"... when the government should have taken steps to ensure that we were not in this situation... I don’t see how I can unring the bell."
Mistrial in the Roger Clemens case, after the prosecution played a video that contained hearsay the judge had ruled inadmissible. Did the government just screw up?
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79 comments:
Did the government just screw up?
Again? I hate that when it happens.
(There's a lot of hating going on anymore)
Gee..I didn't think the government ever screwed up! Clemens lied and the govt. fucked it up..perfect, just fucking perfect.
My God! Has a judge ruled that prosecutors cannot cheat?
I need to sit down from the shock.
What, the instruction that the Jury should pretend they never heard it wouldn't work? :)
Roger needs to come up with a story about his mom and health insurance. Then the lying to Congress is OK.
This whole thing is a farce, right down to the parading of baseball players in front of the Senate.
So, he lied to the Senate. How many times has the Senate lied to us?
Hypocrites.
Well, a mistrial is one option. Another option is to put Ms. Pettitte on the stand, humiliate her, destroy her character, reveal her as the gossiping little witch we all know she is, and call into question her credibility. I'm a personal fan of option #2. But option #1 is good, too.
I really really hope the lawyers on both sides still get paid. It would be such a shame if they didn't.
It bugs me to think that lawmakers can just pull me out of my life and throw me in a hearing and demand I answer their questions, and if I don't tell them the truth, I can go to prison.
Sure, I know, just plead the fifth if I am concealing a crime. Great. And perjury is serious.
But was this issue serious enough to justify that kind of intrusion? Baseball and steroids? Who the hell cares about that in the context of wars and deficits and financial collapse and 1 out of 7 Americans on food stamps?
I think it was a dog and pony show, and while douche Clemens shouldn't have lied, I am not upset if he is not sent to prison over this.
We should put all the committee members behind a table and ask them to explain why this was the most important thing to investigate, and if they say yes, send them to prison for perjury. Just kidding.
"The judge had previously ruled that the jurors would not be told that Ms. Pettitte had confirmed her husband’s account that Clemens once admitted using human growth hormone. She told investigators that her husband told her about that conversation shortly after it happened in 1999 or 2000.
The judge ruled the conversation with the wife was hearsay, and not admissible."
That's so clearly hearsay. Why would the prosecution even attempt to bring it in? But yeah, let's spent more time and effort on this, rather than a real crime with actual victims.
"Following the mistrial, the judge said he would schedule a hearing to determine if their will be a new trial or if the charges against Clemens will be thrown out entirely."
Horseshit.
Empanel a new jury. Make sure the government doesn't fuck up again. Sanction them if they do it again.
The man lied to Congress (allegedly). The citizenry demands justice.
If the judge dismisses the charges, then we'll know the Illimunati fix was in and there were secret handshakes all round.
How long will it be before they change "their" to "there"?
It's driving me nuts for some reason
Put another way, when does the government not screw up?
Any more.
WV "destpor" A combination of destitute and poor. Where we're all bound.
"The man lied to Congress (allegedly). The citizenry demands justice."
No they don't. They don't want to spend a million dollars on this. They probably didn't want congress to investigate in the first place, either.
I admit perjury is too serious to not prosecute, but I have not noticed anyone calling for justice. I'd offer him a very good deal. 500 hours community service talking about drugs to kids.
From where I'm sitting, this man is a victim of the government exposing his jury to inadmissible evidence. Why aren't they on trial too?
We can't put everyone on trial.
Did the government just screw up?
The hell you say. The government had top men on this case. Top. Men.
Damn. I need a plan B for the Madison goose problem.
I haven't followed it closely but wasn't he accused of lying to a bunch of professional liars. If you're called before Congress, take the fifth.
“Did the government just screw up?”
I don’t think Roger Clemens threw screwballs.
http://pitchingprofessor.com/Article_SCREWBALL.html
The screwball is not the kind of pitch (imho) that performance enchaining drugs would enhance.
Sorta like saying that Wilbur Wood’s knuckleball was enhanced by steroids (more like cheeseburger-enhancement for way-to-waddle Wilbur).
Althouse – here’s your question — are prosecutors taking performance enhancing drugs?
The prosecutor threw a screwball – inside – and low – on Clemens.
And the screwball curved back on the prosecution.
Helluvan arc on that sucker.
It’s what happens when men start throwing their balls around.
Cheers,
Jim
A mistrial is better than having a key piece of evidence thrown out and going to the jury without it.
Oh we're so sorry Your Honor, we didn't realize it was in there. Our bad.
wv: loicinal - for masculine itching
“enchaining” (duh!) ... enhancing!
... talk about balling it up!
Jeez, first Casey Anthony and now this? If you can't convict a Yankee bastard like Clemens, who can you convict?
Is that a government balk? Or just beaning Clemens with the ball?
Dustin, Clemens volunteered to testify.
How about the prosecution deliberately blew the case because they discovered a key part of their case was going to fail?
Wanna bet they drop several charges and Clemens pleas to some minor detail?
Andy Petitte is fucking hot.
His hog hangs to the left in his baseball outfit.
You won't know till September 2nd, if there's going to be a retrial, or not.
Poor Roger Clemens. Being hung out to dry because there's always idiots who are parasites ... who think they'll reach fame and fortune by attacking a front runner.
“Or just beaning Clemens with the ball?”
Beats the hellouttame.
Remember what Juan Marichal did? – taking his baseball bat upside Johnny Roseboro’s bean? Maybe Roseburo called a bean ball on Marichal? Or said something about Marichal’s mother taking performance enhancing drugs to produce such a freak (compliment intended to Marichal) of a pitcher? Maybe Roseboro played the prosecutor to Marichal at the plate? Why did they call Roseburo ‘gabby’?
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-05-25/sports/sp-3238_1_time-guerrero
Clemens now? Does Clemens have big enough wood to pull a Marichal on this prosecutor?
"Blogger Joe said...
Dustin, Clemens volunteered to testify.
How about the prosecution deliberately blew the case because they discovered a key part of their case was going to fail?
Wanna bet they drop several charges and Clemens pleas to some minor detail?"
I appreciate the correction.
I have no idea about the theory that the prosecution blew the case on purpose. Seems a little much, but these days you never know.
Perjury is a serious crime, and I guess Clemens has forced this on himself, but the whole issue was a waste of time.
So, he lied to the Senate. How many times has the Senate lied to us?
This. Especially since the Senate shouldn't have been investigating baseball in the first place.
If they sought to intentionally lose...what would have been differently than what they did?
The only place that has a comparable abundance of liars per capita to the House or Senate is a prison.
Clemens didn't lie before the Senate. He lied before a House subcommitee.
Not that those bastards are any better. Well, other than Paul Ryan.
Sigh, I know I'm old when I can remember the excitement of a retired baseball player's rookie year at Boston.
There is a sports mad teen of my acquaintance who's convinced he can play professional sports (right now it's soccer) who has been on HGH since he was 3 years old. I know he has only been getting the dose his body doesn't make, but his sports interest has driven him to serious body building. The kid is unbelievably buff (and all it takes is a teenage girl in the vicinity for him to drop and do push-ups.) Still, I look with suspicion at his muscles, even though I know he works out at least twice a day on his weight machine. How poisoned is my attitude?
Figure someone in the prosecutor's office now has season tickets for life?
Roger should go to jail for all those games he won for the Red Sox.
The ones he won for the Yankees will count as time off for good behavior.
You can catch a guy with a kids head in his icebox and the lawyers will still fuck it up.
The only thing worse than a jounalits is a lawyer.
I think the government screwed up when it called a hearing on baseball in the first place.
I mean you can catch a Frenchman with his dick still in the Maid's mouth and the Lawyers will fuck it up.
He just lied about drug use that wont hurt anybody else. Who doesn't lie about that?
The hell you say. The government had top men on this case. Top. Men.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
-- Not-so-closet Indiana Jones fan
I mean you can find the baby with the duct tape on it's mouth covered in fibers from her mother's trunk and the lawyers will still fuck it up.
Clemens is a douchebag, but the only evidence they have that he lied is the word of some other douchebag, right?
piggybacking on a previous topic, It's hard for me to see how we can hold a baseball player to a higher standard of honesty than we do the President.
I mean you can charge a New York Yankee pitcher, who (while they liked it when he was winning for them) is even disliked by his own teammates, who is a notorious beaner and roid rager, and the lawyers will still fuck it up.
I am only a fan of Boston in that they hate the Yankees too.
Maguro, yes. They should have charged Clemens for being mendoucheous!
People in government make people in entertainment look earnest.
Pretty early in the prosecution case, right? I don't see how this is entitled to dismissal with prejudice.
Screw it up?
It's not really a screw up.
The gov. has unlimited taxpayer resources in trying this case. Clemens has to pay all over again to get the trial back to this stage.
Maybe they did not like the jury pool?
When will we realize that government prosecutors are a huge threat to freedom?
Throw out the charges? That would be a very tasty result.
We know the government is utterly unserious about spending control when they waste resources on pointless show trials such as this.
Did he kill someone? No? Case dismissed.
You know what's missing?
The judge isn't turning these prosecutors over to the Bar!
If the outcome is not going to be like what Nifong got ... All we're watching is a Punch & Judy show.
How many guns went to Clemens under Fast and Furious? Inquiring minds want to know...
Once the jury is sat and sworn, doesn't a mistrial by the prosecution generally result in double jeopardy?
Seems far too generous through for a member of the evil New York Yankees. Gitmo would be too good for Clemens.
Maybe we can do extraordinary rendition of Clemens to Pakistan. The Pakis could beat his ass with cricket bats. That would teach him.
Okay, can we back up the truck a bit? I still do not understand why on God's green earth there were congressional hearings about steriod use in baseball.
Are steroids illegal? (Really. I don't know if they are.)
Is it one of the congressional powers to enforce the rules of the National Baseball League?
kristinintexas:
Yes (most) steroids are illegal or controlled perscription substantance.
Yes, most Congressional hearings are either pandering pony shows or partisan grudge matches and are a complete waste of tax payer money.
Baseball should be able to govern itself.
But we are talking about Roger Clemens here and Clemens is mendoucheous and a New York Yankee. So he deserves it.
National Baseball League
Or Major League Baseball.
Also, House Committee or Senate, it makes little difference to me as the amount of hypocrisy involved is staggering.
Interesting that Judge Walton is the same judge that allowed Patrick Fitzgerald to bring in evidence never testified to in his closing against Scooter Libby. I'd like to put Congress on trial as well as The One, both if which lie all the time.
Thanks, Fred4Pres. (BTW, Fred Thompson was my favorite too. He dropped out much too soon IMO.)
E.M. Davis, is my ignorance of (and apathy toward) almost all things baseball showing?
Maybe that's partly why I find all of this so irritating.
Being stupid enough to talk to Congress should not be a criminal offense. The Feds really need to learn how to prioritize their prosecutions. Congress should not be able to compel testimony (and I understand that Clemmons testified voluntarily, making him an idiot, not a criminal) for their "show hearings."
Did the government just screw up?
The hearings were a screw-up, the decision to press charges was a screw-up... why not screw up the actual prosecution, too?
The hell you say. The government had top men on this case. Top. Men.
And they tried to male C lemens their bottom man.
I don't know much about criminal trials.
Is there a real chance that double jeopardy applies here?
Both cases, Clemens and bond must end. There is no reason for those trials. Both are accused of taking HGH. The effects on grown people are:its cut abdominal fat and refresh your face. That is why 50 cents and Clemens wife are among the user´. There is no effect on performance. WADA knows it but they want athletes destroyed for moral dopping.HGH is a prescription drug to avoid the use by phycoparents trying to make their children giants. I know a couple that tranformed their children in freaks using HGH.
And steroid have no effects on HR. You need speed in your swing not brute force to hit a HR. Kingman batted 462 HR , with his body he should have batted 800 . But a bad,an awfull swing prevented him to do so. The same goes for Lusinnski and many other that looked like hr machines unlike Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron or Willie Mays.
Bond was a 300 carrer batter. You need good sight not force to do that.
The goverment screwed up when they decided that steroids in basball needed to be a federal case while they ignored the NYT violating the espionage act.
If Presidents are entitled to lie about their sex lives, professional athletes should be entitled to lie about their use of steroids. Don't take my word for it, but I have heard that the harm caused by the judicious use of steroids is wildly exaggerated. In any event who wouldn't risk one chance in ten thousand of getting cancer in exchange for the wealth and fame of a professional athlete. Steroids should be allowed until such time as their is an absolutely certain way of detecting them.....Let the punishment fit the crime. In terms of lost reputation and lost income from endorsement deals, Clemens has already been given a much stiffer penalty than anything the courts will impose on him.
So Clemens lied to congress.
Now the government has been caught attempting to cheat in trying him.
I say call the mercy rule, everybody meet at the Dairy Queen.
laddy @ 3:47 PM ... I thought I recognized the name Judge Walton. But didn't place it. Thanks for adding "that" little detail.
SCUM ON GOD'S GOOD EARTH ... the whole fandangled prosecutorial team. With the judge on top. Just like a cherry.
This would have been hearsay I don't know how many times removed. A taped question from a congressman (1) about what Mrs. Pettitte said (2), about what Andy Pettitte said (3), about what Clemens said (4).
I don't know why they'd even try to get something like that into evidence. Is a guy that went to college and 3 years of law school, passed the bar and got a job as an AUSA capable of making such a mistake on a big public trial like this?
I doubt it. My money is on they did it deliberately, either to squirrel the case or to try to get it past the judge without notice.
Fine. If everyone lies about, say, sex, drugs, interns, killing thier daughter, killing their wife, hell, everything, then . . .
do away with the oath. It's meaningless unless enforced. Instruct the jury that everyone lies.
The harm done to the system by this lax enforcement cannot be overstated.
Especially since the Senate shouldn't have been investigating baseball in the first place
Congress granted MLB an exemption from the anti-trust laws. That's their leverage to investigate the players' cup sizes.
The steroid uses stuff theirs like a teenage girl.
DOJ has long history and judges have k=let them get away with it. Ted Stevens is dead because of even worse
wrong doing by DOJ. Those nemrods got away almost scot free.
WV: menta
Does not take a menta to know DOJ is corrupt
do away with the oath. It's meaningless unless enforced. Instruct the jury that everyone lies.
He's being prosecuted for lying to Congress, not for lying in court.
Our system does not depend on American citizens being honest about their private lives when speaking to politicians.
The true effect of PEDs is that they help athletes recover faster from fatigue and injury.
Barry Bonds had one of the purest, most compact, efficient swings in the game. That's what led to him being such a prolific HR hitter. However, his PED use allowed him to play at a higher peak for more games than a non-PED user, thus the inflation of HR. And yes, some of his doubles turned into homers thanks to the physical impact of the drugs.
What this really has to do with Congress is beyond me.
If the judge don't toss, he's one corrupt bastard!
For all I know the jurors looked sympathetic. So Walton tossed them out; thinking the next set of jurors will work better!
As to show trials by congress ... I'm reminded of Joseph McCarthy. And, how he waved about a piece of paper, saying he had a "list."
And, then, there was HUAC. When hollywood's best got called into "testifuy." Careers were ruined. But Woody Allen did get a great movie out of the material.
Of course, the most successful hearing was John Dean's. Which forced Nixon's resignation.
Tried again with Reagan. But it made a millionaire out of Ollie North.
And, of course. Bent Billy's penis sent the GOP foaming. Only to see American's shrugging.
Nobody should have to face this sort of witchcraft! Roger Clemens wasn't paid enough!
Patrick Fitzgerald TOO MUCH.
And, Judge Walton? He's fucking incompetent. So, he's inviting the cameras back ito his courtroom.
Roger Clemens will be battling this horse manure all his life!
And, no one will say it's double jeopardy.
Tossing out jurors ... and, replacing them with another set ... does have a few cases on the books where it becomes the Punch & Judy show.
I find myself caring less and less about crimes that only exist because of some other crime that, while investigated, was never proven.
"Lying to investigators" has become the catchall charge for enemies of the people.
So what is the penalty for the prosecutors who intentionally disregarded an order from the bench? They really must have wanted to get the hearsay to the jury. I cannot imagine the lawyers "forgetting" exactly what was on the tape. After all, this might be the highest profile case of their lives.
Well, I guess the problems of the Fed are solved as to now go after baseball players hence retired. Good job Congress.
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