I was touched by Sarah's interaction with Trig and with another boy with Down Syndrome (a member of her extended family). It made me cry and it made me think about this post by Andrew Sullivan criticizing Sarah Palin for combining motherhood and a career in national politics:
Anyone one who genuinely cared about the privacy of her kids would have either said no [to the vice presidential nomination] or been extremely careful to release the information as soberly as possible....Think of how the press — including you — regards those daughters as off-limits but goes after Palin's daughters.
[S]he parades a special needs infant in front of the press, dangles him half-naked in front of book tour crowds, uses him constantly as a rhetorical campaign prop, and cites him at almost every speech to appeal to pro-life voters....
What Palin has done with her young children is unprecedented. Think of how Obama strictly protects his daughters, and how George W. Bush did the same.
What Palin has done is use her children, having failed to actually rear them. She is still doing it on her reality show. That she has gone so far as to use and thereby abuse a child with Down Syndrome whose interests are clearly in seclusion, careful nurturing and care, and constant parental attention, tells you a huge amount.Seclusion? Is that right, tucking those kids away from the rest of the society? Why not be out and proud?
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199 comments:
Andrew Sullivan is a cretinous creep. What else is there to say, really?
One thing I'm really enjoying about "Sarah Palin's Alaska" is how normal her children seem, right down to the fact that most of them are mildly rebellious.
Last time I went to the doctor, there was a poster on the wall of a Downie looking at a dandelion, and the caption said, "Who's more inquisitive about his environment? Me or you?" The point was that kids with Down Syndrome are naturally curious, inquisitive, and love exploring their environment--a trait anyone who's ever interacted with such a child would know. Their interests are not in seclusion.
I miss the days when gays were cheerful and flamboyant. Jazz hands! Now they're all bitter and entitled. Give us decorating advice. Not parenting advice. Remember, Andrew, you don't have kids. Or do you?
"Why not be out and proud?"
That'll leave a mark.
Palin brings out the latent heterosexuality in Sully. That's why his reaction is always so visceral. He wants to shag her, and he can't stand that.
You're not quite right, Professor. The press has regarded Chelsea Clinton and the Obama girls as off-limits. Republican daughters, and Amy Carter, were fair game.
Republican daughters, and Amy Carter, were fair game.
My personal favorite was when the Bush twins got busted for underage drinking in college and the press was all like "oh, how sad, they're turning into alcoholics like their dad".
Er... anyone here NOT drink underage in college? Show of hands.
As I passed through the living room last night(?) my daughter was watching the last part of Palin. I saw her filet the salmon(?) and then there was the down-scale picnic on the riverside(?) Real down-home middle America. Whatever. I don't mind her.
Yes, Allen, that would be a great show...most importantly pretending to accidentally throw balls into his yard, or something.
What normal everyday family doesn't have a TV studio in their home?
whose interests are clearly in seclusion
People used to say the exact same thing about gays, Andy.
garage,
I'll bet that none of the salmon strips have tire tracks on them.
Andrew Sullivan, and most liberals too, have never forgiven Palin for not aborting Trig. Now that they see Trig and realize that the kid night actually have a rewarding life it fills them with unacknowledged shame. They deal with it by unmercifully attacking Palin (for being the mother they could never, would never, be.)
Seclusion? Is that right, tucking those kids away from the rest of the society? Why not be out and proud?
For someone who wrote a book titled Virtually Normal..
Sully sure shot himself in the foot there.
Sully also defended Kerry bringing up Cheneys gay daughter Mary Cheney as fodder in the debates.
Remember when Sullivan dreamed about being lost in Palin's lush garden? That still cracks me up. He's afraid of her vagina and doesn't even realize it!
Who would ever listen to Sully on child rearing? He clearly hates children - probably has mom issues too.
So I was going to write something like "so Trig will never grow up to be a writer at the Atlantic - he can still have a happy and rewarding life", but then I remembered that being functionally retarded is actually no bar to writing for the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/11/in-which-i-become-a-conservative/67146/
And most Downs' kids I've met LOVE meeting new people and seeing new things - the only problem is sometimes an excess of enthusiasm.
I'll bet that none of the salmon strips have tire tracks on them.
From the looks of things, the first time she ever grabbed a fishing rod might have been for this tv show.
Anyway it seems to me the Palin children are doing brilliantly from all the media attention thrust on them by their mother. Humble, well adjusted, polite. Just like mom.
You know, Andrew, it wouldn't have been so long ago that a gay adolescent or adult child of a esteemed member of society who wanted a public life would have been hidden in the closet *literally*.... as in chained up in the attic or put in an institution.
Andrew is so off the bend on this subject.
Quite a while before I was born, I had a sister who became disabled after a reaction to a shot which gave her convulsions. This deeply affected our family even after she died. She eventually had to be institutionalized.
Seclusion is NOT what you want. Seclusion can sometimes be forced - by assholes like AS is being in this instance.
AS needs to be in seclusion.
Would spare us the pain of having to read about him (since I don't *read* him except second hand).
wv clone
Let's not. Please. Pretty please.
Perhaps it's coincidence, but always, without fail, New Ham shows up on groping, and/or gay/lesbian threads. In fact when the thread is about Janet Napolitano, New Ham (a she) just can't wait to get in on some of that action. Is there something you want to tell us Hammy? You want to bump rugs with Big Sis? Get groped by Big Sis? Repressing all these feelings in the dark place is not healthy, and I don't think anyone here would mind if you opened up. If you're shy I'll go first and tell you a secret about me. What say you?
Other than promoting the endless pursuit of media-whoredom, exactly what do Republicans stand for these days?
I like Palin's show for the same reason I like Mike Rowe and "Dirty Jobs". hey strike me as real people who aren't afraid of hard work and are not condescending to regular people. They also realize there is a lot of America that isn't located in cities n the coasts.
I would like to hear more from Todd Palin. I think it would help us all to get used to the future 'First Dude."
is there some denying the observation that Sarah uses her kids? can you with a straight face say that she doesn't and isn't?
she plays the right wing like a cheap banjo and snaps money from them like a starved gator.
she is a user and the sooner you get that through your noggins the better off you will be.
Please deal with the issues raised in the post. I'm deleting a lot here. Chad, I assume you are a moby. I will be liberally deleting your inferior contributions. You'll have to do much better to avoid that.
"she is a user and the sooner you get that through your noggins the better off you will be."
She could use me, bud, use me all night long.
Joke (sort of) aside, she isn't using anyone,especially her family, but she IS playing liberals (and much of the GOP) like a violin.
is there some denying the observation that Sarah uses her kids? can you with a straight face say that she doesn't and isn't?
Yeah, she and Todd had all five just to make a big, ongoing media splash. It had nothing to do with being family people and liking to spend time with the kids.
And just look at all the greenhouse gas they are exhaling.
Irresponsible on every level.
Sarah is loving them, raising them, and big time refudiating people who brag about abandoning the weak. Sarah is the Anti-Eugenics politician. She is not agnostic and on the fence either...she fights for her family. Her example of exposing the eugenics based death panel plans of the murderous Dems started the Tea Party phenomenon. Leadership counts for everything. She is the only leader in sight today. The seven dwarves are still busy rigging the GOP convention...but no leadership is coming from any of them, except Gingrich, and the Grinch is not electable.
"Other than promoting the endless pursuit of media-whoredom, exactly what do Republicans stand for these days?"
My my, do I hear the telltale sign of tin rattling jealousy here?
Whattsamatter Bender ... upset because Nancy Pelosi can't get her own reality show - "Dancing With The Plastic Surgeons."
neomaxizoomdweebie
Palin is a lot of things but presidential is not one that comes to mind.
Andrew Sullivan is not an American. He is a drug-abusing law breaker who should be deported back to England for violating our drug laws.
He does not deserve to be in our country and his visa should be revoked.
New H Ham...LOL. "Dancing with the plastic surgeons" is the cruelest cut of all.
And it's sickening that you're stifling legitimate criticism of Andrew Sullivan, Ann.
This blog supports free speech? Bullshit.
Garage wrote
"From the looks of things, the first time she ever grabbed a fishing rod might have been for this tv show. "
Umm. Garage. She helped run the family commercial fishing business. She was actually out on the boats some of the time.
Looks like a certain deletion-prone yutz can't deal with the issues. The question has to do with what Republicans stand for, other than endless self-promotion? Suffice it to say, I'm sure many people are happy to vote for public servants who have too much integrity (and better things to do) to appear on reality TV shows.
Not that a moby would understand that.
Well said, Ann. Well said. The Palin Derangement Syndrome explains all.
Sullivan wrote this about Palin today:
What, after all does she believe in, apart from generalities designed to flatter her base and demonize her opponents? My two conclusions: herself and divine destiny.
There simply is no rebuttal.
Bartender cabbie...So do you see Governor Palin as a "very pretty girl who should enjoy fun and games in Alaska" and abandon the Grand Old Party that has been so good to her. To me there appears to be steel in her spine and a winning point guards vision to win; and no, Obama cannot go two out of three after she trounces him.
Derangement! Clearly you cannot think someone not up to the job they desire and feel entitled to unless you are deranged! Clearly, this must be so.
Big Gov...The GOP stands for saying no to the Obama/Soros schemes to destroy the American way of life. After that, then please check back with us about how dumb they are at doing this Roman Empire Redux thing you prefer.
Suicide bombers have steel in their spine and a vision as well.
Andrew Sullivan is a pitiful little man.
Clearly George W. Bush was well on his way to preserving his "American way of life" in October 2008. If only we'd given it more time to work itself out.
Do you guys have memories that end in 2009? What is wrong with you? How did George Soros make us lose hundreds of thousands of jobs each month and 40% of the DJIA that came Bush's way before Obama was sworn in?
At what point do you allow reality lay claim to any stake in your rhetoric?
A memo from Central Broadcasting has just been sent: Reality is bad for Republicans. It has been henceforth sworn off as a foundation for anything political.
Instead, if reality is to be engaged at all, it will only be on reality TV shows. Those things are just mundane and impertinent enough to not hurt Republican fortunes.
Big Gov...Did you say Sarah Palin has the guts to fight for her vision even if it costs her her life? That is a great complement. As for the 8 Bush years, I agree that he let Congress sweep this Mortgage Bubble under the rug to get support for his Iraq Expedition. But the point is what Obama and Soros are doing with the crisis as the excuse to eliminate the USA's industrial base with a base Hoax of CO2 being a threat. Bush never went after the USA to kill it like that.
I have yet to read any science or economics text that requires carbon as an energy source. Could you recommend some, seeing as how unfamiliar I am with your proposed First Law of Civilization?
You raise hypothetical concerns re: Obama, Soros, carbon and any other unmentioned planks in this three-legged stool of an otherwise smashing conspiracy theory. Bush, OTOH, actually presided over the economy that he crashed. Do you generally prefer hypotheticals to factual actions or do they just help you keep from focusing on the pain of lacking a reason and strategy for governing the offices that Republicans seek?
is there some denying the observation that Sarah uses her kids? can you with a straight face say that she doesn't and isn't?
I don't know if Palin uses her kids more than other politicians. I do know she uses them more effectively. I also know that some people just can't bear the sight of Palin with a happy smiling Trig, because they know what they would have done if faced with the possibility of a Mongoloid child.
Seclusion?!
Oh no he di'n't!
Yow! Do you think he really meant that or was it the poorest word choice of all time?
Andrew, you owe yourself a face palm.
I'm afraid the only Sullivan facepalm we're going to get out of this is "OMG, did I implicitly admit that Trig is Sarah's son after all?"
Big Gov...The second option sounds about right. Just call it the vision thing. Some people use wisdom, which is a vision thing. That is who we need to Preside over our Government in DC. The scriptures identify a great leader as a righteous person who listens to no liars and takes no bribes. Have you seen one of those in or around DC lately?
Why do journalists think they are experts on things they know little about? Sullivan is a gay, childless magazine writer yet he can't keep his mouth shut about a mother of five who happens to be a national political figure.
How dare Andrew Sullivan raise the virtue of a sense of privacy! Everyone knows that propriety has lost all meaning to today's conservative activists!
I don't think Sullivan meant that Palin's kid(s) should be kept as secluded as she keeps her medical records. Just capable of believing that her parents value them for reasons other than how much they raise her celebrity profile.
This lady really is like the Beatles to you. Has she also become, to quote John Lennon, "bigger than Jesus"?
Sullivan wants so bad to find a WombGate to bring down a sitting GOP star...like Nixon had his Deep Throat problem, Sullivan dreams of being Sarah Palin's Deep Reproductive problem. And he was so close, but no cigar.
From the looks of things, the first time she ever grabbed a fishing rod might have been for this tv show.
This is like the comment that we saw earlier so much that she had never shot a gun before - ignoring that the Palins' honeymoon was a hunting trip.
Of course, it is her husband, Todd, who is the consummate outdoors person. It is he who races snow machines across the frozen Arctic night, brings much of the wild game to the table, whose family has the fishing business, and who brings the Native Alaskan blood into the family.
But so what? Men have always been more outdoorsy than women (and, if you really need to see an example of this, visit Barrow, and see the difference between the men and women there). It has been that way for millions of years. The men hunt, and the woman tend to stay at home, cooking up what their menfolk bring back. So what if Sarah Palin has spent more time indoors than her husband, cooking up all that meat and fish that he brings back? She obviously enjoys Alaska outdoors, and that is what she is bringing to the American public.
BTW - as to my last post - I was not suggesting that women can't and don't enjoy hunting and fishing, but rather, that men are, on average, genetically programmed to enjoy it more.
What a hypocritical creep! Downies should be closeted!? Downies can be taught to function in society, hold down jobs and such. They may not earn PhDs, but they're okay. They've got a sweetness that is unparalleled.
Wow. I knew that the rabid left hated Palin for not abort her child but this is getting ridiculous.
Andy, it seems, is another one of those homosexuals who hates "breeders" (i.e., normal people), so he goes after Miss Sarah - and makes an ass of himself in the process.
As several have mentioned, the Demos' kids get a free ride - and are "used" at least as much.
PS Keith Ubermoronn has designated Bristol Palin Worst Person in the World (I thought he was discontinuing that) for her abstinence PSA. Wonder if he knows Andy?
Bruce Hayden, Christina Hoff Somers would say that men are hard-wired that way, and we are damn fools for trying to change them. I second that.
I don't think Sullivan meant that Palin's kid(s) should be kept as secluded as she keeps her medical records. Just capable of believing that her parents value them for reasons other than how much they raise her celebrity profile.
Well, I do believe that we have seen more of her medical records than we have of our President's. But, then again, we haven't seen his original birth certificate yet either.
But I do think that your suggestion that the kids are there primarily as props is, to say the least, ludicrous. I think that only someone with serious pre-conceived notions in this area could come away with any opinion other than that the Palins have a very loving family after watching them all together.
I do find this idea on the left troubling. Apparently, what a "good" parent in politics should do is spend as little time with them as possible, making sure that they don't miss a day of school in their ultra-exclusive prep school, etc. And, so, Sarah Palin is somehow viewed as inadequate as a mother because she brings much of her family along when she travels.
Maybe, just maybe, the Palins enjoy parenting their kids. And, maybe they just think that they can do a better job than the government or an exclusive private school can do in this area. And, maybe they believe that parenting is part of being a parent.
I know that this all is heresy on the left. But, a lot of Americans actually believe this nonsense.
You are Trig's parent, Bruce. The entire Tea Party Republican base comprises the village that raises Trig. Together. As one. No need for government. The socialist paradise that raises Palin's kids consist of Palin (she fights too much with her husband for him to matter), her adoring devotees, and the Fox News shows that facilitate this collectivist celebrity circus.
Enjoy the fifteen minutes.
That's right. How dare the Palins spend time with their kids doing fun stuff.
Those little bastards should be in boarding school like AL Gore or the Kennedys.
Bruce Hayden, Christina Hoff Somers would say that men are hard-wired that way, and we are damn fools for trying to change them. I second that.
I am not as dogmatic as that, which is why I included the proviso about it being a strong tendency. I know women who like to hunt and/or fish much more than I do (I don't like either), and women who love the outdoors more than I do (I do love that though - I love Colorado where I grew up, adore Alaska and western Canada, and prefer living close to nature, as I do now in NW Nevada).
Heck - my mother spent more of her life hiking in Colorado than my father ever has. She spent 25 years in a hiking club that hiked or cross-country skied every Thursday, while my father went to work as an attorney.
It is pretty amazing how Sarah Palin is reaching normal everyday Americans over the heads of the media and the self proclaimed intellectual elites.
It is flying right over Andy's head. He just doesn't get it.
Hey hd I heard there was an earthquake in South Hampton today.
I hope you are ok.
What happened? Did you pay your taxes?
Big Gov...It has already gone on for 15 months, and she is already at orbital speed, while the rest of the politicos are still on their launch pads busily replacing their old fashioned boosters.
Why not be out and proud about the Palin kids, Althouse asks? I can understand not pushing a downs child to the background to ensure he is integrated into the family. Good for that , but often the children seem like such an obvious prop-- anybody remember Levi and Bristol charade with hints of a DC wedding?
And so often the Palin narrative/myth runs counter to what is happening: Track hardly seems ready to be captain of the fleet, as she claims. But then, I see this as an infomercial so why be so critical or excited about the brand?
Is BGTDOY Ritmo?
Sarah Palin has done what parents in the real world do. They accept their kids as they are and just love them and keep on living.
When you have a downs child you suck it up and do the best you can. Trig has downs, he's not some fragile thing.
When your daughter gets pregnant out of wedlock you get mad and then help her the best you can. Then you love your grandchild with all of your heart.
That's what real people do. Of course Obama wouldn't want to burden his daughters with a pregnancy or probably wouldn't want to have the burden of a downs child.
always pay them trooper...my wife is an x treasury agent.
yes there was actually ...around 11 this morning. wasn't much. slight shaking. over in a second.
i was pretty sure it was a republican having an original thought but alas, the earth shook for natural reasons.
Yep. Normal activities. Every parent raises their kids to be casually viewed every day by 60 million adoring Tea Partiers, who view her as The Salvation!!
At the PTA they have sign-up sheets for group exercises in broadcast exhibitionism.
Welcome to Tea Party world. America at its crassest and least circumspect. That's just what raising a kid in America is all about now. Don'tcha know?
Once Palin is dead, her confused, all-grown up kid will reach out to a camera lens, gaze into the reflective coating, and shout into it: "Love me!"
Where will all you Tea Party dipsticks be then? $20 says that you throw him under the bus and tell him to lift himself up by his bootstraps. The love you gave him was instrumental; just a by-product of worshiping a fertility goddess and elevating a person more ordinary than spit to the national political stage - just for the hell of it. Because worshiping stuffy old men - like the regular Republican bigwigs - got boring, I guess.
60 million Tea Partiers love Trig so that depressed Sarah Palin doesn't have to. It's a big job, don'tcha know? Raising a kid on your own without the support of 60 million Americans. Like being a full-term governor or something! Very stressful!!!
Just admit that you've become socialist supporters - of a single beneficiary.
Do keep that love coming Trig's way. His mother doesn't have enough for him and can't do it without your support.
It's the Lefties that throw people under the bus.
Witness The Zero.
No Ed. You're confusing the parting of ways or interests with disloyalty.
But keep up the right-wing habit of supporting lost causes til the dying end. Rage against the dying of that light!!! Rage!!!
I like Sarah Palin. I would probably vote for her...but I must admit that her new show makes her seem somewhat less presidential.(Sorry to get off topic, but Andrew is such a bore)
Big Gov...Your rant at 9:51 was a work of art. That's why I enjoy you so much; like the comment"... elevating a person more ordinary than spit to the national political stage..." is an award winning line every bit as good as Tina Fey's work. Do you remember Piper giving Trig's hair a spit bath at the GOP convention? So much spit but not a hater in the family. Sarah has her eye on the prize and will not be deterred by liberals or RINOs spitting in her face with their bluest blooded warm spit.
Althouse, you're right. "Chad" is a Moby-type troll who recently posted comments here as "Mississippi Truck Driving Man", pointing to the same (unavailable) Blogger profile.
Gawd, you'd think these super-geniuses wouldn't be such dumbasses.
Down Syndrome children used to be institutionalized. My mother was a registered nurse, and when I was young, I saw a "mongoloid" child (as they were then called). She told me they have a very short life expectancy, about 21 years. (In the late 20's, they lived about 9 years.)
They died young because they were institutionalized. Now that they can be "out and proud", they live much longer, many past age 50.
Andrew Sullivan wants Sarah Palin to seclude her son so he can die young. Andrew Sullivan is an ass.
I am the hearing mother of a deaf son and daughter of deaf parents. I am deeply offended by Andrew Sullivan's conviction that a handicap or special needs child is to be kept in "seclusion".
Hitler also had such a plan for the deaf and other special needs folks (in addition to Jews). He kept them in "seclusion" in concentration camps so they wouldn't foul his perception of the "perfect" gene pool. And look at the society he created.
We are Americans. We are open and caring. We don't hide and discriminate. We often manage to turn handicaps into opportunities and live fulfilled and purposeful lives. Keeping handicapped children or adults in seclusion is not the answer to the world's ills. Just the opposite. Including them makes the world a better place. Frequently it is those that who are "handicapped" that show the rest of us how life's obstacles can be tackled with perseverance and good nature.
Further, why should parents of special need children be obligated to live their lives providing "constant loving care" in seclusion with their special needs children? Many of us manage to provide that constant loving care quite well in full view of society and do so proudly, unashamed of our children. And indeed our supposedly "less than perfect" children (or parents) end up making the world a far better place. I can't tell you how many perfectly normal hearing people have told me that my deaf parents or son were an inspiration to them and how thankful they were to have had them in their lives. How would this have happened in Andrew Sullivan's "secluded" world where children like Trig, or my own family, are kept in hiding?
What a sad, sad, miserable man Andrew Sullivan is.
Seclusion indeed! Sully needs to go into seclusion and keep his hateful bigoted comments to himself.
Big Gov't Trickling Down on You said...
Suicide bombers have steel in their spine and a vision as well.
Cowards do not have steel in their spine. That you would suggest otherwise implies that you are nothing more than a terrorist sympathizing coward yourself.
That you continue on with your less than ignorant comments suggests you're nothing more than an attention whore yourself.
You can go back to your search for sully's ball sac now.
I thought at the time that accepting the VP nomination with all of those kids and a young baby was a poor choice.
And then I thought of it this way: how can I best provide for my family, and ensure that Trig has the best possible life? As a sooner-or-later-ex-governor of AK? Or as a possible Vice President of the US?
Before the Left started trying to destroy her and before she rose from its ashes, it's clear that for her family, there is no question that the opportunities for them could only grow by accepting that nomination.
Sullivan's a tedious prat.
Here's another large boisterous family that embraces their Downs member. Ree's posts about her Brother Mike are honest, funny and touching.
Hundreds of thousands of families are raising mentally and/or physically challenged children, often in trying conditions, with humor and grace.
Pity the left couldn't summon up a bit of grace as well.
I don't care for a reality-TV politician, and I'm not taken with Palin's family and their relentless publicity hounding. They're sort of the Britney Spears of politics these days.
Mike Lukovich nails it in this cartoon .
None of that makes Andrew Sullivan's take any less cretinous, however.
I do find this idea on the left troubling. Apparently, what a "good" parent in politics should do is spend as little time with them as possible, making sure that they don't miss a day of school in their ultra-exclusive prep school, etc. And, so, Sarah Palin is somehow viewed as inadequate as a mother because she brings much of her family along when she travels.
Pooh, they're not even that principled.
They have no problem when a family pulls its kids out of school to sail around the world, or raise them in a commune, or knock on doors in election season to promote Democratic candidates.
Nor do they object when Obama repeatedly brings his own kids on stage, or holds a press conference at a daughter's birthday party.
These criticisms are merely tools of cynical political gutter warfare, to be used to drive a wedge between Sarah Palin and low-information female voters.
Because worshiping stuffy old men - like the regular Republican bigwigs - got boring, I guess.
Exclude women and it's sexism.
Include them and it's tokenism.
Why should we pay the least attention to the Left's inane criticism anymore? Have we not been called enough names that it should no longer bother us?
It's a very good thing God is so loving and forgiving to offer us redemption, and operates with His own very un-human ideas about justice; because it means Andrew Sullivan may yet be forgiven for the horrendous sins he has committed against not just Sarah Palin but her tiny son Trig.
Yep it's a good thing for A.S. that he's got time to repent. Because if God had, say, MY sense of justice, Sullivan's putrescent soul would already be locked into an eternity of wretched torments unimaginable in their terror and ferocity; which would be interrupted only by his occasional reincarnation as a special needs infant who has the terrible misfortune to be born to a woman who is hated for her political beliefs by a spite-filled and vicious man with a soul just as twisted by hate as Sullivan's.
I don't think Sullivan meant that Palin's kid(s) should be kept as secluded as Obama keeps his college records.
ftfy
Caroline and John-John got a fair bit of media play in their day -- wasn't there a Caroline Kennedy doll, even?
No one I know gives a flea's butt for the thoughts of Andrew Sullivan.
As far as Mathmom's assertion -- There was a Downs syndrome kid in my first grade class, and he was there all eight years. He never spoke much, just hung out on the periphery of any group and listened. I see by his SSDI record that he died at age 19.
Jdkchem reveals his homophobia:
You can go back to your search for sully's ball sac now.
TG, what were you saying about not an ounce of hatred among those Palins? Especially the one who calling her classmate a "faggot" on Facebook?
That's the kind of good will and cheer you must think we all need more of, I suppose.
Professor,
For the first time in the time I have read blogs, I truly, madly, deeply want to smack Andrew Sullivan in the face.
I'm not the parent of a child with Down Syndrome; however, if I were, I'd be asking for... no, DEMANDING the Atlantic to give me his proverbial head on a sliver platter. How far is "too far"? This far. Seclusion?!?!?
The Kennedys secluded Rosemary in some institution for decades, until she breathed her last. Yet, people still call them a "decent family". Yeah, sure. And Mary Joe "just fell" into the pond...
If there is anything the Palins have shown regarding little Trig, from the moment his first picture was taken, is that they are NOT ASHAMED of their son. That's quite refreshing to see, in this day and age when statistics say that about 90 percent of Down Syndrome children in utero don't ever see their birthday.
Trig is not some ugly being to be hidden inside some walls like a dirty pair of underwear. And yet Sullivan has dared to throw dirt on him, his parents and the rest of his family from day one. If he could only leave them alone... but no. This time, I believe he has gone too far.
Sullivan's Trig-trutherism is shameful enough. But his latest diatribe shows to me that he is not willing to extend to others, especially the most vulnerable and innocent, the compassion he expects for his sorry self. His arrogance and shamelessness knows no limits, yet he expects people to like him because he's in the "in" crowd...
If I were the parent of such a child, I'd be e-mailing and tweeting every single friend, associate, or ally and then some to demand action from The Atlantic, as well as a heart-felt, public, and totally repentant apology from Sullivan.
I won't hold my breath, though. I understand that being a creep is for life...
@Big Govt
Especially the one who calling her classmate a "faggot" on Facebook?
Oh for Pete's sake, Willow Palin is 14 years old. You never said or wrote anything stupid when you were 14?
Riiight.
But then I'm sure you don't see the irony in your comment either.
The difference:
I haven't watched the Palin Alaska show, but have seen ads for it. The latest is Palin and her dad stalking and I would imagine, Sarah shooting a caribou. What caught my eye was Sarah's hat. A hunting hat, nothing fancy, but something practical. She's probably had it for a while. Then, I remembered Hillary Clinton showing up on tv announcing she was running for NY Senate seat. Looking like an absolute idiot, she put on a NY Yankees hat. What a fraud. Think she wears it often?
Sullivan may be a punk, but an issue remains: Did Sarah Palin know, or not, that Trig had Downs when she was knocked up? She should have aborted, immediately. In fact, make it law.
I believe Andrew is right. We need more seclusion. I nominate Andrew for an extended period of seclusion. Say, 7 years? 10? Do I hear 25?
...most of them are mildly rebellious.
I raise(d) my children to be mildly rebellious, at the least. It's a healthy quality.
For a couple of years, one of the student managers on my son's football team was a Down's Syndrome boy. It was a great experience for the team and the boy. The team members learned a lot about dealing with a Down's Syndrome person and all liked him. And, of course, the Down's Syndrome boy learned about being productive in the real world, helping others, making lots of friends, and enjoying the teams success rather than being hidden away like someone to be ashamed of.
Sullivan needs to hide in a closet.
As far as Mathmom's assertion -- There was a Downs syndrome kid in my first grade class, and he was there all eight years. He never spoke much, just hung out on the periphery of any group and listened. I see by his SSDI record that he died at age 19.
Ummm...so what? You think you can refute a statement about average life expectancy with one anecdote?
Oh for Pete's sake, Willow Palin is 14 years old. You never said or wrote anything stupid when you were 14?
Amen. My youngest daughter is 14. I'm a friend of her's on Facebook and browse through the posts nearly every day. Someone calling someone "gay" is common.
I wonder if all the focus on gays the past couple of decades has contributed to this. When I was in high school you could get punched for calling someone a "queer". Nowadays, they just laugh it off. But, they are much more aware of "gayness" from all the stuff they see on TV.
I just can't imagine anyone getting enraged over the perfectly normal things we see on "Sarah Palin's Alaska." I agree with Kensington that one of the interesting things about the show is that the kids are so absolutely normal, to the point of being slightly rebellious, young people. And Todd and Sarah accept them as they are.
What's also fascinating is to see that "normal" for members of the extended Palin clan, is summer at the fishing camp, surrounded by cousins and aunts and family friends. I never got the sense that Willow went out fishing just to look all down-homey for the cameras. Rather that this is what the family does -- has always done.
You are reminded that there is a continuity here. That Sarah Palin didn't just appear one day, a right-wing media creation, but that she has been anonymously engaging in these activities for quite some time.
Sully and others on the left behave as if "Flyover Country" is as artificial as a television show. Ironically, it takes a television show to remind people that for many this sort of life is reality.
I wish I understood the roots of the left's rage against women like Sarah Palin.
J:
I agree, I think that we should require all undesirables to be aborted. If Hitler had only chosen to force pregnant Jewish women to have abortions when they got pregnant he could have avoided that messy death camp thing and had an additional manpower pool with which to conquer the world.
Thank God Democrats never use their kids as props. Can you imagine forcing a little kid to salute as his dead father's cortege passed? For a fucking photo op? That would be despicable.
You think you can refute a statement about average life expectancy with one anecdote?
Raising Down Syndrome kids as part of the community is not going to make them live to be 50.
"Think of how the press — including you — regards those daughters as off-limits but goes after Palin's daughters."
BS, pure BS. If Obama started putting his daughters in front of the media the media would be more than happy to flock to them. Obama's daughters aren't 'off limits' because the media is too nice to touch them. Palin puts her kids in front of the media and uses them for her own gain.
I for one am sick of her using her kids as human shields in her press wars.
Raising Down Syndrome kids as part of the community is not going to make them live to be 50.
Not each and every one of them, no. But life expectancies have definitely improved since we stopped warehousing mentally handicapped kids in sterile, uncaring institutions and started keeping them together with their families. No doubt in my mind about that. I have a 21 year old autistic boy with a mental age of about 3 or 4 and shudder to think of what his life would be like if had been shunted off to some mental hospital at an early age like special kids used to be.
How old do you think you'll live to be, fls? 30?
Furthermore, fls, I'll bet that that Palin child with Downs Syndrome will have a happier life than you are having now. I know this for a fact, because every time you comment you seem to be not in a good mood. Cholic might have something to do about it, but still.
I'll bet that that Palin child with Downs Syndrome will have a happier life than you are having now.
Fine, but what does that have to do with Mathmom's comment?
Down syndrome people don't die young because they have low IQs -- they die young because they have something wrong with their bodies.
I for one am sick of her using her kids as human shields in her press wars.
It's a cute turn of phrase, but I have no idea what it means. How, exactly, does she use her children as "shields"?
Maguro --
You have my respect and much serious admiration.
May you and your family be blessed. It would seem your son has been.
FLS: "There was a Downs syndrome kid in my first grade class, and he was there all eight years."
Dude!! Thanks for clearing up what we all suspected. This is a gracious and courageous admission.
Uh oh, Jerryofva with the usual Hitler non sequitur. Why, anyone who suggests that we abort fetuses known to have Downs syndrome thereby approves of the nazi's final solution. That said, Trigs painlessly euthanized may not be the worst solution (tho many a mama with retarded kids gets a hefty check from the govt. I wager even Miss Palin does....talking point time).
former law student -
I'm confused by your post. Are you my age, 56, and therefore are saying that the Down's child in your experience died at the expected age? Or what? That he was "out and proud" but died anyway?
My little brother died at age 4 of prostate cancer. He is probably the only one in the world. Prostate cancer kills old men, not 4-year-olds. But it killed my brother.
J: Well you prove, if you are serious, the point that many of us have made regarding the insanely out of proportion liberal hatred of Palin deriving from her failure to abort Trig. Abortion, after all, is the most important tenet of modern liberalism and abortion is the very thing to prevent the inconvenience of a Down's Syndrome baby. To not avail herself of that easy solution and then to actually have the effrontery to put the deformed little creature out in front of people is just too much. Isn't it?
Sarah Palin jumped the shark long ago
however, she's still chum for liberal sharks
and
a bright shiny object for many conservatives.
I don't watch the show (SURPRISE) but the link notes that Kate Gosselin is an upcoming guest.
Now there's a family values kinda gal!
The life expectancy for people with Down syndrome has increased substantially. In 1929, the average life span of a person with Down syndrome was nine years. Today, it is common for a person with Down syndrome to live to age fifty and beyond. In addition to living longer, people with Down syndrome are now living fuller, richer lives than ever before as family members and contributors to their community. Many people with Down syndrome form meaningful relationships and eventually marry.
From Facts About Down Syndrome.
And yes, being in the community and not warehoused with inadequate care and no prospects does indeed contribute to the longer life span. Do you remember reading about the Romanian orphans who were developmentally disabled, though they were born normal, because they were in orphanages confined to cribs, with no one to pick them up and hold them and talk to them. If they were rescued fairly early from this hell, they could be saved. But they lose the ability to bond and develop normally if they are left too long.
Don't have kids, eh?
Raising Down Syndrome kids as part of the community is not going to make them live to be 50.
Some live to that age and greater. When working at a mental health center, I worked with one Down's Syndrome lady over 60 and several over 50.
I've watched the past couple of weeks and just didn't find it very interesting. It just isn't a very good show, in my opinion.
I guess that makes me a stupid faggot.
I am afraid you have tripped yourself up on Godwin's Law. It only applies when using a Hitler analogy in a non-Hitler situation. Forcing abortion/and or euthanizing lives not worth living as you suggest for Down's syndrome babies is something that Hitler actually did. So using a Hitler analogy in this case actually fits the bills
Zo, Seig Heil mein herr J.
Given that Mark Burnett is the producer of Palin's show, it will be interesting to see how he incorporates Kate Gosselin (which I gather was merely a cross-promotional stunt that TLC insisted on).
So, according to Andrew "The Gynecologist" Sullivan, we should return to the days when Down's Syndrome babies and crazy aunts were kept in the attic out of shame. Smooth, Andy.
Well Mikey, you've proven you don't know how to read. And you depend on the usual Re-tardican generalizations (including the typical Althouse okie-ad populus).
Im not a Demo actually (or GOP). But I do support abortion rights, first trimester at least. Many normal women would abort-- and have aborted-- a fetus known to have Downs syndrome (or other diseases/). That's the proper course of action--a kinder, gentler form of euthanasia, bruder.
"Raising Down Syndrome kids as part of the community is not going to make them live to be 50."
I'm sorry, is being used as a prop for campaign speeches and reality TV shows being 'part of the community'?
Last Saturday I took my special needs son to a local cafe for lunch. When I wheeled him up to a table, an older woman who just sat down at the next table looked at us in horror. She picked up all her packages and food a moved to a table on the other side of the restaurant. I was genuinely puzzled by her motivation until she came back for her purse which had a large DFL button on the strap (DFL is Minnesotan for Democrat).
When I left this thread yesterday it was the normal bullshit with the usual suspects.
But reading it today, I can see that we have some new really loathsome trolls that are far beyond the pale of what was normally acceptable discourse.
To assert that Downs Syndrome babies should be murdered in their mothers womb indicates that Andrew Sullivan himself is posting here.
He is one of the few people who would be so vile and despicable.
It is sad to realize that such people exist.
"He is one of the few people who would be so vile and despicable."
Except he has never written any such thing, in fact has said quite the opposite.
But that's the victimization card Palin and her cultists have learned to play so well. Palin asserts that her 'record' as a mom is so wonderful she deserves our support. Yet if you criticize that record....why it can only be because you want little Trig euthanized!
booton:
If I direct the kind of tripe you write about Palin's family towards the current first family you would cry RACISM! Liberals are bullies they can dish it out but run away like (pardom me Ann) little sissies when someone hits back.
(By the way Herr J thinks euthenization and forced abortion of inferiors is a good idea.)
Andrew Sullivan writes:
"There was also a rather moving segment with Sarah Palin brought close to tears by the thought of Trig growing up like another, older child with Down Syndrome that we met. I remain as always in awe of those who seek to rear and love children with special needs; and I think the show is worthwhile if only to provide a glimpse (an obviously manicured and propagandized glimpse) of what that means. No, my desire to know the facts behind the pregnancy and labor and birth has not faltered (it's my job to scrutinize strange claims by public figures). But I was moved nonetheless - and if I was moved, other surely will be. Whatever else you say about her, rearing Trig - and including him fully in family outings - is a blessed thing to do."
I am only speculating that Mr. Sullivan is posting as "j" since he seems to reflect his sensibility and that of people like you bouton.
Andrew Sullivan by this post proves once again that he is a vile and stupid person who should long since been ignored by the rest of society.
Of course now as woof shows us, he will try to backtrack but his true feelings were displayed before he got the pushback.
He remains despicable and vile.
jerryofva
"If I direct the kind of tripe you write about Palin's family towards the current first family you would cry RACISM!..."
Notice the victimization jig here. I said nothing about Palin's family, I criticized Palin herself. But that gets morphed into attacking her family (no doubt jerry will be happy to accuse me next of wanting to kill cute little Trig!).
Here's exhibit A for the guy who wanted to see Palin and her cultists using her kids as human shields.
Boonton:
We get it. You hate Palin. You think she is stupid. There is nothing she can do to change your mind. (Not that she would care)
"You think she is stupid. There is nothing she can do to change your mind. "
Actually I didn't say she was stupid. But then why bother reading what I actually write and responding to taht when your imagination is so much more fun.
Keep drinking that Kool Aid.
I still want to know what her "human shield" offspring actually shield her from. Criticism? Heh. They're pretty ineffective shields.
Palin's critics want to see her children as constructs not as people. If they didn't want to be part of the show they wouldn't do it. There are plenty of instances where some of the family in a reality show refuse to participate. (See Real Housewives of New Jersey, or the Osbournes where one of the daughters refused to be on the show).
These kids seem pretty bright and aware and I bet they think it is fun.
I do agree that once they signed on to do the show they can be subjected to legitimate criticism of their behavior on the show.
But suggesting that they be secluded or hidden away like someone in Jane Eyre or aborted can not in even the most "liberal" stretch of the imagination be construed as legitimate critism or anything more than vile and meanspirited.
Which should be what Mr. Sullivan should use as the masthead of his pitiful blog.
"But suggesting that they be secluded or hidden away like someone in Jane Eyre or aborted ..."
I suggest the Palin cultists here, like you, actually read the Sullivan post that's in question.
1. No one has ever said any of her kid should have been aborted. No one.
2. Sullivan never said her kids should be secluded. Palin asserted to Glenn Beck that she is a victim of a double standard. That her kids are in the spot light just as other political kids (of 'male politicians' let's keep the politically correct victim mau mauing going here) AND she's just defending herself against attacks made on her kids.
In reponse Sullivan criticized her treatment of ALL her kids, starting with her daughter and even including using her son as a prop for veterns issues... You can disagree with his criticisms but clearly Palin is lying here. Putting your kids on reality shows, getting into silly facebook battles with their friends and lovers etc. is not 'just like' other politicans like Bush and Obama. More importantly, Sullivan isn't singling out Trig. He is talking about the way she treats all of her children, not just the baby with Downs.
But keep up the lies, the Kool Aid tastes good I'm sure.
Boonton: "No one has ever said any of her kid should have been aborted. No one." Actually "J" did, just above. I am sure he is just one of legions of very creepy people who hold this view.
Boonton how can you lie with a straight face. As Michael just said, the new troll "j" just flat out said that Trig should be aborted. I am quite certain that is how Randy Andy, you and most others of your ilk really feel in the stone that you call a heart.
The love that the Palin's have for their child shines through in this show. It is the reason why she is reaching over the heads of the main stream media and the social elites to talk to regular normal Americans. Sarah Palin is willing to put it out there for regular people to see that she is not what the haters paint her to be.
But keep on hating buddy. You expose yourself more and more just as Randy Andy has done.
Raising Down Syndrome kids as part of the community is not going to make them live to be 50.
And?
What business is it of yours?
That she has gone so far as to use and thereby abuse a child with Down Syndrome whose interests are clearly in seclusion, careful nurturing and care, and constant parental attention, tells you a huge amount.
Um, what would an HIV positive gay man know about raising children?
J said;
Many normal women would abort-- and have aborted-- a fetus known to have Downs syndrome (or other diseases/). That's the proper course of action--a kinder, gentler form of euthanasia, bruder.
Gosh a newer version of abortion on demand:
I demand you have an abortion
Sounds like a brave new world to me.
Trooper, thank you for your 11:31 AM comment.
What is really driving people like Andrew Sullivan crazy is that Sarah Palin is not using the conventional means of communicating with the public that they control. She is not going on "Meet the Liberal Press" or "Face the Conventional Wisdom of the Beltway."
Instead she is using the new media. Facebook. Twitter. Reality Shows. She is speaking over the head of the mainstream media and the cultural elites to reach normal everyday Americans who they either dispise or condescend to in their heart of hearts. They think reality shows are beneath contempt and the people who watch them are fools.
They think only the people who are on borefests like Charlie Rose are worth listening to.
Well Sarah knows that is bullshit. And so do I.
Everything you need to learn about life you can learn from reality shows.
That is despize. Sorry for the spelling.
Regular guys don't need to know how to spell.
Well except for dese, dose and dem.
Many normal women would abort-- and have aborted-- a fetus known to have Downs syndrome (or other diseases/). That's the proper course of action--
And um, who appointed you the czar of "proper" again?
Boonton:
The only person who is drinking koolaid is you. Koolaid is a liberal's drink hence the Kool in the name.
In fact one of the best test for potential American Presidents is to be a guest judge on American Idol.
You would get to see how they deal with all kinds of people. You know how to handle deluded fools without a firm graspe of reality. Perfect for learning how to deal with Congress.
I mean if you can handle some of the crazy loons on Idol with aplomb than dealing with Korean dictators would be a piece of cake.
1. No one has ever said any of her kid should have been aborted. No one.
Really?
J said...
Sullivan may be a punk, but an issue remains: Did Sarah Palin know, or not, that Trig had Downs when she was knocked up? She should have aborted, immediately. In fact, make it law.
12/1/10 7:28 AM
You mean other than that idiot lefist, right?
I mean could you imagine Barack Obama being a judge on American Idol?
How nasty and mean do you think he would be?
Just look at how he acted towards Hillary in the primary.
And would he need a teleprompter or would he just rely on stock phrases like "Yeah Dawg" and the like?
Now if Romney was a judge on American Idol, would he ask them to sing a hymn?
What if Hillary were a judge?
Would she ask "If you get famous and win and stuff would you cheat on your wife?"
Would John McCain ask them to not ask or not tell if they were gay?
I mean I know he doesn't want gays in the military but how would he feel about gays in American Idol?
And I mean do you really have to ask someone like Adam Lambert or what?
Would Al Gore ask them how they feel about polar bears and if they would give him a massage?
A really, really good massage?
Are all people on the left idiots? Seriously, look at the ones that show up on this blog. Look at the latest two, Boonton and J.
Allen S: I know a number of liberals who are people of good faith and generally good cheer. They are often deluded, irrationally, on topics like Palin or on commonly held tenets of liberalism such as republicans being racists. That said,the ones I know are OK with a bit of patience.
A few, if not most, of the liberals who post here appear to be very unhappy people who have not taken charge of their own lives. They appear angry, immature and frequently deranged. Mostly unhappy.
Good Lord, I do not like Andrew Sullivan. However, Bush did not hide his children away. Once he became president and people flew planes into buildings the secret service hid them away to some extent.
I know that Palin is very different from the Kennedys, but the Kennedys also made their children part of the story. I do think that people have taken unfair shots at Palin's children, but then again, those kids are out there in public. That does not make it okay, but it is predictable.
Palin leads a very public life, she is everywhere, that means people will talk about her and her family. It is inevitable.
Jay-boy, you didn't quite understand my comments, did you. What's worse: a retarded, useless child costing thousands to parents and society, or a simple abortion of the deformed fetus? (Hint: the latter). And that's not especially "leftist"--in fact, rather Darwinian (and also one of the blessings of modern science--ie scans which allow us to eliminate nature's mistakes). The leftists are the sentimentalists and religious--and that's who Palin appeals to with her endless Mama Grizzly act.
Thanks for playing "j", I think
we have you sussed.
Matter of fact, you don't Snitch York. Yr another white trash bag of scheisse, like most of Miss A's regs. Then yr mama was too, so to be expected.
Step in a ring, hick. Ellay style, puto. 405 and Roscoe. Capichay?
Now, lets say it again: Euthanize Trig, too-day.
Why don't get upset guy. I just want to welcome your contribution. You are a worthy addition to their team. I hope AlphaLiberal, hd, Jeremy and the rest of the gang are glad they have you.
Who? Don't know 'em, jew-trooper. Im an independent, puto. And you're another Kissinger, which is to say _____________
Oh boy. Never mind "J" sorry to have interacted with you.
Enjoy.
from J's profile:
it is precisely in the case of ideas found most offensive that these rights must be most vigorously defended."""(Noam Chomsky)
Well you definitely have the "most offensive" part right.
Garage, FLS, HDHouse, Jay retread, LoafingOaf, Big Gov't et al, chime in here anytime.
FLS, ... chime in here anytime.
Hmmm?? I like babies and toddlers. Now that her two oldest are adults, why shouldn't Sarah have yet another kid? They keep you young.
@Trooper
*Shudder*
It's not just you...after "J's" 4:36 PM post we'll all have to take a shower.
@fls
I see by his SSDI record that he died at age 19.
Did you really go look up this guy on the SSI death list?
Man, that's really creepy.
Fair enough, a mono-lettered commentator on an Internet blog said Downs kids should be aborted. I didn't realize that as long as there was at least one person on the entire internet saying outrageous things about Trig every critic of Sarah Palin must share his guilty blood.
By this reasoning Palin is a racist for opposing Obama. After all I'm sure somewhere someone posted on the Internet that they hate Obama because he's black.
"The love that the Palin's have for their child shines through in this show. It is the reason why she is reaching over the heads of the main stream media and the social elites to talk to regular normal Americans."
Yea I guess you went thru the 80's thinking all those sit-com laugh tracks were really a 'live studio audience'. But that's not what Sullivan was responding too. Glen Beck asked her why she puts her kids in the media. She responded that:
1. She doesn't, she does what every other male politician has does and is being held to a double standard.
2. She doesn't, her family is in the media because she is defending them from outrageous attacks.
Sullivan showed she lied. She doesn't do what other politicians do with their kids and she's the one that puts them in the media. Note the first two paragraphs of his post:
"Where to start? Her first decision was agreeing to run for vice-president with a months' old child with Down Syndrome and a pregnant teenage daughter. You do that, your kids will be at least somewhat in the public eye. But she blindsides the campaign with the teen pregnancy, puts out her own press release about it the Saturday before the convention, and in the same chaotic weekend, the campaign also has to deal with the bizarre details of her one-month public pregnancy and bi-continental, airplane labor with Trig. Anyone one who genuinely cared about the privacy of her kids would have either said no or been extremely careful to release the information as soberly as possible."
"And what happens thereafter? She pushes her daughter into a public spotlight, subsequently making her an abstinence advocate, and supporting her appearance on a reality show. She engages in a public family spat with the father of her grandson, Tripp. And she parades a special needs infant in front of the press, dangles him half-naked in front of book tour crowds, uses him constantly as a rhetorical campaign prop, and cites him at almost every speech to appeal to pro-life voters. She also uses her son, Track, to appeal to veterans and the military. She brings her children with her throughout her now two-year campaign for national office, disturbing their schooling and rendering them vulnerable to further inquiry from the tabloids, even as they strike deal with tabloids for their own stories."
1. Note that he isn't attacking her kids, he is saying HER behavior refutes her claims.
2. He is treating all the kids as equals. He doesn't like her using any of them as campaign props. He isn't saying Trig should be hidden because Downs is 'shameful' while all the other kids get on TV. He is saying all of them are being used by her.
Look maybe you think this is fine. Maybe its just a new way of doing things where you put all your dirty laundry out on Facebook leaving nothing to privacy anymore. Maybe the new way of doing things is your mom argues with your lover in front of the whole world while everyone in the family cuts their own book deal as soon as they turn 18. OK fine maybe that's a new way things will be done in this age but then let's dispense with the victimization mau mauing. For example, if some kid on Facebook says Palin's show sucks and her daughter calls him a faggot don't lie and say the kid 'attacked Trig' as Palin did.
And don't lie about people who take an old school view. Thinking that tossing this out there, nakedly promoting your 'brand' and using your kids as props is trashy rather than 'bypassing the elite' (since when did an Internet blogger, BTW, become the 'media elite') doesn't mean your motivation is to attack teen moms or euthanize Downs babies.
What is really driving people like Andrew Sullivan crazy is that Sarah Palin is not using the conventional means of communicating with the public that they control....Instead she is using the new media. Facebook. Twitter. Reality Shows.
In other words she is using media that she controls. She chooses what is put on the 'reality show'. Critical comments on her Facebook page are mercilessly erased as if they were never written. None of that is new. Stalin had former friends airbrushed out of the pictures in the history books. Ross Perot used Larry King to supposedly 'talk directly' to the American people (i.e. get softball questions so he wouldn't be made to look bad by having to tackle anything critical or tough). (And I remember his "I'm not running unless the American people want me to run, call this 800 number and let me know" which turned out not to be a way to vote on whether you wanted him to run but gave you a recorded message saying your call 'asking him to run' had been tallied)
This is all well and good if Palin cultists just wanted to make her a celebrity....a kind of conservative Lady Gaga or Steven Colbert but they want her to actually have political power and yes it is a bit nerve racking that her cultists have such a sense of entitlement that they think having to field a few tough questions is some type of abuse.
Look I don't really care much about Palin anymore. The joke has long been up, she will never be President and will never win the GOP nomination unless the GOP wants to spend a long period as the 'silly party' of Presidential elections (see the Democratic party during the McGovern period). IMO she isn't neither stupid nor evil. She a huckster whose stumbled upon a formula that works for her, demand credit for identity politics (I am woman, I am mother, honor me for that!) and smash the the victimization button whenever your criticized. She will sell books, get speaker fees and achieve some level of player in the Republican party because of that. She has managed to build a cult of personality around her and pitching herself to white middle class Americans she has made a more numerous cult than others who've played this game before, like, say, Al Sharpton. But she lacks the ability to move beyond the cult. Or more to the point she lacks the maturity and honesty to move beyond the cult. She's comfortable with her cult telling her how wonderful she is and reinforcing her victimization racket that says her critics are just mean people who just hate her for having cute kids. She will not risk that to grow beyond what she is. What you see is what you get, enjoy your TV.
The official WH cum-dumpster, Little Miss Sullivan guzzles again.
I'll agree Palin uses her kids when we stop seeing photos of the current WH Stage Props. And whatever happened to that damned dog they made such a big deal over, because it showed us how just-folks Obama was?
I am a very conservative person, but I will say the GOP should push Palin as far from the spotlight as possible. She is not presidential material. If she wanted to impress me she should be studying the worlds problems and coming up with solutions instead of gutting fish.
Dude, it wasn't just one commenter on the internet. It was one commenter on this very thread. I live in very liberal New York and I hear the "She should have had an abortion" thing all the time. So you are lying or to be kind simply mistaken about nobody thinking or feeling or more importantly wishing that child be aborted.
In any event you can stand on top of the table and hold your dress up and shout "eeek" at Palin's behaviour all you want. You have standards. I can see that. And you want candidates to adhere to your oh so refined sensibilities. Well listen pally, poliitics ain't bean bag. The only thing that counts is if it works.
But the best thing about it is how she drives you crazy.
It's a hoot.
That's nice, mono-lettered internet commentators and random people you claim to have heard off the street say Trig should have been aborted.
This has what to do with Sullivan's blog again? If you and Ann Althouse want to argue with those advocating aborting Trig do it where it is happening, on the walls of NYC mens rooms.
Doug
I am a very conservative person, but I will say the GOP should push Palin as far from the spotlight as possible. She is not presidential material.
What strikes me about her is that its pure identity politics. Contrast Palin's 'love me because I'm a mom' mantra with Dan Quayle's attack on Murphey Brown. What is an interesting difference is that Quayle's attack was not identity based. He said Brown was a bad mother because of her choices. Leave aside the merits of his attack and the fact that Brown is a fictional character, Quayle's attack was merit based. A person who is a mother can either be a good mother or a bad one based on how they do the job. Now its identity based. Being a mother in itself is great, regardless of what you actually do as a mother. Palin's core argument is not just that you should honor her as a mother but that you should elect her as a mother....but to actually examine her the job she does as a mother in a critical way is an attack on motherhood......no wait its actually an attack on the children!
Likewise note how the "I'm a woman" line is tossed around by Palin as well with the assumption always that she is being subjected to a double standard. When Beck asked her why she puts her kids in the media spotlight so much, her immediate claim is that men do it all the time and only she is asked about it. Sullivan demonstrated that was a lie and commentators here reinforce that as they sing Palin's praises for doing media in a totally new and different way. Which is it? If she's doing media in an exciting new way then she's lying when she claims she is just like those stuff old men politicians from ages past.
But keep in mind "I am woman" was a key argument for her in the election. She was supposedly going to pull Hillary voters in...but on what grounds? Pure identity politics and nothing else.
Here again, though, its identity politics. The 'double standard' accusation is tossed around but never actually substantiated or justified. Imagine if Obama spoke this way:
Question: "Republicans say you tax too much"
Obama: "Well consider that taxes today are lower than under Bush or Clinton, two WHITE Presidents!"
Question: "Republicans say the health bill is radical"
Obama: "Well they didn't say that about Mitt Romney's bill, which it is very similiar too with one difference that Mitt is WHITE!"
While each statement is technically true, the snide insuation wouldn't get very far without serious challenge. Palin, though, is pure Affirmative Action for Conservatives.
Hey Boony, I have no argument with Randy Andy. He is clearly off the rails with his obession with Palin and everyone knows it. I imagine you are either Andy himself or are one of his employees. Or perhaps a member of his "cult" as you so elegantly smear anyone who is a fan of Sarah Palin.
I discount anything Mr. Sullivan says as the raving of a lunatic. And you will of course deny that he said that Trig should be in seclusion. I am sure you have a ton of plea bargins and explanations to cover it up. Knock yourself out.
Sarah Palin is just a politican. She will win or lose in the political arena. It remains to be seen how she does. It remains to be seen if her tactic of bypassing scum like Katie Couric and the likes of Andrew Sullivan will resonate with normal Americans. I think it will but that is of course an open question.
I love her (like so many people do) because of her enemies. People like you and Randy Andy.
As long as she gets under your skin I can only sit back and laugh and say "Go Sarah, Go." Hee.
And to attack Sarah Palin because she embodies "identity politics" by using Barack Obama as a counterintutive example is laughable.
Identity politics is the only thing that Obama everh had going for him. That and the feeble McCain candidacy.
So you want an Palin is like Obama tag?
Say what you want, Obama didn't run on a platform of "I'm black". Palin runs on a platform of "I'm a woman and a mom" and nothing else (ohhh yea she avoids Katie Couric, well who can blame her, Katie is clearly a terrifyingly evil force. Clearly no human could be expected to match wits with someone like Katie. Fortunately someone running for VP or President will never be expected to deal with anyone as tough as Ms. Couric!)
Say what you want, Obama didn't run on a platform of "I'm black".
Yes he did. That was his only qualification, stated or not. But his "cult" (much more appropriate for his supporters) cited the fact that he would be the first black president as a great and wonderful thing and really was the only reason many people voted for him.
What really burns your ass is how much Palin is like Obama.
We really need that Palin is like Obama tag. Just sayn'
It is not that Katie Couric is so scary. In fact I have no doubt that Palin could mop the floor with her if she is in a "live" undedited interview. It is the fact that Couric has a platform to spew her slanted liberal bias.
Palin should not sign on to the old way of doing things. Try something different. Screw the main stream media and all of it's hand maidens. Fuck them and the BMW's that they rode in on.
By the way. I encourage all of our regular commentors to follow the link back to "j"s blog and see what a real liberal type of guy is like. It is most instructive reading.
I can understand why he is such a big Andrew Sullivan fan.
Notice that Trooper has no actual reasons for why anyone should support Palin other than a desire to supposedly make Katie Couric mad. AS for Obama running on being black but Palin isn't running on just being a 'mom', well whose web site listed as her #2 qualification for high office ten years as a volunteer for the PTA?
But don't listen to me, I'm clearly deluded by my obvious desire to see Trig aborted as channelled by Trooper's reading of graffeti left on urinals in NYC mens rooms.
There are a lot of policy reasons for voting for Palin.
She is not a socialist like Obama for one and I don't think she wants to take over the entire economy like your guy.
I am sure she is for lower taxes than the tax and spend liberals like you boony. I am sure she doesn't want to take Joe the Plumbers money to be "fair."
I bet she will give a hearig to those bitter clingers hanging on to their guns and religion unlike your good buddy.
But really the one reason, the best reason is that hopefully if she wins....well Andrew Sullivan, Katy Couric, Keith Olberman, Peggy Noonan, Joe Scarbourgh and well you will stroke out.
The we can put you in seclusion since you guys seem to be all for that.
But cheer up. At least there won't be any Death Panels. Hee.
I didn't say that Palin wasn't running on the basis of being a mom. I said she is doing that. Just as Obama did by running as a black man.
And dude, you seem to obessesed with urinals and mens bathrooms. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I think you must really be Andrew Sullivan himself.
Hey, did Sully uncover the Wikileaks confirmation of Trig's real baby mommy?
Not yet?
Keep digging? Like a beagle!
Trooper, The Palin is totally unqualified to do anything. I know nothing of Alaskan politics, but I really have to wonder how she was elected.
I was a huge McCain supporter in 2000 and '08, up until he selected Palin as his running mate. I believe the world would have been a better place if he had beaten W. The second anyone took a close look at here it was obvious was more of a political lightweight than Dan Quayle and more inexperienced than Obama.
I can't understand why you would support someone only because she makes people you dislike angry. Wouldn't it be better to support someone qualified to run the country?
No.
The country will survive even an a fool and an evil socialist like the one who is president now.
And I don't believe that you supported old man McCain.
Anyone see the YouTube video of that hysterical gay guy crying about all the abuse and scrutiny his idol, Brittany Spears was being subjected too? This is it I think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc
Well now Sarah Palin has a fan just like that in Trooper. If most Americans were disgraceful morons like Trooper, I'd say America would deserve a President like Sarah Palin. Fortunately, America is still better than that.....for the time being.
Thanks Boony. I take your remarks as a badge of honor. I know elitist douche bags like you view most of America as "disgraceful morons" and can't understand why they like things like American Idol, reality shows, George W. Bush,trans fat and Sarah Palin. Or Britney Spears for that matter.
So enjoy NPR, PBS, the New York Times, Frank Rich,Margaret Cho, Tina Fey,Keith Olbermann and your tofu lasanga to your hearts content.
By the way, did you know that Bouton is Italian slang for cunt.
All the best,
your pal
Trooper.
I don't really mean to be elitist. I'd be a lot less so if you didn't keep setting the bar so low. It's kinda like how its impossible not to be overdressed if you wander into a nudist convention.
That ok boony. Anybody that can't manage a simple link can not really lay claim to being an elitist.
But thanks for playing and helping to drive another Sarah Palin post to 200 comments.
ALl the best,
Your pal
Trooper.
200!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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