IN THE COMMENTS: Bob says:
Get real. They have to wear stage makeup for the debate, so if Santorum is wearing ashes for the event, it means he either had an aide prepare ashes for it, or has a priest backstage.
February 22, 2012
"What I’d love to see at tonight’s debate..."
"... Ashes."
IN THE COMMENTS: Bob says:
IN THE COMMENTS: Bob says:
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97 comments:
Over his pancake makeup?
Actually, I think I'm going to be disappointed in Santorum if he doesn't.
Update II: According to Rick Klein via Guy Benson, Santorum is campaigning in Arizona with ashes on his head, so it’s probable he’ll still have ‘em this evening.
This is perfect for someone running to be theocrat in chief.
Be very afraid, Andy. A religious nut is already just a heartbeat away from seizing power.
I know, I know. Your response will be that he's not a nut, just a hypocrite.
I'll be disappointed if he doesn't, cause no way he should bend to the likes of Andy.
It's probably not the best idea, however. This country is full of Andys.
Get real. They have to wear stage makeup for the debate, so if Santorum is wearing ashes for the event, it means he either had an aide prepare ashes for it, or has a priest backstage.
I find it hilarious that the brit telecasters in the Biden loop have no clue what's on Joe's head.
Biden link, of the press conference, that is, not loop.
I just realized that Mittens was behind the Satan brouhaha. He's kinda diabolical that way.
Not an 11th Commandment kinda guy.
And he seems so nice and non-offensive! And yet all the other Republicans keep getting reamed in the media.
Bwahahahaha.
This is perfect for someone running to be theocrat in chief.
Theocrat in Chief is awkward. You need something like Ayatollah or Executive Arch Bishop.
"This is perfect for someone running to be theocrat in chief."
Is Obama theocrat-in-chief since he admits to using the Bible as guidance?
Also: Yeah. Make-up would probably force them to get rid of the ashes.
That would be a good debate question, by the way. "Governor there seems to be a lot of attacks in the media against your opponents. Are you violating Reagan's 11th Commandment? For instance, is your campaign responsible for the recent attack on Senator Santorum?"
It would be interesting to see if he would admit to it.
What channel is the debate on? I gotta watch for this.
I hope they get to discuss the latest Republican talking point about how Satan had infiltrated the Girl Scouts who now promote homosexuality and abortions.
Santorum, definitely; Newt, likely.
PS Hatman needs to wake up to the fact his Messiah is the Theocrat In Chief.
He worships the Trinity of Father Karl, Uncle Saul, and that SOB, Mao.
Mathew 6 seems to apply here:
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
....
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Didn't we all just recently learn, during the kerfuffle over Santorum raising the spectres of religious sincerity and/or adherence to a secular faith, that religion is a strictly personal thing, out of bounds for anyone to question?
I heard that CNN decided to ask Satan to the debate tonight meet equal time requirements, and Ron Paul gladly gave his up podium to his master.
Satan apparently wants to show us how to Gregorian Chant "Shame, Shame, Shame" should be performed as total worship to him. He is a very proud musician when he is not destroying American institutions.
Santorum, definitely; Newt, likely.
Oh, yeah, Newt! He can't let Santorum show him up.
I kind of think that I remember from my Catholic upbringing that the ashes should be worn until sunset, so, if that's the case, it shouldn't be an issue since the debate will be later. But, of course, I think the evening masses are usually over after sunset, so I'm not sure about that.
I must confess that in my youth (in a region where Catholicism was kind of weird), I had a penchant for going to noon mass on Ash Wednesday. Yes, I got to skip school, which was nice, but I also got kind of a kick out of having people ask about them. It's something that I grew out of, of course, once I got a better understanding of the whole religious exhibitionism thing.
Newt's a new Catholic convert, and converts always over do it. So Newt will have his entire forehead blackened.
The Episcopalians do it too. But they don't believe the ashes save you.
Lyssa said...
I kind of think that I remember from my Catholic upbringing that the ashes should be worn until sunset, so, if that's the case, it shouldn't be an issue since the debate will be later.
We were always told you let them wear off. No time frame.
Black ash on a republican white face..
Why bother with an election ;)
It appears that another change has been made to the Word Verification thingy.
Andy R. said...
Update II: According to Rick Klein via Guy Benson, Santorum is campaigning in Arizona with ashes on his head, so it’s probable he’ll still have ‘em this evening.
This is perfect for someone running to be theocrat in chief.
Whenever I read your comments I mourn Christopher Hitchens passing all over again.
traditionalguy said...
So Newt will have his entire forehead blackened.
Don't even go there with the blackface stuff. That's firedoglake territory.
(Obama)worships the Trinity of Father Karl, Uncle Saul, and that SOB, Mao."
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Didn't we all just recently learn, during the kerfuffle over Santorum raising the spectres of religious sincerity and/or adherence to a secular faith, that religion is a strictly personal thing, out of bounds for anyone to question?
I don't agree that's what we learned. I personally think we should get everyone's cards out on the table so we see where they're coming from.
Newt's a new Catholic convert, and converts always over do it. So Newt will have his entire forehead blackened.
They put the ashes on themselves?
"Is Obama theocrat-in-chief since he admits to using the Bible as guidance?"
Nearly all politicians, if pressed, will "admit" (i.e., claim) to "using the Bible as guidance," but where is the evidence for it?
I'm sure Jesus is down with sending robot planes to bomb people getting married or buried, among other targets.
My ashes always fade before the end of the day. I don't see how Santorum's could be intact after a full day of campaigning and, as Bob observed, stage makeup. If he's got a visible smudge on his forehead at the debate, it's an intentional and calculated display of religion--something I loathe from politicians. Biden's was incidental--a matter-of-fact but non-threatening reminder to people like Andy R. that Christians exist in politics and they should get over it, and I found that charming.
If we need to inject religion into politics, maybe just ask what each candidate gave up for Lent. I gave up soda. Which I love. Deeply.
Robert Cook said...
(Obama)worships the Trinity of Father Karl, Uncle Saul, and that SOB, Mao."
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
So, of course, does Cook.
What's the line -
And, as the flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite
I saw Satan laughing with delight
The day the music died
But Diet Coke is the elixir of life (clutching). I always end up giving up something that I ought to have given up a month and a half ago as part of New Years resolution.
Imus's Bernard McGuirk said he lives such a spartan life, that it's hard to imagine anything to give up.
Maybe porn, he said. "We'll see how the day goes."
As I said somewhere else if you mix stage makeup and ashes you get something that looks like a turd.
Which would fit the wearer perfectly.
They have to wear stage makeup for the debate
_______________
They "have to"? What? Is there some kind of makeup mandate?
But the question of whether anyone should leave the ashes on one's forehead or wash them off is a question of prudential balance.
On the one hand, as Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount, we are called to be a witness of Christ to the world, to not be ashamed of Him or otherwise deny that we are Christian.
On the other hand, as Jesus says in the same Sermon soon thereafter, but be sure not to be a self-aggrandizing poseur who makes a big show of his religiosity only in order to gain the praise of others.
So, a judgment call is required for the Christian to continue to be a visible presence in the world, but not for our own benefit, but so that others might be more drawn to God.
By the way, there are plenty of photographs out there of VP Joe Biden out in public with ashes on.
But I don't remember any snarky ridicule coming from the usual suspects about that.
What the enemies of Santorum need, the thing that would destroy him, is a recording of Santorum saying to his makeup artist tonight,
"Keep your hands off the goddamn dot. It's a very important dot."
Anyone giving up anything for lent?
My wife: chocolate
Me: alcohol
And we're not even Catholic (she talked me into it).
BTW Hatman, Satan is coming for you! Bwahhahhaha!
Ashes to ashes, funk to funky
We know Major Tom's a junkie
Strung out in heaven's high
Hitting an all-time low
- david bowie
More importan things:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9099511/Abortion-investigation-doctors-filmed-agreeing-illegal-abortions-no-questions-asked.html
So catholics are fair game. Most comments here are disrepecful.
phx and Jose_K, exactly! Either all the cards are face up, or not. Obama's a Christian? Fine. I can't question that? OK. But in that case, shut your trap about ashes on the foreheads.
In general, I think it's wise, respectful, and nice to just assume that individuals' faiths are their own affair. Like phx, I still judge them on those faiths and on my assessments of their adherence to them.
Saint Croix - "Are you violating Reagan's 11th Commandment? For instance, is your campaign responsible for the recent attack on Senator Santorum?"
===============
That those holy words issued forth from the lips of Reagan the Magnificent and he campaigned as the nice guy who never spaketh ill of a fellow Republican is the biggest load of shit in Reagan lore.
Bigger that bankers and Wall Street as the moral standouts in the community, could be trusted to regulate themselves.
Reagan was a prime Goldwater attack dog against the nefarious East Coasters led by Rockefeller. He then laid into Nixon in 1968, presenting himself as a good guy forced to slime Nixon.
In 1976, his bruising trashing of Gerald Ford weakened the President in the general election. In 1980, he and HW Bush were at each others throats until "Reagan became inevitable" and one of his aides then suggested the 11th Commandment, which Saint Reagan really liked.
Nowadays, it is evoked by people like Newt. Who wants to go negative, but lacks the money to do so..
Or in Bob Dole's/McCain's case - aginst opponents that question their entitlement, whether Bob Dole getting his turn from decades of toil in the Republican fields...or McCain's belief that of the 597 POWs, none of the others married a multimillionairess and thus became entitled by SERVING and SUFFERING!! - to be President.
phx said...
Newt's a new Catholic convert, and converts always over do it. So Newt will have his entire forehead blackened.
===============
Well, if the amount of sin and sleaze that could be wiped away was proportional to the amount of ash applied, yes, Newt would have his whole forehead, even face. coated in ash.
And if the cameras panned to Callista in the audience, she would look like a chimney sweep.
John King: Mr. Santorum, why do you hate women?
I encourage you to not cover the debate. It is over for me; I will not see the debate. I will not vote in Nov.
Why? The GOP is going to be creamed in every district in every state by The Billion Dollar Team, Obama-Biden.
Santorum (the man who is living in 1912 and whose views on women are pre-historic) is going to destroy the GOP - they lose White House, House, and a bigger loss in Senate.
Newt (the fat-marrying man and who opposes others to marry even once) is also going to destroy the GOP. Can someone send him to the Moon, please.
Mitt will be known as guilty by historians because he did not do anything to stop Rick and Newt. If he cannot stop then, then how can he stop the Team-Billion.
Paul, the real star. Should he support Mitt and help to destroy Rick and Newt, then his legacy will endure. His son will benefit as well. Today I sent $10 to Paul campaign.
Cheers,
Ali Karim Bey Eorse
Actually, Joe, the relevant passages are Joel 1:14 "Announce a sacred fast...and cry out to the LORD," and Mark 8:34 "...let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow Me." An ashen cross is not a disfigurement; it's a witness.
I got my ashes at 7 am this morning and they were gone by the time I got home from work just after 5. All day, I only had four co-workers comment on them. One who always does (for some reason my ashes bother her, but other people talking about going to church on Sunday or singing in choir doesn't), two who just moved to my office and hadn't ever seen them, and one friend who asked if I made it to get them toward the end of the day - then she got close enough to see what was left of them.
I would be offended if Santorum or Gingrich had them put back on to be seen today.
Bob said:
Get real. They have to wear stage makeup for the debate, so if Santorum is wearing ashes for the event, it means he either had an aide prepare ashes for it, or has a priest backstage.
And OMG(!), what a scandal THAT would be, eh? A religious person backstage -- gasp!
The Ash Wednesday ceremony is all about repentance, repentance and repentance. That is a good thing since faith without a repentance is useless.
The ashes are a sign that mortal man is ashes and returns to ashes. All very somber stuff. It focuses on the temporariness of all of our lives. It acknowledges that we need God's grace to live eternal lives in heaven.
A smart lawyer would set up a Wills and Estates sales booth outside, and hope that Jesus doesn't overturn their tables and drive them out.
As usual mine wore off pretty quickly. By the time I got home after Mass, and having been to the grocer afterward, I had little more than a black smudge. And by around 3pm that was mostly gone, perhaps due to my taking a nap.
If you want to see me with a black cross on my forehead you pretty much have to catch me in the church parking lot as I leave on Ash Wednesday.
Saint Croix - "Are you violating Reagan's 11th Commandment? For instance, is your campaign responsible for the recent attack on Senator Santorum?"
===============
That those holy words issued forth from the lips of Reagan the Magnificent and he campaigned as the nice guy who never spaketh ill of a fellow Republican is the biggest load of shit in Reagan lore.
Bigger that bankers and Wall Street as the moral standouts in the community, could be trusted to regulate themselves.
Reagan was a prime Goldwater attack dog against the nefarious East Coasters led by Rockefeller. He then laid into Nixon in 1968, presenting himself as a good guy forced to slime Nixon.
In 1976, his bruising trashing of Gerald Ford weakened the President in the general election. In 1980, he and HW Bush were at each others throats until "Reagan became inevitable" and one of his aides then suggested the 11th Commandment, which Saint Reagan really liked.
Nowadays, it is evoked by people like Newt. Who wants to go negative, but lacks the money to do so..
Or in Bob Dole's/McCain's case - aginst opponents that question their entitlement, whether Bob Dole getting his turn from decades of toil in the Republican fields...or McCain's belief that of the 597 POWs, none of the others married a multimillionairess and thus became entitled by SERVING and SUFFERING!! - to be President.
Mitt is mopping the floor with the rest of the field.
The Episcopalians do it too. But they don't believe the ashes save you.
Catholics don't believe that ashes save you -- what an odd thing to say. The ashes are just a reminder of how short this life is. Wherever did you get the idea that Catholics think salvation lies in ashes? Getting ashes is not even a sacrament, nor is Ash Wednesday a holy day of obligation.
Joan...My apologies for a bad joke. ESPN would probably fire me for that one.
Peace be with you.
I'd like to see ashes on that stage too, but with all the security surrounding candidates nowadays how is anyone supposed to get into the hall with a flamethrower?
Tyrone Slothrop said...
Mitt is mopping the floor with the rest of the field.
Very custodial metaphor.
And OMG(!), what a scandal THAT would be, eh? A religious person backstage -- gasp!
It would make me wonder why he's doing the Ash things twice in one day.
I'm just home from the late service. Gonna wash my face.
tradguy -- no worries. I think my humor circuit is impaired these days.
I can't bear to watch these spectacles, but I was in the room long enough when my husband was watching to notice that there were no ashes on stage. What's the consensus? Any surprises?
Mitt is mopping the floor with the rest of the field.
A more apt metaphor today would have been sweep.. but since Mitt has not done that, I guess mop will have to do.
Poor writing btw..
George Orwell told you long ago — in "Politics and the English Language": "Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print."
Tyrone Slothrop said...
Mitt is mopping the floor with the rest of the field.
I thought Newt had a good night, but, yeah, Santorum had his hide nailed to the barn door, mostly by Milton - who had a very good night.
Very custodial metaphor.
A stealth dig at Newt.
edutcher wrote: Santorum had his hide nailed to the barn door, mostly by Milton
Barnyard humor at its best.
@Lem: Actually, I thought it was a dig at Romney.
SubMitt: resistance is Newtile
I am watching Santorum and his family being interviewed by Gloria Berger.
Is his daughter high? Either that or she looks like she is having an orgasm.
@edutcher: Everytime I see "Milton" I think of Milton Bradley. Of course Parker Bros. were the competition. I wonder if American boomers sorted into MB people vs. Parker Bros. people--sorta like Beatles vs. Stones people.
Lem said...
George Orwell told you long ago — in "Politics and the English Language": "Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print."
At the end of the day, this is just a tempest in a teapot. Orwell wants you to go the extra mile, to give your writing 110%, but he is just a dog in the manger. I wouldn't give him the time of day. Let your simile be your umbrella.
Mitt lied...again, of course, about the entire Mass Catholic/Romneycare issue.
He is the biggest liar.
He likes trees, and lakes, and cars.
At least Santorum seems genuine.
I'm Beatles/Chevrolet/Pepsi/Parker Brothers.
@Titus
So, tell me, ya figure Obama lied when he said he opposed gay marriage, or does he just hate gays?
I would do Santorum.
My sense is he has a big hog which would be hot.
Also, because he is so holy it would be even hotter.
What's the consensus? Any surprises?
We need home-schooled, e-verified, non union workers, to build a giant birth control fence. Also, Iran.
Because I said Romney lied doesn't mean I think Obama lied.
They both lied.
OK?
Stones/Ford/Coke/Milton Bradley here.
That was a weird debate. The debaters kept talking about political philosophy and specific policies. They fought each other on the issues. The moderator and the questioners (how did they select these people?) kept trying to turn it into a high-school-level thing.
Newt won the base; Mitt won the middle; Paul won the fringe. Santorum lost.
I would not do Ari Fleischer or Erick Erickson. They are pasty and fat.
Anderson is gay so I don't have any interest.
I would do John King though.
Donna Braz is a big dyke.
Gloria Berger may have a tight cooch.
tits.
Jan Brewer looks like she has a loose vage with low hanging lips.
No potential sucker vage lips to grab and hold your hog hard and make it feel loved and secure while banging them.
And that's sad.
tits.
"At least Santorum seems genuine."
Genuinely anti-sodomy, yes. LOL at Titus-- Titus!-- advocating for Santorum over Romney. OK, "fellow Republican."
PS My snark is a little unfair because IIRC you were/ are a Bostonian-- during Romney's tenure?-- so your dislike of Romney may well be earned. Still: LOL. And I'm so sure you have your "fellow Republicans'" best interests at heart.
My main interest when watching these debates is what do these people look like naked and would they be hot in the sack.
From the "contestants" to the audience to the moderator to the camera man.
Because really, in life, this is the most important issue that any of us face anywhere in our day to day life.
Would you do them?
If not, how fast can you escape them, because they don't really have anything to offer.
Other than a waste of time/energy and space.
tits.
Titus, you wouldn't do Romney? IMO he's not too shabby looks-wise (especially compared to Newt and Santorum and Ron). Is it the underwear that turns you off?
I would definitely not do Mitt. He is very handsome but way too vanilla.
I need them to look a little dangerous and nasty.
He is just too boring looking.
I don't find him attractive sexually but he is handsome.
So Titus, stupid sex?
There are web sites and blogs for that, or so I've heard.
Titus said...
Because really, in life, this is the most important issue that any of us face anywhere in our day to day life.
Would you do them?
Titus exposes the real tragedy of Sarah Palin's absence from this race.
Titus: 'cause, you know, I'm just asking. You've got this great troll thing going, and I don't want to, as I heard some years ago, harsh your shred, or anything like that. Far be it from me, especially without access to street lingo!
But you sound stupid and are debasing the discussion.
Styx, Mazda,dr.pepper, Avalon Hill for me.
LOL, Tyrone. I've gradually come to dislike Palin (I was once very much a fan). But there's no denying she has considerable sexual magnetism, for an American female political figure. But if we're fantasizing about hot women presidential candidates, I'd rather see Condi and her boots of shiny, shiny leather.
Titus, I get that. And I can see how Santorum-- with his particular obsessions, moralizing fulminations, sanctimonious prudishness-- might make for the best dirty fantasies. The taming of the shrew!
(Sorry, Bob Ellison. I shouldn't encourage him, and I'm not contributing to serious discussion myself. And sorry, Santorum supporters. But it's not like Santorum hasn't made himself a bulls-eye for this stuff. Santorum certainly doesn't deserve what his name has come to signify in filthy slang. But there's a reason Dan Savage chose "Santorum"-- not any other Republican politician's name, e.g. someone with more national significance at the time-- for his coinage, given the themes-- ostensibly "public policy" issues-- Santorum himself has chosen to focus on throughout his public political career. Like I said, if you're a politician who thinks it's of national importance to talk about "sodomy", then you better know what you're letting yourself in for.
Titus exposes the real tragedy of Sarah Palin's absence from this race.
Precisely. There's no apotheosis for us middle-aged white wingers. There's no totem goddess for us to blindly worship. There is only fetid sodomy (a word yashu brings up in every thread) to distract us from the economy and it's not working.
The author of the linked source wants to see one of the candidates reduced to a pile of ashes?
(reads linked source)
Never mind.
The first candidate who favors putting the person who creates these Captcha images in wooden stocks on public display for a few days has my vote.
chickenlittle, I bring it up because it seriously bothers me that Santorum, a presidential candidate (and possible frontrunner), has persistently made it a focal topic of his political career.
You got me, here's one place (among others which Santorum brings up) where my libertarian rubber meets the road. But it's not just ideological. I find it creepy and repellent. I was joking with Titus; I'm deadly serious here. I have beloved gay friends and family member(s). I don't have a problem with Republican/ conservative opposition to gay marriage (I'm agnostic on the matter; I'm for civil unions). But I have a serious problem with the prospect of a POTUS-- ostensibly President of us all-- who thinks it proper *as a POTUS* to share with the American people his moral conviction that sodomy is an evil-- akin to bestiality. Because that's a "pubic policy" issue that he thinks a POTUS should talk about.
Maybe GWB thinks sodomy is icky or morally pernicious too. I respect that, according to his faith, homosexual acts may be deemed sinful. He didn't think it was his duty as POTUS to talk-- lecture to us-- about it. It's the Democrats who brought up Mary Cheney's sexuality, trading on homophobia-- a tawdry move that was soundly rejected by the American people-- not the Republicans.
I'm looking for a POTUS, not a preacher. If I want a preacher, I can choose a church to go to. So, yeah. Maybe to you "sodomy" is a distraction from the economy. FFS I AGREE with you, it *is* a terrible distraction. That's one reason (among others) why Santorum would be a *terrible* GOP candidate.
For the purposes of this comment, I'm leaving aside Santorum's implication that, as a single woman who uses birth control, I'm an immoral whore. Just what I want to hear from my President. You know, I think I'd find it less distasteful to be denounced as an evil 1%er.
Oh, and quit with the Palin pity party. I think I'm pretty good about not mocking Palin or her supporters; I try to be as measured as possible (yet honest) in my criticism. I call things as I see them. If you think I'm mocking you (I'd like you to show me where I've done so), IMO that's on you, not me.
Sorry, now I'm cranky.
I don't like losing my commenter temper. If I overreacted, I apologize.
Maybe GWB thinks sodomy is icky or morally pernicious too.
Dollars to donuts says he doesn't. The difference is that Romney and Bush pander to the social conservatives. Nothing wrong with that. It's politics. Obama panders at times to the shrill, silly left. Santorum actually believes the hokum. He's Dennis Kucinich, only taller and diametrically opposed.
Great post, Yashu.
this is awesome. go on !
Eset-Username-update
But I have a serious problem with the prospect of a POTUS-- ostensibly President of us all-- who thinks it proper *as a POTUS* to share with the American people his moral conviction that sodomy is an evil-- akin to bestiality. Because that's a "pubic policy" issue that he thinks a POTUS should talk about
I think you should go on pretending that the SCOTUS didn't make a ruling related to sodomy and Santorum is just barnstorming the country bringing these topics up out of the blue.
Some Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Methodists also recognize and participate in Ash Wednesday.
@traditionalguy,
[Satan] is a very proud musician when he is not destroying American institutions.
Reputedly, there's this fiddle-player in Georgia who would disagree with you.
Somehow he got this golden fiddle from Satan as a prize, and he loves to tell the story of how he got it...
Thank you for mentioning my comment, Ann.
viruskiller,
http://isotropic.org/papers/chicken.pdf
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