Althouse: Passed!

March 10, 2011

Passed!

The bill has passed, phones Meade.

ADDED: Meade declares the protest over: There's nothing to do anymore. It will have to wind down.

140 comments:

kent said...: DEMOCRACY!!!!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS -- !!!; 3/10/11, 2:11 PM
Kevin said...: Ypa!; 3/10/11, 2:11 PM
sane_voter said...: Democracy whiskey sexy!; 3/10/11, 2:12 PM
Anonymous said...: huzzah!; 3/10/11, 2:12 PM
Triangle Man said...: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites.; 3/10/11, 2:14 PM
MadisonMan said...: And no one was arrested, were they?; 3/10/11, 2:15 PM
Christopher in MA said...: WE WON. How's that medicine tasting now, lefties?; 3/10/11, 2:15 PM
Daniel Fielding said...: Victory!!!!!:):); 3/10/11, 2:15 PM
Kevin said...: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites.

I had no idea that Jesse Jackson was from Wisconsin.; 3/10/11, 2:16 PM
Godot said...: This is what democracy looks like!; 3/10/11, 2:16 PM
Chennaul said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/10/11, 2:18 PM
Stogie said...: Hooray!; 3/10/11, 2:19 PM
Winding down said...: Elections have consequences ---or so I hear tell; 3/10/11, 2:19 PM
Trooper York said...: Well if Meade said it then it must be so.; 3/10/11, 2:20 PM
Lincolntf said...: Arrested? Of course not. Climbing through the windows of closed National Monument is a longtime Madison tradition, not a crime. Just like phony doctors and handcuffing the exit doors of a crowded public space. Duh, winning!

Ignorance, disrespect and hostility have been the driving forces behind these pathetic protests from day one. The lack of arrests just shows what kind of society you people will tolerate. Trash strewn halls and mob rule are all you idiots deserve. You should be thanking Walker for saving you from yourselves.; 3/10/11, 2:20 PM
Anonymous said...: "WE WON."

Never assume that with the Left. Wisconsinites won in November but were still dragged through Zimbabwean-hell just so the Democrat Party can keep their money laundering going.

This isn't over. This was just the first bill in a decade-long push back to rein in the fascism of the Left.; 3/10/11, 2:20 PM
Trooper York said...: Is he going to go back to filming soggy breakfast pizzas and strange vegetables at the Farmers market?; 3/10/11, 2:21 PM
TWM said...: When is Walker gonna sign it?; 3/10/11, 2:22 PM
kent said...: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites.

Went to high school there with Michael Moore. Go ahead, ask him; he'll vouch for me.; 3/10/11, 2:22 PM
traditionalguy said...: Will the GOP grant Walker a Triumph at their next convention? I say yes. He can then run as President Palin's VP candidate. Wisconsin, where it is all happening...or as the SEIU/Obama guys say, " The State of the death of the Progressive Democrats".; 3/10/11, 2:22 PM
Trooper York said...: kent said...
I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites

Hey take that back!; 3/10/11, 2:23 PM
commentor said...: "We Are All Wisconsinites"; 3/10/11, 2:24 PM
Bob_R said...: THIS is what democracy looks like.; 3/10/11, 2:24 PM
Gene said...: I cannot believe the public employee unions cannot find a judge to put the bill on hold for the next couple of years. After an 18 month delay, during which the judge with prohibit any provisions from taking effect, there will be a hearing, after which the judge will declare all but the innocuous parts of the bill to be unconstitutional.

Nothing will change. The law passed by the legislature will be rendered null and void.

This is what a judge did in California to immigration propositions passed by the voters. I suspect there's no reason they can't do it in Wisconsin too.

Next step of the unions--to the courts.; 3/10/11, 2:24 PM
Trooper York said...: No we ain't.

No way am I wearing plastic cheese on my head.; 3/10/11, 2:25 PM
Jim Treacher said...: Is he going to go back to filming soggy breakfast pizzas and strange vegetables at the Farmers market?

Yes, but not the sour grapes. That's your department.; 3/10/11, 2:25 PM
Chennaul said...: Here is the livestream link-it's sometimes live....

Livestream-The Uptake

Right now Jess Jackson is giving a speech outside.

One of the commenters over there said something like-

hopefully they will listen to Jesse Jackson and march around the Capitol building instead of into it.

We'll see.; 3/10/11, 2:25 PM
Bob_R said...: No one was arrested. But the people who put the handcuffs on the door should have been.; 3/10/11, 2:25 PM
sunsong said...: Congratulations!!!; 3/10/11, 2:26 PM
Martin L. Shoemaker said...: Meade must be getting tired. I can't think of another explanation for his naivete.

Somewhere in the crowd right now, someone is thinking: "The Battle for Wisconsin is not over. The Battle for Wisconsin has just begun."; 3/10/11, 2:26 PM
nichole said...: Really? http://twitter.com/#!/MikeElk/status/45943385432920064; 3/10/11, 2:26 PM
JohnJ said...: Good!

But now the hard part: They'll have to show that the fuss was worth it.; 3/10/11, 2:27 PM
traditionalguy said...: My suspicion is that Governor Walker is like that rare bird, Abe and he has no fear of enemy armies and their tactics since he sees so clearly.; 3/10/11, 2:27 PM
Trooper York said...: Hey Treacher baby...you don't know what you are talking about. I am just busting Meades balls.

Hey spouting off about something you don't know about....are you sure your name ain't Teacher?; 3/10/11, 2:27 PM
Bart DePalma said...: I suspect the GOP viewed a straight up vote on the union reforms as preferable to laying off teachers and such.

In order to head off any pro-union judge from reversing the democratic process, call a vote on the entire original legislation as soon as the AWOL senate Dems return to work.; 3/10/11, 2:27 PM
Sofa King said...: Wait, what? I'm listening to debate on Wisconsin Eye right now...is it way behind or something?; 3/10/11, 2:28 PM
kent said...: kent said...
I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites

Trooper misread. ;); 3/10/11, 2:29 PM
Sofa King said...: I did hear a vote to remove the current speaker, which failed...; 3/10/11, 2:29 PM
Triangle Man said...: I had no idea that Jesse Jackson was from Wisconsin.

So your interest in this is also self-promotion and political theater?; 3/10/11, 2:30 PM
Glen W.E. Chism said...: Meade lied, that's all . . .; 3/10/11, 2:30 PM
coketown said...: To be continued next election. Unless the Union supporters decide to burn all the ballot boxes as a form of "extra-procedural" action.; 3/10/11, 2:31 PM
DADvocate said...: Oh, they could riot to express their extreme discontent. It's happened before. Maybe our wonderful teachers will be a little nicer at the next parent - teacher conference or the clerk smile a little more at the DMV.; 3/10/11, 2:32 PM
Triangle Man said...: No way am I wearing plastic cheese on my head.

Where do wear your plastic cheese in Brooklyn?; 3/10/11, 2:32 PM
Moonfeather.rift said...: "Its over now"

Logically there's no reason to continue but I suspect that all those angry protesters have to vent their frustration somehow.; 3/10/11, 2:33 PM
Trooper York said...: "Where do wear your plastic cheese in Brooklyn?"

Between our toes of course.; 3/10/11, 2:33 PM
1775OGG said...: Whoa, has "Democracy" ruled on this bill yet? Until it does, nothing's over except the Rights of Man and of course, "Humane and Scientific" methods as applied by the mob.

OTOH: Who let that villain limp onto the stage!; 3/10/11, 2:35 PM
Anonymous said...: It is always hard to get a pig out of the trough when he has his two front trotters firmly planted therein.

But it has to be done.; 3/10/11, 2:37 PM
Henry said...: Triangle Man wrote: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites.

Ich bin ein Cheesehead.; 3/10/11, 2:37 PM
James said...: THat's a genuine scoop. No other news organization has this news...not even the local stations.; 3/10/11, 2:37 PM
chickelit said...: Gene said...Nothing will change. The law passed by the legislature will be rendered null and void.

Well let's hope that at least the State finances improve so that this execise isn't overshadowed by layoffs.; 3/10/11, 2:38 PM
Jed said...: Unless Wiseye is on tape delay, the vote has not taken place yet. The earlier vote was about removing Fitz as Speaker.; 3/10/11, 2:39 PM
James said...: BTW, the bill couldn't have passed yet....there is a minimum 2 hour period before the Assembly can vote.; 3/10/11, 2:40 PM
DADvocate said...: Dreamer! ;)

"You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one"

:D; 3/10/11, 2:40 PM
Dopey said...: When will we have the video? I've been following the updates all day. It's good to have real news in real time!; 3/10/11, 2:41 PM
Sofa King said...: What is remarkable, listening to the debate, is that nearly every single Democrat is whining about things like access to the Capitol, the feelings of protesters, and being delayed from entering the Capitol. Not one single substantive argument against the actual bill has yet been made.; 3/10/11, 2:42 PM
Triangle Man said...: The NYTimes says the vote has been delayed.

Thursday, Thursday, Thursday!

Meade versus The New York Times!

Cage fight smack down!

Two media enter one media leave.; 3/10/11, 2:43 PM
Triangle Man said...: Between our toes of course.

Might have to give that a try.; 3/10/11, 2:44 PM
coketown said...: The lady interviewed on the live stream just said it was 11:30, so I think it's a couple hours behind. But nobody else is reporting that the bill passed. So maybe Meade was talking about a kidney stone.; 3/10/11, 2:44 PM
kent said...: [...] nearly every single Democrat is whining about things like access to the Capitol [...] and being delayed from entering the Capitol.

Poor, put-upon kidnapping victims.; 3/10/11, 2:45 PM
Lincolntf said...: So the question remains, will the violent scumbags bumrush the building again tonight?; 3/10/11, 2:45 PM
TWM said...: Akkk, did it pass or not? Not that there is doubt it will, I'm just tired of waiting.; 3/10/11, 2:48 PM
Franklin said...: Congratulations Wisconsin!; 3/10/11, 2:49 PM
MayBee said...: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites.

I don't think it would be good for anyone in America if the fleeing maneuver had been rewarded.; 3/10/11, 2:49 PM
Methadras said...: Looks like the state of Wisconsin had the balls to apply an anti-parasitic to the host to get rid of them. It will take a whole, but the public employee union tape-worm is on its way out.; 3/10/11, 2:51 PM
James said...: Hmmmm . . . so, all of our ejaculations are premature????

:( Glad I didn't take the headline and run with it without investigating further. Wouldn't want to commit a standard lefty faux pas

By my estimate a vote can't take place until 4:15 CT at the earliest. And I predict it will be another snap vote like the one last week.; 3/10/11, 2:53 PM
Leland said...: What Bill? Did the Senate Dems come back, and they passed the original fiscal bill? Or did they pass the new Union laws voted on last night?

If the latter, then there is still the issue of raising the rate in which public employees contribute to their benefits. TO THE GATES!!!; 3/10/11, 2:53 PM
Chennaul said...: You can listen to the WI Assembly proceedings here:

wiseye.org

I cannot get the video to stream.; 3/10/11, 2:53 PM
Methadras said...: Sofa King said...

What is remarkable, listening to the debate, is that nearly every single Democrat is whining about things like access to the Capitol, the feelings of protesters, and being delayed from entering the Capitol. Not one single substantive argument against the actual bill has yet been made.

That's because leftards only make emotional pleas to the victimhood of themselves, their victimized constituents, and the egregious victimization of their special interests the PEU.; 3/10/11, 2:54 PM
Thorley Winston said...: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites

Nope, just a federal taxpayer who doesn’t want to have to finance another bailout of State and local governments and supports efforts to reign in spending at all levels of government.; 3/10/11, 2:54 PM
Chennaul said...: CNN is reporting that Halperin Democrat Senator is heading back to WI.; 3/10/11, 2:55 PM
Sofa King said...: A vote has just taken place not to overrule the chair's ruling on a point of order challenging whether the bill was in order.; 3/10/11, 2:55 PM
Leland said...: Ack, I guess the phrase is "TO THE BARRICADES!!" The miserable...; 3/10/11, 2:56 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Let the good times roll!!; 3/10/11, 2:57 PM
Chennaul said...: Yep. CNN is reporting the same and if you listen at the link I posted above it seems like the Democrats are trying to stall it.

Hell if I know parliamentary procedure but that's what it sounds like.; 3/10/11, 2:59 PM
tammy said...: Oh whoa is us. Liberal weaning time. Thankfully, WI popped it's tit out of the liberal mouths.; 3/10/11, 2:59 PM
Leland said...: My understanding is that this is part of what passed last night. Only appropriations were removed.

Well, playing with the game rules; then the Senate Dems can still put the WI government into a shutdown by staying out and continuing the fiscal protest. It would be a very interesting protest for Democrats to complain about a targeted tax increase of 5% on those who utilizes the end product. Particularly when the alternative to the 5% targetted increase is a tax increase to all taxpayers. Not really a good political move, if you ask me.

Then again, nobody asked my advice about fleeing the state. So I'm not holding my breath while waiting for the protest to be over.; 3/10/11, 2:59 PM
Sofa King said...: This is literally the fourth Democrat to talk about people crying.

Who the hell cares.; 3/10/11, 3:00 PM
Chennaul said...: Today is the first day that I have been brought to tears and I just don't mean watery eyes but sobbing tears as people were dragged out on their hands and knees...

Watching the police with their riot gear and their canine units the only thing I was left wondering is where the hoses were.

Anonymous Democrat speaking right now.; 3/10/11, 3:02 PM
gloogle said...: "And there shall be wailing, and the gnashing of teeth..."; 3/10/11, 3:02 PM
Fred4Pres said...: Yes! Great!

Of course, we are still in deep deep trouble.

We cannot tax our way out of this hole. We cannot grow our way out economically. We cannot use demographics to work our way out over time (in fact, we're barely maintaining a replacement rate of reproduction as it is, and most of that reproducing is among the least productive of our citizenry).

We cannot vote the problem away. The only solution that would really work -- draconian cuts to entitlement programs and a serious effort to pay down the national debt -- would require a level of austerity that few Americans have the stomach for. This means that a political solution to this problem is also pretty much impossible. There is no political solution to this dilemma because neither the citizens nor the politicians are willing to do what is necessary. (Nor is it simply a Democrat/GOP divide. As we have all seen in the Social Security threads I and others have posted, even many conservatives bristle when faced with cuts to their own programs.)

Example: all liberals, and even many conservatives, quail at the harshness of the so-called "Ryan Roadmap", and insist that it's not "politically doable". Well, guess what? The Ryan roadmap is the best attempt by a politician I've seen so far at solving this problem -- and it barely scratches the surface. Even if every single one of its reforms were adopted right now, it probably would take decades for us to get back on an even fiscal keel. And I don't think we have that kind of time.

But we can celebrate since the road to wellness starts with first steps.; 3/10/11, 3:02 PM
Chris said...: It's all over except for the "America is a police state/worst country in the world/genocide of the working class!" rants. Those will be going on for quite some time. Like, forever.; 3/10/11, 3:03 PM
kent said...: [...] the only thing I was left wondering is where the hoses were.

"Mr. Sullivan! PLEASE!"; 3/10/11, 3:04 PM
Unknown said...: As Sancho and Shoemaker remind, us, the Lefties never quit. They subscribe to the philosophy of Senator Blutarsky, "Nothing is over unless WE say it's over".

This is why somebody told us eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.; 3/10/11, 3:05 PM
gloogle said...: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."; 3/10/11, 3:05 PM
Chennaul said...: Mr. Sullivan! PLEASE!"

LOL!

I lost the audio right after that-can't get the damn thing to load.

It was really.really.bad.; 3/10/11, 3:12 PM
Scott said...: What's passed? No is reporting that the bill has passed.; 3/10/11, 3:12 PM
Chennaul said...: Sofa King are you listening to it somewhere else?; 3/10/11, 3:13 PM
Sofa King said...: Wisconsin Eye. I have better luck when I use the "listen" link (no video), though it still drops every several minutes.; 3/10/11, 3:15 PM
Chennaul said...: I never had any luck with the vid and now the audio won't load....

Hmmm I wonder if a WI radio station like a local PBS station has got it.; 3/10/11, 3:21 PM
chickelit said...: Passed!

Mist!; 3/10/11, 3:26 PM
Cindy Martin said...: The protests will have to die down??

Not if Jesse, Moore, and the union thugs have anything to do about it.

this is ground zero. They will not give up that easily.; 3/10/11, 3:31 PM
LifeoftheMind said...: This is not the time to wrap up and take a vacation in the hope that the ill will may just blow over. They should pass serious reforms now such as defining job abandonment for legislators who depart the state to obstruct a vote.; 3/10/11, 3:33 PM
Robert Cook said...: "DEMOCRACY!!!!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS -- !!!"

Said Winston Smith; 3/10/11, 3:34 PM
kent said...: Said Winston Smith

This is what intellectual incoherence looks like.; 3/10/11, 3:37 PM
Roger J. said...: Ohio, Wisconsin and soon Tennessee

and no KY jelly when the states shove it up the union's ass.

we won MoFos--deal with it.; 3/10/11, 3:39 PM
Lincolntf said...: I'm with the anonymous Democrat.
Where ARE the friggin' hoses?; 3/10/11, 3:40 PM
Anonymous said...: This is what intellectual incoherence looks like.

Cookie reads, but does not understand.; 3/10/11, 3:41 PM
Roger J. said...: Mr Cook--pray tell how democracy was not served by a duly elected legislature and a duly elected governor passing legislation?

In what way does this differ from the Obamhealth care legislation passed by the US congress?

I am confused and am sure you can enlighten me.; 3/10/11, 3:42 PM
Sofa King said...: and no KY jelly

What is this Kentucky jelly people keep talking about? Some kind of jam or preserves? Does it contain a secret blend of 11 herbs and spices?; 3/10/11, 3:43 PM
Roger J. said...: The actions of the rabble storming the statehouse are precisely why the the founders rejected pure democracy in favor of a representative republic--See for example Aristotle's arguments. Still relevent today.; 3/10/11, 3:45 PM
Lincolntf said...: "KY jelly" is a John Calipari defense, isn't it?; 3/10/11, 3:45 PM
Sofa King said...: Ok, NOW it's passed.; 3/10/11, 3:45 PM
Roger J. said...: Sofa King--KY Jelly is actually flavored with good KY bourbon (I understand its Woodford Reserve); 3/10/11, 3:46 PM
lemondog said...: Commentators say bill has passed.

video; 3/10/11, 3:47 PM
James said...: 53-42....some Republicans voted with the Democrats.; 3/10/11, 3:49 PM
Roger J. said...: When the country voted for hope and change they certainly got more than they thought--State houses across the country turned red and are in fact inacting changes--For those that say Mr Obama is the wheres waldo president, he has done a banner job in screwing democrats. Thanks Barack; 3/10/11, 3:51 PM
Phil 314 said...: Gentlemen, start your lawyers!; 3/10/11, 3:52 PM
Anonymous said...: "In what way does this differ from the Obamhealth care legislation passed by the US congress?"

That's a very good question. I'd like to see the answer, too, especially in view of the fact that the Senate Dems chose to use a parliamentary maneuver that violated Senate rules in order to cut off debate and pass ObamaCare by a simple majority vote. Democrats have no claim to the moral high ground when it comes to their complaints that the other side is "ramming" legislation through a vote in the WI legislature.; 3/10/11, 3:57 PM
lemondog said...: White House: Wisconsin vote 'vilifies' public workers

Thus spake the WH; 3/10/11, 4:01 PM
Calypso Facto said...: "In what way does this differ from the Obamhealth care legislation passed by the US congress?"

See this for an accurate/amusing comparison of the legislative procedures in question.

h/t Cato; 3/10/11, 4:01 PM
ricpic said...: Walker just saved the dumkopfs' jobs for them.; 3/10/11, 4:07 PM
Roger J. said...: Mr Cook? in what way does what the duly elected Wisconsin legislators/executive action differ from how the Democrats, all duly elected, push Obama care thru the process?

Mr Cook? bueller? Anybody?

Your Winston Smith allusion was pathetic--surely you can do better; 3/10/11, 4:13 PM
Meade said...: Free at last!; 3/10/11, 4:15 PM
Roger J. said...: Meade: Bravo Zulu

well done; 3/10/11, 4:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Meade said...

"Free at last!"

Not quite, to get maximum use of all the new video equipment and such, it's on to Ohio!

Tennessee!

New York!

California!

ALL 57 STATES!; 3/10/11, 4:20 PM
KCFleming said...: "surely you can do better "

Actually, that's some of his best work ever.; 3/10/11, 4:21 PM
M. Simon said...: limp on stage

It is not the kind of show I was expecting.; 3/10/11, 4:27 PM
M. Simon said...: - avilify -

WV: abila - fookin mind readers anyway. Shortage of tin foil in aisle three.; 3/10/11, 4:31 PM
Calypso Facto said...: Yes, indeed. Very nicely done, thank you, Meadehouse! It's been great having the best event coverage right on my computer.; 3/10/11, 4:34 PM
Leland said...: Not quite, to get maximum use of all the new video equipment and such, it's on to Ohio!

Tennessee!

New York!

California!

ALL 57 STATES!

YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGG!; 3/10/11, 4:35 PM
Alex said...: The latest meme is "Walker didn't campaign on union busting, thus we Democrats can subvert the election".; 3/10/11, 4:50 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Mr Cook? in what way does what the duly elected Wisconsin legislators/executive action differ from how the Democrats, all duly elected, push Obama care thru the process?

Mr Cook? bueller? Anybody?"

I made no allusions to the process by which the execrable ObamaRomneyCare Bill was passed. If you think it is identical to what happened in Wisconsin, you are welcome to elaborate. I may even agree with you.

But you've missed my point. Many undemocratic acts are effected through "democratic" means. I was alluding less to the means than to the end. We, as citizens remain free to discern when we're being fucked and when we're being made love to, those of us who are able. Winston Smith was unable to see the difference as he was made to love his oppressor, to see his rapist as his beloved.; 3/10/11, 4:52 PM
Alex said...: Cook obviously failed to read 1984 all the way through. He might have missed the 50 pages of torture that O'Brien put him through. Any of us would be so thoroughly broken by then and love Big Brother.

Cook - are you saying Walker is O'Brien?; 3/10/11, 4:55 PM
David said...: It will have to wind down.

Thank you Professor Antoinette.

There are organized groups calling for all Wisconsin high school students to leave class at 2 PM Friday. (Tough sell, eh?) Also pushing a newer, bigger march on Madison.

The revolution is permanent (or until Spring Break.)

Who knows what will happen? I don't.; 3/10/11, 5:00 PM
Anonymous said...: I'll be curious to see when the next election in WI rolls around how many faux Cheeseheads-for-a-day the Dems manage to bus in to vote illegally in Madison, something my mother-in-law once told me is a long-standing tradition in WI. Whether it's only a myth, I don't know. Perhaps those of you who live in the Badger State can tell me if it's true or just an old mother-in-law's tale.; 3/10/11, 5:11 PM
Robert Cook said...: "He might have missed the 50 pages of torture that O'Brien put him through. Any of us would be so thoroughly broken by then and love Big Brother."

Do you think those we have tortured have learned to love us?

You're being too literal-minded. Again, it's not about the means but the ends. The point of Winston Smith's ordeal was not the means by which he came to love Big Brother, but the end...that he came to love Big Brother.

Americans more and more are coming to love Big Brother, and they see in his opponents a cadre of Emmanuel Goldsteins.

As one dope said the other day on one of the Althouse comments sections, referring to the teachers protesting the evisceration of their collective bargaining rights, "These poor saps really think they're fighting the Man, when they are the Man." Oy!

That commenter is also Winston Smith, and the means by which we come to see our oppressors as beloved to us (and those who oppose our oppressors as the enemy) is doublethink. As O'Brien says, it's not about forcing Winston to mouth his allegiance to Big Brother through force, but about getting Winston to truly and sincerely love Big Brother.

And so it is more and more today in America.; 3/10/11, 5:20 PM
Bob Loblaw said...: I had no idea that so many of you were Wisconsinites.

How many of the protesters are Wisconsinites?; 3/10/11, 5:22 PM
Alex said...: Cook - yeah the severe physical torture Winston Smith was put through was just symbolism & allegory for what the GOP is doing to the "working families". Uh huh.; 3/10/11, 5:24 PM
Roger J. said...: Mr Cook writes: "Many undemocratic acts are effected through "democratic" means." Given the lack of detail of your argument other than a reference to Winston Smith, its difficult to engage your point. I would gather than you feel what the Wisconsin legislature did was some how "undemocratic?" Undemocratic in what way, sir? Because it removes collective bargaining rights from public sector unions?

While you may not like the processes that led to Obamacare or to the Wisconsin action, I would suggest those were in fact democratic--and, of course, that is the peril of democracy (or representative government)--And what would be the alternative? Plato's guardians? The elite that knows what is best for us? You simply dont like the outcome. you dont like the end and will apparently throw out the process--What is your alternative?

It seems you have a problem with democracy-- a system that may produce outcomes you deem as undemocratic--fine but it does seem to me you are simply imposing your belief system in place of what many more people might prefer.
If I have misunderstood you my apologies--I will welcome your clarification.; 3/10/11, 5:25 PM
Toad Trend said...: Hey Mr. Meade (Ann too), thanks for sticking your necks out for us here blog lurkers.

It is a refreshing look from a unique perspective - first person in a sense.

Sure beats talking heads telling you what they think/what you should think.

Bring on the Pulitzer.

wv - incess

Where Meade often found himself.; 3/10/11, 5:34 PM
Unknown said...: I'll be curious to see when the next election in WI rolls around how many faux Cheeseheads-for-a-day the Dems manage to bus in to vote illegally in Madison, something my mother-in-law once told me is a long-standing tradition in WI....

Probably true. That's why our next big bill is VoterID and other election reform.; 3/10/11, 5:35 PM
Anonymous said...: I admire Meade's optimism, but this is not over. The left will do to this what they did to Prop 8.; 3/10/11, 5:43 PM
Unknown said...: Cook forgets the people he admires so don't believe in republican government; they talk about democracy in places they want to rule until they rule there.

Then it's gulags and midnight executions.; 3/10/11, 5:48 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Cook - yeah the severe physical torture Winston Smith was put through was just symbolism & allegory for what the GOP is doing to the 'working families'. Uh huh."

Um, no. But Winston's love of Big Brother is similar to working Americans cheering on the bankers and warmongers who are bankrupting them and our country.; 3/10/11, 6:13 PM
orbicularioculi said...: Dear Senator/s Fleebagger/s, the police are awaiting your return to do your job in Wisconsin.

Once one of the absent Fleebaggers is taken to the Senate in handcuffs the Republican Senate can vote and the budget can be passed.

Elections have consequences, liberals! Now we KNOW how unionized public servants view the taxpayers.; 3/10/11, 6:46 PM
Roger J. said...: Mr Cook--care to engage my point above? Most of us, I presume, have read 1984. can we move on?; 3/10/11, 7:07 PM
DADvocate said...: I have mentioned it personally, but superb job of coverage by Ann and Meade of a bell weather event.; 3/10/11, 7:51 PM
Robert Cook said...: Roger J.

I suppose one can say that any acts effected through purportedly democratic means are, by definition, "democratic." This ignores cases where one might argue that dirty tricks (or skillful politicking, according to one's P.O.V.) were utilized to prevent full and fair votes, or where lies and propaganda were utilized to influence vote results, (as in the lies told to compel approval to attack Iraq), or where votes were cast to serve the agenda of powerful financial or political special interest groups or as expressions of repressive and ingrained social biases, rather to serve the citizenry, etc. But again, one can argue these are all features and dangers of "democracy," and so the results must, by definition, be "democratic."

I won't argue the point. However, when "democratic" processes produce results that are inimical to the benefit of the citizenry, one would expect the citizenry to object.

When many among the citizenry pump their fists and shout "Boo-yah!" or "DEMOCRACY---YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! for the passage of laws that reduce the capacity of citizens to advocate effectively (or at all) for their own benefit, (as in the erasure of collective bargaining rights for union members); or for laws that proscribe to some citizens rights enjoyed by others, (e.g., laws against gay marriage or prohibiting suffrage for women and minorities, or delimiting use of public spaces by blacks or other minorities); or for laws that are punitively discriminatory against certain segments of the population, (e.g., internment of Japanese citizens in prison camps in WWII and the impoundment of their property); or for policies that result in financial burdens on working citizens while exempting the wealthy from those burdens, (e.g., the many Americans evicted from foreclosed homes while the bankers who were the cause of the housing bubble and the financial collapse continue with no impediments placed on their behavior, who face no criminal investigations, who continue to expect--and recieve--annual bonuses that are greater than most of us will earn in our entire working lives, or where talk of cuts to Social Security and Medicare is received without great public outrage and accepted as "necessary," while talk of minimal tax increases on the wealthy is received with outrage by the not-wealthy); when citizens cheer the greater intrusion of police power into their lives, scorning college students and old women who are tasered by cops as having "deserved what they got" and who applaud the use of torture as standard procedure; in sum, when citizens cheer the destruction of that which has protected them from the arbitrary power of the powerful in the boardrooms and staterooms, one must conclude we are becoming a nation of Winston Smiths: we have come to love those who prey upon us.; 3/11/11, 9:25 AM
Robert Cook said...: I'll acknowledge that I obviously used examples of instances from our past where the state harmed large segments of the citizenry with the enthusiastic approval of other segments of the citizenry, but my point holds: democratic means may--and have--and will--bring about limits on our individual freedoms: when we permit the hindrance of equal liberty for some citizens, we invite the inevitable removal of individual liberties for all citizens.

To the degree in our past, present, or future where we have supported or will support oppression of some among us, we support our own future oppression.; 3/11/11, 9:38 AM
Robert Cook said...: http://www.counterpunch.com/

WISCONSIN DEATH TRIP by
Michael Hudson and Jeffrey Sommers

On Wednesday evening, in a veritable Night of the Long Knives, Wisconsin's integrity was brutally murdered on the floor of the state Capitol in Madison. On 9 March, integrity and trust built up over a century was obliterated as Wisconsin state senators quickly reversed course and cleaved its budget "repair bill" in half. Financial items require a quorum, thus, collective bargaining was split off from the budget repair bill and voted on separately so as to permit its being voted on now. Even so, this still broke the state's open meeting law requiring 24 hours' notice to ensure transparency. Instead, the Wisconsin senate Republicans pulled out this new legislation without advance notice and began voting, leaving only a stunned Democratic legislator, Peter Barca, to read the open meeting law out loud to prevent the senators from voting. The senate voted over his objections anyway.

(The article continues.)

"DEMOCRACY!!!!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS -- !!!"; 3/11/11, 10:20 AM