"So I'm drunk at the dinner table at Mother and Dad's house in Maine. And my brothers and sister are there, Laura's there. And I'm sitting next to a beautiful woman, friend of Mother and Dad's," says Bush. "And I said to her out loud, 'What is sex like after 50?' "Why can't adults talk about sex? This is only a story about the depredations of alcohol... but why? Why must conversation be so boring that an interesting question draws "serious daggers"?
After that, one could hear a pin drop. It was "total silence," says Bush. "And not only silence, but like serious daggers" from my mom and my wife.
He says that, with a case of "after-dinner remorses," he later called the woman to apologize. But she got the last laugh. Bush says that on his 50th birthday, when he was Texas governor, the woman sent him a letter reading: "Dear Governor, Well, what's the answer?"
November 6, 2010
That time George Bush — at the dinner table with his wife and parents — said "What is sex like after 50?"
From an interview to air Monday:
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104 comments:
"And I said to her out loud, 'What is sex like after 50?' "
If you're Woody Allen: creepy.
Why can't adults talk about sex?
You will be a 60s hippie to the end of your life, Ann.
This is not really a serious issue. In some cultures and families, people talk about little else except sex. In others, they don't talk about sex.
This has remarkably little to do with their attitudes toward sex or the variety and frequency of their sexual actions.
It's a liberal fantasy that heartfelt, warm talks about sex significantly change people's sexual relationships or behavior.
Well, heartfelt, warm talks about sex does lead people to make movies like "An Unmarried Woman."
Well, heartfelt, warm talks about sex does lead people to make movies like "An Unmarried Woman."
... or, in cases where said "warm talks" go nightmarishly wrong, to movies like The Smurfs and the Magic Flute, or MegaForce.
It doesn't matter what the subject is. Sometimes it's better not to answer any question from someone who is drunk.
Did you ever ask your son, while at the diner table in front of family: "So, what's it like to be a homosexual?"
If you didn't, why not?
I'd think it was more the setting than the subject.
Because in this context (and context is everything) it was a vulgar question. And George W. Bush is right to see asking it as an embarrassing moment for him.
From what I've read so far in the press, this autobiography might actually be more interesting than the average politician's / ex-politician's biography.
The problem was that he was DRUNK when he asked the question. Really bad example for Althouse to use.
It seems like a stupid question to me because I can't see where it takes the conversation.
Possible answers: "It's as good as it ever was, thank you"; or, "Not so great, my husband and I rarely have sex anymore."
Then what--ask for more detail?
Yes. It is tacky to say something like that at the dinner table. Or anywhere, if it's someone you don't know well enough to ask that question and the only person you ask that question is the one you are sleeping with.
My husband's dad told me I could use the shower off their bedroom and my husband could join me if I wanted - that my husband's dad and mom showered together all the time.
I threw up a little bit inside. Boundaries, people. Boundaries.
Then what--ask for more detail?
"Let's move right along to the slide show, shall we? LIGHTS -- !!!"
To put a point on my previous comment:
I've been involved with Filipino women for 25 years. I've spent some time in the Philippines.
Filipino culture is dominated by the Catholic Church. Most Filipinos are devout Catholics. If they're not, they usual devout evangelicals. No person in their right mind would speak openly about sex at the family dinner table.
Maybe later on, over the Mah Jong game, the talk would get a little dicey.
And, believe me, Filipinos are justifiably known for their passionate interest in all things sexual. Being homosexual isn't even an issue, because it is quite commonly assumed that married men sometimes dabble on the other side. Public prostitution is everywhere.
So, what's your point?
I don't think I can talk about this.
Perhaps it had nothing at all to do with sex, but rather with the age of the woman.
That said, another possible answer could have been "after 50 what?"
I did like her letter when he turned 50 though.
What is sex like after fifty?
Slower?
Because it's like everything else to do with sex, if it's not consensual then it's wrong. We don't know because we weren't there but I'm willing to guess that this woman didn't want to talk about sex with the drunken lout sitting next to her and his wife and mother a few chairs away.
I read here fairly regularly and I don't remember any posts from you about your sex life with your new husband. So you need to get going with that, lead us out of our stuffy conventional thinking on this subject.
I read here fairly regularly and I don't remember any posts from you about your sex life with your new husband.
Don't rush to judgment. "Long walks" and "gardening" may just be tactful euphemisms, after all.
The commenters who cited cultural differences are right. Some stuff we just don't talk about, and it varies from one society to another. What if GWB had asked the woman if her bowel habits changed after 50? That topic is just as taboo in America, and I don't hear anyone calling for warm, frank discussions about that.
You'd think that in such an otherwise self-confident family the response to Dubya's admittedly gauche question would be a witty response to deflate the awkward moment rather than dead silence. So the assignment class is...offer one, a clear the air witticism.
I think we don't talk about it, because most of us would never want to be seen doing it. Talking brings imagery no one wants. Sex involves looking, acting, and sounding like an animal, uncontrolled, passionate and lacking the protocols of social dignity. That's what so great about it, if it's kept safe and intimate and private.
Sex involves looking, acting, and sounding like an animal, uncontrolled, passionate and lacking the protocols of social dignity.
Hey! Speak for yourself!
Not when I do it.
Not that I really want to talk about that.
So the assignment class is...offer one, a clear the air witticism.
"What is sex like after 50?"
"All right, but not as good as after a hundred -- that generally gets you two girls."
I dont know in America but here you dont mention a woman ´s age after 25
"So the assignment class is...offer one, a clear the air witticism."
"You'll find out when you grow up, Georgie. Now eat your peas."
Charley Sheehan: "After thirty or forty, they all start looking alike."
Jill Claybourg died today
"Hey! Speak for yourself!
Not when I do it."
You're not doing it right. There are a multitude of videos available online to help...so I'm told.
Dunno Ann. How do you and Meade do it? You like it doggy style?
"I read here fairly regularly and I don't remember any posts from you about your sex life with your new husband"
Ah! Look at the time! Anyone for coffee?
I do not see Ann as a connoisseur of "doggy style."
As a matter of ideological purity, I think she's gotta be on top. She likes to be the boss.
I'd bet on reverse cowgirl.
Of course, there's a time and a place to discuss this, but this wasn't it. Drunks are masterful at being inappropriate, embarrassing and attention grabbing. BTW, that was kind of the point of him asking...
Ann? Ann?
Women are not always that straight foward, Meade.
The clip from "Unmarried Woman" thing seems to have worked its magic on Ann. Seems she's a little randy this morning.
I'd suggest a martini. Forget the coffee.
And please read my post in her second bit about "Unmarried Woman."
We're really having a debate over that age old question: "Why can't somebody make a porn movie with a plot so that both men and women can enjoy it and get off?"
How much do marriage counsellors charge these days? I take checks.
And who sets up the teleprompter in Barack's bedroom?
Indian politicians... who did not wish to be named, sounded rather surprised with the idea of a teleprompter for Obama. "We thought Obama is a trained orator..." (via Drudge)
I'll reproduce my posts here, since I'm proud of it:
So, what we've got is yet another installment in the eternal debate:
"Why can't somebody make a porn movie with a good plot so that both men and women can enjoy it and get off?"
It's been tried. The "Devil in Miss Jones" is probably the triumphant entry in this category. I heartily recommend it.
And, there still isn't a market for it.
The "Devil in Miss Jones" was produced by the Dark Brothers during the early days of the porn industry in San Francisco. Made even more interesting by the fact that one of the Dark Brothers murdered the other brother, and was acquitted. Everybody was coked up to the gills.
"Why can't somebody make a porn movie with a plot so that both men and women can enjoy it and get off?"
Dude. Frankenhooker.
I'll take Meade's answer then as Ann's position on this then...
Shit, Kent,
I've got to get that one.
Correction: That should have been "sexprompter" in Barack's bedroom.
I would propose then having Titus guestblog regarding his more his rather active sex life and the hidden world of "clumbers".
God! All this openness!!! Who wants to see my stretch marks?
I can't remember who said it: Everyone has, at least once in their life, imagined their mother and father having sex. And everyone, after forming that image, has then cringed.
I hate to repost this one, but I'm shameless:
And, I hate to say it, Ann... but... here goes...
Isn't your Dylan obsession sort of in that porn for women category?
Starving hobo musician, who just happens to be a Jewish intellectual, saves the world from injustice by writing stirring protest songs!
With a beautiful blond shiksa on his arm!
Walking down the mean streets of Soho!
Meade, if I was in your shoes... I'd put on "Blonde on Blonde." And, of course, keep that clip from "An Unmarried Woman" going in the background.
This is why multimedia was invented.
One point no one's made is that, for some people, couples who whose only partner in their lives was the other person, for example, it is the most intensely intimate personal experience imaginable (some have described it as spiritual). So it's sacred and you don't joke about it.
And I have to agree again with somefeller (it's gotta be the moon) that being drunk adds a new dimension. The last thing you want many times is Uncle Charlie poking a finger in an old wound just because he's plastered.
There's also the issue that a lot old line WASP families are super proper about such things.
And, Meade, don't forget the martini.
Tanqueray, with an olive, of course.
I know it's early, but what the hell...
"And who sets up the teleprompter in 'Barack's' bedroom?"
LOL! Almost Ali wins the thread!
(He probably uses a check-list too--and neatly folds his slacks over the hanger and places them in the closet a priori.)
"... keep that clip from "An Unmarried Woman" going in the background"
I hate that movie. Kissing what chewing eggs?! Blech!
W. and Laura must have a healthy sex life. I'm cool with that.
Sometimes we say embarrassing things while drunk. Interesting that he admitted it, because he certainly didn't have to. The embarrassing things we say and do weigh us down.
Are we having sex yet?
Better hurry up because the Illinois/Michigan game is on in a half hour.
Old Joke:
What's the purpose of the tramp stamp? (You know, that tattoo girls get on their lower back.)
So you can screw and watch football at the same time.
Why can't adults talk about sex [in social/public settings]?
Maybe because sex is a private concern. Maybe because even the sexual revolutionaries shouted things like "right to privacy, keep out of our bedroom."
There are certain things that are rightly private.
Why not talk about sex in social setttings? For the same reason one would not get naked and have sex out in the open in those social settings. For the same reason why one would not start fondling him/herself whenever they got the urge in public.
Such talk is private, the same way that whatever your gynecologist told you at your last exam is private.
Besides, we have talked about sex to death in social settings. This is, in fact, a hyper-sexualized society. Everywhere one looks, it is sex, sex, sex, sex, sex. Enough already. We are oversaturated with the sex talk -- and far from enhancing our sexuality, far from making sex more intriguing, more interesting, this "all sex all the time" society of ours has degraded sex to such a point that it is ho-hum, droll, and boring.
"Correction: That should have been "sexprompter" in Barack's bedroom."
I think the correct term is "fluffer".
Perhaps the problem wasn't that the question was about sex but that he implied she was over 50.
Perhaps the problem wasn't that the question was about sex but that he implied she was over 50.
FTW.
He was hitting on her.
That's the big problem.
Why can't adults talk about sex? This is only a story about the depredations of alcohol... but why? Why must conversation be so boring that an interesting question draws "serious daggers"?
George W. Bush had a drinking problem that he solved -- by not drinking.
Now he's sober, over 50 and, apparently, able to talk about sex and drinking with insight and humor. Not boring. Good for him.
Ten minutes to the Illinois/Michigan game.
Better hurry up!
Illinois going for its third straight over the Wolverines.
Muck Fichigan! GO ILLINI!
Speaking of drinking jokes...
John Kerry (who served in Viet Nam) walks into a bar. The bartender looks up and says "Hey Senator, why the long face?"
Hand me a Kleenex.
Was it good for you, too?
Because it's like everything else to do with sex, if it's not consensual then it's wrong.
Which raises another issue, in addition to the sexual revolutionaries shouting things like "right to privacy, keep out of our bedroom" --
When someone tries to ask such a personal sexual question, that same revolutionary crowd might start shouting "Sexual harassment! Hostile work (etc.) environment! Stalker, stalker!"
The lawyers have told everyone not to talk that why else they might get sued.
You just don't do that when your parents are there!
As any wife can tell you, the most serious reason why this question was not a good idea is that the person to whom it was directed is described as a "beautiful woman".
Why can't adults talk about sex.
What we really need is less talk and more action.
And by 'we', I mean 'I'.
I see the problem as similar, but likely more extreme, than the problem with asking a couple when they are going to have kids.
After getting a lot of questions on that subject from friends, when we finally had one on the way, I asked a couple whom we were very close to that question, and got reprimanded by my (now) ex later that often the reason that a couple isn't having kids is that one of them has a problem. Is the guy going to admit that he is impotent? Or doesn't have viable or enough sperm? Etc.
I think that sex is the same sort of thing. Some couples have great sex, and others don't. If they aren't, then it may be embarrassing to talk about it. For example, the woman may not like sex, be frigid, etc. Is that something that everyone at the table needs to know about? And if they do have a lot of hot wild sex, do you want all the guys at the table who aren't getting any to be lusting after her?
Compounding this is the age thing. Starting into the 50s, absent hormone replacement, etc., both sexes seem to be less interested and/or able to perform. As you get to your 60s, this is compounded. The women aren't lubricating like they used to and some have thinner, more easily damaged, vaginae, and the men can't get it up as easily. This is a major transition in life for both sexes, and different people go through it at different times, and some much less through hormone replacement, etc. All of a sudden, after being sexually active for 40+ years, something that many of us think is important, starts disappearing from our lives.
I suspect that by 70, much of the transitional problems will have disappeared. Unless the person is obviously on hormone replacement (not only women, but also think of Sylvester Stallone), most of us will no longer be having all that much sex.
Perhaps the daggers were not because the question was about sex, but because he had dared to presume that the lady was over 50...
What is sex like after 50? Pretty good. Mostly like it was at 40, with fewer interruptions from children.
What is sex like after 60? You'd be surprised!
Unsolicited advice to people in their 20s, 30s and 40s: Exercise, stay fit, eat right. It does have a payoff.
What is sex like after 60? You'd be surprised!
Maybe for you, but not for many. And that is the problem. Not that it cannot be good, but rather, that it becomes less good for many as they enter their "golden" years. And, talking about your great sex life in your 60s just reinforces what they no longer have.
p.s. Here, it is just fine. We have Titus talking about his fine loaves, and so a bit of gloating is well accepted.
You just don't do that when your parents are there!
That is also very true. Sex between generations is a bit touchy. I think that many of us know our parents too well to want to know how good their sex lives are. And, we really don't want to know about our kids' sex lives. And so talk about sex when either our parents or our children are present is, to a great extent, contra-indicated.
wv: excel - with a second "L", goes well with sex. Otherwise, a flaky spreadsheet program from Microsoft.
W is just trying to cover it up. Don't be fooled. Laura and especially Barb are a lot more fun than they let on.
Why can't adults talk about sex? This is only a story about the depredations of alcohol... but why?
I think the connection here to alcohol is that this is an example of blurting, not conversation.
It was the sharp introduction of a personal topic, not by way of self-disclosure or seeking consensual participation, but a pointed out-of-blue interrogatory addressed to someone else putting her on the spot to answer from personal experience and practice.
I just looked at this topic again and it said "69 Comments".
"He was hitting on her."
Hard telling, but at least it's safe to say he saw her as a sexual being. I think it's also safe to say that she appreciated that or wouldn't have taken the time to send him that card on his 50th.
...after being sexually active for 40+ years, something that many of us think is important,...
There's most people's problem right there - it's sooo important. Compared to what?
Ever been with someone who's really bad? How much time and effort did they put into becoming attractive enough to lure you into discovering how badly they sucked (pun intended)?
This society's priorities are all wrong:
Sex ain't important - what it's used for is.
MayBee said... He was hitting on her. That's the big problem.
I think that's why the daggers from Laura and Barbara. When a man says something like this to an attractive woman, it translates as "I would like to have sex with you."
Granted, that's what every man thinks when he is in the presence of an attractive woman, but it's gauche to be so overt about it in front of your wife.
Perhaps the woman wasn't married or partnered up. Then the implication is that she's sleeping around.
Kent,
Yes, and then there's "riding bicycles" among the less-tackful euphemisms.
Bender,
"this 'all sex all the time' society of ours has degraded sex to such a point that it is ho-hum, droll, and boring."
TMI, man.
Sounds as if the Gravitas of the Bush family was not so great either. That was undignified to the max. But daddy's wealth and rich friends still bought him the Texas rangers and the Presidency to grow up on. My only worry is why the Bush family keeps seeing their wealthy friends as all that counts.
Quite serious question.
If you were at my dinner table and asked me that, how would you respond to my answer of "None of your fucking business"?
Just because you want to talk about something doesn't mean others want to (or should) as well. And, just because you talk about something doesn't mean it's appropriate.
When we left this morning for the wedding and reception of the daughter of some friends of my wife from work, she got very serious and asked me to please act dignified. That hurt my feelings a little. But no bad subjects were spoken of with the strangers at our table, by me. Bad subjects are politics, religion, and off color remarks. She is right of course. Strangers do not react well to those big three.
Well, I know Obama loves sex because he's screwing the whole country:
Daily Mail (UK): "Probably not since the days of the Pharaohs or the more ludicrous Roman Emperors has a head of state travelled in such pomp and expensive grandeur as the President of the United States of America." - Link
If you don't want the conversation to be boring, start talking about your own sensitive areas and then let other people join in if they want ... because you could be touching on a really painful area for the person. It might be a really happy area as well, but you don't know.
S/he might not be comfortable telling the inquisitive one to "Fuck Off" as I would be. :-)
I was way more blabby about sex in my teens/20s. I find I. just. don't. want. to. know. about married people's sex lives for the most part. It's like hearing about your parents when you're a kid, even though I am the parental age now.
I know what I like, and I really don't want to know what you like or how it's going. It's what it reveals rather than the act that can unsettle me. I really don't want to know that much about you, thanks. I have to really really like you a lot, or it's just luck of the draw that there's a compatibility.
Someone like Titus is different. He's a showman.
@MayBee
That was my take too.
One evening at a dinner party a tipsy husband seated next to me leaned in and drooled "So you wanna fuck, or what?" His wife and my husband were seated across the table and an uncomfortable few minutes followed as he was lead to their car.
I don't know who was most appalled, me, his wife or our hosts and this was very laid back group of Libs, not stuffy WASPs.
My husband still laughs about the look on my face.
Shouting Thomas wrote:
Why can't somebody make a porn movie with a good plot so that both men and women can enjoy it and get off?"
It's been tried. The "Devil in Miss Jones" is probably the triumphant entry in this category. I heartily recommend it.
Not that I've actually watched porn (ahem) but aren't the dramatic bits the ones that you fast forward past to get to the sex? Very few dramatic scenes in porn are dramatic enough or acted well enough to count as anything but exposition to the next sex scene. I guess Devil In ms. Jones could qualify as a plot, but even there I'd imagine the acting sucked, the effects sucked the story sucked and the actors and actresses sucked (n the oral scenes).Most guys attention spans wouldn't allow for dramatic scenes to get in the way of their sex scenes, so even if there were such a movie I doubt guys watched it in full.
Daily Mail (UK): "Probably not since the days of the Pharaohs or the more ludicrous Roman Emperors has a head of state travelled in such pomp and expensive grandeur as the President of the United States of America.
The real reason the right is screaming 200 million! Cocounts!
MUMBAI: US President Barack Obama is announcing trade deals worth $10 billion with India that are expected to create 54,000 US jobs.
Link
Dammit. Jobs! UUUUGGGH
Dammit. Jobs! UUUUGGGH
I see garage has chosen this site on which to test out the proposed new campaign slogan for Obama/Biden '12.
Please make certain to leave appropriate feedback.
"Bad subjects are politics, religion, and off color remarks. Strangers do not react well to those big three."
Then never consider me a "stranger" if I am in your company, because I enjoy talking about all three, just like most other commenters at Althouse.
Well, except for today, apparently...
54,000 new jobs? How can we lie about this?
"1 billion per coconut removed! it's true! It's on the internet!"
Hunt on for man on the run with mother's corpse
Because some people really, REALLY want to know what sex after 50 is like.
Well W has admitted that back in the day he had a bit of a drinking problem. But even then he put it to use in the service of his country. President Reagan recognized that and W was instrumental in the end of the Cold War when he famously said “Mr. Gorbachev tear down these pants.”
Or maybe it was Laura. I forget.
Furthermore, why can't men who are married talk to women in general without having their mothers and wifes get pissed at them about it.
"traditionalguy said...
When we left this morning for the wedding and reception of the daughter of some friends of my wife from work, she got very serious and asked me to please act dignified."
Jeeez what are complaining about. My wife threatens to beat me within and inch of my life if I act the way I normally do at a family wedding. She is always saying "Censor yourself!!!!!!!"
Trooper...My wife is always respectful while she warns me about possible sudden death.
Penny...That is a collateral benefit of commenting at Althouse...we can beat those three subjects until our arms are too tired to hold them up any longer. Plus there are those beautiful photos and art appreciation days. Do you ever listen to NPR and have to act like you like it? That is a real test of patience, a virtue that the KJV translates as "long suffering".
Very few dramatic scenes in porn are dramatic enough or acted well enough to count as anything but exposition to the next sex scene. I guess Devil In ms. Jones could qualify as a plot, but even there I'd imagine the acting sucked, the effects sucked the story sucked and the actors and actresses sucked (n the oral scenes).
Well, in most movies you would be correct.
But, in this one, the entire cast was coked out and blanketed in evil. The Dark Brothers were in the midst of sibling rivalry about to explode in murder.
The plot is pretty simple. Catholic girl gets stood up on her wedding day. In revenge she goes out to pick up a guy at the bar. While he's banging her, he smacks her head against the bedboard, killing her and sending her straight to hell.
And, it's there that the fun begins.
The best actor in the film is a black guy who plays the devil as the world's most insane (pardon me) nigger Super Fly.
And, the monologue highlight: After a particularly gruesome gangbang in Hell, little Miss Jones says:
"You know, I think I'm beginning to like it here."
A classic!
And, one more word.
The pissed off, angry and evil atmospherics of The Devil in Miss Jones must be seen to be believed.
The cast and crew really conjured up the devil.
wv: swinator. Unbelievable, right! Yes, it's a piggie-fied classic.
The best actor in the film is a black guy who plays the devil as the world's most insane (pardon me) nigger Super Fly.
A heavily made-up Paul Lynde, in the role of a lifetime. I got chills.
Althouse,
Adults can talk about sex all day long if they want. In fact, some people talk about nothing but sex.
The problem is that, by about age 25, most adults learn that other people's sex lives are boring, unintentionally funny, kind of sad, disturbing, or some combination thereof. More importantly, they discover that their own sex lives are no different.
Maybe it's a class thing or a generational thing, but despite the Boomer fascination with sex, it's just not all that interesting of a topic.
"Why can't adults talk about sex?"
Perhaps the issue is more 'at dinner, among some company you know very well and others you don't'.
Maybe it's a class thing or a generational thing, but despite the Boomer fascination with sex, it's just not all that interesting of a topic.
This plus what I said earlier. If the most interesting thing about a person is who they sleep with or how they do it, that person isn't very interesting.
Ann, good manners dictates you do not bring up sex talk at your parent's dinner party with one of their guests. Come on.
Now among friends, sure. Even then you better make sure you are not embarassing the person you raise it to. The faux pas was all about when he did it.
Somefeller,
Oh, I agree completely with what you said earlier! The question was rude and out of place.
I really wanted to hone in on what Althouse's implication that sex is inherently more interesting than whatever the Bush family and their guest(s) may have been talking about at the time!
Assuming that rudeness wasn't the issue, I find it difficult imagining any answer to Bush's question that would promote an interesting discussion.
And, of course, when people do talk freely about sex, they invariably end up learning things about people that they can't unlearn.
Which is sometimes disconcerting.
Oh, I agree completely with what you said earlier! The question was rude and out of place.
I realize that. And you amplified the point well by bringing up your additional points.
I really wanted to hone in on what Althouse's implication that sex is inherently more interesting than whatever the Bush family and their guest(s) may have been talking about at the time!
Agreed. One would think that family chatter around the Bush table could bring up some really interesting topics, of genuine historical and cultural interest. They have been ringside for or participants in some interesting events over a few generations now. Sex talk, aside from being vulgar in this context, is also boring because literally anyone over a certain age can engage in it.
He was hitting on her.
That's the big problem.
MayBee is right. Also: duh.
A drunk guy asks you how your sex life is going... how else are you going to take that?
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