The cutoff level would be an income of four times the federal poverty level. For one person, that’s about $44,000 a year. For a family of four, the comparable figure is about $88,000.So, if you make $88,000 and have a family of 4, you may have to fork out $8,800 a year ($733 a month).
Subsidies would be figured on a sliding scale, with those who make less getting a bigger boost and those nearer the top getting a smaller one.
The formula is pretty complicated. Basically, though, people who make three or four times the poverty level would get enough federal money so that they would not have to pay more than about 10 percent of their income for a decent health insurance package.
People who make less would have to pay a smaller slice of their income for coverage. For instance, individuals who make about $14,000, and four-person families with incomes of about $29,000, would not have to pay more than 3 to 4 percent of their incomes for insurance.If you make only $29,000 and have a family of 4, you are already on a terribly tight budget, and yet you will be required, perhaps, to spend $1,160 a year. I'd really like to see a chart that shows how much people are going to need to pay.
The federal subsidy would go straight to the insurer. It would look like a discount on the policy to the customer.I think there's going to be a sliding scale of freaking out over the new requirements. Just understanding them and absorbing what is required will be stressful. And then you have to come up with the money, or face the penalty:
If you ignore this mandate and don’t get health insurance, you’ll have to pay a tax penalty to the federal government, beginning in 2014. This fine starts fairly small, but by the time it is fully phased in, in 2016, it is substantial.Well, you could always join the right religion.
An insurance-less person would have to pony up whichever is greater: $695 for each uninsured family member, up to a maximum of $2,085; or 2.5 percent of household income.
There are exceptions. Certain people with religious objections would not have to get health insurance. Nor would American Indians, illegal immigrants, or people in prison.
Sorry, but I can't help thinking that millions of people are going to freak out.
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64 comments:
It just means that the Dems. will lower the threshold in the future.
I do think a lot of people think this will be free. A rude awakening.
Who will get subsidized? Why, smart people will.
Smart people know that the Senate included language in the bill preventing the IRS from being able to collect penalties from people who refuse to participate in the shell game.
The IRS can levy a fine on you if you are a Jew (but not if you are a Muslim) but the fine will not grow with interest (like all other non-paid IRS obligations are) and the IRS cannot use its lien powers to collect the "fine."
So, smart people just won't buy insurance at all until they need it.
The small fine for not playing along with the charade isn't meaningful, can't be collected, and represents an interest-free loan from the government. Why wouldn't smart people take this loan? Tomorrow's dollars will be inflated and worth less to pay the fine with later if that ever becomes necessary.
If you ever get sick, the law now says that you can purchase insurance from any company and they have to take you even with your pre-existing condition and they cannot charge you extra because you are already sick.
So, smart people will do exactly that.
Lots of dumbass people in some communities will wait in line at government offices to receive their "subsidy."
But not smart people.
Muslims don't believe in insurance--Obama looks after his own.
Mass wave of conversions coming.
The reaction would be calmer if it was just called an income tax surcharge, because people already see that as a deadweight loss. They don't expect anything back for it.
2.5% of income then just raises your rate a bit.
Except the bottom half of income earners perhaps are not used to the income tax.
I pay $26 a month and make too much money to get a subsidy as a single person.
My health costs are going to skyrocket if they make me pay ten percent of my income.
The health care tithe.
"Certain people with religious objections would not have to get health insurance."
That's quite disingenuous phrasing, isn't it? Which "certain people" are not to be taxed?
The correct answer is: Muslims.
Muslims are not required to purchase any form of insurance because it is against their faith. (There are other faiths such as Amish who also won't be required to pay, but these are very small in number).
So, only Jews (and Christians) will be forced to pay "The Jew Tax" known as "Health Care Reform."
Barack Hussein Obama hates the Jews and now he has found a way to tax them just because they are Jews. That Christians are collateral damage is unfortunate, but make no mistake about it, Barack Obama hates the Jews.
Just look at how he treats Bebe.
As with anything Democrat Party-related you have to pay careful attention to what they do and ignore what they say. They act like they hate Israel and the Jews. And health care reform is just part of the proof.
So Native Americans, illegal immigrants, and prisoners won't have to buy health insurance.
They just get treatment scot free.
I need to register for a tribe.
Or commit an incarceration worthy crime.
LOL
"My health costs are going to skyrocket if they make me pay ten percent of my income."
Not if you become a Muslim.
If you become a Muslim, you don't have to pay the tax.
They don't call him Barack Hussein Obama for nothing.
NewHam: so is this the dhimmitude?
The dhimmi tax?
How will Muslims get health care without insurance?
Millions of Muslims without health insurance! Thousands will die every year!
/snark
If you are smart person, you will become a really bad non-praying Muslim, until such time as you get sick.
On that day, you will see the light and become a Christian, or a Jew.
The government will be unable to fine you, and if you ever get sick the insurance companies have to cover you.
It's quite simple, really.
Just become a "Muslim."
I've already changed my name to New "Hussein" Ham.
They tried to get around the constitutional problem by pretending this is a tax function with the IRS as the enforcer; but no one is exempted from taxes due to religion or Native American status or incarceration.
Ooooops! It's not a tax!
Hence, unconstitutional.
The gummint can't force its citizens to buy a product or service.
"The dhimmi tax?"
Exactly.
They don't call him Hussein for nothing, dear.
(donning a head scarf)
Hello, my name is kentuckyhusseinliz
I still believe in Issa and love Miryam.
"Except the bottom half of income earners perhaps are not used to the income tax."
The bottom half of income earners do not pay income tax. In fact, thanks to the Earned Income Tax Credit, the bottom half of income earners annually receive a check from you.
And they thank you for handing over your money at gunpoint!
Why not get the Jews to pay for the whole fucking thing.
AmishS
The thing is a huge power/money grab.
It layers on top of our already unfair punitive tax system.
If the working poor think they are getting "Christmas", they are in for a shock.
My fear is that much of money confiscated will funnel to democrat coffers.
The "subsidies" are a complete scam, and will not come close to making up the difference between our existing catastrophic coverage and what's required under this particular scheme.
As it is, our premium jumped 28% this year as the direct result of a new federal mandate that medical insurance cover both in-patient and out-patient "mental health services," along with addiction spas and the like.
With the latest government intervention requiring guaranteed issue (ignore pre-existing conditions) our premium will soon vault to the level prevailing for the same policy in an adjacent state which already has a guaranteed issue mandate. Oops, another 50% on top of what is now 128%.
Then they remove insurance companies' ability to formulate a premium based on lifestyle -- smoking, blood pressure, height-appropriate weight, and so on. The non-smoker policy alone is 40% cheaper than for smokers, so on the basis of 25% smoking population, there's another 8% on top of 128+64=192%-->207% of last year's premium.
The primary purpose of this legislation is to make private insurance premiums completely untenable.
I know, right? If the Social Security lockbox is full of IOU's from all the raiding of those collected monies, what is stopping that from happening with the dhimmi tax?
People think they have an individual account with a balance, like a bank account, with their Social Security contributions--and they don't.
What if we let the feds collect the dhimmi tax for four years, and when the programs roll out, four years hence, there's no money accumulated? It's all been spent elsewhere on Dhimmicrat vote buying stimulus crap?
"It's going to be like Christmas." Yeah, and you have to buy the presents, cook the turkey, and do the dishes afterward.
Agree w/ Bart Hall.
Industry people think the health insurance companies will last maybe another 2 or 3 years max. They are looking for work in other industries.
"My fear is that much of money confiscated will funnel to democrat coffers."
The Democrats already have at their disposal a $750 billion slush fund known as TARP.
Whenever they want to funnel money to the "right" banks, or the "right" community debt counseling groups, they reach into this fund and grab a billion or two.
Democrats already have an unlimited bank account from which to fund their shell companies and unions.
Almost all of the stimulus has gone to pay off the teachers unions so none of them get laid off (about 78% of the total in stimulus funding went to teachers).
And remember, teachers already make 150% of the mean salary in the United States.
The remainder of the stimulus money went to road and bridge construction - again, funneled into the coffers of the trade unions.
Democrats used to fight the Mafia (remember Kennedy) but then the Mafia murdered Kennedy and the word got out that they can reach out and touch anyone.
So now Democrats are the Mafia.
I thought of a new career: poverty consultant. Counsels people on how to reconfigure their financial status downwards to avoid being screwed by the government.
"Sorry, but I can't help thinking that millions of people are going to freak out."
Ya think? Well, anyone with any sense will, and most already have.
"you could always join the right religion."
Or the Jeremiah Wright religion perhaps? Which is pretty much Islam anyway, at least in its hatred, if nothing else.
I've been thinking for a long time that Obama has plans to destroy America from the inside. I don't particularly think he cares whether it is Islam or socialism that does it the trick.
"I thought of a new career: poverty consultant."
You're late to the party, pal. The Democrats already have poverty consultants. That's what ACORN is.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development funds "housing counselors" which are Democrat Party front groups to which they funnel money down to street level to buy votes.
Here, you can search for one right from the HUD home page.
If you scroll through the list of "official" agencies, you'll see lots of ACORN-type non-profit groups
(Here are the "credit counseling" groups in Massachusetts. Lots of ACORN-type groups here.)
These non-profits are set up for the primary purpose of receiving government grants, and they kick back a portion to Democrat Party political candidates by making campaign contributions. This is the method by which the Democrat Party receives the majority of its funding
Republicans don't have anywhere near this sort of a money laundering operation. It's sad, really, that Republicans can't figure out how Democrats are using the government to fund their political operation.
They're unable to put the pieces together to realize this is all just a huge corrupt RICO organized crime syndicate.
This has always been a lot of smoke and mirrors. As I say, the people who think they'll be sitting on the couch the rest of their lives stuffing HoHos in their mouths and get cared for for free will be in for a rude awakening when they see how FICA goes up, even for them; not to mention when the death panels (Einsatzgruppen?) swing into action.
kentuckyhusseinliz said...
I love it! Don't forget to visit the grave of Issa bin Maryam when you hit Mecca (bring your copy of Sir Richard with you. They'll just love it).
PatCA said...
I thought of a new career: poverty consultant.
I can see those tech school ads on TV now.
Ann, I am not sure where the CSM found the figures they are using, according to this letter to Evan Bayh from the CBO
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10781/11-30-Premiums.pdf
(see page 29) premiums will be much higher.
I am not sure what this will do to us financially or why the Democrats think we can suddenly pay 19% of our income on health insurance. While we make about 95K, and that may seem like a lot to some people, it doesn't go far with three kids in our area.
Here’s a quick guesstimate breakdown of monthly expenses:
29% federal, state local taxes and SS payments ($2300/mo this is probably too low, and will certainly increase)
25% mortgage, insurance and property taxes ($1950/mo, lower than most people at our income level)
12% food ($900 /mo very little eating out, no fancy or organic food, 2 teen boys)
15% auto expense ($475 total for 2 car payments, + 250 insurance + $425 gas/oil and parking, $30 registration and licensing fees, teen boys aren't driving yet, that will add another $250 in insurance costs per son)
6% Utilities ($225 gas and electric, $125 water, $125 phones/cable/internet, not including cell phones)
2% clothing ($30 per person per month, includes shoes, all purchased at discount)
2% ($150/month or $50 per child - school supplies and activity fees; sporting equipment, team fees, (not expensive sports like hockey or travel teams), scouts, clubs. we have already elimated tutors and private music lessons.
1% (15 per person/mo) incidentals, personal care products, entertainment, etc.
19% health insurance under Obamacare ($1591/mo) (currently $541, or under 7%)
This adds up to 111%, and wipes out the ability for us to save or send our kids to college. We don't have government or union jobs so we don't have retirement plans. Because my husband is self-employed our income has decreased due to the economy and we spent our nest egg starting the business, which has taken longer to get going due to economic factors. I always thought we’d get through this with hard work and determination, but this health bill has pulled the rug out from us. I really don't know what we are supposed to do.
I'd sell the house but everyone knows what the housing market looks like. We had always planned to send the kids to college, but now they will take big government loans so the government will get a piece of that too.
This is depressing, many people like us will be very upset when they find out healthcare isn't "free".
The Joint Committee on Taxation says that the mandate is basically unenforceable:
The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.
From page 33 of http://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=3673
"The Joint Committee on Taxation says that the mandate is basically unenforceable ..."
See my comments above regarding how smart people will respond to this, assuming it is not repealed.
However ... let's get something straight: The United States Senate cynically put this language in the bill to tamp down public rage in order to get the bill passed.
Now that the bill is law, it will be amended. That language will get changed on a Friday about two in the morning when nobody in the media is watching.
We already have poverty consultants:
Social workers and human services assistants.
Nothing in this bill is ever going to work out as the people who stacked it together envisioned - if indeed any of it works out at all.
Remember the stimulus program for weatherproofing houses with the Davis-Bacon provision in it? Now scale that up to the full 2733 pages!
The subsidy really only applies if you aren't offered insurance from your employer. The differences are so large that under this plan, you DO NOT want your employer to offer you health insurance. It's cheaper for your boss to pay the government the $2000 fine and let you buy insurance on your own. Employees would save lots of money doing this also. And, as many people have said, you don't even want to have health insurance unless you are sick.
In four years time people will be leaving jobs because they offer health insurance.
"Sorry, but I can't help thinking that millions of people are going to freak out."
You think?
"Muslims don't believe in insurance--Obama looks after his own.
Mass wave of conversions coming."
Omgod... Obama may have just destroyed Islam.
I know there are consultants for those already "poor," but what I propose is a consultant who will advise the middle and upper classes how to spend down to avoid government screwage.
"Muslims don't believe in insurance--Obama looks after his own.
Mass wave of conversions coming."
Question: can you be rejected as a Muslim convert?
I think that all you'd really have to do is buy a Koran and wear a scarf.
The thing about religious conviction is that it exists inside of you so the State can not prove that you don't have that conviction sincerely. The burden to prove otherwise is on the State.
What you might have to do, though, is not have any other insurance that you can possibly get away with not having, so you can show consistency.
Do Muslims actually get out of having car insurance where it is mandated? That seems unlikely. No one is being forced to have the car, after all.
michaele said...
"Muslims don't believe in insurance--Obama looks after his own.
Mass wave of conversions coming."
Question: can you be rejected as a Muslim convert?
The assumption in Islam is that everyone is born a Moslem; those who don't practice have strayed outside the faith, hence the term, infidel. So, no, like those old age insurance policies on some cable channels, you can't be turned down.
Doesn't that make you feel special?
Business opportunity:
Come and join the Church of Joe!
For a mere $100 a year, you can join a religion that believes in two things:
1) Joe speaks for God
2) God told Joe that being forced to buy health insurance violates His eternal laws.
NewHam:
Given the Muslim prohibition regarding pork, you'll have to drop the "Ham" in your name: New Hussein Beef or New Hussein Lamb.
Regarding the subsidies: at first glance, it looks like being laid off from my relatively well-paying law firm job, and being forced to consider near-minimum wage jobs, might not be so bad after all.
Who will get subsidized? Democrats and their special interest groups, of course.
Same pattern that all the Marxists follow.
This will be instructive re how stupid the Left really is. Obama's not the man they voted for, and any fool can see his pattern of breaking agreements he's entered into to when it suits his need.
So they supported this monstrosity, and will be surprised ALL OVER AGAIN when it doesn't perform as promised.
Idiots.
What's with the funding for 16,000 more IRS agents if the mandate fine isn't enforceable?
I guess I won't even have to move to live in a Third World country - it's coming to me.
When I graduated from college and got my first job in the mid-90s, I started at $24,000 a year. I didn't have health insurance because I couldn't afford it. It looks like this plan would have required me to pay around $100/month. I didn't HAVE $100/month back then. I'd have had to pay the $750 yearly fine instead. Probably by putting it on a credit card.
Like Social Security and Medicare, this plan taxes the less fortunate to pay for the benefits of the better-off.
Ok - let's get some documentation on this so we're not running around like a bunch of WorldNetDaily readers.
What is the exact language in the bill about religious exclusions from the mandate? Does it specifically say Amish and Christian Scientists? Does anyone know? If it in fact does include Muslims as well that is a HUGE story. Let's make sure we have it right before we go freeper.
Add to that the furious seniors and soon to be seniors who will face massive cuts in Medicare, especially essential services like MRIs, CT scans, and dialysis.
Pelosi care was historic. She claimed it was as historic is the passing of Medicare. Now it is historic for the Destruction of medicare.
Pelosi lied. Seniors died. That will be the new chant.
If Muslims are excluded isn't there a constitutional issue here? Discrimination against people based on religion? I can't wait for the lawyers to get a hold of this one.
Nobody has a clue how this is all going to work. Including the morons who wrote the trainwreck legislation. So is my 22 year old daughter back on my health insurance? How about my vision and dental? I guess I should call the WH and see if anyone knows.
14 minute audio interview with Paul Ryan U.S. Congressman, Wisconsin 1st District Topic: The True Cost of Health Care Reform
A friend told me today that his daughter, a general practice doctor in downtown Denver, had 20+ plus people show up at her office day before yesterday. No appointments, and more than half had never been patients of hers before. Somehow the word had gotten out that free health care was already in effect, and this was the place to go. They had a lot of trouble persuading the people that nothing had changed.
Speaking of subsidies, surely I can't be the only one pissed that people who ran out and got in over their heads on loans AND FUCKING KNEW IT (and bragged about it) are now getting even more bailouts from the government.
Is it true that Muslims are excluded? I keep hearing it, but haven't seen a real link.
Joe @ 3:30:
No, you are not the only one. My partner and I are financially frugal types which is the only reason why, despite both of us being unemployed, we are not freaking out over money - yet.
We don't have kids and don't plan to - thus no heirs/dependents. Our plan is to rack up the debt as we get older and die with a shitload of unpaid debt. Timing will be crucial, but it will be one big "fuck you" from beyond the grave if carried out wisely.
The bill will impoverish the middle-class. Whatever they had left after the crash in 2008, or managed to build up again since then, will be taken through taxes, fees, premiums or fines. It is a blatant redistribution of wealth.
The wealthy will be able to swallow the new fees and taxes. The middle-classses (lower & upper) will be hit the worst.
Yeah, I think some people are going to be upset. But they are also going to be made more dependent on the the govt.
Obama promised the moon with this bill. When people realize it is not full of free cheese, O and the Dems will have some 'splaining to do.
Ok - I think this is the applicable language:
(5) EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS- In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:
(A) In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian, or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.
Section 5000a is the section that lays out the mandate.
Some more language directly from that section on religion:
‘(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS-
‘(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION- Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.
So - here's one shocking thing - there isn't a Sec. 1402 G. It's not in the bill.
And here's Sec. 1311 (d)(4)(H):
(H) subject to section 1411, grant a certification attesting that, for purposes of the individual responsibility penalty under section 5000A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, an individual is exempt from the individual requirement or from the penalty imposed by such section because--
(i) there is no affordable qualified health plan available through the Exchange, or the individual’s employer, covering the individual; or
(ii) the individual meets the requirements for any other such exemption from the individual responsibility requirement or penalty;
It sounds like it's all up to Sibelius who is exempt and who is not.
The Health care Sharing Ministry language (which I won't post) talks about having to have been created by 1999. What I read yesterday tells me that most Amish belong to these.
What does this say to you?
Thanks very much, Rialby. Things are just going to get more and more interesting, aren't they?
In response to who will get subsidized under the new health care reform Althouse wrote - "Sorry, but I can't help thinking that millions of people are going to freak out."
In an earlier post she referred to the following:
"In Switzerland, where they spend only 11% of GDP on health care, their out-of-pocket expenses equal about 31% of total spending. The difference between 12% and 31% is huge. Once people begin spending substantial sums from their own pockets, they become willing to shop around. Ordinary market incentives begin to operate. A good bill would have encouraged that."
If given the choice, would more people freak out under the Dems plan or under under Economics Nobelist Gary Becker's plan?
Revenant,
It's sad that the young innocents who put Obama in power will be those penalized. Yes, starting out $100 is a lot of money!
It's sad that the young innocents who put Obama in power will be those penalized. Yes, starting out $100 is a lot of money!
Oh, I don't care if people dumb enough to have voted for Obama get bankrupted. I feel sorry for the young folks who are like I was -- i.e., not looking for a handout from the government, just trying to survive on their own.
Knowing how federal law like this gets more and more labyrinthine (in honor of Ann and Meads crossing the Mississippi) as time goes on, how messy do you think a 3000 page law will be in 10 years. Like the tax code, it will be entirely unknowable, if it isn't already. I mean, I know Joe Biden understands it, but us lesser minds are shit out of luck.
So, if you make $88,000 and have a family of 4, you may have to fork out $8,800 a year ($733 a month).
Holy shit!! That ain't saving anybody anything. I cover myself and 3 kids on my work insurance. It cost less than this.
Basically, though, people who make three or four times the poverty level would get enough federal money so that they would not have to pay more than about 10 percent of their income for a decent health insurance package.
So if I'm doing the math right, my medical insurance premium is about to double. (The cost to me will double, that is. Plus cost of an additional "subsidy", indirectly paid via taxes.) Joy.
vw: nooted. We are all about to be nooted by this bill.
So, if you make $88,000 and have a family of 4, you may have to fork out $8,800 a year ($733 a month).
Holy shit!! That ain't saving anybody anything. I cover myself and 3 kids on my work insurance. It cost less than this.
Pretty soon you won't even have that, seeing that it would be cheaper for your employer to cut you off and let you buy insurance on your own.
If anyone can prove the Muslim thing, I'd like to see it. It sounds like a bunch of tinfoil hat stuff to me.
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