Althouse: It will help the Democratic Party overall if Obama loses.

September 2, 2012

It will help the Democratic Party overall if Obama loses.

134 comments:

Known Unknown said...: It should, but they'll overdo it post-election and become more emotionally-charged and bitter.; 9/2/12, 2:52 PM
Revenant said...: In a two-party system, losing always helps the losing party in the long term. It is how they know to adjust their positions to align more closely with voters'.; 9/2/12, 2:52 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 2:55 PM
LoafingOaf said...: No it wouldn't. Because the economy will likely improve before Romney does anything and Romney would take false credit for it.; 9/2/12, 2:57 PM
sakredkow said...: Help them what?; 9/2/12, 2:58 PM
Paddy O said...: It will help the Democratic Party only if Reid and Pelosi get replaced by leaders with actual integrity and beliefs.; 9/2/12, 3:00 PM
Paddy O said...: "Help them what?"

Actually help people.; 9/2/12, 3:00 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: In the long term it will help the Democrat party. By ejecting those leftmost elements the party might be able to move back towards the center.

My parents were lifelong Democrats, however, the Democrat party is nothing like what it was years ago. Much more moderate, working class valued, not high centered on abortion, birth control. The Democrats of the Kennedy era would be far to the right of the current Dem party.

If they learn a lesson and become more central, it would help in the future.; 9/2/12, 3:03 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: The modern democrat party, led by Obama, Pelosi and Reid, is off the rails left.
It has become the party of anti-business, anti-free market, anti -individualism, punitive taxation, cronyism, and corruption. The democrats cannot deliver transparency and have forgotten that we are a nation of laws.
The democrat party isn't just the party of big government; it's the party of waste and fraud.
It's time that moderates re-take the democrat party.
John Hickenlooper is one of them.
He actually understands business.

I sure hope he isn’t stupid enough to hitch a ride on this sinking ship.
Save yourselves, democrats.; 9/2/12, 3:05 PM
wyo sis said...: What DBQ said.
It's almost exactly what I was thinking.; 9/2/12, 3:05 PM
sakredkow said...: If their goal is to help people, especially Americans, I don't see what good it does the Democrats to lose the election.; 9/2/12, 3:06 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: 23 million out of work and 16 trillion in debt. Now that's what I call "helping people".; 9/2/12, 3:13 PM
Paddy O said...: "especially Americans, I don't see what good it does the Democrats to lose the election."

Then you don't know any Americans.; 9/2/12, 3:13 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 3:14 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 3:14 PM
Anonymous said...: I think we're going to get to see whether it helps them or not. Obama's toast.; 9/2/12, 3:14 PM
Birches said...: They need a Southerner to help unite the competing factions.

Totally unrelated topic, have you seen this painting?

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/423; 9/2/12, 3:17 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: No, it won't help.

The left will just dig even deeper into its "racism is the explanation for everything" fetish.; 9/2/12, 3:22 PM
Paddy O said...: Also, you especially haven't seen California, which is what happens when Democrats don't lose elections.

My dad is a very highly credentialed, award winning tenured teacher of emotionally disturbed, and otherwise very deficient students, who taught them to read, then Shakespeare, getting them excited about school.

He was let go along with most every other tenured teacher over 60. Illegally, of course, but the school districts are so desperate for money they do whatever they have to, and that means laying off the best teachers to hire the absolute least experienced.

My brother was a teacher. Taught history. Also let go.

I'm finishing up a PhD. My wife and I just had a baby, we were going to use my student insurance, because my adjuncting doesn't come with benefits. Insurance costs went up $500 a quarter due to obamacare.

My family can't afford Democrats to keep winning. California hasn't been able to afford it for a long time. But, since they stay in power we get a high speed train going from nowhere to nowhere and this Fall we will vote on whether to label if food has been genetically modified.

No jobs, no help, teachers laid off, school districts desperate, the state falling apart, businesses leaving. If you're rich like Nancy Pelosi, it doesn't matter.

If you're rich like Reid, it doesn't matter.

If you're rich like the Obamas are getting, and going to get through this office, it doesn't matter.

The Democrats need people for whom the needs of America matter.; 9/2/12, 3:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Why in the world is loosing a good thing? Ask the GOP what it feels like to lose after this election.; 9/2/12, 3:23 PM
ken in tx said...: AP, an audit is Scientology talk. It is a procedure where you are hooked up to a sort of lie detector and are read a long list of statements or questions to see which ones you react to. Supposedly the ones you react to in a certain way are things you need to 'clear' from your life. The church charges beaucoup bucks for this.; 9/2/12, 3:26 PM
Sydney said...: If they lose, and can correctly identify the reasons for losing, then it will help them. But they appear to be somewhat delusional. I am not confident they can correctly identify the reasons for a loss.; 9/2/12, 3:28 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Paddy O - That must be your new baby in the pic? Cute!
Your story is another personal reminder that the Blue State Model is dying.

I love that Mitt Romney didn't take a salary while he was governor of MA. He's not going into this to get rich.

Unlike Pelosi. She and her family have raked in millions from her political position of power and her "financial" legislation and insider trading.

Prez Obama just flew over my house on a paid-for-by-the-taxpayer campaign stop.

I sure hope the Romney campaign reminds voters of the horror of Pelosi. She may be loved in uber-lib SF, but she is despised everywhere else.; 9/2/12, 3:31 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I answered #3 because I'm not at all interested in anything that would help the democrats. But I'm very interested in Obama losing the election.

In principle, what the poll question implies is that if Obama wins and the country and economy worsens even more, the democrats will suffer.

So, I rather Obama loose, and the country and the economy recover... thank you very much.; 9/2/12, 3:32 PM
RecChief said...: If you look at how the Democrats reacted after the mid-terms, I don't think losing will change anything. They didnt learn anything by it. In fact, the President insists that he didn't do a good enough job telling a story rather than making an adjustment to his and his party's policies. Personally, I hope that they all believe that.; 9/2/12, 3:33 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Why in the world is loosing a good thing? Ask the GOP what it feels like to lose after this election."

A lot of us think it's much better for the GOP that Obama won in 08. That's the part of Althouse's justifications for her vote that I agree with. It may have been worse for the country, but the party needed to get back to small government as it's central value. Obama made a bright line on the issue, and forced the GOP to the other side of it.; 9/2/12, 3:34 PM
Brian Brown said...: Normally it would. The problem is the ignorants are going to take to the TV, Radio, and Internet to call America racist if Obama loses.

Which will set them back even further.; 9/2/12, 3:39 PM
jf said...: I think nothing will help either Party, or will enable us to get along better, until we have successfully discarded the principles that a corporation = a person-w/-a-human-body and that money = speech. jmo.; 9/2/12, 3:39 PM
Dante said...: There are two ways to answer this question. As a good friend of mine pointed out, whoever is in the White House has a huge mess on his hands.

What would Obama do? Try to kick the can down the road as far as he can, and hope for change in the economy. Never realizing that his own policies, and the policies of the left got us here. What does four more years of Obama's economy look like? In 2011, the interest on the debt was $454B. That's 1/4th of all receipts. What if people no longer want to give the US low interest rates? What if they spike up to 5, 6, or 7%? Eventually the cost of borrowing has to go up.

Internationally, the Middle East seems in worse shape than it was when Bush left it. We are going to lose Afghanistan, which is unfortunate for the women over there, but why are we fighting the Taliban? Osama is gone. Imagine the Arab Spring spreading to Saudi Arabia, or Iran stirring up real mischief.

However, Obama in another term will allow him to appoint more "Wise Latinas" to the bench, and push the country even further down the road of socialization. Oh, I know, it's really puppet master socialization, in which the government forces businesses to operate within a very confined set of rules. So these are good things for the Democrat Party, even though they are bad things for the country.

Who knows, the guy might push Cap and Trade, and spend a few more trillion dollars on renewables, and drive up our manufacturing costs.

Now, imagine Romney gets in there. He might actually try to do something to fix the problems. That's going to hurt a lot of people. Because that extra $1T a year the government is pushing into the economy every year over what Bush did is a stimulus. People spend that money. That source will dry up, and so will the market for the goods those people purchase. Getting out of the hole, once in it, is painful. It's the difference between walking up the hill, and walking down the hill.

So yes, if Romney foolishly tries to fix the mess, it will hurt, and that might make the Democrats more popular.

Unfortunately, getting to energy independence is going to take a bit longer than one might think, and perhaps the fruit of that labor will start popping just as people become tired of Romney. So yeah, Romney becomes a single term and Hillary gets benefits.

If Obama wins, he has to own it, but the damage may be more than eight years, but more like twenty, or thirty years, for technology to pop up and fight back.

In other words, too hard to say, too many variables.

It's not even clear to me Romney would be better for the country in the long run. I think the policies of Romney are better than Obamas by a long shot, but right now the real issue is the attitude of the people. That must change.; 9/2/12, 3:40 PM
test said...: In order for his loss to help them Democrats would need to be able to distance themselves. But Obama is a conventional leftist. The only way it helps is if the economy suffers another shock that can credibly be pinned on Romney.; 9/2/12, 3:40 PM
Dante said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 3:41 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: .. the President insists that he didn't do a good enough job telling a story..

At least not like that empty chair told a story.

Matthew 13:10-17; 9/2/12, 3:44 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Yes, it will, because while Obama is in office the Democratic party will be stopped from discussing the real issues.

It's sad, but Obama has succumbed to the DC bubble like he was born and raised inside it. He literally has no clue as to what is happening outside it. As long as he is the president, he will go on defending a mythical status quo, and the Democratic party will be entrapped into defending it with him.

The Democrats can be quite strong in opposition, and maybe there they can regain their voice over policy.; 9/2/12, 3:45 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: This is no longer about telling a story.. it's about making up a story.; 9/2/12, 3:45 PM
Lance said...: Without Obama at the head, Democrat leadership falls to Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, and Wasserman-Schultz. So yes, it would be very bad for the Democrats if he loses.; 9/2/12, 3:50 PM
paul a'barge said...: Here's the deal. To help the Democrat Party, not only must Obama lose but the Democrats must lose the Senate by a large margin as well. And then the Democrat Party must purge the progressives, Lib-terds, leftists and liberals from the party.

At which point there will become only 2 viable parties in the USA, the Republican Party, which must purge the Republican establishment and the Libertarians.

And then watch the USA rock.; 9/2/12, 3:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Lindsey,

Why in the world is loosing a good thing? Ask the GOP what it feels like to lose after this election.

i guess you forgot that the most recent federal election was 2010, when the dems got their asses handed to them. I guess you've also forgotten about the special election in Wisconsin where after a year and a half of leftist agitation, Scott Walker won.; 9/2/12, 3:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Don't worry Lindsey. After the beating the dems will take this November you can still console yourself with all the casual sex you want. Whatever you do though don't try to do anything serious or meaningful. Continue your empty existence and whine that other should be forced to pay for it.; 9/2/12, 3:56 PM
DADvocate said...: Nothing will help the Democratic Party, the most worthless group of self-serving hate mongers in the country today.; 9/2/12, 3:56 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Dante, your long explanation is very impressive.. but how do you explain the relatively short, one to two year turn around, from Carter's economy to Reagan's?

It was painful.. at the beginning.. but if I remember correctly, by the time Reagan was running for reelection the economy was booming.; 9/2/12, 3:57 PM
jr565 said...: It will help the deomcrats if OBama loses.

God I hope not.; 9/2/12, 4:03 PM
Rabel said...: Depends on what Obama does while (if) out of office. I have a hard time seeing him fade into the background.; 9/2/12, 4:04 PM
rhhardin said...: It will help everybody if Obama loses.; 9/2/12, 4:04 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: You know what would help the democrats?

Hold Recall elections of all the elected officials that spoke at the GOP Convention.

Winning!!; 9/2/12, 4:07 PM
DADvocate said...: If their goal is to help people, especially Americans,

IF? IF??? Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

Ask the GOP what it feels like to lose after this election.

Like we should give a shit what anybody feels like when they lose an election. We need less feelings and more math.; 9/2/12, 4:08 PM
MadisonMan said...: It probably will.

The Republican party won't be content to work on the economy, and will start to intrude into people's private lives.

No one likes the Govt telling you what to do. The Democratic party will come back.

Pendulum swinging, etc.; 9/2/12, 4:12 PM
furious_a said...: or...

o D)It will help the Clinton Camp overall if Obama loses.

It is how they know to adjust their positions to align more closely with voters'.

Clinton learned from '94, but Obama hasn't from '10. Their prez nominees since Clinton have tacked to his left. It's not apparent Congressional Dems learned anything from their 2010 losses when they retained Nancy Pelosi as their Minority Leader.; 9/2/12, 4:20 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 4:20 PM
Eric said...: The left will just dig even deeper into its "racism is the explanation for everything" fetish.

This is probably true. They may need another beating in 2014 to get back on track.

The real question in my mind is whether the Republicans in office will view victory as a chance to make tough decisions in the interests of the nation or another chance to milk K Street.; 9/2/12, 4:20 PM
BillyTalley said...: I just voted yes. The hope is that by hitting bottom, the Left and the Democratic Party could finally engage in the self critique and reevaluation that is long overdue.

But what if it takes two Obama administrations to confirm its failure? Then the Left and the Democratic Party woud lie in its morass, anchored in an essentially 60's mentality as we drift further into the 21st century.

All indicies of success will be ignored because the Left and my Democratic Party can carry on even if it is hollowed out. It might even employ a lack of content as a new definition of success: surface reflectivity is so postmodern after all.; 9/2/12, 4:22 PM
Brian Brown said...: MadisonMan said...

No one likes the Govt telling you what to do. The Democratic party will come back.

Right.

Because if the Democratic party stands for anything, its like a bunch of "leave you alone" policies.; 9/2/12, 4:24 PM
AndyN said...: LoafingOaf said...

No it wouldn't. Because the economy will likely improve before Romney does anything and Romney would take false credit for it.

I'm kind of curious, how long do you think it will take Romney to "do anything" if he's elected? I can see the logic of saying that our economic problems are so big that nothing the president does in the short run is going to fix things, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying. For what you said to be true, the economy would have to show actual improvement before the middle of next year. Is there any credible data that predicts that happening?; 9/2/12, 4:24 PM
AndyN said...: MadisonMan said...

It probably will.

The Republican party won't be content to work on the economy, and will start to intrude into people's private lives.

You mean like passing a law requiring people to buy health insurance and then empowering a panel of unelected bureaucrats to dictate what medical procedures doctors will be paid for?; 9/2/12, 4:28 PM
David said...: Yes. Because then they will not be in power when the shit really hits the fan.

The world economy is Russian Roulette with a declining number of empty chambers. The gun is gonna go off. Whoever is holding it gets hurt real bad.; 9/2/12, 4:36 PM
Tim said...: The answer hinges on whether the Democrats reject socialism and economic fantasies, see the virtue of a limited federal government and federalism, and embrace the need for robust foreign and defense policies predicated on American interests.

But were they to do that, they'd be Republicans.

So while defeating Obama is the necessary step for improving the Democrat Party, it is hardly sufficient.; 9/2/12, 4:37 PM
Anonymous said...: OT -

Drudge's lap-dog picture of George Stephanopolis is hysterical.; 9/2/12, 4:37 PM
Big Mike said...: What will help the Democrats is if they get over themselves. If the election helps, that will be good.

But it won't help. When Obama loses it won't be because the Obama-Pelosi-Reid policies are terrible; it will be because Republicans bought the election.

Not to mention those dirty tea partiers.; 9/2/12, 4:38 PM
Tim said...: "You mean like passing a law requiring people to buy health insurance and then empowering a panel of unelected bureaucrats to dictate what medical procedures doctors will be paid for?"

Intruding into peoples' private lives to compel econom...er, tax (forgot my John Roberts there for a moment) economic activities really isn't intruding into peoples' private lives, according to all good Democrats; not endorsing same sex marriage or not paying for sex-change operations or not endorsing abortion on demand is.; 9/2/12, 4:41 PM
Penny said...: Althouse said,

"I think. Do you agree?"

Yes, I agree that you think, but it's up to you to determine exactly what that means...I think?

Cogito ergo sum; 9/2/12, 4:43 PM
edutcher said...: Of course not, for 2 reasons.

1 They go into heavy denial and cry, "Rrraaacccciiisssmm".

Did losing in '00 make them any better? They just cried, "We wuz robbed".

2 As Lance notes, it'as still the party of Dingy Harry, Pelosi Galore, and (my $.02) Willie and Hilla. It's still gonna be the party of the Hard Left and these people don't learn.

If they did, they wouldn't be a pack of small c communists.; 9/2/12, 4:52 PM
edutcher said...: PS The wave of the future for the Republicans is Mia Love, Allen West, Scott Walker, Nikki Haley, and Susana Martinez.

The wave of the future for the Demos is Ms Fluck.

PPS If they're smart, they'll keep her away from Willie.; 9/2/12, 4:54 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 5:00 PM
Tim said...: Who sells Coitreau cheaper? Total Wine or Bevmo?; 9/2/12, 5:06 PM
cubanbob said...: The democrats are like alcoholics that haven't reached bottom. Until they lose massively they just wont get it.; 9/2/12, 5:09 PM
Tim said...: Cointreau is cheaper at Total Wine: $28.99 v. 34.99 at Bevmo.

Easy call.

Margaritas for dinner tonight.

Got build up my courage before searching for Lindsey Meadows' oeuvre on the 'net.; 9/2/12, 5:12 PM
Paddy O said...: "Who sells Coitreau cheaper? Total Wine or Bevmo?"

The right answer is to wait for the Episcopalian priest to bring over a free bottle of Cointreau.

I hear they do that on occasion.; 9/2/12, 5:18 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 5:19 PM
somefeller said...: Interesting thought experiments on display here. So let's explore the other side of the coin. Will it help the GOP overall if (when?) Romney loses? And if that happens, what lessons should Republicans take from that? I'm seeing lots of opining here, so I'm sure there will be some good responses to these questions.; 9/2/12, 5:20 PM
edutcher said...: It would be an opening for the tea Partiers.; 9/2/12, 5:21 PM
edutcher said...: PS More an issue of if than when, given all of Barry's troubles.; 9/2/12, 5:31 PM
Erich Schwarz said...: On what time scale? Probably Obama's reelection would help the Democrats ... for about 3-6 months between Election Night and the opening months of Obama's second term. Then Obama would continue his Negative Midas Touch straight into 2016.

By Nov. 2016, the idea of voting for any Dem for any office would probably seem like gobbling down cyanide to most voters, if they're even still on board with the idea of the U.S. remaining a single country (they might not be, given another four years of Obama's rule-or-ruin tactics).

So it all depends on what time scale you're thinking about the question. Beating Romney/Ryan would feel great for a short while. So would another shot of heroin. Neither's good for years, though.; 9/2/12, 5:34 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: So I guess I'm being asked whether I agree with the proposition that Obama's loss to a more lie-based, more socially dysfunctional/disinterested administration would be a good thing for his party, or by extension, for the American people.

No. I disagree.

If you believe in government of the bribed, by the bribed and for the bribed, then just come right out and say so.

But I am allowed to think that this is a fundamentally bad thing. And an immoral thing.

The fact that it has become the norm in the American political system, particularly on the right, is to America's shame. The fact that you are impervious to how discrediting and embarrassing that is says something.; 9/2/12, 5:54 PM
JohnJ said...: I think so; maybe the repubs, too. Mostly as a lesson on the fragility of a media-driven narrative.

Are you paying attention, Marco Rubio?; 9/2/12, 5:57 PM
Paddy O said...: "with the proposition that Obama's loss to a more lie-based, more socially dysfunctional/disinterested administration would be a good thing for his party, or by extension, for the American people."

You think Obama is going to run against himself this election!?; 9/2/12, 6:05 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: The myth of a democratic socialist society funded by capitalism is finished.

"What is being challenged is nothing less than the most basic premise of the politics of the centre ground: that you can have free market economics and a democratic socialist welfare system at the same time. The magic formula in which the wealth produced by the market economy is redistributed by the state – from those who produce it to those whom the government believes deserve it – has gone bust. The crash of 2008 exposed a devastating truth that went much deeper than the discovery of a generation of delinquent bankers, or a transitory property bubble. It has become apparent to anyone with a grip on economic reality that free markets simply cannot produce enough wealth to support the sort of universal entitlement programmes which the populations of democratic countries have been led to expect. The fantasy may be sustained for a while by the relentless production of phoney money to fund benefits and job-creation projects, until the economy is turned into a meaningless internal recycling mechanism in the style of the old Soviet Union."

Answer: If the GOP does not win this one, the American people will lose. Big time.; 9/2/12, 6:07 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: "Mitt Romney had been hinting, in an oblique, undeveloped way, at this line of argument as he moved tentatively toward finding a real message. Then he took the startling step of appointing Congressman Paul Ryan as his running mate, and the earth moved. If Romney was the embodiment of the spirit of a free market, Ryan was its prophet. His speech at the convention was so dangerous to the Obama Democrats, with their aspirations toward European-style democratic socialism, that they unleashed their “fact checkers” to find mistakes (“lies”) in it. (Remember the old Yes Minister joke: “You can always accuse them of errors of detail, sir. There are always some errors of detail”.) When Romney and Ryan offer their arguments to the American people, they are, of course, at an advantage over almost any British or European politician. Contrary to what many know-nothing British observers seem to think, the message coming out of Tampa was not Tea Party extremism. It was just a reassertion of the basic values of American political culture: self-determination, individual aspiration and genuine community, as opposed to belief in the state as the fount of all social virtue. Romney caught this rather nicely in his acceptance speech, with the comment that the US was built on the idea of “a system that is dedicated to creating tomorrow’s prosperity rather than trying to redistribute today’s.” Or as Marco Rubio put it in his speech, Obama is “trying ideas that people came to America to get away from”.; 9/2/12, 6:11 PM
greenlantern said...: This is the wrong question, that is to say, there is no question about this: The Democratic party is on the road to obliteration.; 9/2/12, 6:13 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: You think Obama is going to run...

Google divorce rates by state and watch how the red states and blue states compare, Mr. Non-Fact Based, Simple-Minded Word Inversions work for Me!; 9/2/12, 6:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Blogger greenlantern said...

This is the wrong question, that is to say, there is no question about this: The Democratic party is on the road to obliteration.

9/2/12 6:13 PM
__________________________________

This is exactly what the Dems said about the Reps in 2008.; 9/2/12, 6:17 PM
Gary Rosen said...: I voted no because the Dems are too in thrall to their leftist base to learn the lesson even if BO loses in a landslide (I think he will lose but more likely in a close race). This was apparent to me in 2004 even before BO emerged as a national figure and is the reason I left the party after a lifetime of voting D.

The MSM is losing credibility with the general public but that will only make them double down more as "voice of the left" to shore up their own "base". That will keep the echo chamber going and keep the Dems from making the needed changes.; 9/2/12, 6:18 PM
B said...: Depends on whether or not the Democrats restrain their marching morons. if they do, they can come back. If they don't, they'll have a hard time distancing themselves from any repeat of the lunacy they teed up in during the Bush presidency. Different times and a different president. That sort of thing won't go unchallenged this time around.; 9/2/12, 6:22 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: It would actually help everyone if the Democrats lost and moved more to the center.

We are much too polarized politically as it is. There used to be some middle ground that well meaning people could agree on. Things used to be able to be accomplished. Instead now, there is no getting together. Name calling and vicious attacking. There is no acknowledgement that each other side might....just might...have some redeeming qualities.

There will always be those extremists on both sides. However, those groups were small. Today we are a country of polar opposites.; 9/2/12, 6:24 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: I think David has it right. Some very serious chickens are going to come home to roost in the next four years and whoever is in the White House will be blamed regardless of who is actually responsible.
The bad news for the Donks is that the Old Media is committing mass suicide in their frantic attempts to help re-elect Barky and won't have jack for credibility left when the dust settles; 9/2/12, 6:32 PM
Unknown said...: It will help some, but the problem with either parties isn't so much the other party. Both have internal problems that make governing tough.

The goals of the grass roots conservatives are opposed to the corporate/business conservatives, and the goals of the grass roots liberal are opposed to the progressive liberals.

Whichever party wins, the opposing factions in that party end up in opposition. Doesnt matter if democrats or republicans come to power, the factions within the winning party cannot hold together once the opposition party is defeated. The objectives of either partys factions are entirely in opposite directions.

These opposing factiond are usually somewhat balanced, but it seems the Dems are going more and more progressive while the Repubs are going more for tea party candidates. With enough unbalance in either party, congress might have a better chance of getting something done: albeit for good or bad.

Until we acknowledge this, we wont understand why each time we vote to rearrange congress, and the office of president: we often end worse for our efforts. As long as we are blind faithful party followers, we will also be blind to the opposing factions, and the harm it does to any party.; 9/2/12, 6:35 PM
test said...: Ritmo Segundo said...If you believe in government of the bribed, by the bribed and for the bribed, then just come right out and say so.

But I am allowed to think that this is a fundamentally bad thing. And an immoral thing.

The fact that it has become the norm in the American political system, particularly on the right, is to America's shame.

Ritmo is the new Cook: diagnose a problem, then support a party whose very reason for existence is to support the problem you claim to be against.

It probably works on college kids.; 9/2/12, 6:51 PM
chickelit said...: I voted yes because, like Meade, I think that bad things lead to good things and work as excuses for political decisions.; 9/2/12, 6:51 PM
Hagar said...: I just watched the Evening News and believe the word has been passed in the MSM that Clint Eastwood is not to be attacked, and for the Republicans he is like the man upon the stairs who was not there.; 9/2/12, 7:03 PM
Hagar said...: and they clearly wish he would go away.; 9/2/12, 7:32 PM
Donald said...: I think, frankly, that Reid and Pelosi are much worse for the party than Obama.

If the GOP argument is accepted...that this is 1980 and Obama = Carter, it's hard to imagine that a loss helps the Democratic Party. Romney is certainly no Reagan, but the GOP did control the White House for the next 12 years. And while the Dems kept control in Congress, Pelosi is no Tip.; 9/2/12, 7:37 PM
damikesc said...: No it wouldn't. Because the economy will likely improve before Romney does anything and Romney would take false credit for it.

That was a concern in 2008. That nobody could make things worse.

...but, man, Obama managed to pull it off.; 9/2/12, 7:37 PM
Ned said...: When obama loses the real winner will be the USA and its citizens...
(Probably doesn't make a bit of sense to those that voted for him...they are yet to understand the destruction they facilitated); 9/2/12, 8:00 PM
smitty1e said...: I submit that the modern Democrat party, and vast swaths of the GOP, for that matter, are toast.
That is, Progressivism has run its course.; 9/2/12, 8:20 PM
Joe Schmoe said...: The Democratic Party won't change. They are waaayyyy too invested in their ideology at this point. Look at Europe. They're doubling down on government-redistribution of wealth, this time from nation to nation.

Losing the presidency and the Senate won't be a significant enough catalyst for the Democrats to fundamentally change. I don't think anything is going to fundamentally change without a big-ass world event that makes everyone step back, say 'holy shit', and stop playing games.; 9/2/12, 8:20 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: one more quote. This one is just so spot on. Beer anyone?

“President Obama has consistently been absent, more concerned about branding than leadership, with image and atmospherics than truly rallying the troops and harnessing our resources and solving our most pressing problems. He turned over the task of crafting solutions on the stimulus bill and the health care bill to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, who predictably butchered it. He botched the budget compromise with John Boehner and withdrew from the process. When he thought that partisan gridlock in Congress might make him look bad, rather than forging into the gridlock and navigating a way forward he withdrew to the White House and played over 100 rounds of golf. The problem for President Obama is that the soaring oratory will not work this time. The contrast between the rhetoric and his actual achievements is too great.”

-T Darlymple; 9/2/12, 8:22 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: A Dem loss will accelerate the party's purge of the hideous, obnoxious baby boomers currently in their leadership ranks. They, on average, have ugly, unappealing personalities and include Pelosi, Reid, Shumer, Shankowsky, Barney Fwank, and many others.

A Dem loss may lead also to a purge in the MSM of the far left baby boomers like Mathews, Frideman, ODonnell, Andrea Micthell, Modo, etc.; 9/2/12, 8:36 PM
somefeller said...: Well, one thing's for sure. The possibility of a Democratic loss of the White House in 2012 has fired up the purge fantasies from the resentful loser wing of the conservative movement. Just look at the comments of AJ Lynch, Smitty1e and Paul A'Barge above. Hate to break it to you guys, but liberalism and the Democratic Party will survive an Obama loss in 2012, though I wouldn't bet on such a loss anyway. But guys like you will still be standing with your noses pressed up against the window, stewing as you watch the people you loathe laughing and having a good time inside the restaurant, regardless of the election results.; 9/2/12, 8:52 PM
edutcher said...: Some phony folksy's channeling his shiloh personality again.

Too bad because he's talking about Liberalism, which hasn't been around since McGovern ran in '72. What supplanted Liberalism was what William Ayers gave name to - Leftism, radicalism, and small c communism and it's taking a bad beating.

Barry Ozero is only its most obvious exponent. The people who gave us Stimulus and ObamaTax are just as much the face of it and, until they go down, the Demos face a very rocky future.

Radicalism has been tried for 40 years and it's flopped. That some phony folksy thinks he can dress it up so it can be sold again is pure illusion on his part.

The Democrats and the Left in general are going to have to go through a very agonizing reappraisal because all their signature issues are being co-opted by the Republicans. They are being outflanked because of their own excesses and that is the lesson of the past 4 years.

somefeller said...

Well, one thing's for sure. The possibility of a Democratic loss of the White House in 2012 has fired up the purge fantasies from the resentful loser wing of the conservative movement

Projection like this, Bell&Howell has never achieved. If anybody has talked about purges the last decade, it's the Left.

Remember all those wet dreams about Dubya's assassination?

I wouldn't bet on such a loss anyway. But guys like you will still be standing with your noses pressed up against the window, stewing as you watch the people you loathe laughing and having a good time inside the restaurant, regardless of the election results.

I would. Things are looking very bad for Zero, just if you look at his actions, forget the polls.

And it's the Conservatives who are happy. It's the Lefties who marinate in their own bile.

The Lefties' own pollsters admit it.; 9/2/12, 9:04 PM
somefeller said...: And speaking of resentful losers...; 9/2/12, 9:05 PM
ricpic said...: The only bright light on the horizon for the Democrats should Obama lose would be Andrew Cuomo, a hard leftist who appears non-threatening despite his central role, as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, in forcing banks to make sub-prime loans, the single biggest factor in the implosion of the economy in 2008 and our present non-recovery from that implosion. He remains totally committed to that kind of disastrous social engineering and yet is seen as a moderate governor by New Yorkers. A moderate who won't take on the teachers' unions, the environmentalists whose anti-fracking success has consigned upstate to permanent depressed status, or the endemic corruption in Albany. So that's what the Dems will offer in 2016, a hard lefty who somehow, by an act of prestidigitation, does nice.; 9/2/12, 9:15 PM
Tim said...: Paddy O said...

""Who sells Coitreau cheaper? Total Wine or Bevmo?"

The right answer is to wait for the Episcopalian priest to bring over a free bottle of Cointreau."

I hear you, but as an Irish Catholic within walking distance of my local parish church, I'm pretty sure the Episcopalian priest isn't coming over anytime soon with the Cointreau.

Anyway, got the bottle, got the limes and lemons (I use half lemon and half lime juice - an apostasy yes, I confess), the repasodo and salt, and, well, here I am. Half finished.

Classic ratio: 7 parts tequila, 4 parts Cointreau, 3 parts lime (and lemon, lol!) juice.

Best summer coctail, ever.

But winters are for Manhattans.

Which is superior to all other cocktails ever invented, or imagined.

Do I dare check out Lindsey Meadow's history on film?

Hopefully, IMDB has the list. Safer that way, I fear...; 9/2/12, 9:15 PM
Tim said...: "The problem for President Obama is that the soaring oratory will not work this time. The contrast between the rhetoric and his actual achievements is too great.”

-T Darlymple

And the problem for Obama, and Obama voters, is that they never understood that Obama was never qualified for office. His utter lack of experience, as compared to any other nominee for the office from a major political party is shocking, on even just a cursory examination.

That he thought himself qualified for office indicates extreme hubris (far worse than the hubris for which liberals gleefully accused Bush) and narcissism (for which Bush was never, or infrequently, accused). To some degree, that is forgivable, in the sense that our weaknesses that compel ill-actions are forgivable.

What isn't forgivable is the mass idiocy on parade displayed by the 53% who actually voted for this doomed to fail, affirmative-action candidate. His lack of qualification for office was nakedly transparent; his political values grindingly out-of-sync with a center-right electorate; that 53% of the electorate duped themselves into buying the grifter's argument is to their shame and discredit, not Obama's.

In short, Obama doesn't know what he's doing; his values take him to places not suitable to America; and the sooner America, and the Democrat Party, is done of him, the better for all.

That won't fix Shiloh and Garage Mahal and the others.

In some cases, it's just best to flush the toilet.; 9/2/12, 9:30 PM
kentuckyliz said...: I love Manhattans. Mmmmmmm; 9/2/12, 9:37 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: No, because the point of the Democratic party is not only to win elections but to do something with the power they won.

Obama, as far as I can tell, is pushing the Democratic agenda as far as he possibly can while still having a chance at reelection. That's the entire point, it seems to me, so of course it's better if Obama wins.; 9/2/12, 9:40 PM
Lyle said...: It's going to make progressives worse, because they will double down if Obama loses.

There isn't a moderate, Clintonian, wing to the Democrat party anymore.; 9/2/12, 9:41 PM
Alex said...: You know Israel is probably going to launch a war in October to force Obama's hand. That will dominate the remaining weeks of the election.; 9/2/12, 9:41 PM
Ann Althouse said...: @Paddy

LOL

Good memory!; 9/2/12, 9:42 PM
Tim said...: According to IMDB, our Lindsay Meadows has 115 porn films.

That seems like a lot.

But what do I know?; 9/2/12, 9:52 PM
Robert Cook said...: "It would actually help everyone if the Democrats lost and moved more to the center."

So you think they should move left? I concur.; 9/2/12, 9:55 PM
Beldar said...: Obama is THE LEADER of the Democratic Party.

Unless and until the party abandons him, it's stupid and meaningless to pretend that there's any distinction between him and the party. He is its intellectual leader, he is its most powerful leader, he is its symbol, and every other Democratic leader defers to him in every important matter, even the Clintons.

I'm not saying this is true of all presidents or all party nominees. I don't think it's true of Mitt Romney, for example. But it is true of Obama, and if anyone tries to stray from the Cult of Obama, a/k/a the current Democratic Party, will discipline him or her.

So this is like asking "Will it help Obama if Obama loses." It's a ridiculous question.; 9/2/12, 9:57 PM
Penny said...: Remember how we all groan about how kids are coddled too much these days?

How it really isn't good for them that we always need to make them ALL feel like "winners", even when they aren't?; 9/2/12, 10:26 PM
Penny said...: Good!; 9/2/12, 10:26 PM
Penny said...: So which is it?

Ease up or buck up?; 9/2/12, 10:28 PM
Penny said...: Surely what's "good thinking" for political parties is "good thinking" for our kids.; 9/2/12, 10:29 PM
Revenant said...: So you think they should move left? I concur

The center is not the point located between "you" and "everyone else", Bob. :); 9/2/12, 10:49 PM
harrogate said...: The Lewis Carroll dynamic to this thread is striking.; 9/2/12, 10:57 PM
Baron Zemo said...: The Democrats will remain the Democrats no matter what happens with young Barry.

They will enjoy their abortions, gay marriages and welfare.

It's what they do!

Joy!; 9/2/12, 11:00 PM
Tim said...: kentuckyliz said...

"I love Manhattans. Mmmmmmm"

Oh yeah.

Try this, if you haven't yet:

In a cocktail shaker with ice put:

3 parts Bulleit Rye Whiskey (a really good Rye Whiskey, at a really good price)

Dolin Vermouth de Chambéry Rouge (Sweet Vermouth)

Two to three dashes of Angostura bitters;

Stir 30 seconds or so, strain into a stem cocktail glass, garnish with one Maraschino cherry.

The rye whiskey makes all the difference. A little peppery (much more flavorful than a bourbon Manhattan, I think).

Try it. I don't think you'll regret it.; 9/2/12, 11:16 PM
Tim said...: One part of Dolin Vermouth de Chambéry Rouge (Sweet Vermouth), I meant to write.; 9/2/12, 11:17 PM
Revenant said...: Because the economy will likely improve before Romney does anything and Romney would take false credit for it.

The Republicans lost in '92, and Clinton promptly took credit for the recovery (despite it starting slightly before his inauguration).

But it worked out well in the end; the Republicans came surging back in '94, taking control of Congress for the first time in more than a generation. A lot of the old guard Republicans (and Democrats) found themselves out on their asses. So even if Romney "takes credit", don't lose hope.

This is all a moot point, of course, since there's no rational reason to think we're recovering. Most non-partisan economists are expecting a double-dip recession.; 9/2/12, 11:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Nothing will help the Democrats as long as they remain seduced and controlled by the heirs of the sixties New Left.; 9/3/12, 12:15 AM
Anonymous said...: phx,

Keep it personal, keep it classy.

You speak out of ignorance. Lindsey declared her use of casual sex on Althouse's site just days ago. The classy Lindsey you defend equated a speech with being violated.

If Lindsey's approach to casual sex was in any way person, why would she boast about it so publicly?

Maybe you should try not to be so ignorant, phx.; 9/3/12, 12:21 AM
Penny said...: "The center is not the point located between "you" and "everyone else", Bob."

Um...Revanant?

Bob's the guy in the pool with no arms and no legs...

So? Maybe, just this one time?; 9/3/12, 1:08 AM
edutcher said...: somefeller said...

And speaking of resentful losers...

Is there a screen wide enough for that projection?

And, once again, no rebuttal.

creeley23 said...

Nothing will help the Democrats as long as they remain seduced and controlled by the heirs of the sixties New Left

Precisely.; 9/3/12, 5:48 AM
Mick said...: Count on the Left to double and triple down on the lies they tell. Not that the right, in its current form, is much better. Count on the left to continue to be on the UnAmerican and ungodly side of everything.; 9/3/12, 5:48 AM
Molly said...: Defining "helps" strictly to mean "improves chances of Dems winning the 2016 presidential vote" (and I realize that's far from the only definition), Obama losing in 2012 helps.

If Obama wins, a 2016 nominee could be someone like Md Gov O'Malley, who has a program and record that fits nicely into current dem thinking in all respects.

If Obama loses, a 2016 nominee could be someone like NY gov Cuomo, who has stepped out of the dem mainstream by taking on public unions and pensions.

By 2016, Cuomo will be more in line with the electorate.

In addition, it is historically harder for any party to win three presidential elections in a row. Since Roosevelt, only Reagan-Bush 1 did this.; 9/3/12, 6:28 AM
frank said...: Hey Ann--any chance we get to comment on child sex predator tourist Mark Pocan or do you just vote for him?; 9/3/12, 6:42 AM
Rusty said...: kentuckyliz said...
I love Manhattans. Mmmmmmm

I'm going to try Tims recipe, but if you like a sweeter manhatten try 100 proof Southern Comfort instead of bourbon.; 9/3/12, 7:28 AM
Rusty said...: Marshal said...
Ritmo Segundo said...If you believe in government of the bribed, by the bribed and for the bribed, then just come right out and say so.

But I am allowed to think that this is a fundamentally bad thing. And an immoral thing.

The fact that it has become the norm in the American political system, particularly on the right, is to America's shame.

Ritmo is the new Cook: diagnose a problem, then support a party whose very reason for existence is to support the problem you claim to be against.

It probably works on college kids.

It's why you don't engage them- the commutitive property of dumb.; 9/3/12, 7:42 AM
Joe Schmoe said...: Noooo, wouldn't want the economy to improve on the other party's watch.

Jeebus on a popsicle stick. We are doomed.; 9/3/12, 8:36 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Being a contrarian of sorts here, if the goal of politics is to win elections, I do think that the Dems need to lose big another time or two before they can come back to reality.

They managed to retake Congress six years ago through a couple of somewhat related factors. One was that the Republicans had lost their way, allowing pay-for-play politicians like DeLay to rise to the top. We are seeing some of this already with the new House leadership (I am thinking, in particular, about Lamar Smith, House Judiciary Chair). Secondly, the MSM pushed the anti-Bush meme so hard for so long, that a lot of people turned away from the Republicans. Thirdly, the Dems recruited a lot of moderate candidates in swing districts and states. A lot of them are now gone, leaving the party with mostly hard core leftists as their national politicians.

The, not very surprising, result of this was that they implemented policies that pretty much guaranteed that the recession would be deeper and much longer than any in most of our memories, and implemented policies, such as ObamaCare, that are horribly bad for this country.

I think that the Tea Party is the face of the new Republican party. The Dems need their own such movement, to redefine what they are really for (above and beyond power for its own sake, which is where they are now). But, since they have been in power for the last 4 (President) to 6 (Senate) years, it has been impossible to get such a grass roots movement going. They thought that "Occupy" would be the ticket, but it turned out to be a farce.

Think of it as alcohol or drug dependency. You have to hit bottom before you can climb out, and the Dems have yet to do so. They have always had enough ultra-rich people able to self-finance Senate and gubernatorial races in red states that they could stay close, even when the Republicans were in power.

And, why should they have to change? I would suggest because they are stuck in a 1930s big city machine paradigm of power groups sitting around the table splitting up the loot. And, their public persona has headed in a wacky direction that seems to turn off more and more people every day - as evidenced by Republicans taking over the advantage in party affiliation.; 9/3/12, 10:00 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: .If you believe in government of the bribed, by the bribed and for the bribed, then just come right out and say so.

The fact that it has become the norm in the American political system, particularly on the right, is to America's shame.

Hopefully, I can refine this a bit. This is something that the Dems of course accept as inevitable in politics, and, indeed, is the reason for politics for a lot of them. Has been at least since FDR built the modern Democratic party coalition 80 years ago. They expect their politicians to be corrupt and to siphon some off for themselves - after all, that is one of the purposes of big city politics.

The problem here is that it is not acceptable for Republicans to do so. The Dems don't really care, except to the extent that they can paint the Reps as hypocrites. Rather, the rank and file view big government as their biggest problem, and politicians taking money for favors, etc., as a big part of the problem. And, thus, the Tom DeLays (and now Lamar Smiths) are seen as traitors to the cause.; 9/3/12, 10:08 AM
somefeller said...: Bruce Hayden says:And, thus, the Tom DeLays (and now Lamar Smiths) are seen as traitors to the cause.

You may not like Lamar Smith, but he's still a GOP Congressman in good standing and I don't see much evidence of that changing. And Tom DeLay wasn't exactly a pariah in GOP circles until very recently and he still has his defenders and allies. Don't kid yourself about that, and the rest of your argument is basically a "No true Scotsman" fallacy that doesn't comport with politics in the real world.; 9/3/12, 11:19 AM
Sam L. said...: Revenant, what you said is how it should be, but I'll note the Dems seem to have learned nothing from th Tea Party romp in 2010. I expect they'll not learn anything this time, either.

DBQ, in this case i suspect the long term is very long term. They'll have to get past the denial, and the denial in them is very strong.

I didn't vote; the answers are alle.too short-term. As I said abovb; 9/3/12, 8:44 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Could it be that, gee, American political parties go through cycles?

They win until they screw up, then keep losing until they figure out how to win (while the other party screws up)?

The cycles are unusually short lately, but there's nothing new about it otherwise.; 9/4/12, 2:17 AM