The California High Speed Rail Authority is committed to breaking ground on a leg of the train that will serve passengers between the unincorporated town of Borden and the half-incarcerated town of Corcoran.Corcoran!
Whether you call it the train from nowhere or the train to nowhere, nobody will be riding it even when it’s done. That’s not libertarian cant: The actual plan for the $4.15 billion leg is that upon completion it will sit idle until other sections of track are completed.$4.15 billion!
Background: The CHSRA needs to break ground by September 2012 or lose $2.25 billion in federal funds. The U.S. Department of Transportation has for reasons of its own favored the sparsely populated Central Valley for this first leg of the thinly imagined high speed rail project.Reasons of its own? Can we get an investigation?
Meanwhile, in Wisconsin, we just elected a new governor whose central election promise was to say no to $810 million connect Madison and Milwaukee by high-speed rail:
Scott Walker has made no secret of his aversion to high-speed trains, but before he goes any further with his plans to derail the planned Milwaukee-Madison line, Walker might consider some earlier chapters in Wisconsin's transportation history. They indicate that the governor-elect could be putting his state in reverse.Connections! We're all about relationships among people.
As long as there has been a Wisconsin, residents have labored mightily to establish connections with each other and with the world beyond the state's borders. Although disputes often arose in working out the details, the general trend was unmistakable....
The idea seems oddly nostalgic at first - why build passenger trains in the 21st century? - but it actually fits an emerging settlement pattern. Not in my lifetime but perhaps in my grandchildren's, and for better or worse, an interconnected megalopolis will sprawl from Benton Harbor, Mich., to Minneapolis-St. Paul. As the empty spaces fill in, there will be a demand for some form of transport that's faster than cars but has more frequent stops (and fewer exasperating waits) than airplanes.The columnist — John Gurda in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel — is imagining a megalopolis in the future and telling us what people then will want. But people don't even want trains now. We drive cars. Or we take planes. There's also the bus. True, a bus doesn't go at a speed in between the speed of a car and a plane, but come on. Pick one. Road or air.
But, anyway, we have a nice train in Madison:
A train and a Christmas tree in the Wisconsin State Capitol.
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232 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 232 of 232Far be it from consumers to demand something akin to "quality" when it comes to what they put in their bodies, I guess. Especially when they're the type of consumer who would fill their heads with the type of shit that passes for reasoning here.
Garbage in, garbage out. There's certainly a market for garbage, I admit. It's just not one that can grow as strong as Quaestor and his other like-minded homicidal maniacs presume.
But let's go back to invoking Stalin. It must take one heavy dose of Quaaludes to daydream that the USSR was all about preventing the over-industrialization of things.
You waste your time believing that these dickholes will take a decent argument seriously, FLS. For them, everything in the world depends on how they can figure that Stalin fits in the picture.
So throwing good money down this stupid HSR project rathole after bad makes sense to you?
The HSR project in Cali? I didn't look at it closely. But if it didn't make sense I wouldn't argue until I was blue in the face that it did.
The train sucks for transportation unless you live in the urban cesspools that Ritmo so loves.
Me and the majority of the country, and the world. Urbanization is a trend that no number of fraudulent mortgage-backed securities or McMansions can reverse. Deal.
Interesting that your fellow travelers invoke argumentum ad populum when it comes to how many people remain stuck on the diminishing market for conventional agriculture, but you can't stand to have it pointed out to you that cities hold the majority and a growing number of the population. I guess if you don't have a disease that makes dealing with people cause a short-circuit in your brain then it's not a problem.
With a lot of work California may be able to reuse some of the Caltrain tracks from south of San Jose up to San Francisco
The last mile will be the most contentious, that's for sure. That's why they're starting out amongst the alfalfa fields and almond orchards instead of the backyards of billionaires.
for purposes of pointing out financial management/contractor bidding fiascos
There the subject of the contract was routine, and the contract was innovative. I expect that because HSR is innovative, the contract will be conventional in form. Too much novelty at once is a recipe for disaster.
Hey Blogger/Althouse! Thanks for deleting my comment on how the market is making decisions that Stalinists like Quaestor and New Ham apparently resent.
Also in that comment, my admonishing GMay for his inability to use avatars and accessible profiles as clues and my reminder to Roger that while not all of us live by bread alone, calling out the willfully ignorant is, well, priceless.
Is Big Gov't Trickling Down on You a troll looking to have fun by yanking our chains, or is he a rage-filled psychotic?
I expect that because HSR is innovative, the contract will be conventional in form. Too much novelty at once is a recipe for disaster.
And this has stopped the government when?
IMAO the whole thing is a recipe for disaster, but LA to San Francisco makes more sense than Milwaukee to Madison. That said, LA is in a bowl, and the tracks have to climb out and surmount a bunch of mountain ranges while dealing with earthquake zones. The Japanese designed their train control equipment to react automatically and immediately to stop their bullet trains in the event of earthquakes. Will the US government be as wise? I think you believe that they will, and I'm pretty certain that the US government won't until after the first earthquake kills a bunch of passengers.
Pssst! I pretend to be as crazy as the homicidal ad hominem addicts here because they only understand how to fight fire with fire. But don't tell anyone! Shhhh!
@FLS, one thing sort of confirms my view that even the Anaheim to San Francisco high speed line is going to be an epic example of goat copulation is the difference between the Central Pacific and the current effort. In the 1850's Theodore Judah started in the mountains and surveyed down towards Sacramento, because he knew that once he started the rail-laying in Sacramento he'd limit his options climbing the mountains, and possibly have to attempt impossible grades or curves too tight to handle. Now perhaps the high speed route has already been surveyed end to end, but it seems to me that if they're starting with the part of their route where they would have had the most degrees of freedom then they're making the mistake that Judah avoided.
Interestingly, Governor Stanford named Borden for one of its founders, a physician from Beaufort N.C., the day the Central Pacific began operating to there.
All that remains of Borden is the graves of the Chinese who died building that San Joaquin Valley railroad.
Big Mike, they're pretty much following the Central Pacific/Southern Pacific/Santa Fe routing. But they're going to bull through Tehachapi Pass somehow.
@FLS, they can't use the Loop and still manage high speeds. The radius of the Tehachapi Loop is around 1200 feet and the tightest turns I'm aware of on high speed rail is around 2 miles. Perhaps they're planning a humongous tunnel? All of the high speed rail lines (including the Acela in the Boston to Washington run) use electricity to power the trains, which means there would be no need to worry about exhausting diesel fumes (much less smoke!).
So it's perhaps feasible, but I suspect you could buy and fly a bunch of Airbus 380s and provide hourly service between the two cities for a lot less money.
(If you didn't mind the Airbus engines falling off in mid-flight.)
@DBQ
BTW: before the government built roads and bridges, there were toll roads, toll bridges and ferries build by enterprising business people.
We've the worse of both worlds in the Bay Area. Bridge tolls went up a buck to $6, $2 for the previously free HOV lanes (3+ occupants to a vehicle) and CalTrans recently opened state owned toll lanes on 680 sth of Sunol. Plus we pay 39 cents gas tax for freeway and highway maintenance (on top of the fed gas tax bringing it to 69 cents a gal).
Of course my fav CalTrans boondoggle was issuing HOV plates to Prius and Hybrid drivers, allowing them to whiz through bridge tolls free. Within weeks the demand exceed the allotted plates and in some areas the HOV plated cars with one passenger filled the HOV lanes rendering them unusable for van pools and commuter pools. They had to rescind the program leaving 10s of thousands of new Prius owners steamed.
Once the govt get its hand in your pocket, it never fucking ends.
garage mahal imagined: "I'm sure you were similarly distraught over the billions we sent into the Iraq Reconstruction shithole, right Gmay? Or did you think building rail lines in Iraq made more economic sense?"
And I'm sure one day you'll be able to stay remotely on topic. You can graduate to making sense later.
Ritty whined: "Also in that comment, my admonishing GMay for his inability to use avatars and accessible profiles as clues..."
Clutch the pearls, Ritmo was admonishing me! Whatever shall I do??
I know language isn't your strong suit Ritty, but don't confuse "inability" with "uninterested in". As if you need a profile to inform your tortured readers who's flailing their little e-peen about.
@fls
All that remains of Borden is the graves of the Chinese who died building that San Joaquin Valley railroad.
When was the last time you drove through the area? Borden is just south of Madera and though unincorporated, folks still live & work there. Borden has several large grower supply depots, packing sheds, a large sand & gravel quarry on Ave 12 and a Jack in the Box and a Subway just off HWY 99.
I have extended family by marriage in Shafter, Hanford and Madera. We were in Madera this past summer for a wedding. The local joke is that the HSR will take you from somewhere outside of Fresno to somewhere else kind of closer to Bakersfield.
@pst314
Astroturf leftie troll.
I hate this state. I really do. I wish I could leave it, but the economy equally sucks everywhere else and going to a podunk, shitville, up-your-ass town in fly-over country is just not that appealing. Leftards have fucked this state good with all of their bullshit ideas that simply translated to a type of dictatorial style of governance. The legislature is nothing more than a mouthpiece for DNC failures and Soros-types to continually funnel money and fleece the citizens for this type of boondoggling crap. From amnesty cities, to a 24 billion dollar hole that this state will never come out of, it's every man for himself at this point. Yup, everything leftards touch rots to the core. Fuck you for ruining such a once great state, you filthy motherfuckers and your misbegotten ideas.
Big Gov't Trickling Down on You said...
Pssst! I pretend to be as crazy as the homicidal ad hominem addicts here because they only understand how to fight fire with fire. But don't tell anyone! Shhhh!
Still ever, the proverbial flap monkey. Lots of fingers flying on a keyboard to say absolutely nothing. One day, your threadcrapping is going to get the better of you, twinkle.
@fls
With a lot of work California may be able to reuse some of the Caltrain tracks from south of San Jose up to San Francisco
Do you know anything at all about the CalTrain line? We already have a Baby Bullet Express that can't pay it's way and San Jose's light rail is a folly.
However, the issue of building HSR on the Peninsula isn't with the SV billionaires and San Mateo old money enclaves, its the California Coastal Comission that controls the master plan of counties & cities that front on the Bay and all permits on the Bay and coast.
One has to take the good; public access to clean beaches, restored wetlands, marshes and bays with less encroaching commercial development with the bad: less development of public transportation and recreational hardscape.
Michael said...
I wonder if they know what a two hole outhouse is in Wisconsin?
The two hole outhouse was invented in Wisconsin by two men named Ole and Sven.
Interestingly enough, Ole married a lady named Lena. On their honeymoon trip they were nearing Eau Claire when Ole put his hand on Lena's knee. Giggling, Lena said, "Ole, you can go farther than that if you vant to." So Ole drove to Superior.
Sven went on to become a legend in his own right, he invented the toilet seat. Twenty years later the Swedes invented the hole in it.
"We haven't got the money" trumps pretty much any pro-train argument, I'd say.
There are a lot of things my family would like to have. Things that would make our lives very fine and easy. But we haven't got the money for them. This is reality.
The Greenists and other pro-train advocates are not living in the reality-based community.
I'd love to see what Althouse's blog would say if it were around in the 1860's.
Well, we have as far back as 1899 at least.
Me and the majority of the country, and the world.
Yes, because a "majority of the country" now lives in big East Coast cities!
95% of America doesn't ride trains.
You are an idiot beyond belief.
Yes, because a "majority of the country" now lives in big East Coast cities!
Have to agree with Jay here. There will never be a demand to move masses of people from Milwaukee to Madison. Wisconsin is a backwater and its national influence will only recede. Marketing it as a pastoral paradise of Kaese und Wurst is its only hope for the future. The prof will be retired by then; hopefully she will have a source of retirement income other than her state pension.
In contrast, California's population growth has never stopped*, and should reach 50 million by the time Social Security goes bankrupt. For a state the size of Japan, having bullet trains to move such a population around makes sense.
*Native-born types who have left the state during bad economic times have been more than replaced by immigrants.
When was the last time you drove through the area?
Sorry, I should have said historic Borden.
In the 1860s this blog was full of comments from one "Roundhouse Mahal" snarking at the governor of Wisconsin for refusing to build high-speed canals.
So Jay, in order to assist in your campaign to fight idiocy, can you explain what made you decide to re-define Dust Bowl Queen's term "urban cesspools" as "big East Coast cities"?
Don't mean to beggar your belief of how idiotic things can become, but perhaps you can tell us how you came to define "urban cesspools" not as cities per se, but as specifically "big East Coast cities"? Was it just your hateful bias against the culturally important centers on one coast of the country that caused you to interpret that epithet so narrowly?
Your confusion seems to causing quite a bit of idiocy around here, so please clarify.
Retrograde Asshole.
we've had a recent rash of train accidents here in california..running people and cars down as they chug along at 35mph or so. do we really wants trains that zip along at 300mph or more ?!?
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