Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said during a Tuesday conference call that the petitions will be turned in to state election officials on Jan. 17. They need 540,208 for both [Republican Gov. Scott Walker and Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch] to trigger recall elections.Why not tell us the numbers? Why did they previously announce the number they had for Walker but clam up about Kleefisch? Could they be reserving the option to say they failed to get enough signatures?
Recall organizers said on Dec. 15 that they had 507,000 signatures for Walker but would not give a number for Kleefisch. Tate is still refusing to say how many signatures they have for her, but he says enough will be turned in to force a recall.
Tate says they are on track to get 720,000 signatures for Walker.
Why would they do that? I can think of a few reasons: 1. Their polling might show that Walker (and Kleefisch) would probably win; 2. Their fundraising is (I'm guessing) way behind Walker's, and Walker has already gone ahead with some excellent advertising, putting them at a serious disadvantage; 3. They don't have a candidate to run or they only have multiple candidates who'll have to beat each other up in a primary; and/or 4. They're worried that a recall election will have a negative effect on other elections that will be taking place in 2012.
ADDED: Another issue might be the prevalence of bad signatures on the petitions. Let's say they have more than the needed 540,208 signatures, but they know they've got a lot of questionable signatures in there. They don't want signature gatherers to slack off, thinking they've got it made. And the proportion of bad signatures isn't an issue they want to talk about.
AND: John Hinderaker says:
I was with Walker at a lunch event a few weeks ago, and he observed–correctly, I think–that the recall campaign has repercussions far beyond Wisconsin. If Walker, having carried out the promises on which he campaigned, can be evicted from office by the overwhelming force of left-wing money, reformers everywhere would be given pause. Likewise, if Wisconsin’s voters repudiate the Left’s vindictive campaign, it will give added impetus to reform efforts in other states.
So how is Walker doing? He has raised a fair amount of money to defend the recall, although he probably will be outspent two or three to one....
Posts
102 comments:
All of the above.
Walker has already gone ahead with some excellent advertising
If you're referring to the ad showing his sullen teenage sons slouching around looking like Spaulding from Caddyshack, I'm going to have to disagree.
5) Mike Tate doesn't know what he is doing.
I think they figured out what time it is.
Assuming that they have and they decide, perhaps, not to submit signatures (regardless of sufficiency). - then what are the limitations on the pot of gold that Walker has raised for the recall fight? He could be a real kingmaker in local races wit that $$$.
Or they don't really have the signatures.
They may be going through the signatures themselves looking for all the "Mickey Mouse" and "Donald Duck" ones.
They could have 2 million signatures, but are waiting to hear whether duplicates or fake names will be counted.
RonF beat me to it.
Wouldn't it be far more shocking if they DON'T get the signatures rather than if they do? Isn't that where we're at now? Does anyone really think it will be an honest process?
Man Althouse is really hell-bent on this "Democrats are MAYBE destroying their NATIONAL chances next year with the recall! That's plausible!" line. Wisky's important but not that important, come on now.
They will submit a number over what is needed. The Walker Campaign will force the GAB to cut out the fakes and duplicates to the point that they will not have enough signatures. The WI Dem Party will cry foul over the process and how Walker stole the recall from "the people", thus fueling Democrat rage machine, which is the only strategy the Dems have.
It's not his fault. The petitions are kept in a motel in Illinois out of fear that Walker will use his erase powers on them.
Wouldn't it be far more shocking if they DON'T get the signatures rather than if they do
Wisconsin has the toughest recall threshold in the country. So what they are doing is actually unprecedented. It's why you're hearing "Mickey Mouse!" "Hitler!" ad nauseum.
"Man Althouse is really hell-bent on this "Democrats are MAYBE destroying their NATIONAL chances next year with the recall! That's plausible!" line. Wisky's important but not that important, come on now."
1. It's a swing state in the presidential election.
2. Kohl's Senate seat is up for grabs and the majority in the Senate is in play.
The only way Wisconsin is not important is if the Democrats don't think they can win the presidency or keep the majority in the Senate.
So... yeah... maybe you're right! I think these things are in play, though.
I was under the impression that it was illegal to not turn in all signed recall petitions. Are Democrats permitted to destroy and or discard and or dispose recall petitions?
Ah yes, everything the left does lately is "historic".
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
They have at least a Bazillion signatures, mayhap TWO BAZILLION….You althouse smurf-tarrds….supporting dumber children, poorer teachers, and rich corrupt phat katz….
6) Maybe there isn't as much "there" there as they thought there would be.
Seems like they've been doing this whole recall thing "on the fly" - making it up as they go along.
Good question John Smith.
The GOP can win the Pres without WI. Obama cannot win it without WI. Obama is going to have it tougher in WI with Tommy running against Tammy for the senate. Obama and Tammy need the RAGE to continue through November. Victories against Walker would actually lower the Dem Rage and fire up the troops on the other side.
@ Ann
I think your updated reason is more likely. There were many encouragements to sign multiple peitions (from different collecting groups) in case one group was a fake. (like those people threatening to "forget" to turn them in, burn them, etc).
I'd imagine they have more duplicates than they'd like to admit.
"Why not tell us the numbers?"
Perhaps they have more "signatures" than there are people in the State of Wisconsin.
Tosa, the opposite could happen.
If Walker wins, the (D) gang is dispirited (and near-broke, too.) Conversely, the (R) gang is on a roll.
Makes WI difficult for Obama.
I suspect the average cheesehead is tired of the never-ending election cycle.
And the DEMS are having a bit of trouble finding the 500,000 sore losers that they need for a recall.
"Wisconsin has the toughest recall threshold in the country."
Yeah, no penalty for multiple signatures, and no intention of the controllong authority to throw out fradulent signatures. Man, that's brutal.
7) After the Kloppenburg fiasco, the Democrats have to make sure their cheating is beyond the possibility of failing.
"1. It's a swing state in the presidential election."
In the way Pennsylvania is a swing state, but even more so. As in, Republicans can dream about winning electoral votes there, but the likelihood is quite small.
This year, Republicans have a great chance to take Pennsylvania in a close result here. Wisconsin is more to the left than Pennsylvania. Unless he craters to under 35% approval, the president is going to win Wisconsin.
"2. Kohl's Senate seat is up for grabs and the majority in the Senate is in play."
This is the only point where you have a point, so to speak. Wisconsin is far more important in the contest to rule the Senate than the one for the Oval Office.
"The only way Wisconsin is not important is if the Democrats don't think they can win the presidency or keep the majority in the Senate."
Well they do think that! Maybe they're wrong and they will be shocked and embarrassed next year as Walker wins by 20%, the GOP presidential nominee by 5-10, and Kohl goes down in flames a la Feingold. But they still think that Wisconsin is solid for them next year, so... yeah... maybe... Wisconsin isn't that important nationally.
I don't see 2012 as a wave election, and without a wave against him, Obama will win Wisconsin. The only way I'm seeing him lose it is in a replay of 2008, with the GOP winning a large EV victory by taking razor-thin wins in traditional Blue states. The way Obama did in N. Carolina, Virginia, etc. Do you see that happening next year? I see a replay of 2004 more likely than 2008, GOP wins a relatively tight race.
They don't know how many to fake yet that's why.
"This year, Republicans have a great chance to take Pennsylvania in a close result here. Wisconsin is more to the left than Pennsylvania. Unless he craters to under 35% approval, the president is going to win Wisconsin."
If Wisconsin is so far left, how did it elect Scott Walker and Ron Johnson in 2010?
Also, if you go back to the 2000 election and the 2004 election, the Democrat only won Wisconsin by a tiny margin.
Wisconsin isn't a safe state. And it doesn't matter how low Obama "craters." What matters is whether people prefer him to the GOP candidate.
It may come down to just not being able to get the last 40 or 50 thousands unique valid signatures. All those committed and full of hate for Walker signed on day one, in fact they had stroke of midnight signing parties. Then over the next few weeks all the pretty much dedicated Walker haters signed. And so on.
Now that all the committed have signed it just might be damn hard to get the last 40,000 new signers among the non haters.
garage mahal wrote: Wisconsin has the toughest recall threshold in the country.
I thought they let you sign twice?
Yeah, no penalty for multiple signatures, and no intention of the controllong authority to throw out fradulent signatures. Man, that's brutal.
Funny this was never brought up before. Walker got on the ballot thru signatures as County Executive. He supported the recall of Feingold and others. There was no problem last summer with signature gathering of Dem senators. Now all of a sudden, there are problems! Perhaps instead of spending millions on fluff ads, he should start spending some money on verifying sigs? Instead he wants taxpayers to foot the bill and have GAB to do it.
I thought they let you sign twice?
Once for Walker, once for Kleefisch.
I'll respond, garage, I soon as I figure out your point.
I haven't had a single recall petitioner knock on my door in my 55 Dem-45 GOP part of Wauwatosa. I get goofball lefty petitioners on everything else. I understand that each teacher's lounge and public employee cube farm has 37 petitions lying around. But getting legitimate signatures out in the real world takes more work than what I am seeing put in.
I've only had one canvaser at my door in an extermely lefty neighborhood, and that person came during a Packer game (brilliant!). It was too bad, actually, because I was looking forward to having a conversation, but since the game was on I just shooed her away.
Wisconsin has the toughest recall threshold in the country.
You mean Wisconsin respects the will of the voters?.. that thing every four years they call elections?
I think that's a good thing.
Oh, they have the signatures.
It's just that half of them put down the address of a motel in Madison as their home address.
garage says: Funny this was never brought up before. Walker got on the ballot thru signatures as County Executive. He supported the recall of Feingold and others. There was no problem last summer with signature gathering of Dem senators
I guess it didn't occur to you that there is no problem when we recall you guys, because we don't cheat, let alone brag about it.
I keep hearing the phrase, "Not with a bang, but with a whimper", and it's not about the Mayans.
Well they do think that! Maybe they're wrong and they will be shocked and embarrassed next year as Walker wins by 20%, the GOP presidential nominee by 5-10, and Kohl goes down in flames a la Feingold.
Kohl announced his retirement several months ago so he's not running for re-election. Clearly you know little about what's going on in Wisconsin.
I don't understand why they are having a problem gathering enough signatures.
Are the union guys from Chicago taking too many breaks?
"Wisconsin has the toughest recall threshold in the country."
Only 19 states have the recall, however. It's just not a very good idea. At least we have a tough threshold. What a fabulous waste of the public's money and attention!
The practical reason they aren't saying how many they have is because they have less than two weeks left and don't want to discourage people from signing because they think "they've hit their goal." It's simple psychology.
Also, and this is often forgotten in the last time they announced, they did it on the day Walker had to announce his fund raising total. It was meant to distract from that news. Today, they don't have do anything to play news spoiler.
garage mahal wrote Once for Walker, once for Kleefisch.
So what's your beef with Kleefisch? Or is it that you just don't like Republicans?
There's a book called, Ladies and Gentlemen, The Bronx is Burning. It covers politics and culture in NYC leading up to and including 1977. This involved the Yankees rocketing upward while the city was in free fall. Son of Sam, arsons, street crime, the Dem Convention, to name a few topics.
Regarding city politics, it goes into detail Mayor Beame making very needed cuts to keep the city solvent, including laying off thousands of workers. In typical NY faction, the reaction was not civil w/ laid off cops vandalizing cars. However, in Wisconsin, NOBODY WAS LAID OFF. This temper tantrum is in some ways more hideous than cops vandalizing cars. The entitled are vandalizing our political system.
"Kohl announced his retirement several months ago so he's not running for re-election. Clearly you know little about what's going on in Wisconsin."
I forgot, sorry that Althouse is my main source for Wisconsin politics news.
Clearly it doesn't matter either other than for a sophomoric putdown.
"I was under the impression that it was illegal to not turn in all signed recall petitions. Are Democrats permitted to destroy and or discard and or dispose recall petitions?"
I have looked and I don't see where it says they can't simply decline to hand them in. It says they must be in by a particular date, but that might just mean you have to meet the deadline to go forward.
I mean what if you register for a recall and then only get half what you need? Do you have to file them? They need to be accounted for?
Here's the recall statute: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/9/10
I know people have been arrested for destroying petitions. But that seems to be Wisconsin Statutes 12.13(3)(a):
"No person may... Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall petition or petition for a referendum; or file or receive for filing a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made."
Declining to file wouldn't be fraudulently destroying the petitions, would it? In fact, that looks like it would be a crime to file the petitions knowing there are false signatures in them, which would create a duty NOT to file.
And the quoted material is the only part of the election fraud statute that refers to recalls.
"...looks like it would be a crime to file the petitions knowing there are false signatures in them, which would create a duty NOT to file."
Could the Dems be getting cold feet?
Nah, they'd expect the judiciary to cover for them.
";Well they do think that! Maybe they're wrong and they will be shocked and embarrassed next year as Walker wins by 20%, the GOP presidential nominee by 5-10, and Kohl goes down in flames a la Feingold.' Kohl announced his retirement several months ago so he's not running for re-election. Clearly you know little about what's going on in Wisconsin."
Thanks, James. I skimmed right past that.
deepelemblue really is out of touch. Check out the attempt at an excuse: "I forgot, sorry that Althouse is my main source for Wisconsin politics news."
Pathetic. Even this post conveys the needed information, as I said: ""2. Kohl's Senate seat is up for grabs and the majority in the Senate is in play."" But aside from that, I've blogged about 10 times about Kohl's leaving the Senate.
OMike,
"since the game was on I just shooed her away"
OMG--#RECALLPRANKFAIL!
"Hi, you've got a recall position to sign? Sure, but the game's on--come on in, I'll sign it as soon as the quarter ends or there's a timeout."
...
...
...
...
"OK, where's that petition? ... Hey, wait... this is a petition to recall the governor????? Sorry, can't sign that! Have a great afternoon, and do come by when you've got someone else to recall!!!"
wv - cornersh: a game hen after several drinks.
But, that would be dishonest, Kirk. More to the point, it didn't occur to me.
So, if I understand this correctly, it is OK in Wisconsin to undertake a recall, collect signatures, enlist the aid of hundreds of people, collect money in the effort, and then decide not to proceed? Is it not possible that the EVIL KOCH BROTHERS are behind this recall? This appears to be the kind of trick they most love to pull.
I wonder which is the most likely outcome of the recall effort:
a) The recall effort will collect 540,000 or more valid signatures and there will be a recall election for Governor Walker; or
b) The recall effort will collect 540,000 or more signatures but fewer than 540,000 will be valid and there will not be a recall election for Governor Walker; or
c) The recall effort will not collect 540,000 signatures and there will not be a recall election for Governor Walker.
What a fabulous waste of the public's money and attention!
Under recall public officials no longer will betray their constituency. Party platforms mean party performance. Public officials should no longer rely on the people forgetting before election day rolls around. They will face the immediate dishonor they deserve. I can see why Republicans don't like it.
"TosaGuy said...
I haven't had a single recall petitioner knock on my door in my 55 Dem-45 GOP part of Wauwatosa."
Maybe you weren't home because they came by my place on 70th Street near Lloyd, and by yard signs last November we are pretty GOP around here.
My geuss is they will easily get enough, but bad signatures will be very common. He probably doesn't want to release a high number due to complacency. The Democrats may back off getting more signatures then, so with bad ones thrown out, they may not have enough.
@garage: You sound like the kinda guy who would have cheered Robespierre back in the day.
"The WI Dem Party will cry foul over the process and how Walker stole the recall from "the people", thus fueling Democrat rage machine, which is the only strategy the Dems have."
Good point. Kind of like when groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center or NAACP need to raise funds, they have to find something to be outraged about.
garage: You sound like the kinda guy who would have cheered Robespierre back in the day.
Did you support recalling Gray Davis?
Can anyone here name a large (or even a medium) size American city whose government has not been corrupted by labor union money?
A city in which a majority of the elected common council is not beholden to labor unions? Whose pensions are neither lavish nor underfunded?
I ask the same question about school boards in large and medium cities: Can anyone name one school board not corrupted by labor union money and politics? Whose members are beholden first to students' parents, and not to the teachers' union?
I'm still trying to figure this out, even from the 507,000 number from 2 weeks ago - who is left to sign the recalls that haven't done so already? Is there another Madison out there? The people who want him recalled have already signed, and more than likely signed multiple times because they are paranoid that their signatures were hijacked by some right-wing fake petition gatherer. Were there many signatures taken yesterday other than at the Rose Bowl - it was damn cold yesterday! Are Californians contributing their signatures with a list of Wisconsin addresses (Pasadena WI anyone?) Of course, I don't see how that could help - if the goal is to force a recall, the actual people in the state still have to vote!
Anybody been to Paoli - they have a Recall Walker shack there...
Another possibility is that on a national basis, this recall may not be that big a deal for the Democrats going forward in 2012 - "bigger fish to fry" now, so the big guns aren't going to show up in WI to help. Awhile ago at a different site, someone who usually seems pretty credible about politics made the point that while there is one threshold for initiatating a recall (540,000+ sigs), there is another threshold that indicates if there is enough momentum to actually win - he stated that a 1,000,000 signatures would make a real statement. So maybe that is the untold story - they got enough signatures to do the recall, but not enough yet to make said recall feasible.
Did you support recalling Gray Davis?
I voted for Davis and then voted for Arnold. Did you vote for Walker and then feel betrayed? I didn't sign a petition to qualify it like you did. You are avant-gard stuff, garage--a Madison "revolutionary" through and through.
"Under recall public officials no longer will betray their constituency."
Scott Walker appears to be representing the constituency that voted him in - so this statement is nonsense.
"Party platforms mean party performance."
(head scratch)
"They will face the immediate dishonor they deserve."
If Walker is your 'they', again, this is nonsense - recall elections are for opposition parties and their special interests, in this case.
No matter how you try to sell this recall (and recalls in general) it isn't working. You and the 'others' that are for recall just sound like sore losers, with no substance as far as I can tell behind the recall other than pure politics.
Elections have consequences and recalls should only be considered under the most dire of circumstances. Despite the endless fuckery of your friends and assorted socialist drama queens, you really haven't convinced anyone (new) that you have any point at all.
@garage: Your only saving grace in my eyes is when you channel Stan Bran.
Haz:
Good question- maybe Salt Lake City?
You are avant-gard stuff, garage--a Madison "revolutionary" through and through.
Just a signature homeslice, like the signatures being signed all over the state.
Did you support recalling Gray Davis?
Bill Maher didn't and sounds like he wouldn't support recalling Walker either...
http://archive.truthout.org/article/bill-maher-recalls-are-cars-not-california-governors
Soon, the 5 county effort to recall Walker is going to clash with the 57 State effort to recall Obummer.
priorities...
"They will face the immediate dishonor they deserve."
They deserve? It's not about the politician and what they deserve, it's about what's best for the state. And I believe what is best for the state is that a duly elected official has an opportunity to enact their policies, those policies play out for awhile, and then we vote on the result.
Yeah, I know. How conservative of me.
@garage: It's a bit off topic but still relevant to voters changing their mind--I would gladly have taken back my vote for Gore based on his childish post-election antics in 2000. He wanted to be unduly elected. Your cheating ilk rub me the same way. You guys losts thousands of us--perhaps millions--and you still don't care.
Chickenlittle....Algore is the worst American ever. For 220 years, elections mattered. You only had recounts on the most narrow margins, and even at that point, it was a simple recount. No tricks.
Since Aglore in 2000, now losers of close elections try to use the legal system to win at any cost. Look at Crazy Al Franken in Minnesota and his team of lawyers. Powerline has talked about how Frankens lawyers were smarter and slicker than Emmers, hence a Franken "win".
And recalls are part of this. For 230 years, if you lost an election, you immediately started making plans for the next election. Now if you lose, you try to have a do-over election.
Even Richard Nixon knew the electoral process was more important than his own political fortunes.
You guys losts thousands of us--perhaps millions--and you still don't care.
Actually you are right. I don't care. "We" never "had you" to begin with.
Actually you are right. I don't care. "We" never "had you" to begin with.
Whereupon, avant-garage parrots the official Democrat policy: link.
Under recall public officials no longer will betray their constituency.
I think this recall is to determine who the constituency really is.
I know I'm beating a minor point but, does that mean it is legal to collect signatures and not turn them in? Didn't GAB warn this would be illegal
One added point about Kleefish deserves attention: There's been a debate about whether recall should be used only for criminal type conduct, or also applies to "political crimes" like implementing your party's agenda. Kleefish, though, has done neither because she has no power. So in her case, the "causus belli" is that they disagree with her political views. That's a rather low standard for recall!
Results.
@john smith please link to the opinion you are referring to. Do you mean if individual signature gatherers held them back? I think the key word in the statute is "fraudulently."
The Dems are coming to the realization that they are going to probably get enough signatures, and then lose the election. And they are realizing this effort had lots of unintended or unrealized consequences, like Walker and the GOP raising tons of money in a year where there is an open Senate seat and an unpopular president likely to need Wisconsin to have any chance to survive.
And anyone who thinks that Walker, once he wins, wont drop the hammer after putting up with what he has had to put up with over the past year is kidding themselves.
It's why you're hearing "Mickey Mouse!" "Hitler!" ad nauseum.
I've heard these things about Democrat-run signature initiatives since way before I ever cared about politics, Garage, in Chicago of all places. That is not unprecedented at all.
garage says....Wisconsin has the toughest recall threshold in the country. So what they are doing is actually unprecedented......
Garage is continuing an imposing string of lies.
Wisconsin is not the "toughest". There are several with the same 25 percent requirement. There are a couple of lower, but contra Garage, there are several states with tougher requirements among them Kansas with a requirement of 40 percent of the votes in the previous election and Louisiana with a 33 percent requirement.
Nice try garage. Do you just make this stuff up or does your control give you talking points? Continue the propagandizing.
There is mo such thing as an honest Democrat. They will cheat in any way possible and rely on their friends in the media to protect them from any serious investigation.
Intended to provide a link regarding recall thresholds...
http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Recall
@Unknown
In your two examples: Louisiana you have 180 days to return petitions, in Kansas you have 90 days. Wisconsin you have 60 days. I'll concede Kansas probably has the toughest recall threshold.
Perhaps instead of spending millions on fluff ads, he should start spending some money on verifying sigs? Instead he wants taxpayers to foot the bill and have GAB to do it.
Oh Garage that was rich .... you people have wasted million and millions on runaway Senators, vandalism in Madison, security in Madison, payment to subs while teachers blew off their jobs, the summer recalls, the Prosser challenge, and so on and so on and son on. But Walker forcing the GAB to do their job - that's wasteful? You are just such a pathetic joke.
.....Wisconsin you have 60 days....
But per the topic of this thread, Wisconsin Democrats are obviously running out of gas at the 45 day point. Maybe those Cajuns jess mooovveee slooooowwwwwweeeeerrrr (or they are not as hate-filled).
.....he wants taxpayers to foot the bill and have GAB to do it....
Since you are obviously the direct connection to the democratic 'playazz', if the GAB isn't really examining signatures, why do they need $ 650,000 to hire 50 people to verify signatures?
The state Government Accountability Board said it will need at least $650,000 in additional funding next year to handle recall petitions. (50 additional staff). Who on the GAB staff will pocket that money and just announce the hitler signatures are good?
http://www.channel3000.com/politics/29805580/detail.html
So why is Peter
Peter said...
Oh, they have the signatures.
It's just that half of them put down the address of a motel in Madison as their home address.
hating on the homeless in a shelter in Madison?
I think the likely explanation is that the most committed signed early and Democrats know many signatures are questionable, but they aren't sure themselves where they stand.
Legal Insurrection WI Recall'12 has a page dedicated to important, non-Presidential contests. Wisconsin qualifies. On that page there is a link to a Wisconsin organization setting up to examine the signatures. I think it would dole out pages of signatures for the volunteers to key into a spreadsheet for closer examination. Sort of like the Mad Media crowd sourced Palin's emails.
wv: nockeye
Coexist---With Scott Walker. Having just infiltrated formerly Marxist occupied Madison with the now victorious Wisconsin Underground Resistance Forces (WURFs) I think they are going to have to be whipped again to get the message. Too many "Recall Walker" yard signs along with those Coexist bumper stickers.
Dear Miss Outhouse:
What a silly circle jerk of wishful thinking. Why haven't they given you their numbers? Isn't it obvious? They want to control the news cycle and aren't willing to cede that to you. What a pointless exercise.
just remember to check to see if any of the addresses for those signatures aren't cemeteries.
It's the Chicago way!
If you want to help keep these Dems honest (I know, it's an oxymoron), visit http://www.verifytherecall.com/ and help us throw out the frauds.
While I still have a Walker yard sign, I have been reluctant to re-post it in my now-frozen tundra.
Not due to any shame on my part or Walkers, mind you; I don't want to scare away any potential signature gatherers.
I had SO much fun with the dimwit teachers that knocked on my door to get my signature to recall Grothman (FAIL!). I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity again.
WV: uncenoh
(Or, if the fools do knock on my door, twice no!)
There are still a few graveyards and prisons they need to hit up before they turn in their recall peitions.
Re: not turning in signatures as a whole recall effort. This is obviously NOT illegal because there were lots of attempts at recalling senators last year that did not collect enough signatures and simply missed the deadline. Re: not turning or destroying individual recall sheets, I suspect this refers to getting them signed and then purposefully not turning them in to the organizers of the recall effort.
"Re: not turning in signatures as a whole recall effort. This is obviously NOT illegal . . . "
So if I, a committed conservative, go running headfirst into a telephone pole enough times so that I'm acting sufficiently goofy to be mistaken for a Democrat, and then start canvassing some Wisconsin neighborhood that hasn't yet been covered by the Democrat canvassers, and I manage to collect several thousand signatures on their petition, and then I throw those petitions away, I've committed no crime?
Just working intuitively, I'm thinking there has to be some criminal statute applicable to such an act, but I'm having a hard time figuring how they would phrase it such that it differentiates from the examples given earlier, of Democrats not turning petitions in when it becomes obvious that they're going to lose.
Proving I never intended to turn them in at the start seems . . . difficult.
What's struck me most about the Walker recall is that it at bottom is not about Walker at all. It's an attempt to quash the vote the anti-democratic population of Wisconsin--not all Republicans by any means--cast in 2010. Walker was the choice of a majority of the electorate casting ballots, and it is this majority that the anti-Walker recall effort is aimed at disenfranchising. In short, the "recall" is in fact a form of civil war waged by other means. I voted for Walker and as far as I am concerned the people working the recall are my political enemies, because they are in effect seeking to nullify my vote. Let us not forget in this context U.S. vs. Enrons, the SCOTUS 1973 decision that made union violence legal. We've not seen the end of this business no matter how the Walker recall turns out, because this is union-members' warfare against the citizens whose taxes pay them. In short, we've just begun to fight.
" . . . the anti-democratic population of Wisconsin . . . "
For clarity's sake, and to maybe keep from getting some of us PO'ed during our first reading of a post, I'd like to suggest that you should instead type "the anti-Democrat population of Wisconsin".
"Anti-democratic" reads as "against democracy." This is why the Democrat party ridicules us when we call them the "Democrat Party" instead of their chosen "Democratic Party."
They'd like to keep the linkage of their party to democracy, even though they truly are the "anti-democratic" group.
One question: you said "U.S. vs. Enrons, the SCOTUS 1973 decision that made union violence legal." What case are you talking about? Skilling? The DOL case against Enron?
John Hindraker:
If Walker, having carried out the promises on which he campaigned, can be evicted from office by the overwhelming force of left-wing money, reformers everywhere would be given pause.
Uh, Walker never said he intended to strip public employees of collective bargaining rights. He never said he intended to do a lot of what he did.
Not that facts and truth matter when talking to a modern American conservative.
The Governor said he was going to do what needed to be done. Public employees do not need to belong to unions. In Beloit the previous year the teachers union campaigned long and hard to get favorable school board members. When there was a window of opportunity, that board quickly renegotiated the teachers contract, preserving the union for as long as possible. Public sector unions like that one get to appoint their bosses. The School District of Beloit has long received around 75% of their budget from State aid. So all these suckers in Wisconsin have been paying taxes which have propped up a bloated and ineffective school district. Scores are miserable. Yet many of the teachers have Masters in "Professional Development" and take home a decent salary, with benefits. This same school district, which gets most of its operating funds from people outside the district, prides itself on keeping the tax levy low. Why not? Somebody else is paying the freight.
One school district, which had been forced to deal with WEAC Trust Insurance, all of a sudden got a bid from them that was much lower, and matched bids from other insurance companies. I would hope they would have gone with another firm. Obviously WEAC Trust could have offered lower rates years ago, because they were the negotiated insurance provider. They didn't because they were gauging that district because they could. Thieves.
Barack Hussein 0bama did promise that energy rates would go up. But how much of his agenda is crap that he never told the American public about? Spare us the sanctimony.
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