Althouse: What the Recall Walker effort is up against.

January 3, 2012

What the Recall Walker effort is up against.

Here's Scott Walker's newest ad, which I'm not embedding because it's so good.

238 comments:

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MayBee said...: 'cause by making it illegal for workers to have safety issues and workplace conditions in contracts with a city/county/state, Gov. Walker and the WI-GOP has made it more likely that I or one of my co-workers will be hurt and/or killed while on the job.

Why would life or death safety issues be relegated to a bargaining chip in a contract? Shouldn't they be legislated and safely enshrined in law?; 1/3/12, 2:02 PM
Anonymous said...: That is kinda like saying "The cops are enough, we don't need concealed carry for citizens.

Ah. Yes. Right you are. OSHA, and your own damned common sense and interest in self-preservation then. That should do it.; 1/3/12, 2:04 PM
Brian Brown said...: purplepenquin said...

"Was banning collective bargaining really the only way he could save $$$?

Collective bargaining wasn't banned.; 1/3/12, 2:05 PM
Alex said...: Let's not pretend that purple is upset that Walker is stealing his workplace safety. Purple is a commie-lib all his life and doesn't need any excuse for vote for the Dhimmicrats and against Republicans.; 1/3/12, 2:06 PM
Scott M said...: That is kinda like saying "The cops are enough, we don't need concealed carry for citizens."

No, it would be like saying "cops are not enough. We need a security force, paid for by the company, in every single business, full time".

I fail to see how concealed carry for individual citizens in that analogy is apt.; 1/3/12, 2:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Shouldn't they be legislated and safely enshrined in law?

They are, and he knows they are. What he wants is to be contractually absolved of any responsibility for his own safety, apparently. Which attitude explains so much of the liberal project, when yuo think about it.; 1/3/12, 2:07 PM
MayBee said...: That is kinda like saying "The cops are enough, we don't need concealed carry for citizens."

Concealed carry is controlled by laws, not by contract negotiations.; 1/3/12, 2:07 PM
Anonymous said...: I fail to see how concealed carry for individual citizens in that analogy is apt.

Yeah, the anti-Walker side is having real problems with pertinent analogies today. It's almost like they know what they are, but not how they actually work.; 1/3/12, 2:09 PM
Alex said...: What I believe purple wants in his contract is the ability to commit some safety violation and get away with it. Typical union thug mentality, he'd fit right in Tony Soprano's "waste management" business.; 1/3/12, 2:10 PM
MayBee said...: Why should a union be able to say "We'll give up the demand for X safety requirement for $1.50/hr raise" if having X safety requirement is a life or death situation?; 1/3/12, 2:12 PM
purplepenquin said...: Shouldn't they be legislated and safely enshrined in law?

Should be, could be, but ain't.

And yes, I totally understand how absurd that may sound to someone who has only worked in an office (NTTAWWT, of course!) but the truth is that one of the main reasons my local union first organized was in order to address safety concerns and workplace conditions because the law is very lacking when it comes to our field or work.

One simple example: There is no law at all which dictates breaks or the amount of time between work shifts. And yes, I know that the ProWalker crowd loves to mock those of us who say fatigue is an issue to be concerned about...but for those of us who do dangerous stuff, often times with high-voltage equipment, it is a very real and actual problem.

Another example is the rigging/climping rules. OSHA's regulations are somewhat lacking in that department, and therefore we want certain rules/requirements to be part of a contract...but the WI-GOP says those additional concerns can only be suggestions, rather than contractually enforced.; 1/3/12, 2:13 PM
Seeing Red said...: The Monona Grove School District spends $11,368 per pupil in current expenditures. The district spends 55% on instruction, 41% on support services, and 4% on other elementary and secondary expenditures.

District Student-Teacher Ratio
The Monona Grove School District has 13 students for every full-time equivalent teacher, with the WI state average being 15 students per full-time equivalent teacher.

For the sake of fairness, GM, shouldn't your district have 15 students per instructor and spend closer to the state average of $9500?

So the 1 year extension was signed 3/11 which saved then $1mil by in WEAC & health bennies because the teachers now pay 50% and your district is still $2m in the red?

Did your HS have a grass football field and put in astroturf instead?It's relevant, believe it or not.; 1/3/12, 2:20 PM
Chip S. said...: Why have safety regulations/rules at all, if rules/regulations don't have any effect in regards to safety?

That's the best question I've ever seen you pose.

Here's a good, accessible survey of the scholarly literature on that issue, as of a decade or so ago.

What you'll learn by reading it is that job safety is something that profit-seeking businesses will provide on their own for the simple reason that it's a way of reducing the wages necessary to attract and retain workers.

That's why people keep asking you to demonstrate with even a single example that your employer has actually made your working conditions less safe.; 1/3/12, 2:21 PM
purplepenquin said...: Purple is a commie-lib all his life and doesn't need any excuse for vote for the Dhimmicrats and against Republicans.

What he wants is to be contractually absolved of any responsibility for his own safety, apparently.

Typical union thug mentality

*sigh*

I can't help but wonder if our hostess finds these type of ad hominem comments to be ugly or not.

Seriously, I'm trying to sincerely share my point of view with ya'll...as polite and respectful as possible. And in return, all I get is name-calling, generalizations, and personal attacks.

Hopefully ya'll can someday let go of your blind hatred, and instead learn to listen to what is actually being said...; 1/3/12, 2:22 PM
Scott M said...: Did your HS have a grass football field and put in astroturf instead?It's relevant, believe it or not.

For that matter, so are stadium lights. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing on Saturday afternoons.; 1/3/12, 2:23 PM
Scott M said...: And in return, all I get is name-calling, generalizations, and personal attacks.

This is false. I'm not saying those things don't occur, but it's not "all" by any means.; 1/3/12, 2:24 PM
Seeing Red said...: I brought up the fields because we have 4 and all were changed over to astroturf because I was told the feds required it - it costs us almost $4 million! Our school district has money. No more grass. That's a huge budget hit for US high schools.; 1/3/12, 2:31 PM
Seeing Red said...: Another huge expense is legal fees. We're getting sued because something somewhat innocuous happened and the girl cried rape. The parents are attorneys and the older child goes around threatening to sue everyone.; 1/3/12, 2:34 PM
purplepenquin said...: Here's a good, accessible survey of the scholarly literature on that issue, as of a decade or so ago.

The study shows that merely giving a "wage premium" for unsafe working conditions doesn't always result in a safer work place, which I agree with.

I also agree with the author that "inadequate bargaining power" can result in a less safe work environment.

Thanks for sharing...it helps prove my point.; 1/3/12, 2:35 PM
Curious George said...: "Dose of Sanity said...
The starve the beast strategy, at least on the federal level, has long resulted in no decrease in spending while increasing debt. Logically, it makes sense, but in practice it has almost never worked."

Apples and oranges. The Feds can print money to make up shortfalls in revenues to pay for their spending. As we have seen in record numbers over the last few years.

The states can't do this. The have to pay with things with real dollars. They can borrow...for a while.; 1/3/12, 2:43 PM
Dose of Sanity said...: Another huge expense is legal fees. We're getting sued because something somewhat innocuous happened and the girl cried rape. The parents are attorneys and the older child goes around threatening to sue everyone.

Schools have a pretty solid statutory immunity, and I believe it's almost total immunity in the cases of abuse. There was a free speech case that's on the tip of my tongue I can't quite remember that addressed that.; 1/3/12, 2:44 PM
Scott M said...: Thanks for sharing...it helps prove my point.

Does Chip's offering fall under name-calling, generalizations, or personal attacks, PP?; 1/3/12, 2:45 PM
Dose of Sanity said...: Apples and oranges. The Feds can print money to make up shortfalls in revenues to pay for their spending. As we have seen in record numbers over the last few years.

The states can't do this. The have to pay with things with real dollars. They can borrow...for a while.

True it is different, but the fed isn't in the habit of printing money for the debt. Hello inflation. Instead they borrow too.; 1/3/12, 2:45 PM
Dose of Sanity said...: @ Scott

Don't be snarky to PP. :-p; 1/3/12, 2:46 PM
Scott M said...: Don't be snarky to PP. :-p

I gotta be me.; 1/3/12, 2:46 PM
Chip S. said...: @purp: All you've shown is that you can't read quickly with comprehension.

Higher compensation for injuries tends to increase injuries beyond where they'd be otherwise, b/c the workers themselves take less care.

And thanks for agreeing with the fundamental point: safety concerns are simply another feature of overall compensation. Which is what you're fundamentally bitching about.

Let's go back to one of your classic whines:

There is no law at all which dictates breaks or the amount of time between work shifts.

Tell us, by how much has your break time been reduced?

How much break time is optimal? After all, the more rested you are the better, right? So why not a two-hour break? Obviously too long? Well, how about 15 minutes? Obviously too short? OK, what's the method by which a disinterested person could figure out the optimal break time? What empirical evidence have you got on this question that's the sole basis for your support of a recall election?

If you consistently simplify a subtle issue, and present no evidence beyond personal anecdotes to support your simplification, don't be surprised when you get called out on it.

And stop lying about the specifics of the collective-bargaining law. You've assured us that you're not a public employee, but rather an employee of a private firm that does contract work for the government. Therefore, you still have full collective-bargaining rights with your employer. Your employer, in turn, is free to negotiate working conditions in any bid it submits to the government.; 1/3/12, 2:47 PM
Curious George said...: purplepenquin said...
You've been invited time and again to specify a single instance in which the safety conditions you work under have worsened since the Walker budget plan was enacted

Oh. I'm sorry, but I thought it was well-known that safety issues and workplace conditions can no longer be part of a contract with a city/county/state.

What leads you to beleive that making these safety issues to be only suggestions rather than contractually enforced won't result in a less safe work environment?

Why have safety regulations/rules at all, if rules/regulations don't have any effect in regards to safety?

1/3/12 1:54 PM
purplepenquin said...
Looking back at that video, it seems that they aren't allowing any more comments over there....

...which is too bad, 'cause this is what I wanted to say:

"Was banning collective bargaining really the only way he could save $$$? 'cause by making it illegal for workers to have safety issues and workplace conditions in contracts with a city/county/state, Gov. Walker and the WI-GOP has made it more likely that I or one of my co-workers will be hurt and/or killed while on the job.

That is why I support a recall election against the Gov. It truly is a matter of life or death for some of us."

Oh, bullshit. First, in regard to actual public union workers, of which you are not, the GOP out in a grievance/review provision to the Walker bill to address public safety concerns.

As for you, or others like you...if you don't like the work conditions that are in place...don't do them. I mean it's a matter of life and death. How many jobs have you turned down?; 1/3/12, 2:58 PM
MayBee said...: And yes, I totally understand how absurd that may sound to someone who has only worked in an office (NTTAWWT, of course!

I've spent lots of time working in factories. I've also worked in schools, health clubs, and in sports programs.

Obamacare legislated special break rooms be built for nursing mothers, for heaven's sake. I don't believe life or death issues can't get the legislative attention they need.

Why should a union be able to bargain away something that is vital to protect your life?; 1/3/12, 3:30 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: @ DBQ - what programs? Most of those programs can export/import in excel.

@ Dose. Peachtree Complete to QuickBooks Pro 2012. The conversion program from QB isn't working. I want to not just export but also convert into the new system.

I need to convert all customer transactions from previous years as wells as customer and vendor data. I don't want to lose the invoicing history and the product data.

If anyone has a hint..I'm all ears...or actually eyeballs; 1/3/12, 3:53 PM
Scott M said...: If anyone has a hint..I'm all ears...or actually eyeballs

In my experience, both Peachtree and Quickbooks have at-cost customer support for things like this. The trick is knowing the key phrases that will get you escalated past the first level or two of script-reading idiots. Then it becomes worth it for a show-stopping problem like what you're describing.; 1/3/12, 3:57 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: In my experience, both Peachtree and Quickbooks have at-cost customer support for things like this.

Yea. I may have to break down and shell out some cash. I'm so cheap ;-P

In the meantime, I'm just entering the info into the new program as if they are new customers and running both programs concurrently to be able to access the old data (serial numbers, customer history etc) What a PITA.; 1/3/12, 4:00 PM
Calypso Facto said...: I signed because Walker didn't even have the sense to leave craft beer alone.

Even though I know you're bullshitting, and you know better because we discussed it before, I can't let that stand. The craft beer legislation came out the bi-partisan Joint Finance Committee with only Grothman (R) and Jouch (D) opposed.

Once before the Governor, "a bipartisan group of legislators led by Senators Glenn Grothman (R-West Bend) and Pam Galloway (R-Wausau) asked Governor Walker to veto [the] controversial provision"

So bi-partisan support and opposition. You've got plenty of Dems to blame too...are you out urging their recall?; 1/3/12, 5:21 PM
purplepenquin said...: Let's go back to one of your classic whines

*sigh*

Are you also gonna accuse me of "whining" when I respectfully ask that you keep the convo on a mature level?

For real...are you even aware of your boorish behavior or is it something you just do as a reflex without any thought to how you're coming across?

You've assured us that you're not a public employee, but rather an employee of a private firm that does contract work for the government.

You must have me confused with someone else, 'cause I've done no such thing. I am both a public and private employee.

And yes, I understand the difference between working for the city/state and working for a vendor that works for the city/state...'cause I do both of those. Never at the same time, but sometimes on the same day and at the same place.

While I understand that sounds unusual to most folks, it ain't untrue. Lots of stuff about my trade is kinda unusual, hence the need for specific safety issues and workplace conditions...; 1/3/12, 5:25 PM
Brian Brown said...: purplepenquin said...

While I understand that sounds unusual to most folks, it ain't untrue. Lots of stuff about my trade is kinda unusual, hence the need for specific safety issues and workplace conditions..

Remember, while you collect those state paychecks, that your vote in the Walker recall is based entirely on your altruism and the side of what is right!; 1/3/12, 5:44 PM
Brian Brown said...: purplepenquin said...

That is why I support a recall election against the Gov. It truly is a matter of life or death for some of us.

Hilarious.

Yet you keep collecting state paychecks despite this life and death situation.

What a mystery that is!; 1/3/12, 5:45 PM
MayBee said...: While I understand that sounds unusual to most folks, it ain't untrue. Lots of stuff about my trade is kinda unusual, hence the need for specific safety issues and workplace conditions...

So you work for the state, and you believe it is the state itself that wants you to work in life-threatening conditions.
Please tell me you don't want single-payer health care, then. That you don't support a "public option".; 1/3/12, 6:43 PM
Joe Schmoe said...: @DBQ, I'm don't know tax software. But I do know about software compatibility issues. First I always google what I'm trying to do (convert peachtree complete to quickbooks 2012, in your case), and the best actionable info I get is from discussion boards with people talking about doing what I'm trying to do. Although be careful of people posing as users who actually work for the software companies.

Software companies focus on their own software and less on how well it plays with others. Also they are preternaturally disposed to rarely if ever saying anything negative about their software, such as what it can't do. They feel that's arming their competitors, but in my experience it mostly pisses off customers cuz they have to find this stuff out on their own. They also way overmarket/oversell their software. I bet Quickbooks really plays up how easy their conversion tool is, whereas the discussion boards will probably reveal that it either doesn't work or is a PITA.

In your case you've got a lot of data, classified a certain way in Peachtree, and it needs to be mapped to Quickbooks' own classes. I bet this exceeds QB conversion tools as people set their files up differently, and you will need outside help. Whether you want to get it from QB HQ or a 3rd party will be up to you. That's where the googling can help.; 1/3/12, 7:58 PM
Scott M said...: You've got plenty of Dems to blame too...are you out urging their recall?

You cannot recall Democrat politicians in Wisconsin. They tend to flee the state.; 1/4/12, 7:12 AM