But it turns out the great North Carolina barbecue isn't actually in the city of Charlotte.
A local Associated Press reporter quoted a barbecue expert, retired University of North Carolina professor John Shelton Reed, who said that Charlotte for barbecue was "like Minneapolis for gumbo."Well, you can un-paste the one about "southern charm."
The gaffe was enough to make you wonder whether the White House had simply cut and pasted Southern clichés to create the first lady's announcement.
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"She comes from the school of Southern charm; she likes to have things her way..." --Joni Mitchell [Edith and the Kingpin]
So where is the good Barbecue in North Carolina?
Charlotte does, in fact, have BBQ, a fair amount of it; what it doesn't have is an abundance of the old-fashioned open pit BBQ restaurants that feature a woodpile out back, which are the sort favored by BBQ snobs. Most of the newer BBQ restaurants utilize closed smokers to cook the BBQ, which is both simpler and complies with environmental and zoning regulations.
Needless to say, when September of 2012 gets here I'm not going to be inclined to give visiting leftists a local's guided tour of the best BBQ restaurants in town. I plan to be out of town on vacation when the convention comes in.
That is pretty low. Michelle Obama said something nice... so let's crucify her over it. It is Moby territory. North Carolina can claim near enough great Bar-b-cue like Florida does sea food and oranges.
Nit, meet pick
Best BBQ in NC is in Lexington for Lexington-style NC BBQ, and Wilson for Eastern-style NC BBQ. Wikipedia has a quick explanation of the difference.
I've noticed that people here in NC are almost as devoted to their favorite BBQ joint as they are to their high school sports teams. Bordering on unhealthy.
The sin was that she didn't reference great vegetables.
I mean, in today's lethargic youth culture, do we really want our first lady to promote any greasy meats?
What the h*ll kind of town in the South doesn't accept a compliment about their BBQ?!
There is pretty good barbecue in charlotte.
In fact, for a northerner (chicago native), Charlotte barbecue would easily qualify as great.
But if you want truly great barbecue, you have to go to Lockhart, TX and eat at Kreuz (pronounced Krites) market. And no other barbecue, no other KIND of barbecue - in fact no other kind of meat - even comes close to it for sheer yumminess.
I've noticed that people here in NC are almost as devoted to their favorite BBQ joint as they are to their high school sports teams. Bordering on unhealthy.
You should see Texas on Friday nights during the fall.
So do the barbecue joints in Charlotte appreciate being publicly labelled as definitely not great?
As I remember the 1988 Dem Convention here in Atlanta, the crucial question is the quality of the whores available. So how about it Charlotte? Can you host a Dem Convention the right way or not? AlGore will need a team for him alone. In the end it really is all about the meat.
The best place for gumbo in Minneapolis is Sven and Ole's Lutefisk Gumbo House on the norteast side of town. Does Charlotte have any Famous Dave's restaurants?
The Demos chose Charlotte because they were afraid of all the Tea Partiers in big cities.
Now Charlotte knows how Obama felt when he won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Agree that Ms Obama does not need to be pilloried for this comment--
I live in Memphis which along Kansas city and few other johnny come latelies regards itself as the BBQ capitol of the country. And there probably arent 3 Memphians who would agree on who as the best BBQ in town. This is highly subjective stuff.
I know there are riots in Egypt, the mideast is in turmoil there is significant legislation going on, and other topics of passing interest to most Americans--and some dumb MoFo publishes something about the First Lady's trying to be nice comment about Charlotte-
Seems like a lot of people need to grow the fuck up.
FWIW, I've had good BBQ in Charlotte.
Gee, my first thought was Charlotte is a major banking center; does this send an "odd" message after the bank meltdown?
And if so then would the better location have been Las Vegas (i.e. greatest number of foreclosures etc.)
The sights in Charlotte will be a draw. Where else can you see Billy Graham and John Edward's love child eating at the same restaurant? The Battle of King's Mountain is close by, and it was the turning point of the Revolutionary War. The remains of Jim and Tammy Baker's religious Theme Park is there too. And where else do you see former Bankers working as WalMart greeters.
If you call being on the Food Network "great," then Bar-B-Q King is great, as it has been featured on Guy Fieri's Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives. The only other Charlotte BBQ places that feature NC BBQ and are more than a few years old are The Old Hickory House, Bill Spoon's, and Bubba's Bar-B-Q, which is actually in Huntersville. Everything else is fairly new, and Sonny's is a BBQ franchise from Florida.
The worst part is not the BBQ reference but that her statement was so cliched and needed to be made at all. I think I'll go to Greenville and get me some good She Crab soup.
We take barbecue seriously south of the Mason-Dixon and Ohio Rivers, and east of the Pecos.
Lexington BBQ is the best in the country. Love the "red slaw" too.
Lexington BBQ is the best in the country. Love the "red slaw" too.
The hell you say. Best BBQ I've ever had in my life was in Augusta, GA.
Michelle Obama has said and written a lot of dumb things.
This isn't one of them.
And we get this bit of meaningless snark about the Obamas from Politico? And conservatives here are defending her?
What universe did I wake up in? Does Spock have a beard>
Martin--no beard but the ears are rounded a bit.
It's the same mistake as thinking Okinawa has good sushi just because it's in Japan. It doesn't.
But you know. Anything south of the Mason-Dixon is "the South," and "the South" is distinguished by its barbecue. Ergo, Charlotte, of course, has great barbecue. Maybe compared to Chicago BBQ. Chicago does a lot of foods right. BBQ isn't one of them.
"....southern charm, hospitality, diversity — 'And of course, great barbecue."
Diversity? Diversity of what?
"Diversity? Diversity of what?"
Opinion about bar-b-que, I reckon.
We take barbecue seriously south of the Mason-Dixon and Ohio Rivers, and east of the Pecos.
Very. Great barbecue to a Northerner (damn Yankee) is probably average to a Southerner. Roger J makes a good point. I've had Corky's, Rendevous and The Commisairy BBQ in Memphis/Germantown. All among the best I've ever had. After that, it's personal preference.
For comparison South v North, Koxville has fast food BBQ, Buddy's, that's as good as anything you'll find in Cincinnati in my book. And, "real" BBQ is hard to find in Cinci.
There are 2 'ques in NC Eastern style (which is real BBQ) and the crap they have out in western NC. Charlotte is known for neither.
There used to be 2 things that North Carolinians would fight you about.
1 BBQ
2 Sheriff Andy Taylor (but then he done gone and corrupted his roots so he is dead to us now)
Now there is just Q
I know that the folks from the other 57 states just wont understand this.
I have reservations tonight for great BBQ in central Massachusetts. According to Chow Hound anyway. Maybe the FLOTUS should float North.
* * *
This reminds me somehow of a bit of Frank Layden schtick. Layden was the coach of the Utah Jazz NBA franchise. He pointed out that Los Angeles has great Jazz and Utah has a big lake so the two teams should switch names.
My memory of bar-b-cue wars was a Beef vs. Pork War. The Texans and KC guys do beef. I guess pigs don't roam the ranges there. Now the south is Pig-Pig-Pig in some very greasy cuts. If Michelle likes that, the we southerners like her. Will the GOP pick Dallas/Ft Worth and make this a Bar-b-cue War election. I doubt that Bar-b-cue of smoke salmon will found in either locale.
LarsPorsena said...
"....southern charm, hospitality, diversity — 'And of course, great barbecue."
Diversity? Diversity of what?
Just means a large African-American population. While whites still make up the majority population in Charlotte, the handwriting is on the wall for it to become a majority-black city.
And point of order in this wonderful discussion about BBQ--when we talk BBQ we are NOT talking ribs--we are talking pork shoulders or butts--ribs are something else entirely. And brisket (and beef ribs) are something that texans do--not in the rest of the south.
Wait, there is an "academic expert" on BBQ? Who actually taught at Chapel Hill? What an embarrassment for a fine institution.
For what it's worth, I saw a "BBQ Championship" last year on TV featuring BBQ from the four US BBQ capitals: Texas, Kansas City, Memphis, and North Carolina. Working cowboys judged the BBQ. NC came in last place. Can't remember the order of the other three.
And if we really want to get picky we have to discuss the appropriate side dishes--cole slaw isnt just cole slaw (sweet/sour); then theres the whole question of beans; and then to top it off (no pun intended) the question of Mac and cheese as your BBQ side.
This is complicated shit folks--it would do better to solve the mid east thingie going on now.
Ronbo, I'd much rather attend a course on BBQ at UNC-Chapel Hill than I would a course on Women's Studies or Gender Studies.
It's the same mistake as thinking Okinawa has good sushi just because it's in Japan. It doesn't.
Disagree...you can definitely get good sushi in Okinawa as long as you don't insist on the most expensive, exotic cuts. Lots of fish markets on the island where you can get your fish right off the boat. Doesn't get any fresher than that.
Of the NC styles, I prefer the western kind. However, my favorite BBQ at the moment is the South Carolina variety with the mustard sauce. It looks a bit odd, but it sure tastes good!
As for the Michelle Obama comment - Some things ain’t worth the trouble of getting upset, but I suppose some folks will fuss about anything. Heh heh
On the plus side – this gives us a reason to talk about BBQ! I know what I’m having for dinner. :)
Henry, whereabouts in Central MA if you don't mind me asking? I'm a born and bred Worcester guy (living in NC).
The hell you say. Best BBQ I've ever had in my life was in Augusta, GA.
Heh, I live in GA. I just like the vinegar-based Carolina style better. We do have decent 'cue here in NE GA though.
Name goes here. said...
Of the NC styles, I prefer the western kind. However, my favorite BBQ at the moment is the South Carolina variety with the mustard sauce. It looks a bit odd, but it sure tastes good!
It's good, all right. It's really good on home-grilled cheeseburgers.
BBQ is like sex. Even at its worst it's still pretty damned good.
Why would Charlotte, which is a nice place, want to have the Democrat convention? Seriously, these folks are some of the rudest cheapskates you'd ever want to meet. Just ask any waiter at any restaurant in a Democrat area. Democrats don't tip unless it's with someone else's money.
Maguro: Fresh and good are two different things.
Can't remember the order of the other three.
One show on the Food Channel named Neely's in Memphis the best in the country. But, I've had native Memphians tell me they prefer others.
Memphis BBQ all the way!!
Charlotte is an odd place for a convention. Wonder what that's about.
@Lincolntf -- B.T.s Smokehouse in Sturbridge. It's supposed to be good.
The best barbecue is in Hickory, NC. Of couse!
Trey
Shanna said...
Charlotte is an odd place for a convention. Wonder what that's about.
NC went for Obama in the 2008 presidential election, which is unusual for a fairly conservative state. This automatically makes NC a battleground state for 2012, and the hope is that by hosting the convention in NC, the voters in the Tar Heel State will pull the lever for Obama again.
Coketown (and Maguro)--Coke: have to take issue with you on the question of fresh vs good when it comes to sushi--we catch our own yellowfin and blackfin tuna or bonito in the bahamas--kill them immediately, bleed them out and pack them in ice--when we clean them home, cut out the lateral line and are left with wonderful shoulder fillets--absolutely no "fishy" smell and we enjoy them raw with a little soy and wasabi.
My sis in law makes great sushi as well, but raw (or hawaiian poke style is best imo). When it comes to sushi fresh rules--my thought: if it smells like fish it isnt fresh. And iti wont be good.
Roger, I agree with you about the pilloring and the great barbecue in Memphis.
But nobody says that Nashville is "of course" a home of great bbq. That is Memphis.
Not a big error, but it was an error.
Trey
Dad: two neely's--father and son who have separate operations--I will defer to Garage for his opinion--I have sent him Memphis BBQ on two occasions, one from Neeley pere and one from Neeley fils--will let him give you his insights
and as for Memphis BBQ--there are other smaller hole in the wall joints in Memphis that you would never find if you werent here.
In a way this discussion would be like cheeseheads (go steelers) opining about the best brats and best cheese--agreement is not possible.
Henry said...
Nice. Haven't heard of it. I look forward to a review. If the BBQ passes muster I'll have to recommend it to my gluttonous friends back home who are jealous of my easy access to the good stuff.
random note: My wedding was at Old Sturbridge Village.
See? Rednecks and southern culture are like foreigners to the upper midwest denizens.
No matter what color they are.
I take umbrage. (That's a fancy way of saying I am offended. Do I get $omething now??)
The FLOTUS doesn't know the difference between vinegar based and tomato sauce based barbeque. Much less where the strongholds are.
(The article on the Dems taking over Charlotte is making the rounds on my email lists:
"To paraphrase the current First Lady, "for the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed to be called a North Carolinian".)
two neely's--father and son who have separate operations
Didn't know that. Just know that Corky's was so good it's hard to imagine better. But, I'd like to try every place in town just to be sure.
In the 2010 elections Republicans took control of North Carolina's legislature for the first time in more than a hundred years.
I am not sure what the Dems were thinking. The Republicans are on a roll here.
NC is interesting. Often has been Rep in presidential elections, state level - Dems for since the 18th century. Senate reps -- back and forth between Repubs and Dems.
We gave the Senate Sam Ervin and Jesse Helms.
:-)
Maguro: Fresh and good are two different things.
Not when it comes to raw fish.
If you're saying that the fancy restaurants in Tokyo and Osaka offer the highest quality, most expensive cuts I won't argue with you. But those places are incredibly expensive, way out of my price range. If you're talking about your basic sushi cuts at a reasonable price, Okinawa's pretty damn good...as good as anyplace else in Japan as far as I'm concerned.
NC went for Obama in the 2008 presidential election, which is unusual for a fairly conservative state.
Because NC isn’t all that conservative, at least compared to a lot of the south.
And brisket (and beef ribs) are something that texans do--not in the rest of the south.
We have brisket in Arkansas. But then we’re between Texas and Memphis, so we’re probably a bit like both.
Went on a BBQ vacation once.
Best BBQ = Dirty Ernie's, WV
Charlotte and Greensboro rank 8 out of 10 (high rate)for national crime rate.
Twill be interesting.
But forgotten.
Our betters know absolutely nothing about the country they administer. Nothing. Mainly they go on stereotypes, the engine of liberalism. But Charlotte is the home of NASCAR fans, clingers, and fat cat bankers the two cohorts the left loves to hate and mock.
RogerJ: I agree that BBQ places have their own following and I yield to no one in my defense of Memphis BBQ being the very best. I disagree that BBQ is a frivolous topic in these perilous times, indeed I think it should be topic number one. You cannot find good BBQ in Cairo, for example, for reasons that matter. You can find excellent BBQ in North Carolina albeit not in Charlotte, excellent being several grades below Memphis.
There is nothing authentic about Michelle Obama but her racism - that's why it's an insult. We caught her husband, in an unguarded moment, saying what he really thought of them, and she spends 364 days a year, telling us not to eat shit like BBQ. But then - when she and Bambi want something - all of a sudden she tries to make like they're her favorite people and meat's at the top of her favorite menu items. It's always obvious bullshit with them.
Fuck her - she doesn't deserve Southern hospitality.
I know you like her, Ann (for some insane reason) but the First Lady, trying to exploit the citizens of the United States, is one of those things that any fool would know sends them to their "guns and religion". Trying to diss them, for being smart enough to recognize when they're being used, is just adding insult to injury. It's wrong. There is nothing about Southern hospitality that means they play at being saps - and there's nothing "nice" about insisting they do so. In other words:
NewAge culture doesn't apply to being American.
Three things besides football Southerners like to argue about: religion, politics, and barbecue. Heretics will be persecuted (because under the law they can't be prosecuted).
Charlotte is an odd place for a convention. Wonder what that's about.
Easy to fly to.
Three things besides football Southerners like to argue about: religion, politics, and barbecue.
"Three things besides football Southerners like to argue about: religion, politics, and barbecue."
That reminds me of driving through Alabama -- the three most things you'll see are churches, titty bars and BBQ shacks.
Lord Somber--regretably title loan and instant cash operations have overtaken titty bars--in a recent trip to Florence my travelling companion ( a sober man I might add) and I actually counted 23 quick loan operations in a mile stretch of the main road out of florence.
Crack...I hear you loud and clear. FYI the southern way is to fight to win using every blow and strategy we can...until after the match. Then we cordially drink a coke or a less soft drink with them and do it all over again the next day. Think of Bobby Jones's style in beating the rest of the golf world, but being ever so cordial so that winners were always respected, given the Green Jacket and invited back to next year's Masters.
Sonny's is a BBQ franchise from Florida.
Then that would have to be the best BBQ in Charlotte.
traditionalguy said...
Speaking of Coke, a few months after I moved to NC from MA, I took a ride to a job site with a friend. We stopped for gas at a tiny little station with a shop attached. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw "NeHi" in the cooler. I'd heard that brand name for my whole life but kinda thought it only existed in re-runsn and old movies. I bought a Grape one and it wasn't half bad.
Triangle Man said...
Sonny's is a BBQ franchise from Florida.
Then that would have to be the best BBQ in Charlotte.
Amusingly, the local alternative weekly newspaper has an annual "Best of Charlotte" feature, and Sonny's usually wins Best BBQ based on reader's votes. I like Sonny's, myself. I was raised in Gainesville, Florida, where Sonny's started out, and ate at the first restaurant many times.
To a Northerner, any barbeque from the South is great barbeque.
BBQ is like sex. Even at its worst it's still pretty damned good.
Wait a minute. The Professor is on record as saying that "most sex is bad sex."
Dad: two neely's--father and son who have separate operations--I will defer to Garage for his opinion--I have sent him Memphis BBQ on two occasions, one from Neeley pere and one from Neeley fils--will let him give you his insights
The first package of ribs (Neeley pere?) were much much better in my opinion. Just fantastic, my wife normally doesn't like ribs but she still talks about those Neeley ribs you sent. I'd have to say probably the best ribs I've ever tried. I like the fact they don't insult you by putting bbq sauce on the ribs for you.
Seems like a horseshoe, hand grenades sort of thing. If there's good barbecue nearby, they can get it there.
Who in NC is churlish enough to complain about this?
I like the fact they don't insult you by putting bbq sauce on the ribs for you.
It's critical they don't put the sauce on whether it's ribs or pulled pork. Otherwise, it's not real bbq. It's a northern imitation.
I only lived in Charlotte for a few years, but it is true that it has mostly chain-restaraunt barbecue and some other random competent barbecue places. Nothing to write home about.
If the Obamas want a good place for photo ops, I'd recommend Price's Chicken Coup. Unfortunately I never got the chance to eat there. Charlotte also taught me you can put chili and slaw on anything. If you ever have to each in Charlotte, I know it's not what your looking for, but they have the best Vietnamese restaraunt: Lang Van. Looks scary from the outside, but is amazing food.
Barbeque factoid: South Carolina has a completely different sauce tradition than either eastern or western NC BBQ. Mustard based. I vastly prefer it over NCs vinegar water.
Charlotte was a nasty, stuck up city, and deeply racially spit geographically and culturally. As soon as you meet someone they will try to size you up by asking what church you go to and what neighborhood you live in. If you live in a better neighborhood than them, they will stop talking to you. I have seen people move two blocks down the street because the part of Eastover built in the late 40s is much more prestigious than the part built in the early 50s. Nobody did their job well, there. Had the most self-important incompetent housing contractors I ever had the misfortune to hire.
Who in NC is churlish enough to complain about this?
The editors of the Observer will complain about anything. They used to all be Chapel Hill grads (so they learned the local tomatoed BBQ is crap), don't know if that's still true.
Why was the convention pick announced by the FLOTUS?
wv - congsta - our only native criminal class
wriight: Charlotte is like every city in that there are a core group of people who will insist that the Mayflower itself landed on its shore with the ancestors aboard. As likely to find that group in Des Moines as in Charlotte. Ditto the church and neighborhood calibrations. I don't much like the place myself, but what you observed and I observed about the city I have seen everywhere I have lived.
In Atlanta we don't care much for Charlotte any more since they scoffed up all of the big Atlanta banks by merger and moved their headquarters to Charlotte, except for SunTrust. So sad that they have lost them all now. And the Panthers are the Falcons divisional rival along with the Saints and the Bucs.
New Orleans is always touted for its "Cajun" food. We don't throw a hissy about it, we just send folks to other parts of Louisiana for it. Or to one of the very few Cajun restaurants in the city.
Life's too short to bitch about stupid crap like this.
Is May 20th still a holiday in Charlotte?
Meck Dec Day
My g-g-g grandfather was a 16 y.o. eyewitness. Wiki lists his future father in law as a signer.
Life's too short to bitch about stupid crap like this.
Well, not yet. But after 2014, you'll be right.
Sonny's BBQ is okay (their Sunday all-u-can-eat night was great when I was a broke college student), but if that's the best BBQ in your town, then that's just pretty sad.
Lincolntf...Many old brands seem to be resurfacing, like Red Rock ginger ale in Atlanta It is made from hot ginger and cane suger. I do remember back when there was an ice box filled with ice water that froze our little hands as we would trolled through the many 6 oz cokes and 10 oz Pepsis to pull out a coveted Nehi Orange.
@traditionalguy
The Dems bring their own clowns, whores and butt boys, aka former presidential candidates, WH staffers and Congressional colleagues.
You think the MSM will show the gaggle of private jets parked at Charlotte Douglas or the line of limos & SUVs gliding up to the back doors of "The People's Convention"?
I've never seen an American political party so nostalgic for the USSR.
This is political spin of the lowest order. The 2011 Charlotte Official Visitor's Claims, the Times Warner Cable BBQ & Blues is the best of a Carolina tradition with "great BBQ." She did not the say best, just great. I mean can I no longer claim Chicago has the best deep pan pizza? To claim that simple claims about food is exploiting citizens is so much B.S. (I've spent time at Chapel HIll and traveled all over the state -- there are many fine BBQ placesN.C so what is the big deal?)
The proper controversy over barbecue should not be where it's good -- because nowadays it's good everywhere -- but how it's spelled.
Lincolntf and TradGuy --
One word: Cheerwine.
(Though I think it doesn't make it to the Deep South, TG.)
I used to have to export it to Norfolk when D1 was in school there.
JAL, yup. I see Cheerwine in every store. I've never tried it. I assume it's kinda Dr. Pepper-like?
Love this conversation, because I think maybe Charlotte doesn't get all the recognition it deserves...it's a big city with a lot going on, especially economically (even after the fall of Wachovia and BofA's potential move) and it's still growing fast!
My wife is from Charlotte and I've been spending a lot of time there recently even though we live in New York. I'm from Richmond originally, so I know all about stuck up society (after all, North Carolina IS a valley of humility between two mountains of conceit) but I've found Charlotte to be quite accepting.
Though I can see how it might be hard for someone without a connection to gain access.
And for the record, I've had good BBQ in Charlotte, though again, I'm from Virginia which is, as I've been told, essentially Yankee territory as far as North Carolinians are concerned.
Cheer wine is sweeter and more cherry flavored than Dr Pepper.
I think it might be a NC drink, because they don't sell it in Richmond either.
Cheerwine. Cheerwine.
Damn iPad.
Charlotte is within an hour's drive of a lot of good barbeque (roughly the knee of the trail between Shelby and Granite Quarry). I don't blame Michelle for her outsider's perspective: when we went to Statesville and Salisbury we landed at Charlotte and rented a car.
http://www.ncbbqsociety.com/trail_map.html
The sight to see in that part of the world is Old Salem -- a low key version of Colonial Williamsburg. Some of the Moravians who settled in Pennsylvania (and built the "Kentucky" rifle) moved to North Carolina. Eat some gingersnaps while you're there.
And even though it's from South of the Border, drink some fabulous Blenheim Ginger Ale -- they put the ginger in ginger ale
As I remember the 1988 Dem Convention here in Atlanta, the crucial question is the quality of the whores available. So how about it Charlotte? Can you host a Dem Convention the right way or not? AlGore will need a team for him alone. In the end it really is all about the meat. title experts
This reminds me somehow of a bit of Frank Layden schtick. Layden was the coach of the Utah Jazz NBA franchise. He pointed out that Los Angeles has great Jazz and Utah has a big lake so the two teams should switch names. atlanta title loans
That is pretty low. Michelle Obama said something nice... so let's crucify her over it. It is Moby territory. North Carolina can claim near enough great Bar-b-cue like Florida does sea food and oranges.
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