, not an exclusive claim.)
* Many of our national policies and the rationales for them are starkly, stunningly at odds with that ethic, and perhaps the results are telling.
* And most significant the primacy of the people and their autonomous lives over the clerks and figureheads we appoint to execute on our beliefs.
The President is free to set the agenda for campaign events, and expect deference at political & government events. At a long-standing independent, faith-based event he is a guest. Expecting his hosts to subjugate their purpose to his presence is presumptuous.
Hey, when Obama used that National Prayer Breakfast to agitate for ObamaCare, was that inappropriate?
My first thought when I heard this speech was, where do I send a check to his charity?
He has & and will do more good for this world than Teh Won.
Oh, that's just crap.
It was perfectly polite, perfectly on point, and the WSJ is being a tad ironic, in the "Ted Nugent for President" sense. (He may be bat-guano crazy, but out of his mouth sometimes comes stuff that's been too long unsaid - spelling it out for the faux-obtuse, there.)
And the secularists are missing - perhaps with deliberate faux-obtouseness - the fact that in a life of faith, that faith and its consequences come first. This wasn't a Presidential appearance with a bunch of church folk. This was a faith-based event which the President chose to attend.
At this prayer breakfast, Dr. Carson spoke about the large issues confronting the country from the perspective of a life grounded in achievement, responsibility and faith - his over-arching point is that these three things go together. The operative word is "prayer", with "national" meaning geography not government, and scope of issues, again not government. Their faith and preferences are not dependent on which President is there or not. Their agenda is their own, as it has been all along, at the juncture of national issues and faith, as it has been all along.
It's not Dr. Carson's fault that the President's policies and preferences are at odds with their hosts' beliefs and agenda - and what has brought them together since before there was a Dr. Carson or a President Obama. It's no surprise the kind of speaker they'd invite for inspiration. The hosts, the prayer breakfast, the people, their religions and the teachings of their faith(s) come first. The President is the interloper.
If the President's preferences and perspective are so divergent from his hosts' he might not want to attend. Were I cynical, I might think President Obama's attendance was a political ploy. If his hosts and the invited speaker do not speak their truth at odds with his it look like endorsement - a "fig leaf" of sorts for his policies. Cynically, I might believe that deference to the office was what he was counting on, with the outrage-y outrage mostly because the ploy didn't work.
There is no need to demean the speaker. Dr. Carson has been a public person for some time, as a frequent speaker with several books, a foundation and more. So, unless his being a clean, articulate black man is noteworthy (See what I did there?) who wrote what, when in his speech is a distraction - cynically, I might think a deliberate one - from the four teachings arising from that speech, by that man, at that event:
* Demonstration of an alternative path to an alternative kind of accomplishment - neither the crumbs of patronage nor the spoils of riding the system - available to all, yes even a black man born to poverty.
* The grounding of that accomplishment & the life that produces it in Judeo Christian ethics. (Ethics also present in other faiths and cultures - that's its name, not an exclusive claim.)
* Many of our national policies and the rationales for them are starkly, stunningly at odds with that ethic, and perhaps the results are telling.
* And most significant the primacy of the people and their autonomous lives over the clerks and figureheads we appoint to execute on our beliefs.
The President is free to set the agenda for campaign events, and expect deference at political & government events. At a long-standing independent, faith-based event he is a guest. Expecting his hosts to subjugate their purpose to his presence is presumptuous.
Mike Piazza has just published his autobiography and he confronts Roger Clemens, steriods and rumors he is a sword swallower:
“I don’t know where the rumor came from, although I’ve heard many theories, including one that I suppose makes the most sense to me, involving a former teammate and his agent.”
Piazza doesn’t name the instigators, and is vague about how the rumor spread from there. He felt compelled to address the gossip publicly, telling reporters, “I’m not gay. I’m heterosexual. I can’t control what people think. I can say I’m heterosexual. I date women. That’s pretty much it. Now leave me alone while I pinch this loaf and then walk my rare clumber.”
Not that theres anything wrong with that.
Who is the speechwriter? If it was Carson himself, alone, I'd be extremely impressed. And extremely surprised.
I think I understand the "skepticism"... one of my favorite tags is "things are not what they seem".
But This time I have no idea where Althouse is coming from.
My husband is less emotional than I am when it comes to all things Obama and has no dog in this fight. I made him watch the video of Dr. Carson.. asked him if the tone of the speech can be liken to lecturing Obama. He said no. Was it inspirational? He said yes. Did he think Dr. Carson wrote his own speech? He said yes.. no reason to think he didn't.
I never doubted that America would one day elect a black man as president. Ben Carson is the type of man that I envisioned.
Sauce. Goose. Gander. I would take the Althouse criticism seriously if she had bothered to note Obama propensity (and history) of doing exactly what she is complaining Carson did.
Inga is a another example of the same thing. She excoriates Carson for doing what Obama did at the SOTU (and you can expect him to do in this year's SOTU). Obama is not a king. He deserves exactly the same treatment he gives.
Oh, that's just crap.
It was perfectly polite, perfectly on point, and the WSJ is being a tad ironic, in the "Ted Nugent for President" sense. (He may be bat-guano crazy, but out of his mouth sometimes comes stuff that's been too long unsaid - spelling it out for the faux-obtuse, there.)
And the secularists are missing - perhaps with deliberate faux-obtouseness - the fact that in a life of faith, that faith and its consequences come first. This wasn't a Presidential appearance with a bunch of church folk. This was a faith-based event which the President chose to attend.
At this prayer breakfast, Dr. Carson spoke about the large issues confronting the country from the perspective of a life grounded in achievement, responsibility and faith - his over-arching point is that these three things go together. The operative word is "prayer", with "national" meaning geography not government, and scope of issues, again not government. Their faith and preferences are not dependent on which President is there or not. Their agenda is their own, as it has been all along, at the juncture of national issues and faith, as it has been all along.
It's not Dr. Carson's fault that the President's policies and preferences are at odds with their hosts' beliefs and agenda - and what has brought them together since before there was a Dr. Carson or a President Obama. It's no surprise the kind of speaker they'd invite for inspiration. The hosts, the prayer breakfast, the people, their religions and the teachings of their faith(s) come first. The President is the interloper.
If the President's preferences and perspective are so divergent from his hosts' he might not want to attend. Were I cynical, I might think President Obama's attendance was a political ploy. If his hosts and the invited speaker do not speak their truth at odds with his it look like endorsement - a "fig leaf" of sorts for his policies. Cynically, I might believe that deference to the office was what he was counting on, with the outrage-y outrage mostly because the ploy didn't work.
There is no need to demean the speaker. Dr. Carson has been a public person for some time, as a frequent speaker with several books, a foundation and more. So, unless his being a clean, articulate black man is noteworthy (See what I did there?) who wrote what, when in his speech is a distraction - cynically, I might think a deliberate one - from the four teachings arising from that speech, by that man, at that event:
* Demonstration of an alternative path to an alternative kind of accomplishment - neither the crumbs of patronage nor the spoils of riding the system - available to all, yes even a black man born to poverty.
* The grounding of that accomplishment & the life that produces it in Judeo Christian ethics. (Ethics also present in other faiths and cultures - that's its name, not an exclusive claim.)
* Many of our national policies and the rationales for them are starkly, stunningly at odds with that ethic, and perhaps the results are telling.
* And most significant the primacy of the people and their autonomous lives over the clerks and figureheads we appoint to execute on our beliefs.
The President is free to set the agenda for campaign events, and expect deference at political & government events. At a long-standing independent, faith-based event he is a guest. Expecting his hosts to subjugate their purpose to his presence is presumptuous.
Oh, that's just crap.
It was perfectly polite, perfectly on point, and the WSJ is being a tad ironic, in the "Ted Nugent for President" sense. (He may be bat-guano crazy, but out of his mouth sometimes comes stuff that's been too long unsaid - spelling it out for the faux-obtuse, there.)
And the secularists are missing - perhaps with deliberate faux-obtouseness - the fact that in a life of faith, that faith and its consequences come first. This wasn't a Presidential appearance with a bunch of church folk. This was a faith-based event which the President chose to attend.
At this prayer breakfast, Dr. Carson spoke about the large issues confronting the country from the perspective of a life grounded in achievement, responsibility and faith - his over-arching point is that these three things go together. The operative word is "prayer", with "national" meaning geography not government, and scope of issues, again not government. Their faith and preferences are not dependent on which President is there or not. Their agenda is their own, as it has been all along, at the juncture of national issues and faith, as it has been all along.
It's not Dr. Carson's fault that the President's policies and preferences are at odds with their hosts' beliefs and agenda - and what has brought them together since before there was a Dr. Carson or a President Obama. It's no surprise the kind of speaker they'd invite for inspiration. The hosts, the prayer breakfast, the people, their religions and the teachings of their faith(s) come first. The President is the interloper.
If the President's preferences and perspective are so divergent from his hosts' he might not want to attend. Were I cynical, I might think President Obama's attendance was a political ploy. If his hosts and the invited speaker do not speak their truth at odds with his it look like endorsement - a "fig leaf" of sorts for his policies. Cynically, I might believe that deference to the office was what he was counting on, with the outrage-y outrage mostly because the ploy didn't work.
There is no need to demean the speaker. Dr. Carson has been a public person for some time, as a frequent speaker with several books, a foundation and more. So, unless his being a clean, articulate black man is noteworthy (See what I did there?) who wrote what, when in his speech is a distraction - cynically, I might think a deliberate one - from the four teachings arising from that speech, by that man, at that event:
* Demonstration of an alternative path to an alternative kind of accomplishment - neither the crumbs of patronage nor the spoils of riding the system - available to all, yes even a black man born to poverty.
* The grounding of that accomplishment & the life that produces it in Judeo Christian ethics. (Ethics also present in other faiths and cultures - that's its name, not an exclusive claim.)
* Many of our national policies and the rationales for them are starkly, stunningly at odds with that ethic, and perhaps the results are telling.
* And most significant the primacy of the people and their autonomous lives over the clerks and figureheads we appoint to execute on our beliefs.
The President is free to set the agenda for campaign events, and expect deference at political & government events. At a long-standing independent, faith-based event he is a guest. Expecting his hosts to subjugate their purpose to his presence is presumptuous.
Professor?
--Carson is a pediatric neurosurgeon, not an economist or a health care policy wonk or a speechwriter.---
From a certain POV, this sounds like you're suggesting that since he's a neurosurgeon, he should only be able to talk about neurosurgery.
He can read, can't he? I can go read English, Canadian, Australian & Kiwi papers and make my determination if their versions of NHC are better than the US's.
BTW, the view from this flyover state, it looks to me like those who are educated or credentialed more than we rubes are are driving this country over the cliff.
It looks like you've spent your life teaching a dead document, so who's the real rube?
Why can't you see what's coming?
Chickelit said...
My hypothesis is that the juxtaposition of common sense and religion deeply offended Althouse...
I could see that...
Althouse is a separatist.
(I'm kidding professor)
garage mahal said...
What's daring about advocating for a tax policy that benefits you personally?
That's right, garagie!! He's totally for it because it benefits him personally!!
And, and, and, wealthy people totally get rich worrying about a 2% rate reduction on ordinary income earned over $250,000. Really, they do!!!
Idiot.
Carson is the first neurosurgeon to successfully separate Siamese twins. Not bad for a man whose mother was illiterate. I certainly think writing a speech is not beyond his intellectual capabilities. With all due respect, Professor, I think he's much smarter than you or any commenter on these boards.
Of course, it's entirely inappropriate for a neurosurgeon to comment on - healthcare. Leave such topics to experts like Jon Stewart.
One, he may have had a little help with the speech but it is him. He does not have the handlers an average politician has. And I resent the implication that a doctor does not have a place at the table because of his career choice. What makes lawyers so special, that they are always presumed worthy to speak about matters political?
Two, I agree that the repubs should not be jumping all over this speech but not because Dr. Carson is not his own speech writer but because the speech condemns them as much as Obama. It is being widely interpreted as being archly conservative and directly critical of Obama, but I think that is over-reaching. Carson condemns the system of winning over problem solving. Both parties are implicated in this
Hey, I say use the opportunity when you get it, especially if it's the only one. I've followed this man's career for years. His is an incredible story.
Is Obama the only one who gets to be political, anywhere, all the time? I was offended by his comment that he can't believe people pray together and then go out and criticize one another the same day. This from the man who excoriated and attempted to intimidate Supreme Court Justices as they sat in front of him?
Leftist are ALWAYS "allowed" to be political all the time. Ben Carson got one chance and by the sound of the audience cheering him on, they appreciated it, as I did. If Obama had actually consulted people like Carson, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now with health care.
OTOH, a pediatric neurosurgeon certainly does have credentials when discussing Obamacare, does he not?
And a flat tax rate policy, too!
I have a question (and I haven't read all the comments so maybe it was brought up)...but does Ann know how many books the good doctor has written?
So if he can write a book, why can't he write a speech?
I have no problem believing he wrote his own speech. The average IQ for a medical doctor is 125; Carson's is probably a LOT higher than that. I graduated from a top fifteen US medical school, and any one of my classmates could write such a speech. Doctors are out every day, talking to people from all walks of life, solving problems, and making decisions for which they cannot escape responsibility. You go into the doctor's lounge at any community hospital, and you will find informed conversation about almost any topic - because a huge number of doctors are geniuses. Like Ben Carson.
Dr. Carson spoke at my "white-coat" ceremony when I first entered medical school. It emphasized the value of hard work and personal responsibility. I've seen a few other speeches and let me totally clear - "NO WAY I BELIEVE DR. CARSON DIDN"T WRITE HIS OWN SPEECH". If you know anything about the man, you'd know this is preposterous.
The insinuation is quite insulting and just wrong. You don't have to be a trained economist or policy wonk to see the major deficiencies of the awkwardly named "affordable care act". Sometimes you need just query those who actually deliver health care.
The president has a habit of fingering wagging on the public stage against those whose opinions he doesn't agree with (witness his rant against the Supreme Court at the State of Union address).
I find it refreshing that the President got a taste of his own medicine.
Chickelit said...
There is something to be said for just taking things at face value and when incongruity or ambiguity arises, just remain cool and consistent.
Is it scary to think that That might have been the only reason why the trillion dollar coin idea didn't take?
Things are that lustreless... at least to me.
Ann. Dr. Carson did not read a written speech. He spoke from his own notes. Watch and you will see. It is his style.
You comment on his disrespect of the office of the president is...stupid. This president too seldom hears the opinions of others.
And a flat tax rate policy, too!
Ha ha! You really got him!
Except, if you listened to the speech, you'd know that he talked about this in the context of tithing. His question was, if the tenets of Christian morality specified tithing, what was the moral basis for progressive income taxation? His answer: there is none.
I've seen lots and lots of liberals on this site readily asserting the moral imperative of progressive taxation. What are their credentials?
What credentials does any citizen need to discuss this topic?
Just done panic and walk in single file...
Ritmo: I read as far as your first (I think it was your first?) comment, where you inserted a link to one of Dr. Carson's books and, since I've responded to you a couple of times when I thought you were being silly, I wanted to take the opportunity to say 'well done, excellent post!'.
I liked the speech. It was overdue, and I glad he gave it.
He tied it in nicely with scripture, so I don't agree that it was inappropriate.
“I find it refreshing that the President got a taste of his own medicine.”
As do I.
One takes the opportunity as it presents itself.
Fuck Obama. The office deserves respect, but he's diminished it so severely that he should be treated harshly. He's a constant campaigner, a constant demagogue. He's turned the bully pulpit into a perpetual tool. It's meaningless now. I don't take it seriously anymore when the president gives a speech or says something important to the nation. Fuck him.
That said, conservatives are transparent when they fall over themselves praising a conservative black person. Its obvious why they like him.
What Jim Bullock said... @1:23
Wait... why is he repeating the same post over and over?
I read it once... why say it again and again?
Post a Comment