Said Dick Cheney:
It's the kind of thing where an awful lot of people over a long period of time, thousands have worked this case and worked these issues and followed up on the leads and captured bad guys and interrogated them and so forth.
(Earlier the interview had prompted Cheney about the "interrogation program that's now defunct," and Cheney had said "it's an enhanced interrogation program that we put in place back in our first term.")
So I think it could be looked upon as a collective effort by our military and intelligence personnel-- and by a lot of our civilian leaders. And in the final analysis we demonstrated conclusively that the American government takes very seriously our responsible to bring justice, if you will, or to bring to justice somebody like Bin Laden who's committed this terrible outrage, killing-- 3,000 Americans on 9/11.
And I think the way for us to think about it is-- is to think about it as part of a collective effort. It started in the Clinton administration, was carried forward very aggressively in the Bush administration and now the Obama administration with the-- the results that we're all very pleased to see today....
And now? Can we feel good at last?
[W]e need to preserve our sense of vigilance... There's every reason to believe there'll be further attacks attempted against the United States. And for us to spend so much time patting ourselves on the back because we got Bin Laden that we miss the next attack would be a terrible tragedy. We need to stay just as vigilant as we have been. We need to continue to emplace those policies that produced the intelligence that we needed in order to be able to successfully complete this mission.
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Dick Cheney sure has gotten a raw deal from the media/political class in the last decade. I'm betting our long term history will show him to be one of the giants of our age, and rightfully so.
It started in the Clinton administration, was carried forward very aggressively in the Bush administration and now the Obama administration with the-- the results that we're all very pleased to see today
Classy. Even though the Clinton approach was wrong (collecting intel for trial instead of execution), Cheney still gives them credit for being on board.
Fen, I had the same thought.
I miss that guy.
Let's see if President Obama shows the same class and gives some credit to President Bush.
Fred4Pres said... Let's see if President Obama shows the same class and gives some credit to President Bush.
That would be a first.
I still can't get over Hillary's face in that 'Situation Room' photo, seeing the abstract become concrete.
Pogo, I felt the same way. It looked as though she was just realizing that this sh*t is **real** and not just abstract.
wv: clensto
Good thing Obama kept in place the fascist Bush policies, despite the caterwauling of the leftists who voted for him to dismantle the policies.
I praise Obama for being smart and prudent enough to do so, despite attacks from his base.
The real popcorn moments are the back slapping and rah rah "we got Osama using targetted assasination while violating the national sovereignity of a nation we aren't at war with" cheerleading in praise of Obama from the O-bot Democrats, after all their "Darth Cheneys personal assassination hit team" opportunistic blather and handwringing.
Pogo,
How about this face?
How about this face?
Thats the face of Command.
About fucking time.
The war on terror was won in the long hard slog through Iraq and Afghanistan and the thousands of other missions around the world. It is mostly in Iraq where we defeated Al Qaeda as a world wide movement. It is in Iraq where Al Qaeda was discredited.
People forget the danger Al Qaeda posed in 2001. It wasn’t just about terrorist attacks or the damage they could do, it was about the political movement of taking control of governments in the middle east. The movement had a lot of credibility around the world. Jihadists flocked from everywhere to join the banner. There was a real risk for Al Qeada taking control of a state, which would have had disastrous consequences.
Bin Ladin wanted us to come and attack him in Afghanistan, and we did. But his plan was thwarted by the invasion of Iraq. It is in Iraq where Bin Ladin lost strategic control of Al Qaeda.
Al Qaeda poured everything into the fight in Iraq. It was there that Al Qaeda was discredited as a political force. Year after year of thwarted attacks, of Al Qaeda slaughtering innocent civilians, and of us killing tens of thousands of their most fevered followers ruined Al Qaeda as a movement. Now, no one joins their banner. Who wants to join a movement where you are always defeated and there are no stories of heroism coming back from the front. Instead, there is never any good news. You only here of your brother who went off to join Al Qaeda and never came back.
Killing Bin Ladin, was just the icing on the cake.
Imagine, that administration handled a major recession, the 9/11 attacks and the anthrax scare simultaneously right at the start of their turn. They brought the country through all that under a hostile media comprised of very few members who voted for them. They handled their endless critics with respect and distance, even in the worse of times. The contrast in competence and maturity is stunning.
@pbAndj:
"So that's what 'kinetic' means."
Just kidding. He looks serious; as if understanding something about real life for the first time.
Now we have Biden in this post.
That is, he sees faces and outcomes on his orders.
I praise Obama for being smart and prudent enough to do so, despite attacks from his base.
Some call that being mugged by reality.
Short memories, indeed: Obama, the "most gutsiest" president in "recent memory.
Speaking at the daily White House press briefing, Brennan said he believed Obama had made "one of the most gutsiest calls of any president in recent memory" in deciding to authorize the raid. Brennan said that while officials had great confidence in the intelligence received ahead of the operation, "there was nothing to confirm that bin Laden was at that compound."
More "one of the most... moments..."
Brennan described the scene in the room as "probably one of the most anxiety-filled periods of time, I think, in the lives of the people who were assembled here."
The real popcorn moments are the back slapping and rah rah "we got Osama using targetted assasination while violating the national sovereignity of a nation we aren't at war with" cheerleading in praise of Obama from the O-bot Democrats, after all their "Darth Cheneys personal assassination hit team" opportunistic blather and handwringing.
The problem is you underestimate the cognitive dissonance of his base.
Maybe I am cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if that picture was picked because of how Hillary looked in it vs. Obama. Even so, Obama still looked like he was shoehorned in the corner as if he were just one of the staff.
We all know Obama is a ruthless bastard at heart. It is just nice to see that ruthlessness used against our countries enemies for a change.
Unlike that little punk, obama, Cheney is willing to give even Clinton credit. That's because he's a man, and not a boy.
For the record:
Obama was quite willing to prosecute some of the very people who made this possible.
Nah Jason, that was just bullshit "international law" red meat for the anti-America neo-Commies he needed votes from.
I miss the straightforwardness of this man. Here's to hoping that he receives some apologies from those that bashed his "personal assisination team" now that the One has used them as well.
My sense is that in order to fly in that close to their capital, exposing our soldiers like that, Pakistan had to be in on it.. In exchange we promised that we would not disclose their acquiescence.
That's not to say we don't have good detection counter measures but when you look at a map and see how far they had to fly from Afghanistan, its very hard to conceive not letting them in on the operation, possibly at the last minute.
My sense is that in order to fly in that close to their capital, exposing our soldiers like that, Pakistan had to be in on it.. In exchange we promised that we would not disclose their acquiescence.
I'm not so sure. I think, this was actaully the big risk that Obama took for this mission. What would Pakistan's reaction be to this kind of military action in their country?
We will find out. However, if I were Pakistan, I would have to come up with some sort of consequence.
(The Crypto Jew)
My sense is that in order to fly in that close to their capital, exposing our soldiers like that, Pakistan had to be in on it.. In exchange we promised that we would not disclose their acquiescence.
Or not….the compound was within 1,000 metres of a Military Academy and close to a Police Station. The Pakistani’s HAD to know this was a terror safe house, at a minimum. I’m not sure we would have told them anything until the very last moment…”Uh Dood, you may be hearing reports of gunfire in Abbottabad; that’s an US Special Operation underway to eliminate an AQ HVT, quite possibly Usama, himself. Just thought I’d let you know.”
With NOE flight, GPS, AWACS coverage, and possibly either an MH-53 Pave Low III or in an Mi-17, or an MH-60 MOCKED UP TO LOOK LIKE AN Mi-17, the US forces might have been able to penetrate Pakistani air space, with relative impunity. Mimic a friendly force, in path, IFF codes, and visual simulation, or just rely on speed, low altitude, and stealth technology to deliver your team on target, WITHOUT informing the Pakistani’s, are both viable alternatives. I don’t believe that the US trusted the Pakistani’s to not inform the targets of our approach.
The Obama admin brought some special ops guys to court last year for slapping a detainee. Slapping.
That's the stuff they are made of.
Naaah, Joe; they were just totally fooled by the knock on the door and the message: "Candygram."
For example, this kind of action could cause the fall of the current Pakistan government. It could be taken over by a much more unfriendly government that could cut off our supply routes to Afghanistan. That would require us to withdraw from Afghanistan. Remember, Pakistan has nuclear weapons.
Another scenario could be for the current government to take drastic action against us to preserve their political status. They may have to end cooperation in order to preserve their rule.
This is the real risk from this action. Lets hope it plays out. Or lets hope it was not a mistake to publicize Bin Ladin’s capture right away.
Lem- I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some in the Pakistan government knew about it, and some didn't, and we are covering for those that did so they don't get in trouble with those that didn't.
If we told the president but not the military, the military would be mad at the president. And vice versa.
But yeah, I think someone had to know. Didn't we leave prisoners behind for them to deal with/question?
Bullshit. Like Captain Picard, The ONE said, "Make it so" and it was done. In a matter of hours, not days even. Bush and Cheney had nothing to do with it.
I don't think the Pakis knew that mission was going to happen.
I wondered about this and I think they were kept in the dark right up to the assault. Reason is, they claim the firefight took 40 minutes and I have a hard time believing there is going to be a 40 minute firefight less than a mile away from a military training school and the compound wasn't swarming with Pakistani military within minutes.
We will find out. However, if I were Pakistan, I would have to come up with some sort of consequence.
Possible win for both sides. Pakistan is outraged over this and closes off all logistical access to our troops in Afghanistan. We have no way to feasibly be resupplied and thus declare victory and bring the troops home.
You heard it here first.
Also, why did we have to publicize Bin Ladin’s death right away? What is the point.? We did not need a morale boost at this time. Most Americans had totally forgotten about him. Why not try to capture him in secret and take advantage of any evidence found in his compound to capture someone else that may not know of Bin Ladin’s capture. Publicizing his capture right away only alerts anyone else to the capture. Furthermore, why not try to pretend that Bin Ladin is still out there and influence the activities of any command structure that Bin Ladin still had (i.e., issue false orders, etc..).
What struck me in that picture is how small Obama looks. That is not the countenance nor the body language of an Alpha. I cannot imagine Bush or Cheney ever looking like that.
As always, Darth gets it right, although I have to agree with Fen that he's giving Willie too much credit, but that's a class act for you.
Also agree with MayBee. There are plenty of Paks who aren't Pushtun and aren't Moslem fanatics. There was an element in the government that knew and went along with the op. That much we now know.
"Most Americans had totally forgotten about him."
Really? I'm pretty sure most Americans remembered who he was even if they didn't mention him every day.
(The Crypto Jew)
Reason is, they claim the firefight took 40 minutes and I have a hard time believing there is going to be a 40 minute firefight less than a mile away from a military training school and the compound wasn't swarming with Pakistani military within minutes.
I believe the RAID took forty minutes, from wheels up to wheels chocked, the fire fight took much less…I doubt the cadets were going to do much, and if you were a policeman at the station and you saw and heard copious automatic weapons fire coming from a compound, and then saw and heard a large explosion followed by a fire, how “interested” would YOU have been in rushing right on over? My bet is after there hadn’t been any gunfire for about 5-10 minutes, the cops knocked on the door and asked, “Everything all right in there?”
TWM: Bush and Cheney had nothing to do with it.
How ignorant.
But I'm happy to see a libtard embrace the enchanced interrogation techniques that made all this possible.
I like the new, unilateral, extra-judicial Obama.
Fen said: "How ignorant.
But I'm happy to see a libtard embrace the enchanced interrogation techniques that made all this possible."
Seriously, the whole Picard "Make it so" snark didn't clue you into the sarcasm?
My sense is that in order to fly in that close to their capital, exposing our soldiers like that, Pakistan had to be in on it.
As I said yesterday, No Way did Pakistan know. Someone would have leaked it to OBL.
Earlier news stories had the compound in the middle of town. It was actually a couple of miles out in the country:
here
TWM: Seriously, the whole Picard "Make it so" snark didn't clue you into the sarcasm?
No. My only defense is that I haven't had my morning dose of coffee.
Sorry about that.
"No. My only defense is that I haven't had my morning dose of coffee.
Sorry about that."
Eh, no worries. I figured you were just a Trekkie, and my having re-watched "Fanboys" last night, you were upset because I compared Picard to Obama.
We need to stay just as vigilant as we have been.
Fine. Do we have to stay as stupid and mean-spirited while doing that? We need to take the monster Bush created in reactionary haste and reform it, shrink it, neuter it, regulate the living piss out it, watch it like a hawk, knock its Hydra heads together, lob a few of them off, make it accountable for its actions, and smarten it up by whole magnitudes of order.
Unlike Cheney, I'd like to see us reduce our state of vigilance, not to zero, and not to where it was in the early Bush administration, but to some rational level that is consonant with the threat of a handful of semi-competent malcontents on the other side of the world. In particular I think it is a strategic waste to spend a hundred billion dollars a year trying to make sure Afghanistan and Pakistan do not become the training grounds of future groups of radical Islamicists. It is unrealistic. Better, and much cheaper, to stop them over here than over there. 9/11 was a sucker punch pure and simple and if Bush and Co. had not been asleep at the wheel it would never have happened. The politics of fear is driving us into bankruptcy. It is a lousy excuse for an empire we cannot afford and don't need. There.
Cheney doesn't understand that marxists don't share credit. Period.
My guess is that plenty of Al Qaeda sympathizers teach at the Pakistan military academy. They probably provided communications and other services for the safe house containing Osama (though they most likely did not realize that Osama lived in the safe house).
The helicopters might have been partially disassembled and shipped deep into Pakistan before being reassembled prior to takeoff.
No way Pakistan knew anything about the mission.
My guess is that the USA government pretends that our relationship with Pakistan is OK but that we extend zero trust to Pakistan and step up espionage operations in Pakistan (in conjunction with India) and assassinations of key anti USA Pakistani leaders. Is there any reason to respect Pakistan's sovereignty?
India and the USA will become much closer allies over time.
I doubt the cadets were going to do much, and if you were a policeman at the station and you saw and heard copious automatic weapons fire coming from a compound, and then saw and heard a large explosion followed by a fire, how “interested” would YOU have been in rushing right on over?
I don't know about that. Its not like Pakistan hasn't had its share of terrorism and running gun battles. I simply have a hard time believing that you can have a firefight occuring less than a mile from a military school and everyone just sits there.
"Obama was quite willing to prosecute some of the very people who made this possible."
Who are those people? What scintilla of evidence do you have "Obama was quite willing to prosecute" these unnamed heroes? If he was so willing, why didn't he act?
"Picard was far to the left of Obama. The Federation was more communist than the USSR."
No, no, no, I refuse to be lured into a Star Trek debate. That's a black hole from which there is no escape.
"The Obama admin brought some special ops guys to court last year for slapping a detainee. Slapping."
As they should have. Too bad they didn't apply the same legal requirements to the criminals at the top who engendered this disgraceful clusterfuck of torture and mass murder in which we are mired.
('course, now Obama and his people are carrying on this same clusterfuck, and thus warrant prosecution themselves.)
Wow. What if Obama has discovered that he likes having people killed?
Too bad they didn't apply the same legal requirements to the criminals at the top
You know Robert, yesterday in a previous thread you stated that you were working in NYC when the WTC was taken down and afterwards you thought 'they've blown their wad'.
I find it quite telling that you can be outraged so much over our efforts to find and eliminate terrorists but when 3000 Americans are slaughered by those same terrorists, you can't seem to muster much outrage at all but rather a sense that gee, is the best they can do?
Quite telling indeed.
Sloanasaurus wrote...
Also, why did we have to publicize Bin Ladin’s death right away? What is the point.?
============
It is a little hard to keep a little raid "quiet" in the middle of a city of 1 million...not with automatic weapons fire heard round the Abbotabad region and everyone seeing a 300 foot high fireball as 10 pounds of C-4 blasted a crippled Blackhawk to smithereens. Not to mention a raid in a sovereign nation that will be asked "ummm, what happened??"
Not easy to "keep it all quiet" when you have wives and kids of dead couriers left alive, Binnie's other wife being taken to hospital for bullet wounds to the leg.
Obama got it right. Be straight with the American people and the rest of the nations on what happened.
This was not something to play "coy" with.
Pogo,
How about this face? (9:26)
Does he have a Photoshopped chin? Or is that Adobe Illustrator, the WH software of choice, at work?
I'm wondering what part the Islamic jihadi groups think Pakistan played in this operation. Whether they played any part at all is totally beside the point. If the jihadi groups thought they even might have there could be Hell to pay for the Pakistani government and its people. Quite possibly the jihadis might decide to back off the US but that does not let the Muslim countries off the hook at all.
Hoosier,
As usual, you continue to display your propensity (or intention) to misread what I presume is your native language.
Pity. My memory of schools in Indiana, for the few years I enjoyed them, were that they were superior to the schools in Florida, where my family moved when I was young. (Which is why I prefer to think you are intentionally misrepresentating--rather than misunderstanding--my remarks.)
Cookie -The Obama admin brought some special ops guys to court last year for slapping a detainee. Slapping.
"As they should have. Too bad they didn't apply the same legal requirements to the criminals at the top who engendered this disgraceful clusterfuck of torture and mass murder in which we are mired.
('course, now Obama and his people are carrying on this same clusterfuck, and thus warrant prosecution themselves.)"
==============
The problem you, the anti-American progressive Jew tranzis, the EuroLeft, the post-communist Left liberal faction all have with "Off to the Hague, Rule of Law!, off to jail in irons for any soldier that slaps a terrorist for 10 years!!"
Is that you really don't have the strength to back up what you seek to do to Vlad Putin, Cheney, Obama, Bush, Blair, Hu Jintao, Sarkozy.
The fantasy is that you snag Putin in Belgium for a show trial, publicity-hungry Belgian lawyers wave papers in the faces of Russian diplomats and all genuflect to the lawyers. Or ACLU Jews from NYC work with post-communist Swiss to bag Cheney on a Geneva connecting flight and scream "Rule of Law!" and the NY Times itself endorses "doing nothing, but ensuring the Spanish and Syrian "international law" prosecutors give Cheney a fair trial in Geneva...
1. First, the Swiss and Belgians and NY Times staff are not that stupid.
2. Second, the Russian, American, CHinese, French, Brit public (barely in the Brits case) would not countenance it and would authorize military action if no release happened.
3. Third, the military involved would likely find it a pleasure to target nests of post-communist, progressive Jewish Anti-West Tranzis involved in kidnapping their leader.
4. And since the aggression came from civilian lawyers and their supporters in waylaying heads of state and violating diplomatic treaties - the old "minimize civilian casualties" would not be very applicable to military actions done by the Speznaz, the Chinese light revolutionary militia against targets overseas, or the 82nd Airborne coming in to kick butt.
The media keeps saying that Obama took big risks with this raid? But what risks relative to other missions. Certainly Obama has approved dozens of missions which we know nothing about. If this mission failed and a few guys died in the process, would we have known it was a failed mission to get Bin Ladin? It would have been just another mission to get another Al Qaeda guy.
This mission was far less risky than the 1980 mission to rescue hostages. IN that mission, failure would be immediatly known. And the mission was behind enemy lines.
Hoosier,
As usual, you continue to display your propensity (or intention) to misread what I presume is your native language.
No Robert, I have pretty good reading comprehension.
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