Althouse: If you can't see the problem with asking a woman in an elevator at 4 a.m. if she'd like to come to your hotel room for coffee...

July 24, 2011

If you can't see the problem with asking a woman in an elevator at 4 a.m. if she'd like to come to your hotel room for coffee...

... then you probably can't get laid, says Rebecca Watson, who has some advice for you anyway, advice that includes sex dolls, or — for the poor — fleshlights and watermelons:

Note that Watson posted that video the day after recording the Bloggingheads with me, in which I prodded her a few times about how a man might go about successfully launching a sexual interlude with a female at an atheist convention. Here's my first effort:

And: "So these are socially awkward men. What about their problems?"

111 comments:

chickelit said...: She looks garish.; 7/24/11, 10:08 AM
Lyle said...: I wonder if a non-socially awkward guy has ever "hit on" Rebecca Watson in person.; 7/24/11, 10:11 AM
Lucius said...: O-ho-ho. I caught this new video of hers earlier before it came here, and I was very amused.

It's quite a little put-down: faux-naive at first, sardonic, ultimately caustic. Note how carefully she holds back before that final, understatedly perfect "fuck it."

Rebecca clearly has sound dramatic instincts. Like a soberer Charlie Sheen, she evidently knows how to exploit this 'art form' of the youtube video message.

Personal confession: Rebecca's manner and voice here is remarkably similar to that of my Ex.

No disrespect to either woman, but this does bring to mind Camille Paglia on the impenetrability of women.

Even as I admire the collected, calm method of this, and agree with the substance of her put-downs, I also think: women can be so goddamn, castratingly cold.

When somebody talks to you like this beside you on the bed, you really do want to strangle them.; 7/24/11, 10:12 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "you really do want to strangle them"

Justice Prosser? Is that you?; 7/24/11, 10:14 AM
bagoh20 said...: I'm not sure what is more pathetic: that such women don't want to be the object of a man's attraction, or that they do, but feel the need to lie about it. It's the modern version of coyness without the charm. I can't imagine how anyone, male or female, could have a loving and fun relationship with such a person. They wear a huge danger sign that will stop a man from caring about them, but not sexing them anyway. It's a bad strategy ladies.; 7/24/11, 10:19 AM
Darleen said...: She talks about "normal people" get it, uses the word "cornered" and "creepy" ...

1) I don't Rebecca should using the word "normal" so casually

2) I find her assumptions about the whole episode "creepy"

3) The matter would be moot of the guy in the elevator was a rich celeb ... then the gal was was outraged would have taken to the internet to brag on bagging him.

Pfffft.; 7/24/11, 10:19 AM
Darleen said...: yikes... typos errors galore. "if the guy" and "then the gal who was outraged"

I please caffeine deficiency.; 7/24/11, 10:21 AM
Shouting Thomas said...: Rebecca needs a spanking.

After that she should be sent to her room.

What a revolting little brat.

Who pays this brat's bills? She can't be doing it herself.; 7/24/11, 10:24 AM
David said...: She should color her teeth red to go with the hair.

That would be a look/; 7/24/11, 10:27 AM
Andrea said...: Good lord. Hot pink dyed hair is so 2006.; 7/24/11, 10:30 AM
mishu said...: I think she fears that if she gives a list of actions that would work for her, then awkward guys would approach her and attempt them in the predicable awkward fashion. And then comedy ensues.; 7/24/11, 10:30 AM
Joshua R. Poulson said...: So she still doesn't understand the fundamental principle of "She'll never say 'yes' unless you ask the question." Most of male life from 13 onward is developing the cajones to ask knowing that most of the time one will get turned down. Most of female life from 13 onward is learning to garner--and deal with--male attention.; 7/24/11, 10:31 AM
Robert said...: If you can't see the problem with finding that kind of dye job in a woman's hair attractive enough to ask her out, you don't deserve to get laid.

Woof.; 7/24/11, 10:32 AM
Skyler said...: The general rule is the same as always. If the girl is receptive it doesn't matter much how or where she is asked, she will say yes. If she is not receptive, then she will always say no. Manner and place have little to do with anything.

She didn't like the guy and so she's offended. If she liked the guy, she wouldn't be offended.; 7/24/11, 10:32 AM
MadisonMan said...: I daresay that sometimes the woman who you ask at 4 AM in the elevator to come to your hotel room will say Yes.

(Not that I have first-hand knowledge or anything); 7/24/11, 10:33 AM
ricpic said...: At least the use of a sex doll sidesteps Rebecca's personality.; 7/24/11, 10:34 AM
Steve M. Galbraith said...: Ms. Watson needs to develop "the look."

That's the facial response men get when their attempts at flirtation get rejected. All men know it.

It's a combination of "You must be kidding!!" and "You're a disgusting pig." Works every time.

The face that sank a thousand ships, so to speak.

Work on it Ms. Watson.; 7/24/11, 10:35 AM
chickelit said...: Wow! All this controversy because of Richad Dawkin's offhand remark.

Has she gotten his attention yet? Has she successfully baited him? Has she made people feel less for him? Has she advanced her cause? Has she done anything but divert the whole story to herself?

Color me skeptical.

___________
wv = dialized. v. A revenge term coined by Luddites to counter "digitized."; 7/24/11, 10:36 AM
lonetown said...: I'm thinking something like: "after seeing you there MUST be a god!"; 7/24/11, 10:36 AM
Lucius said...: You can tell she had fun concocting this; and of course her friends will all be impressed.

And I'm content to side with her on the elevator thing. In the context provided in the diavlog, the guy's offensiveness is much more demonstrable. Probably for him it was a power trip more than an opportunistic invite.

But she's not moving with the Voltaires and David Humes of the world. These 'atheists conventions' of hers are evidently more like Comic Con: a repository of the socially inept.

And she herself splashes her sweet head with Manic Panic. She's a girl geek, and this is utting her in a social conundrum that isn't all the fault of male chauvinism.

To some guys, her froggy put-downs are going to work like catnip. She should be a bit careful with that.

--Prosser '21; 7/24/11, 10:37 AM
Gabriel Hanna said...: When Richard Dawkins was insufficiently outraged about Watson's elevator trauma, she tried to anathematize him from the skeptic movement as insufficiently feminist.

Meanwhile, he is now paying for child care so that more women can attend the conventions.

As Abbie Smith put it at ERV:

"You all keep throwing your bordello parties and pajama parties and getting drunk all the time and acting like overall jackasses in the name of 'supporting women in skepticism'. Im going to actually support everyone, including women, by providing childcare at future TAMs. *flipseveryoneoff*"; 7/24/11, 10:38 AM
Shouting Thomas said...: Yesterday, yet another man stopped me in Woodstock to talk about finding a Filipino wife.

This is my late wife's legacy in Woodstock.

The story is always the same. Lousy, worthless white woman like this Rebecca aren't worth the trouble.

The men know what they're getting into with the Rebecca trash and they don't want it. The men want marriage and family and children. They know what they'll get with a piece of crap like Rebecca. Divorce and the loss of their children to whoever Rebecca is fucking at the moment.

I don't know that to say to the men because they're going the mail order bride route. That was not my wife, who was a U.S. citizen with a hell of a good job.

But, I can see what the men are looking for, and they're right to stay the hell away from this kind of trash.

They're probably do better with a mail order bride. They've got a better chance at finding some happiness there than they do with a completely worthless piece of crap like Rebecca.; 7/24/11, 10:39 AM
rcocean said...: Sex Doll - Yes

Rebecca Watson - no; 7/24/11, 10:40 AM
edutcher said...: It's interesting to watch her eyes glaze over after Ann begins to talk about why people crave that personal, tactile outreach, up to and including sex.

Where would Meadhouse be if Meade had not asked, "They're showing 'My Dinner With Andre' at the Rialto down here in Cinncinati. Would you like to drive down and see it with me?".

It might not have been the same as asking her to stop in for a cuppa Joe at 4 in the AM, but no guts, no glory.

Shouting Thomas said...

Rebecca needs a spanking.

Yes, but what do you do if she likes it?

PS Good one, rc.; 7/24/11, 10:47 AM
Anonymous said...: What a piece of work this one is. She is manipulative, passive aggressive, immature and unable to give a straightforward presentation.

I have concluded that she is making a big deal of this just so she can tell the world she got hit on. Everything else is just clutter.; 7/24/11, 10:56 AM
rhhardin said...: Doubling down is not always good advice when you're not in the mood to take advice.; 7/24/11, 10:57 AM
Fen said...: Rebecca: If you can't see the problem with asking a woman in an elevator at 4 a.m. if she'd like to come to your hotel room for coffee... then you probably can't get laid,

Yah, we get that. Its creepy.

But (just like Valenti did over the "lets take a closer look at those breasts" episode) you're covering something even creepier: the unfair assumption by you and your supporters that he is a rapist-in-training.

Rebecca steps into an elevator and makes an awkward compliment to a little girl with a bow in her hair. Is it fair to publicly accuse her of being a potential pedophile?

You're young, you're self-interested. Fine. But try to be less selfish. Think about someone else, and what you are doing to their life, before you play this game again.

Oh, and the rumour that you've used these conventions to hook up in the past? Better be false.; 7/24/11, 11:06 AM
Sam vfm #111 said...: There is a story that Playboy did an experiment years ago. They had an average guy stand on a street corner in a big city and ask every woman that appealed to him if she would have sex with him. Now, he got a got of fuck-you looks and got slapped a couple of times, but he never stood on that corner more than 30 minutes.; 7/24/11, 11:09 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: If you can't see the problem with asking a woman in an elevator at 4 a.m. if she'd like to come to your hotel room for coffee, then you probably can't get laid.

Maybe not by a chick who looks like The Critic in drag, but by girls who look good? YEAH!

Seriously, it seems to me somebody's got this whole dating/sex thing all wrong. I've been laid on a fucking bus, so, if you ask me, there ain't no place you can't ask a girl to get laid.

But anyway, oooh, Honey, now Watson's going for digging the hole deeper? And she's supposed to be smart? What part of "she's a NewAger" didn't anybody understand?

I said, What part of "she's a NewAger" didn't anybody understand?; 7/24/11, 11:15 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Lucious,

Women can be so goddamn, castratingly cold.

The word is inhuman. It's the one I use anyway.

Then it's easier to strangle them.; 7/24/11, 11:18 AM
Fen said...: "I believe in evolution, because I'm an athiest.

Except for the domination of women by men for 4.4 million years. I don't agree with that part."

*snicker*; 7/24/11, 11:19 AM
Skyler said...: Sam Hall, I had a friend who would do just that. He would walk into a bar and ask for oral sex from every woman there. He got slapped a few times, but he was usually quite happy with his results.; 7/24/11, 11:23 AM
Andrea said...: On the other hand, I wonder what the reaction would be if Ms. Watson were a hot babe, instead of a plain geeky girl. I'm guessing the reaction would still be "what a bitch," but it would be a more respectful kind of anger. Men resent it when beautiful women reject them, but they also expect it, so the resentment is tempered by that. On the other hand, I've noticed that if a plain woman reject's a guy's advances, there's an attitude of "Who does that ugly bitch think she is? Doesn't she know how lucky she is that I even paid attention to her?" It's assumed that a plain woman should be grateful for any male attention, and if she isn't she's acting "above her station," so to speak.

Note: this is not to say that the guy who talked to her didn't actually think she was pretty. But it's obvious that some of you guys think she isn't. I'll also repeat (I've said it elsewhere) that I think she overreacted, and has basically used this poor guy to burnish her own "feminist" credentials, in a rather naive fashion. (Like many 20-somethings, she hasn't quite grasped that the whole universe doesn't revolve around her and her feelings.); 7/24/11, 11:24 AM
Penny said...: Watson is advancing her cause.

Her cause isn't skepticism, or even sexism. Her cause is advancing Rebecca Watson.; 7/24/11, 11:25 AM
James Graham said...: This elevator event occurred in Dublin Ireland at an international conference.

Does anyone know the nationality of the male?

In some cultures males are almost expected to proposition young women they encounter and in those cultures such propositions are not considered insults by the women.; 7/24/11, 11:27 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Andrea,

I hear you but, I swear, in my case that's not it:

I nailed her as bizarre a long time before this - I can spot it anywhere. It's kind of like, once you know certain things, all you have to do is wait for this person to pop up on the radar - because they will pop up.

Rebecca Watson was bound to do this - she's a NewAger - and, like all NewAgers, she's also doomed to take a fall.

If you don't consider her choice of attire/hair color, etc., already doing so,...; 7/24/11, 11:30 AM
Chip Ahoy said...: Well, against my better judgement I watched the videos and now I'm glad that I did. I find Rebecca Watson to be perfectly 100% reasonable, and all criticisms leveled against her by you big meanies in these comments are all unjust and unreasonable.

Hi Rebecca! *waves* You have a nice bookshelf back there. I wish I could see the titles. You'd probably laugh at my bookshelf because they're mostly pop-up books, but I could show you some really good ones. The rest is geeky stuff. Would you like to see 'em? It's like a pop-up book museum.; 7/24/11, 11:31 AM
William said...: If I were looking for sex at 4am, I would hit on the faux gingers first. Any woman with that color hair is bound to have some liberal views about sex. I wonder how she'd feel about a threesome with a sex doll.; 7/24/11, 11:32 AM
edutcher said...: Sam Hall said...

There is a story that Playboy did an experiment years ago. They had an average guy stand on a street corner in a big city and ask every woman that appealed to him if she would have sex with him. Now, he got a got of fuck-you looks and got slapped a couple of times, but he never stood on that corner more than 30 minutes.

Sounds like Hugh Hefner's life before the mag started making money.; 7/24/11, 11:38 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "the unfair assumption by you and your supporters that he is a rapist-in-training"

Speaking of unfair assumptions, that is totally unsupported by the evidence. You can't pin that on Watson, let alone on me. That's just wrong, and you should step back and apologize right now.

If you think you are right, put up the evidence. I know you can't with respect to me, but I am giving you that option. Do the hard work of looking first, and then apologize. Or just apologize right now.; 7/24/11, 11:52 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "There is a story that Playboy did an experiment years ago. They had an average guy stand on a street corner in a big city and ask every woman that appealed to him if she would have sex with him. Now, he got a got of fuck-you looks and got slapped a couple of times, but he never stood on that corner more than 30 minutes."

I remember reading in one of Henry Miller's books about his technique of rubbing up against women in the subway. Most women objected, but he was always able to find one who didn't.; 7/24/11, 11:55 AM
Ann Althouse said...: I'm not recommending that. It's a crime.; 7/24/11, 11:56 AM
bagoh20 said...: "Any woman with that color hair is bound to have some liberal views about sex."

I've studied this for decades, and have come to the conclusion that outward appearances are very weak at indicating wildness in the bedroom. That's the best part of it - the surprise wild one.

Getting to the bottom of it is a selfless quest, and my research must continue.; 7/24/11, 12:01 PM
Andrea said...: Crack:

Hi! I actually started writing my comment before you wrote yours, and then I went and did something for five minutes or so, and when I came back to my computer I realized I hadn't published the comment, so I pressed the "publish" button. Then I saw that you'd already said something similar. But don't worry -- I didn't take your comment about "girls who look good" in the same vein. I don't think you'd make a "pity pass" at someone like Rebecca Watson. ("The Critic in drag." Oh dear. Heh. Now that you mention it... I can see her saying, "It stinks!")

wv: "floging" -- really.; 7/24/11, 12:05 PM
Titus said...: This post was an open invitation to go off on that chicks looks and I find it very offensive and sexist.

Mission accomplished.

Disgusting, I tell ya.

Desperate Tits on an Elevator at 4:00 a.m.; 7/24/11, 12:08 PM
bagoh20 said...: "I'm not recommending that. It's a crime."

That would be a tough prosecution - proving that rubbing against someone in the subway was intentional.

I was recently walking through a restaurant packed with young college age women who seemed determined to put their hands on me. I was intentionally touched half a dozen times on the way out.

Yes, it was very "creepy". I'm appalled and quite angry over it. Damned hot young women touching me. Who do they think they are, and who do they think I am? To hell in a hand basket, I tell ya.; 7/24/11, 12:10 PM
bagoh20 said...: "To hell in a hand basket"

Who the hell came up with that?

"Its first use recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary is in an historical work of 1865 by I. Windslow Ayer, alleging that Judge Morris of the Circuit Court of Illinois at an August meeting of Order of the Sons of Liberty said: "Thousands of our best men were prisoners in Camp Douglas, and if once at liberty would ‘send abolitionists to hell in a hand basket.'"" wikipedia; 7/24/11, 12:15 PM
bagoh20 said...: Her looks are unremarkable, but her attitude and assumptions are ugly.; 7/24/11, 12:17 PM
ricpic said...: bagoh - When those hussies put their hands all over you and your cock don't rise...you've won!* Titus told me to tell you that.

*Purely hypothetical, of course.; 7/24/11, 12:19 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: If you're interested in someone enough, you may hang out with him and have coffee at 4AM even if you are tired.

This guy was hoping that she would be that interested. She wasn't. And she wants all of us to know it!; 7/24/11, 12:27 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: All else being equal, the very assertive man will win over the very passive man every time.; 7/24/11, 12:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Lady, you can be the worldly-wise dispenser of dating advice, or you can get the vapors because someone propositioned you in an elevator. Not both.; 7/24/11, 12:36 PM
Trooper York said...: You sometimes really late at night....right around closing time...if you are wearing your beer goggles....someone like this twat would seem attractive....or at least bag worthy....but I really doubt it.

She is a journalist right.

She is making this shit up.; 7/24/11, 12:37 PM
Joe said...: She has an obvious confusion over who is or isn't getting laid.; 7/24/11, 12:39 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Andrea,

Don't worry -- I didn't take your comment about "girls who look good" in the same vein. I don't think you'd make a "pity pass" at someone like Rebecca Watson. ("The Critic in drag." Oh dear. Heh. Now that you mention it... I can see her saying, "It stinks!")

LOL!

Rebecca should love this:

I was just away for a few days and, before I got home, a co-worker and I hit the bars. He got pretty smashed and, as we're driving home, he gets a phone call from this woman. I can't hear what's being said on the other end (of course) but I hear him say, "Yeah, I'm drunk, and when I get home I want a blowjob, something to eat, and another drink!" The nerve, right?

Shit, we arrived almost an hour late and there she was, waiting patiently.

Who in the fuck needs Rebecca Watson?; 7/24/11, 12:41 PM
Trooper York said...: Well she is typical of the hipster dofus chicks you catch these days. They think tats and orange hair and not washing are attractive and stuff.

She must be a talented fiction writer because to imagine someone hitting on her is quite a feat of imagination.; 7/24/11, 12:50 PM
Synova said...: I think that when we were talking about this there was more or less agreement that the fellow's effort was doomed to fail for a number of reasons. That trying to pick up a woman in an elevator was pretty stupid.

What we didn't agree (generally) was that it was the equivalent of assault.; 7/24/11, 1:09 PM
Trooper York said...: In fact with the exception of the blogger lady and that chick that looks like Joey Heatherton I don't think anyone who has ever appeared on blogging heads has been hit on.; 7/24/11, 1:18 PM
Trooper York said...: Jane Hamster is her name I think.

She looks like a dirty little thing.

Just sayn'; 7/24/11, 1:19 PM
Skyler said...: Synova concluded, ". . . there was more or less agreement that the fellow's effort was doomed to fail for a number of reasons. That trying to pick up a woman in an elevator was pretty stupid."

No, we don't. There is nothing sacrosanct about an elevator. If the woman was interested, it would have worked. She wasn't interested, so it didn't work. That's the whole story.

Being afraid of being assaulted is not the same as being assaulted. She needs to grow up and learn the difference between her imagination and reality.; 7/24/11, 1:34 PM
Methadras said...: Socially awkward atheist men are awkward trying to get laid because they don't have God on their side. He wants you to have fun you know. He isn't all serious business.; 7/24/11, 1:40 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Yeah, I'm drunk, and when I get home I want a blowjob, something to eat, and another drink!"

You have to know the couple to know what's going on there, and even if you know them, you don't really know what stuff like that really means. It could easily be completely welcome, funny, and sexy.; 7/24/11, 2:09 PM
John said...: My God what a homely young woman. When I was single even at my most desparate, durnk and horney, I would not have fucked her with Hitler's dick. She literally doesn't have one pleasent or attractive feature. And she makes up for it by having a worse personality. The fact that any man was desparate or wierd enough to hit on her at all should be cause for her to believe in God.

You really can't make these people up.; 7/24/11, 2:27 PM
John said...: "Jane Hamster is her name I think."

She is the fire dog lake chick. And actually has half a brain for a liberal. Yeah, I wouldn't kick her out of bed on an off night. Otherwise blogging heads is pretty thin gruel. Can you imagine waking up one morning next to Michelle Goldberg or one of the moron twins (Baylzon and Lithwick) from Slate? Talk about chewing your arm off hoping she doesn't wake up.; 7/24/11, 2:30 PM
dick said...: Personally I think she should be honored that anyone would even attempt to take her to his room at any time. He must have been totally whacked out drunk!!; 7/24/11, 2:41 PM
SteveOrr said...: So she’s uncomfortable with failed sexual advances. No shit? Men aren’t comfortable when those advances fail, either. But I don’t see what good can come from shaming members of the opposite sex over such failures.

Feminists complain about the Madonna/whore dichotomy. It’s true, men want a woman who is sexually adventurous with them & frigid with other men. Doesn’t seem complicated to me, but I’m a man. The Alpha/respectful male dichotomy is more confusing.

But like they say, it’s better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. Sometimes my advances will be unwanted & may even be perceived as threatening. Tough shit. So long as I’m not actually threatening anyone, I don’t see a problem.

Althouse nailed it when she pointed out that people have an obligation to make themselves feel safe. You know, get off the elevator.; 7/24/11, 2:44 PM
John said...: It also never occurs to this woman that there is no reason for the guy to care if she doesn't like it. So what? What is she going to do? Not sleep with him? Life is hard honey, especially if you are homely and unpleasent.; 7/24/11, 2:51 PM
Anonymous said...: She's giving dating advice? How do I put this nicely ...; 7/24/11, 2:57 PM
chickelit said...: madAsHell said... She's a carpet muncher.

I'm floored by that term. Besides, as Peter likes to point out, its metaphorical value has been trimmed away.; 7/24/11, 2:59 PM
grackle said...: I don’t think Watson is ugly. She’s way too young for me personally to be very attracted but other than that I might be interested. I would have to see her in person. I don’t demand movie-star/NY model looks from my partners. I like people fine who just look like people. Sexy is as sexy does I’ve always found. And I can sympathized with her feeling a bit sarcastic and waxing on about the blow-up doll, etc. The guy in the elevator was either stupid or uncaring - as were apparently some who responded to her blog post.

Here’s how I would have approached her, leaving Watson’s responses to the reader’s imagination:

Hey I caught your conversation in the bar earlier and it certainly gave me food for thought.

You’re welcome. And like you said before in the bar I’m tired myself.

Ha ha – I guess I DO look pretty exhausted.

Ah, here’s the lobby/my floor. Sometimes these elevators seem sooo slow.

Listen, before we part company – I hope you don’t take this the wrong way – but would you be interested in breakfast together after you wake up?

OK. Well, can’t blame a guy for trying to date a pretty girl … see you around sometime.

Or

Great, here’s my number. Call me when you wake up and are ready. We can meet if you like or I could pick you up. We’ll go to your favorite breakfast place, if you have one.

I’ve had moderate success with such a non-threatening approach. Enough for me to not abandon it. As for going up and asking for sex from strange women until I found a taker – the hell with that. I wouldn’t want to be involved in any way with such a person. Bound to be something really wrong with her. I would feel as if I were participating in pathology.; 7/24/11, 3:01 PM
Paco Wové said...: "I would feel as if I were participating in pathology."

And a great big pool of sexually transmitted disease organisms.; 7/24/11, 3:32 PM
FedkaTheConvict said...: WOW....comparing her Wikipedia photo with these videos she's clearly has lost her fastball.; 7/24/11, 3:40 PM
Gary Rosen said...: ""Yeah, I'm drunk, and when I get home I want a blowjob, something to eat, and another drink!"

You have to know the couple"

Why do you have to know them? Doesn't this describe all of them?; 7/24/11, 4:34 PM
Penny said...: Lost her fastball? haha

Highly unlikely at such a young age, Fedka. Just goes to show you how those nerdy chicks can be tricky!

Would it surprise you to learn that she, the other nerdy stepchicks and the one geeky stepdude used to put out an annual pin-up calendar? None are currently for sale in their Skepchick.org shop right now. Perhaps they've decided to take their "activism" in a different direction.; 7/24/11, 4:36 PM
Penny said...: In her Bloggingheads with Althouse, Althouse got her to acknowledge that, in fact, many attendees at these skeptic conferences go to "hook up".

Would it surprise you to know that Watson "hooked up", rather quickly, it seems, with another attendee at such a conference, married him in short order, and divorced him not all that long after?

Wonder if they shared an elevator?; 7/24/11, 4:42 PM
Penny said...: Also in that Bloggingheads, Watson went on at some length about the cruelty of the emails she receives, and about how much that hurts her. Althouse advised against reading them. Watson said something like..."Well maybe that's how you handle these things, but that's not me."

Yet today, in this new YouTube, Watson says she hasn't read her emails in weeks.

ha ha Slippery chick!; 7/24/11, 4:51 PM
sorepaw said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/24/11, 4:57 PM
Penny said...: Now...speaking of skeptical chicks. Knowing our gal, Althouse, she knew all of the above before she started that Bloggingheads with Watson.

In fact, she even asked her about how she might use her current, not sought after fame. She asked her if she thought about what she might do differently next time.

Let me give the answer that I believe was on Watson's mind at the time, even if not stated.

Next time, I'm not going to get on Bloggingheads with YOU, Althouse!; 7/24/11, 5:02 PM
Penny said...: Do yourself a favor and go back and watch that Bloggingheads again.

Oh! And try not to imagine Althouse dragging that little girl around by her imaginary nose ring.

I dare ya! ha ha; 7/24/11, 5:07 PM
Trooper York said...: "Penny said...
Do yourself a favor and go back and watch that Bloggingheads again."

Why do you hate us so much Penny?; 7/24/11, 5:14 PM
Trooper York said...: Instead of watching this....take out your penis....lay it on the table...and hit it with a hammer.; 7/24/11, 5:14 PM
Trooper York said...: That would approximate a sexual encounter with Ms. Twatson. Just sayn'; 7/24/11, 5:15 PM
caradoc said...: Has the alleged perpetrator of this vile almost-rape been identified? I'm suspicious that the ever happened. She is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen on two legs, including a dancing poodle I saw at a circus when I was a kid. She doesn't have the appearance that gets you random invites, her only shot would be from a person who has know her personally and decides for some masochistic reason that he likes a manhater like her.; 7/24/11, 5:24 PM
FedkaTheConvict said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/24/11, 5:31 PM
FedkaTheConvict said...: Penny said:
Lost her fastball? haha

Highly unlikely at such a young age, Fedka. Just goes to show you how those nerdy chicks can be tricky!

Would it surprise you to learn that she, the other nerdy stepchicks and the one geeky stepdude used to put out an annual pin-up calendar? None are currently for sale in their Skepchick.org shop right now. Perhaps they've decided to take their "activism" in a different direction.
===========================

I saw some of her pin-up photos when the story of the elevator incident first broke but they were obviously several pounds ago.

I also can't discount the possibility that she was artfully posed by a photographer. In her Wikipedia photo her skin was heavily blurred by a ham-handed Photoshopper using the Gaussian Blur tool to create the illusion of smooth skin.

But in the candid shots of the Blogginghead videos she looks quite different. Perhaps the Wikipedia photo is several years old.; 7/24/11, 5:36 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Her outrage over the elevator incident has been silly, but I don't see any reason to call her ugly.

When a woman pisses people off everyone goes after her appearance.

Maybe it's not unfair, however, as people tend to go after a man's manliness when he pisses them off.

Equity in unfairness.; 7/24/11, 6:45 PM
sorepaw said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/24/11, 6:54 PM
reader_iam said...: I thought that was a hoot, especially the section where she was talking about the high-end dolls (an aside: wondering if she saw the same sex toy documentary I did)! I'm still giggling. Not sure it's worth being all serious about, which I find I can't be, anyway.

(Note: Haven't watched the BTV episode yet or even the excerpt here--can't on my iPhone--so I'm doubtless lacking context. Maybe that's why I find the YouTube here, as a standalone, and her in it, so very funny.); 7/24/11, 7:05 PM
Toad Trend said...: OK, OH MY GOD already.

Are you freaking serious?

Rebecca Watson - your creepy, weird, and undesirable dispenser of sexual advice...bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

She's 'heard that the flesh light is pretty good'???

A watermelon????

What is this, MONTY PYTHON???

I'd sooner light myself on fire before even CONSIDERING any kind of encounter with this 'woman' that might include 'sex'. Good grief.

I ask you, again, Ann Althouse, WHERE IN THE WORLD DO YOU FIND THESE PEOPLE???; 7/24/11, 7:31 PM
Skippy said...: Worked 20 years ago with a guy who would travel out of town with co-workers on occasion. This married guy, with inflamed gums, a weak chin, pot belly, and, from what we heard around the office, a fantastically large schlong, would always get a little too close to women in the office while he was talking, and always take the opportunity to examine the woman's body admiringly. Yet, he took no offense if the women did not play along and reciprocate his interest; it was back to business and on to his next potential sex partner. (Eventually, he became a supervisor and got caught in the office one weekend schtupping a lower-ranking female worker in a remote photography darkroom. Did not lose his job.)

On out-of-town trips he would bring a bottle of white wine and a bottle of red wine. After work hours on the trips he'd hit on woman after woman in the hotel until he hit pay dirt, using this lip-smacking style that let the woman know that he thought she was hot and promising, pretty much, that she would have a great time with him. There was always the wine in the room, too, red or white per the woman's preference.

We heard he always got laid and that he was pretty good at what he did. Charm and an effort to please the women paid off handsomely.; 7/24/11, 7:37 PM
Fen said...: "the unfair assumption by you and your supporters that he is a rapist-in-training"

Ann: Speaking of unfair assumptions, that is totally unsupported by the evidence.

Wrong. You just haven't read the articles I'm referring to, where Rebbeca and her supporters assume he was a wanna-be rapist.

You can't pin that on Watson, let alone on me.

Not talking about you.

That's just wrong, and you should step back and apologize right now.

Nope.

If you think you are right, put up the evidence. I know you can't with respect to me, but I am giving you that option. Do the hard work of looking first, and then apologize.

I've already looked. You should know by now that I don't just make this kind of stuff up. I will link you the evidence I'm talking about.

Or just apologize right now.

While I'm away, check your mirror.; 7/24/11, 8:09 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Skippy, what are you talking about? Didn't you hear grackle? You've got to be respectful, take 'em out to breakfast, suck their toes, and teach 'em how to drive, otherwise you're disgusting and the shit just won't work.

Let her lead, that's The Macho Response.; 7/24/11, 8:16 PM
reader_iam said...: The other thing is, when I was still single and working full time on nights and weekends (and for a long time had a part-time job, as well, weekend days), I did actually get asked out, and went out, in the wee hours/pre-dawn hours. Because, you know, whatcha gonna do? I don't think that the men who asked me out during that phase of my life were particularly different from the ones in other phases (except for maybe working more unconventional work schedules or being willing to sleep in shifts).

Well, except for my husband. He did turn out to be different.

; ); 7/24/11, 8:27 PM
Lucius said...: --This "skepchick" pose doesn't make poor Rebecca some hero of the Life of the mind. But neither does her elevator Lothario's fumbling pass make him some kind of hero of the Life of the Dick either.

This teachable moment has been overblown, but then, we're all bubbling inside a bloggospheric teapot and forgetting this isn't all over ABCNews.

It's not like she brought charges and fake-IDed the guy out of a line-up. If it weren't for Dawkins (whether right or wrong) putting in two cents, we'd never have heard of all this.

She's presentable enough, and it's not unreasonable for her to dump on guys like this. Those of you who fancy yourselves up to the game of Colin Firth circa "Valmont" or Connery circa "Never Say Never Again" can relax and get your dicks hard again.

C'mon, she's not threatening to *you*.; 7/24/11, 8:33 PM
rhhardin said...: You'd think comely and homely would rhyme.; 7/24/11, 8:34 PM
Anonymous said...: To be fair, I'm on a buisness trip, and although the people at this hotel seem nice, I would not want a strange man to approach me at 4am in the morning.; 7/24/11, 8:41 PM
Lucius said...: "[H]e who too soon professes himself a lover, raises obstacles to his own wishes, and those whom disappointments have taught experience, endeavour to conceal their passion till they believe their mistress wishes for the discovery."

--Samuel Johnson; 7/24/11, 9:09 PM
Anga2010 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/24/11, 10:09 PM
Anonymous said...: It's been posted before, but I still think Saturday Night Live had the absolute last word on how to avoid trouble from this kind of psycho harpy.

- Be handsome.

- Be attractive.

- Don't be unattractive.

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sexual-harassment/258532/; 7/24/11, 10:14 PM
Anga2010 said...: This is a strange story, because there is no report to the police. We're told of an "upset" woman who was solicited on an elevator but not told who the "solicitator" is. Was he underage? Watson acknowledges that there was an "encounter," but does not say whether or not it was consensual.

No one could not verify the man's age.

The alleged incident raises new questions about Watson's behavior during the so-called "conference."

At this point, we hear about "threatening" behavior that doesn't ostensibly involve sex. What exactly are the "new questions"? This is a cheap and ridiculous article in my view. A woman who is unhappy with her sexual relationship with men has made this video but has not called the police, and now we're supposed to review everything else we know about her in some new context? Is this the way we are to do politics in America now?

Note that the woman who has brought this chaos into her own career is shielded by not revealing even a description of the imagined perpetrator. No one can show up on the defense! That's convenient. I think if you are going to accuse randomly, you should not report at all unless you have reported a crime to the police. It's not fair.; 7/24/11, 10:15 PM
Anga2010 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/24/11, 10:18 PM
Anga2010 said...: AND...
That's not plagarism because I can make the claim that just because you said it before I did does not make you the owner, but instead an interloper on my, as yet, undiscovered intellectual property.; 7/24/11, 10:20 PM
Skippy said...: Crack,

Different methods of romance approach work for different men/women. Why would Grackle's gentle method necessarily be bad? It's what works for him and one can appreciate that. Our office sex prowler made some women feel attractive and sexy, even though, on first glance, you might not think he was such a pretty piece of flesh himself. To each his own. Too bad that the poor fellow in the elevator has been mugged by his erstwhile sex partner on this internet. He should have been carrying a couple of bottles of wine instead of proffering coffee. Coffee and sex? Not such a great combination.; 7/24/11, 10:49 PM
Lucius said...: @Anga2010: You seem confused. Are you being satirical?

There was no (sexual) "encounter", only a trite sort of pass which she found risible and has proceeded to mock.

Her 'career', such as it may or may not be, hasn't been injured by this. The police, needless to say, are not and will not be involved.

Is that last the point you find funny?

Many people find it risible that she complains about all this. I'm leaning now to just laugh along with her and not get all meta about laughing at her laughter instead of with.; 7/24/11, 10:50 PM
autothreads said...: At least the use of a sex doll sidesteps Rebecca's personality.

Are you sure about that?; 7/25/11, 2:13 AM
Gary Rosen said...: "the woman who has brought this chaos into her own career"

Chaos? You mean free publicity. How many people here even heard of her before this? I sure as hell didn't.; 7/25/11, 2:30 AM
autothreads said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/25/11, 2:34 AM
autothreads said...: But I don’t see what good can come from shaming members of the opposite sex over such failures.

Actually, I think you brought up an important point. One manipulative strategy females use from a very early age is the shame game. Girls learn it by watching their moms do it to their dads. If you're a male, the next time you're in an argument with a female pay attention to how they try to belittle you. They'll call you a "little boy", with an emphasis on the "little" just to throw in some sexual humiliation. What's interesting is just how outraged they get if you reply "I may be a boy but at least I'm not a cunt like you."

Actually, the C word is a great example of how women use the shame game. Women will use all sorts of words that directly attack a man and his sexuality. He's a "prick", or a "dick" or "testosterone poisoned" or "thinking with his little head" (there's that word "little" again). The insults roll off their tongues almost without thinking.

But if a man dares to respond in kind with the most radioactive word in the American lexicon, that cannot be tolerated by any member of the sisterhood. So after calling you a "dickhead prick" if you respond by calling her a cunt she will immediately try to shame you for using the word that men are simply not allowed to use.

They get kinda confused when the shame game doesn't work.

Watson is just playing the shame game, only she's not just trying to shame the anonymous geek who tried to hit on her in the elevator, she's trying to shame all men.

The same is done almost every time the word "misogynist" leaves their lips or their pens. The contemporary definition of a misogynist is a man whom women can't control.; 7/25/11, 2:43 AM
reader_iam said...: The contemporary definition of a misogynist is a man whom women can't control.

That definition is not universally embraced. There are many who reject that definition, full stop, and also know the actual definition. They don't accept the new definition, as the new definition--again, full stop.

By stating the new definition as "the contemporary definition", surely you don't *intend* to support it as such (thus empowering those who embrace that definition and sweeping aside those who reject it). Do you?; 7/25/11, 3:20 AM
reader_iam said...: @autothreads:

Seriously, think about it: Could it be that because of how you're condemning something, you're actually empowering that which you sincerely intend to condemn?

(Alternatively, perhaps this is a subtle tool you're using to further an agenda in which it's to your benefit to propagate certain notions as universal, despite the fact that they are not, because such misleading propagating serves your own ends.

Which is it, autothreads?); 7/25/11, 3:55 AM
grackle said...: Didn't you hear grackle? You've got to be respectful, take 'em out to breakfast, suck their toes, and teach 'em how to drive, otherwise you're disgusting and the shit just won't work.

Crack, you forgot putting them through medical school …

Seriously though, doesn’t the woman always have the lead at first contact? She either approaches you or you approach her and it’s yes or no from her. The only other scenario I can imagine is the man forcing the issue and that’s just not my way, to steal a phrase from Ms. Watson. But maybe my idea of taking the lead is different than yours and some of the others.

… this isn't all over ABCNews.

That’s kind of what makes it interesting to me.

But if a man dares to respond in kind … that cannot be tolerated by any member of the sisterhood.

Substitute “victimhood” for “sisterhood.” But, thankfully, most women I’ve encountered are not into that – which doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t ascribe to some of the milder tenets of feminism.

For me there’s no war between the sexes. I don’t wage war, I play the game, the game that should be fun for both sides. Girls(and this boy) just want to have fun.

One manipulative strategy females use from a very early age is the shame game. Girls learn it by watching their moms do it to their dads.

One manipulative strategy people use from a very early age is the shame game. People learn it by watching their parents do it to each other.; 7/25/11, 11:08 AM