Daniel Tosh subsequently apologized but later defended himself on Twitter:
The point I was making before I was heckled is there are awful things in the world but you can still make jokes about them. #deadbabies....
July 16, 2012
What the comedian said when the female heckler yelled "Actually, rape jokes are never funny!"
"Wouldn't it be funny if that girl got raped by like, five guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her?"
Daniel Tosh subsequently apologized but later defended himself on Twitter:
Daniel Tosh subsequently apologized but later defended himself on Twitter:
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147 comments:
Rape jokes are always funny, if they're directed to a conservative woman. Remember Sandra Bernhard wishing Sarah Palin would get gang raped by a bunch of big black bucks the next time she visited New York? Big laffs!
Michael Richards was unavailable for comment.
""Actually, rape jokes are never funny!" she yelled out loud from the audience.
According to the author, Tosh responded by saying: "Wouldn't it be funny if that girl got raped by like, five guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her?"
The crowd laughed, leaving the female audience member stunned and horrified."
I think Tosh proved rather conclusively and on the spot that the woman's assertion was false.
You omitted my choice: Edgy or not, it's still funny or die And that cocksucker died right there on stage.
How about a musical tribute to rape?
It's a classic. And catchy! And funny!
Rape!
R-a-a-a-pe!
Raa-aa-aa-pe!
A pretty rape!
A literary rape!
We've the obvious open schoolboy rape,
With little mandolins and perhaps a cape.
The rape by coach; it's little in request.
The rape by day, but the rape by night is best.
Just try to see it.
And you will soon agree, señors,
Why
Invite regret,
When you can get the sort of rape
You'll never ever forget.
You can get the rape emphatic.
You can get the rape polite.
You can get the rape with Indians:
A very charming sight.
You can get the rape on horseback;
They'll all say it's new and gay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
It depends on what you
Pay.
The kids will love it.
It depends on what you pay!
So why be stingy?
It depends on what you --
The spectacular rape,
With costumes ordered from the East.
Requires rehearsal
And takes a dozen men at least.
A couple of singers,
And a string quartet.
A major production.
Requires a set.
Sounds expensive!
Just try to see it.
And you will soon si,si señors,
Why
Invite regret,
When you can get the sort of rape
You'll never ever forget.
You can get the rape emphatic.
You can get the rape polite.
You can get the rape with Indians:
A very charming sight.
You can get the rape on horseback;
They'll all say it's new and gay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
It depends on what you
Pay.
So why be stingy?
It depends on what you pay!
The kids will love it.
It depends on what you --
The comic rape.
Perhaps it's just a trifle too unique.
Romantic rape:
Done while canoeing on a moonlit creek.
The gothic rape!
I play "Valkyrie" on a bass bassoon!
The drunken rape.
It's done completely in a cheap saloon.
The rape Venetian
Needs a blue lagoon.
The rape with moonlight
Or without a moon.
Moonlight is expensive but it's in demand.
The military rape:
It's done with drummer and a band.
You understand?
I understand.
It's very grand.
It's very grand.
It's done with drums and a great big brass band!
Yeah!
Just try to see it.
I see it!
I see it!
And you will soon si,si señors,
Why
Invite regret,
When you can get the sort of rape
You'll never ever forget.
You can get the rape emphatic.
You can get the rape polite.
You can get the rape with Indians:
A very charming sight.
You can get the rape on horseback;
They'll all say it's new and gay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
Depends on what you pay.
Depends on what you pay.
Depends on what you pay.
Depends on what you pay.
So why be stingy?
It depends on what you pay!
The kids will love it.
It depends on what you
Ra-aa-aa-pe!
Ole!
2 and 4.
You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. I think people are finally getting fed up with the Offended-Americans.
Was he talking about "Rapey rape." As Professor Whoppi Goldberg will tell you, there's a difference.
What about the women Clinton raped? That was joked about in Dem circles. We regular folks just don't understand nuance.
A rather horrific number of people seem to think that rape jokes are hysterically funny, provided that they're about men being raped in prison.
Rape ofcaptured women and girls is a standard tactic among middle eastern ethnic groups at war. Rape alone takes your enemy's woman, defiles her while showing warrior dominance over the defeated foe and represents basic spoils of war.
The Russian Army survivors, certainly earned it against the German women and girls after slogging from a near defeat 20 miles outside Moscow, on through Stalingrad, Kursk, and into Berlin three years later.
But rape is certainly bad manners.
How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. I think people are finally getting fed up with the Offended-Americans.
What fucking bullshit.
A member of the audience isn't a paid employee.
And rape victims aren't merely "offended."
Dead babies aren't funny either...
Daniel Who?
No topic should be off limits. Jokes are funny or not on their own merit, not the topic. it is time to take political correctness and eliminate it from society.
"A member of the audience isn't a paid employee."
True, though she did attempt to appoint herself Tosh's comedy editor. She presumed that as an audience member, she had creative control over the show's content.
Tosh could have ignored her, complied with her demand or pushed back: Tosh pushed back.
Tosh pushed back.
Do you honestly think his "pushback" was funny? Even a little?
I never before realized that it was possible to be both incredibly lame and utterly vile at the same time.
So Tosh has got that going for him, anyway.
Comics can be as edgy as they want...but only if they're funny. Otherwise they're just like my stupid drunk uncle.
No, it would only have been funny if the five guys were dressed in clown suits.
And I say this as someone who's perfectly willing to risk tastelessness for edginess.
This is way beyond mere tastelessness.
Lady, almost everything you find funny is offensive to somebody, so sit down and shut up. Stay home if you can't handle comedy.
If there are certain categories of jokes you don't want to hear from a comedian, better to not go to that comedian's show than to yell from the audience what he should find off limits.
Being offended is not a skill. It is not something to be applauded, and it is the easiest thing in the world to be. I suppose in a world of "Participant" awards, being offended seems like a very important accomplishment. But it isn't.
Going to a comedian is not a compulsory exercise. If you don't like what he has to say, get up and leave. But don't try to control him from your one-paid-ticket seat.
Almost anything can be funny in some contexts. We all should grok that laughter is sometimes the only thing that lets us get through difficult and tragic events.
But I don't think Tosh's response to the woman was at all funny. It was a direct, personal attack at her. That it was in response to her own inappropriate heckling doesn't mitigate, in my view. One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic, right? Same principle here. Joking about "rape" in general might be funny in some contexts, even though rape is, of course, extremely serious. But joking about the rape of a particular, identifiable person is less funny. And joking about rape of a particular person for the specific purpose of trying to silence them is less funny still.
Heartiste is on it:
5. Female privilege. Matriarchal power structure. Call it what you will, the fact is that women are granted certain exemptions in society based on their sex alone. And one of those is the freedom to mouth off in comedy venues without consequence. Women know that the odds they will be aggressively shouted down by the comic or the audience, or even physically assaulted or tossed out, are far lower than they would be for a man who mouthed off in the identical fashion. Women also know that should someone go a little “too far” striking back at their idiocy, an army of undersexed, tool white knights will rush to their defense. Women definitely do leverage this advantage of their sex to be immune from serious consequence, although they will never admit it.
Do you honestly think his "pushback" was funny? Even a little?
Maybe it wasn't funny, but sometimes comedians say something that doesn't work.
It wasn't part of his prepared material, and I'm sure was over within seconds.
Rape or whatever. The heckler yelled at him (stupid move I agree...get up and leave if you don't like it) and he responded in a totally unfunny, uncreative, non comedic fashion. He is obviously not very fast on his (mental) feet if that was the best comeback he could muster.
If that was the best he can do, he is a pretty piss poor comedian.
You know, a similar thing happened to me at a poetry reading. I started yelling at the dumb hippie about how his poem sucked and didn't even rhyme, and the smelly beatnik got mad! Can you believe it? How dare he challenge my informed criticism?
The entire goal of this endeavor is to offend someone somewhere.
That said, I don't think we've done any rape jokes.
He's actually funny, but no his comment wasn't funny. Nobody is 100% funny, and no topic is 100% not funny. Even a pedo can be funny.
Remember Buck Henry as Uncle Roy on SNL?
I would tend to think rape jokes are rarely, if ever, funny, but am willing to concede that someone with true wit and a point to make might be able to manage this difficult and touchy feat.
Tosh isn't witty and his "joke" wasn't funny, it was just coarse and hateful.
"I think Tosh proved rather conclusively and on the spot that the woman's assertion was false."
Wrong; he just proved the stupidity and sadism human beings hold within them.
traditionalguy said...
"Rape of captured women and girls is a standard tactic among middle eastern ethnic groups at war."
Rape has historically been a standard tactic in all wars. Don't limit the truth to make it seem as if "middle eastern ethnic groups" are the sole perpetrators of such cruelty.
George Carlin covered this years ago...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FsfLPohZ_c
I think anything can be funny, potentially. It depends on the joke; it depends on the situation.
There's no way to say "rape jokes can be funny" (or Holocaust jokes, or any other topic generally considered taboo) without sounding like a sociopathic douchebag, but it seems like hubris to say "rape jokes can never be funny."
And now that I've exposed myself as a sociopathic douchebag, I'll leave it at that.
Chip, you misunderstand.
I meant that going to a comedy club implies you understand you're almost certainly going to hear something "offensive".
That a womyn was ostentatiously "offended" is getting awfully tiresome to most people.
PS Glad to see the combo box option.
Any conservative here who has ever linked crime to "thug culture" and yet defends Tosh in this instance should feel free to step right up and explain the difference.
How about you explain first what you mean about linking crime to the "thug culture", and then explain how this is similar.
Poll answer:
"Rape is different from other bad things (like murder) in a way that makes it never funny....."
------------
That is the problem with PC and those feminists and other Perpetually Outraged and Aggrieved Americans.
People are sick of both.
And all the double standards where women can emasculate men in humor, but stripping a woman of her femininity in MOCKERY!! is Just...NOT....That ...Funny!!
(Except if the woman is a hating conservative Cro Magnon throwback).
Or how use of the N-Word is something that is worse than Nazi Death Camps! Except when blacks use it enough to make it a Top 15 word in frequency of use in inner city linguistic studies, and mass media builds a billion-a-year empire around N*gg*h songs, black comics jokes, thug fashions, thug movies.
I think his point was ultimately right (anything no matter how vile could be used as a joke that actually makes you laugh), but the joke he used to make the point wans't one that proved his point.
Piss poor attempt at deflection, Maybee.
My how things have changed!
Remember the 70's SNL skit "Frontier Midwife" with Cicely Tyson? That joke involved the gang-rape of a black woman by a bunch of white men, one of whom is now the Senator from Minnesota.
And don't even get me started on what you'd find in National Lampoon.
the joke he used to make the point wans't one that proved his point.
You're right, jr.
But it did support Cook's point.
Um, whatever anybody thinks is art is art I suppose, but that don't mean that interpreter ain't a piece of shit.
Just sayin.
To Ann and her readers;
Many of you were vaguely aware of a controversy in the Michigan House of Representatives a couple of weeks ago as the session was ending. One day before the end of the session (where Republicans hold a clear majority), Rep. Lisa Brown, speaking against a package of bills limiting abortion services, said, "I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my vagina, but no means no."
Of course the mainstream media jumped into the story about how Brown was later barred from speaking "for saying vagina on the House floor."
In fact, it was (according to House leadership) a consequence of Brown's having made the casual and sarcastic allusion to rape language -- "no means no."
Surely, if a male Republican had done something similar, he'd have been excoriated in the press.
I think Tosh is pretty talented as a comedian and funny as hell, but when he pushes too far which he does a lot, it's less funny and a mistake for him.
This "joke" seems a lot worse than what Michael Richards said. Richards was merely using a word in a way commonly used. He was just the wrong color to use it. There was no crime or violence suggested.
Despite that, Tosh will suffer none of the penalties that Richards did.
PC has strange rules written in some indecipherable code.
I'm not trying to deflect anything, Chip. I'm trying to understand your comparison.
It's interesting that you bring up thug culture and crime, yet somehow accuse me of deflection.
Tosh pushed back.
Do you honestly think his "pushback" was funny? Even a little?
*****
Comics can be as edgy as they want...but only if they're funny.
I want to agree with you as a matter of subjective taste, but from an empirical standpoint, the audience laughed.
Chances are that I will never see this guy's act, but I can't deny that his jokes are funny to some people. And that's just the way it is.
That's rich Maybee.
To start, go look at one of the threads about the mobs at the WI State Fair, Maybee.
Then noodle around looking for references to the role of pop--rap in particular--in propagating street crime.
You won't have to search for long.
If you then want to say that you don't see any parallel b/w rapping about bitches and hos on the one hand and this assclown on the other, then you and I have nothing to talk about.
Michael Richards didn't just use the word. He kind of freaked out.
The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass."
Not funny. Not un-offensive. Not the end of the world.
Lesson: don't heckle the comedian.
Tosh's only mistake was, he isn't Bill Maher and he wasn't talking about Sarah Palin.
We all know THAT's A-OK!
He has a right to be offensive. Normal people have a right to remind him of his offense. Despite the effort of fanatics over the last several decades, there is a renewed effort to enforce a minimum level of decorum.
Unfortunately, some individuals and groups are either incapable or unwilling to self-moderate their behavior. So, in the interest of preserving optimal liberty, it is necessary to remind them of basic principles.
In any case, the involuntary exploitation of others, and certainly rape (or "rape-rape"), is not a matter to be considered lightly or flippantly.
Seriously, has she never watched Tosh.0? The man's whole schtick is going way too far...
tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/sensitive-nips
I'm not sure it was wrong because it was about rape. If the person had complained about a joke about suicide and he responded that it would be "funny" of that person were to find their child dead by suicide, would that be any better? I think not.
Rape is one, of a number of, horrible things that one person can do to each other. Making abstract jokes about pushes and often crosses the line. Directing such things at specific people would seem to always cross the line.
""I think Tosh proved rather conclusively and on the spot that the woman's assertion was false."
Wrong; he just proved the stupidity and sadism human beings hold within them."
If the lady had said that rape jokes are never funny to enlightened humans, she would have been on firmer ground. She did not make this claim, she said they are never funny. That Tosh got a laugh indicates that rape jokes are in fact funny to some people. Q.E.D.
Well, no, I don't see a guy who says one thing one time as being similar to someone who continually raps in favor of crime.
But no, in general, I think if rappers want to rap about bitches and hos it isn't going to make people engage in crime. I don't think rock and roll music leads to sex, and I don't think rap causes crime.
I do think people of various behavioral types listen to the "soundtrack of their lives".
I certainly don't think Tosh, making an offhand comment in a live performance, is going to actually inspire anyone to rape a woman. Do you, really?
I certainly don't think Tosh, making an offhand comment in a live performance, is going to actually inspire anyone to rape a woman. Do you, really?
DavidSummers has made a key point. It goes to one of the reasons Tosh was vulgar and unfunny.
Cedarford @4:51 saves you the trouble of searching for references to thug culture.
As to your last point, Maybee, I suggest you google "Sorites Paradox".
Cedarford @4:51 saves you the trouble of searching for references to thug culture.
He does nothing to connect thug culture to crime, nor does he compare Daniel Tosh to one of your thug culture cultivators.
I do not think what Tosh said was funny, and have said so. That's very different from saying rape jokes can never be funny, and very different from saying Tosh can never be funny.
Do you think rap music causes crime? Do you think Daniel Tosh is causing rape?
Or are you just momentarily upset by a tasteless moment at a club?
Don't follow the Tosh Culture, kids. You'll go nowhere.
Thanks for the link, Xmas.
That may pretty funky, but I couldn't stop laughing.
Here's a sampling of Tosh's influence, Maybee.
Those are the kind of people who find his retort funny.
I don't see any point in replying to the rest of your last comment, other than to note that you obviously didn't take my googling advice.
http://sheckymagazine.com/2012/07/toshopus/
As comedians, we are appalled at:
1. How this was underreported/misreported in the MSM (and in the blogosphere and via social media
2. How our fellow comedians responded
We've been posting about for the past five days or so.
Last weekend, when we were in Los Angeles, we talked to a comic who was present. (Something the MSM could have done without too much trouble.) We found out some interesting things about the incident.
A rape joke got Ann Richards elected Governor of Texas in 1990!
A big mouthed oil man named Clayton Williams said that bad weather was kinda like rape. "If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it".
This "joke" cost him the election.
And rape victims aren't merely "offended."
This is where you went too far, IMHO, Chip S.
Who said rape victims are merely "offended"?
Maybee, you asked "I certainly don't think Tosh, making an offhand comment in a live performance, is going to actually inspire anyone to rape a woman. Do you, really?
Well, yes, as I matter of fact, I suspect it could inspire, encourage, confirm some man to follow through with such a violent act. Acting on impulse is never good, but if it's been sanctioned by an audience then it's not really so bad now, is it?
I also suspect that some boy watching Tosh's comedy show on TV without parental guidance (and what percent do you suppose that may be?) grows up with a perverted view of acceptable behavior.
Dear Featured Performers on Season 7 of Last Comic Standing,
Here's a proposed rule of thumb: If it takes a thousand or so words to explain a joke, it's not much of a joke.
As for the actual content of your self-righteous twaddle, this part is about all there is that's worth commenting on:
Now, jokes have to be “worth it.”
Yes. What makes them "worth it" is actually being funny.
But I can see why you'd resist that definition.
Meh - I like Tosh a lot; he's absurd and has a great comedic talent, but if the person had ever seen any of his work at all, she should have known what she was getting into. The man jokes about getting raped himself on a regular basis. I would say that this is hardly his best joke ever, but it's funny in a "look at me, I'm outrageous and unflappable" sort of way.
I liked the Onion's handling of it: Daniel Tosh Chuckles through his own violent rape. http://www.theonion.com/articles/daniel-tosh-chuckles-through-own-violent-rape,28769/
I entirely expect that Tosh will incorporate that exact scenerio into his show soon enough. This is the type of humor that he does - you either find it funny or you don't.
That's what she said.
Jokes about premature ejaculation are never funny, Leslyn. It is a medical condition, humiliating to those who suffer.
Some official feminist comedian countered that rape jokes can be funny, such as a jewish lady being raped by a young doctor had mixed feelings.
The wording was better but I don't remember it exactly or who it was or where I recently heard it.
Tosh should apologize for not being funny in the first place, and not being funny in response to the heckler.
It should go without saying that the heckler is not saying anything interesting.
Shorter Tosh: Duh.
Shorter Heckler: Shut up. Me.
Short Tosh response: Durrrh.
Summary Overview of entire exchange: Idiocracy.
"Daniel Tosh subsequently apologized but later defended himself on Twitter..."
If it's on Twitter, it can't be much of a defense.
Wow, YoungHegelian is right! I just watched that "Frontier Midwife" sketch on Netflix.
The punchline is Cicely Tyson getting gangraped by Dan Aykroyd, John Belushi, and, I think, Bill Murray and Tom Davis (it's a little hard to tell because of the make-up).
Times really have changed.
Leslyn...Rape is illegal and until our Philosopher Kings on the court suddenly felt squeemish about it, it was a capital crime in Georgia.
My comment on middle eastern rapes as normal war and the Russians in Germany in 1945 were to give some perspective to human evil.
I did not mention the Rape of Nanking when the Japaneses Army was ordered to systematically rape the Chimese women and girls to death.
It's always serious violence.
Then there's the Gatlin boys. There were three of them.
Christopher in MA said...
Remember Sandra Bernhard wishing Sarah Palin would get gang raped by a bunch of big black bucks the next time she visited New York?
Sandra Bernhard was just ugly enough to get away with that. Plus she had lots of cohorts who covered for her and never spoke up.
I mean, when the insides match the outsides so closely, people just want to look the other way.
"Blogger traditionalguy said...
Leslyn...Rape is illegal and until our Philosopher Kings on the court suddenly felt squeemish about it, it was a capital crime in Georgia.
My comment on middle eastern rapes as normal war and the Russians in Germany in 1945 were to give some perspective to human evil."
------------------------------
Reminds me of what the Eastern Europeans and East Germans call the statues commemorating WWII Soviet soldiers in their countries..."The Monument to the Unknown Rapist".
Despite this episode, Tosh is hilarious. Check out his show.
"Cicely Tyson getting gangraped by Dan Aykroyd, John Belushi, and, I think, Bill Murray and Tom Davis"
Cicely Tyson? I thought it was Garrett Morris in drag.
@leslyn
Yea, actually that was kinda funny. Need to work on your delivery and timing though :-)
No, what Tosh said, was not funny, as reported. Knowing the state of our media today, I can't say it wasn't funny in context though.
So while I would hope Mr. Tosh would work on his heckling skills, I am not going to take away his right to make a living.
As for rape jokes ever being funny, one mans edgy is another mans insult. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla. In my youth I quested for the worst joke in the world. Not the grossest, dumbest, lamest, just the worst one I could find. Strange? you betcha, but it was my thing. I found it funny in an absurdist way, a joke so unfunny it was funny. Better to error on the side of cation on the free speech thing. Don't step on mine and I won't step on yours.
And yes, if she went to a Tosh show she knew something was coming. Tosh pretty much gores everyones ox.
Woman walks into a bar.
Guy coners her and pushes her into an empty bathroom, and tells her to take down her pants. When she protests, he hits her and says he'll do it again if she doesn't cooperate.
So she does, and takes out the knife she has in her back pocket for just this eventuality, and whacks off his weenie.
Then she flushes it down the toilet, washes her hands, and says, "Have fun sitting down from now on."
Could be funny, but the rhythm is a bit off.
John and Lorena Bobbitt
Do you honestly think his "pushback" was funny? Even a little?
Yes.
Like Mel Brooks said, "tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
The Russian Army survivors, certainly earned it against the German women and girls after slogging from a near defeat 20 miles outside Moscow, on through Stalingrad, Kursk, and into Berlin three years later.
Hey tradguy, the Russkies had a hard war, so that made raping German women from 7 to 70 sorta okay?
I wonder how many know that significant numbers of German women, possibly in the thousands, committed suicide either to avoid the inevitable multiple rapes or after having been raped multiple times at the hands of those heroes of the Soviet.
Brian & Traci:
thanks for that link, it is interesting background. In fact I like it so much I'll even make it clickable.
How many humor-impaired feminist bitches does it take to change a light bulb?
A: THAT'S NOT FUNNY, DAMMIT!!!!
RAPE IS NO LAUGHING MATTER!!! (unless you're raping a clown.)
Any conservative here who has ever linked crime to "thug culture" and yet defends Tosh in this instance should feel free to step right up and explain the difference.
That doesn't even make sense, Chip.
"Was this joke funny" is not the same question as "was this joke good for society". Similarly, you can enjoy listening to 2pac or NWA while still realizing that they probably did more harm than good.
I was wondering about what rape joke he'd supposedly told, since no one has ever actually included the joke that she thought wasn't funny.
So... I looked at the link and found out... he hadn't told a rape joke at all. He made a generalized statement (according to the article) that rape jokes are always funny. So he didn't even tell an unfunny rape joke that she took offense to.
I'm sure that a whole lot of people thought that Rep. Lisa Brown's "no means no" thing was funny, and it was definitely a rape joke (which was why the people she was "jokingly" accusing of wanting to rape her due to their interest in her vagina got so mad about it.)
Come to think of it, that was personal, too, specifically accusing colleagues of interest in raping her. And if there was something genuinely horrible about this Tosh guy's reaction was that he made it personal.
I still felt back making choice number four on the poll, but I think it's right. The rest of the world can't be held responsible if you've had something happen in your life so that you're hurt by a rude joker. Rape isn't special that way. The running squirt gun joke wasn't funny to relatives of people killed from Fast and Furious. No dead baby joke is funny to someone who had a miscarriage. Infidelity, a favorite joke topic, is a knife in the heart to someone experiencing it. And also, yes, impotence.
If you're in a tender state you probably won't watch television, much less go see a comedy show that you know is based on transgression as the source of humor.
There are some things I would never joke about.
But the Holocaust, rape, and child abuse don't make the list.
Felt bad, not back. Bleh.
The "woman walks into a bar joke" example would be far funnier if vagina dentata was involved.
There actually *is* something that makes a non-joke story into a joke. It can be a word play or a ridiculous over-statement or under-statement or the context of it related to something else... whatever.
There's a recognizable difference between slapstick and a fight scene.
It'd be funny if Tosh got ass raped.
Yeah, that's hilarious.
A rather horrific number of people seem to think that rape jokes are hysterically funny, provided that they're about men being raped in prison.
Yes. Or as they say nowadays: This.
Maybe the many who think men being raped in prison is funny are the types who can't imagine themselves ever being put in that position (no pun intended). I can, and whenever I hear such a "joke" a shiver runs through me.
Nothing is off limits for comedy. Tosh's joke isnt funny because it was about rape, it wasnt funny cause it wasnt funny. Look at Mel Brooks and Hitler on ice. Hitler? How can you joke about that? Easy....make it funny.
It's always funny when feminists joke about cutting off a man's penis, right?
I watch Tosh.0 a little bit. The guys over the top, but usually funny as hell and rather insightful. Most comedians learn how to insult as part of their profession. Amateurs should be wary, in the same way if you were to run into an NFL game and attack the quarterback.
How many times have you heard someone joke about prison rape? Now, that's funny. Especially because it's men being raped.
Jonathan Swift poked gentle, whimsical fun at dead babies and made the comedian's hall of fame. I see no reason why rape jokes can't be funny. Where I would draw the line, however, is jokes about the rape of dead babies, especially if such babies were gay, lesbian or transgendered. That's going too far.
Most depressing thread I've read on Althouse. Exactly why I called bullshit on clear writing.
We have gone to hell, it's just not fully understood as yet.
For the last 4.5 years or so, the only topic in the US that could not be joked about and could never be funny at all (per the liberal elites), was Barack Obama.
I'm thinking that will wear off soon.
Daniel Tosh said something during his act that offended somebody?
Next you'll tell me Anderson Cooper is gay.
Huh. I guess the standard heckler response of "C'mon, I'm working here...I don't go to your job and knock the dicks out of your mouth, do I?" would not have gone over well here.
pencildick little men
Ah. The insult women always fall back on, "Your problem is your dick's too small."
Guess what? You ain't got no dick at all.
ricpic...Operation Barberossa had carefully laid plans to starve to death 30,000,000 civilians in the northern sector and send all food they might have eaten back to Germany.
The Operation was designed to clear out the population so that Germans could settle there.
The Einsatzgruppen SS mobile killing units went into Russia with the Panzer Armies with its sole being duty to execute on the spot all Party commisars and all Jews as the German Army over ran Russia.
The Germans ONLY lost because the insane Hitler's worst decision of the war was to pospone the attack for 4 weeks so that German Army could first murder the people and lay waste to Yugoslavia over an insult. That 4 weeks was the margin by which an early winter stopped the German tanks by December 1, 1942 only 20 miles outside Moscow.
So yes, the Germans who sent that Army of massacre into Russia were owed some payback by the Army that the Russians sent back into Germany lead by Zhukov's amazing T-34 Tank Divisions.
By the time they finished the Russian Army had 10,000,000 dead and the Russian civilians had 159,000,000 dead. The German women and girls were traumatized for a few months.
Cf. The "Heckler" episode from the first season of the "Louie" show. (That's Louie CK, so-- fair warning.)
Here's the deal: Daniel Tosh makes his living being offensive and getting people to laugh at inappropriate things. Getting mad at him for saying something offensive is like getting mad at Don Rickles for insulting someone.
This woman knew that before she sat down in the audience. She thought she was there to laugh at OTHER people and got offended when her personal issue got insulted as well.
I feel ZERO sympathy for her or for anyone else in the audience that day who professed to be "offended" by something he said on stage. She knew what she was signing up for, she's just mad it was directed at her.
Ah. The insult women always fall back on, "Your problem is your dick's too small."
No, not all women. Just the ones you date.
"Was this joke funny" is not the same question as "was this joke good for society".
Unlike you, Revenant, I can process two thoughts simultaneously.
pst314 said...
It's always funny when feminists joke about cutting off a man's penis, right?
Not always. It is when they talk about needing microsurgery instruments to get at yours.
Sickening, really. Those who defend Tosh and Russian rape. It's all situational, right. Let's look for that deeper, funny context, to excuse immorality no matter its guise.
Let's see...have I missed anyone's retarded comment?
Oh yeah, there's Synova, who can't tell the difference b/w a joke and an epic failure of a retort to a "heckler".
Must those stupid fucking eyeglasses of hers.
Whee! Comedy is fun!
And so easy, too!
"Cicely Tyson? I thought it was Garrett Morris in drag."
Nope! It's Cicely herself.
I'm only sorry it's Tom Davis doing the gangrape and not Al Franken. It might have been nice to have that in reserve in case there's ever an opportunity to rub his face in it!
Chip S. said...
Let's see...have I missed anyone's retarded comment?
Chip, Sandra Bernhard is indefensible; I don't care if she is your type. And it's not a 1st Amendment issue either--just common decency. In her case it's very easy to see why she resented Palin so.
"just common decency"
No such thing, anymore.
Indecency is the new common.
Sorry, Chip, I don't date. Haven't in over 12 years. I decided to enjoy my old age.
Chip, Sandra Bernhard is indefensible
I don't know how in hell you can read any of my comments as supporting what she said about Palin.
@Kensington,
In the "Frontier Midwife" the sick Canadian trapper ("Rene'") who jumps out of bed and says to the others "Let me 'ave her first! I've been seeck" is quite definitely Al Franken.
How do I remember this skit so well? One reason I can reveal here is that I was watching it in college in a girls' dorm with two of my male buds, but otherwise in a room full of women. At the end of the skit, I remember every female eye in the room glaring at me (and, no, I wasn't laughing like an asshole -- I was appalled). It was not a comfortable feeling.
Unlike you, Revenant, I can process two thoughts simultaneously.
I guess we'll have to take your word for it. :)
Anyway, the two (non-prison) rape jokes I know:
Joke #1:
Back during WW2, a squad of six GIs were patrolling the Bavarian countryside when they came across a barn. Inside they found a beautiful young German farm girl. In short order they had her pinned down and started ripping off her clothes.
"Nein, nein!" the girl screamed.
The sergeant, a Midwestern boy raised to respect women and treat them politely, nodded and turned to one of the other soldiers.
"Private, run back to HQ and tell 'em we need three more men."
Joke #2 (courtesy of my southern childhood)
Q: What do you call a black man and a white woman in a sleeping bag?
A: Rape
And, for those not offended yet, the one Holocaust joke I know:
What's the difference between a Jewish grandmother and a chocolate chip cookie? The chocolate chip cookie doesn't scream when you put it in the oven.
YoungHegelian,
There was another SNL skit from early on -- the one where Garret Morris sings the "I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see" song -- where the recurring joke is prisoners auditioning for a play and repeatedly trying to rape Gilda Radner's character.
By the time they finished the Russian Army had 10,000,000 dead and the Russian civilians had 159,000,000 dead.
Um... 169 million is slightly greater than the entire 1939 population of the USSR.
I do think the point he was making beforehand is valid.
I also think that "'Wouldn't it be funny if that girl got raped by like, five guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her?'" was neither funny nor furthering of his point. He got carried away. That happens. Sometimes when that happens it's funny, and sometimes it is not. Amidst, points get lost.
Clarity is a damnably scarce thing.
Revenant,
Um... 169 million is slightly greater than the entire 1939 population of the USSR.
Yes. traditionalguy, would you care to relocate a decimal point or two? 'Cause some of us hicks in these here parts are actually bothered about orders of magnitude.
Revenant, I noticed only now that traditionalguy had said 159,000,000 civilian dead, and in reply you said he'd said 169,000,000 civilian dead, and I didn't notice.
Even in the context of WWII, ten million civilian deaths isn't a rounding error.
"Mr. Macho," Chip S, has it all figured out:
"Edgy or not, it's still funny or die And that cocksucker died right there on stage."
Yeah! You told 'em! Yeah! He's a "cocksucker!" Yeah!
The incident didn't happen the way it was "reported." It was quite different.
Tosh was, contrary to the original blogger's account, doing a bit that he does quite often. In it, he argues that there are no topics that are off limits when it comes to comedy. He takes to task those who would limit standup. I doubt you've heard the bit. You've probably never seen Tosh perform live. I doubt you've ever seen anyone perform standup live. Yet none of that stops you from calling Tosh a "cocksucker."
Nice.
You'll believe anything.
Chip S. talks a good game (sorta), but he knows nothing about standup. I suppose that someone who doesn't know anything about standup might read his comments and think Chip S. really knows what he's talking about. (Hard to believe, but there are people who know even less about standup than Chip S. does.)
It's more than a little annoying to listen to someone gas on and on about something they know little or nothing about. And it's particularly grating for someone who has been in standup for 30 years. Ignore him... he is not only woefully ignorant when it comes to standup, he's not really up on the facts as they happened that night.
chickelit wrote:
And it's not a 1st Amendment issue either--just common decency. In her case it's very easy to see why she resented Palin so.
Because Sarah Palin is a hot vivacious woman and Berhard looks like the offspring of inbred mongoloids gang raped by Mick Jagger.
[John Doe]talks a good game (sorta), but he knows nothing about [fill in the blank]. I suppose that [a John Doe] who doesn't know anything about [fill in the blank] might read his comments and think [John Doe] really knows what he's talking about. (Hard to believe, but there are people who know even less about [fill in the blank] than [John Doe] does.)
It's more than a little annoying to listen to someone gas on and on about something they know little or nothing about. And it's particularly grating for someone who has been [doing something/standing up for whatever] for 30 years. Ignore [John Doe]... he is not only woefully ignorant when it comes to standup, he's not really up on the facts as they happened [in contexts {and the "s" is not a typo}].
LMAO.
I mean, really?????????????
Dang, I first heard about Lenny Bruce (heard about his routines and how they were quoted) when my family was still living in Greencastle, IN. I did attend kindergarten there, though we moved from that place to Monmouth, IL, the summer thereafter. There, I still heard about Bruce and I also heard about George Carlin (heard about him, his routines & how they were quoted), and so I continued to hear even when/after we moved to Delaware in 1971.
Sometimes I just want to bawl: Are you f'in' kidding me? Do people actually think that no one has ever paid attention to all the swirls and swirlings-about in their lifetimes?
I mean: pfshwowpfuiewhatxoidjdwtfwhateverxxkwertywtfiuyuytitstoweepmnbnbnbvsohshit.
That the woman has lied about the incident t (for example, she said she stormed out and complained to a female manager while the male manager who was actually there said she complained after his set) and that he did say it'd be funny if she got draped right there seems immaterial to many. Don't know why.
Also Tosh (who is hilarious) didn't bring up raps jokes. Another audience member did.
Make a spectacle of yourself at a comedy show and you earn what you get.
Revenant, I noticed only now that traditionalguy had said 159,000,000 civilian dead, and in reply you said he'd said 169,000,000 civilian dead, and I didn't notice.
I said 169 million, not 169 million civilians. He said 10 million military + 159 million civilian.
159 + 10 = ____
I give that woman credit for standing up and saying what she did.
Tosh's retort about gangraping her for doing it was extremely mean-spirited and not funny. If a comedian doesn't know how to handle a heckler he's a poor comedian.
Let's make sure we know what was actually said.
An audience member mentioned rape jokes and Tosh sarcastically said "Yeah, rape jokes are always funny". The lady then said they are "never funny" and Tosh said she acts like she'd been gang-raped by 5 dudes.
Not that it should happen, but that it had happened.
He didn't say anything resembling "Hey, dudes, run a train on her".
Tosh is harsh. He will lace into hecklers. He has forced hecklers to move to the back of an auditorium and allow people who wants to enjoy the show move to the front. The woman apparently didn't know who he was (she was there to see Dane Cook, apparently) and decided to speak up. Doing that in a comedy show with people who have learned how to unleash hell on hecklers is an exceedingly poor idea.
Yeah, he goes over the top. A lot. But he usually does it himself. Having his "pleasure coach" work his writers was funny, but the most absurd part, naturally, he did himself. He is one of the better comedians out there right now.
George Carlin covered this years ago...
Seriously.
I think Tosh can be funny, although he isn't always. I've never seen his standup.
Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A: That's not funny!
I'm still waiting for Ernest Scribbler to comment.
But I guess he was killed by his own joke.
Leslyn, it's funny that you should mention dick cutting.
You might want to youtube "Catherine Kieu." You will find an episode of "The Talk" in which the (female) hosts, along with what I presume to be a predominately female audience, find an instance of penis cutting uproariously funny. Not hypothetical dick cutting, mind you; an actual instance of dick cutting. Funny as hell. And, to be clear, we're not talking about a throwaway comment. The "bit" lasted on the order of ten minutes.
I don't remember that they got a great deal of pushback. Certainly not more than Tosh.
What conclusion do you think one should draw from this?
To all of the fact checkers that do math...Sorry about last nights quick comment on Russian dead numbers, that I screwed up on.
The total was only 26.9 million dead of which 10 million were soldiers. My eye slipped and saw 269 million total, thus seeming to leave 159 million civilian deaths.
The German's intentional starvation plans for civilians were stopped before they worked on more than a few hundred thousand the first winter. But had Moscow fallen the Russians would have all died soon. Moscow was the key transportation hub for Russia, as Bastogne was in the Ardennes Offensive 3 years later, and failing to take it allowed the counterattacks.
Another error that I made: the end of the German offensive operations in Russia was Dec. 1, 1941, not 1942.
You know, it's funny that Tradguy is all for coming down on George Zimmerman for 2nd Degree murder, despite not a scintilla of evidence that George was not acting in self defence as he claims... but the Red Army can commit the institutionalized rape of millions of women and girls and he's all, like "well, shit happens! Don't pick fights you can't finish!"
Leslyn...Rape is a serious act of violence. It is never funny, and the death penalty still makes sense to me... as long as the false accusations of he said/ she said can be excluded from the system.
Imo laughing at our evil tendencies that we men must restrain in peacetime, is a way to keep our savageness restrained. It is one way we get by and stay male.
My point was that modern war has far worse violence. And we left out the sweet Japanese.
Jason...Good point about Zimmerman. But my position was that Zimmerman needs to go to trial and the Jury will sort it out and end the wild speculation. Zimmerman told too perfect of a story for me.
The Germans under the Third Reich, earned their destruction. In the End Hitler decided to destroy them too ordering the scorched earth retreat in 1945 because they lhad et him down. Is Zimmerman part German?
t-guy,
It IS worth remembering that the Soviets started out the war as Germany's de facto allies.
If they had stood with France and the UK against German aggression, rather than partnering with them to invade neighbors, it is questionable the war would have happened at all.
traditionalguy,
To all of the fact checkers that do math...Sorry about last nights quick comment on Russian dead numbers, that I screwed up on.
The total was only 26.9 million dead of which 10 million were soldiers. My eye slipped and saw 269 million total, thus seeming to leave 159 million civilian deaths.
Soooo ... you subtracted 10 million from 269 million, and came up with 159 million? You aren't exactly helping your case here.
Revenant,
It IS worth remembering that the Soviets started out the war as Germany's de facto allies.
De jure allies, if treaties mean anything. They'd already planned out how they were to divvy up Poland and other Eastern European countries.
It cannot be repeated too often that the CPUSA and its fellow travelers urged the US to stay out of the war until the Nazis invaded the USSR. Leftist opinion about Germany changed rather rapidly after June 1941.
Michele...Don't confuse me. Can I blame wiki?
Leftist opinion about Germany changed rather rapidly after June 1941.
You are correct. Madison's Bill Evjue, founder and editor of the "The Capital Times," penned a famous editorial right after Pearl Harbor to announce his conversion.
After Hitler arrived in Germany, all of the surrounding pawns on Hitler's chess board were signing "Non-Agression Pacts" with Germany as fast as they could as if that would stop him.
Neville Chamberlin famously got into that line for one, which was ever after been seen as the "Eat Me Last Please" tactic.
And Stalin was fooled by a Non-Agression pact and a map of redistributed Poland.
It did not work out because 10 months later Hitler ate Russia as #12 out of the 14 Nations on his menue.
He took Austria, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Poland, France, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Greece, Yugoslavia, and finally Russia. Italy was spared until Musolini was deposed. England and the USA were 13 an 14 on the menue and came last. So Leo Szilard made it to England and then to the USA, and the rest is history.
And Stalin was fooled by a Non-Agression pact and a map of redistributed Poland.
It may have been mathematically impossible for the USSR to lose 169,000,000 of its 168,500,000 citizens -- but your claim that it did is still arguably more accurate that the description of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, above.
Revenent...Were you there in August 1939? The Russians were trying to get a treaty with England to squeeze Hitler up until a week before they turned to Hitler's sudden new proposal in late August 1939 as a way to stop him, and it did stop him for 2 years.
That treaty was a pact for each to remain neutral if attacked by another, i.e., Britain and France. It also gave each an area of influence it could attack at will.
Until then, if Stalin had recieved an acceptible British Empire treaty of alliance proposal he was ready to take it. But the idiot Chamberlain was still hiding his head in the sand hoping Hitler would go away.
If Chamberlain had dealt with Stalin, then Poland would have been safe, and neither Poland nor Russia would have been dignated as a vast stretch of emptied Aryan lebensraum with its survivors working in slave laboring to death camps.
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