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106 comments:
Just look at Ben Masel. I rest my case.
Soon the latest Girl Scout Cookies will be worth buying...for medical reasons of course.
Attention Deficit Disorder=I can't pay attention. That shit totally did not work on adults in my day.
Bleh!!!!!!
Well, seeing as how many of your libertarian commenters argued a few months ago that marijuana is not only perfectly healthy, but is actually part of a good breakfast (vitamin M, I think they called it), I'm sure they'll demonstrate principled consistency and support marijuana for children.
"Well, seeing as how many of your libertarian commenters argued a few months ago that marijuana is not only perfectly healthy, but is actually part of a good breakfast (vitamin M, I think they called it), I'm sure they'll demonstrate principled consistency and support marijuana for children."
Zing!
how about medical mj for kids to take the edge off the ritalin and adderal?
Can it be any worse than the standard treatment, Ritalin?
I'm thinking a machine that gently puffs marijuana smoke into a crib would certainly be popular among parents who can't get any sleep due to the baby crying.
But.....it's for the children!! A gift from gaia!
I'm pretty sure I smoked reefers with some ADHD boys, and it really didn't help them.
Of course, this was before we had fancy titles like ADHD. We just thought they couldn't read very well.
w/v: ablimbow - how does it know??
Ann, you heartless bitch.
These kids have a disorder, don't you know? This is why we need Obamacare. So these poor defenseless children can get their blunts without having to run your Tea Party gauntlet of hate.
If it were left up to you conservatives (pfthth), thse poor kids would have to go through life with a disorder - neigh even a "syndrome."
It's a good thing Barack "Cocaine Snorter" Obama and the rest of the dopeheads are now in charge of health care in this country.
I've had experiences with enough long-term pot users that I am quite certain that those children are in for a screwed up lifetime.
Medical marijuanists are the new chiropractors. They cure everything.
At least chiropracty devolves into physical therapy.
The homeopathists are doomed.
I'm thinking a machine that gently puffs marijuana smoke into a crib would certainly be popular among parents who can't get any sleep due to the baby crying.
In the 19th century they just gave them gin.
Actually my "Baby Smoke to Sleep" machine is needed now more than ever since they took all the good cough syrups off the shelves.
"In the 19th century they just gave them gin."
Thus the tasty Slow Gin Fizz was born.
Can it be any worse than the standard treatment, Ritalin?
While there may be some children genuinely hindrered by cognitive disorders of one kind or another, and to varying degrees, I think too many children "diagnosed" as suffering from ADD or ADHD are probably not cognitavely abnormal or hindered at all, but are simply statistically normal variants from what is considered to be the ideal student: docile and compliant...in short, well-behaved.
You act like they'll stop now that the cat's out of the bag under false pretenses. They won't. pot for kids. sex for kids.
Anything but letting kids be kids.
So there is at least one doctor who takes an extremely liberal view of medical marijuana in this giant, diverse country of ours?
And that's news? That's interesting?
I think this is NYT linkbait; otherwise, it's a crap piece. Gotta get the clicks to sign up for the new paywall, I guess.
Hell, forget MJ; get the kids off antibiotics. MSRA is bad stuff, and there will be more stuff like it because instead of letting nature heal minor problems; idiots jump to pharmaceutical solutions.
If their doctors have prescribed it, what's the problem?
Wouldn't those candies just make you hungry for more candy? Seems like a good marketing strategy.
Revenant said: "If their doctors have prescribed it, what's the problem?"
Well, at least you're consistent, Revenant.
Maybe I'm too distrustful, but I think if my doctor prescribed an Everclear enema for my toddler, I wouldn't hold him down while he administered it.
But that's me.
And if he wrote out instructions for my seven-year-old to lick toads until "he saw all kinds of cool colors, maaannn" -- I wouldn't be out crawling around in the landscaping looking for bufo americanus.
I swear, these pot-heads will insist that this shit is added to breakfast cereal, just to force it into the mainstream of society. Because their brains have been hijacked by chemicals.
Plus, if you're taking "medication" for ADHD you can get on SSI!
http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/adhd-attention-deficit-social-security-disability.html
Who says hippies are stupid...
That would be awesome to calm down my thirteen-year-old! Teachers would love it.
So...do they put other "medicines" for children in cookies and rock candy, Rev?
Why do you suppose they do that with this one?
I can understand the left's support for this sort of shit. This is what they've been working toward since the 30s. The left dreams of a society of pot-heads, laying around in their own filth; no ambition, no aggression, complete dependence on the government for their drugs and Fritos.
But from the right, even the fruity Ron-Paul unsightly growth on the ass of the right...I just don't get it.
Whether MM is worse than Adderall and Ritalin, I can't say. But what I do know is that those who propose MM for ADD are engaging in sloppy thinking just as those who advocate for psychopharmaceuticals, and they're just about the dollars, too. No difference.
Not everyone "on the left" feels like these people do. Not at all. There's a great book, Teaching the Restless. The author refers to the kids (mostly boys BTW) as high energy. Much better than ADD in my opinion.
John Roseland, author of the pretty good Parent Power, on the other hand, is conservative (and practical) and believes psychopharmaceuticals can be used on children.
While there may be some children genuinely hindrered by cognitive disorders of one kind or another, and to varying degrees, I think too many children "diagnosed" as suffering from ADD or ADHD are probably not cognitavely abnormal or hindered at all, but are simply statistically normal variants from what is considered to be the ideal student: docile and compliant...in short, well-behaved.
my son was diagnosed with ADHD after much resistance from my wife and i. it was only after his first grade teacher asked us to observe dustin in the classroom that we finally agreed with the diagnosis.
dustin positively vibrated in class: the very definition of ants in his pants.
and he ended up on ritalin. it is counter-intuitive as hell; give some hyperactive kids a form of speed and they calm right down. there is an old military adage of which i am very fond, which goes "if it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid".
in my son's case, the ritalin, as prescribed by his harvard medical school doctor, worked. i agree that the ADHD diagnosis and the concomitant ritalin prescription are most likely far to common, but there are a class of children where it is valid.
my son, bless his heart, is one of them, and he lives with his condition every single day.
Robert Cook said...
Can it be any worse than the standard treatment, Ritalin?
While there may be some children genuinely hindrered by cognitive disorders of one kind or another, and to varying degrees, I think too many children "diagnosed" as suffering from ADD or ADHD are probably not cognitavely abnormal or hindered at all, but are simply statistically normal variants from what is considered to be the ideal student: docile and compliant...in short, well-behaved.
All right, Lord, you can take me now! I've seen it all!!
Cook and I finally agree on something.
ADD exists so union teachers who don't want to do their jobs can dope the kids up and shut them up legally.
Maybe I'm too distrustful, but I think if my doctor prescribed an Everclear enema for my toddler, I wouldn't hold him down while he administered it.
Considering that doing to would be fatal to the toddler in question I would have to agree.
But that's not really relevant to this discussion, now, is it. :)
swear, these pot-heads will insist that this shit is added to breakfast cereal, just to force it into the mainstream of society.
Have we already reached the part of the argument where you start throwing ad hominems and beating the shit out of straw men? I think this might be a new speed record for you, Pasta.
So...do they put other "medicines" for children in cookies and rock candy, Rev?
Pharmacists have been making medicine palatable to children by adding sugar and fruit/candy flavoring to it for centuries. At the pharmacy near my house they have a menu of available flavorings for children's medicine, including cherry, grape, berry, cotton candy, and lemonade. Just ask and the pharmacist will be happy to add it to your prescription.
Then of course there is the OTC drug market, where just about every single medicine marketed for children comes with flavoring to make it tastier. But I'm sure it is all just a big conspiracy by THE MAN to get kids hooked on cough syrup.
Now, *some* people -- we call them "potheads whose brains have been hijacked" -- might say that people add fruit or candy flavors to kid's medicine because most medicine tastes disgusting by itself. But such people shouldn't be listened to, because we know there's really a nefarious motive for it. :)
I'm sure they'll demonstrate principled consistency and support marijuana for children.
I couldn't care less what or whom adults put into their own bodies. But thinking that drugs and prostitution should be legal does not mean I think children should participate in these activities.
A boomer co-worker was prescribed methamphetamine back in the day. It did allow him to focus in school, but...
Why has pot become the new snake oil cure-all? Oh wait...
It isn't a "cure-all", Methadras. It is, however, a basically non-toxic drug with demonstrated medical benefits.
As noted in the article, it requires parental approval for children to get access. If the parents think it is the right choice, and the doctor thinks it is the right choice, and the child thinks it is the right choice... er, what exactly is the "conservative" principle under which the state is sticking its nose into this, again?
Some kids diagnosed with ADHD might just be young for their grade. The youngest kids in the grade are twice as likely to be diagnosed as the oldest.
The combination of ADHD and autism may be related to bullying behavior.
er, what exactly is the "conservative" principle under which the state is sticking its nose into this, again?
@Revenant
The principle is law and order.
"pot for kids. sex for kids. Anything but letting kids be kids."
Look, let's just get it out in the open: they want to fuck the kids.
And it's easier if the kids are stoned. It overcomes the barriers to entry and then they can always claim that the kid was too high to be able to testify later on if the parents find out.
Sex and drugs go hand-in-hand with this pedo crowd.
Well, if screaming whining children can refuse to do their work and then run away to Illinois instead of voting like they were supposed to, I don't see why they shouldn't have some pot.
The principle is law and order.
If the principle was law and order, conservative opposition would have declined after medical marijuana was legalized in the state. It hasn't, which tells you that the actual motive is something else.
I guess you could justify it under the conservative principle that the federal government has an intrinsic right to regulate private medical decisions. That wasn't a conservative principle I heard about very much during the ObamaCare debate, though. :)
Marijuana? For ADD?? What, is that homeopathic "Law of Similars" there i.e. peppers and hot substances for fevers, that sort of thing? Because unless you subscribe to the "theory" that "like cures like", I don't really see pot alleviating attention deficit issues!
Quote: "At the Peace in Medicine Healing Center in Sebastopol..."
Well hell, there's the problem right there! Someone explain to me what "Peace in Medical Healing" is supposed to indicate besides Moonbattery pseudoscience? What the NYTimes should've done is double-check the credentials of that Dr. Jean Talleyrand, not simply gone out and found an "opposing view" in that UC Berkeley person. Pitching things that way makes it appear as though there's legitimate general debate on the issue.
"However, Dr. Hallowell said he discourages his patients from using it, both because it is — mostly — illegal, and because his observations show that “it can lead to a syndrome in which all the person wants to do all day is get stoned, and they do nothing else.”''
Yeah, no shit, Sherlock.
This just makes me lol. What a lame pretense pot has become and look at those THC levels. Holy smokes, Batman.
http://www.organicann.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=152
WV = Blunt = not kidding LOL!!!
Right. Surely amphetamines like Ritalin are better. Sounds like a meth-addicted red state typical bias.
Anyways, Dr. Drew Pinsky disagrees. But what does he know!?!? It's not like he's a lawyer or anything! Just a measly physician.
They should revoke that addiction medicine specialization credential of his and exchange it for credentialing in social ostracism and the uses of stigma, which is much more medicalistic and stuff.
Here's the extra special local news version, with transcript. But what do localities know when there's a big awesome federal policy that knows so much better?
You go, Ann! Get on that big government bandwagon you're so enamored of! Fuck local control (and medical autonomy). Ann has a bias to confirm and what better use of the federal government than to reinforce her idea of life and how things should be?
Because unless you subscribe to the "theory" that "like cures like", I don't really see pot alleviating attention deficit issues!
Good point. What'll they expect us to believe next -- that hyperactivity can be treated by giving kids stimulants? Hah! Who'd be foolish enough to believe *that*?
Anyway.
There is fairly strong evidence that ADHD is caused by a lack of dopamine in certain parts of the brain. Ritalin is a stimulant, and (as with many stimulants) triggers the release of dopamine by the brain. THC, the psychoactive chemical in marijuana, also stimulates the release of dopamine (that's why it 'feels good' to use it). So it is in no way crazy to think it might help with ADHD.
“it can lead to a syndrome in which all the person wants to do all day is get stoned, and they do nothing else.”''
Well...yeah....that's a feature not a fault!
w/v grockr: A Heinlein fan
Another issue with ADHD, and especially LATE diagnosis of ADHD, is that it's often standing in for depression.
My daughter is actually ADHD--it was obvious from a very young age.
When teaching, I came across a fair number of kids who were LATE ADHD diagnosis 7,8,9 grade, when symptoms are usually getting LESS obvious in the truly ADHD.
They 'suddenly' developed an inability to behave, sit, pay attention and sleep.....when their parents divorced.
But it's NOT Ok to say that kids might be depressed at the breakup of their families! After all, happy, fufilled parents make happy kids, right! So they were ADHD instead.....
Pot might help this sort of 'ADHD' kid--- lots of teens become stoners because they're depressed........
But for the true ADHD? If Ritalin is too strong (personally, I'm against it) try a cup of earl grey or even esspresso every 2 hours! Not many side effects and it really helps them focus. (says Mrs. Self-medicate-with-coffee.....)
look at those THC levels.
Is there something in particular we should be looking for?
Basically, if hippies had anything to do with it, it can't have a legitimate medical purpose and is just being used as a way for the communists to take over America.
That's how I see it.
Revenant said...
look at those THC levels.
Is there something in particular we should be looking for?
I just remember when I was younger, THC potency levels were a lot lower. Around the 2% - 4% range. Now they are in the high teens in certain instances. I just did not expect to see that.
@C4
"...and is just being used as a way for the communists to take over America."
Having a bad day C4?\
wv - parth
What parth don't you underthtand?
"...and because his observations show that “it can lead to a syndrome in which all the person wants to do all day is get stoned, and they do nothing else."
Here's one way to say it.
Any day an idiot confuses his opinion on hippies with medical science is a bad day.
But other than that, things are peachy! How about you, Don't Tread?
How much cocaine did Charlie Sheen do?
Enough to kill two and a half men.
@Lem
I enjoyed your 80's reprise you staged at one of the threads recently.
In particular, your selection of one of the more interesting bands jogged my memory to share this classic footage - I saw this band in the early 80's playing at the Univ. of Buffalo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFfJ0h6W0Fw
Lem - good one - thanks for posting that.
WV: threadem - if they can't take a joke.
It is so wrong on so many levels to give kids marijuana under the auspices of "medicine." It slows the brain to an ugly standstill. I am appalled.
Cocaine is a far superior choice. It stimulates the mind incredibly. It makes colors brighter, life happier, and brings a vitality to the most mundane events, such as listening to droning teachers or doing math problems.
Why would anyone reject this common sense solution in favor of an illegal drug like marijuana?
@C4
"Any day an idiot confuses his opinion on hippies with medical science is a bad day.
But other than that, things are peachy!"
Well, I'm glad you've got that worked out.
What's your take on ADD/ADHD and its diagnosis in children?
Now they are in the high teens in certain instances. I just did not expect to see that.
It isn't a new development; there have always been strains (e.g. sinsemilla) with concentrations in the teens.
For once, I agree with Cook, but possibly for different reasons.
I pretty sure "better living through chemistry" doesn't apply to the pre-pubescent set, at least when it comes to kids who aren't actively schizophrenic.
Ritalin and Adderall are among the most studied and safest prescription drugs out there.
I can respect Revenant's focus on the science, but I don't get the opinion that all the doctors in the article are prescribing cannabis based on extensive medical literature.
Some sound like holistics and homeopathists, catering to the nature-over-science crowd.
That would worry me.
Ritalin and Adderall are among the most studied and safest prescription drugs out there.
Yeah, sure, if you like to feel hollowed out and soulless. They're totally safe. Totally great.
I'd love to answer your very serious question, DT, but my nightly allotment of Althouse has run out and right now I'm having more fun watching YouTube videos of conspiracy theorists of a different sort, like these guys.
But I did enjoy your group's informed rants on how "The hippies are ruining the pediatric amphetamine industry". That was fun. Good times. I'm sure there will be many more like that in store for us in the future. ;-)
@Seven Machos -- Been listening to Henry Rollins again?
(Not to be too obscure -- one of his spoken word performances is about his years on Ritalin.)
Ritalin and Adderall are among the most studied and safest prescription drugs out there.
Define "safest". For example, the number of overdose deaths from Ritalin quite dramatically exceeds the number from marijuana, despite use of the latter being both more common and less supervised.
@C4
"I'd love to answer your very serious question, DT, but my nightly allotment of Althouse has run out..."
How very conciliatory of you.
BTW if you're looking for any advice with regard to videos 'not to watch', stay away from the silly ones you shared.
Toodles!
Another classic in the annals of "city council guests gone wild"
Henry -- Adderall is great for focusing on something you need to get done. Just like cocaine is great for feeling totally fucking awesome for about an hour.
The trouble is in the long term. Adderall makes you a shell of yourself -- not quite there, and a little less of a human. Cocaine makes you Charlie Sheen.
Marijuana makes you Ritmo.
@C4
A 'spineless head of dead lettuce' ???
Pot - Is there anything it can't do?
Sixteen Candles reveals his home-grown ADHD treatments and other illicit preferences.
Gosh, Ritmo. I didn't realize that people would know that I have tried drugs before. You sure are a dynamo when it comes to inferences.
Revenant -- Cite?
Thank you, Sixteen. Thank you.
Everyone knows that medical marijuana is a total sham, and that "doctors" set up shop to administer marijuana for largely bogus ailments, and we all know about the college kids going to the 'clinic' to get their 'medicine' for their 'glaucoma'.
What I want to track are the people who stood for this bogus usage of the medical community to peddle illegal drugs who also thought that the doctors giving out notes to the protesters were abusing their status as doctors.
I call you hypocrites. (and this is not to say that the doctors at the recent protest weren't abusing their office, only that there's a lot of guilt to go around.
Heh. Sebastopol. Now there's a shock.
Everyone knows that medical marijuana is a total sham, and that "doctors" set up shop to administer marijuana for largely bogus ailments, and we all know about the college kids going to the 'clinic' to get their 'medicine' for their 'glaucoma'.
Yes, and? There are people with serious, legitimate illnesses that respond well to marijuana. The fact that some people will use it recreationally is meaningless. It's harmless.
Henry,
I checked when I got home and I had misremembered; Ritalin hasn't been clearly linked to any significant number of deaths. It seems unlikely that it would be, with a therapeutic ratio of 680 (i.e., it takes 680 times the effective dose to kill you). There is some evidence of a link to heart problems in children, which wouldn't be too surprising given that Ritalin is a close chemical relative of amphetamines and cocaine. Ritalin-related deaths generally stem from it being mixed with other drugs, though.
Anyway, the therapeutic ratio of THC is in excess of 1000. How much in excess is unknown as nobody's died from an overdose yet.
In summary: yes, Ritalin appears to be pretty safe, although not as safe as THC.
Everyone knows that medical marijuana is a total sham
In decreasing order of credibility:
1. "My mom told me that..."
2. "Everyone knows that..."
3. "This dude at the bar said that..."
Revenant said...
Anyway, the therapeutic ratio of THC is in excess of 1000. How much in excess is unknown as nobody's died from an overdose yet.
That's just because they would fall asleep from either smoking to much or eating so much they pass out.
That's just because they would fall asleep from either smoking to much or eating so much they pass out.
All joking aside -- yep, pretty much.
Children need to learn how to interface with the real world without pharmaceutical assistance.
Is this a hard concept?
Is this a hard concept?
I'm not sure. When your son comes down with strep throat, do you
(a): Take him to the doctor for antibiotics, or
(b): Tell him he'll have to learn how to deal with those kinds of problems the natural way instead of resorting to pharmaceutical assistance
If (a) then the answer to your question is, apparently, "yes".
Seven,
Pot does makes you stupid! ...
... in the short run. And with respect to certain abilities more than others. Some dosages that facilitate 'groove' functioning (playing music, playing ping-pong) will hinder analytic functioning that relies heavily on short term memory (playing bridge).
The "Dave's not here man!" stereotype would not be funny if it were not true!
But with low-dosage recreational use this hindrance is not prominent, and with (possibly) therapeutic micro-doses it might not present at all.
My own decades-ago experiments with pot included micro-dosing on the order of 1/32 to 1/64 of a typical recreational dose. (These doses made my short story reading assignments come alive for me. Recreational dosages would have me rereading the same sentence over and over. The stupidity really is dose sensitive.)
My diagnosing physician told me that he suspected I was self-medicating for undiagnosed ADD at the time. He may well be right.
If pot was legal, I would be keen to re-explore this. Perhaps there are varieties of pot which would allow titration to therapeutic dosages.
But I suspect the best drug for ADD currently out there is cocaine -- taken slowly by infusion, without the addiction inducing rush that comes from smoking. If I ever visit the Andes, I would like to get some of the locals to show me how to chew coca leaf.
Lewsar,
I'm glad ritalin is working for your son. It does not help everyone, but for some of whom it helps, it helps a lot.
Apropos this, and apropos your avatar picture, I invite you to take a look atwhat some have called "The Saddest Calvin and Hobbes"
It is a retouched strip that is as beautiful as it is heart-breaking.
But I have always thought that the story in this retouched strip did not end in the fourth panel.
That in the panels to follow, Calvin is revealed to be Watterson's Author Avatar; that the tremendous imagination Calvin spent on investing Hobbes with life continues; that Calvin's pills have gave given him the ability to channel and refine this imagination into doodles, into the beginnings of the Calvin and Hobbes strip itself. It has allowed him to share this imagination with the world.
That this sad retouched four-panel strip is not the end of Calvin and Hobbes, but it's very beginning.
"I can understand the left's support for this sort of shit. This is what they've been working toward since the 30s. The left dreams of a society of pot-heads, laying around in their own filth; no ambition, no aggression, complete dependence on the government for their drugs and Fritos."
Sounds to me like you're ranting about one of your pet delusions.
Lewsar,
Don't misunderstand me, please. I certainly am convinced that there are children who actually have cognitivie disorders, including ADD and ADHD, and that Ritalin and other standard treatments can be and are helpful to these children. Those children and their families are very fortunate that treatments are available.
However, I also think it too easy to misperceive children as suffering from such maladies when other factors are at work, including simply boredom, excess energy, and what have you. I have a family member whose wife is all too quick to diagnose herself and her own children as having ADHD, yet she has never had actual medical confirmation of this...either she's secretly fearful she's wrong, or perhaps she has tried to get such diagnoses and no doctor has been able to come to such findings. Beyond this, medical professionals and teachers may be too quick to see an ailment that isn't there. Once one learns the meaning of a new word, or once heretofore little-noticed phenomena are named, one tends to see them everywhere. Now that we have recognized and named a spectrum of disorders that includes ADD/ADHD, it is very easy to drag into that spectrum children who may have no problems at all, or children with problems, to be sure, but problems not at all to do with those with which they've been diagnosed.
LOTS of adults use marijuana to self medicate their hyperactivity. The ones who do not live in their mom's basement do it after work.
Trey
Psychiatric use of amphetamines have been studied more and longer than any other psychiatric medication. That is because amphetamines were the first psychiatric medications!
There is a longitudinal study on the efficacy of medical ADHD treatment that has been going on for over 3 DECADES.
People who actually have adhd and receive medical treatment have lower incarceration rates, lower divorce rates, lower car insurance, lower drug rehab rates, and higher income than the control of people who actually have adhd and are not medically treated.
Thems the facts.
Now there are a group of people who make their living saying there is no such thing as ADHD. Most of them are Scientologists. They never, never, never talk about or even acknowledge the existence of the brain scans of people with adhd.
To look at those, go poke around at brainplace.com.
Trey
@Robert Cook -- Simple solution. We leave it up to the parents and the doctors.
You could say the same thing about medical marijuana I suppose, and I would have to go along with that, so long as medical marijuana goes through the same clinical trials for the same applications as big pharam's drugs.
Revenant wrote:
In decreasing order of credibility:
1. "My mom told me that..."
2. "Everyone knows that..."
3. "This dude at the bar said that..."
Let me put it another way. Everyone knows that even if there are potential medical benefits for smoking marijuana, that most doctors who give people their pot medically are in fact charlatans and that most of the maladies are bogus. Most people going to these doctors simply want to get pot, and there is very little actual medical diagnosis behind these precriptions.
Which is why you have school buses filled with college kids going to these clinics and getting prescribed pot for what are obviously not real diseases.
If you deny that, then you are simply a liar. Here's how it works. You tell the doctor "I have pain, or anxiety, or glaucoma" and he simply gives you pot. So you simply have to know what to say and you get your "medicine". You know this. And you are ok with it.
And do you have an issue with doctors at the protests simply giving people notes to get them out of work, when obviously they were not sick and were simply using the doctors authority to bypass their work requirements?
@Trey -- Thanks. The common wisdom about ADHD is pretty ignorant.
Robert Cook wrote: "However, I also think it too easy to misperceive children as suffering from such maladies when other factors are at work, including simply boredom, excess energy, and what have you."
you are completely correct. I work as a clinical psychologist and work with a lot of kids. Things I have seen mis-diagnosed as ADHD include ptsd, depression, anxiety, Asperger's, high functioning autism, and shitty teachers.
Trey
Then there is the teacher who sent me a note saying that she thought my patient had "a tension deficit."
He looked appropriately tense to me. I blamed the teacher. 8)
Trey
Sounds to me like you're ranting about one of your pet delusions.
I'm pretty sure it is the plot of a movie I saw once. Except that it was aliens, and they wanted us to sleep.
My coworker was diagnosed with (whatever they called ADHD back then) some time during JFK's administration. So it isn't something that sprang up during the 80's.
I'd like to point out that the appetite-stimulating characteristic of pot is useful for chemotherapy patients who have lost all appetite. Edible forms of medical marijuana are recommended for such cases.
Trey,
They never, never, never talk about or even acknowledge the existence of the brain scans of people with adhd.
Are these kids who are being diagnosed with ADHD being given brain scans? Are you suggesting that a person can be brain scanned and accurately diagnosed with ADHD (or anything)? And that people are?
That aside, I remember a moving essay written not too long ago about a woman who was using marijuana for her autistic kid. It had helped where other meds had failed, and she lost her supply—it was only a specific type of MJ that would do the trick.
If you have any experience with brain-injured kids, you know they can suffer mightily from a soft touch or a pleasant (to us) sound.
Even if the War on Drugs were wildly successful, I'd have a hard time supporting it on the basis of its curtailing of individual liberty in situations like this.
Blake, I favor legalization of marijuana. And I have ADD.
Trey
Trey,
So we agree-ish on the MJ thing.
You have ADD? Did you have a brain scan? Can you describe what on a brain scan tells us a person has ADD?
Blake, I'm with you 100%. The biopsychiatric model is a crock. Do doctors use scans or any other diagnostic tools (besides symptoms) to positively diagnose. Of course not.
Let me put it another way. Everyone knows that even if there are potential medical benefits for smoking marijuana, that most doctors who give people their pot medically are in fact charlatans and that most of the maladies are bogus.
Most people believe that even though there are proven medical benefits from smoked or ingested marijuana, most of the people who have applied for medical marijuana cards are just recreational users, and most of the doctors who approve those cards are complicit in this.
There; fixed. Sure, most of the people with MM cards are just recreational users. Clinics are a lot safer than street dealers, after all.
Which is why you have school buses filled with college kids going to these clinics and getting prescribed pot for what are obviously not real diseases.
Out of curiosity, does "school buses filled with college kids" describe a real incident?
And do you have an issue with doctors at the protests simply giving people notes to get them out of work, when obviously they were not sick and were simply using the doctors authority to bypass their work requirements?
By giving notes to the protesting teachers, the doctors helped -- or, rather, attempted to help -- in defrauding the teachers' employer. Fraud is morally wrong.
In contrast, doctors who help their patients get medical marijuana cards -- whether for medical reasons or recreational ones -- are helping their patients evade the laws against recreational drug use. The laws against drug use are morally wrong.
I favor upholding moral laws; immoral laws should be undermined, overturned, subverted or ignored wherever possible.
Revenant wrote:
By giving notes to the protesting teachers, the doctors helped -- or, rather, attempted to help -- in defrauding the teachers' employer. Fraud is morally wrong.
You're an absolute hypocrite and as lawless as those doctors you say are commiting fraud. Aren't they applying the same rationale for why their fraud is legitimate? Namely that what the governor is doing is morally wrong and therefore they are breaking the law to fight that injustice. I would simply argue that you have no call to say those doctors did anything wrong.
Should a doctor be giving out medicine to people if they are not in fact really sick? How is that doctor different than a drug dealer? If a meth dealer could market meth as a great sex enhancer and diet drug he could get doctors to "prescribe" it to all the meth heads who need their medicine.
Revenant wrote:
In contrast, doctors who help their patients get medical marijuana cards -- whether for medical reasons or recreational ones -- are helping their patients evade the laws against recreational drug use. The laws against drug use are morally wrong.
Is that the job of a doctor, to evade the laws against recreational use? And you're seriously going to then say the doctors giving out notes are guilty of fraud but these doctors aren't? You're all but admitting that they're gloried drug dealers. Why not give out crack while they're at it?
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