August 24, 2012

"No one's ever asked to see my birth certificate. They know that this is the place where we were born and raised."

Said Mitt Romney at a campaign stop today in Michigan — "this place where Ann and I were raised, where both of us were born." Video at the link.

I'm seeing some charges that this was a "birther" joke and even that it was racist. I guess it hit a nerve.

Anyway, it's obviously not racist. In fact, it's more racist to call it racist. To see it as racist, you have to have a background belief that to think of someone as a natural-born citizen is to think of him as white. Who thinks that?!

And it's also not "birther" to say what Romney said. A birther is someone who thinks or isn't sure that Obama was born in one of the United States. But the joke doesn't depend on the listener being a birther. You simply have to understand that people had enough questions about where Obama was born that they wanted to see the proof. People don't have those questions about Romney, so no one ever asked him to prove it. That's all Romney said.

Now, we could look more deeply into why people had these questions about Obama. These questions certainly weren't because Obama is black (or half-black). The questions were because his father was not an American citizen, because his mother — and young Obama — lived for a substantial amount of time outside of the United States, and because — to some people at least — Obama hasn't seemed sufficiently American. (He doesn't identify with American exceptionalism, he sat still for "God damn America" sermons, and so forth.)

Romney is saying — in so many words — I'm more truly and fundamentally American than Barack Obama. And the implication is: I want you to think about the ways that Obama hasn't fully embraced American values of freedom, capitalism, etc. etc.

Of course, you don't have to be born in America to have those values. I imagine Ted Cruz has those values, and he was born in Canada. He might make a great Senator from Texas soon, but he can never be President. We don't need to see his birth certificate, because it's no secret. He's not qualified to be President, and it's no disparagement of him to say that. But notably — and pay attention now, because this should help with understanding Romney's joke — no one running against Cruz would make a joke about his being born outside of the United States. Romney's (implicit) joke about Obama works not because of where he was actually born, but because of much more substantive ideas about commitment to foundational American values.

ADDED: Instapundit agrees with me and adds that the press will miss this point and, thinking the joke hurts Romney, will "spread the idea further than Romney could on his own." He also prints email from a reader saying  "Why does Ann Althouse assume Ted Cruz is not eligible to be President just because he was born in Calgary? Both of his parents were American at the time of his birth, and his mother was American by birth." I didn't mean to be the first Ted Cruz birther! I agree that if both your parents are American citizens and you are therefore an American citizen at birth, that's good enough for the constitutional requirement.

294 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 294 of 294
Lem said...

Few of us will ever forget where we were when we first learned of The Romney Birth Certificate Joke.

Howard said...

What Crosspatch Said:

"I disagree. See, he wasn't speaking to the nation, he was speaking to that (White) crowd and that specific (White) place. He was saying "I am one of you, and you know it. We share the same (White) values, we share the same (White) upbringing, we share the same (White) vision for our lives and our children's lives". That is what that meant to say, in my opinion."

You are exactly right-on about the dog-whistle message.

8/24/12 7:52 PM

Anonymous said...

kcom said...

"Do you even understand the meaning of the word 'racist'?

Why yes I do. I know what racist means. I also know what putz means. I know it when I see it and you appear to fit.

Rich B said...

Romney: comedian. Is there anything he can't do?

Wally Kalbacken said...

It's not even a mistake.

I would analogize it to Reagan in the 2nd debate with Mondale in 1984 when the issue of age came up. His response was a joke, and everyone, including Mondale laughed at the joke, and Mondale was the joke from that moment forward.

I start skeptical of Romney's communication skills, but have to admit that he is hitting a lot of stuff just right so far, this comment included. Obama's press spokesmen and surrogates will wet the bed, and that only reinforces the point that voters are already comfortable that Romney will be an American President.

Revenant said...

Kidding aside, it would be interesting to see if birtherism would rear its head in the case of a white candidate

Romney's dad, for example?

Chip Ahoy said...

I just now looked at Politifact and went down the statements people make, and I must say, Mitt Romney does not fare very well at all. Nearly everything he says is half true a mostly false, almost none is totally true. Obama does better with his statements according to Politifact. It's fun, you can go back in time to earlier statements and challenge their conclusions as you go. It was a strange experience, actually, I kept reading their little assessment and hearing your voices behind them contesting as you do, and I don't even know what you sound like.

Weeee I don't have to guess a word for now.

Lem said...

I propose we appoint Lindsey Meadows as the blogs African American Monitor..


David R. Graham said...

"Something has been made a topic: Obama's insufficient commitment to American values.

That was hard to do and Romney did it.

The other side is trying to defend, so we can see that the blow hurt."

... garage, Daahling, could you possibly manage to look a little less funereal?

Andy Freeman said...

> The birther issue is racist.

Do you really think that birthers think that all blacks were born in Indonesia?

Or, are you using racism to mean something other than "attributing some characteristic to someone based on the color of said someone's skin/ethnicity"?

Paco Wové said...

Dear Angry Cigarette Woman:

Surely if it is "racist!" to assume there is a standard physiognomy for a country (the U.S.A.) surely it is even more "racist!" -- maybe "racy racy McRacist!!!" to assume there is a "classical" face for a whole freaking continent (Africa), n'est-ce pas?

David R. Graham said...

"...and that only reinforces the point that voters are already comfortable that Romney will be an American President."

As long as he's seen willing and able to throw out bad apples and cut off dead wood he's in. Making jokes about the criminal classes running the current Executive Branch and deeply embedded in the other two Branches, signals that he is willing and able to do that.

Laughing at evil is the strongest, most devastating response to it. Since 1968, Ds as a party have been hurtling without mitigation for evil. No wonder decent people like Jim Webb and Brian Baird won't play for them.

Indigo Red said...

"We birthers believe that the Constitution's requirement that the President be a "natural born citizen..."

Was Romney a C-section baby? I don't want any Caesareans as president - they aren't natural born.

Eric said...

Well kcom is all yours kids. What precisely do Americans look like kcom?

Actually he's right. In the US, Obama is black. In Africa he's colored. They would not accept him as black.

Eric said...

Was Romney a C-section baby? I don't want any Caesareans as president - they aren't natural born.

Oh? A man can't be president if he's "from his mother's womb untimely ripp'd"? Man, Macbeth would be unstoppable in the US!

Thucydides said...

I love the furious cries of "racism" from people who would never have accepted Colin Powell as President (a very real possibility in 1996 BTW, had he decided to run), not because he ws black, but because he was Republican.

Howard said...

The birther nod was no misstep by Rombot. Evangelicals often believe that Catholics and Mormons are tools of the devil. Since he needs his batshit crazy base to turn out, brightening the ethnic contrast is part of Mitty's assembly language.

Eric said...

I love the furious cries of "racism" from people who would never have accepted Colin Powell as President (a very real possibility in 1996 BTW, had he decided to run), not because he ws black, but because he was Republican.

Don't kid yourself. There are just as many actual racists in the Democratic party as in the Republican.

David R. Graham said...

"Something has been made a topic: Obama's insufficient commitment to American values.

That was hard to do and Romney did it."

Yup.

Timotheus said...

I honestly thought that Romney was making fun of Trump when he made the joke.

Paulio said...

I think althouse has lived in Madison and worked at uw too long. Her assumptions are getting sloppy. Plenty of people are making the "unamerican assumption" about Obama at least in part because of race. Ann, do you know any racists? You should meet some. I'm not saying this tis he primary reason for the unamerican assumption, but it does exist and it isn't hard to find. Just maybe not among the people Ann knows.

Lem said...

I honestly thought that Romney was making fun of Trump when he made the joke.

Here is the thing..

Obama can joke about it.. but Romney cant..

Why?

Ken said...

Andy R,

Why are so many people hung up on Obama's birth certificate, and yet no one asked to see Romney's?

You are a giant dumbass. Romney didn't tell the whole world he was born in another country, then change his story when he decided to run for president. Ann Romney didn't talk about going to visit Africa to visit Mitt's home country. Romney isn't withholding his college transcripts because they likely showed he was admitted to college as a foreign exchange student.

furious_a said...

There are more than a few people who refuse the notion of a black president...

There are those who voted for Pres. Obama the first time to prove they weren't racists, and there will be those who will vote for him a second time to prove that they are fools.

Revenant said...

Plenty of people are making the "unamerican assumption" about Obama at least in part because of race

Perhaps, but not as many who make the "Obama's a good President" assumption at least in part because of his race.

If Obama was a white guy you would never have heard of him in the first place; Hillary Clinton would be President. :)

Ken said...

Jake Diamond,

"Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico."

Yep, in a polygamist commune.


Don't forget that Barack Obama Sr was an actual polygamist, not just someone born in a polygamist commune.

EMD said...

Romney's dad, for example?

I suppose, but I have no recollection of what was said about George Romney when he ran for Governor.

We also didn't have a 24-hour news cycle and Gotcha-School grads clogging up cable back then.

Jack Okie said...

Another Ready, Fire, Aim from C4. It's not where people are born, it's whether they are naturalized citizens before they have kids.

"Native born", i.e. born on the country's territory, vs "Natural born", i.e., born of two citizen (naturalized is OK). See Vattel's Law of Nations.

John Cunningham said...

Too hilarious to see the Lefties here bleating like sheep over Mitt getting in a sly dig at Comrade Urkel. Choom is such a stiff dope that I could see the possibility of him blowing up at a reporter or in a town hall meeting.
Can the "racist" crap, puh-lease. you Commies have been riding that steed for 80+ years, it's well past the sell-by date.

furious_a said...

...is that Obama might not be sufficiently American.

...and with the OFA Dashboard kicking off their "btw did you know he's a Mormon"
whisper campaign, Yin and Yang are in balance.

roadkill said...

"To be fair, though, you didn't have to get elected to the military."

Not true, Eric. I got a letter telling me that my draft board elected me to serve in the military during the Vietnam War.

Unknown said...

My little girls were born abroad to one foreign parent (mom) and one American parent (me). They, too, are American citizens from birth.

marklewin said...

As in "Maniac" Mark Lewin from Georgia Championship Wrestling circa 1980?

Great Get! Actually Mark Lewin circa Detroit and Toronto in the mid to late sixties, when the Sheik was at his peak and George was governor of Michigan.

furious_a said...

I love the furious cries of "racism" from people who...never have accepted Clarence Thomas as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court.

kcom said...

"Why yes I do. I know what racist means."

Clearly, from your use of the term, you don't. By your reckoning, all anthropologists are racists because they recognize the fact that human populations vary from place to place. Was the anthropologist in Kpakemai village down the road from me wasting his time there when he could have been back in the States in Indiana doing the same work? (The secret answer to that question is simple. People in Kpakemai don't live the same way as the people in Bloomington.)

Or are you saying that all black people look the same to you? Because that sounds way more racist than anything anyone else on this blog has said tonight. Why don't you get out, and get to know more people before you start making blanket pronouncements about people and places you have no acquaintance with.

Mike said...

Re: marklewin

Ha! I knew it!

exhelodrvr1 said...

Lem,
Please clarify - is she the monitor who is African-American, or is she the monitor of all things AFrican-American?

Chuck66 said...

I'll say it again. Except for ultra-wealthly blue-bloods Roosevelt and Kennedy, all presidents from Harding to Bush 43 grew up very normal American. They played in high school bands, were in class plays, Boy Scouts, church groups, great atheletes, went camping, marched in July 4th parades, went to colleges (often state colleges) driving old used cars. Some grew up in poverty. Several served in the armed forces.

Obama grew up in Indonesia, raised by an Atheist Marxest mother. Learned to HATE colonielism. Then moved to Hawaii and learned how to work the affirmative action system.

Alan said...

Obama's values are alien because of his Chicago career, not because of his Hawaiian/Indonesian/Ceti Alpha V upbringing.

Auguste said...

" Obama's values are so different from the familiar that we lack the exact words to describe them, and it is a bit of a puzzlement where and from whom he picked them up."

No, you lack the exact words to describe the way his values differ from the familiar because that is bullshit of the highest order. You can't explain because his values are American through and through. If they differed, you'd be able to explain how without resorting to defending birtherism.

The only way Obama's values differ from the familiar is that the embodiment of the values is a ni-CLANG.

Auguste said...

" Obama's values are so different from the familiar that we lack the exact words to describe them, and it is a bit of a puzzlement where and from whom he picked them up."

No, you lack the exact words to describe the way his values differ from the familiar because that is bullshit of the highest order. You can't explain because his values are American through and through. If they differed, you'd be able to explain how without resorting to defending birtherism.

The only way Obama's values differ from the familiar is that the embodiment of the values is a ni-CLANG.

Bruce Hayden said...

Obama's values are alien because of his Chicago career, not because of his Hawaiian/Indonesian/Ceti Alpha V upbringing.

I disagree. As someone above pointed out, Obama didn't participate in many of the things that make us American, such as Boy Scouts, church, high school band, etc., and did a lot of things growing up that weren't. How many American kids tried "dog"? That he wouldn't think it strange, and, yes, unamerican, when he put that in his book is, I think, indicative of just that, that Obama really isn't "American", if you define that word to mean having our collective experiences. Let me suggest that he is the closest thing to a foreigner that we have had running this country since King George III.

President Obama probably is an American citizen, and may, indeed, be a Native Born American Citizen, but I will suggest that he really isn't "American", meaning that he hasn't and doesn't share in the common American experiences, expectations, etc.

Anonymous said...

No, you lack the exact words to describe the way his values differ from the familiar because that is bullshit of the highest order. You can't explain because his values are American through and through.

Auguste: I'll take a stab at it. Few Americans are born to a foreign socialist economist, are mentored by communists and radicals like Frank Marshall Davis, Bill Ayers, and Rev. Wright, write one memoir based on dreams from their foreign socialist father, write another book using a title from a black power minister, launch their political career from the home of the top two leaders of the Weather Underground, and then at the opportunity of winning the presidency declare, "We are five days from fundamentally transforming America."

That's the career and intention of a hard left radical who is not satisfied with America and is in fact hostile to America as it is.

garage mahal said...

Romney's ancestors were kicked out of the United States because of their radical religious practices. That's foreign.

LDS compounds are very communal in nature, and Mormons to this day require a certain percentage of your income to be forked over.

Where were we again about Obama?

chickelit said...

Garage attempted: Where were we again about Obama?

Volition?

Gary Rosen said...

"Another Ready, Fire, Aim from C4"

You want a real laugh, read C-fudd's "profile". The misogynist douchebag has never had a date with a woman he didn't have to pay for - that's why he leapt to the defense of the SS agents caught with hookers. But he claims he has a wife and two kids who he then goes on to insult.

Gary Rosen said...

"There are just as many actual racists in the Democratic party as in the Republican."

Wrong.

There are more

LoafingOaf said...

Instapundit is very proud of Althouse for mobilizing into action, in coordination with Republican blogs, to defend Romney even though he's quite obviously courting the racist vote here.

LoafingOaf said...

Bruce Hayden: "President Obama probably is an American citizen...."

He came out of an American woman's womb and was born in Hawaii. But you still don't know for sure whether he's an American citizen. You're a crazy idiot. But you have lots of company in the Republican party of 2012.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
furious_a said...

Where were we again about Obama?

His ineptitude? His political tin ear?

That an American politician of even middling ability wouldn't have manifested his Guardian editorial page Eurotrash disdain for small businesspeople and Pennsylvania hunters and churchgoers.

Revenant said...

Romney's ancestors were kicked out of the United States because of their radical religious practices.

This may be the first time I've seen someone play up a political opponent's status as a victim of religious oppression. :)

beast said...

Romney's family story is a quintessential American story of success following oppression of a religious minority.Obama's story doesn't seem as familiar.Also all the disdain expressed about his grandfather and Lolo Soetoro convincec me that Barry hates all of the father figures in his life.He is just so much "cooler" than they.

Eric said...

I dunno if I would say Obama has unamerican values. I just know Obama doesn't share my values. "Raise someone else's taxes to pay for my services" is a philosophy held by almost half the country.

Jim S. said...

I imagine Ted Cruz has those values, and he was born in Canada. He might make a great Senator from Texas soon, but he can never be President. We don't need to see his birth certificate, because it's no secret. He's not qualified to be President, and it's no disparagement of him to say that.

Being born in the United States is only one way to be a natural-born American citizen. If you're born outside of the US to American citizen parents, then you are also a natural-born American citizen. I know this because my kids were born in Europe, and they are considered natural-born American citizens. Most countries do not bestow citizenship just for being born within their borders. We had to get our kids passports when they were about eight weeks old. Their passport photos are adorable.

Jim S. said...

Oops, sorry, saw the update after I posted that comment.

Anonymous said...

Baron Zemo said...
Gentlemen it was just a slight witticism. The true birther question was who was Barry's real father?"

Satan. It was Satan Baron Zemo. Satan raped his mother and since there were laws against abortions by women who were raped, she carried it to term and had Barry. There the truth is out. Satan is the President's grandfather. Happy now?

Anonymous said...

Bruce Hayden said...
"President Obama probably is an American citizen...."

Gosh Bruce. Ya'think? Get rid of the word "probably" and you won't sound like you are from another planet.

Roger J. said...

nothing like a good conspiracy theory to generate page views--

Anonymous said...

I'm fairly new to this blog. I didn't realize it was run to gin up money for the moderator.

Sigh

Roger J. said...

Ms Lindsey--surely you jest--notice the links at the top of the page--and advertising revenue flows to blogs that gets lots of hits. As Professor Volokh of VolokhConspiracy even said its all about eyeballs on the page

Roger J. said...

And in the interest of fairness, I don't begrudge the good Professor from profiting from her enterprise. She has to maintain a good blog to be remunerated and so she should be.

Ronald Ward said...

So, Mitt was saying something like; “so this white rich guy, a Mexican, and a black dude were all walking down the street and the white guy wasn’t asked for his papers. Get it? Har! Har! Har!”

Ronald Ward said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Curious George said...

"Althouse: These questions certainly weren't because Obama is black (or half-black)."

I think we can put this question to bed. Here is photographic evidence that Obama is indeed half black, half white.

Curious George said...

"Althouse: These questions certainly weren't because Obama is black (or half-black)."

I think we can put this question to bed. Here is photographic evidence that Obama is indeed half black, half white.

dbp said...

Althouse said,

"I agree that if both your parents are American citizens and you are therefore an American citizen at birth, that's good enough for the constitutional requirement."

This is a relief! For a good part of my childhood, when my brother and sisters had insufficient fresh material for teasing, they would draw from the "Well, you can never be president, David". Our parents are both US citizens and born in the United States, but I was born in England because that's where my Air Force Pilot dad was stationed at the time.

I hardly see my siblings anymore since we live so far apart and I doubt they have teased me about this or much else in 30 years. But if we get together sometime and the subject comes up. I am totally ready for them now.

Unknown said...

DonM

Whether Barack Obama was fathered by Barak Obama Senior or Frank Marshal Davis (Communist Party membership card number 47544), she was not legally married since the Kenyan was already married so Barak Hussein Obama was born illegitimate and so, by the laws in effect in 1962, would be considered a Natural Born Citizen of the United States due to his mother's citizenship regardless of her age or the location of her son's birth.

Tank said...

Lindsey Meadows said...

I'm fairly new to this blog. I didn't realize it was run to gin up money for the moderator.

Sigh


Ha. This made me LOL.

The horrors of it all. AA provides a service every single day for years in which thousands of people view her page and hundreds of us post comments. It's a daily part of life for so many, and many of us are happy to voluntarily contribute to support [pay for] the services we receive. It's the best feckin bargain in town.

It's the American way. Someone provides a service you want, and you voluntarily pay for it. It's both funny and instructive that LM finds this disturbing, as does our Zero, who she adores.

A perfect example of the kind of thing people here were talking about when they say that Zero and LM do not have the same American values as we, and Romney, have.

marklewin said...

Prediction time - After the debates

The pubs will believe Romney dominated and Obama sucked

The dems will say Obama ruled and Rommey stunk.

And the festival of hate will continue on its merry way

Roger J. said...

marklewin--to further your good point, the festival of hate will continue after November 7 irrespective of who wins. A sad commentary on our body politic.

As an aside the whole debate Kabuki should be abolished. Its a farce with the participants repeating stump speech talking points (with an occasional zinger thrown in)--if we have debates, do it Lincoln-Douglas style. And the moderator serves only to keep time.

dreams said...


"The other side is trying to defend, so we can see that the blow hurt. We can talk about the defenses: Is Romney a birther or a racist?"

Romney is unabashedly American!

MayBee said...

There is no pretending the citizenship requirement for President is clear as day. It isn't. It's been an issue in several presidential campaigns, including Romney's father's. Obviously, Mitt Romney doesn't think being born outside of the USA is disqualifying. Some people do.

The people who want to make this racism are going to have to find a way to make John McCain being asked for his birth certificate (by Congress!) to also be racist.

Obama is a bit of a hothouse flower, it was obvious in 2008. Unfortunately for him, people don't like him enough this time around to feel responsible for not hurting his feelings.

Renee said...

Why didn't Obama's campaign respond with a joke in return. They have speech writers for humor, and after a week talking about rape, we need something to lighten the political climate.

MayBee said...

Why didn't Obama's campaign respond with a joke in return. They have speech writers for humor, and after a week talking about rape, we need something to lighten the political climate.

I know, right? or even an in-kind swipe, like "Nobody has ever asked Obama why he will only release 2 years of taxes!"

But the fact is, Obama was asked for his birth certificate. Even Obama jokes about it. You don't have to believe Obama wasn't born in the US to note that getting his birth certificate from him was kinda a big thing.

Anonymous said...

Renee said...
Why didn't Obama's campaign respond with a joke ..."

Well after Mitten put forth Ryan for VP all the "joke air" was kinda sucked out of the room....

Dr Weevil said...

garage mahal (12:54am) writes as if tithing were some bizarre practice known only to Mormons. Does he really not know that tens of millions of non-Mormon Americans tithe? Tithers probably include Methodist George W. Bush, as argued in this post, though the comments were unfortunately lost in a server change.

furious_a said...

I'm fairly new to this blog. I didn't realize it was run to gin up money for the moderator.

Whatever it is, for putting up with bitchy twits like you it ain't enought.

furious_a said...

Well after Mitten put forth Ryan for VP all the "joke air" was kinda sucked out of the room.

Thought that was when the DNC decided to send Sandra Fluke to Charlotte and Joe Biden to Tampa (He thinks it's "Tulsa").

jeirich said...

If Obama had the exact same history but were white, this issue never would have come up.

Oh, and now I am very glad to have stumbled onto this site, so that I now know the 37 items I must hoard.

Baron Zemo said...

My dear sweet Twana you are the one who is confused. It is quite impossible for President Obama to be his own father.

Your claim to being new to the blog is almost as specious as your claim to being a woman.

Most unbelievable my good fellow.

Bruce Hayden said...

Gosh Bruce. Ya'think? Get rid of the word "probably" and you won't sound like you are from another planet.

I don't know, nor do you, for 100% certainty, that Obama is an American citizen. You cannot. You may be able to say 99% or 99.9%, but you weren't there at his birth, etc. If you prefer, I will say "most probably". But, I can't say for sure that anyone here is an American citizen, besides myself, for the same reasons.

Bruce Hayden said...

My guess is that one of the reasons that Romney is able to pay 13% or so in total tax rates, is that he does tithe. 30% of 10% is 3% tax cut, or, as the libs would claim, tax loophole. But, before you go too far along with that argument, consider whether the Mormon Church is going to do more with Romney's 10% than the government could do with the with the 3% that he doesn't pay in taxes due to this "tax loophole". (I would suggest that the LDS church would do better on a 1:1 basis than the federal govt could, which is far less than the real (maybe) 3.3:1 ratio).

Mick said...

"I agree that if both your parents are American citizens and you are therefore an American citizen at birth, that's good enough for the constitutional requirement".


Sorry Ann but you should know better than that. "American Citizen at birth" is not the requirement, natural born Citizen is. It is not a requirement that "should be food enough", it is a requirement that assures allegiance and attachment to country (to the highest degree possible). Don't you know that the writer of Federalist #68, Alexander Hamilton, proposed that the requirement be "born a Citizen", but was overruled in favor of "natural born Citizen"?
It us a well known tenet of statutory construction that terms of art, like "natural born Citizen" are not defined by the dictionary or by breaking them down phonetically. It is also well known that the usage of a term of art, like "natural born Citizen," in a statutory scheme implies the adoption of the entire body of law from which it comes (natural law, or law of nations). Thus "law of nations" is adopted whole cloth into the Constitution at A1S8C10.

What is the natural law definition?
"§ 212: Natural-born citizens are those born in the country of parents who are citizens – it is necessary that they be born of a father who is a citizen. If a person is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country."

Obama's foreign father assures that this may or not be the place of his birth, but America is not in his heart, and that is obvious.

Gee that's the same as Minor v. Happersett!

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

“where a phrase in a statute appears to have become a term of art . . . , any attempt to break down the term into its constituent words is not apt to illuminate its meaning.” Sullivan v. Stroop, 496 U.S. 478, 483 (1990)

“[W]here Congress borrows terms of art in which are accumulated the legal
tradition and meaning of centuries of practice, it presumably knows and adopts
the cluster of ideas that were attached to each borrowed word in the body of
learning from which it was taken and the meaning its use will convey to the
judicial mind unless otherwise instructed. In such a case, absence of contrary
direction may be taken as satisfaction with widely accepted definitions, not as
departure from them.” Morissette v. United States, 342 U.S. 246, 263 (1952). See also Miles v. Apex Marine Corp., 498 U.S. 19, 32 (1990) (“We assume that Congress is aware of existing law when it
passes legislation”).


Mick said...

Unknown said...

"DonM

Whether Barack Obama was fathered by Barak Obama Senior or Frank Marshal Davis (Communist Party membership card number 47544), she was not legally married since the Kenyan was already married so Barak Hussein Obama was born illegitimate and so, by the laws in effect in 1962, would be considered a Natural Born Citizen of the United States due to his mother's citizenship regardless of her age or the location of her son's birth."


It has nothing to do w/ the laws in effect in 1962. It has everything to do w/ the law in effect in 1789 (the Constitution). A2S1C4 has never been amended. It is correct though that if Ann Dunham was not married to BO Sr. then BO 2 would be eligible. However there is a divorce decree in Hawaii that says they were married.

Mick said...

Lindsey Meadows said...

"Bruce Hayden said...
"President Obama probably is an American citizen...."

Gosh Bruce. Ya'think? Get rid of the word "probably" and you won't sound like you are from another planet."


The question is whether he is a natural born Citizen-- that's the requirement. By his own story, from his own mouth, he is not natural born, since he was born British, of a British subject father, which does not conform to the definition of natural law, espoused in Minor v. Happersett, 88 US 162,167.

Mick said...

Jim S. said...

"I imagine Ted Cruz has those values, and he was born in Canada. He might make a great Senator from Texas soon, but he can never be President. We don't need to see his birth certificate, because it's no secret. He's not qualified to be President, and it's no disparagement of him to say that.

Being born in the United States is only one way to be a natural-born American citizen. If you're born outside of the US to American citizen parents, then you are also a natural-born American citizen. I know this because my kids were born in Europe, and they are considered natural-born American citizens. Most countries do not bestow citizenship just for being born within their borders. We had to get our kids passports when they were about eight weeks old. Their passport photos are adorable".



Who says they are natural born Citizens? Natural born Citizens are born in the US of US Citizens (88 US 162, 167), where no statute is needed to make them US Citizens--- what else would they be? Your children needed US Code 8 S. 1401 to be US Citizens--- thus they were naturalized at birth, and not natural born. John McCain, born in the PCZ needed USC 8 s. 1403 to be a US Citizen-- so he isn't either. Obama was born a British subject of a British subject father-- thus he is not natural born. Rubio and Jindal were born of resident alien parents in America-- so their foreign citizenship at birth disqualifies them. It's really quite simple.

Mick said...

Hayden said,
"President Obama probably is an American citizen, and may, indeed, be a Native Born American Citizen, but I will suggest that he really isn't "American", meaning that he hasn't and doesn't share in the common American experiences, expectations, etc".



DING DING DING--- thus is the purpose of the requirement that Presidents be nbCs--- so that they have the requisite allegiance and attachment necessary to lead America, and its Armed Forces. Obama is EXACTLY whom the framers were preventing from the office.

Mick said...

Unknown said...

"My little girls were born abroad to one foreign parent (mom) and one American parent (me). They, too, are American citizens from birth."

Yeah they are naturalized at birth by US Code 8 S. 1401, but they are not natural born Citizens of A2S1C4. Not eligible, although they enjoy all the privileges and immunities of citizenship.

Mick said...

Cedarford said...

gadfly said...
Cedarford:

"We birthers believe that the Constitution's requirement that the President be a "natural born citizen," simply means that that person must be the offspring of two citizens. This requirement only applies to the President.

Obviously, Barry's father was not a U.S. citizen.

You Birthers are nuts.
Both of Andrew Jackson's parents were born in Ireland.
Hoovers Mom was Canadian.
Etc., etc.

Anne Althouse is dead wrong about Ted Cruz's eligibility.




Andrew Jackson's parents citizenship was not an issue, since Jackson was a beneficiary of the "grandfather clause", "or a CITIZEN at the time of the ratification..."--- he was born before ratification, and was a citizen of the US at the time the USC was ratified. Hoover's mother was naturalized by marriage to a US Citizen by Naturalization Act 1855. So you are wrong on both counts.

Mick said...

HT said...

Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico.

o what happened with President Obama? Is he the only president to have a foreign-born parent?

He is the seventh president with at least one foreign-born parent. It has been 76 years since the last: Herbert Hoover had a Canadian-born mother. Woodrow Wilson's mother was English. Chester Arthur and James Buchanan both had Irish fathers. Thomas Jefferson's mother was born in England, and Andrew Jackson's parents were both born in Ireland.

Along with McCain, presidential contender Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico, and Bill Richardson's parents were both foreign-born, his father from Nicaragua and his mother from Mexico.

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-is-the-seventh-president-with-a-foreign-born-parent

Has everyone forgotten google?


All nonsense.
Romney's father was a US Citizen when Mitt was born.

Hoover and Wison's mother's were naturalized by marriage to a US Citizen.

Buchanan's father was naturalized before James' birth.

Thomas Jefferson and Jackson were not natural born Citizens--- they were beneficiaries of the "grandfather clause" which made all citizens of the US in 1789 eligible.

George Romney, Richardson and McCain were not elected-- the point is moot--- also Senate Resolutions (511) carry no weight of US Law.

The only other Usurper was Chester Arthur, and the same arguments about place of birth went on then (people thought he was born in Canada). Hiding in plain sight was the fact that his father did not naturalize until CA was 13 (there was no internet at the time). NO ONE knew that he was not naturalized, and it has only recently been discovered (in 2009).
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/urgent-historical-breakthrough-proof-chester-arthur-concealed-he-was-a-british-subject-at-birth/

Arthur went to great lengths to hide his past--- even burning all family history before he died. Scholarly papers on the subject of foreign parentage and nbC never mention Arthur 30 years after his death--- so NO ONE knew, and fraud is not precedent.
Obama obviously knew that history-- which is why he was so public about his foreign father

http://www.scribd.com/doc/68922032/Natural-Born-Citizen-Within-Meaning-of-Constitution-by-Breckenridge-Long-Democrat-1916



--- now he has been caught-- and must hide behind the Birth Certificate controversy.

Mick said...

Ann Althouse said...

"There's also the fact that the state Obama was born in is Hawaii... so immensely far from the rest of the country (and, at the time of his birth, only recently a state)".


And because Hawaii allowed foreign births to be registered as if in Hawaii, as long as the parents were residents.

(Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178)

Ryan Paulsen said...

You are an idiot.

nahidworld said...

Today I learn about birth certificates in the United Kingdom.A birth certificate is a vital way of recording the birth of a new baby. It also helps countries and local councils keep a close check on the population growth. There are two forms to which the term birth certificate can refer to. The first is known as the original document, the second is a certified copy which represents the original record of birth.
The birth certificate gives the individual an official identity from the moment it is born. Since 1827 the registering of births and also deaths and marriages has been common practice in the United Kingdom. Initially there were no fines for not registering the arrival of a new baby boy or girl, that however, changed before long because keeping an eye on the changes in population numbers, gave a better indication of the spending required in the coming years ahead, in terms of education, transport, and any the availability of manpower, should the need arise. Possibly due to Britain's acquisition of countries it called its commonwealth, the racial mix of the British population was very varied. Every birth certificate from the United Kingdom, will include details about the birth, such as the name and gender of the child, the name(s) of the parents, even sometimes the race of the baby is required. Crucially details like date of birth and location of birth add up to make up the identity of the person.

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