January 23, 2013
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87 comments:
Whatever happened to the old Lefty canard, "One person can make a difference"?
I guess we're all Communists now.
that's the definition of the perfect Democrat - they don't make a move without getting instructions from above. Everything trickles down.
The pendulum has swung a little too far left for comfort.
Government hates other associations, because they hate the competition.
However, those other free associations limit the potential of government tyranny.
Those bitches don't own us.
I am alone. The government is on the other team.
Close to 100% of my interaction with the government involves self-defense on my part. In nearly every case I'm trying to avoid being arrested, fined, charged a fee, inspected, controlled, inhibited, restricted, taxed, paper-worked, or drained of my time for no benefit.
They should at least give free lap dances to preferred customers like me.
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the left is in mid-jump of the shark?
With things like Obamacare, the overreach of the ADA, and many more things, a private entity cannot exist unless the government approves it.
I was just discussing this with my assistant today when we were considering taking advantage of being located in an "Enterprise zone", which is government talk for ghetto. You can get tax breaks for hiring and training people, which we have been doing a lot lately.
He asked me if we really want to provide all that info and get in another government database which usually works out bad eventually. I said: "Why not? Big brother already knows everything about every move we make, and we aren't breaking any rules anyway." But, the truth is it's just scary to even talk to a government representative as a business, even when they say they want you around. It's like popping your head up out of the foxhole and yelling for help behind enemy lines.
...which seems to have become popular with Democrats in the past couple years.
What do we say to their instant rejoinder... we won... what difference does it make?
Hitler and Stalin had the same idea as Obama's, centralization.
Centralization demands one wait for higher up approval to do anything. Everything is thought up from top downward.
Individualization is crushed as that leads to unilateral action.
As a result Hitler's armies were paralyzed when they could not contact Hitler as we invaded at Normandy. And Stalin's people were scared spitless to deviate from orders so much so they let the Germans overrun half the country before they could bring it to a halt.
This all kind of reminds me of Hillary's "it takes a village" bull. Socialization at it's worst.
He forgot to include "monarchism" in his list of things Americans couldn't have met with muskets and militias.
Oh wait.
Well, I guess it's nice seeing the president called out on his fallacious bullshit, if even several months too late. I have nothing more to add, except the immortal words of Iowahawk:
"Government is the name we give to the things we do together;
Corporation is the name we give to things we do voluntarily."
Whatever happened to the old Lefty canard, "One person can make a difference"?
Well, yeah; not any one, The One.
Hitler and Stalin had the same idea as Obama's, centralization.
Could we stop invoking Hitler and Stalin to describe Obama, please? It makes it sound like only fruitcakes oppose his agenda.
You want a good example of who he is REALLY emulating? Try FDR or Woodrow Wilson. Or, hell, Richard Nixon for that matter.
Obama, I think, is calling out to the left's fierce hatred of the Tea Party with this language.
My knowledge of the Tea Party is restricted to FB conversations with members. My understanding of the Tea Party is that it opposes the massive expansion of borrowing and spending by the Obama admin.
The left's tactical response has been to declare that the Tea Party actually hates all government and taxation, and would leave us without roads and police. Every man for himself.
So, I think that Obama is calling out to the left here. He's echoing their insistence that the Tea Party and the Republican Party is now a party of insane extremists who want to dismantle the government.
You can not be a supporter of Civil Rights and support unlimited government.
Civil Rights are, by definition, a limitation on government power.
GeeWhiz - Kentucky Liz, I really liked you legs. I'm not so sure about the FemBots.
This notion that the Republican Party and conservatives actually are motivated by hatred of government, and a desire to shut it down, is echoed in the now frequent accusations that opponents of Democrats and liberals are
"sociopaths."
Could we stop invoking Hitler and Stalin to describe Obama, please? It makes it sound like only fruitcakes oppose his agenda.
I agree. It's as stupid and silly as the left trying to make him into a Lincoln or an MLK.
The man's mettle has never been tested. We saw what happened to Hillary today. Imagine what people would do to him absent his executive privilege.
What happens if a fallacy is allowed to take root and become... gospel or whatever?
Someone float us a tray of fallacy invalidating force leaving us free to sit and mumble the history of.
Obama has no use for the many mediating institutions of civil society since his solution to every problem is more gov't. That is especially weird against the background of the African-American experience. Since the end of Reconstruction until the civil rights revolution bore fruit, American blacks had nothing but the mediating institutions of civil society -- extended families, churches, fraternal organizations, etc. -- for support; gov't was, at best, passive in protecting (let alone advancing) their interests, and was much more often the instrument of suppression.
In so many ways, he is a stranger in a strange land when it comes to understanding America.
Allowed to take root = goes unchallenged.
Lem said...
Allowed to take root = goes unchallenged. <--this is what's happening with the DC Press Corpse.
It's a weird dichotomy to think that if one supports the individual, that he supports them in deference or at the expense of greater society.
The NAACP is taking exception to the NYC soda-size ban, saying it places an undue burden on minority-owned businesses. Ha. ha. ha.
"Allowed to take root = goes unchallenged."
Like a Progressive weed without a Constitutional gardener.
Apologize for the incorrect use of "in deference", was thinking of some other term.
...w/o a Constitutional gardener.
"It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."
What ultimately may save us... if saving is not too grandstanding... is that the instinct of unchecked power is to overreach.
Obamacare may yet be the achilles heel the democrats never wished for.
Maybe Althouse is right and the chief knew exactly what he was doing.
I agee with Revenant about references to Stalin and Hitler.
Nonetheless, I have in inchoate suspicion that this man harbors an impulse toward totalitarianism. But, I could be wrong.
JAC, you have that as a straw man argument and it does have that element, but it actually redistributes the middle. There is no middle ground here, as so often there is not. It is a very common ploy. If you do not support the idea of gigantic overarching government organizing human activity then z-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i breathe -i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-p all the way over to the far side of the scale and argue with that.
Then you interlocutor has to begin with fixing that in order to continue, meanwhile they're dismissing your answer and formulating a fresh argument, often another fallacy that needs fixing before you can continue. And now the argument is all about the edges and fixing statements and defining terms.
The thing to do is ignore the argument and deliver your own. One that supersedes the obvious fallacy or possibly includes it by way of dismissing it use your own vocabulary for your own monologue. Which you did. Which will be dismissed.
"Almost abusive"--what does it take to make you come right out and say it.
Dems like to continually compare Obama to Lincoln and Reagan, both republicans and both would reject his ideology. Wilson, FDR or any Marxist college professor would be better comparisons.
"what I really believe is, let’s spend a little more time leaving everybody alone.” - Clint Eastwood
Turn off your tv
Barter
Have no truck with statists
300 million cannot be controlled without our consent.
Make them come with a warrant.
Work less
Move-keep moving
Homeschool
Tie them up with their own rules.
Create no paper trails
Make them irrelavant in your lives.
Withdraw-it is not patriotic to support what this country has become.
Let them own it.
Now, more than ever, we must do these things together.
Obama denies the most promising trends of technology and history in allegiance to a stale statist economic model that requires sustained political control over a central government that has increasing influence over most aspects of people's lives.
These people spent their youth fighting "the MAN"
Now they are bigger assholes than Nixon and J Edgar Hoover.
Dems like to continually compare Obama to Lincoln and Reagan...
Um, Lincoln made a quantum leap in aggregating power to the Federal Government.
"We had to destroy the village [State's Rights / the Federal system] in order to save it."
Lincoln and Obama both implemented programs very unpopular with a large portion of the populace.
Lincoln had a moral vision for the country, and was a master at conveying meaning with a few words.
Obama's vision seems to be whatever he wants to do at the moment, and that follows to his communicating ability.
I read the linked excerpt. Not sure what the man is trying to say. Seems like a verbose rendition of "It takes a village..." If you're not with us 100%, then you are a worthless piece of shit.
Mick
This administration is loaded with the kinds of people J. Edgar was keeping tabs on and Obama's imperial presidency make Nixon seem a piker by comparison.
Using Hitler in an analogy is not necessarily comparing Him to Obama.
I'll explain, I believe that I am every bit as upset as those good Germans must have been when they were forced to watch Hitlers rise to power, all the time realizing they were powerless to stop it.
In this analogy I'm using Hitler, but the comparison I'm making is between myself and the German citizen..
Do you get it?
Hammond
Better explained at Powerline than I could.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/01/obamas-living-declaration.php
Mc Triumph:
I couldn't say it better. The Establishment folded and abandoned this country.
"Professor Ayers" should have been rotting in an unmarked grave.
I believe that and I voted for McGovern
In this analogy I'm using Hitler, but the comparison I'm making is between myself and the German citizen..Do you get it?
Rather than using an analogy of Hitler's rise to power, why not use the analogy of Roosevelt's election?
It is a great deal more accurate and doesn't come with Holocaust baggage.
Mc Triumph
You and I have a lot more common ground than British motorcycles.
My dad is an accountant.
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the left is in mid-jump of the shark?
I've been reading political, social, and economic commentary for about a dozen years now. I don't think the tenets of the left have changed much at all during that time. Good chunks of it have always seemed looney to me.
Bagoh, I think what bothers me is that the country at large, right now, seems so much more willing to adopt a progressive agenda. Or if not willingly, at least they are apathetic enough about it not to resist it.
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the left is in mid-jump of the shark?
A bit, yes. Obama got about 51% of the vote. "Overwhelming mandate" is hardly the case here, especially since he ran on just destroying his opponent and not on a damned thing he did.
Republicans need to:
1) Boycott NBC. Don't give them the time of day.
2) Boycott ABC when George is involved. Screw him.
3) Hell, ignore the major media. Do what Obama did.
4) Every interview needs to be about how badly Obama failed. No matter what the topic. Give him no credit for anything.
You want a good example of who he is REALLY emulating? Try FDR or Woodrow Wilson. Or, hell, Richard Nixon for that matter.
Wartime Wilson easily. People don't realize how draconian the laws were under Wilson during WW I.
And the Left has LONGED to return to that for decades.
Nonetheless, I have in inchoate suspicion that this man harbors an impulse toward totalitarianism.
He's a Progressive. Totalitarianism is the key aspect of their philosophy.
Turn off your tv
Barter
Have no truck with statists
300 million cannot be controlled without our consent.
Make them come with a warrant.
Work less
Move-keep moving
Homeschool
Tie them up with their own rules.
Create no paper trails
Make them irrelavant in your lives.
Withdraw-it is not patriotic to support what this country has become.
Let them own it.
Not your father's Republican Party.
Phx, not to answer for Mick, but I'm missing where he said he was a Republican??
Does your thinking get stuck on tribal affiliation? It's a common mistake.
"Whatever happened to the old Lefty canard, 'One person can make a difference'"?
One person can make a difference...by inspiring others to join together to act in concert to achieve desired ends. Martin Luther King made a difference, and Ghandi made a difference, but only through inspiring and guiding others to join with them.
"I guess we're all Communists now."
No, we're all serfs now.
"Is anyone else getting the feeling that the left is in mid-jump of the shark?"
No. The "left," in this country at this time is largely moribund.
"La nostra formula e questa: tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, niente contro lo Stato. (Our formula is this: everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.)--Benito Mussolini, October 28, 1928
It is easy to imagine Mussolini saying something similar to what Obama described in his second inaugural address. What Obama expressed was corporativism, which is a common defining element of Fascism, European Christian Democracy, and American progressivism. The tie with Fascism is disturbing, but a few other things need to be added before Obama arrives at Fascism. Although most corporativists advocate corporativism as a way of achieving social justice, they recognize that private activity can be desirable. Obama, it seems, does not.
Those bitches don't own us.
"Government's the only thing we all belong to."
References to Hitler and Stalin are valid if they can be backed up by historical reference.
Barry's idea of economics, particularly the GM bailout, is National Socialism, pure and simple.
If Revenant can't live with that, he needs to retire to the drawing room.
bagoh20 said...
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the left is in mid-jump of the shark?
They've been bouncing around like a Slinky.
Stealing the election may be a day they come to rue a lot sooner than anybody thinks.
I'm no supporter of Obama, but the premise of this thread, Jaltcoh's original complaint, is wrong-headed from the start: Obama was giving an entirely pro-forma pep talk, such as any coach gives to his team before a game. His rhetoric was intended to be inclusive of all Americans, to say, in essence, "we are united by our common hopes, dreams, values, and humanity, and together we will prevail over the challenges facing us."
You know, the kind of boilerplate virtually every politician can call up at will.
To read anything into it other than that is to misread it...willfully so.
It's a common mistake.
Erika I hear you, I know he didn't say he was Republican, and maybe he's not. He might be a libertarian, or some other disaffected rightwinger.
One thing's for sure, we're pretty certain he's not a Democrat, and he's not a moderate.
I think it's too bad for moderate Republicans who would completely disavow Mick's "thinking" that they in fact get tied to the extremists who are in their party or hanging around on the fringe.
But I think it's a very good strategy for Dems to point at people like Mick as examples of what's become of the Republican party. It's not entirely accurate, it's not even necessarily fair, but I think it's close and it's good strategy.
I'm pointing out what people who are a lot more partisan than I am are likely to do, and how moderate Republicans seem almost helpless to stop them.
But I think it's a very good strategy for Dems to point at people like Mick as examples of what's become of the Republican party. It's not entirely accurate, it's not even necessarily fair, but I think it's close and it's good strategy.
I'm pointing out what people who are a lot more partisan than I am are likely to do, and how moderate Republicans seem almost helpless to stop them.
The curious thing is that the cynical, dishonest, lefty dynamic that you describe is, I believe, pushing more and more formerly moderate people into the *f--k it, go-Galt, watch-it-burn" mentality that you are scorning. Why should center-righties play ball with these people? The game is rigged. We can't win. Etc.
Robert Cook said...
I'm no supporter of Obama, but the premise of this thread, Jaltcoh's original complaint, is wrong-headed from the start: Obama was giving an entirely pro-forma pep talk, such as any coach gives to his team before a game. His rhetoric was intended to be inclusive of all Americans, to say, in essence, "we are united by our common hopes, dreams, values, and humanity, and together we will prevail over the challenges facing us."
You know, the kind of boilerplate virtually every politician can call up at will.
To read anything into it other than that is to misread it...willfully so.
I think I'll take what he said at face value and not let you deconstruct the dialog and give it meaning it didn't originally have.
His history belies your excuse.
Ok if not Stalin and Hitler...
Robespierre of the French Revolution.
He made terror a policy and with the drones and secret killings he is going just that way. No boots on the ground, just assassination by drone.
And leads the country toward Chaos.
But first... he must disarm the peasantry.
Robert Cook said...
Obama was giving an entirely pro-forma pep talk, such as any coach gives to his team before a game. His rhetoric was intended to be inclusive of all Americans, to say, in essence, "we are united by our common hopes, dreams, values, and humanity, and together we will prevail over the challenges facing us."
Except we're not "united" in any manner, shape or form.
See, Obama, and the stupid people voting for him, his cabinent, and the people in his party on Capitol Hill, do not believe in the ideas and values upon which America was founded.
So I don't want to hear this Cornball Brother drone on pretending we have anything in common. We don't.
And the continued lawlessness and thuggery of his Administration is inching America closer to resolving those differences with organized armed conflict on American soil.
phx said...
But I think it's a very good strategy for Dems to point at people like Mick as examples of what's become of the Republican party. It's not entirely accurate, it's not even necessarily fair, but I think it's close and it's good strategy.
That's right, silly hack, accuracy & fairness are irrelevant to dipshits like you.
The only thing that matters is winning elections.
What is funny about your idiotic screed is you can't see you're engaging in the exact same behavior as birthers.
Of course by being stupid, self-awareness isn't something you're capable of.
And you know what, phx? The thing that I notice among my leftie friends is that they never apologize or seem the least bit bothered or ashamed for the dishonesty, divisiveness, ignorance or goal-post-moving by their side, and yet they will shame the other side for real or perceived same until the cows come home. And then they turn around and mock right-wingers who are blowing the whistle on the whole game, pretending to be unaware that they have been pushing the limits for decades. The left has done nothing but push relentlessly and advance the ball, using whatever honest or dishonest tactics they possibly could, and the moderate right is supposed to tug their forelocks and move out of the way deferentially and distance themselves from the farther right in their own tribe? Seems rather absurd, to me. When's the last time a moderate leftie expressed embarrassment or shame at the tactics of, or association with, the extreme left?
bagoh20 said...
They should at least give free lap dances to preferred customers like me.
I don't think you'd like who they assigned to the program. They don't care much who you'd like to give the lapdance.
Erika said...
The left has done nothing but push relentlessly and advance the ball, using whatever honest or dishonest tactics they possibly could, and the moderate right is supposed to tug their forelocks and move out of the way deferentially and distance themselves from the farther right in their own tribe? Seems rather absurd, to me. When's the last time a moderate leftie expressed embarrassment or shame at the tactics of, or association with, the extreme left?
This is 100% correct. Lefties claim to be non-ideological or non-partisan, but the truth is their ideology and partisanship is so ingrained they simply don't recognize it. phx waxes on overreach by random internet commenters, but has never once criticized overreach by the President - who lied in the most despicable way imaginable when he claimed President Bush refused to help Katrina victims because they were black.
And it is true the left successfully uses this against the right. Not because there's anything unusual about overreach - the left is far worse - but because the left's overreach isn't taken seriously. As AndyR recently admitted we all know the left is lying about their goals and beliefs, and if you're a leftist you've already accepted this about your public positions. This is why leftists never apply the principles they use against the right to themselves.
@Erika I've been around here long enough to know that there's unabashed dishonesty, divisiveness, and ingnorance on all sides - nothing brings it out more than politics no matter what side you butter your bread on. It's the Ordinary Joe at his worst when it comes to commenting on what's right or wrong in government.
You don't seem all that unreasonable Erika. You honestly cannot believe that one side or the other has a corner on righteousness can you? I wonder if dishonesty or unfairness or extremism from your side registers when you read it here on Althouse? Or even in this thread? Do you notice?
There's nothing deceitful or dishonest in pointing out that today's Republican party is more extreme than it was a generation ago. You might disagree and fair enough. But if I point to Mick as an example without know for sure he's Republican, I'm not feeling all that ethically tarnished. If Mick tells us I'm wrong I'll admit it.
The bigger problem for Republicans is that moderates and independents see them as much more extreme than they used to be, and IMO they are absolutely right.
Turn off your tv
Barter
Have no truck with statists
300 million cannot be controlled without our consent.
Make them come with a warrant.
Work less
Move-keep moving
Homeschool
Tie them up with their own rules.
Create no paper trails
Make them irrelavant in your lives.
Withdraw-it is not patriotic to support what this country has become.
Let them own it.
That's the face of today's Republican Party for a lot of people. If you don't like that, I don't think you can blame Dems, you have to blame unchecked extremism on your own side.
That's the face of today's Republican Party for a lot of people. If you don't like that, I don't think you can blame Dems, you have to blame unchecked extremism on your own side.
It would be nice if you would link to your assertions, so we can see them for ourselves.
I wish Jay would refrain from besmirching the honorable title "Cornball Brother" via incorrect application.
Obama is not a true CB, as he is authentically black by way of his political bent to a majority of African Americans.
"Except we're not "united" in any manner, shape or form."
Uh...how about our name? "The __________ States of America?"
What the heck is a "cornball brother?"
"I think I'll take what he said at face value and not let you deconstruct the dialog and give it meaning it didn't originally have."
Heh!
I gave you the "face value" meaning of his remarks. If you're reading anything more into it you're the one "deconstructing" his meaning in order or "reconstruct" it to your own interpretation.
"Obama is not a true CB, as he is authentically black by way of his political bent to a majority of African Americans."
Oh? You see most African Americans as center/right?
Oh? You see most African Americans as center/right?
Uh no. Cornball Brother is another way of saying Uncle Tom.
See here: Urban Dictionary
ESPN reporter refers to Robert Griffin III as 'Cornball Brother.'
EMD,
You said:
""Obama is not a true CB, as he is authentically black by way of his political bent to a majority of African Americans."
Obama is center/right.
By your reckoning then, a "majority of African Americans" are also center/right, if that is the credential that marks one as "authentically black."
Obama is center/right.
By your reckoning then, a "majority of African Americans" are also center/right, if that is the credential that marks one as "authentically black."
They're Democrats.
Obama is center/right by your reckoning.
Well, for the most part, today's Democrats are center/right.
Obama is center/right.
If you're far enough to the left, everything looks right-wing.
phx ...
All you need to do is show up for work or go to school; we have experts who have the answers to your housing needs, your health care needs, your financial needs … no need to plan for your future or actively manage your career, since we can do a better job than you can; just trust us to solve those problems FOR you.
That is the face of the Democratic Party today, and almost all my life for that matter. And it enables/aids/abets what I consider to be the fundamental problem we have in this nation: the "outsourcing" of personal responsibility and personal initiative to a self-selected elite, believing that only they can solve our problems for us.
Mr. Obama's definition of unity is not unity ... it is submission to your "betters" under the coercive force of law, at the expense of accessing the brainpower, willpower, and insight of 300 million people.
Uh...how about our name? "The __________ States of America?"
So we're taking the names of political entities at face value now, are we? :)
@Ritchie the Riveter if your party could stick to that theme you might have a winner. I think that's what Romney was trying to do.
IMO the rank and file, as well as the Limbaugh's of the GOP, undermine that by bringing in a lot of stuff that doesn't belong in the discussion. That benefits my side.
I was liberal in my 20's
I was conservative in my 40's
In my 60's, I just don't give a shit.
Trial lawyers, radical feminists and extremist tree huggers drove me out of the Democratic Party.
Evangelical tightasses and neo-cons drove me out of the Republican Party.
"Ya'all can go to hell-I'm going to Texas
phx ... if that theme is such a "winner", then why isn't "your side" holding "your" leaders to account for perpetrating the lie which I italicized above, upon the American people?
I mean, are y'all so afraid that conservatives might harsh your mellow about the choices y'all have made in life, that you are willing to cut off your noses to spite your faces ... by letting a bunch of Progressive Pied Pipers lead us off the collectivist cliff into persistent decline and/or a new feudalism led by a self-selected elite of Credentialed and Connected Lords?
That will limit your options in life far more than any principled conservative ever will.
I mean, are y'all so afraid that conservatives might harsh your mellow about the choices y'all have made in life, that you are willing to cut off your noses to spite your faces ... by letting a bunch of Progressive Pied Pipers lead us off the collectivist cliff into persistent decline and/or a new feudalism led by a self-selected elite of Credentialed and Connected Lords?
That's a mouthful of assumptions.
phx ... assumptions perhaps, but assumptions based upon years of observing and interacting with Progressives, particularly the allegedly "anti-war" types.
While there are True Believers at the top, for the foot-soldiers of the anti-war Left, it was primarily about being able to say "F*** Bush" ... I can't count how many times in forums like this that discussions about war turned into diatribes about Mr. Bush's alleged stance on social and economic issues, exposing what really drove their "anti-war" position.
Same goes for the intellectual dishonesty directed at Herman Cain and Sarah Palin ... who drew such fire precisely because they couldn't be trusted to go along with politics-as-usual, and might actually stand on principle instead and make it stick in the eyes of the People. The full force of Alinsky Rule Twelve, fueled by a myopic intellectual dishonesty ... combined with undermining by the GOP Establishment, whose meal tickets and social status would be threatened by the mere presence of such "rogues" in their midst ... was directed at them.
The reason we have a Cult of the "Cool" that places those considered "cool" on the fast track to cultural and political leadership, is because "cool" doesn't harsh people's mellow the way adhering to sound principles can.
And it is the Cult of the "Cool" that has led. and is still leading, millions to believe that they not only can, but MUST outsource their initiative and responsibility to the Cult's favorites, in humble submission to a New Feudalism of the Credentialed and Connected instead of living free and pursuing happiness.
But sooner or later, those who put "cool" over principle will have their mellow harshed ... however, they do have a choice of HOW it will be harshed.
They can either man up, admit that they were wrong and the old fuddy-duds were right on principle, where that is the case, and move on ... or be overtaken by events and have consequence do the harshing, out of their control.
Everyone likes the "cool" taste of free ice cream and a pony ride in the "cool" breeze ... until the Management is compelled by events to put a shovel in their hands and point to the reality, in the warm, fetid air, on the barn floor.
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